The productivity of working from home: Evidence from Japan(voxeu.org)
voxeu.org
The productivity of working from home: Evidence from Japan
https://voxeu.org/article/productivity-working-home-evidence-japan
171 comments
> More work gets done in a dedicated space for work, surrounded by other people engaged in related work, and this is especially true if some of the team members are young and inexperienced.
More work gets done when you're tired from being up early for your commute, then the commute itself, and surrounded by distracting coworkers? Not for me, not ever again if I can help it.
More work gets done when you're tired from being up early for your commute, then the commute itself, and surrounded by distracting coworkers? Not for me, not ever again if I can help it.
Don’t forget the 5 coffee breaks, multi hour conference room meetings, lunch meetings, etc, that can take up half your work week if you give in to that sort of stuff.
Call me weird but it feels like those 5 coffee breaks gave me enough situational awareness to avoid 5 hours of meeting.
Most times it's out of your control, though. Someone else booked the meeting, a higher uo decided you should go, and those hours are lost.
My meeting load increased with wfh, what could normally be accomplished by walking by someones desk and chatting for 5 minutes now takes a dedicated meeting for 30 minutes. As it's a dedicated meeting it requires inviting a bunch of optional folks to ensure they feel like they had a voice in a decision/discussion. Finally this all requires scheduling into everyones swiss cheesed calendars.
In a modern tech company with all the wfh and productivity bells and whistles I now watch as my productive days vanish into 6 hours of meetings.
In a modern tech company with all the wfh and productivity bells and whistles I now watch as my productive days vanish into 6 hours of meetings.
This is all true for me. Although one benefit is no more people dropping by for 5 minute chats. On the other other hand I miss those a bit.
Truth clearly lies in the middle. Maybe on average .. a workplace is a better concentration of means and dedication even though it's obvious that it's a very very inefficient place most of the time.
The truth is almost never the average. (What's the average handedness of a population?)
But it's a convenient aggregate despite a likely heterogeneous population.
The truth lies in admitting actual productivity. He's claiming 0.68 or 5 hours and 26 minutes of productivity when WFH. That's a huge number to have both consistently and exceptionally. I bet the average person gets 2-3/day if they're honest about it.
Japan is also famous for its salarymen who will fall asleep at their desks to avoid leaving the office before their boss. Time in an office does not equal productivity.
How do you stay caffeinated at home?
Caffeine isn't really beneficial for work, right? Most of its effect is because it's addictive and you need to prevent the withdrawal. The point of a break is that it's an excuse to stand up and walk around.
True, the coffee is just one of the devices to take your mind off things. My ex-girlfriend had a dog and when she was sick I had to walk it 3 times a day. Even though by that time (shortly before our breakup) I didn't like her or her dog, the walks were extremely therapeutic.
All coffee and smoke breaks actually are aimed at taking a step back and gain some small extra energy to keep going.
All coffee and smoke breaks actually are aimed at taking a step back and gain some small extra energy to keep going.
> The point of a break is that it's an excuse to stand up and walk around.
I agree. And its value and time commitment needed does not change if you work from office or home.
I agree. And its value and time commitment needed does not change if you work from office or home.
You should definitely stand up and walk around even when working from home.
short commutes are better than working in a pajama straight from the bed.
I worked from home before the pandemic hit and been doing it on and off for 15 years, but I took the habit of going out for a walk before starting to work, it actually wakes me up for real and sharpens my thoughts.
It also forces me to dress and take care of my hygiene.
A thing that many home workers I know, adults like me, don't do everyday. Which is, IMO, a set back.
Now that due to the pandemic I am confined at home, I feel tired all day and my productivity has gone down, to the point that I have to work 7 or 8 hours a day, while 5 were enough before.
Suffering for waking up early for a commute is only a symptom of not being a morning person, I negotiate comfortable starting work hours in all my contracts and never had to wake up early in the past 10 years.
And you know the main reason the employer accepted it as a reasonable argument?
because out of the rush hour commuting is easier (which is actually true)
they never heard from me "I am late because the bus/subway/train/whatever was full"
In my experience distracting coworkers are a lot worse when you are online all day remotely: you can close the door, but can't block them on teams.
Finally: consider that the majority of people all over the World have much better work spaces than home offices.
Usually home offices for regular people suck and/or people live in small homes.
Especially in Japan or Europe.
one last bit: WFH workers that are less experienced have harder times getting a promotion than in presence.
I worked from home before the pandemic hit and been doing it on and off for 15 years, but I took the habit of going out for a walk before starting to work, it actually wakes me up for real and sharpens my thoughts.
It also forces me to dress and take care of my hygiene.
A thing that many home workers I know, adults like me, don't do everyday. Which is, IMO, a set back.
Now that due to the pandemic I am confined at home, I feel tired all day and my productivity has gone down, to the point that I have to work 7 or 8 hours a day, while 5 were enough before.
Suffering for waking up early for a commute is only a symptom of not being a morning person, I negotiate comfortable starting work hours in all my contracts and never had to wake up early in the past 10 years.
And you know the main reason the employer accepted it as a reasonable argument?
because out of the rush hour commuting is easier (which is actually true)
they never heard from me "I am late because the bus/subway/train/whatever was full"
In my experience distracting coworkers are a lot worse when you are online all day remotely: you can close the door, but can't block them on teams.
Finally: consider that the majority of people all over the World have much better work spaces than home offices.
Usually home offices for regular people suck and/or people live in small homes.
Especially in Japan or Europe.
one last bit: WFH workers that are less experienced have harder times getting a promotion than in presence.
I agree that deliberately breaking the work-from-home routine is helpful for mental and physical health. Not very sure that people need a bath every day though (there were studies showing that some soaps and shampoos are really bad for the skin so shouldn't be applied daily).
IMO working from home can even further destroy your work-life balance -- but only if you let it, which is sadly easy in these conditions. So I agree with you there, we have to get out of our way -- literally and figuratively -- to compensate for some negative WFH traits.
IMO working from home can even further destroy your work-life balance -- but only if you let it, which is sadly easy in these conditions. So I agree with you there, we have to get out of our way -- literally and figuratively -- to compensate for some negative WFH traits.
To the last bit about promotions, I like to think that things are how we -- anyone in a team lead or manager position now or in the future -- shape them to be.
It's sad thinking about a state of affairs where I would be biased towards the person in my team I see most often - either through better guidance/collaboration (affecting promotability over time) or mere water-cooler familiarity.
It's sad thinking about a state of affairs where I would be biased towards the person in my team I see most often - either through better guidance/collaboration (affecting promotability over time) or mere water-cooler familiarity.
The commute doesn't have to tire you, if you do it only 2-3 days per week. Increased workspace flexibility might be one of the biggest wins from this period of forced WFH. I know the thing that tires me most is the boredom from a fixed routine.
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IT is one of the best fields for working from home. You should consider that or we have a profound bias.
And, it's true that commuting and working in badly designed open office spaces are extremely bad for productivity.
On the other hand working in a group can be a lot more productive than alone in the home office even connected electronically because we are humans and need social stimulation, but this is not true for everybody.
We should not forget these points when commenting.
And, it's true that commuting and working in badly designed open office spaces are extremely bad for productivity.
On the other hand working in a group can be a lot more productive than alone in the home office even connected electronically because we are humans and need social stimulation, but this is not true for everybody.
We should not forget these points when commenting.
I'm human, and I need social stimulation. What I really dislike is forced social stimulation. I would go to an office, yes. But monthly, not daily.
Same here. I miss my colleagues. But my preferred intensity of contact would be having a lunch together. Only my family should get 8.5 hours of my time every day.
The average commute is 25 minutes, and this means many people have shorter commutes. Just how much is waking up ten minutes earlier going to crater your performance?
(If you are one of those poor souls with a 90 minute commute, I understand your pain, but you shouldn't try to generalize your experience)
(If you are one of those poor souls with a 90 minute commute, I understand your pain, but you shouldn't try to generalize your experience)
I used to have a 10 minute walk to work, and it was great. I'd take 1-2 days WFH a month still because there was some work that simply needed no interruptions/distractions.
Now I have a 60-75 minute commute over underground, and I'm not looking forward to the return to the office. There's definitely aspects of working where I long for the office, but others where I'm glad for the solitude.
If we have to return 5 days a week I'll probably have to move and pay much more or have a tiny living space.
I value my time more than my comfort so am accepting of this, but it still frustrates me after living the afore mentioned dream.
I'd also note that I regularly start work an hour or two early since working from home - with >2hrs of commuting slashed from my day, if I get a good thought at breakfast why not bash it out?
When you're facing 12hrs as a baseline for your working day it's much less appealing to contribute outside that time.
Now I have a 60-75 minute commute over underground, and I'm not looking forward to the return to the office. There's definitely aspects of working where I long for the office, but others where I'm glad for the solitude.
If we have to return 5 days a week I'll probably have to move and pay much more or have a tiny living space.
I value my time more than my comfort so am accepting of this, but it still frustrates me after living the afore mentioned dream.
I'd also note that I regularly start work an hour or two early since working from home - with >2hrs of commuting slashed from my day, if I get a good thought at breakfast why not bash it out?
When you're facing 12hrs as a baseline for your working day it's much less appealing to contribute outside that time.
Commutes are responsible for a 9.91% drop in hourly wages[1].
Also, the less time you spend commuting by automobile, the less likely you are to be involved in an expensive, injurious or deadly accident, especially if you're commuting while while you or others are tired in the morning, or are tired after working all day.
[1] https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator
Also, the less time you spend commuting by automobile, the less likely you are to be involved in an expensive, injurious or deadly accident, especially if you're commuting while while you or others are tired in the morning, or are tired after working all day.
[1] https://go.frontier.com/business/commute-calculator
I’d like to know the impact of people not getting sick as much. I haven’t been sick in a bee a year and it’s great. Almost all of my illnesses came from the workplace.
Just having to put on work clothes, do basic grooming, prepare food to take, etc., already adds more than 10 minutes, on top of whatever the commute is. Driving to work probably means 8-10 less hours of free time a week, all to go to an office and do the same exact thing I could do at home.
You dont do basic groomung and food preparation unless you go to the office?
Not necessarily before work anymore. If I need an extra hour of sleep, I can just set my alarm for 15 minutes before 9.
I can also now take a quick shower in the middle of the day when I need to get away from the screen to think.
Or I can make a granola bowl while I'm in a meeting. Or walk the dog, or do any number of low cognitive load things (especially for meetings that I'm expected to attend even when they are only tangential to my work).
I can also now take a quick shower in the middle of the day when I need to get away from the screen to think.
Or I can make a granola bowl while I'm in a meeting. Or walk the dog, or do any number of low cognitive load things (especially for meetings that I'm expected to attend even when they are only tangential to my work).
Of course I do, but not at stable scheduled hours -- and it feels much more therapeutic this way.
Sometimes not?
For me it was less the commute time and more planning around traffic.
Even if the commute was 30 minutes (a good day), I'd usually need to buffer time to plan for being late due to traffic accidents and construction (frequent).
Switching to remote work gave me back at least an hour every morning, and at least 1.5 hours in the evening. Anecdotally this has led to massive performance and quality of life increases.
Even if the commute was 30 minutes (a good day), I'd usually need to buffer time to plan for being late due to traffic accidents and construction (frequent).
Switching to remote work gave me back at least an hour every morning, and at least 1.5 hours in the evening. Anecdotally this has led to massive performance and quality of life increases.
Exactly. It may take only 25 minutes.
But how many of the people making up this average leave home an hour earlier than most of us just to beat traffic?
How much buffer time is then also factored in, and wasted?
No even taking into account the cognitive and emotional cost of the commute.
i.e. the subway in Paris is full of stressed out people, stinks, is more or less reliable and makes an awful lot of stressful loud noises.
I’ve switched to cycling 2 years ago, and even when I get home drenched by the rain and frozen by the wind do I still not miss the "métro". At all.
And I’d bet driving can be quite stressful too.
But how many of the people making up this average leave home an hour earlier than most of us just to beat traffic?
How much buffer time is then also factored in, and wasted?
No even taking into account the cognitive and emotional cost of the commute.
i.e. the subway in Paris is full of stressed out people, stinks, is more or less reliable and makes an awful lot of stressful loud noises.
I’ve switched to cycling 2 years ago, and even when I get home drenched by the rain and frozen by the wind do I still not miss the "métro". At all.
And I’d bet driving can be quite stressful too.
Pretty sure you're the one generalizing here by specifically selecting the US. A fair number of countries[1] have a far longer commute.
Also consider overuse of cars is a big issue environmentally, while use of public transport tends to increase one's commute (bad schedules, detours).
[1]: https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans...
Also consider overuse of cars is a big issue environmentally, while use of public transport tends to increase one's commute (bad schedules, detours).
[1]: https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans...
I was acutely aware of how my commute was affecting my lifestyle before WFH became widespread, if you think the only difference is waking up 10 minutes earlier you've lost your mind. You are the one generalizing here.
Not all commutes are created equal.
10 minutes in a car is far less pleasant (to me) than a 25 minute walk.
Also 25 minute commute means 50 minutes out of the day, every workday. That adds up.
10 minutes in a car is far less pleasant (to me) than a 25 minute walk.
Also 25 minute commute means 50 minutes out of the day, every workday. That adds up.
I've never been more productive at work than during this pandemic. I don't want to be surrounded by an audio mælstrom thanks to open office (who actually thought this was a good idea?)
Coworkers and bosses ambling over to my desk for a "quick" interruption? Meetings that only make the meeting makers feel like they've accomplished something? No thanks.
I create a space of discipline at home with discipline. If the only thing keeping you from indulging in whatever Clubhouse-flavor-of-the-week distraction is the enforcement of order from above, you need to take a strong look at what is motivating you to work your job in the first place. I specifically exempt parents: my condolences for the chaos that must be to your peace.
We need to stop treating employees like automatons to be filled by the directives of middle management and start trusting them to produce.
Coworkers and bosses ambling over to my desk for a "quick" interruption? Meetings that only make the meeting makers feel like they've accomplished something? No thanks.
I create a space of discipline at home with discipline. If the only thing keeping you from indulging in whatever Clubhouse-flavor-of-the-week distraction is the enforcement of order from above, you need to take a strong look at what is motivating you to work your job in the first place. I specifically exempt parents: my condolences for the chaos that must be to your peace.
We need to stop treating employees like automatons to be filled by the directives of middle management and start trusting them to produce.
I feel the opposite, productivity is poor or at best unpredictable when working from home.
There is a strong truth in looking at what motivates you though, for me it is just as much the interaction with colleagues working towards a common goal that is key. That goal is so much harder to accomplish in a WFH setting.
Other than that i very much agree that too many meetings is one of the biggest productivity killers.
There is a strong truth in looking at what motivates you though, for me it is just as much the interaction with colleagues working towards a common goal that is key. That goal is so much harder to accomplish in a WFH setting.
Other than that i very much agree that too many meetings is one of the biggest productivity killers.
I don't think any reasonable person will claim that office or WFH is universally better. Different strokes for different folks.
But IMO working from home did outline some inefficiencies in the office work that finally started getting more closely inspected (like the needless meetings).
But IMO working from home did outline some inefficiencies in the office work that finally started getting more closely inspected (like the needless meetings).
That's not a universally accurate assessment. It all depends on the nature of the work, the nature of the on-site work environment, and the nature of the at-home work environment. (among other factors).
I have significantly less wasted time working from home. At work, if I have 2 or 3 meetings in a day, that day is practically wasted for other work between walking to the meeting (I work on a large multi-building site), waiting for everyone to arrive, etc. Then it seems like people never want to end a meeting until its scheduled stop time even if we're done after 20 minutes. Then I have to get back to my office... Zoom has changed all of that. Zero time wasted at the beginning or end, and people don't seem to have as much of a problem saying "all right that's all we have, see you later" and ending a meeting early.
I can also get a bit more sleep in the mornings because I don't have to get ready to leave the house, commute, park, get to my office, etc. When the end of the day comes, I'm already home, giving me an automatic hour of extra time each day. You can do a lot with 5 more hours of free time each week. I get to see my kids for more time, especially my youngest, who I watch, as my wife oversees distance learning for the other two.
Even with the added distractions of working with at home with kids present, This past year has been one of the most productive in my entire career.
I'm sure that mine is neither a unique experience, but also not how it works for everyone else. But the mindset that says it's mostly more productive to work on-site is why some places ban WFH, as mine did before the pandemic.
I do, however, agree that WFH is least likely to result in the same or higher level of productivity for junior staff.
I have significantly less wasted time working from home. At work, if I have 2 or 3 meetings in a day, that day is practically wasted for other work between walking to the meeting (I work on a large multi-building site), waiting for everyone to arrive, etc. Then it seems like people never want to end a meeting until its scheduled stop time even if we're done after 20 minutes. Then I have to get back to my office... Zoom has changed all of that. Zero time wasted at the beginning or end, and people don't seem to have as much of a problem saying "all right that's all we have, see you later" and ending a meeting early.
I can also get a bit more sleep in the mornings because I don't have to get ready to leave the house, commute, park, get to my office, etc. When the end of the day comes, I'm already home, giving me an automatic hour of extra time each day. You can do a lot with 5 more hours of free time each week. I get to see my kids for more time, especially my youngest, who I watch, as my wife oversees distance learning for the other two.
Even with the added distractions of working with at home with kids present, This past year has been one of the most productive in my entire career.
I'm sure that mine is neither a unique experience, but also not how it works for everyone else. But the mindset that says it's mostly more productive to work on-site is why some places ban WFH, as mine did before the pandemic.
I do, however, agree that WFH is least likely to result in the same or higher level of productivity for junior staff.
Sorry.
*We* are not going back.
Not going back to long commutes. Open office plans and office politics.
Not going back to cheap lunch in a plastic/cardboard box that costs a lot.
Not going back to paying high rent in bad cities without any quality.
Not going back to frivolous meeting.
Now after almost 2 years we have proved that yes the company can be run remotely, several things that were "not possible" are and the ultimate thing:
We can choose where we want to live and with whom.
We are not going back as same we are not going back to cable anymore.
*We* are not going back.
Not going back to long commutes. Open office plans and office politics.
Not going back to cheap lunch in a plastic/cardboard box that costs a lot.
Not going back to paying high rent in bad cities without any quality.
Not going back to frivolous meeting.
Now after almost 2 years we have proved that yes the company can be run remotely, several things that were "not possible" are and the ultimate thing:
We can choose where we want to live and with whom.
We are not going back as same we are not going back to cable anymore.
Hear hear. Though I must say that I've only worked in an office for about three out of the last 20 years, so it'll be easy enough for me.
Office politics exist regardless
Not going back to paying developed-country wages.
Speak for yourself. I’m in no way concerned about remote work depressing wages. Competition has always been global.
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I work remotely for 10 full years now and this has always been specific to the employer and nothing else.
You think you are not...
You're not going to have a say in the matter, and I think you're going to be surprised at how many companies consider WFH to have been an unavoidable aberration from a status quo they intend to return to as quickly as possible.
Workers not having a say regarding working conditions? Sounds like a recipe for poor morale and productivity.
Depends how desperate the workers are. But I've known two companies now that lost 50% of their IT staff when they tried to enforce going back to an office so I don't think anyone can generalize.
People who have little choice will do as their employer commands. The rest will move on.
People who have little choice will do as their employer commands. The rest will move on.
For me, I think it depends on the office layout/vibe vs. the home layout/vibe. I feel much more productive at home as I don't have to listen to all the conversations surrounding me and if a manager stopped by they would often feel compelled to say something. Communicating via email is much more deliberate. Also, it seems as though the places I've worked have opted to silo projects and give them to individuals in a way that minimizes collaboration. It's also nice for people that are invited to a number of meetings for things that don't directly affect them to be able to multi-task at those times.
I also think that being watched produces a certain level of anxiety that is counter-productive.
I also think that being watched produces a certain level of anxiety that is counter-productive.
> I feel much more productive at home as I don't have to listen to all the conversations surrounding me
I know this isn't a problem for most people, but this is such a huge issue for me. If you are talking in my vicinity, my brain locks on to your speech and prevents me from thinking about anything else. Unless I am listening to someone else speaking that is closer to me / louder there is no way to mentally block this out. If I'm trying to program and someone is talking near me, my productivity drops by maybe 80%. I either put on noise cancelling headphones, ask people to talk elsewhere (which irritates people who don't understand), or get nothing done.
I know this isn't a problem for most people, but this is such a huge issue for me. If you are talking in my vicinity, my brain locks on to your speech and prevents me from thinking about anything else. Unless I am listening to someone else speaking that is closer to me / louder there is no way to mentally block this out. If I'm trying to program and someone is talking near me, my productivity drops by maybe 80%. I either put on noise cancelling headphones, ask people to talk elsewhere (which irritates people who don't understand), or get nothing done.
Yes, and I think that so many internet conversations would benefit from an explicit reminder that "People are different", and "Groups of people (teams) are even more different", so we should bear in mind that any average has a wide standard deviation, likely spanning the positive and negative domains
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> and this is especially true if some of the team members are young and inexperienced
I think this is the big one for me, at least with the experience of WFH for Covid, it is so much harder for people to ramp up and learn in a WFH situation, you can't just ask your neighbor about a weird compile issue, or why the IDE isn't able to run your tests and be helped promptly with them just showing you right away. Instead you ask in a Slack, get a slow churn of reponse, nothing helpful enough, so you then schedule an actual short meeting with someone else to walk you over it, etc. And this support doesn't naturally distribute like it would at the office, it seems it's always the same more senior person remotely who has to now help new members in these more formal ways.
I've also seen so much more just confusion around like, what to do, who's doing what, when to do it, etc. Getting everyone aligned and in-sync is much harder. And that adds a lot of overhead and creates a lot more churn I feel to projects.
On the flip side, when you have a clear task to do and you know what needs to be done and it doesn't depend on others, you can really crush through it. And you save a lot of time from commute, launches are faster, etc.
I've also found, appart from Covid, remote work is pretty nice in terms of work/life balance. You can make laundry while you work for example, saving you time in your day.
So I'm still a bit mixed feelings about WFH, I like some aspect of it, mostly no commute, convenience of being at home so I can easily cook my launches at launch time, do some laundry or have the oven repair person show up and manage them while I work and all that. But I also feel doing the actual day to day work is harder, the coordination overhead is pretty high, and everyone is more siloed, so anything that involves collaboration has more friction.
I think this is the big one for me, at least with the experience of WFH for Covid, it is so much harder for people to ramp up and learn in a WFH situation, you can't just ask your neighbor about a weird compile issue, or why the IDE isn't able to run your tests and be helped promptly with them just showing you right away. Instead you ask in a Slack, get a slow churn of reponse, nothing helpful enough, so you then schedule an actual short meeting with someone else to walk you over it, etc. And this support doesn't naturally distribute like it would at the office, it seems it's always the same more senior person remotely who has to now help new members in these more formal ways.
I've also seen so much more just confusion around like, what to do, who's doing what, when to do it, etc. Getting everyone aligned and in-sync is much harder. And that adds a lot of overhead and creates a lot more churn I feel to projects.
On the flip side, when you have a clear task to do and you know what needs to be done and it doesn't depend on others, you can really crush through it. And you save a lot of time from commute, launches are faster, etc.
I've also found, appart from Covid, remote work is pretty nice in terms of work/life balance. You can make laundry while you work for example, saving you time in your day.
So I'm still a bit mixed feelings about WFH, I like some aspect of it, mostly no commute, convenience of being at home so I can easily cook my launches at launch time, do some laundry or have the oven repair person show up and manage them while I work and all that. But I also feel doing the actual day to day work is harder, the coordination overhead is pretty high, and everyone is more siloed, so anything that involves collaboration has more friction.
> More work gets done in a dedicated space for work, surrounded by other people engaged in related work
I don't think that first part ("dedicated space for work") is so significant.
In my experience working remotely answering bug bounty reports, what most helped with working was the presence of a chat channel containing the rest of the team. It was used, in part, to discuss or ask for help with difficult reports, but primarily for making fun of stupid reports. (One of my favorites in this category being "If I zoom in too far on your mobile app, the text starts to become blurry.")
That might not sound especially productive, but you can't do it if you're not looking at the reports. You could view the channel more abstractly as providing irregular notifications of the form "I just did some work" -- participating requires you to do some work, and that helps you keep working.
I don't think that first part ("dedicated space for work") is so significant.
In my experience working remotely answering bug bounty reports, what most helped with working was the presence of a chat channel containing the rest of the team. It was used, in part, to discuss or ask for help with difficult reports, but primarily for making fun of stupid reports. (One of my favorites in this category being "If I zoom in too far on your mobile app, the text starts to become blurry.")
That might not sound especially productive, but you can't do it if you're not looking at the reports. You could view the channel more abstractly as providing irregular notifications of the form "I just did some work" -- participating requires you to do some work, and that helps you keep working.
Why is it stupid? Vector fonts should render smoothly at all scales.
It might legitimately be a bug in the app, if you're on the UI team. It's stupid because it was reported to the security team, and it has no security implications whatever. Nobody pays UI bounties.
Users are going to use whatever mechanism to provide feedback that they find first. They don't know what's a security issue, what's a bug, what's a sales request, and what's a support request. All I can say is that I hope whatever system you use for collecting security reports is shared by those other teams, and you just change the "security" tag to "ui" and move on. Because if you don't do that, you know whoever is reading that "ui bug" queue also has a slack channel where they make fun of people filing security reports as ui bugs, and then proceed to drop them on the floor.
Always be careful about shipping your org chart.
Always be careful about shipping your org chart.
Well, did you forward it to the UI team...?
No, I marked it invalid and went on with my day. As the front line of security triage, I don't even work for the company and have no contacts on the UI team. You want me to escalate it to the internal head of security? It's not going to happen.
It’s not an escalation. This would rather be an opportunity to improve the triage process to account for cross functional bugs.
Maybe you should pay UI bounties. You're certainly losing money if customers leave because your app sucks.
Funny I just said last week to my wife that I doubt I’d ever go back to a yoga studio and probably not a gym. It’s just so much more convenient and comfortable to do these things at home. Especially with kids around.
To each their own, but I'd point out that a huge reason people go to gyms/studios to work out is for the social and structured aspect of it, and there is a ton of evidence that working out with others or gym partners leads to much more consistent progress, statistically speaking. That is a big reason all of the recent Peloton and Peloton-esque programs fundamentally include a group social aspect.
I've always had the ability to work out from home, and during the pandemic I've pretty much had to, but I greatly prefer going to the gym. I'm really not social at all, but I just feel like I can get much more "in the zone" at a gym than my house.
I've always had the ability to work out from home, and during the pandemic I've pretty much had to, but I greatly prefer going to the gym. I'm really not social at all, but I just feel like I can get much more "in the zone" at a gym than my house.
The reason to go to the gym is because my kids are not there.
I love my daughter, and did just as much when she was a youngster, but I think many dedicated spaces are a benefit because they allow for greater focus, because the kids (or spouse or parent or...) are not there. I have seen no data on it, but I have the impression that experienced workers with no dependents do better in a WFH environment, than either new hires or people with family at home.
As a 41 y/o guy without kids I very much agree. I have my bad days when I can't focus well even if I am surrounded by complete silence but I am very grateful for no persistent distractions like kids when I can.
Plus many acquaintances of mine reported that they had to resort to making a small room in their apartment a dedicated home office which they had to lock in order to prevent distractions from their kids.
Plus many acquaintances of mine reported that they had to resort to making a small room in their apartment a dedicated home office which they had to lock in order to prevent distractions from their kids.
Different strokes and all but I will never return to an office to work there while at the same time me and my wife have been a complete and embarrassing failure doing a workout routine at home so we just accepted our flaws and started going to the gym regularly.
For some people like the two us, having a dedicated recreational space is motivating you to do the recreational activity. Trying to do it at home invokes thoughts like "What's the point? I'll inhale so much dust and smog, what's the healthy aspect of that?".
So for us it boiled down to a psychological lock which seems mostly bound to proper air and temperature conditioning at the gym.
For some people like the two us, having a dedicated recreational space is motivating you to do the recreational activity. Trying to do it at home invokes thoughts like "What's the point? I'll inhale so much dust and smog, what's the healthy aspect of that?".
So for us it boiled down to a psychological lock which seems mostly bound to proper air and temperature conditioning at the gym.
Depends what you're going to the gym for. If it's just to lift weights, sure, reasonable safety precautions and you're good to go at home. If you're into martial arts, gyms are a hard requirement.
If you have the luxury of space to load up a rack and some dumbbells - but it doesn't sound realistic for most people. Plus gyms are everywhere these days - it's easy to slide them into work commute so you don't have the time overhead of going there/back.
I want the option, because one day my mind might change if I have a family, but right now I absolutely hate WFH as a new-grad. I feel like I've learned almost nothing since March (or if I have, it's taken way too long).
For junior positions WFH can definitely be sub-optimal but in my eyes it also trains the juniors to over-communicate when they are stuck or are in a need of a coaching session. It's a way to distinguish the people who are way too shy for their own career good.
It's less about communication, and more about not hating my job. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion I'd rather work in a bakery or something than WFH as a programmer, because I'd at least be around people.
Well, that's a separate thing though, right?
To be fair, I too could use some more socialization but not sure that work is the ideal vector for me. I'd rather have a less stressful job on my terms (in my home office) and/or with less hours and then just proceed and make my free time more pleasant around other people.
To be fair, I too could use some more socialization but not sure that work is the ideal vector for me. I'd rather have a less stressful job on my terms (in my home office) and/or with less hours and then just proceed and make my free time more pleasant around other people.
> It's the same reason we have gyms for exercise, yoga studios for yoga, art studios for painting
No. We have gyms for exercise because there is an economy of scale. Who wants to buy a rowing machine, weight machines, stair machines, etc.
Yoga studios are because people go there to have a class led by an instructor. And most artists don’t “go” to a studio, they have a place in their house.
For typing on a computer, there’s really not much requirement for an external place unless your house is such that you don’t have a desk in which to work.
No. We have gyms for exercise because there is an economy of scale. Who wants to buy a rowing machine, weight machines, stair machines, etc.
Yoga studios are because people go there to have a class led by an instructor. And most artists don’t “go” to a studio, they have a place in their house.
For typing on a computer, there’s really not much requirement for an external place unless your house is such that you don’t have a desk in which to work.
There are multiple opportunities to lose and win in WFH, and it’s the sum of all things which we see; while sharing a physical space may come with productivity boosts, having a large amount of people travel or drive every day is also a negative for productivity.
We only have so much time in a day, and I’m not sure that the balance of productivity factors will continue to weigh obviously in the direction of in-office work.
We only have so much time in a day, and I’m not sure that the balance of productivity factors will continue to weigh obviously in the direction of in-office work.
> I feel compelled to point out that WFH in the midst of a pandemic-inspired social media freakout, does not make for a productive state of mind
Not to mention the constant "we lock / we don't lock", "kids go to school / kids don't go to school".
Not to mention the constant "we lock / we don't lock", "kids go to school / kids don't go to school".
> So it could be that WFH productivity would be better in non-pandemic times.
I tend to think this is likely true. I also tend to think that WFH productivity is improving as people adjust to it. A lot of people who found themselves suddenly WFH had to setup a workspace, buy a decent chair,desk, etc. There were also mental adjustments. Now people are pretty used to it and it's become the new normal. Going back to an office (if we do that) is also going to mean a performance hit as well because people will have to adjust to that change. Any kind of major change is going to lead to a performance hit for a period of time as people adjust to it.
I tend to think this is likely true. I also tend to think that WFH productivity is improving as people adjust to it. A lot of people who found themselves suddenly WFH had to setup a workspace, buy a decent chair,desk, etc. There were also mental adjustments. Now people are pretty used to it and it's become the new normal. Going back to an office (if we do that) is also going to mean a performance hit as well because people will have to adjust to that change. Any kind of major change is going to lead to a performance hit for a period of time as people adjust to it.
Not my experience at all. I am a lot more productive working from home.
This research paper from Harvard concludes the exact opposite and is much better researched:
https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/Work%20from%20An...
I’m sure the culture, infrastructure, and other variables as they relate to a company have an ability to greatly change the outcome.
https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/Work%20from%20An...
I’m sure the culture, infrastructure, and other variables as they relate to a company have an ability to greatly change the outcome.
It lost me in the first sentence of the body of the paper. I am not "human capital"; I am a person hired to do a job.
> from the employer’s viewpoint
This being purely subjective, and especially based on employers’ assessments only, discredits the entire study. And on top of that, these are not normal conditions - people are obviously under way more pressure and in fragile states due to the pandemic.
This being purely subjective, and especially based on employers’ assessments only, discredits the entire study. And on top of that, these are not normal conditions - people are obviously under way more pressure and in fragile states due to the pandemic.
Agreed, subjective studies like this are worse than useless, because they're destined to just reflect the inherent biases of the respondents.
IIRC Google did have some objective data that purely looked at average commit rates and lines of code before and after working from home, and they saw a significant decrease in productivity during WFH (again, to your point, this was pretty early on in the pandemic and tons of people were dealing with childcare issues, etc.)
I remember people commenting "oh, lines of code, ha ha, you can't use that to measure productivity", and while that may be true for comparing individuals and groups, across a very large sample size over time (i.e. all Google developers), this is actually an excellent objective metric to gauge productivity.
IIRC Google did have some objective data that purely looked at average commit rates and lines of code before and after working from home, and they saw a significant decrease in productivity during WFH (again, to your point, this was pretty early on in the pandemic and tons of people were dealing with childcare issues, etc.)
I remember people commenting "oh, lines of code, ha ha, you can't use that to measure productivity", and while that may be true for comparing individuals and groups, across a very large sample size over time (i.e. all Google developers), this is actually an excellent objective metric to gauge productivity.
Isn't Google famous for long work hours and providing amenities to keep people at work longer?
I would think any workplace that had a standard 50+ hour work week is going to see a drop in productivity when moving to WFH. Left to their own devices, most people in that situation are going to work less.
Is Google standard 50 hours a week?
>...IIRC Google did have some objective data that purely looked at average commit rates and lines of code before and after working from home, and they saw a significant decrease in productivity during WFH
In trying to find out more info on this, I only found references to an internal subjective survey (which as you point out are not that valuable):
>...Most notably from the June internal survey, only 31% of company engineers reported feeling "highly productive," down 8% from earlier this year. Furthermore, only 53% of engineers reportedly felt satisfied with their ability to manage their workloads. Of those, 30% spent less time coding that quarter than the previous quarter.
When google was asked for comment:
>...In a response to The Information, a Google spokesperson said the company-wide productivity rebounded after a short decline and has since exceeded pre-quarantine levels.
I don't know if this measure of productivity was objective either, but I suspect, that Google is much more interested in meeting product deadlines, numbers of deferred features and those kinds of things are fairly easy to measure. It sounds like Google's experience has been similar to every other tech company and having the bulk of people working from home has not hurt productivity.
https://austonia.com/google-struggle-with-work-from-home
In trying to find out more info on this, I only found references to an internal subjective survey (which as you point out are not that valuable):
>...Most notably from the June internal survey, only 31% of company engineers reported feeling "highly productive," down 8% from earlier this year. Furthermore, only 53% of engineers reportedly felt satisfied with their ability to manage their workloads. Of those, 30% spent less time coding that quarter than the previous quarter.
When google was asked for comment:
>...In a response to The Information, a Google spokesperson said the company-wide productivity rebounded after a short decline and has since exceeded pre-quarantine levels.
I don't know if this measure of productivity was objective either, but I suspect, that Google is much more interested in meeting product deadlines, numbers of deferred features and those kinds of things are fairly easy to measure. It sounds like Google's experience has been similar to every other tech company and having the bulk of people working from home has not hurt productivity.
https://austonia.com/google-struggle-with-work-from-home
This was where I originally remember reading the information about Google: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24759929. The linked Information article does discuss the survey but also the objective measures Google uses (like commit volume) that declined.
In the company I worked for we saw a 30%+ increase in number of commits immediately after WFH started, due to reduced time wasted in meetings and other office activities.
I don't believe Japan is a good example. Having worked for a Japanese company for about 4.5 years I was really wondering how they handle the WFH. Japanese companies are very hierarchical and permanent reviews and monitoring are required in order to reach a decision. I can see WFH not being as efficient as office presence.
Yeah, I think many are aware that Japan has a pretty special work culture, especially when it comes to the importance of butts-in-seats.
Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out super quick.
Blind guess: they actually are permanently in a state of pseudo burn-out and combat it through various means, a less individualistic mentality and gradually drop their ambition to prevent it from increasing. Also, just in general going at a really slow pace to stay sane.
> How do the Japanese work so much?
Simple answer, they don't.
They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.
Simple answer, they don't.
They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.
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It's not productive "work", it's desk warming because it's just as important (if not more) to show you're working than do work. Japan is horribly unproductive[1]:
> Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available.
Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before.
[1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...
> Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available.
Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before.
[1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...
I am not saying the following out of malice or bias because I have no vested interest in having any... but my observation on a lot of Asians has been that they'll work extremely hard to project a good image but not do actual good work.
I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
I wonder how that is measured. Irish employees don't make unusually good salaries, and their employers don't have unusually high profit margins
I also wonder. As an aside/anecdote of perhaps dubious quality, I had a mate that worked in the Office of National Statistics in the UK. He said that they'd often come up with figures for things that didn't match expectations, so they'd fudge them in case it caused a fuss.
Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.
Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.
And I suspect the tiny nature of most Japanese homes where its very unlikely you will have a spare separate room.
One thing I think is worth considering is the effect of living spaces on WFH enjoyment/productivity.
There’s a lot less living space in the typical Japanese house/apartment compared to the much of the west. A lot of the apartments young people live in in the cities are little more than bedrooms with a kitchen area and unit bathroom attached, often with poor natural lighting to boot. That wouldn’t be a pleasant space to work months on end in.
I lived for a number of years in a “2DK” (2x rooms + dining/kitchen) apartment in Tokyo. While a reasonable size by Tokyo standards, frankly it was small and cramped. I can’t imagine really enjoying WFH there.
Comparatively, I now live in Australia in a house with about 4x the floor area of that apartment. WFH here is great - I can start the day at the dining table while eating breakfast, move to my study during the day and then when I feel like a change I can move to the couch in the afternoon. I could even sit in the garden if I wanted. It’s a great environment for focusing on a particular task.
We’re doing 3 days in the office currently and I’m pushing to maintain that - office for collaboration and team building, home for focusing.
In Japan in comparison the current discussion seems to be about more people moving to the regions. That helps solve the living space problem but makes in office collaboration harder. It will be interesting to see if the trend sticks.
There’s a lot less living space in the typical Japanese house/apartment compared to the much of the west. A lot of the apartments young people live in in the cities are little more than bedrooms with a kitchen area and unit bathroom attached, often with poor natural lighting to boot. That wouldn’t be a pleasant space to work months on end in.
I lived for a number of years in a “2DK” (2x rooms + dining/kitchen) apartment in Tokyo. While a reasonable size by Tokyo standards, frankly it was small and cramped. I can’t imagine really enjoying WFH there.
Comparatively, I now live in Australia in a house with about 4x the floor area of that apartment. WFH here is great - I can start the day at the dining table while eating breakfast, move to my study during the day and then when I feel like a change I can move to the couch in the afternoon. I could even sit in the garden if I wanted. It’s a great environment for focusing on a particular task.
We’re doing 3 days in the office currently and I’m pushing to maintain that - office for collaboration and team building, home for focusing.
In Japan in comparison the current discussion seems to be about more people moving to the regions. That helps solve the living space problem but makes in office collaboration harder. It will be interesting to see if the trend sticks.
this!
also japanese work culture: don't go home until the boss leaves, which more or less translates to people being used to working under oversight, and more likely to stop working if the oversight goes away.
also japanese work culture: don't go home until the boss leaves, which more or less translates to people being used to working under oversight, and more likely to stop working if the oversight goes away.
Somewhat weird. From my own experience during the pandemic (two organizations, from lead to manager), productivity has been higher than ever.
I kinda suspected this, as I'd been doing certain work from home earlier – but I was always surprised to hear leadership exclaim their fears about WFH, and their suspicions of both efficiency and productivity.
The worst part is, though, that many are vying for a swift return to a traditional colocated work-place – even though they agree that the current situation works fine (pandemic, and its specifics aside). I've even heard some say it's different to actually be able to pop up and peek over their employees shoulders, to see "what they're actually doing", even in cases things are going better than planned already...
I kinda suspected this, as I'd been doing certain work from home earlier – but I was always surprised to hear leadership exclaim their fears about WFH, and their suspicions of both efficiency and productivity.
The worst part is, though, that many are vying for a swift return to a traditional colocated work-place – even though they agree that the current situation works fine (pandemic, and its specifics aside). I've even heard some say it's different to actually be able to pop up and peek over their employees shoulders, to see "what they're actually doing", even in cases things are going better than planned already...
I was working from home two days a week at one company, and my immediate manager pressed me to reduce it to one day. I mentioned that he'd lose an hour and a half of my productivity to the commute, and he just nodded.
Rarely saw him in the office. He wanted the concept of me being there.
Rarely saw him in the office. He wanted the concept of me being there.
Jibes with my own experience.
It infuriates me to no end that (bad) leaders would rather go by their own feeling of control, rather than look at the numbers.
It infuriates me to no end that (bad) leaders would rather go by their own feeling of control, rather than look at the numbers.
I think a lot of managers measure their own performance by how many faces they have spoken with over the course of the day.
This is Japan, very different work culture compared to the western world.
I have 5 teams, with 4-6 devs/SA, my data says we are actually getting 23% more done the last year, due to WFH, comparing with the previous 2 years.
The 23% is the total, some teams have a higher increase due to the “best” teams have not increased with much. The “less better” have a higher increase.
My case, WFH gave me the opportunity to hand out bonuses over the normal bonus and some team members feel less stressed and have time to exercise.
The 23% is the total, some teams have a higher increase due to the “best” teams have not increased with much. The “less better” have a higher increase.
My case, WFH gave me the opportunity to hand out bonuses over the normal bonus and some team members feel less stressed and have time to exercise.
I'd like to see more follow on research in normal times.
Right now, travel is difficult, restaurants are closed, events are nonexistent, etc., etc.
So, yes, people may mostly be working ok (if not great) at home -- but I wonder if that will be the same when the outside world isn't so dire and boring.
Right now, travel is difficult, restaurants are closed, events are nonexistent, etc., etc.
So, yes, people may mostly be working ok (if not great) at home -- but I wonder if that will be the same when the outside world isn't so dire and boring.
This has a big impact for me. I'll go on some hikes on the local trails but other than that I'm not doing much. No longer trips, no seeing friends, not going out to eat, no travel, etc. My job is pretty interesting and I can work on various longer term interesting projects so I'll do that if I feel like it while I otherwise might have done non-work stuff.
A stubborn refusal to adapt the work practices to a completely new scenario and take advantage from such scenario would be the major factor here, not working from home itself.
One has to ask the actual goal of anyone who refuses to adapt - do they want to perpetuate the current status quo at any cost, or do they actually want to achieve results for the company?
One has to ask the actual goal of anyone who refuses to adapt - do they want to perpetuate the current status quo at any cost, or do they actually want to achieve results for the company?
Factors affecting my WFH experience, using the factors from the article:
- Telecommunication environment: a quiet dedicated room.
- Requirements by rules and regulations that some tasks must be conducted in the office: N/A
- Types of work that cannot be completed at home: None
- Distractions from family: Not more than the distractions from people at the office (coffee walks, casual talk, loud conversations outside meeting rooms). I much rather be distracted by my family than some random dude asking about my weekend.
- Private room for work: check
- Loss of face to face communication: Yes, please.
- Lack of pressure from boss, colleagues and subordinates: N/A. I still have the same goals and the same deadlines.
- Interaction with customers: Over zoom.
- Other reasons: N/A
- Telecommunication environment: a quiet dedicated room.
- Requirements by rules and regulations that some tasks must be conducted in the office: N/A
- Types of work that cannot be completed at home: None
- Distractions from family: Not more than the distractions from people at the office (coffee walks, casual talk, loud conversations outside meeting rooms). I much rather be distracted by my family than some random dude asking about my weekend.
- Private room for work: check
- Loss of face to face communication: Yes, please.
- Lack of pressure from boss, colleagues and subordinates: N/A. I still have the same goals and the same deadlines.
- Interaction with customers: Over zoom.
- Other reasons: N/A
> I much rather be distracted by my family than some random dude asking about my weekend.
I never understood this actually. What is so bad/annoying about a colleague asking how was your weekend? When I hear similar things like "Football talk at the water cooler" etc I wonder what makes an individual hate their colleague this much that simple interactions like this become an annoyance.
I never understood this actually. What is so bad/annoying about a colleague asking how was your weekend? When I hear similar things like "Football talk at the water cooler" etc I wonder what makes an individual hate their colleague this much that simple interactions like this become an annoyance.
I never said anything about it being bad or annoying. They are just less relevant than spending more time with my family.
I prefer taking a coffee break at home and talk to my kids rather than some random colleague at work that I will likely never see again in less than 3 years.
I prefer taking a coffee break at home and talk to my kids rather than some random colleague at work that I will likely never see again in less than 3 years.
There should be a poll in HN to see who likes working from home over working in the office.
For me personally, I love working from home. The company I work for offers free lunch but the quality is terrible but the management usually invites you to a lunch meeting so I have to eat the unhealthy food. Not to mention ping pong after lunch, useless meetings and mandatory greetings (hello, how was your weekend, happy Monday, happy Friday) and etc.
For me personally, I love working from home. The company I work for offers free lunch but the quality is terrible but the management usually invites you to a lunch meeting so I have to eat the unhealthy food. Not to mention ping pong after lunch, useless meetings and mandatory greetings (hello, how was your weekend, happy Monday, happy Friday) and etc.
> Factors affecting adoption and productivity of WFH:
> "The requirements by rules and regulations that some tasks must be conducted in the office": 57.7% (part of a multiple answers question)
> "The requirements by rules and regulations that some tasks must be conducted in the office": 57.7% (part of a multiple answers question)
It's not exactly mind-blowing to see that the working populace that's under the influence of extremely dogmatic bosses had a hard time readjusting to a work format that's completely foreign to them -- especially that one exact format that is widely frowned upon there, with their culture of 16h workdays and whatnot.
Japan, for all the unexplained praise it gets in some media outlets, has been widely reported to be one of the worst places in the world in terms of a work-life balance. Nobody can generalize an entire country of course, but bad working conditions seem to be the default state of things there (I have several acquaintances and they all left Japan a year or so later after they started getting pressured into almost sleeping in the office).
Add to that that their office culture seems centered on interruptions, the much-hated by us the devs technique of "patting you on the shoulder to check how you're progressing", and the idolization of time spent in the office as opposed to "what did you actually do?", and I could have told you that productivity as Japanese understand it took a dive.
And as the currently top comment states, measuring WFH in conditions when most employees have no choice but to accept it makes for warped and likely non-objective metrics.
Japan, for all the unexplained praise it gets in some media outlets, has been widely reported to be one of the worst places in the world in terms of a work-life balance. Nobody can generalize an entire country of course, but bad working conditions seem to be the default state of things there (I have several acquaintances and they all left Japan a year or so later after they started getting pressured into almost sleeping in the office).
Add to that that their office culture seems centered on interruptions, the much-hated by us the devs technique of "patting you on the shoulder to check how you're progressing", and the idolization of time spent in the office as opposed to "what did you actually do?", and I could have told you that productivity as Japanese understand it took a dive.
And as the currently top comment states, measuring WFH in conditions when most employees have no choice but to accept it makes for warped and likely non-objective metrics.
Somewhat ironically I'm actually more collaborative w/ WFH because in the office there was no way to have a quick unscheduled conversation with someone. Meeting spaces were always occupied and talking at the crammed together desks annoys everyone. Even ignoring the commuting, health, or 'quiet space is good for productivity' arguments, contention for quiet meeting space is the fatal scalability flaw with open offices.
I did WFH remotely for 1 year from India. I had a separate room for office and productivity was high.
Moved to Germany staying in 1 Room 36 square meter apartment and can't work from home.
My meetings disturb wife. Her watching TV/Cooking disturbs me.
Now I work from office and feeling more happy. Talking to real people instead of Zoom call and going out to grab some lunch uplifts my mood
Moved to Germany staying in 1 Room 36 square meter apartment and can't work from home.
My meetings disturb wife. Her watching TV/Cooking disturbs me.
Now I work from office and feeling more happy. Talking to real people instead of Zoom call and going out to grab some lunch uplifts my mood
I don't know if "evidence from Japan" should at all be used as some example for the rest of the world. This is after all a country that is still today, using FAX machines in certain institutes. (although I've never seen one)
There's two things that makes WFH productivity incomparable to west at least. One is the ridiculously small homes majority of (young) Japanese have to live in; if you suddenly have to WFH in that house your living room, bed room, eating/cooking room + WFH office all becomes one 10-20sqm shared space. Expecting one to be productive here is kind of ludicrous. Second is the low digitization + old, conservative work culture. Low digitization means the old-school work culture can't adapt to remote work, and most people either do commute anyway (Lockdown in Japan is not legally enforceable) or just have to work in a unproductive structure to start with.
There's two things that makes WFH productivity incomparable to west at least. One is the ridiculously small homes majority of (young) Japanese have to live in; if you suddenly have to WFH in that house your living room, bed room, eating/cooking room + WFH office all becomes one 10-20sqm shared space. Expecting one to be productive here is kind of ludicrous. Second is the low digitization + old, conservative work culture. Low digitization means the old-school work culture can't adapt to remote work, and most people either do commute anyway (Lockdown in Japan is not legally enforceable) or just have to work in a unproductive structure to start with.
> This column uses survey data from Japan
Survey data is completely unreliable.
Lots of companies never reply, since they wont even trust if their own data will not be used against them. Those who reply can have an agenda.
Survey data is completely unreliable.
Lots of companies never reply, since they wont even trust if their own data will not be used against them. Those who reply can have an agenda.
It's kind of weird that they included manufacturing and retail in the mix.
At least they split it out and show different productivity for different fields.
It’s too bad that neither this paper, nor the previous detailed survey one have a breakdown of “reasons for reduced productivity by industry”. They report 80% productivity for IT, much less for retail, but it would be nice to see the “top reasons” tables by industry, to tease out “is the IT industry problem mostly bad internet and family distractions?” while Banking / Finance is mostly regulatory?
I do appreciate that they allowed people to enter values above 100 for “more productive”. I suspect very few did though. Some box plots would could be illuminating.
[1] https://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/summary/20090004.htm...
I do appreciate that they allowed people to enter values above 100 for “more productive”. I suspect very few did though. Some box plots would could be illuminating.
[1] https://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/summary/20090004.htm...
I have been WFH since early August. These have easily been the most productive months of my life. I am switching to 50% WFH soon and it's not going to be easy at all.
Looks like we are comparing productivity of well established routines, child care, lower overall stress and uncertainty, with the pandemic induced disruption, loss of childcare and many other social services, isolation, inability to optimize working conditions and so on. Any surprises that NOT being under constant threat of death, and for parents having to juggle childcare as well, is a lot more productive?
While certain tech companies say they haven't seen a reduction in performance via WFH, all my game dev friends say performance/velocity is 1/2 to 1/4th speed with WFH. Their thinking is that game devs (artists, game designers, programmers) need to collaborate, to adjust something and then call to their colleagues "how's this feel?" etc...
Employers generally do not have clear quantitive measures of employee performance [1]. With that in mind this informal survey is more likely gauging management’s perception of work performance... also during a highly unusual time.
I’m not sure this survey can really speak to WFH. We need higher quality evidence than this.
[1] Woods and West, The psychology of work and organizations, 2020
I’m not sure this survey can really speak to WFH. We need higher quality evidence than this.
[1] Woods and West, The psychology of work and organizations, 2020
I'll hold on to accepting WFH articles as valid when there isn't a pandemic around and lock downs all over the world.
I expected it to be a usual "WFH improves efficiency" (without much data) piece, so I'm surprised.
Working from home is different, definitely has its own issues those need to be solved and may not work for all teams/companies/roles and/or all the time. But what occurred to me after actually reading the article is that if WFH is what a lot of people want, it might one of the ways we'll handle the fact that due to increased general productivity a lot of jobs won't have to be 40 hours/week. (Actually, as far as I'm aware, it's already around 35 hours on average in Germany.) So instead of cutting back to 30, you might be able choose to work (mostly) from home at a 70%-ish efficiency.
(Disclaimer: I've spent most of the past 10+ years working remotely. Mostly from home, sometimes from coworking places. Now those were fun and a productivity killer for sure.)
Working from home is different, definitely has its own issues those need to be solved and may not work for all teams/companies/roles and/or all the time. But what occurred to me after actually reading the article is that if WFH is what a lot of people want, it might one of the ways we'll handle the fact that due to increased general productivity a lot of jobs won't have to be 40 hours/week. (Actually, as far as I'm aware, it's already around 35 hours on average in Germany.) So instead of cutting back to 30, you might be able choose to work (mostly) from home at a 70%-ish efficiency.
(Disclaimer: I've spent most of the past 10+ years working remotely. Mostly from home, sometimes from coworking places. Now those were fun and a productivity killer for sure.)
I don't think you can generalise. In an open plan office with tonnes of pointless meetings, and only able to help one person at a time with queries (as a tech lead), I've found working from home enabled me to be far more productive. I guess company culture, your role etc. All play a part.
Note Japanese companies typically use the worst possible open-office layout, where everyone sits in a row next to their manager and competes to be the last to leave the office so they won't look lazy.
I would strongly recommend against generalizing a study about WFH in Japan to the rest of the world. Japan's working culture is unique (and uniquely fucked up). WFH is severely stigmatized, and even working from the office is entirely unlike what western workers are likely to be used to for most Japanese employees. 80+ hour work weeks are the norm, and the productivity does not reflect the time spent. It's common to sleep at your desk or on the train just to have the appearance of being more committed to the company. Working for many Japanese companies is more like a lifestyle than a job. It can occupy your entire waking life.
The ongoing need for consensus in Japan is a WFH productivity killer as well.
The consensus culture is a productivity killer regardless of whether everyone's in office or not. Source: I work in a (Scandinavian) company with such culture, he've had the same glacial pace of progress before and after covid. It's basically the freaking UN over here. (In practice, the consensus culture means that people are free to avoid taking on any responsibility or risks regarding making tougher calls themselves - they can always "put it up for a debate" which predictably goes nowhere, as the issue has no real champion).
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Comparing a parent's in-office productivity to WFH productivity while providing childcare strikes me as oblivious.
Clearly parents aren't the entire workforce but we're not a minor portion either.
Clearly parents aren't the entire workforce but we're not a minor portion either.
> “Some tasks cannot be conducted at home although these are not required by the rules and regulations”
Anyone know where the Hanko stamp is?
Anyone know where the Hanko stamp is?
"You are not working from home; you are at your home during a crisis trying to work."
Does anyone know anything about japenese office culture that might be relevant to this? Maybe part of the SV culture like open offices makes this a whole different deal then how japan is.
Open offices and micromanagement are the default in Japan, we didn't invent them. It's actually a lot worse there because the culture is much more intense and yet the pay is low.
Even more interesting that the productivity dropped then.
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My own experience working from home probably follows this. I've gone back to work now, but I spent 6 months working at home. At the end it took me 12 hours of time to make up an 8 hour work day. It was just not sustainable for me.
My partner has had the opposite experience. They can typically knock out their work in 4-5 hours. Also, they have gained back a total commute time of ~2.5 hrs per day. That's like 24 extra days they've gotten back this past year in commute alone (24 DAYS!).
Granted they are privileged enough to have their own home office, with a door and are able to play music without headphones, and have no kids. As opposed to the office, which is in a cube farm.
Granted they are privileged enough to have their own home office, with a door and are able to play music without headphones, and have no kids. As opposed to the office, which is in a cube farm.
If you're living with someone and had a long commute you're in a more ideal situation for WFH. (I mean, if you had kids it'd probably be even more ideal, not less.)
I live alone and practically next to my office, so while there's still advantages it mainly means I have to do chores more often and cook a lot more.
I live alone and practically next to my office, so while there's still advantages it mainly means I have to do chores more often and cook a lot more.
3 days office. 2 days home.
That's what most people want where I work.
That's what most people want where I work.
I really don't like this kind of in-between.
* You're still stuck having to live near your work place (unless you are one of the few people who enjoy extra-long commutes).
* You need to have your stuff in two places, or move it several time a week (if you need or like to have stuff).
* It is a mess to coordinate, to know who's going to be there or not; if you hoped to meet Person A and Person B in the same stay; and so on.
* Remote becomes second class citizen. A remote situation which isn't thought as remote-first organisation is a pain. Too much information circulates off-band. Decision are taken without people which were remote that day. You basically just wait for people to come physically to get things done. Remote becomes some sort of bastardised day off.
* You're still stuck having to live near your work place (unless you are one of the few people who enjoy extra-long commutes).
* You need to have your stuff in two places, or move it several time a week (if you need or like to have stuff).
* It is a mess to coordinate, to know who's going to be there or not; if you hoped to meet Person A and Person B in the same stay; and so on.
* Remote becomes second class citizen. A remote situation which isn't thought as remote-first organisation is a pain. Too much information circulates off-band. Decision are taken without people which were remote that day. You basically just wait for people to come physically to get things done. Remote becomes some sort of bastardised day off.
100% agreed. Remote just doesn't work when it's not all-in. I am mind-blown that this is not obvious to so many.
This is the best of both worlds I think. I've always allowed employees to work their own hours as long as we tend to a core of 10-2. Some had 4 day work weeks, and worked in the office, many others would do one day in, one day out or some other combination. I find it makes it easier for people to co-ordinate normal life tasks like going to the bank etc. as well as work around all those things that pop up.
We're definitely going to see more hybridization and I think now that the number crunchers realize they can save on physical space (we cut down our 5 offices to only one still active), the savings will far outweigh the losses on paper.
I do think there is value in understanding nuance with an in person conversation though so i'm not sure 100% WF is the best long term plan.
We're definitely going to see more hybridization and I think now that the number crunchers realize they can save on physical space (we cut down our 5 offices to only one still active), the savings will far outweigh the losses on paper.
I do think there is value in understanding nuance with an in person conversation though so i'm not sure 100% WF is the best long term plan.
It sounds good but you don't have a decicated workspace as everyone rotates pods and you lose the face to face advantage because no one is there on on the same days because there are not enough seats / pods. Everyone ends up coming in for townhall type meetings and there are not enough workspaces.
depends on where you work. my last job did that (~20 engineers) and everyone had a dedicated desk
I like that better. My old company went rotating because they wanted a space in a certain building and had to settle for a smaller space. At that point you lose the benefits. If you keep the full space you lose out on rent savings.
I have done that before, and it worked well. Not completely without downsides, but definitely the best of both worlds (for programmers, anyway).
This country is slowly moving into the digital age but still there is a strong cultural attachment to traditions and "if it isn't broken don't fix it" mentality.
My subjective data is that overall productivity as measured by output has roughly stayed at the same level, but this is only because people I work with are now more available after hours and are more likely to work long hours.
I expect then productivity to fall when people start feeling burnout. I also feel new joiners don't get nearly enough attention and their productivity is impaired from the start. People who have worked for couple of years are getting more time for their tasks only because they have easier time fending off distractions -- but tasks behind those distractions don't necessarily go away and probably amass in some kind of technical / organizational debt due to less casual communication.
I expect then productivity to fall when people start feeling burnout. I also feel new joiners don't get nearly enough attention and their productivity is impaired from the start. People who have worked for couple of years are getting more time for their tasks only because they have easier time fending off distractions -- but tasks behind those distractions don't necessarily go away and probably amass in some kind of technical / organizational debt due to less casual communication.
Nonetheless, and I say this as someone who is by no means opposed to WFH (I have often done it, depending on the contract), the results are not surprising. More work gets done in a dedicated space for work, surrounded by other people engaged in related work, and this is especially true if some of the team members are young and inexperienced. It's the same reason we have gyms for exercise, yoga studios for yoga, art studios for painting, and so on. I'm glad that these researchers tried to measure it, but the results are not at all surprising.