Grim Fandango(filfre.net)
filfre.net
Grim Fandango
https://www.filfre.net/2024/11/grim-fandango/
128 comments
There was one particular puzzle involving an elevator that stumped me as a kid. I played the remaster years later and still couldn’t figure it out so I looked up the answer.
Cheating in multiplayer games is obviously indefensible, but I’ve never been above cheating in a single player game. Games are a relaxing outlet for me and if I get frustrated long enough I’ll look up the solution.
That said, I will have one of two reactions upon spoiling a puzzle. I’ll either realize that the answer was right in front of me and I’ll be disappointed I didn’t spend a little more time on it, or I’ll realize I would never have figured it out and be glad I went for help.
The elevator solution was an example of the latter.
Cheating in multiplayer games is obviously indefensible, but I’ve never been above cheating in a single player game. Games are a relaxing outlet for me and if I get frustrated long enough I’ll look up the solution.
That said, I will have one of two reactions upon spoiling a puzzle. I’ll either realize that the answer was right in front of me and I’ll be disappointed I didn’t spend a little more time on it, or I’ll realize I would never have figured it out and be glad I went for help.
The elevator solution was an example of the latter.
Whenever I think of adventure games, it the being stuck aspect of it. When these were released the lack internet help made it frustrating.
Old man Murray (site is still up, though over 20 year since an update) had a good post about adventure game puzzles.
Page 2 and 3 sum up the frustration.
https://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/78.html
Adventure games have gotten better..
Old man Murray (site is still up, though over 20 year since an update) had a good post about adventure game puzzles.
Page 2 and 3 sum up the frustration.
https://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/78.html
Adventure games have gotten better..
> Adventure games have gotten better..
Care to provide examples of which modern adventure games are better?
Care to provide examples of which modern adventure games are better?
Do you know Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders [0]? A Lucas Games video game published in 1988 on C64 and several other platforms.
Puzzles were very difficult at that time in games, possibly intentionally because Lucas Games was selling hint books.
Throughout the whole game you take planes to fly from one location to another, and this eventually depletes your credit card.
At some point you have so little money that the only plane ticket you can afford is a rusty world-war-era biplane that will fly you to some destination through the famous Bermuda Triangle [1]. It's the only option you have so you will eventually take it. But why that? Because when in flight, a tractor beam pulls you up and you find yourself, the biplane and the pilot in an alien space ship, which is how the game justifies the myth of the Bermuda Triangle.
Now if I remember correctly, you will be stuck there and will have to reload a saved game, unless you have a guitar with you. In fact, in the space ship you meet the alien captain who is wearing the classic white Elvis dress. If you earlier purchased a guitar in the shop close to your apartment and now give the guitar as a gift to the alien captain, you will then become friends, and the alien captain will allow you to leave the spaceship with the biplane. Even more, on the ship there is a machine named "lotto-o-matic" or similar, that will predict lotto numbers. So you have to use the machine and collect the receipt. Back to USA, you can use those lotto numbers and win an incredible amount of money that will allow you to take all the planes you need for the remaining of the game.
I remember this particular puzzle as I was stuck for weeks in this limbo without money trying countless useless solutions. I leave in Italy those hint books did not exist and there was no internet. Luckily at some point a local game magazine (Zzap! [2]) answered a letter from another gamer who was asking for a clue.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_McKracken_and_the_Alien_Mi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zzap!64
Puzzles were very difficult at that time in games, possibly intentionally because Lucas Games was selling hint books.
Throughout the whole game you take planes to fly from one location to another, and this eventually depletes your credit card.
At some point you have so little money that the only plane ticket you can afford is a rusty world-war-era biplane that will fly you to some destination through the famous Bermuda Triangle [1]. It's the only option you have so you will eventually take it. But why that? Because when in flight, a tractor beam pulls you up and you find yourself, the biplane and the pilot in an alien space ship, which is how the game justifies the myth of the Bermuda Triangle.
Now if I remember correctly, you will be stuck there and will have to reload a saved game, unless you have a guitar with you. In fact, in the space ship you meet the alien captain who is wearing the classic white Elvis dress. If you earlier purchased a guitar in the shop close to your apartment and now give the guitar as a gift to the alien captain, you will then become friends, and the alien captain will allow you to leave the spaceship with the biplane. Even more, on the ship there is a machine named "lotto-o-matic" or similar, that will predict lotto numbers. So you have to use the machine and collect the receipt. Back to USA, you can use those lotto numbers and win an incredible amount of money that will allow you to take all the planes you need for the remaining of the game.
I remember this particular puzzle as I was stuck for weeks in this limbo without money trying countless useless solutions. I leave in Italy those hint books did not exist and there was no internet. Luckily at some point a local game magazine (Zzap! [2]) answered a letter from another gamer who was asking for a clue.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_McKracken_and_the_Alien_Mi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zzap!64
The elevator forklift is one of the puzzles that messed me up too! I think it was the interface and really tight timing that made it tough.
As much as I love Jimmy Maher's articles, he has a certain bias against any adventure game that's not streamlined. So, he levels similar criticisms against pretty much every Sierra games, Full Throttle and pretty much any adventure game that is not polished to the level of Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle.
He's not completely wrong and the tendency of adventure games to sometimes veer into puzzles that are more moon logic based did I think contribute to the fall of the genre but I do think that he overemphasizes those faults and has a tendency to describe puzzles that are merely hard as impossible to figure out.
Also, I disagree with his criticism of the interface, as a kid it definitely didn't bother me, if anything I find it less frustrating than the amount of pixel hunt in some adventure games.
He's not completely wrong and the tendency of adventure games to sometimes veer into puzzles that are more moon logic based did I think contribute to the fall of the genre but I do think that he overemphasizes those faults and has a tendency to describe puzzles that are merely hard as impossible to figure out.
Also, I disagree with his criticism of the interface, as a kid it definitely didn't bother me, if anything I find it less frustrating than the amount of pixel hunt in some adventure games.
Reminds me of him reviewing Star Control II, which he also seemed to overly criticise, he did however make a legitimate point that the game mechanic of Kohr-Ah only slowly annihilating the galaxy meant that you may have actually already reached a point where winning becomes impossible, but you may not realise it until quite a long time later.
Although I generally remember 90s games being somewhat brutally unforgiving, the lesson they would teach most thoroughly is to save often.
Although I generally remember 90s games being somewhat brutally unforgiving, the lesson they would teach most thoroughly is to save often.
But that's part of the strength of the game! The game world is "alive." Yeah you can fail to win, because you're explicitly told that there is a struggle for control of the galaxy going on!
I don't like how some of these reviewers feel like failure = bad. It's sheer laziness or frustration.
I don't like how some of these reviewers feel like failure = bad. It's sheer laziness or frustration.
I remember watching my teenage cousin play it as a young child and being really drawn in, then when he let me play I remember getting frustrated because I had no idea what to do, it ended up being more fun watching him play
That doesn't mean too much though, most games don't intend for you to start playing somewhere in the middle. Usually mechanics are introduced incremtally and difficulty of the problems to solve is ramped up while you have a chance to hone your skills. E.g. what may seem as moon logic on its own may actually be very logical in the weird world thhat the game has introduced you to by then.
My only experience with the game is watching a YouTube playthrough. Great game from that vantage point.
I definitely found the world a bit harder to navigate for solving puzzles than the 2D games but the really horrible puzzles in grim fandango were the time based ones that the engine could do but not remotely well. There was one in particular with a wheelbarrow that was fairly easy to figure out but an insane pain to coordinate with the game's controls on our PC
I never liked Grim Fandango despite recognizing its importance. I think it's too weird in a bad way. For me, it lacks the optimistic fantasy of LucasArts previous entries and is just too, well, Grim. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece like, for instance, Monkey Island 2.
It’s a film noir coded game. It does nail that dark aspect in many scenes and does it masterfully. I recently replayed it and it was remarkable how great it still is after decades of gameplay evolution.
Are you implying that a masterpiece can only be upbeat and positive?
I think one understated problem Grim Fandango had is that it's too adult.
Today "adult" often means "there's sex and/or gore", but the content is still simple and juvenile. But Grim Fandango isn't like that, it's just full of themes that probably confused the heck out of almost every kid that tried to play it.
Like the very first chapter throws you right into office politics. You deal with stealing a job from another salesman, sabotage a pneumatic tube messaging system, and sneak into your boss' office.
It all makes perfect sense for adults familiar with office work and all the movies it references. But I recall I tried it when I was maybe 14 and I couldn't make head nor tails of it. I didn't even realize the pneumatic tubes were actually a thing.
Things like Monkey Island and even Full Throttle are far more accessible.
Today "adult" often means "there's sex and/or gore", but the content is still simple and juvenile. But Grim Fandango isn't like that, it's just full of themes that probably confused the heck out of almost every kid that tried to play it.
Like the very first chapter throws you right into office politics. You deal with stealing a job from another salesman, sabotage a pneumatic tube messaging system, and sneak into your boss' office.
It all makes perfect sense for adults familiar with office work and all the movies it references. But I recall I tried it when I was maybe 14 and I couldn't make head nor tails of it. I didn't even realize the pneumatic tubes were actually a thing.
Things like Monkey Island and even Full Throttle are far more accessible.
Here's the thing - I remember playing it as a kid and so many things, arguably most of it, went way over my head: the whole travel agent thing and getting ahead in the office, dia de los muertos, the references to noir, the weird but gorgeous mexican art deco combo, I knew nothing about any of it. But I still loved every second of it. It made the world feel very rich and real even if I didn't fully get it, in a way that other games around the time just were not.
Also this is not too dissimilar to how adult life that surrounds every child is to a child. You're sort of used to living in a world that has workings beyond your comprehension and just going along with it. I didn't get what exactly was going on but I did understand /something/ was.
I'm listening to a review of The Great Mouse Detective (1986) which has a similar ethos, as did other content targeting young people from that era. Also I recall picking up books as a kid that were certainly not meant for children and adults back then didn't even blink, and I think it stoked my curiosity and interests and pushed the boundaries of my understanding, as well as prepared me for growing up. I don't think I ended up being a worse person or being traumatized in any way. Part of me wonders if kids' content being much more sanitized these days is a mistake.
Also this is not too dissimilar to how adult life that surrounds every child is to a child. You're sort of used to living in a world that has workings beyond your comprehension and just going along with it. I didn't get what exactly was going on but I did understand /something/ was.
I'm listening to a review of The Great Mouse Detective (1986) which has a similar ethos, as did other content targeting young people from that era. Also I recall picking up books as a kid that were certainly not meant for children and adults back then didn't even blink, and I think it stoked my curiosity and interests and pushed the boundaries of my understanding, as well as prepared me for growing up. I don't think I ended up being a worse person or being traumatized in any way. Part of me wonders if kids' content being much more sanitized these days is a mistake.
I also played it as a kid and vividly remember that plot about a secret political revolution feeling so cool and new to me. I had never encountered anything like it before.I remember 'Viva la revolución!' becoming a catchphrase for me and a friend at that time.
The sense of sneaking into an adult world, even a fantasy one, might be what made the game feel so special to me.
The sense of sneaking into an adult world, even a fantasy one, might be what made the game feel so special to me.
> The sense of sneaking into an adult world, even a fantasy one, might be what made the game feel so special to me
Brilliant observation that never occurred to me. Around that age being allowed to sit with and listen in on adults having normal adult conversations - being one of them - felt special.
Brilliant observation that never occurred to me. Around that age being allowed to sit with and listen in on adults having normal adult conversations - being one of them - felt special.
I think that was part of the fascination of PC:s as a kid. Police Quest or Civilization and so on. It was this kind of adult world that you knew little of and were exploring on your own, or with your friends. The games were not holding your hand. It often was game over. But you could try again. Also, your parents were never involved in any way (except financing the thing). The audience of PC games was different than console games. They expected more from the player. Sometimes it was frustrating, but often times I think one learned something. Also one had to use the dictionary sometimes. There were also less other things competing for their attention so kids had more persistence...
This is bang on. Having a pc back in the day was like having a problem solving simulator for me.
> I'm listening to a review of The Great Mouse Detective (1986) which has a similar ethos, as did other content targeting young people from that era.
You bring up a great point, I do feel sometimes that children media in the 80s didn't completely try to dumb down complexities of adult life even when targeting children. While there are exceptions, it does feel less true nowadays when looking at modern media. The problem I feel is that at the same time as we sanitize children' content more than we used too, children have more access to unfiltered content through often poorly secured devices.
As for Grim Fandango, I played it around 15 and while, yes there were elements that flew above my head. I still remember it as an amazing experience and my first introduction to the film noir genre (shortly after that was reinforced by playing Under a Killing Moon given to me by a friend of mine)
You bring up a great point, I do feel sometimes that children media in the 80s didn't completely try to dumb down complexities of adult life even when targeting children. While there are exceptions, it does feel less true nowadays when looking at modern media. The problem I feel is that at the same time as we sanitize children' content more than we used too, children have more access to unfiltered content through often poorly secured devices.
As for Grim Fandango, I played it around 15 and while, yes there were elements that flew above my head. I still remember it as an amazing experience and my first introduction to the film noir genre (shortly after that was reinforced by playing Under a Killing Moon given to me by a friend of mine)
Yes, we do a grave disservice to all children when we assume they can't handle reality.
You are correct! The user above you has a strange opinion about what media kids should consume.
Same experience here. I loved The Great Mouse Detective, at age 8. Not much later I read The Dark Knight in a translated trade paperback, and it really tickled my little mind. There was a trend of having comic adaptations of movies back then, so I also read and loved the License to Kill comic and was disappointed when Terminator 2 omitted some scenes in the movie -- until the Director's Cut came out.
I was certainly not traumatized (apart from the week of nightmares after seeing Alien one night on TV at age 12). Because of this, I had no arguments when I learned my 11 and 13 year old kids' mom and their stepdad had secured tickets for us to go see Deadpool & Wolverine when I was visiting last time.
Kids understand more than one may think, depending on how much "real life" they assimilate through culture (and parental guidance), I believe.
I was certainly not traumatized (apart from the week of nightmares after seeing Alien one night on TV at age 12). Because of this, I had no arguments when I learned my 11 and 13 year old kids' mom and their stepdad had secured tickets for us to go see Deadpool & Wolverine when I was visiting last time.
Kids understand more than one may think, depending on how much "real life" they assimilate through culture (and parental guidance), I believe.
> Today "adult" often means "there's sex and/or gore", but the content is still simple and juvenile.
That's indeed an unfortunate fact. In fact, most "adult" stuff is actually for teens or young adults. Teens love sex and gore, they want to be edgy, they want to prove they are not children anymore. Actual adults, the kind with jobs and families, are usually passed that. They may still enjoy their sex and gore, but it is just one theme like another.
I think a good way to make a difference between "teen adult" and "actual adult" is to look at the age and environment of the protagonists. Is the main character a teenager or young adult? Does it involve a school of some kind? Then it is probably for teens. Is the main character middle aged? Does it involve work, especially office work? Are there parents among the protagonists? Then it is probably for adults. Sex and violence are secondary.
That's indeed an unfortunate fact. In fact, most "adult" stuff is actually for teens or young adults. Teens love sex and gore, they want to be edgy, they want to prove they are not children anymore. Actual adults, the kind with jobs and families, are usually passed that. They may still enjoy their sex and gore, but it is just one theme like another.
I think a good way to make a difference between "teen adult" and "actual adult" is to look at the age and environment of the protagonists. Is the main character a teenager or young adult? Does it involve a school of some kind? Then it is probably for teens. Is the main character middle aged? Does it involve work, especially office work? Are there parents among the protagonists? Then it is probably for adults. Sex and violence are secondary.
Look, that is also a twisted perspective.
"Adult" = "involving maturity". It is not the topic, it is how it is processed - with developed vs juvenile abilities.
And "adult" is not a janus word, representing both the mature trait and its lack thereof: the second is just given by severe misunderstandings of maturity because of deficiency or twisted incentive. The same works for other words, such as "art".
"Adult" = "involving maturity". It is not the topic, it is how it is processed - with developed vs juvenile abilities.
And "adult" is not a janus word, representing both the mature trait and its lack thereof: the second is just given by severe misunderstandings of maturity because of deficiency or twisted incentive. The same works for other words, such as "art".
That's a really interesting perspective. I grew up around when adventure games were popular, and I learned a lot about the grown-up world (and in fact, American world) through adventure games.
Sam and Max had so much Americana that, playing as a non-American, got me into the deep cuts of American culture. I think a lot of it was contextual. I didn't get all the references at first (e.g. who's John Muir for instance), but the context made it possible for me to figure it out.
Sam and Max had so much Americana that, playing as a non-American, got me into the deep cuts of American culture. I think a lot of it was contextual. I didn't get all the references at first (e.g. who's John Muir for instance), but the context made it possible for me to figure it out.
I got completely stuck in the Beavis and Butthead adventure game when one of the voice acted characters told me to get a "vee-hickul". As a teenager sitting at my family PC in London, I had no idea what the hell the Texan (?) was saying. Only several years later would I figure it out.
The only other thing I remember from that game is the hock-a-loogie minigame, which I mastered. I wonder if my parents had any idea what I was up to on the computer?
The only other thing I remember from that game is the hock-a-loogie minigame, which I mastered. I wonder if my parents had any idea what I was up to on the computer?
Reading your comment I had no memory of ever playing that game, until I remembered mastering the hock-a-loogie minigame. Thanks (I guess?) for the memory!
Anecdote: the word ‘vehicle’ is referenced aty day job a lot. I had a PM who always, always said ‘vee-hickle’ and I honestly always thought he was full of shit.
On day when he was really mad about $(thing I predicted) he just comes out and says ‘vehicle’ like it’s spelled.
I don’t remember feeling smug or annoyed, mostly just kind of bummed at the farce.
On day when he was really mad about $(thing I predicted) he just comes out and says ‘vehicle’ like it’s spelled.
I don’t remember feeling smug or annoyed, mostly just kind of bummed at the farce.
> he just comes out and says ‘vehicle’ like it’s spelled
What do you mean by this?
In what what is "ve hicle" not pronouncing it as it's spelled but "ve icle" is? Isn't the one including an h more faithful?
What do you mean by this?
In what what is "ve hicle" not pronouncing it as it's spelled but "ve icle" is? Isn't the one including an h more faithful?
I'm a non-native speaker I remember I couldn't figure out how to pronounce "vehicle" just from how it's spelled. It's not like I pronounced it wrong (as is often the case with other words), I just couldn't figure out how to pronounce it at all until I looked it up.
Edit: I guess my point is that "as it's spelled" may be non obvious in case of vehicle.
Edit: I guess my point is that "as it's spelled" may be non obvious in case of vehicle.
That's partially my point too: pronouncing something "as it's spelled" is meaningless in English - most of the time there's more than one "obvious" pronunciation. And the right one could be a less obvious one.
I insist on calling Roblox “rob-l-ox” when talking to my kids. It’s a dumb joke, but it also emphasises to them that spelling is a guide and not always a useful one.
> the right one
One of the many right ones.
One of the many right ones.
I meant he pronounced it two different ways when he was too angry to fake it. Was that not apparent in the post, or were you just being a prick?
Are you aware that both pronunciations are correct?
'Cause boy are you going to be surprised when you find out about "accents".
'Cause boy are you going to be surprised when you find out about "accents".
I learned "vee-hickle" from the TV show M.A.S.H
> As a teenager sitting at my family PC in London, I had no idea what the hell the Texan (?) was saying. Only several years later would I figure it out.
I recommend King of the Hill for more of that. The show aged well, very thick americana that is genuinely funny and somewhat insightful. The more “adult” I became, the more hilarious and somewhat “deep” I started finding all their slice of life premises.
There is even one character who speaks so fast and with such thick texan accent (Boomhauer), it is almost impossible to understand him half the time.
One interestint part about it, the show was created and written by Mike Judge, who (among a few other legendary shows) also did Silicon Valley (from mid 2010s).
I recommend King of the Hill for more of that. The show aged well, very thick americana that is genuinely funny and somewhat insightful. The more “adult” I became, the more hilarious and somewhat “deep” I started finding all their slice of life premises.
There is even one character who speaks so fast and with such thick texan accent (Boomhauer), it is almost impossible to understand him half the time.
One interestint part about it, the show was created and written by Mike Judge, who (among a few other legendary shows) also did Silicon Valley (from mid 2010s).
Day of the Tentacle is also very American, in both style and content. I'm glad I didn't play it as a child because I wouldn't have understood or appreciated it, even though I knew it existed and I played Maniac Mansion. Day of the Tentacle was completely different than what I imagined and much better.
DOTT was great and yes also lots of American references like the George Washington story and the Pony Express.
But in Asia we were immersed enough in American culture through books and Saturday morning cartoons that it didn’t feel that foreign.
But in Asia we were immersed enough in American culture through books and Saturday morning cartoons that it didn’t feel that foreign.
This is a great assessment that I never realized until you said it. There are so many games from that era that I played that fit that mold. I was playing Leisure Suit Larry as a 10 year old! I can’t imagine parents these days letting their kids play that at all!
My parents couldn't understand enough English to really get why I shouldn't be playing Larry (almost all the screens are just fine) and I was too young to understand the actual theme. Perfect combination...
Kind of like Police Quest 1 too. Although it did teach me to type "use handcuffs" fast enough. Also the spelling of "briefcase" and other longer words.
Kind of like Police Quest 1 too. Although it did teach me to type "use handcuffs" fast enough. Also the spelling of "briefcase" and other longer words.
Police quest was just way too tough for the foreigner unused to American procedures. "Administer sobriety test" is not the easiest of commands without a very broad vocabulary.
I don't know. My friends and I growing up in Asia played Police Quest I as 8 year olds.
We learned about the Miranda rights, and the PR-24 nightstick. I remember the sobriety test part. We didn't know what a "field sobriety test" was exactly, but we knew it was something to do with drunk drivers. Somehow we managed to finish the game.
I think most people can pick up a lot of clues from context alone.
We learned about the Miranda rights, and the PR-24 nightstick. I remember the sobriety test part. We didn't know what a "field sobriety test" was exactly, but we knew it was something to do with drunk drivers. Somehow we managed to finish the game.
I think most people can pick up a lot of clues from context alone.
You finished it as an 8yo? Congrats! It's a serious achievement.
In many cases lazy "single mothers" let kids use TicTok and SnapChat in lieu of a baby sitter or actually spending time with their own children these days.
The things my kids have seen and knew before 6 years old was 1,000 times worse than anything in Leisure Suit Larry. Our daughter was repeating racial and sexual slurs she learned in the cheap "after-school" shes forced to attend.
American parents or society doesn't care about their kids at all in general (did we ever?) and growing up in this broken society is far more mentally damaging for kids than 20-30 years ago.
The things my kids have seen and knew before 6 years old was 1,000 times worse than anything in Leisure Suit Larry. Our daughter was repeating racial and sexual slurs she learned in the cheap "after-school" shes forced to attend.
American parents or society doesn't care about their kids at all in general (did we ever?) and growing up in this broken society is far more mentally damaging for kids than 20-30 years ago.
Why is "single mothers" in quotes? I'm also confused because you generalize against single mothers for being lazy but then describe how your own parenting style is failing to meet your child's needs.
"Lazy single moms". Nice.
I'm about the same age but personally I had the opposite experience. For me it was refreshing to play something more mature, more 'intellectual', even if I'm sure a lot of the jokes washed over me.
I agree about the accessibility, but Full Throttle is by far my least favorite lucasarts graphical adventure. It's really quite depressing and I deeply dislike the main character.
Maybe it needed a Leisure Suit Larry style age verification:
All politicians are
a. hardworking.
b. honest.
c. ethical.
d. on the public payroll.
Correct answer: d.
"Gone With The Wind" is about
a. outer space.
b. a bank robbery.
c. four hours long.
d. dust.
Correct answer: c.
Two bits is
a. all it takes to consume a "Big Mac."
b. computer talk.
c. about a dollar.
d. the former cost for a shave and a haircut.
Correct answer: d.
Agree that it adult stuff in it but loved that as a kid. I always hated 'kid' content, it felt fake.
I thought this game was up there in my favorites as a kid, don't think me or my younger sibling noticed personally, but the puzzles were really hard for sure. Either way we beat it between each other taking turns I remember. Oh yeah, the tank controls were a little less shit with a gamepad - back when there was a dedicated port for those no less
I also remember these games easier to beat before the internet was so pervasive and these kinds of things were the best way to pass rainy days, we'd draw out notes and maps on paper and all sorts of stuff to beat them - different times now, people's attention is way more scattered
I also remember these games easier to beat before the internet was so pervasive and these kinds of things were the best way to pass rainy days, we'd draw out notes and maps on paper and all sorts of stuff to beat them - different times now, people's attention is way more scattered
We also had fewer games available. I did play a lot of demos and shareware though, thanks to disks from gaming magazines, including GF.
I punted on it almost immediately because I hated the controls.
[deleted]
And most of all, the classic movie Casablanca. I played Grim Fandango as a 15 year old kid and I when I eventually saw Casablanca many years later it was like, this feels familiar, why… oh wait!
That said, like others here as a kid I loved the adult culture references even when I didn’t fully get all of them.
That said, like others here as a kid I loved the adult culture references even when I didn’t fully get all of them.
[deleted]
Jimmy is right about Grim Fandango's gameplay failings, and it's unfortunate, because the game has enough narrative content that they could have just trimmed away a lot of the adventure game puzzles. But visual novels weren't really a thing in the west yet, and in that era there was a lot of emphasis on playtime as a metric that reviews would focus on.
Ironically, one of the most forward-looking approaches to extending playtime without relying on obtuse puzzles had been already pioneered (in a flawed way, certainly) by Sierra, the company which often served as the contrast to LucasArts' reputation for innovation. I'm talking about The Colonel's Bequest, which elaborated the classic adventure game score system into a kind of scavenger hunt, a precursor to achievements in today's games. Grim Fandango would both aesthetically and thematically have been a great fit for that kind of "find the secret scenes" style of replayability.
Ironically, one of the most forward-looking approaches to extending playtime without relying on obtuse puzzles had been already pioneered (in a flawed way, certainly) by Sierra, the company which often served as the contrast to LucasArts' reputation for innovation. I'm talking about The Colonel's Bequest, which elaborated the classic adventure game score system into a kind of scavenger hunt, a precursor to achievements in today's games. Grim Fandango would both aesthetically and thematically have been a great fit for that kind of "find the secret scenes" style of replayability.
Sadly, a bug made the perfect score unreachable without hacking in The Colonel’s Bequest. The 1993 rerelease fixed it I think (I believe the fireflies the Wikipedia article mentions were a symptom.)
The article talks about how Lua "has gone on to become a staple language of modern game development", but could have given more credit to Grim Fandango for that. It was the first game to use Lua and and its success was what put the language on the map when it comes to gamedev.
Its weirdness in indexing arrays notwithstanding, Lua is zero of the most important programming languages ever designed.
Excellent article and absolutely fair points by the author. As a kid I completely fell in love with the characters and ambiance, but got hopelessly stuck in Act 1. In fact, I don't think I ever made it out.
But man, what a great story and what a beautiful style. I always half expected to see Hollywood pick this up and turn it into a movie. Just imagine what the folks at Pixar could do with this (with Tim Schafer as executive producer, of course).
But man, what a great story and what a beautiful style. I always half expected to see Hollywood pick this up and turn it into a movie. Just imagine what the folks at Pixar could do with this (with Tim Schafer as executive producer, of course).
It’s much too eccentric for the Pixar formula. They are family movies first and foremost. Characters need to be understandable and relatable to an eight-year-old.
The Pixar movie with similar themes is 2016’s “Coco”. It’s a fine production, but the themes are much less adult than in Grim Fandango.
The Pixar movie with similar themes is 2016’s “Coco”. It’s a fine production, but the themes are much less adult than in Grim Fandango.
This review is pretty dead (hah) on. I’d been trying to crack Grim, off-and-on, basically ever since it came out; each time I was foiled by the clumsy interface and inscrutable game design. It’s not as player hostile as the old Sierra adventures but it sure comes close.
Finally I caved and watched a longplay on YT, and I have no real regrets. Great game, but that’s probably the best way to play it. Life’s too short.
Finally I caved and watched a longplay on YT, and I have no real regrets. Great game, but that’s probably the best way to play it. Life’s too short.
What a time that was for gaming. Everything felt special. I am afraid to revisit these old greats though, in case seeing them today ruins the illusion of the past.
I play tons of old games these days and if anything it reinforces just how shittier things have become.
I agree with a lot of what he writes, but it's still one of my favorite games. I have faded memories about how frustrated I was running around trying to understand what I was supposed to do next, and strong memories about how the game and its world made me feel.
An excellent game for its time. The remaster is well worth it.
One unfortunate aspect of classic games is how dated mechanics can get. It’s a problem that music or movies don’t really have, besides maybe feeling a bit cliché.
In the case of Grim Fandango, the tank controls are a bit awkward, some puzzles are actually quite difficult and require logic that would only make sense to a point and click adventure gamer from the 90s.
It deserves to be enjoyed and remembered, just because of its sheer style and creativity.
One unfortunate aspect of classic games is how dated mechanics can get. It’s a problem that music or movies don’t really have, besides maybe feeling a bit cliché.
In the case of Grim Fandango, the tank controls are a bit awkward, some puzzles are actually quite difficult and require logic that would only make sense to a point and click adventure gamer from the 90s.
It deserves to be enjoyed and remembered, just because of its sheer style and creativity.
> One unfortunate aspect of classic games is how dated mechanics can get. It’s a problem that music or movies don’t really have, besides maybe feeling a bit cliché.
Silent film would like a word. Er, uh… an intertitle.
Lots of modern viewers find films made before digital editing weird, or even near-unwatchable. The editing isn’t quick enough, shot pacing feels too slow.
Acting styles have changed over the years. It can take some work to be able to enjoy film acting from decades ago.
Older special effects are an acquired taste. I’m thinking of things like pirate movies where the ships are very-obviously models in a tub of water, easy to tell no matter how good the models because the water itself looks “small” in motion.
On the music side, older music will be mono. Tons of old blues legends exist only in scratchy, terrible recordings. Older music sounds different than more recent stuff and could not have sounded like the modern kind, because they could only mix so many tracks without ruining the sound, since each down-mix meant a re-recording and a loss of quality. Newer tracks will almost always use visually-aided editing that includes adjusting vocals by eye rather than ear, which changes the way things sound a lot.
Silent film would like a word. Er, uh… an intertitle.
Lots of modern viewers find films made before digital editing weird, or even near-unwatchable. The editing isn’t quick enough, shot pacing feels too slow.
Acting styles have changed over the years. It can take some work to be able to enjoy film acting from decades ago.
Older special effects are an acquired taste. I’m thinking of things like pirate movies where the ships are very-obviously models in a tub of water, easy to tell no matter how good the models because the water itself looks “small” in motion.
On the music side, older music will be mono. Tons of old blues legends exist only in scratchy, terrible recordings. Older music sounds different than more recent stuff and could not have sounded like the modern kind, because they could only mix so many tracks without ruining the sound, since each down-mix meant a re-recording and a loss of quality. Newer tracks will almost always use visually-aided editing that includes adjusting vocals by eye rather than ear, which changes the way things sound a lot.
Those point-and-click puzzles never felt like anything but time fillers to me. It's interesting to think about the "could have beens" of Western visual novels instead, or at least Telltale-style story games.
That’s sad to read. I encourage you to explore games like Sanitarium, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis.
I think they have a lot to offer story wise. And very little in terms of being blocked by mechanics.
I think they have a lot to offer story wise. And very little in terms of being blocked by mechanics.
It's interesting how much this is still the case.
I was just thinking about it myself when considering the new remake of Silent Hill 2. It's mostly beloved for its story and it spends a lot of time on that, and there's of course a lot of survival-horror combat in between. But beyond that there's another horror game (and just game) staple: lots of puzzles.
The SH2 remake aimed to be very faithful so was always going to have a bunch of puzzles (Silent Hill games typically have had a separate difficulty setting just for the "riddles"). But it's one of those things that you still almost have to have, particularly as a horror for some reason.
Silent Hill 2 is actually a case where even the "obligatory" elements operate pretty well in service of its themes, but plenty of the time games have these things just to have them.
I was just thinking about it myself when considering the new remake of Silent Hill 2. It's mostly beloved for its story and it spends a lot of time on that, and there's of course a lot of survival-horror combat in between. But beyond that there's another horror game (and just game) staple: lots of puzzles.
The SH2 remake aimed to be very faithful so was always going to have a bunch of puzzles (Silent Hill games typically have had a separate difficulty setting just for the "riddles"). But it's one of those things that you still almost have to have, particularly as a horror for some reason.
Silent Hill 2 is actually a case where even the "obligatory" elements operate pretty well in service of its themes, but plenty of the time games have these things just to have them.
Heh. Resident Evil 1 feels like a (well designed) escape room.
The remastered annoyed the hell out of me because it was so buggy. I ragequit the game because there was some point that I had gotten to where one of the characters bugged out in a cutscene and wouldn't move the game forward. I had to reload a save and play about 30 minutes just to get back to the same point. This happened multiple times, too. it's a good game, yes, but the remaster is seriously full of bugs that it's difficult for me to recommend.
Yeah it's one of those games that fits the "thinking about grim fandango vs playing grim fandango" memes.
The characters, the writing, and the story are all so incredibly good. I love that game and I actually think about it a lot lol. But those "puzzles" are just inscrutable.
The characters, the writing, and the story are all so incredibly good. I love that game and I actually think about it a lot lol. But those "puzzles" are just inscrutable.
[deleted]
İncredible game, matched with an equally amazing soundtrack !
The music in this game is just fantastic. I regularly play the soundtrack, brings back warm and cozy memories for me.
that's what drew me in
> Taken as a game rather than the movie it often seems more interested in being
It's interesting how movies today seem to be the "top" art form: there are books, comics, videogames that want to be movies, but never in the other direction. (There are books and games based on movies, but they are clearly secondary.) I wonder if there could be some other art form that would be "above" movies in this sense.
It's interesting how movies today seem to be the "top" art form: there are books, comics, videogames that want to be movies, but never in the other direction. (There are books and games based on movies, but they are clearly secondary.) I wonder if there could be some other art form that would be "above" movies in this sense.
Makes sense considering that movies are usually self-contained art pieces while games these days more of then than not try to upsell you DLC or microtransactions and TV series tend to be so drawn out that hey are cancelled before getting to the point.
Books are the odd one out in that they don't have this problem and as a result are still considered prestigious (probably moreso than movies) but instead suffer from lack of audiovisual communication.
Books are the odd one out in that they don't have this problem and as a result are still considered prestigious (probably moreso than movies) but instead suffer from lack of audiovisual communication.
It’s funny, because movies still have the prestige television and games do not, despite both of them outstripping cinema in many ways. Movies have become increasingly global common denominator, with razor edge finances, and have ceded so much ground to TV it’s ridiculous.
An example of this: watch Kramer vs Kramer. It’s a great movie, with a big name cast telling an emotional story. Try to think of a more recent movie like it.
An example of this: watch Kramer vs Kramer. It’s a great movie, with a big name cast telling an emotional story. Try to think of a more recent movie like it.
By top i assume you mean most profitable, I guess that movies are simply more accessible and cater to the lowest common denomination.
[deleted]
video games revenues are usually 5x those of video games. call movies 40bb per annum mobile games alone are ~100bb.
Finish Him.
Finish Him.
This is pretty misleading and 5x is totally wrong. You’re quoting the approximate box office number for film, but leaving out home entertainment (streaming & DVDs) and merchandising entirely, while at the same time including those categories on the games side. Film industry revenues as a whole when including streaming exceed $100B per year, and approximately matched the games industry, at least as of 5 years ago. See Wikipedia’s entries on film & game industries [1][2] — in 2018, film was $136B, while games was $135B. It’s only very very recently that total games revenue exceeded total film revenue. Making this much harder to reconcile is that total film revenues are generally not public information and they are notoriously misrepresented and downplayed, maybe to help reduce taxes, royalties, and bonuses, or maybe just for competitive reasons, but either way film numbers are unreliable and underestimated.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry
I doubt many people consider Candy Crush to be a good example of an art form. It’s just an app designed to manipulate human psychology to extract maximal profit.
Isn't most of that revenue from F2P user hostile mobile games?
That'd be like counting TikTok as part of the movie revenue.
That'd be like counting TikTok as part of the movie revenue.
Has to be one of the funniest and most creative games I've ever come across.
The humour was dark and the world building was so nuanced and poetic.
The humour was dark and the world building was so nuanced and poetic.
The fact that this article is be written almost 25 years after Grim Fandango’s release sort of nullifies the criticism.
How many games are still being talked about and played that long after the fact?
How many games are still being talked about and played that long after the fact?
Always worth mentioning: if you're a fan of Grim, The Journey Down is a game that borrows a LOT from it, while taking advantage of the advances made in the interim.
What advances do you think TJD takes advantage of compared to GF besides the improvements in graphics which are IMO barely relevant to the experience. I like the TJD trilogy well enough but claiming it not only holds up to the classics like GF but actually surpasses it is not something I can get behind.
>claiming it not only holds up to the classics like GF but actually surpasses it
I didn't.
>the improvements in graphics
That would be the big one. Also whatever changes in development/publishing that made it producible by an indie outfit no one had heard of, rather than Tim Schafer(TM) backed by LucasArts(TM).
I didn't.
>the improvements in graphics
That would be the big one. Also whatever changes in development/publishing that made it producible by an indie outfit no one had heard of, rather than Tim Schafer(TM) backed by LucasArts(TM).
I still mumble the main theme to myself from time to time..
The mariachi band on the first outside scene is unforgettable to me: https://tidal.com/track/101427831?u .
Yes! I thought that was the main theme.
Very interesting article, I feel like some of the criticisms also apply to Broken Age. I was well into that game before I realized (ok, looked up) that a puzzle needed you to toggle characters. This functionality was never mentioned prior to that. Some of it just felt so janky, but interesting art and story.
The pre-rendered backgrounds were breathtaking in the 90s, but today the old off-line ray tracing looks worse than what modern games can render (same goes for the original Myst).
The remastered version has been released before AI upscaling got interesting. I wonder if a re-remastered version could be made look better.
The remastered version has been released before AI upscaling got interesting. I wonder if a re-remastered version could be made look better.
> The remastered version has been released before AI upscaling got "interesting"
And thank god for that.
And thank god for that.
I played through GF with GameFAQs open next to it, and had an incredible time for it. All the frustration stripped away and left with just the story, soundtrack, dialogue, and appreciation for the fun creative puzzle designs without bashing my head against them. I felt guilty for doing it that way; it's nice to know it wasn't my fault for being too dumb!
Run, you pigeons, it’s Robert Frost!
One of my top 3 favorite games of all time. When it comes to story and characters, I cannot think of any better game. Recently finished it for the third time on Nintendo Switch.
I just love this game.
Yes, same.
I had forgotten all about it. Such nostalgia at seeing the cover.
I had forgotten all about it. Such nostalgia at seeing the cover.
[deleted]
Even with a guide, I still had no idea what the hell I was doing with that train puzzle.
Glottis barfing and the beat poetry simulator had me rolling on the floor laughing my ass off.
What a year for games 1998 was. Grim Fandango, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Starcraft.
So many factors contributed to big investment in the mid-90s. Windows had exploded, followed by the Playstation a few years later; 3D became relatively easy to use in all games; the US economy was doing well; the internet was full of promise.
It would all come crashing down only a few years later, but it was a massive wave.
It would all come crashing down only a few years later, but it was a massive wave.
Don't forget Gex: Enter the Geko!
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron was also a technical marvel at the time.
Xenogears, Spyro the Dragon, Banjo-Kazooie, Goldeneye, Resident Evil 2...
[deleted]
Without a doubt, one of the greatest games of all times!
Not that criticism is bad but Grim Fandango seems to one of the most if not most loved adventure games (just visit and adventure game forum or subreddit). So one can take it apart and think about the individual parts but the whole is certainly a masterpiece of a game.