Ask HN: How to make working in software fun again?
9 comments
> I've identified the reason to be how intellectually unstimulating coding has become
I've felt the same, so I went low-level. Logic gates, assembly, reversing, etc. It's a whole other world. I'm not quite sure how good LLMs are in this area though. Perhaps they're really good and I'm wasting my time (again). But it's fun; it felt like learning how to program for the first time again.
I've felt the same, so I went low-level. Logic gates, assembly, reversing, etc. It's a whole other world. I'm not quite sure how good LLMs are in this area though. Perhaps they're really good and I'm wasting my time (again). But it's fun; it felt like learning how to program for the first time again.
> "I'm not quite sure how good LLMs are in this area though. Perhaps they're really good and I'm wasting my time (again)."
Yes, it's certainly an interesting conundrum, both on a strictly individual as well as collective level. One solution is to get one's coding as far away from the digital equivalent of plumbing as possible. In other words: One concentrates on the artistic, non-utilitarian (in the Wildean sense) stuff. A manifestation of cultural expression, a transfer of "the personal". That doesn't have to exclude the utilitarian, of course; it's offered more as a door which might neccessitate a deeper reflection before the commitment (e. g. Joanna Maciejewska's oneliner on "AI").
Yes, it's certainly an interesting conundrum, both on a strictly individual as well as collective level. One solution is to get one's coding as far away from the digital equivalent of plumbing as possible. In other words: One concentrates on the artistic, non-utilitarian (in the Wildean sense) stuff. A manifestation of cultural expression, a transfer of "the personal". That doesn't have to exclude the utilitarian, of course; it's offered more as a door which might neccessitate a deeper reflection before the commitment (e. g. Joanna Maciejewska's oneliner on "AI").
I don't know if vibe coding is the solution to all problems. There's a lot that it can't solve, which means it's up to humans to develop the applications. Maybe you just need to find the right application to create.
It's kind of hard these days, because if you look at the world of software, corporations have enterprise systems that don't really spark any excitement for the people working on them, video games are worse than what they used to be, specifically AAA titles (indie games are cool, but they don't bring me as much excitement as AAA titles), there's like a million Android and iOS apps, most of which just aren't as... amazing as you'd want them to be.
If you really think about it, it just really comes down to the money. See, the United States is $38 trillion in debt, and as a result, I think a lot of people are struggling. If the U.S. wasn't $38 trillion in debt, I think a lot of people would have a lot more fun with software, in a way that... there would be something to create.
So, what I'm saying is, if there's a way to create software that revives society, and eases the struggle with money, that would be the thing to create.
It's kind of hard these days, because if you look at the world of software, corporations have enterprise systems that don't really spark any excitement for the people working on them, video games are worse than what they used to be, specifically AAA titles (indie games are cool, but they don't bring me as much excitement as AAA titles), there's like a million Android and iOS apps, most of which just aren't as... amazing as you'd want them to be.
If you really think about it, it just really comes down to the money. See, the United States is $38 trillion in debt, and as a result, I think a lot of people are struggling. If the U.S. wasn't $38 trillion in debt, I think a lot of people would have a lot more fun with software, in a way that... there would be something to create.
So, what I'm saying is, if there's a way to create software that revives society, and eases the struggle with money, that would be the thing to create.
I thought that this article submission a few days ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543516
presented a reasonable approach for using AI coding tools but still staying engaged with the code.
I am wary of hanging over the reigns entirely to AI, not just on a one-off project basis, but long-term. I don't think it's wise to rely so heavily on proprietary cloud-based applications as software development tools. Keeping one's hand on the wheel enough -- maybe like as that article describes -- should hopefully leave one still able to take over control entirely if needed.
Of course, who's to say what your employer might demand? It sounds like some people are insistent upon producing code at maximum possible speed, such that if you are still even reviewing code, much less writing some of it by hand, you are wasting time. I don't care for or agree with that notion, but it's not my place to tell someone else what to do.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543516
presented a reasonable approach for using AI coding tools but still staying engaged with the code.
I am wary of hanging over the reigns entirely to AI, not just on a one-off project basis, but long-term. I don't think it's wise to rely so heavily on proprietary cloud-based applications as software development tools. Keeping one's hand on the wheel enough -- maybe like as that article describes -- should hopefully leave one still able to take over control entirely if needed.
Of course, who's to say what your employer might demand? It sounds like some people are insistent upon producing code at maximum possible speed, such that if you are still even reviewing code, much less writing some of it by hand, you are wasting time. I don't care for or agree with that notion, but it's not my place to tell someone else what to do.
as i've said (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43836353)
try working outside the software industry for someone who needs some software. I had a great time in the 90s working on digital audio gear.
I also had a great time in the 90s and early 00s doing various software and tech gigs for non-software, mom & pop type outfits that just needed a bit of scripting, a web app, some network setup, etc... often found through mailing lists, usenet, user groups, friends of friends.
I've tried to go back to that a few times, but it's actually pretty hard to do these days. After a few decades of trillions of dollars of investment, pretty much every tiny niche has become a company / app with dozens of developers, or available as an online customizable SaaS, or something that can be vibe coded.
I've tried to go back to that a few times, but it's actually pretty hard to do these days. After a few decades of trillions of dollars of investment, pretty much every tiny niche has become a company / app with dozens of developers, or available as an online customizable SaaS, or something that can be vibe coded.
> "Am I overthinking it?"
It feels like you answered your own questions and are also to bothered by what sloperators and assorted clout chasers think. Coding, especially "deep work", is your passion that you'll still do once you exit the rat race, vibe coding is the source of your intellectual understimulation.
To me, that solution would be simple... cut out the slop, make stuff that you'll be remembered for, that you and maybe some like-minded folks collaborate on. Who cares what some rando vibeclown thinks how long something takes? You did something you might be proud of (i. e. you didn't waste time on trivialities like so many others) and had fun along the way.
But then again my advice comes from a different corner. I don't do vibecoding. Never have, never will. I also count myself lucky that I never had to as all my professional creative endeavours happen(ed) in a freelance capacity, thereby circumventing the corporate slopmire. And I'll intend to keep it that way for control, time, and my mental health are much more important to me. I also enjoy the privilege that I don't have to live in the United States, or a country with a similar, or even worse, setup...
As for different industries... that depends on a lot factors.
It feels like you answered your own questions and are also to bothered by what sloperators and assorted clout chasers think. Coding, especially "deep work", is your passion that you'll still do once you exit the rat race, vibe coding is the source of your intellectual understimulation.
To me, that solution would be simple... cut out the slop, make stuff that you'll be remembered for, that you and maybe some like-minded folks collaborate on. Who cares what some rando vibeclown thinks how long something takes? You did something you might be proud of (i. e. you didn't waste time on trivialities like so many others) and had fun along the way.
But then again my advice comes from a different corner. I don't do vibecoding. Never have, never will. I also count myself lucky that I never had to as all my professional creative endeavours happen(ed) in a freelance capacity, thereby circumventing the corporate slopmire. And I'll intend to keep it that way for control, time, and my mental health are much more important to me. I also enjoy the privilege that I don't have to live in the United States, or a country with a similar, or even worse, setup...
As for different industries... that depends on a lot factors.
Start by having a life outside of computers - “touch grass”. Your job is a method to exchange labor for money to support your addiction to food and shelter. Nothing more or less.
I’m 51 now, during the first 15 years of my career, I got off of work and taught fitness classes as more of a hobby and commitment device than for the money and about once per month, my friends and I did charity races for fun. Of course we hung out at each others place, went to clubs, ate out etc.
I traveled 3-4x a year. Now on the other end with grown (step)kids, my wife and I travel a lot (nothing exotic and I know the credit card tricks).
You make good money in BigTech - enjoy it. While I know it’s not possible now because all of them have RTO mandates, my wife and I spent the second year I was in BigTech (after Covid) traveling around the country and I was still able to save a lot and pay off debt.
I’m 51 now, during the first 15 years of my career, I got off of work and taught fitness classes as more of a hobby and commitment device than for the money and about once per month, my friends and I did charity races for fun. Of course we hung out at each others place, went to clubs, ate out etc.
I traveled 3-4x a year. Now on the other end with grown (step)kids, my wife and I travel a lot (nothing exotic and I know the credit card tricks).
You make good money in BigTech - enjoy it. While I know it’s not possible now because all of them have RTO mandates, my wife and I spent the second year I was in BigTech (after Covid) traveling around the country and I was still able to save a lot and pay off debt.
Is this is for personal projects or work related? For personal, I say do what the hell you want. There's no point being deliberately miserable if you get so much enjoyment out of it. e.g. Build a compiler for BASIC that outputs LLVM bytecode! :-)
For work, you probably have to dance to someone else's tune.
For work, you probably have to dance to someone else's tune.
I'm a software engineer in games and big tech for a combined 15 years. Coding is my biggest passion and I'll still do it when I retire.
However, a large part of me wants to get into an entirely different industry.
I've identified the reason to be how intellectually unstimulating coding has become (due to vibe coding).
The AI tools are incredible - but in terms of learning and self development, vibe coding as an education form lacks depth and the classic sense of mastery. I feel like I've learned 90% of everything there is to know about vibe coding. The last 10% is just marginal gains.
I live for the thrilling moments in software development - I was in the industry early enough to roll out software on our own server racks. As a game dev, I regularly implemented algorithms (such as path finding, physics integrations and rendering logic). I also got to work with Mixed Reality headsets and help define UX paradigms.
I feel like there's now a stigma around DIY coding - one should simply use an off-the-shelf solution or AI.
I get so much pleasure in doing deep work, but nowadays, any feature that takes more than 2 days to implement gets eyebrows raised.
Am I overthinking it?