Tell HN: We're bringing back the “Work at a Startup” event on Saturday July 28
27 comments
I would be so highly interested to know the internal YC discussion and analysis about two main points mentioned in that previous thread you discussed, specifically:
- moving away from open-plan offices to something that allows most works hours on most days to have a high degree of quiet & privacy
- addressing the many points about how start-up compensation, even when discounting equity risks for unsuccessful outcomes or low exits, is just not competitive, even though offsetting factors like working on interesting projects, flexible work/life policies, etc., are generally no worse in traditional corps than start-ups, and quite often much better.
Any concrete feedback about the analysis that came from these points would be fantastic.
I think it’s very exciting to hear that YC is directly discussing these things!
- moving away from open-plan offices to something that allows most works hours on most days to have a high degree of quiet & privacy
- addressing the many points about how start-up compensation, even when discounting equity risks for unsuccessful outcomes or low exits, is just not competitive, even though offsetting factors like working on interesting projects, flexible work/life policies, etc., are generally no worse in traditional corps than start-ups, and quite often much better.
Any concrete feedback about the analysis that came from these points would be fantastic.
I think it’s very exciting to hear that YC is directly discussing these things!
Yes, that is what we're working on.
While it doesn't address the larger point about compensation (we're working on that), one thought about compensation specific to this event, is that the companies coming to the Expo are at a wide range of funding levels and sizes. Some of them would probably not even be considered "startups" by most people, like Instacart and Doordash, which are both hundreds of people. Many of them do already offer highly competitive compensation; so I would not let this be a deal-breaker for considering coming to the event.
While it doesn't address the larger point about compensation (we're working on that), one thought about compensation specific to this event, is that the companies coming to the Expo are at a wide range of funding levels and sizes. Some of them would probably not even be considered "startups" by most people, like Instacart and Doordash, which are both hundreds of people. Many of them do already offer highly competitive compensation; so I would not let this be a deal-breaker for considering coming to the event.
I recall the event in 2012. It was interesting. Justin.tv basically was really looking for someone to help with the onerous task of operations -- but the presenter was upfront about such. I recall another startup, can't recall the name, where phrases like "we are a family", "we stay late to meet with our customers" etc were thrown around. Multiple people around me were shaking their head.
Both were honest and up front, but trying to play up the fact that "we live to work" played about as well as a piano falling off a crane onto Wiley Coyote.
Both were honest and up front, but trying to play up the fact that "we live to work" played about as well as a piano falling off a crane onto Wiley Coyote.
> Both were honest and up front, but trying to play up the fact that "we live to work" played about as well as a piano falling off a crane onto Wiley Coyote.
I'd say the honesty is merely the minimum required level of courtesy and respect. The reaction is understandable, especially considering that, for example, by then JTV was 5 years old. If ops is truly still onerous by that point, then candidates would be right to suspect there's something awry with management.
I do hope that this is something that's being addressed by YC, that some founders have the expectation of their early (and sometimes not so early) employees of having the same loyalty or buy-in as they do. If your entire employee option pool is 10%, it's not reasonable to ask even employee #1 for that.
I'd say the honesty is merely the minimum required level of courtesy and respect. The reaction is understandable, especially considering that, for example, by then JTV was 5 years old. If ops is truly still onerous by that point, then candidates would be right to suspect there's something awry with management.
I do hope that this is something that's being addressed by YC, that some founders have the expectation of their early (and sometimes not so early) employees of having the same loyalty or buy-in as they do. If your entire employee option pool is 10%, it's not reasonable to ask even employee #1 for that.
I'm working for one of few >10b unicorns. $250k salary. $50k bonus. $1.3m stock with annual refreshers. I only have 7 years of experience and am a regular client developer.
I really want to be a part of a start up and learn things to get ready start to my own company at some point but all offers I got from startups can only make sense if they become Facebook.
I really want to be a part of a start up and learn things to get ready start to my own company at some point but all offers I got from startups can only make sense if they become Facebook.
Golden handcuffed!
Which company do you work for?
I appreciate the work that you place into this. But again, what exactly are the startups you with* looking for? If they are hurting for talent wouldn't they take more risk in acquiring the talent just like they are an unknown company with a 90% failure rate?
You must have a rough idea of what the startups are talking about from their point of view. Just like you are trying to bring clarity into the startups maybe you could provide clarity into the recruiting/hiring.
*edit
You must have a rough idea of what the startups are talking about from their point of view. Just like you are trying to bring clarity into the startups maybe you could provide clarity into the recruiting/hiring.
*edit
There's a whole range. Companies are hiring for new grad software engineers up to senior engineers and CTOs. There are also many roles, from full-stack web to back-end and data science and many tech stacks.
I'm particularly excited by how many companies are hiring for deep-tech roles like machine learning, computer vision, and embedded programming for hardware.
I'm particularly excited by how many companies are hiring for deep-tech roles like machine learning, computer vision, and embedded programming for hardware.
Thanks for the quick response. I guess I’ll try to be more specific. What are they specifically looking for and how are they measuring that?
Granted, everyone wants the “smart, motivated” + some other synonym for a great person. But are they looking only at c.s grads from surrounding Bay Area schools/Ex-Google and the like?
Granted, everyone wants the “smart, motivated” + some other synonym for a great person. But are they looking only at c.s grads from surrounding Bay Area schools/Ex-Google and the like?
Something I've learned from working with a lot of YC companies, is that while they certainly all want people who are "smart and motivated", they measure and define it quite differently.
It sounds like your concern is whether companies are only looking for c.s. grads from brand name schools and companies, and I can specifically vouch for that not being the case. Depending on the company, they're likely to value open source contributions, independent projects you've built that are interesting, startups you've started or worked at, impressive technical work you've done at any company, and how candidates do on their own technical interviews (which vary greatly in substance), among many other factors.
It sounds like your concern is whether companies are only looking for c.s. grads from brand name schools and companies, and I can specifically vouch for that not being the case. Depending on the company, they're likely to value open source contributions, independent projects you've built that are interesting, startups you've started or worked at, impressive technical work you've done at any company, and how candidates do on their own technical interviews (which vary greatly in substance), among many other factors.
> software engineers
Is there any timeline on lifting that exclusivity?
Is there any timeline on lifting that exclusivity?
Honestly, I don't know yet. Our timeline is "when it's working really well for software engineers", so it's hard to judge.
"Really well" strikes me as a remarkably high standard.
If the focus is primarily on early employees, then I can see how that makes sense.
For later stage startups, wouldn't YC be concerned with encouraging or supporting monocultures, or otherwise tipping the scales in favor of more software expertise, even if the company is more hardware (or ops or biotech or whatever) heavy?
If the focus is primarily on early employees, then I can see how that makes sense.
For later stage startups, wouldn't YC be concerned with encouraging or supporting monocultures, or otherwise tipping the scales in favor of more software expertise, even if the company is more hardware (or ops or biotech or whatever) heavy?
That's an interesting point. At the moment, I wouldn't give ourselves enough credit to think we can meaningfully tip the scales in that way, but I could see how that could happen down the road.
Out of curiosity, what role would you be looking for?
Out of curiosity, what role would you be looking for?
> I wouldn't give ourselves enough credit to think we can meaningfully tip the scales in that way
I would hope that would be the whole point of such a project! (To reduce hiring friction enough to be able to tip the scales, not actually tip them)
> what role would you be looking for?
Personally, my specialty is ops (fka sysadmin). I rarely see a startup truly needing a dedicated someone-like-me until well after they've hired all their early employees.
I would hope that would be the whole point of such a project! (To reduce hiring friction enough to be able to tip the scales, not actually tip them)
> what role would you be looking for?
Personally, my specialty is ops (fka sysadmin). I rarely see a startup truly needing a dedicated someone-like-me until well after they've hired all their early employees.
Actually, I think you should give Work at a Startup a try now. We have a category for ops already, as it was close to enough software engineering that we thought we'd get some amount of overlap in interest. It doesn't have quite as much activity as the core software engineering roles, but still some. Feel free to email me (in my profile) and let me know how it goes if you try it.
The first thing it still asks is:
>Are you looking for a software engineering position?
Answering "No" hides the "Continue" button. If you hadn't told me otherwise here, I would have had no idea you were including Ops.
I'll try "Yes" and provide more detailed feedback in e-mail.
>Are you looking for a software engineering position?
Answering "No" hides the "Continue" button. If you hadn't told me otherwise here, I would have had no idea you were including Ops.
I'll try "Yes" and provide more detailed feedback in e-mail.
Equivalent in London: https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com/
Looks like they've dropped their emphasis on working at a startup, which was SMR's mission last time I checked. But I imagine there'll be some there?
Looks like they've dropped their emphasis on working at a startup, which was SMR's mission last time I checked. But I imagine there'll be some there?
In general, what type/stage of startups would fresh grads (with internship experience) fit in best?
Based on the typical technical skills needed: almost nowhere.
Based on the typical compensation and culture: you describe the kind of employee they target.
And that is in a nutshell exactly what all the comments in the previous thread distill down to.
Based on the typical compensation and culture: you describe the kind of employee they target.
And that is in a nutshell exactly what all the comments in the previous thread distill down to.
Later stage in general. The earlier the company, the less structure or resources available for the support and mentorship needed for new grads. Exceptions always exist though.
Really, all sizes. There are about 50 companies in the directory now that are hiring new grads. The median size is 10 people; there are a bunch in the 2-3 person range and a bunch in the 100+ person range.
If you fill out a Work at a Startup profile, we'll automatically show you a list in the directory with just the companies hiring new grads.
If you fill out a Work at a Startup profile, we'll automatically show you a list in the directory with just the companies hiring new grads.
Imho underpaid, heavily overworked, high chance startup fails. I don't think it's worth it.
I’m working at my first startup. I really hope it’s my last one. Best wishes to those who want to live the dream!
On Saturday July 28, we'll host our third Work at a Startup Expo: https://workatastartup.com/expo. We'll begin with a talk answering the most common questions about working at a startup. Then we'll have a series of rapid-fire presentations by 35 YC companies currently hiring engineers. After the event, we'll have an open house where you can talk one-on-one with the founders of any company that interested you.
New this time: we'll have a hardware demo area where companies building physical products can show them off. YC has more hardware companies than ever now, building everything from satellites to industrial robots.
For those not in the Bay Area, we will live stream all the videos, and if people are interested we can have an ongoing HN thread to discuss them as well.
If you're interested in attending, please apply at https://workatastartup.com/expo. Any questions or ideas, please comment below!
Links to previous discussions:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17286939
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15916350
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3676578
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1346103
p.s. That recent thread about the pros and cons of working at a startup was one of the best discussions I've ever seen on Hacker News. I went through it carefully, tried to make sure that every comment got attention, and compiled a list of the main points, which got a thorough discussion at the last YC partner meeting. We're going to develop some substantive programs in response. It will take some time to responsibly make changes that affect the whole ecosystem, but we're going to work hard on it; it's an opportunity to make things better for everyone. Please stay tuned!