Ask HN: Best Dev Laptop 2020
My huawei matebook x pro has just lost its USB for the second time. The first one was replaced under warranty. Since half the screws have fallen out of the back and since I only got 2 good years out of it, huawei is off the table. Can anyone recommend a super thin powerful laptop for dev work? I actually loved the huawei with Ubuntu but the manufacturing quality was so poor I just can't go back. Was thinking of going back to Macbook air but I'd like to plug in to 3 vga monitors at the office. Thanks for any recommendations.
66 comments
Also looking for the same. I haven't used it personally but Lenovo T14 AMD version has been getting rave reviews.
There is also Thinkpad Nano coming up in January. It is super thin and lightweight, not sure if it would be good enough for heaving programming though
There is also Thinkpad Nano coming up in January. It is super thin and lightweight, not sure if it would be good enough for heaving programming though
I recently transitioned from desktop to a T14. Although my time-with-product has been relatively short (a week or so), I am really happy with it.
Pros:
- Ryzen 7 4750U is awesome.
- Lots of RAM.
- Easily customizable orders from Lenovo with great features to add
- Renoir graphics are pretty solid
- keyboard is fantastic, classic ThinkPad feel and usability
- Easy to upgrade. Ordered with a 128GB nvme and immediately upgraded to a 1TB, saved about $200.
- docking station allows for easy desktop use with multiple monitors
Cons:
- libfprint is still in it's early stages imo, so the finger printer reader is tough to set up with linux.
- no backlit keyboard (on the one I ordered, can't remember if that was an option or not)
Pros:
- Ryzen 7 4750U is awesome.
- Lots of RAM.
- Easily customizable orders from Lenovo with great features to add
- Renoir graphics are pretty solid
- keyboard is fantastic, classic ThinkPad feel and usability
- Easy to upgrade. Ordered with a 128GB nvme and immediately upgraded to a 1TB, saved about $200.
- docking station allows for easy desktop use with multiple monitors
Cons:
- libfprint is still in it's early stages imo, so the finger printer reader is tough to set up with linux.
- no backlit keyboard (on the one I ordered, can't remember if that was an option or not)
What happens when you press fn+space?
Nothing. If you're thinking about the "Privacy Guard" it's Fn+D for me.
how do you like the screen? I wish it had higher resolutions :(
I run a tiefighter monitor setup (2 vertical 1 horizontal in the middle) so I'm not super concerned with the laptop resolution.
My main thing was the viewing angle being very small for privacy in cafes. It also has Fn+D to toggle small vs. wider viewing angle.
So overall it works well for me.
My main thing was the viewing angle being very small for privacy in cafes. It also has Fn+D to toggle small vs. wider viewing angle.
So overall it works well for me.
Asus Zenbook serie
Why does "super thin" matter, if "powerful" is important?
because i do a ton of travel while working and i have been spoiled by the macbook air, which is the nicest physical device i've ever owned and it's hard to go back. the huawei comes close, but the quality was just so bad
Do not go back to a Macbook. I've been using Macbooks for ~10 years and their quality has been going consistently going downhill the past few years. I usually buy a new one every 1-2 years. I'm currently on a maxed out 16 inch Macbook Pro. Can't even connect an external monitor because of heating issues. Unless I mod the whole thing with cooling pads.
The last two times I bought a new one I thought "Not happy, but let's give Apple one more chance because they used to be good and everyone makes mistakes" - Regretted it every time. Keyboard issues (went to the Apple store 6+ times), Touchbar issues and it's annoying as a whole, overheating, GPU issues with external monitors, Bluetooth issues, and more. Next time will be the first time (really!) that I'm not buying a Macbook anymore.
The last two times I bought a new one I thought "Not happy, but let's give Apple one more chance because they used to be good and everyone makes mistakes" - Regretted it every time. Keyboard issues (went to the Apple store 6+ times), Touchbar issues and it's annoying as a whole, overheating, GPU issues with external monitors, Bluetooth issues, and more. Next time will be the first time (really!) that I'm not buying a Macbook anymore.
Whereas the MacBook Air is still amazing. Has a good processor now, good sized hd, no Touch Bar, Touch ID, light, great battery. Lack of ports is a thing but good thunderbolt 3 docks are about. Still the best laptop for me I’ve ever used.
My 2018 Air is great (except...keyboard). Don't rely on the review of the haters. If Apple has fixed their keyboards then you've got a chance to buy another great product IMHO.
Cooling on new Mac laptops is nearly-nonexistent. I'd wait for ARM (if that will even be usable for you) or go for a PC if you plan to do anything except editing text files and using SSH.
I agree so long as you're talking about the new 2020 model wherein they moved towards the magic keyboard.
Did the airs ever change their keyboards to the bad style? In either case, yes the 2020. My main beef with airs before was the speed but the new ones, while not blazing, are perfectly fine for daily use. Hardly any waits foe the cpu whereas with previous airs, was a bit skimpy there. Also only talking about the best processor they’ve offered as that’s the only one I’ve bought because uhhh work was paying for it. :)
Yes, the second-most recent model had a butterfly keyboard. I’m blanking on the year, it was either 2018 or 2019.
Just to contrast our experiences, I have a maxed out 16 inch MBP that I keep connected to 2 big external monitors for 8+ hours a day. Never any heating issues for me.
Me too, two 27 inch 4k monitors, although thats with the MacBook itself closed. I tried running with the MacBook open for 3 monitors and it started drawing much more power and the fans revved up and became audible.
From looking at the threads this is a known issue running the internal and external monitors together can cause excessive power draw even with just one external monitor, something to do with mismatch refresh rate between the built in and external display and the Radeon GPU power management [1].
I also had kernel panics coming out of sleep with external monitors connected and window manager restarts although they seem to have gone away in the last Mac OS release or two [2].
Also MacOS still doesn't support display port MST so usb-c hubs with two display ports only can mirror not two independent monitors.
Overall pretty happy with latest 16 inch MacBook but MacOS has had more power management issues than I am used to, very surprising and annoying, with the usual non-acknowledgment from Apple of problems.
1. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...
2. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/constant-kernel-panics-...
From looking at the threads this is a known issue running the internal and external monitors together can cause excessive power draw even with just one external monitor, something to do with mismatch refresh rate between the built in and external display and the Radeon GPU power management [1].
I also had kernel panics coming out of sleep with external monitors connected and window manager restarts although they seem to have gone away in the last Mac OS release or two [2].
Also MacOS still doesn't support display port MST so usb-c hubs with two display ports only can mirror not two independent monitors.
Overall pretty happy with latest 16 inch MacBook but MacOS has had more power management issues than I am used to, very surprising and annoying, with the usual non-acknowledgment from Apple of problems.
1. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...
2. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/constant-kernel-panics-...
Same here. All the problems I had initially with my MBP 16" and external monitors are now completely gone.
The fan does come on sometimes when connected to a single 4K monitor (my 2016 MBP 13" never had that problem). I understand it's because of the discreet GPU kicking in. I really wish we could opt to use the integrated GPU with external monitors connected.
Other than that though, this laptop has been exceptional.
The fan does come on sometimes when connected to a single 4K monitor (my 2016 MBP 13" never had that problem). I understand it's because of the discreet GPU kicking in. I really wish we could opt to use the integrated GPU with external monitors connected.
Other than that though, this laptop has been exceptional.
Heating problem only occurs when I use Chrome (a chrome problem maybe), debugging in a simulator, watch videos, play games. Text editing and emails are fine. I guess Macbook Pro is just a very productive machine :)
Why would you buy a new one every 1-2 years? My work MBP is a "mid-2014" i7 that I still see no reason to request a replacement for.
If you’re having heat issues on the 16” MBP (or, IIRC any of the USB-C models) try plugging the power in on the right side. I know it sounds crazy but it makes a difference.
Also, since we’re on the topic, if you get weird wake from sleep issues with external monitors, I’ve found the solution (at least for my setup) is to always wake the computer from the Touch ID button.
With all of that said, obviously these are not perfect machines. But in truth my 16” (BTO, max RAM, lowish specs on basically everything else) is the best computer I’ve ever owned.
Also, since we’re on the topic, if you get weird wake from sleep issues with external monitors, I’ve found the solution (at least for my setup) is to always wake the computer from the Touch ID button.
With all of that said, obviously these are not perfect machines. But in truth my 16” (BTO, max RAM, lowish specs on basically everything else) is the best computer I’ve ever owned.
In case it helps: I had some initial problems when using a USB-C -> HDMI cable that seemed to go away when I changed to a USB-C -> DisplayPort cable. Might be worth a shot.
Purism seems cool if you are into that sort of thing. If you want a more mainstream Windows/Linux laptop go with the Dell XPS. (It has good Linux support because there is a version with Ubuntu preinstalled). The new Mac pro is also quite good.
Are Purism laptops just Clevo rebadges like System76?
Not OP, but no. Purism specs their own hardware and oversees the entire supply chain to an extent that some chipsets are even custom modified before even being soldered to the motherboards.
Long term they're dedicated to ever increased supply chain control and customer choice in supply chain decisions. They already allow customers to choose where some key components are manufacture and even have one (smartphone) device which comes in a nearly entirely USA manufactued option.
Long term they're dedicated to ever increased supply chain control and customer choice in supply chain decisions. They already allow customers to choose where some key components are manufacture and even have one (smartphone) device which comes in a nearly entirely USA manufactued option.
I use a Dell Precision 5520 as my daily driver and have been very impressed. The things I like about it are a good backlit keyboard that hasn't been forced too thin, a bright screen I can see in sunlight, and a good battery life that hasn't significantly diminished as I have owned the laptop. The only complaint I have is it will sometimes turn itself back on in my bag and drain it's battery. The Precision 55XX line is basically their XPS line with a Quadro card baked in. The new 5550 model has a few spec bumps and a slightly nicer webcam placement and would be my recommendation if you need a Quadro card. Otherwise check out the latest Dell XPS line.
I have similar though I recommend Intel graphics and network card. Didn't have trouble with Broadcom, but some folks have. Ubuntu Mate is a good match as well.
Thinkpads. Great Linux support and a keyboard to die for.
I am now using an X1 Extreme Gen 2. (Amazon link: https://amzn.to/35BmH5y)
I am now using an X1 Extreme Gen 2. (Amazon link: https://amzn.to/35BmH5y)
Any reason you used an obfuscated, redirected affiliate link "tag=indiadefence-20"?
Kinda diminishes the recommendation.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083F8KG7N bring you to the same product. I'm sure HN can afford the storage and bandwidth for the extra 21 chars. Ironically, i'm now costing them more with my reply to your comment than if you'd just linked Amazon directly without the ref.
Kinda diminishes the recommendation.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083F8KG7N bring you to the same product. I'm sure HN can afford the storage and bandwidth for the extra 21 chars. Ironically, i'm now costing them more with my reply to your comment than if you'd just linked Amazon directly without the ref.
Does it bother you so much that he would put in a link that had an affiliate? I doubt he was trying to hide anything nefarious. I am linked to a few affiliates and when I share a link, it has the affiliate tag in it. He uses a great laptop, he shared it, you can look or not. I doubt he was trying to save HN bandwidth or storage.
> Does it bother you so much that he would put in a link that had an affiliate?
Clearly yes - thus me commenting on it.
> I doubt he was trying to hide anything nefarious
Do you know this person and are speaking for their integrity? Would you swear to this person's honesty in a court of law in front of your peers? (ABSURDIST PART OF COMMENT)
> I doubt he was trying to save HN bandwidth or storage.
Right, my apologies for making the absurdist part of my reply not obvious enough. Will not make this mistake again.
Clearly yes - thus me commenting on it.
> I doubt he was trying to hide anything nefarious
Do you know this person and are speaking for their integrity? Would you swear to this person's honesty in a court of law in front of your peers? (ABSURDIST PART OF COMMENT)
> I doubt he was trying to save HN bandwidth or storage.
Right, my apologies for making the absurdist part of my reply not obvious enough. Will not make this mistake again.
Why would it diminish the recommendation? Why shouldn't he get a cut from a product he referred to someone?
Why should amazon collect all the referral fee for themselves, a fee that's charged either way on any seller, without cutting a slice for someone who actually referred to?
Why should amazon collect all the referral fee for themselves, a fee that's charged either way on any seller, without cutting a slice for someone who actually referred to?
>Why would it diminish the recommendation?
Because they're getting paid to recommend it, which is inherently dishonest. That should be obvious.
And why link to Amazon at all? Link to the manufacturer instead:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x1/X1...
Because they're getting paid to recommend it, which is inherently dishonest. That should be obvious.
And why link to Amazon at all? Link to the manufacturer instead:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x1/X1...
No it's not dishonest, he did a pretty simple comment.
It's his recommendation, it doesn't say he is working for Lenovo, or Amazon. If he can be paid to generate money for Amazon and Lenovo, because he recommended someone to a product on a specific platform, why shouldn't he collect it?
If it was a Lenovo shill that linked to Lenovo shop then that would be fine, because it didn't have a referral link?
It's his recommendation, it doesn't say he is working for Lenovo, or Amazon. If he can be paid to generate money for Amazon and Lenovo, because he recommended someone to a product on a specific platform, why shouldn't he collect it?
If it was a Lenovo shill that linked to Lenovo shop then that would be fine, because it didn't have a referral link?
Are you looking for a cloud provider? I can think of no better provider than Digital Ocean™. Get your half-assed web app up and running in minutes with Digital Ocean™, using this easy to remember URL.
https://m.do.co/c/79e624bd349b
Of all the providers I've tried, Digital Ocean™ is definitely the okayest.
https://m.do.co/c/79e624bd349b
Of all the providers I've tried, Digital Ocean™ is definitely the okayest.
I'm already a customer of Digital Ocean.
Also I didn't ask for any recommendation, so what you did there is pretty much spam.
Also I didn't ask for any recommendation, so what you did there is pretty much spam.
I don't know if you have a web app or not, or to what extent is has been assed, but regardless of where on the scale from zero to fully assed your app is, you can feel secure that it will be competently hosted by Digital Ocean™.
To be fair, they're getting paid to recommend buying it through Amazon. Sure there might be an incentive to link a higher-priced laptop to get a larger commission, but in terms of Lenovo-vs-some-other-brand I don't see any incentive for bias.
If he linked to an expensive product without a ref, i have zero doubt it's an honest recommendation.
Linking to a product worth nearly 2 grand (where he gets a 5%? cut - ~$100 per purchase), then is it an honest recommendation or an easy money grab?
Linking to a product worth nearly 2 grand (where he gets a 5%? cut - ~$100 per purchase), then is it an honest recommendation or an easy money grab?
I’m with you. Posting affiliate links on HN is spammy imo and makes me question the recommendation. Is it a not so good model but the one Amazon has? Why not but from Lenovo direct?
I'm really enjoying my Razer Blade Stealth! Powerful, has a nice feel to it. I was looking for something similar to my old Macbook Pro, but without buying a Macbook - this was the closest I could find.
Runs Linux really nicely + as far as I can tell everything works. Also, the screen is gorgeous!
Runs Linux really nicely + as far as I can tell everything works. Also, the screen is gorgeous!
I have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon (gen 7) and it’s the best laptop I’ve ever owned (after several generations of various windows laptops and macbook models)
Fantastic keyboard, fantastic support from various BSDs and Linuxes, great build quality, good screen, has some USB-A and USB-C ports, doesn’t look silly.
Can not recommend this model enough.
The only downside is probably all the weird stuff Lenovo has done in the past - but those have all been on Windows. If you’re going to remove windows, I’m guessing it won’t matter that much.
Fantastic keyboard, fantastic support from various BSDs and Linuxes, great build quality, good screen, has some USB-A and USB-C ports, doesn’t look silly.
Can not recommend this model enough.
The only downside is probably all the weird stuff Lenovo has done in the past - but those have all been on Windows. If you’re going to remove windows, I’m guessing it won’t matter that much.
The Dell XPS line from this year looks really solid. I would go for the 15 inch and use Windows + WSL2 instead of native Linux.
Has anyone tried https://system76.com/laptops/lemur ?
Seems like a nice option and heard good things about PopOS
I actually got a Lemur Pro for work, and I really love it. I had an XPS 13 2020 Dev Edition for about 2 months, and long story short, Dell support sucks, and we decided to return the device, and went with a Lemur Pro as the replacement.
Pros: - Great battery life, I develop in typescript currently and am getting a full day of battery
- Using a dock, I can get up to 3 displays, maybe four if I try with the on-board HDMI port
- Charges with USB-C with up to 65W, so one cable for everything.
- Full sized USB A ports for quick flash drive access
- Typing on the keyboard is very solid (however I do have one con listed below)
- Can turn off camera via software (with Pop_OS)
- Linux from the get-go
- Came packaged pretty well
- Lots of goodies came along. Pins, stickers, etc. Not everyone will care but I thought it was a nice touch
- Recyclable box, plastics, tc came in the packaging.
- It's SUPER light
- Good amount of customization in my opinion
- Has another m.2 slot you can put your own or buy it configured and filled up
Cons:
- Regardless of configured RAM, first slot is always 8gb, so anything beyond 16gb total will always be non-dual-channel. Believe this is soldered.
- Touchpad could be bigger
- I believe the max brightness is something around 300 or 350 nits, which may cause issues when working outside, haven't had the opportunity to because of COVID
- The keyboard has pg_up and pg_down on top of left and right keys, which is rather obnoxious and I wish they would have went with pg_up and pg_down for fn + arrow instead.
- Possible con for people: SD card slot is only micro, not full sized
- Only one USB-C port
- No thunderbolt
- Power button is unintuitive imo, but I'm nitpicking at this point
- Compared to the dell, the bezels are a bit larger than I like, but again, nitpicking/doesn't really bother me
Pros: - Great battery life, I develop in typescript currently and am getting a full day of battery
- Using a dock, I can get up to 3 displays, maybe four if I try with the on-board HDMI port
- Charges with USB-C with up to 65W, so one cable for everything.
- Full sized USB A ports for quick flash drive access
- Typing on the keyboard is very solid (however I do have one con listed below)
- Can turn off camera via software (with Pop_OS)
- Linux from the get-go
- Came packaged pretty well
- Lots of goodies came along. Pins, stickers, etc. Not everyone will care but I thought it was a nice touch
- Recyclable box, plastics, tc came in the packaging.
- It's SUPER light
- Good amount of customization in my opinion
- Has another m.2 slot you can put your own or buy it configured and filled up
Cons:
- Regardless of configured RAM, first slot is always 8gb, so anything beyond 16gb total will always be non-dual-channel. Believe this is soldered.
- Touchpad could be bigger
- I believe the max brightness is something around 300 or 350 nits, which may cause issues when working outside, haven't had the opportunity to because of COVID
- The keyboard has pg_up and pg_down on top of left and right keys, which is rather obnoxious and I wish they would have went with pg_up and pg_down for fn + arrow instead.
- Possible con for people: SD card slot is only micro, not full sized
- Only one USB-C port
- No thunderbolt
- Power button is unintuitive imo, but I'm nitpicking at this point
- Compared to the dell, the bezels are a bit larger than I like, but again, nitpicking/doesn't really bother me
Thanks for the awesome review I appreciate it
I haven't tried the Lemur but I have a Darter I bought this year. Surprisingly powerful and feather weight (which was the major reason I bought a laptop this year). It runs Pop OS which, surprised me again, is very convenient and a nice usability improvement on top of Ubuntu. Highly recommend.
Thanks for the rec!
I don't have any experience with their hardware, but both of my personal computers run Pop!_OS. If you're looking for a distro in the Debian vein, and aren't hardcore Free software (I think they include drivers to play with proprietary hardware), it doesn't get much better. I don't see myself switching away from 20.04 in the next few years, at least.
Those and the Purism are super interesting, but useless if you don't want enUS keyboard layout.
[deleted]
Have a look at ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14
I previously had (switched jobs a few weeks ago) a thinkpad x1 carbon 14" and it was an excellent laptop. I'm not sure how many monitors it could support, but I'd definitely recommend the line.
You did not mention whether you will be using it as dev machine or something else.
In case dev, get Dell XPS Ubuntu. Latitudes with Ubuntu are even better (used one for 4 years).
Bought the MacBook Pro, due to all the hype. It already made me visit Mac service centre twice. One day it just refused to boot. Motherboard replaced. Second time due to battery swelling issue whole Touchpad, Keyboard and battery replaced. Regretting it now. Only useful if you are developing apps for iPhone/macOS.
In case dev, get Dell XPS Ubuntu. Latitudes with Ubuntu are even better (used one for 4 years).
Bought the MacBook Pro, due to all the hype. It already made me visit Mac service centre twice. One day it just refused to boot. Motherboard replaced. Second time due to battery swelling issue whole Touchpad, Keyboard and battery replaced. Regretting it now. Only useful if you are developing apps for iPhone/macOS.
i said "laptop for dev work"
Oops. I worded poorly. What I wanted to ask was what type of dev work.
[deleted]
I still think the MacBook Pro is the undisputed champ of dev machines. Lots of people seem to like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon for Windows stuff.
I'm tempted to try LG Gram 17" - or some similar large screen ultrabook. Getting fed up with macOS is part of the reason, but also so locked up into ecosystem with iCloud, etc.
Thanks for everyone's input, i ordered the thinkpad x1 carbon, first ibm computer i've ever bought (for you younger folks, lenovo is rooted in ibm), will post on how it goes. thanks again.
The x1 is a great machine, I've been using a work issued one with ubuntu for a couple of years now, I use two external displays with it both at work and home.