Tinkercoin Will Sell You $20 in Bitcoin, But Only Once(coindesk.com)
coindesk.com
Tinkercoin Will Sell You $20 in Bitcoin, But Only Once
http://www.coindesk.com/tinkercoin-sell-20-bitcoin-only-once/
77 comments
I also had the same issue, but Gareth verified my information and got the transaction through in around 10 minutes. Props to them for quick service.
reso replied that you got the bitcoins. Could you please confirm?
Don't do it! SCAM. They steal all of your data. After giving them my FB info, and Credit card I got the same error. I was unable to get a hold of anyone (3 e-mails, 3 phone calls) I finally got "Trevor" on the live chat. He said "Their processor can't process my card" and "it's outside of their control" ... so thanks for stealing all of my data. My card works 100% just fine, don't fall for this!
Hey, email me at [email protected] and I can take a look!
Edit: I had a good chat with sync and he/she successfully got bitcoins.
Edit: I had a good chat with sync and he/she successfully got bitcoins.
(See Edit) Count me in the "me too" category. Pretty sketchy process. I've revoked their permission to my Facebook account and pray my cc info is not being sold on the Russian black market. Edit: Trevor at TinkerCoin cleared up the issue and the BTC are in my Coinbase wallet. So Kudos to them.
Completely understand your frustration. We have to keep a very high bar because of the possibility of credit card fraud, and sometimes we have false negatives. Sorry for the confusion!
Have you implemented Mastercard Securecode/Verified by Visa? These offer you protection against chargebacks for "cardholder unauthorized" chargebacks, which account for roughly 60% of all chargebacks in card-not-present transactions.
> “There’s almost no future in which selling $20 of bitcoins to someone will label you as any kind of significant money transfer businesses,” said MacLeod, explaining how he expects to fly under the regulators’ radar in both the US and Canada with his service.
I hope he's not naive enough to genuinely believe that.
I hope he's not naive enough to genuinely believe that.
Yeah, I might end up eating my words. The quote was taken a little bit out of context, what I was trying to convey was that amounts this small are very unlikely to need the intense KYC/AML checks that full-featured Bitcoin exchange are required to do.
[deleted]
Oh they are headed for trouble, you cannot avoid regulation that way.
You can get a stack of $20 one-use debit cards and you can get a CC generator from some banks for your card to use for a one-time purchase online.
One could automate buying thousands if they had the time and money.
You can get a stack of $20 one-use debit cards and you can get a CC generator from some banks for your card to use for a one-time purchase online.
One could automate buying thousands if they had the time and money.
This is Gareth from Tinkercoin, thanks for checking us out! We are completely compliant with all US federal AML/KYC laws. We also have a strong background in credit-card fraud and it's been top of our mind since day one.
How are you going to deal with disputes? ie. I buy bitcoin at tinkercoin and now I'm want my $20 back. I've only to start a dispute at my bank and I'll get my money automatically until you prove that I've received the bitcoin. I'm not sure but I think you might have a hard time proving your system has no bug and that everything went as you say it did (ie. the customer actually own the bitcoin address you say is his etc.) I've always thought that you can't prove by your own system and that nobody will ever reach your code so see if it's right and even then, what prove that it is the code which was live when the customer was here etc.
Clearly, how are you going to prove the customer bitcoin address is actually his? Note I've almost no knownledge in this field and it's been a time I'm looking for an answer to this question.
edit: one might think that one $20 loss per x transactions can be absorbed by the cost of business but I think it doesn't work since the hack's going to be shared and it will grow in quantity and in efficiency to finally reach a buzz stage. I might be wrong again here.
Clearly, how are you going to prove the customer bitcoin address is actually his? Note I've almost no knownledge in this field and it's been a time I'm looking for an answer to this question.
edit: one might think that one $20 loss per x transactions can be absorbed by the cost of business but I think it doesn't work since the hack's going to be shared and it will grow in quantity and in efficiency to finally reach a buzz stage. I might be wrong again here.
You don't actually get your money back "automatically." The merchant has a chance to respond first. It's almost impossible to get money back from a company that knows its way around a chargeback (like a gym membership).
You can easily detect a prepaid card from a traditional debit/credit card.
http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview
http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview
Why would someone go to the trouble? If you want to buy $1000 in Bitcoin there are plenty of places willing to sell that to you without buying one-time-use debit cards and VPS accounts for proxies and everything else involved in evading detection at a business that doesn't want to sell it to you.
There are plenty of places willing to sell you $1000 in bitcoins on a credit card?
Coinbase will, I believe.
Coinbase requires a verified bank account, not a credit card. Edit to add: No one will sell you BTC on a credit card because credit card transactions are reversible and bitcoin transactions are not.
Yes, but you can also optionally add a credit card. Though, looking closer, they say:
Credit cards are a backup payment method only and cannot be used to buy bitcoin directly
An additional fee of 3.1% + $0.18 will be applied to any charges made to your cards.
An additional "cash advance"/ATM fee may be applied by your bank, depending on your agreement with them.
Credit cards are a backup payment method only and cannot be used to buy bitcoin directly
An additional fee of 3.1% + $0.18 will be applied to any charges made to your cards.
An additional "cash advance"/ATM fee may be applied by your bank, depending on your agreement with them.
How do you get around the phone verification step? Burner phones aren't that cheap.
A new number here in Uruguay costs U$ 2.
Though the market here is VERY different, many people legitimately use prepaid phones, it's not like in the U.S. where it's something seen as suspicious/fringe, so it might be subsidized by the phone company.
Edit: they do sell prepaid SIMs in the USA but they're really expensive, much like cell phone service overall there.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp
some forums suggest there are cheaper options
www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g32655-i61-k5212639-Pre_Paid_SIM_card_while_in_USA_non_residents-Los_Angeles_California.html
Though the market here is VERY different, many people legitimately use prepaid phones, it's not like in the U.S. where it's something seen as suspicious/fringe, so it might be subsidized by the phone company.
Edit: they do sell prepaid SIMs in the USA but they're really expensive, much like cell phone service overall there.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp
some forums suggest there are cheaper options
www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g32655-i61-k5212639-Pre_Paid_SIM_card_while_in_USA_non_residents-Los_Angeles_California.html
Twilio or Google Voice numbers, maybe?
Those can be detected. Facebook rules them out of its phone verification process, for instance.
Ipkall's free PSTN->SIP numbers?
"Tinkercoin will receive the following info: your public profile, friend list, email address, work history, status updates, education history, hometown and current city."
No thanks.
No thanks.
... then why is it ok for facebook to have all of that same information ?
As justinreeves said, I choose to give that information to Facebook. It's absurd having to share all of this information to Tinkercoin so they can supposedly verify my identity to allow me to purchase $20 worth of BTC, without any indication of how they're going to use all this valuable information about me.
Stopped using Facebook auth a long time ago for this very reason and revoked access to all apps except those that I trust. There's no reason to share my entire Facebook account with everyone out there, and if that's the only way I can use their service, then I just won't use it. No big deal.
Stopped using Facebook auth a long time ago for this very reason and revoked access to all apps except those that I trust. There's no reason to share my entire Facebook account with everyone out there, and if that's the only way I can use their service, then I just won't use it. No big deal.
Your concern about facebook login is totally justified. If you check out the verification processes used by bitcoin exchanges and brokers, you'll find that they collect far more sensitive data than anything Tinkercoin touches.
Because he chose to give it to FB? Just because he's fine with FB having that info, doesn't mean he needs to be fine with every other company getting it.
[deleted]
(1) Maybe it's not
(2) He gets to decide that, not you.
(2) He gets to decide that, not you.
The money transmission license aren't necessary for firms dealing less than 1000 USD per person per day, as the article says, and they are offering only 20 dollars one time ever.
To me it's just an attempt to create a large database with people interested in bitcoin (with their credit cards).
TryBTC.com introduces bitcoin to new users more effectively.
To me it's just an attempt to create a large database with people interested in bitcoin (with their credit cards).
TryBTC.com introduces bitcoin to new users more effectively.
Cool idea, but I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance. The great promise of Bitcoin to the regular consumer is supposed to be transactions without the surcharges of financial institutions and privacy, yet here we have a service that takes a large cut even after their money processor takes its cut, and requires you to sign up through an organization hardly known for its privacy (Facebook).
I don't mean to beat on Tinkercoin, because I think it sounds like a totally decent way to....well....tinker with coins, but I am critical of the overall hubris behind Bitcoin.
I don't mean to beat on Tinkercoin, because I think it sounds like a totally decent way to....well....tinker with coins, but I am critical of the overall hubris behind Bitcoin.
I can't speak for Tinker, but they are friends of mine.
As I understand it, their intent is to help people get their first bitcoins really easily. Most services require that you scan and upload a lot of documents. This is quick and painless.
As I understand it, their intent is to help people get their first bitcoins really easily. Most services require that you scan and upload a lot of documents. This is quick and painless.
How is it really easy when you need a Facebook account?
No offense, but if you're an American adult without a Facebook account, you're the outlier.
> However, there’s also another facet: customers have to sign up for an account, which means that the firm will have their email address, potentially turning the business into a large bitcoin-focused list-building operation.
Do I need to create an account to do a one in a life time purchase? The data for the account are only c.c. number and email? Or they include full name, birthday, address, password and recovery question, parents name, pets name, ...?
Do I need to create an account to do a one in a life time purchase? The data for the account are only c.c. number and email? Or they include full name, birthday, address, password and recovery question, parents name, pets name, ...?
You can login only via Facebook and it requests the following information: public profile, friend list, e-mail address, employer, status messages, education, hometown, place of residence;
This is going from amusing-scam to transparent-scam really quickly.
I don't see any evidence of a scam; Dwolla uses similar social background checks. I think what we're seeing here is the difference between fraud detection and fraud prevention where they can't afford to be wrong.
Compared to all the bitcoin exchanges who require you to upload a passport scan?
Given the difficulties people have in converting Bitcoins to dollars, a more useful service would be one that converts Bitcoin to $20, but only once.
Well, you could start your own tinkercoin, that would work (even more than once) ;0)
[that was supposed to be jovial rather than facetious, hope it worked out]
[that was supposed to be jovial rather than facetious, hope it worked out]
Who is having difficulties converting Bitcoins to dollars? Have you personally had difficulty, or are you just repeating hearsay?
I ask because I've been in Bitcoin since 2011 and I've never had trouble converting Bitcoins back to USD. Right now, I'm not happy about the wire fees I'm paying (and may switch exchanges), but it's as easy as pie to get the money.
I ask because I've been in Bitcoin since 2011 and I've never had trouble converting Bitcoins back to USD. Right now, I'm not happy about the wire fees I'm paying (and may switch exchanges), but it's as easy as pie to get the money.
Here's the story I was thinking about:
http://buttcoin.org/easy
Is there a service that makes the process of turning BTC into USD as easy as Tinkercoin claims to for USD to BTC?
http://buttcoin.org/easy
Is there a service that makes the process of turning BTC into USD as easy as Tinkercoin claims to for USD to BTC?
If you're looking for an instant way to change BTC to USD online, you probably won't find that (at least I have my doubts that such a service can exist legitimately). And I have my doubts that Tinkercoin will be around for long, unfortunately (because of scammers). There's simply an impedance mismatch between Bitcoin and the legacy banking system.
As such, you will be hard pressed to find a way to "instantly" sign up and transfer BTC to USD, if that's what you're asking. But once you've gotten approved at a respectable exchange like Bitstamp, getting USD in your bank account is as easy as exchanging the Bitcoins at your desired rate, filling in your desired amount of USD to transfer, and clicking submit.
Because of the slowness of the legacy wire transfer system, you then have to wait a couple of days before the transfer shows up at your account. But it's an extremely simple process, just like transferring money from your online bank account (but not as easy or fast as sending Bitcoins!).
Note that you do need to submit your ID and some additional information the first time you transfer funds, to get approved. If your exchange isn't doing that, then they're not complying with KYC and they're vulnerable to being shut down.
As such, you will be hard pressed to find a way to "instantly" sign up and transfer BTC to USD, if that's what you're asking. But once you've gotten approved at a respectable exchange like Bitstamp, getting USD in your bank account is as easy as exchanging the Bitcoins at your desired rate, filling in your desired amount of USD to transfer, and clicking submit.
Because of the slowness of the legacy wire transfer system, you then have to wait a couple of days before the transfer shows up at your account. But it's an extremely simple process, just like transferring money from your online bank account (but not as easy or fast as sending Bitcoins!).
Note that you do need to submit your ID and some additional information the first time you transfer funds, to get approved. If your exchange isn't doing that, then they're not complying with KYC and they're vulnerable to being shut down.
I don't think it's reasonable to refer to the entire banking system (incl. wire transfers, etc.) as "legacy".
It's like referring to BTC as legacy crypto currency, because now we have dogecoin.
It's like referring to BTC as legacy crypto currency, because now we have dogecoin.
This is why we are building a #Bitcoin #Startup, help give us a chance by voting at http://game.startupbus.com/teams/15
I've found it easy to sell bitcoins on exchanges or Localbitcoins.
Of course accepting a stranger's cheque is crazy, but asking to verify the bank notes at a bank is a bit much.
Why? Seems like a perfect way to unload counterfeit notes.
I certainly wouldn't trust myself to check whether 25k of strangers cash wasn't counterfeit
I certainly wouldn't trust myself to check whether 25k of strangers cash wasn't counterfeit
> Given the difficulties people have in converting Bitcoins to dollars
Citation. I think you made that up.
Citation. I think you made that up.
Some of it just comes down to how you want to define things.
I mean, how do the various levels of problems dealing with Mt. Gox not fit under difficulties?
I mean, how do the various levels of problems dealing with Mt. Gox not fit under difficulties?
Having difficulty with a company who fails to provide a service that's easily obtained elsewhere does not equate to it being difficult to convert Bitcoin to dollars. It's trivial to convert Bitcoin to dollars; Gox is not Bitcoin, Gox's issues do not apply to Bitcoin.
I'm not insisting that they are one and the same. But insisting that people get their categories exactly right in a casual conversation is tiresome (I mean in the comment I replied to initially).
It's even bad advocacy. You might better say "There are ways to do it that work fine, but there are obviously problems with some providers, especially that one awful one" before you start complaining that people are making things up because they didn't split the right hairs to communicate precisely with you.
It's even bad advocacy. You might better say "There are ways to do it that work fine, but there are obviously problems with some providers, especially that one awful one" before you start complaining that people are making things up because they didn't split the right hairs to communicate precisely with you.
Honestly man, this isn't splitting hairs, this is equivalent to someone saying that Bitcoin filed for bankruptcy. Confusing a private business with a payment protocol is not an error of category, it's an error of understanding what you're even referring to and demands correction even in a casual conversation. It's perfectly appropriate to point out that Gox is not Bitcoin.
You demanded a citation for "Given the difficulties people have in converting Bitcoins to dollars". I guess it's up in the air whether there is a 'some' or 'all' implied before the people.
/facepalm
I apologize for any damage to your face, but I continue to believe that the intent of the OP was to refer to specific experiences with vendors, not to characterize the protocol.
Ah, so this is what the Bitcoin burglars have up their sleeves. Sell the bitcoins for pennies on the dollar in trade for clean identity information.
They're really going to clean up.
They're really going to clean up.
How is this sustainable? I wonder what they have planned next.
Does anyone else think their logo looks like Simple's?
Has anyone told Carly Rae Jepsen about this? #callmemabey
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Do they accept European credit cards?
Facebook? how 'bout no?
"call_us_maybe"
Now filled with regret.