Starting a Business at 60: My Father's Story(thoughts.jatintiwari.com)
thoughts.jatintiwari.com
Starting a Business at 60: My Father's Story
https://thoughts.jatintiwari.com/pages/starting-business-at-60.html
56 comments
My old man is in his 80s. I run a small brick & mortar business. I figured I'd bring him in and keep him busy -- do him a favor and perhaps help slow down his cognitive decline. But it turns out I was the one who needed him around. He's meticulous with the bookkeeping and really good at crunching numbers with pen & paper. It dawned on me... they don't make people like this anymore...
Slightly OT, but my opinion is they do still make people like this, our businesses just don't demand high-quality work as consistently as they used to, particularly for the kinds of work where software is marketed as the solution (across many functions).
I think it's more like software is able to handle the cognitive dissonance of managing years of a company's books and seeing in plain numbers that they don't make any money and are just burning investor cash until the party ends.
He must be delighted to hear that.
If nothing else, after stability is reached on a retirement income, you may find that is the time you have the opportunity for action on projects and ventures under the most favorable terms of your life.
So many things that really do make money but were not worthwhile on shitty terms can come into reach, plus anyone involved can have no doubt that you're intending to make something happen sooner rather than later. Whether it's building a desirable acquisition target, or laying the valuable foundation for a growing institution.
So many things that really do make money but were not worthwhile on shitty terms can come into reach, plus anyone involved can have no doubt that you're intending to make something happen sooner rather than later. Whether it's building a desirable acquisition target, or laying the valuable foundation for a growing institution.
That's very true: the opportunity cost of most business projects is effectively zero once you are retired, so you can pursue something only marginally profitable that you enjoy and it counts as a win. In fact you have a competitive advantage against a 40-year-old with a young family to support.
The corresponding quote to:
Youth is wasted on the young.
Wealth is wasted in the hands of the old.Seems to me that more than the age, it is about attitude. If you have a personal who is still curious at 60 and just working to stay active, you are getting a wealth of experience without the kind of nonsense that basically comes from having to take care of a family and the responsibility to raise kids. The upside (or downside, depending on the situation) is that you'll probably get more candid feedback.
this was very inspiring to read. i am at 40. i tried a startup and failed about 4 years ago. not sure if i am up for another as its extremely difficult.
i felt i might be too old to try again and felt a little alienated from everyone i speak. everyone speaks about lot of things but feel everything is quote shallow and nobody understands what it takes. i keep having thoughts about what i could have fixed, what business i can try now. am little burnt out from tech and wanted to have a smaller non tech business but felt would i be able to or not. but reading about this gave me a sense of belonging or thought that there are some of us who are always not satisfied.
i felt i might be too old to try again and felt a little alienated from everyone i speak. everyone speaks about lot of things but feel everything is quote shallow and nobody understands what it takes. i keep having thoughts about what i could have fixed, what business i can try now. am little burnt out from tech and wanted to have a smaller non tech business but felt would i be able to or not. but reading about this gave me a sense of belonging or thought that there are some of us who are always not satisfied.
> He got my father a job at a milk plant, working 9-5.
As a person who was raised on a small family dairy farm, when I read this I thought of cow milk processing like in the US; producing pasteurized milk, cheese, etc. But I have never seen milk or cheese in my limited exposure to Indian cuisine. So, maybe someone can enlighten me; what type of milk and how is it processed?
As a person who was raised on a small family dairy farm, when I read this I thought of cow milk processing like in the US; producing pasteurized milk, cheese, etc. But I have never seen milk or cheese in my limited exposure to Indian cuisine. So, maybe someone can enlighten me; what type of milk and how is it processed?
> I have never seen milk or cheese in my limited exposure to Indian cuisine.
Indian cuisine is diary oriented to a point that while vegetarian food is super common, it is very difficult to find vegan food (especially North Indian food which is more common in the west). As a fun exercise try finding a local Indian restaurant and see how many of the dishes are vegetarian vs vegan. If you live in an area with a large Indian population, you may find Indian vegetarian restaurants locally - check their menu for vegan items. Milk consumption both directly or in tea is extremely common. Butter and ghee (clarified butter) is omnipresent in Indian cooking. Yogurt (locally called curd) and buttermilk (watery yogurt) is also widely consumed. Paneer, which is a kind of cheese made from curdling milk (very similar to tofu) is very common in North Indian dishes.
Indian cuisine is diary oriented to a point that while vegetarian food is super common, it is very difficult to find vegan food (especially North Indian food which is more common in the west). As a fun exercise try finding a local Indian restaurant and see how many of the dishes are vegetarian vs vegan. If you live in an area with a large Indian population, you may find Indian vegetarian restaurants locally - check their menu for vegan items. Milk consumption both directly or in tea is extremely common. Butter and ghee (clarified butter) is omnipresent in Indian cooking. Yogurt (locally called curd) and buttermilk (watery yogurt) is also widely consumed. Paneer, which is a kind of cheese made from curdling milk (very similar to tofu) is very common in North Indian dishes.
That comment flabbergasted me, lol. One of the few things popularly known about Hindus is many of them consider cows sacred. Although, technically, many in India will choose to use ox milk instead of cow milk since it is much richer/fattier (and I assume cheaper too).
Family dairy farm could be involved in:
- straightforward milk harvesting.
- paneer (a type of cottage cheese, and an Indian staple, the principle source of protein for vegetarians. when vegetarian Indians [in India, not necessarily elsewhere] mention cheese, this is "ackshually" what they're talking about).
- yogurt (called "curd" or "curds" in India. a staple that's eaten raw, or added to curries while cooking). Fun fact: till a generation ago, most yogurt in India was made at home (or in the shop in the case of eating establishments) using starter that had been passed down for generations. (if one branch of the family got thicker, tastier yogurt than another branch [from their starter], the first branch would share their starter with the second branch -- if they had cordial relations.)
- straightforward milk harvesting.
- paneer (a type of cottage cheese, and an Indian staple, the principle source of protein for vegetarians. when vegetarian Indians [in India, not necessarily elsewhere] mention cheese, this is "ackshually" what they're talking about).
- yogurt (called "curd" or "curds" in India. a staple that's eaten raw, or added to curries while cooking). Fun fact: till a generation ago, most yogurt in India was made at home (or in the shop in the case of eating establishments) using starter that had been passed down for generations. (if one branch of the family got thicker, tastier yogurt than another branch [from their starter], the first branch would share their starter with the second branch -- if they had cordial relations.)
The last point even made it to NYTimes:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/dining/homemade-yogurt-st...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/dining/homemade-yogurt-st...
I highly recommend trying paneer masala. It’s delicious.
It’s really cool that you got to watch and recognize this change in your father; seeing it is one thing but then putting the pieces together to present this holistic story seems magical. Thanks for sharing!
I often feel that I'm too old to make the pivot from finance to software development at 36 despite being utterly determined and passionate. Thanks for sharing
Starting a business to give you energy is a great reason.
I reached 60 this year... So please give me a break with this idea that you are old at 60 in 2024. My mind is as sharp as it was 20 years ago... I have decided to train myself on LLMs after years of research in computational linguistics, the old way with grammar rules. And this experience in linguistics has proven so far quite rich as it gives me a different take on these incredible tools.
This idea that you should do things according to some random number is basically how you end up in depression. Now I had a pretty confortable life, and I wouldn't dare speaking of people with construction jobs, where the body has been worn out by years of hard work. But for people with an office job, 60 is not that much of an issue.
Agreed. As someone in my mid-50's I find the attitude to many people towards age really bizarre. I've just got back from trail running in the mountains. I'm fitter and healthier now than I was in my mid-30s, and haven't noticed any kind of cognitive decline at all, in fact I think I'm much more mentally able now because I read a lot and so have picked up a lot of knowledge. The only noticeable change is now I have to wear glasses when reading.
The secret, I think, is to keep developing and improving yourself, both mentally and physically.
There's people who call themselves old at 30. I don't know if it is an excuse or what....but it's weird.
I know a 50 year old personally who finished ironman triathlon.
I know a 50 year old personally who finished ironman triathlon.
Yes I had someone the other day ask me if they were too old to study a subject at 35... I find it very weird.
I think if you don't exercise, and you don't learn new things, you probably do start feeling old pretty quickly.
people have said directly on this board that if you are 35 and trying to program, you should consider retirement or changing lines of work
I have been one of these people. The (lack of) fitness is a huge part of it.
But also, some of us just feel like we're in a rush, and we see the people around us doing and achieving things that we'd like to have done already. If you don't have kids by 30 and want them, there's a lot of nonsense telling you that time is gradually running out, etc.
Our worship of youth (relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJKEwYEx8Q) starts hitting different at a surprisingly young age. I assume it's far worse for women too.
But also, some of us just feel like we're in a rush, and we see the people around us doing and achieving things that we'd like to have done already. If you don't have kids by 30 and want them, there's a lot of nonsense telling you that time is gradually running out, etc.
Our worship of youth (relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJKEwYEx8Q) starts hitting different at a surprisingly young age. I assume it's far worse for women too.
I'm 35, I consider myself old. Why? Objectively speaking, I simply can't do what I could during my 10s and 20s anymore. It's a fundamental change from becoming able to do more things as I got older, now I can do less things as I get older and that's sad.
Anecdotally speaking, I'm just tired of nearly everything and I have nothing I could call life aspirations or dreams. I'm satisfied if I get through another day in peace.
Some people are young until the moment they croak, some are old from the moment they gain real awareness and agency, but most people cruise from young to old on a biological slide.
Anecdotally speaking, I'm just tired of nearly everything and I have nothing I could call life aspirations or dreams. I'm satisfied if I get through another day in peace.
Some people are young until the moment they croak, some are old from the moment they gain real awareness and agency, but most people cruise from young to old on a biological slide.
Please don't take this in bad faith but unless you're struggling with health related issues these limitations seem rather self imposed. Your second paragraph makes it sound like it's mental rather than physical, have you considered a mentor or life coach?
>these limitations seem rather self imposed.
Simply put, aging is a bitch.
I can't pull all-nighters or concentrate as hard as I could in my youth anymore, among many other things, and I'm more or less constantly exhausted simply due to the fierce but uncaring passage of time.
>mental rather than physical
No doubt it's more mental than physical, but it all comes down to aging one way or another. There's less wonder in life the more I experience; I'm just tired and the only explanation is I'm old, full stop. Most people are more young at 35 than I am, but I'm not one of them.
Simply put, aging is a bitch.
I can't pull all-nighters or concentrate as hard as I could in my youth anymore, among many other things, and I'm more or less constantly exhausted simply due to the fierce but uncaring passage of time.
>mental rather than physical
No doubt it's more mental than physical, but it all comes down to aging one way or another. There's less wonder in life the more I experience; I'm just tired and the only explanation is I'm old, full stop. Most people are more young at 35 than I am, but I'm not one of them.
All nighters are usually the result of poorly set expectations or poor planning. Give yourself some grace and set reasonable expectations for yourself. You just sound burned out, not old. At your age, you need to give yourself some time to figure out, and recover, from whatever is going on in your life, not blame the passage of time.
It’s none of my business, but I say this out of hoping to help: you’re almost perfectly describing depression. You are depressed. I’ve been there, and still deal with it, but it can be helped with a variety of methods. I hope you will talk to a doctor or someone else about it. As an aside, I was surprised when someone told me I was depressed because I didn’t fit the model of depression that I had imagined. It turns out there are various degrees, and “low grade” depression sucks the energy and joy out of life. I wish I had discovered all of the above at the young age of 35 - life could have been better. Good luck.
I think you're trying to read too much between the lines.
When I say I'm tired, I mean literally so. I have lots of joys in life even if it's not as wonderous anymore; lots of things I want to do. The problem is I don't have nearly enough energy nor time for them anymore as I get older. I have more responsibilities (things that need doing) as I get older and my body simply isn't as lively as when I was younger.
And that is only going to get even worse as time passes.
Aging is a bitch.
When I say I'm tired, I mean literally so. I have lots of joys in life even if it's not as wonderous anymore; lots of things I want to do. The problem is I don't have nearly enough energy nor time for them anymore as I get older. I have more responsibilities (things that need doing) as I get older and my body simply isn't as lively as when I was younger.
And that is only going to get even worse as time passes.
Aging is a bitch.
I know I’m just some rando on the Internet and my tiny view of a small slice of your life is not much to go on, but I’m still betting on some low level depression, or some sort of endocrine system thing. 35 is close to the prime of life. I remember being very busy with kids at that age and tired, but I wouldn’t have described things like you have. Aging IS a bitch, but I’m concerned that you feel that way already. Wait till you hit your 50’s :( Anyway, I’ll shut up and wish you all the best. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
What more responsibilities do you have?
(For context, I'm 40 and feel old too. My partner died after a short and nasty illness, which was difficult in itself, and I was left to care for our then two years old kid. I only have one responsibility, but it's more than enough...)
(For context, I'm 40 and feel old too. My partner died after a short and nasty illness, which was difficult in itself, and I was left to care for our then two years old kid. I only have one responsibility, but it's more than enough...)
how do you work? or do you get financial support? i could not hold a job if i had to take care of kids without a partner.
I only started working again recently and work very little. I was earning quite well before, and I'm very thrifty. I guess few are better prepared for disasters than me ;)
I live in the French Alps and many of my friends are ardent trailers. Most of them are beyond 50 and they still do 160km trails regurlaly.
Thats cause age doesnt signal what stress or trauma you have dealt with in life.
Depends totally on the life experience of the person. Look at the reactions of friends and family to the Luigi Mangione story. They are all universally suprised and shocked. Why?
Cause the assumption is a well educated well off 26 year old can handle what ever the environment throws at them.
Depends totally on the life experience of the person. Look at the reactions of friends and family to the Luigi Mangione story. They are all universally suprised and shocked. Why?
Cause the assumption is a well educated well off 26 year old can handle what ever the environment throws at them.
My aunt did Ironman into her late 60s but it's not because she was "young and full of energy" it was because "she is an absolute psychopath and it affects every aspect of her life".
Last I counted she has 5 current ongoing civil lawsuits, on both sides of the courtroom. Two of her own children won't speak to her and the third is getting there.
Last I counted she has 5 current ongoing civil lawsuits, on both sides of the courtroom. Two of her own children won't speak to her and the third is getting there.
She must be fun to have a drink with though right?
Aging and cognitive decline is real. I do notice I don’t respond as quickly as in my twenties when presented with problems that require logical reasoning and abstract pattern recognition for example. This is usually not a problem because most of the tasks I execute on a daily basis don’t require these skills. But it is evident that the decline is there and I think it’s important to recognize it. On the positive side at this stage of my professional and social life I believe experience is much more important to succeed than sharpness of mind. However experience is memory and memory also declines with age.
Yeah, the idea that you can't do something like this at 60 is just the rambling of someone that doesn't know what they don't know. Not as bad as the comments on HN that talk about cognitive decline at 40, but still badly uninformed.
old men yelling at clouds
nobody said they can’t. Statistics show they don’t do it the at the same rate so it’s an accomplishment when some do
nobody said they can’t. Statistics show they don’t do it the at the same rate so it’s an accomplishment when some do
Which statistics are those? https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wha... seems to indicate that 45 or 55 are the “best” ages to start a business. And since the average was 42 between 2007 and 2014 it would seem to indicate that at least a good amount of founders are “old”.
If I were to guess I think most founders would be either young or above middle age. Living “poor” is less of a problem when you’re young, and then once your children grow up and you have both experience and stable finances you’re again free of a lot of life’s responsibilities. Meanwhile you’re likely going to be struggling to even find enough hours in your life to take a shower in your 30-40ies with small kids and jobs, and you’re also likely to actually depend on paychecks during this period.
If I were to guess I think most founders would be either young or above middle age. Living “poor” is less of a problem when you’re young, and then once your children grow up and you have both experience and stable finances you’re again free of a lot of life’s responsibilities. Meanwhile you’re likely going to be struggling to even find enough hours in your life to take a shower in your 30-40ies with small kids and jobs, and you’re also likely to actually depend on paychecks during this period.
Well, nobody except the author of the article we're commenting on.
> At first, I doubted if he could run a business at his age. I wanted him to relax at home.
As for this
> Statistics show they don’t do it the at the same rate so it’s an accomplishment when some do
51% of US business owners are at least 55: https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/busi...
> At first, I doubted if he could run a business at his age. I wanted him to relax at home.
As for this
> Statistics show they don’t do it the at the same rate so it’s an accomplishment when some do
51% of US business owners are at least 55: https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/busi...
>51% of US business owners are at least 55: https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/busi...
The impetus of this particular thread and context of gp (sabbaticaldev) comment is "starting" a business at age 60.
On the other hand, your cite seems to be survey of all businesses and gets a snapshot of whatever ages the business owners happen to be when the survey was done. In other words, maybe many of those 55+ business owners started when they were much younger?
The impetus of this particular thread and context of gp (sabbaticaldev) comment is "starting" a business at age 60.
On the other hand, your cite seems to be survey of all businesses and gets a snapshot of whatever ages the business owners happen to be when the survey was done. In other words, maybe many of those 55+ business owners started when they were much younger?
Plenty of people have definitely said they can't. But the lesson is - just don't listen to anyone, because nobody knows the future, and you can do whatever you want and let the chips fall where they may!
> So please give me a break with this idea that you are old at 60 in 2024
Well, brain decline is documented and starts well before 60, but maybe we're not equal. I'm 50, and I can tell my mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. My memory isn't as good, and I feel complex mental tasks require more energy. It seems I've lost a layer of cache. That being said, I'm not done yet, I'm still able to do my job (SWE in a competitive environment where my colleagues are much younger).
Well, brain decline is documented and starts well before 60, but maybe we're not equal. I'm 50, and I can tell my mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. My memory isn't as good, and I feel complex mental tasks require more energy. It seems I've lost a layer of cache. That being said, I'm not done yet, I'm still able to do my job (SWE in a competitive environment where my colleagues are much younger).
Have you been taking good care of yourself?
I imagine people who are staying healthy are more likely to have a healthy brain.
I imagine people who are staying healthy are more likely to have a healthy brain.
So much this… if you get enough sleep, exercise, hydration, and proper nutrition, everything works so much better.
I do. I don't think my brain is unhealthy. But brain and body decline as we age, that's a fact of life.
While the decline is documented, there is much to be said for the more experienced employee. More knowledge about what is important in the domain rather than what might be the current fad.
In a competitive environment, certainly take advantage of your colleagues youth and inexperience.
The most problematic area is some people’s assumptions that you are too old to contribute. This might be misunderstanding or deliberate as they want less objections to their plans (or exploitations).
Being your boss might be an ideal solution.
In a competitive environment, certainly take advantage of your colleagues youth and inexperience.
The most problematic area is some people’s assumptions that you are too old to contribute. This might be misunderstanding or deliberate as they want less objections to their plans (or exploitations).
Being your boss might be an ideal solution.
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I see several comments coming down hard on this man's suggestion that 60 is unusually old to be starting a business, but keep in mind that he comes from a different culture than you.
In my culture, as well as that of the critics, we agree that 60 is not old, and it's also quite normal to be starting a business at such an age. But his culture, which makes berth in Bengaluru, India, obviously has different expectations regarding age, and so that's why it's unusual (but elating) to see his father do this at such an age.
Just remember that, and cut him some slack.
In my culture, as well as that of the critics, we agree that 60 is not old, and it's also quite normal to be starting a business at such an age. But his culture, which makes berth in Bengaluru, India, obviously has different expectations regarding age, and so that's why it's unusual (but elating) to see his father do this at such an age.
Just remember that, and cut him some slack.
Frankly this is not entrepreneurship. Retried, sons settled, no financial risk. It's as good, as bad as signing up for another government job
Enterprise is throwing the last dime you have knowing if you lost it, it's the streets.
Enterprise is throwing the last dime you have knowing if you lost it, it's the streets.