moody__ · HackerTrans

11 miesięcy temudiscuss

After all of this hype this is the best they can do? This is the forefront company (arguable) of the forefront tech and no one can review slides before being shipped out? I think the reason why this has resonated with people is that it gives a "vibe" of not giving a shit, they'll ship whatever next slop generator they want and they expect people to gladly lap it up. Either that or they're using their own dog food and the result is this mess. Do the stats even matter anymore? Is that what they're banking on?

moody__

w zeszłym rokudiscuss

There aren't really union filesystems per se, the plan 9 kernel provides unions through its namespace model. In my opinion part of the reason why the userspace tools can be as nice as they are, are due to the use of file system interfaces and the simplistic syscall API. Could you elaborate more on the issues you see with the use of these?

In regards to using it for a "cloud native" stack, the issue is that people want to run code that isn't designed for Plan 9. You could build whatever backplane type thing you want out of plan 9 but the end goal is still likely to be to run some web app or REST api server. Unless someone does a great deal of effort to port all of those environments that people want (nodejs, modern python, etc) you're going to be stuck using a VM and losing a lot of the benefit.

This feels similar to what Joyent did with lxzones in SmartOS, where the backplane was solaris based but the apps they were running for clients were using Linux. It's hard to make the plan 9 backplane better enough to warrant dealing with integrating the guest and host environment.

moody__

w zeszłym rokudiscuss

Yes you're correct, my apologies. There has been work on this going the other way as well: https://github.com/michaelforney/wl9. But there's still a lot more than can be done. There are vague plans to test the waters implementing something like this in to our vmx(1).

moody__

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Could you expand more on what you would like out of an "enterprise Plan 9"?

moody__

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This has been done already: https://github.com/aiju/jsdrawterm

moody__

w zeszłym rokudiscuss

Sure, but the security concerns of that I feel are much less concerning than having multiple domain names with the same visual appearance that point to different servers. That has immediate impact for things like phishing whereas lookalike path or query portions would at least ensure you are still connecting to the server that you think you are.

moody__

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As the sibling comment has mentioned Unicode in DNS uses a punycode encoding but even further then that the standard specifies that the Unicode data must be normalized to NFC[0] before being converted to punycode. This means that your second example (decomposed e with combining acute accent vs the composed variant) is not a valid concern. The Cyrillic one is however.

[0] https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5891 § 4.1 "By the time a string enters the IDNA registration process as described in this specification, it MUST be in Unicode and in Normalization Form C"

moody__

w zeszłym rokudiscuss

Normalization implementations must not strip variation selectors by definition. The "normal" part of normalization means to convert a string into either consistently decomposed unicode, or composed unicode. ie U+00DC vs U+0055 + U+0308. However this decomposition mapping is also used (maybe more like abused) for converting certain "legacy" code points to non-legacy code points. There does not exist a rune which decomposes to variant selectors (and thus these variant selectors do not compose into anything) so normalization must not alter or strip them.

source: I've implemented Unicode normalization from scratch

moody__

2 lata temudiscuss

I write a lot of code for 9front within 9front, all of which is done through the sam editor. While sam does have a powerful general purpose editing language, it doesn't do syntax highlighting or any sort of language aware tooling (LSPs, jump to def, autocomplete, whatever). However I didn't start off with this, I'm not too old (in the second half of my 20s now) so I did take the tour through Java IDE's, tricked out vim configs and vs code as I was learning how to program. However when I moved to working on 9front I actually felt like the lack of these features made it easier for me to focus.

I like to think of code as not that much different than prose, they are both strings of text for communicating information, typically in a fashion of one thing after the other. I think most people would find syntax highlighting for prose to be more annoying than not (outside of perhaps seeing grammar rules for learning). Once I tried reading and writing code without syntax highlighting I found that it encouraged me to actually read and digest code instead of just skimming it. Compare it to reading prose with and without certain subsections highlighted.

Autocomplete strikes me as optimizing the wrong end of the problem. When I'm writing code I generally am spending a lot more time thinking about the problem space or considering possible implementations then I am having my fingers on the keyboard actively typing it out. In general I think the more you're able to think carefully about code in general the smaller it gets, so I find it hard to believe that by making it easier to quickly dump large amounts of text on the screen you're really gaining much. I think there should be a larger focus on reading and understanding code than writing it.

Stuff like code search is quite nice, and even in 9front we do have some scripts and tooling built-in to help us do that. We have programs like 'Bfn' which can search for a function and send it to your text editor, file names with line numbers can also be quickly sent to the editor as well. I think advancements in tooling that helps people move around in code are generally great, the time spent searching for something is generally not something I enjoy. This was perhaps the nicest part of LSPs in my experience. However I do also think that if you make it quite easy to jump around to lots of different files there is less of an incentive to carefully consider how you're laying out your code. How 9front works where there is some tooling to reduce the monotony but not enough to make it easy to traverse a couple million line java project strikes a nice balance for me.

moody__

3 lata temudiscuss

Working on plan 9 (9front) has gotten me two different jobs now. Not through companies wanting to work with Plan 9 specifically, but from members of the community who happened to have open spots at their company and were familiar with my work. This has the side effect of working with folks that have similar technical ideas in my dayjob, which is a nice bonus.

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