Unlike Babies, the Best Managers Come with Instructions(torch.io)
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Unlike Babies, the Best Managers Come with Instructions
https://torch.io/unlike-babies-the-best-managers-come-with-instructions/?hss_channel=tw-983379969773420544
78 comments
I think you make some very good points, but I think there's still some value in the manager README even if it's flawed.
It would be great to have both IMHO.
I'm thought experimenting on also having a README written by direct reports that the boss doesn't get to see (so people could be more honest). I'm guessing it would quickly leak to the boss anyway, or someone trying to score points with the boss would just whitewash it. Perhaps only the person who wrote something could edit it, so you get lots of perspectives?
Would be an interesting experiment tho.
I'm thought experimenting on also having a README written by direct reports that the boss doesn't get to see (so people could be more honest). I'm guessing it would quickly leak to the boss anyway, or someone trying to score points with the boss would just whitewash it. Perhaps only the person who wrote something could edit it, so you get lots of perspectives?
Would be an interesting experiment tho.
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> Why would you give employees a guide to their manager when you could give them an "Employee README" that is focused on the new employee?
Why not do both? "Hey folks, here's my README, I'd encourage you to write something similar and share it with everybody."
Why not do both? "Hey folks, here's my README, I'd encourage you to write something similar and share it with everybody."
> Why not do both? "Hey folks, here's my README, I'd encourage you to write something similar and share it with everybody."
When it comes to team building, I think it's much more valuable to say "this is how we operate" instead of having everyone write down "this is how I operate". The former is a mutual guidebook for everyone to work together, while the latter feels like an edict that everyone else needs to work around you.
When it comes to team building, I think it's much more valuable to say "this is how we operate" instead of having everyone write down "this is how I operate". The former is a mutual guidebook for everyone to work together, while the latter feels like an edict that everyone else needs to work around you.
How do you handle the case where two people operate differently but need to interoperate?
De-escalate any tension between the two people
Check for any overtly abusive behavior that requires correction. Usually rare, but worth checking.
Provide basic coaching and suggestions for working together in a healthy manner.
And most importantly: Let them know that they're expected to figure out how to operate together on their own like professionals. Managers can't be mediators for every impedance mismatch between employees.
Check for any overtly abusive behavior that requires correction. Usually rare, but worth checking.
Provide basic coaching and suggestions for working together in a healthy manner.
And most importantly: Let them know that they're expected to figure out how to operate together on their own like professionals. Managers can't be mediators for every impedance mismatch between employees.
What on Earth can/should an employee write other than "I'll come in when expected and do my work to the best of my abilities while being professional?"
I'm certainly not writing anything about my personal life because that's personal and, quite frankly, none of your business. I have a tragic backstory that I don't want to share with coworkers. It's my job to overcome my past and be effective and productive at work, not everyone else's job to accommodate any unexpected or unprofessional behavior, etc.
I'm certainly not writing anything about my personal life because that's personal and, quite frankly, none of your business. I have a tragic backstory that I don't want to share with coworkers. It's my job to overcome my past and be effective and productive at work, not everyone else's job to accommodate any unexpected or unprofessional behavior, etc.
There's a lot more to working relationships than "I'll come in when expected and do my work to the best of my abilities while being professional".
There's a whole host of instruments that more mature companies use to uncover the different working styles and professional psychologies of employees. E.g. knowing that one colleague wants just the facts and isn't interested in the back-story whereas another wants lots of context can be very useful and ultimately help one become more effective professionally.
There's a whole host of instruments that more mature companies use to uncover the different working styles and professional psychologies of employees. E.g. knowing that one colleague wants just the facts and isn't interested in the back-story whereas another wants lots of context can be very useful and ultimately help one become more effective professionally.
There's a great blog post that I found by Camille Fournier that touches on things that you've mentioned https://medium.com/@skamille/i-hate-manager-readmes-20a0dd9a..., but I think something of note is at the end on how it can be used as a self-exercise for the manager.
tl;dr, Manager README's are more for the manager than the direct report. It's a great exercise in introspection if kept private and not used as something codified for employees to follow.
tl;dr, Manager README's are more for the manager than the direct report. It's a great exercise in introspection if kept private and not used as something codified for employees to follow.
IMO the best managers learn to change their behaviors based on each report's needs and doesn't request that their reports conform to the manager's needs.
I had to read this sentence twice before understanding that a "report" is a person. Maybe that has become accepted terminology in some circles. I hope not. It's terribly dehumanizing.
It's standard terminology and has been standard terminology across the board for my two plus decades in the workforce. It's not dehumanizing.
It's usually written as "direct report" to differentiate from your boss's boss, who you indirectly report to.
From the OED:
noun: report; plural noun: reports
4.an employee who is supervised by another employee.
It's usually written as "direct report" to differentiate from your boss's boss, who you indirectly report to.
From the OED:
noun: report; plural noun: reports
4.an employee who is supervised by another employee.
It's better than "resource" at least.
What word would you prefer to use for "person whom a manager manages"? If one just uses "person" it is unclear if it's any arbitrary person or a person under a manager's umbrella
“Directs” is another common word I hear used by managers.
Which makes sense as the formal phrase is "direct report".
While it was unintentional in my original post, "report" seems to work better than "direct" here as IMO my statement holds for a manager's indirect reports as well and thus "report" covers both direct and indirect. But now I'm just amusing myself with word games :)
While it was unintentional in my original post, "report" seems to work better than "direct" here as IMO my statement holds for a manager's indirect reports as well and thus "report" covers both direct and indirect. But now I'm just amusing myself with word games :)
Yes, as in direct _report_.
I've probably seen 'subordinate' used in the same contexts. 'managee' is awful but is at least analogous to 'employer/employee'.
"Subordinate" seems even worse to me. That institutionalizes the power differential and the idea that managers are "above" their direct reports.
But they are. Like, my manager and I have a good relationship that is usually highly collaborative, but at the end of the day, I'm judged based on doing the things he wants me to do. Why shouldn't we recognize the power differential? It clearly exists.
So I've had perhaps unusual work experience in that when I've worked for other companies it's been either small startups or Google in its engineer-driven growth phase and the rest of my working life has been on my own startups, but I've found that the best managers think of themselves as facilitators. Their job is to ensure that 1) you're working on projects where your success will lead to the company's success; 2) you're happy; 3) your successes are visible to their management so you get promoted and 4) you don't have any roadblocks in your way. That and to handle the various nitty-gritty administrativa like managing vacation time; family emergencies; conflicts between team members; and performance management.
In companies where management has to explicitly direct the activity of their employees, something has gone seriously wrong. Either the company is not working on something useful to the market and so management is trying to motivate employees to do something pointless anyway; or the company's vision & strategy hasn't been successfully communicated by the CEO so that everybody knows where they fit in; or a manager on a power-trip was promoted into the position; or my values don't align with the company's and I'd be better off elsewhere. In any of those cases the answer is to leave (or if it's my company, fix the problems before hiring more people) and find a company that there's actually a reason to work for. You have one career and there are ~20 million businesses in America to work for (and you can always start your own if no suitable one exists); make it count.
In companies where management has to explicitly direct the activity of their employees, something has gone seriously wrong. Either the company is not working on something useful to the market and so management is trying to motivate employees to do something pointless anyway; or the company's vision & strategy hasn't been successfully communicated by the CEO so that everybody knows where they fit in; or a manager on a power-trip was promoted into the position; or my values don't align with the company's and I'd be better off elsewhere. In any of those cases the answer is to leave (or if it's my company, fix the problems before hiring more people) and find a company that there's actually a reason to work for. You have one career and there are ~20 million businesses in America to work for (and you can always start your own if no suitable one exists); make it count.
I don't really disagree with this, but I don't think it addresses my point.
When values are in alignment, the power imbalance shouldn't matter much. But when there are disagreements within the team, the manager is the one who defines the rules of conflict resolution, or in extreme cases decides the result.
When values are out of alignment vertically the report is left with 3 options: adapt, escalate further, or leave.
The person you escalate to has more power, otherwise it would be pointless to escalate to them. Ignoring that fact seems silly.
When values are in alignment, the power imbalance shouldn't matter much. But when there are disagreements within the team, the manager is the one who defines the rules of conflict resolution, or in extreme cases decides the result.
When values are out of alignment vertically the report is left with 3 options: adapt, escalate further, or leave.
The person you escalate to has more power, otherwise it would be pointless to escalate to them. Ignoring that fact seems silly.
Yes, you might as well use "underling" or "minion".
I strongly believe the language we use influences how we think about things and situations. I use the word “people” all the time, even if it means a longer sentence. Being slightly more efficient in expressing my relationship to a person that works for me is not worth the effect of being called a report/resource/direct.
It's not really though, it's just a description of a formal relationship within the business context.
I'm a manager, I report to someone (my manager, who also reports to someone) and likewise I've people who report to me (my reports).
It doesn't change that we're all people, with our own quirks, personalities and emotions.
I'm a manager, I report to someone (my manager, who also reports to someone) and likewise I've people who report to me (my reports).
It doesn't change that we're all people, with our own quirks, personalities and emotions.
Unpopular opinion:
In Silicon Valley, people managers can easily be a waste of time and money, and can cause unnecessary drama on your team. Think about the kind of so-called developer who would rather manage people than write code.
We still need founders, executives, directors, advisors, etc. don't get me wrong. But has anyone ever come across an engineering manager worth their salt? Why did we start deploying people managers en masse to engineering teams? I miss the holy trinity setup: Dev, designer, PM. It worked well IMO.
Our industry is shooting itself in the foot with Engineering Managers. The ones I've come across are self-obsessed, as evidenced in these cringeworthy READMEs and this article that was written.
In Silicon Valley, people managers can easily be a waste of time and money, and can cause unnecessary drama on your team. Think about the kind of so-called developer who would rather manage people than write code.
We still need founders, executives, directors, advisors, etc. don't get me wrong. But has anyone ever come across an engineering manager worth their salt? Why did we start deploying people managers en masse to engineering teams? I miss the holy trinity setup: Dev, designer, PM. It worked well IMO.
Our industry is shooting itself in the foot with Engineering Managers. The ones I've come across are self-obsessed, as evidenced in these cringeworthy READMEs and this article that was written.
Your message really needs context otherwise it's just a random rant.
BTW no-one is deploying managers out of thin air. At least not in startups. What I can often see instead is that someone in the higher-ups needs OKRs, and he also wants to know your performance (and also others' on the team) so that he can decide who deserves a salary raise, and he would like to read a summary report about the highest priority project's progress during last week. Plus he would like someone to represent the team's technical standpoint next week when meeting a prospective client, plus he needs someone who goes around the team and asks what bothers them and what would the team like to see changed in their work environment, plus he also needs someone who hires new team members, plus he would also like to organize the mentoring of the junior members and would like to see someone be involved in the product roadmap discussions from the engineering side to make strategic decisions, plus he wants to build a new team and he wants to understand who would be the best candidate to participate in it, etc. The list goes on and on.
So who will do all these things? Most devs absolutely hate doing these things because it's not technical enough for their fastidious taste. Designers and PMs OTOH have no technical knowledge to make strategic engineering decisions on higher level than the individual level (and not even on the individual level many times).
BTW no-one is deploying managers out of thin air. At least not in startups. What I can often see instead is that someone in the higher-ups needs OKRs, and he also wants to know your performance (and also others' on the team) so that he can decide who deserves a salary raise, and he would like to read a summary report about the highest priority project's progress during last week. Plus he would like someone to represent the team's technical standpoint next week when meeting a prospective client, plus he needs someone who goes around the team and asks what bothers them and what would the team like to see changed in their work environment, plus he also needs someone who hires new team members, plus he would also like to organize the mentoring of the junior members and would like to see someone be involved in the product roadmap discussions from the engineering side to make strategic decisions, plus he wants to build a new team and he wants to understand who would be the best candidate to participate in it, etc. The list goes on and on.
So who will do all these things? Most devs absolutely hate doing these things because it's not technical enough for their fastidious taste. Designers and PMs OTOH have no technical knowledge to make strategic engineering decisions on higher level than the individual level (and not even on the individual level many times).
Without (competent) engineering leadership.
- Whos going to push back and sales and marketing for harassing you directly or taking direct blame for failures?
- Who will represent the engineering team in leadship meetings to make sure policies/decisions are made with their needs in mind?
- Who's going to fight for your raises and promotions?
- Who's going to make sure that there is budget for what engineering needs to do and keeps a proper record to keep finance happy?
Please thing about it... any company that grows to 30-50 people (even startups) need to have management and processes that eventually lead to (even unintentional) politics. The other departments will have leaders/managers defending/supporting them... its foolish to not understand or respect competent leaders.
- Whos going to push back and sales and marketing for harassing you directly or taking direct blame for failures?
- Who will represent the engineering team in leadship meetings to make sure policies/decisions are made with their needs in mind?
- Who's going to fight for your raises and promotions?
- Who's going to make sure that there is budget for what engineering needs to do and keeps a proper record to keep finance happy?
Please thing about it... any company that grows to 30-50 people (even startups) need to have management and processes that eventually lead to (even unintentional) politics. The other departments will have leaders/managers defending/supporting them... its foolish to not understand or respect competent leaders.
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Here are the other sides of that coin, to balance out your utopian vision of management:
- Who has the unchecked authority to blame others for their mistakes?
- Who will take direct credit for the work of others?
- Who's going to write a bad performance review of someone they don't like that much?
It goes both ways!
- Who has the unchecked authority to blame others for their mistakes?
- Who will take direct credit for the work of others?
- Who's going to write a bad performance review of someone they don't like that much?
It goes both ways!
Easy to answer
>Who has the unchecked authority to blame others for their mistakes?
No one, its done by committee and/or senior leadership, the team/department with no seat at the table is always at a disadvantage.
>Who will take direct credit for the work of others?
A managers job is to distribute credit and shield blame/failure. This may sound generic but its true... a managers true strength/power/greatness or what ever other BS comes from the strength of their reports. Its extremely short sited to not pass on credit and grow those under you.
>Who's going to write a bad performance review of someone they don't like that much?
A good manager tries to be very objective and doesn't bring personal opinion into reviewing performance. I have had people who I did not like personally who i brought though multiple jobs... good managers respect effective people not people they can get a drink with after work.
No one, its done by committee and/or senior leadership, the team/department with no seat at the table is always at a disadvantage.
>Who will take direct credit for the work of others?
A managers job is to distribute credit and shield blame/failure. This may sound generic but its true... a managers true strength/power/greatness or what ever other BS comes from the strength of their reports. Its extremely short sited to not pass on credit and grow those under you.
>Who's going to write a bad performance review of someone they don't like that much?
A good manager tries to be very objective and doesn't bring personal opinion into reviewing performance. I have had people who I did not like personally who i brought though multiple jobs... good managers respect effective people not people they can get a drink with after work.
The examples that you've given are political (represent, push back, take blame, fight), except for the example of keeping records (which is management).
Managements role, technical leadership role and politician role are different roles. The required skill sets and experience are different. The outcome of grabbing a wrong role is usually poor. Not confusing politician, technical leader and manager roles is probably a good idea to improve outcomes. As checking for required experience, to take the role.
Managements role, technical leadership role and politician role are different roles. The required skill sets and experience are different. The outcome of grabbing a wrong role is usually poor. Not confusing politician, technical leader and manager roles is probably a good idea to improve outcomes. As checking for required experience, to take the role.
Management is full of politics... sorry but its true. A true leader must have all the skills needed to properly benefit and support the team.
You look at my examples as negatives... its the wrong way to look at it... thoes other managers of other departments? Are the bad people? No... but they have a job and responsibility to represent their departments and do from their point of view whats best for their team and the company.
I feel like there is a segment of workers in engineering has this weird self damaging hatred for leaders/managers other departments do not have... then thoes same people get pissed when they dont have a leader and their department is glossed over because no one represents them when/where some of the most important decisions are made.
You look at my examples as negatives... its the wrong way to look at it... thoes other managers of other departments? Are the bad people? No... but they have a job and responsibility to represent their departments and do from their point of view whats best for their team and the company.
I feel like there is a segment of workers in engineering has this weird self damaging hatred for leaders/managers other departments do not have... then thoes same people get pissed when they dont have a leader and their department is glossed over because no one represents them when/where some of the most important decisions are made.
Notice, there was nothing said about roles being bad. There was nothing said about impossibility of combining multiple roles.
I'm curious what a non-political people manager role would look like. IME, people managers are almost solely political: they mediate conflict and make strategic long term decisions based on conflicting priorities.
There are probably examples (I can think of mentorship), but that would not be common.
On "strategic long term decisions", I think this needs clarification. There are many areas in which such decisions can be made.
To give an example, think of a flying airplane. Would you give a power to make "strategic long term decisions" regarding the flight to someone who bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as a pilot? Or to someone who hadn't done it, but is an excellent politician, people's manager and could mediate conflict well?
To give another example, if a conflict between passengers and crew had happened onboard of a flying airplane. Would you prefer a pilot (say, with no political or mediation skills) to stop flying the airplane and engage into the conflict? Or would you prefer a professional people's manager and mediator to step in?
On "strategic long term decisions", I think this needs clarification. There are many areas in which such decisions can be made.
To give an example, think of a flying airplane. Would you give a power to make "strategic long term decisions" regarding the flight to someone who bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as a pilot? Or to someone who hadn't done it, but is an excellent politician, people's manager and could mediate conflict well?
To give another example, if a conflict between passengers and crew had happened onboard of a flying airplane. Would you prefer a pilot (say, with no political or mediation skills) to stop flying the airplane and engage into the conflict? Or would you prefer a professional people's manager and mediator to step in?
At least where I work, everyone, including ICs is responsible for mentoring new and less senior co-workers.
> To give an example, think of a flying airplane. Would you give a power to make "strategic long term decisions" regarding the flight to someone who bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as a pilot? Or to someone who hadn't done it, but is an excellent politician, people's manager and could mediate conflict well?
I don't think this analogy works. The manager decides which routes to fly and ultimately who flies which ones. Presumably some routes are preferable, and there are competing priorities between routes. So the manager picks the routes to fly, addressing external conflict, and then alloctes people to routes, handling any internal conflict.
The manager isn't on the plane. The rest of your comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
> To give an example, think of a flying airplane. Would you give a power to make "strategic long term decisions" regarding the flight to someone who bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as a pilot? Or to someone who hadn't done it, but is an excellent politician, people's manager and could mediate conflict well?
I don't think this analogy works. The manager decides which routes to fly and ultimately who flies which ones. Presumably some routes are preferable, and there are competing priorities between routes. So the manager picks the routes to fly, addressing external conflict, and then alloctes people to routes, handling any internal conflict.
The manager isn't on the plane. The rest of your comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
You've asked for example of management that doesn't involve politics, I've given mentoring. It's apolitical. There's no reason a whole company couldn't work in that style. There are other styles and other cultures around, different from a style common to big corporations in the states. I'd guess in Japan corporate world you probably can find unique styles that are also apolitical. I'm not sure.
I think your analogy works. And it seems that we agree, it'd be stupid for a manager without pilot's training and expert knowledge to make or impact "strategic long term decisions" that impact the flight in a flying airplane. And we likely agree that interference of a manager (who is used to exercise power) will likely make negative impact on rational expert decisions of a pilot.
Regarding "strategic long term decisions" outside the airplane - we can just look at the recent example of Boeing debacle with 737 MAX. Again, a good question would be - would the situation be better, if the company board had people that had bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as pilots?
I think your analogy works. And it seems that we agree, it'd be stupid for a manager without pilot's training and expert knowledge to make or impact "strategic long term decisions" that impact the flight in a flying airplane. And we likely agree that interference of a manager (who is used to exercise power) will likely make negative impact on rational expert decisions of a pilot.
Regarding "strategic long term decisions" outside the airplane - we can just look at the recent example of Boeing debacle with 737 MAX. Again, a good question would be - would the situation be better, if the company board had people that had bothered to go to flight school, ground school and had been certified as pilots?
> You've asked for example of management that doesn't involve politics
No, I asked for an example of a management role that was apolitical. There are certainly responsibilities that managers have that aren't political, but someone claimed that people, political, and technical management were different. So I'm intrigued by the idea of a people manager who doesn't handle any political problems. My point is that by virtue of being in charge of people, political arguments become unavoidable.
As for your Boeing example, I fail to see what this has to do with managers having to address political issues in the company. It seems like you're having a conversation about how managers should have been ICs at one point which while an interesting discussion, is completely unrelated to anything I've said.
No, I asked for an example of a management role that was apolitical. There are certainly responsibilities that managers have that aren't political, but someone claimed that people, political, and technical management were different. So I'm intrigued by the idea of a people manager who doesn't handle any political problems. My point is that by virtue of being in charge of people, political arguments become unavoidable.
As for your Boeing example, I fail to see what this has to do with managers having to address political issues in the company. It seems like you're having a conversation about how managers should have been ICs at one point which while an interesting discussion, is completely unrelated to anything I've said.
I've given example of a management style that seem to be apolitical - mentorship. I don't see why a whole company can't be built with such style. Political problems in that case would be implicitly handled by company culture. Another example could be a family run business, in which family relationships could dominate, rather than politics. I think there are maybe other examples.
Can you give an example of unavoidable political problem that people manager unavoidably has to handle?
Can you give an example of unavoidable political problem that people manager unavoidably has to handle?
> Can you give an example of unavoidable political problem that people manager unavoidably has to handle?
- Two of your reports want to work on the same project, perhaps because it will look good. There's only enough work for one of them
- The team fails to meet an objective. This needs to be addressed, somehow
> Political problems in that case would be implicitly handled by company culture
Someone(s) still need to make the decisions that align with the culture. Those people are making political decisions, they just have values that help guide the decisions.
- Two of your reports want to work on the same project, perhaps because it will look good. There's only enough work for one of them
- The team fails to meet an objective. This needs to be addressed, somehow
> Political problems in that case would be implicitly handled by company culture
Someone(s) still need to make the decisions that align with the culture. Those people are making political decisions, they just have values that help guide the decisions.
I see. Well, when "reports are attempting to get projects because it would look good", that sounds like "manipulation for short-term personal gain". Not good.
I agree, this is a political problem. But it doesn't seem to be unavoidable. Perhaps, increase rewards for long-term gains for the company and remove rewards for short-term personal gains? It just wouldn't happen then?
Team failing to meet the objective. I don't see how this is a political problem.
I agree, this is a political problem. But it doesn't seem to be unavoidable. Perhaps, increase rewards for long-term gains for the company and remove rewards for short-term personal gains? It just wouldn't happen then?
Team failing to meet the objective. I don't see how this is a political problem.
> But it doesn't seem to be unavoidable.
You've just described a way of dealing with the issue when it arises: paying the person working on the less sexy project more. This may sometimes be a tool the manager can use, but it isn't always an option. So presume you don't have this tool, or the value of the project is larger than the value of the compensation you can provide.
> It just wouldn't happen then?
You're presuming that the company can perfectly reward people for work, and that every employee believes that they'll be rewarded optimally for work in the company's best interest. I've yet to encounter a company that can accurately reward employees for their performance, and because of that, I've yet to find a company where the employees believe that their performance will be perfectly fairly rated. If you can fix this problem, I'll buy your product.
You've just described a way of dealing with the issue when it arises: paying the person working on the less sexy project more. This may sometimes be a tool the manager can use, but it isn't always an option. So presume you don't have this tool, or the value of the project is larger than the value of the compensation you can provide.
> It just wouldn't happen then?
You're presuming that the company can perfectly reward people for work, and that every employee believes that they'll be rewarded optimally for work in the company's best interest. I've yet to encounter a company that can accurately reward employees for their performance, and because of that, I've yet to find a company where the employees believe that their performance will be perfectly fairly rated. If you can fix this problem, I'll buy your product.
I certainly have met engineering managers worth their salt.
The best place to observe the need for management is in teams like, 20 relatively inexperienced engineers, all reporting to a single manager. I have never seen a team like this that is operating at 100% of the engineers’ capabilities. People end up wasting time on disagreements, building things that end up not needed, jumping from emergency to emergency, not using best practices, all sorts of things.
If you find a good manager and split those people into two teams of 10 engineers, that change will make that team much more productive.
The best place to observe the need for management is in teams like, 20 relatively inexperienced engineers, all reporting to a single manager. I have never seen a team like this that is operating at 100% of the engineers’ capabilities. People end up wasting time on disagreements, building things that end up not needed, jumping from emergency to emergency, not using best practices, all sorts of things.
If you find a good manager and split those people into two teams of 10 engineers, that change will make that team much more productive.
If you are good at bullshitting but not at tech stuff or at managing, then you want to expand the amount of bullshit in the company because this makes it much easier for you to survive.
When almost everyone bullshits, there is no danger for the bullshitter.
So quite a number of people have a big interest in keeping the talents out of the game, and to have as many layers of bureaucracy as possible as this makes it more difficult it is to point the finger at any one person.
The same happends in school classrooms. If you are quite a lot better than the other pupils in class, then you better keep your head down. Don't think you know better how to tackle the work ahead.
I think schools educate us into accepting only bad management.
When almost everyone bullshits, there is no danger for the bullshitter.
So quite a number of people have a big interest in keeping the talents out of the game, and to have as many layers of bureaucracy as possible as this makes it more difficult it is to point the finger at any one person.
The same happends in school classrooms. If you are quite a lot better than the other pupils in class, then you better keep your head down. Don't think you know better how to tackle the work ahead.
I think schools educate us into accepting only bad management.
Any role can be filled by someone bad at that role.
There are -10x developers just as there are -10x managers.
What is the difference between a manager and an executive? A manager is an executive of a small part of a large org.
What is the difference between a manager and an executive? A manager is an executive of a small part of a large org.
To build on what another commenter said, the idea of manager READMEs made perfect sense when they started out a few years ago - here are my quirks, here’s how I operate, etc.
The problem is they’ve turned into something that justifies bad behavior more often than not. So many of them have this undercurrent of “I’m an asshole - don’t take it personally!” which is just totally not OK. The solution isn’t to proudly broadcast and justify that you’re an asshole and expect others to adapt — the solution is to not be an asshole.
That being said, things like “I tend to work late so if I email you on the weekend, I don’t expect you to reply until Monday” are totally reasonable and I think, on the whole, a good thing.
The problem is they’ve turned into something that justifies bad behavior more often than not. So many of them have this undercurrent of “I’m an asshole - don’t take it personally!” which is just totally not OK. The solution isn’t to proudly broadcast and justify that you’re an asshole and expect others to adapt — the solution is to not be an asshole.
That being said, things like “I tend to work late so if I email you on the weekend, I don’t expect you to reply until Monday” are totally reasonable and I think, on the whole, a good thing.
Very much agree with your analysis here. It's like many, many good ideas that have come up in SV (agile/scrum, OKRs, etc), when looked at as a useful tool for the individual that should be utilized on an individualized basis, they are incredibly useful. When made standard and forced into use-cases and personality types they don't work for, they can be mediocre or even counter-productive. They will also be used in ways not entirely desired, such as for self-promotion, self-justification, gaming things, etc. Managers also tend to get overly prescriptive about how to use the tool (usually a sentence that starts with, "here's how we do $TOOL at $COMPANY" is often heading there).
I've used OKRs, Kanban/agile and many other tools for me at an individual level and loved them. I've had the exact same tools at companies become a waste of time, a point of contention, and only be a "value add" for management.
I've used OKRs, Kanban/agile and many other tools for me at an individual level and loved them. I've had the exact same tools at companies become a waste of time, a point of contention, and only be a "value add" for management.
If someone tells you they are an asshole, the problem isn't that they told you.
Ugh as someone with 12 years of experience and about 8 ish in a teach lead/management role. This seems super weird to me.
An Engineering Manger/Director/VP/CTO's main job is 2 things.
- To be the over arching intermediate between engineering and other business units (note: this does not mean walling off engineering, engineers SHOULD understand and work with business units when it makes sense).
- To support, mentor, shield, and basically do what ever is necessary for their team/department/org to be as successful as possible.
This sounds VERY self centered and I honestly believe product and engineering managers need to be to most selfless people possible to actually be effective. I would call it backwards even... a leader/manager needs to tailor himself and his approach to both his people and his cross-department equals in order to be the most successful.
An Engineering Manger/Director/VP/CTO's main job is 2 things.
- To be the over arching intermediate between engineering and other business units (note: this does not mean walling off engineering, engineers SHOULD understand and work with business units when it makes sense).
- To support, mentor, shield, and basically do what ever is necessary for their team/department/org to be as successful as possible.
This sounds VERY self centered and I honestly believe product and engineering managers need to be to most selfless people possible to actually be effective. I would call it backwards even... a leader/manager needs to tailor himself and his approach to both his people and his cross-department equals in order to be the most successful.
This is the silliest, most ridiculous, and self absorbed thing I've read in a while. So much so that I suspect it's actually satire. If it's not then silicon valley sounds like another planet, in my 2+ decades of employment I've never had any sort of issues with management. If I have any questions, I ask, if I have any feedback, I give it. That clears up any ambiguity.
> in my 2+ decades of employment I've never had any sort of issues with management
Then you're incredibly fortunate. I've had to deal with management issues at multiple companies in a shorter span of time.
Then you're incredibly fortunate. I've had to deal with management issues at multiple companies in a shorter span of time.
Sure, but a README doesn't magically fix shitty management, if anything it just a justification for it.
Not to mention people are just horrifying bad at seeing themselves as others see them. I think of the scene in A Christmas Story when the kid expects to get a glowing review of his paper but instead got a D grade. It actually reminded me of a family member of mine who got called into his boss's office. He was bragging that he was going to get a bonus or promotion and instead he got a demotion due to poor performance and bad work ethic.
I've had five software jobs and five unskilled jobs.
Not to mention people are just horrifying bad at seeing themselves as others see them. I think of the scene in A Christmas Story when the kid expects to get a glowing review of his paper but instead got a D grade. It actually reminded me of a family member of mine who got called into his boss's office. He was bragging that he was going to get a bonus or promotion and instead he got a demotion due to poor performance and bad work ethic.
I've had five software jobs and five unskilled jobs.
Oh, certainly. I think a README could've been helpful from good managers, but it could just as easily make bad managers worse.
See also The Manager FAQ by Peter Seebach:
http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
Thanks for this one! Reading his Hacker Faq already...
I wrote one for myself that is yet to be published. Will give it a 2nd thought.
The reason I thought it would be helpful is that I am not a high feedback person. I seldom praise (need to work on that), I am not expressive, I've been told I 'play my cards close to the vest.' by someone who directly reported to me. That really got me thinking that maybe the circumstances where I am not getting what I want is because my staff really cannot figure out what I'm looking for in general. So I wrote up a 'read me', before I knew there was this trend.
I included self-deprecating statements about things like assigning a task to multiple people because I forgot it had already been assigned 'Don't take it personally, just let me know and I'll fix it.' And, if they need me to attend a meeting, make sure it's on my calendar, or, no chance I'll remember.
In the end, it's only going to be as helpful as it is 'correct' and clearly described. That depends on each manager's level of self-awareness, combined with their sense of self confidence. You'd hope managers would have both qualities, but if not, this can really be a red herring, or even be used as a dark pattern.
The reason I thought it would be helpful is that I am not a high feedback person. I seldom praise (need to work on that), I am not expressive, I've been told I 'play my cards close to the vest.' by someone who directly reported to me. That really got me thinking that maybe the circumstances where I am not getting what I want is because my staff really cannot figure out what I'm looking for in general. So I wrote up a 'read me', before I knew there was this trend.
I included self-deprecating statements about things like assigning a task to multiple people because I forgot it had already been assigned 'Don't take it personally, just let me know and I'll fix it.' And, if they need me to attend a meeting, make sure it's on my calendar, or, no chance I'll remember.
In the end, it's only going to be as helpful as it is 'correct' and clearly described. That depends on each manager's level of self-awareness, combined with their sense of self confidence. You'd hope managers would have both qualities, but if not, this can really be a red herring, or even be used as a dark pattern.
> The reason I thought it would be helpful is that I am not a high feedback person. I seldom praise (need to work on that)
The reason I would be afraid to standardize manager READMEs is specifically that I do not trust the average manager to publicly acknowledge and privately work on flaws like that. For managers who do that, I’m not that concerned about the exercise because it’s more likely to produce something useful for the employees. For the other type of manager, I’d be afraid of accidentally creating the expectation that the employee needs to adopt the manager’s style, which I would privately recommend to any employee, but which I would vehemently oppose as anything resembling an official expectation.
The reason I would be afraid to standardize manager READMEs is specifically that I do not trust the average manager to publicly acknowledge and privately work on flaws like that. For managers who do that, I’m not that concerned about the exercise because it’s more likely to produce something useful for the employees. For the other type of manager, I’d be afraid of accidentally creating the expectation that the employee needs to adopt the manager’s style, which I would privately recommend to any employee, but which I would vehemently oppose as anything resembling an official expectation.
Please don't cut off
your effort communicating with your reports because a bunch of misanthropes on HN hate on people who make an effort.
Tangent here - saw Torch and nostalgia of http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/1039/Torch-Computers-... came a flooding.
I'm wondering if anyone has been in a manager-less team. I would like to think that's possible and if so what was the experience like?
it works fine as long as everyone is extremely reasonable, and everyone's primary motivation is the success of the project.
unfortunately, this is very unlikely to be true. and increasingly less so as the team size increases.
one confounding factor here is the heavy use of religion to guide technical decisions. the decisions we make now about the direction of the product and the attributes of the codebase are largely subjective. there are arguments on all sides of a position.
a good team, properly enculturated, understands the process. when the issue is important enough to justify digging in and when its just a personal bias. a good team helps all of its members stay on the path and not end up in giant ratholes. a good team uses its experience to inform future decisions rather than create artificial strictures. a good team has enough time and maturity to interact constructively with the rest of the business and the customers.
I shouldn't say 'good' team, I should say 'perfect'
good management greases all of these points of potential friction. but I think at the end of the day management is there to address the last point. its natural and expected for engineers to keep a narrow focus on the technical aspects of the project itself. someone's got to make sure its evolving in a direction that's meaningful in an external context.
unfortunately, this is very unlikely to be true. and increasingly less so as the team size increases.
one confounding factor here is the heavy use of religion to guide technical decisions. the decisions we make now about the direction of the product and the attributes of the codebase are largely subjective. there are arguments on all sides of a position.
a good team, properly enculturated, understands the process. when the issue is important enough to justify digging in and when its just a personal bias. a good team helps all of its members stay on the path and not end up in giant ratholes. a good team uses its experience to inform future decisions rather than create artificial strictures. a good team has enough time and maturity to interact constructively with the rest of the business and the customers.
I shouldn't say 'good' team, I should say 'perfect'
good management greases all of these points of potential friction. but I think at the end of the day management is there to address the last point. its natural and expected for engineers to keep a narrow focus on the technical aspects of the project itself. someone's got to make sure its evolving in a direction that's meaningful in an external context.
Yes, teams don't need managers unless they have people that need managing. Also, teams don't need developers if they don't have any code that needs writing. Ignorant dismissal of the value of other kinds of work besides their own, combined with a lashing out against suggestion that they might not be perfect, is one of (a vocal portion of? HN's nasty vices.
I’m in one right now. We manage each other I guess. It works well. We recently decided to add a lightweight annual career goal type check in. We have a sort of informal lead that is recognized politically as the person you’d go to if you needed to resolve a dispute or air a grievance. I came from a gig where I was managed being managed very directly and I don’t miss it at all. If people want more structure we can accommodate them, but I think most of us feel like it’s just process we don’t need because our culture highly values trust in one another.
It tends to work for small early teams, but it tends to not survive growth and turnover. The reason is that in order to make it work you have to rely extremely heavily on behavioral norms and a “social contract” that every team member exercises restraint, and in practice that’s very hard to enforce without a hierarchy.
I don’t honk that’s possible as someone will always have to do the bureaucratic bits of people management - in my experience most engineers don’t want to do this bit at all and only focus on the tech
I've always dreamed of that, and while I haven't yet experienced a completely "manager-less" team I've come close. It didn't work out quite like I hoped it would.
The short version is that it worked amazingly well for a little while, with a small team of people that worked well together. However as the team scaled certain personality traits emerged in everybody. What basically happened is certain people became "the manager" in practice because everyone just deferred to this person for decisions and such. Various reasons for that, good and bad:
1. This person was technically very capable.
2. This person had a strong personality that was disagreeable, and people didn't want to cross him.
3. If you were wrong in any way, this person would publicly broadcast your failure, which made people afraid to ever challenge him.
4. Many people aren't really comfortable not having a boss. They will naturally look to someone to lead things, and usually the person they select is not the best one for the job (or even close), it's just the person with the strongest personality. I don't mean to get political here, but I can't help but notice how similar this is to President Trump.
So basically my conclusion is: we can't have nice things because human nature. More specifically, manager-less teams would great for small groups that work well together. It doesn't scale, and doesn't work well for everybody. Some people need management.
The short version is that it worked amazingly well for a little while, with a small team of people that worked well together. However as the team scaled certain personality traits emerged in everybody. What basically happened is certain people became "the manager" in practice because everyone just deferred to this person for decisions and such. Various reasons for that, good and bad:
1. This person was technically very capable.
2. This person had a strong personality that was disagreeable, and people didn't want to cross him.
3. If you were wrong in any way, this person would publicly broadcast your failure, which made people afraid to ever challenge him.
4. Many people aren't really comfortable not having a boss. They will naturally look to someone to lead things, and usually the person they select is not the best one for the job (or even close), it's just the person with the strongest personality. I don't mean to get political here, but I can't help but notice how similar this is to President Trump.
So basically my conclusion is: we can't have nice things because human nature. More specifically, manager-less teams would great for small groups that work well together. It doesn't scale, and doesn't work well for everybody. Some people need management.
This started out well.
Perhaps it's cultural (I'm from the UK), but I can't imagine writing something so painfully self-absorbed - and then expecting people to read it.
When I read the hn title I thought the direct reports wrote a readme about the manager. That made a whole lot more sense to me. How many coffees does (he/she) need to drink before it’s ok to approach their desk. How much detail do they require when explaining an issue. These are the features I’d like documented for new hires.
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> painfully self-absorbed
Generally, when someone suffixes their name in a non-scholarly context with "PhD" that's usually the first clue that it's going to be pretentious and/or self absorbed.
Generally, when someone suffixes their name in a non-scholarly context with "PhD" that's usually the first clue that it's going to be pretentious and/or self absorbed.
For this guy, it’s at the end of the article. By the first paragraph you have all the clues you need. In fact, even by the title. Putting himself into that circle of “best managers” via logical fallacy: the best do this; I do this; I am the best.
Ditto. I'm from Scandinavia and I've seen developers snicker at much less self-absorbedness from management.
I also cannot understand the obsession with 30 minutes of 1:1 every week.
I consider that an extreme version of micromanagement. Give us developers the big picture so we know what we need to work on and can see what's important in which way, and we will find out how it's done.
If you don't trust developers to be able to communicate and plan complex jobs without 30 minutes of 1:1, how can you write "excellent communication skills" in the job posting?
I also cannot understand the obsession with 30 minutes of 1:1 every week.
I consider that an extreme version of micromanagement. Give us developers the big picture so we know what we need to work on and can see what's important in which way, and we will find out how it's done.
If you don't trust developers to be able to communicate and plan complex jobs without 30 minutes of 1:1, how can you write "excellent communication skills" in the job posting?
It seems you imply there are imperfect managers but there can only ever be perfect developers. I would be the happiest person on this planet if that would be the case. Excellent communication skills don't help if the listener is sub-par.
No, I just don't see a 1:1 being better at communicating goals etc for the company compared to a group beeting.
Why is a meeting with a single developer so much better than a meeting with the full group? In group meetings you get more view points and more easily find out if somebody are talking past each other.
What is it that needs 30 minutes of personal time every week and that cannot be communicated at the meeting with the other developers in the group?
Why is a meeting with a single developer so much better than a meeting with the full group? In group meetings you get more view points and more easily find out if somebody are talking past each other.
What is it that needs 30 minutes of personal time every week and that cannot be communicated at the meeting with the other developers in the group?
IT people really love these kind of forced parallels. Can't really think of another sector that does this. Maybe it's all that "Uber/Airbnb but for X" thinking.
Unless your surname is .exe I don't think you need a readme file. You could do the human thing though and discuss expectations with your team though...
Unless your surname is .exe I don't think you need a readme file. You could do the human thing though and discuss expectations with your team though...
1) It's manager-centric. Why would you give employees a guide to their manager when you could give them an "Employee README" that is focused on the new employee? When I join a company, I want to know what's expected of me so I can succeed. If the company delivers this in a form of a manager README then I'll still be missing the big picture goals of the company. Managers - Focus on your employees, not yourself.
2) Manager READMEs become an aspirational target. Describing yourself in text is challenging for the ego. I've seen too many manager READMEs that read like a picture-perfect version of what the manager aspires to be, rather than a description of how the person actually operates.
3) The self-promotion aspect. When managers post their README all over internal company chat, public Twitter, their LinkedIn profiles, Medium think pieces, and the company blog (like this article), the document becomes a brand-building exercise. This puts even more pressure on managers to only write down their most perfect, idealized vision for what they want to be. Or they spin their flaws as some sort of superpower with creative wording. I once read a public manager README that was nothing like that person's actual management style, but it read as if that person was a textbook-perfect manager.
My recommendation: Skip the manager README fad and focus on your employees. Write an "Employee README" onboarding guide for each of your employees, that you customize with individual expectations and information for each employee before they join the company. Keep it in a shared document that you can update over time to include an up-to-date job description, list of responsibilities, and key expectations for that employee. Don't try to make management all about the manager's personal brand.