> Do you thing religious followers, such as Matthew, see god/heaven/etc as being merely a metaphor?
No, I'm not suggesting that. The alternatives to just reporting facts are more than "merely a metaphor".
> works of fiction doesn't purport to either. They might have morals, or subtexts
Disagree - I think they distill patterns from the factual and present them in the form of stories, encoded in the structure of the story. If you're a materialist you might say that the story is less true than the factual manifestations of the patterns, I'd say it's more true; and that it's telling something about the world.
> What's the greater message
We're debating if zero even exists, don't ask me about analysis ;)
I think the disconnect is that you seem to consider religious texts as a dry statements of fact. That doesn't make any sense, they're clearly not that.
Would you say the same about great works of fiction, or old fairy tales that for some reason keep grabbing our attention and we repeat them for generations? That they're just falsehoods because duh, frogs obviously can't talk? Or can they have some deeper meaning? Stating facts is not the only way to describe the world.
It seems to me that your stand is analogous to anarchists' about law and government. Sure, there's a tyrannical aspect that can get out of hand, but it's far from the whole story.
It's interesting how people come and mock without having any framework of understanding the thing. It's almost like a lost language.
Consider air - it is immaterial, the spirit/principle/reason/meaning/pattern of things. It's also the vehicle for speech, and when we stop breathing it we die.
I don't think the quote (or the broader text) means a single concrete thing - it's saying something about how the world works, and should be applicable in multiple ways. Under appreciated rabbit hole!
That would be fair if OO/FP posts had always mentioned that the ideas were borne out of academia and don't necessarily easily apply in other domains, but that ship has sailed..
Huh? Coffee shops optimize for people not bumping into each other and having related items close together, and don't pretend to not know what kind of gear they have.. that's not a terrible analogy to the exact opposite argument.
No, I'm not suggesting that. The alternatives to just reporting facts are more than "merely a metaphor".
> works of fiction doesn't purport to either. They might have morals, or subtexts
Disagree - I think they distill patterns from the factual and present them in the form of stories, encoded in the structure of the story. If you're a materialist you might say that the story is less true than the factual manifestations of the patterns, I'd say it's more true; and that it's telling something about the world.
> What's the greater message
We're debating if zero even exists, don't ask me about analysis ;)