Hit Japanese app Crabhouse forced to change name on iOS(japantoday.com)
japantoday.com
Hit Japanese app Crabhouse forced to change name on iOS
https://japantoday.com/category/tech/hit-japanese-app-crabhouse-forced-to-change-name-on-ios
110 comments
> one of tens or hundreds of blatant Clubhouse clones that have popped up in China
Clubhouse is powered by Agora, the Chinese audio tech provider.
Agora is founded by the same poeple from YY, a popular chat app and originally a Teamspeak clone.
Clubhouse is powered by Agora, the Chinese audio tech provider.
Agora is founded by the same poeple from YY, a popular chat app and originally a Teamspeak clone.
Aside from the point that the backing technology doesn’t define where a service is “from”, it’s still a clone popped up in China no matter what’s being cloned?
Yeah, this is certainly a gray area though. If I release an app in America — do I own that parking spot everywhere? Personally, I think not
As long as it isn't a trademark, then you don't. There are thousands of businesses in the US that have the same names as other companies.
Yep, I think Apple is imposing its own international standards for trademarks, which feels like over-stepping but countries often don't place nice in these business areas. There should be some formal, international way to register your trademark ... oh, right. We have that [1]
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_system
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_system
I thought this was about Clubhouse the project management app (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse/id1193784808).
You could argue whether it is right or not for Apple to make the call if these "Clubhouse" are the same thing, a Social Audio Chat App.
But there is nothing similar about Crabhouse and Clubhouse. The whole point of Screenshots and description was to prevent just that.
I know, it is Apple's App Store, their store their rules. But someday this will backfire.
But there is nothing similar about Crabhouse and Clubhouse. The whole point of Screenshots and description was to prevent just that.
I know, it is Apple's App Store, their store their rules. But someday this will backfire.
"To English-speakers’ eyes the difference between “Crabhouse” and “Clubhouse” are quite clear, but that’s not necessarily the case in other languages. In Japanese, the pronunciation of the letters “l” and “r” are largely interchangeable, as are the English vowels “a” and “u” in many cases. “Crab” and “club” is one such case and to make matters worse, when rendered in Japanese katakana script they become identical: クラブハウス."
This is clearly a purposefully confusing/punny name (it's unclear whether they made any money from downloads or if it was just an elaborate joke)... - it doesn't seem particularly draconian for Apple to wield their hammer in this particular instance...
This is clearly a purposefully confusing/punny name (it's unclear whether they made any money from downloads or if it was just an elaborate joke)... - it doesn't seem particularly draconian for Apple to wield their hammer in this particular instance...
> it doesn't seem particularly draconian for Apple to wield their hammer in this particular instance...
Ironic, considering the issue[1] between Apple Corps, Apple Computer and now even further blur the lines, Apple Music[2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
[2] https://music.apple.com/
Ironic, considering the issue[1] between Apple Corps, Apple Computer and now even further blur the lines, Apple Music[2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
[2] https://music.apple.com/
Just to clearify:
ク = Ku
ラ = Ra
ブ = bu
Crab would be Cu-ra-bu (Kurabu)
Club would be Cu-(l/r)a-bu (Kurabu)
ク = Ku
ラ = Ra
ブ = bu
Crab would be Cu-ra-bu (Kurabu)
Club would be Cu-(l/r)a-bu (Kurabu)
Thanks for clearing up how the words are pronounced.
The App Store screenshot shows it as being free. I'm pretty sure "elaborate joke" is the correct place to come down on this.
Also see the hastily-corrected name on the wall of "crabhome."
Also see the hastily-corrected name on the wall of "crabhome."
Isn’t this a bit unfair? The app is free (with IAP) and the screenshots are a dead giveaway what the app is about. If crabhouse was the most popular, would they force Clubhouse to change its name? Somehow I doubt it.
> it's unclear whether they made any money from downloads or if it was just an elaborate joke
The top review on Japan app store (translation by yours truly):
"recently work had been so busy that I was starting to get depressed. That's when uuddenly I wanted to eat taraba-kani (red king crab), but in my wallet was 50yen and not a Noguchi (the person on the 10,000JPY bill). I sighed and fiddled around with my phone...and that's when I discovered this app. At firsti thought this app would just be about gazing at crabs, but before I knew it my fingers had tapped the install button and I had opened the app. What a wonder! My fingers wouldn't stop using the crabs and before I knew it it was morning. As I was getting ready to go to work the crab at the top right of the screen spoke out to me, "work isn't worth it, you should quit." Tears flowed from my eyes. "That's right... I had tried hard enough." That day I resigned from my job. Today I'm living happily with 32 crabs. My house smells a little fishy but I'm having a pretty fun time now. Aah, I want to eat King crab..."
https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/crabhome/id1551908729?l=en
Looks like the app is now called crab home.
The top review on Japan app store (translation by yours truly):
"recently work had been so busy that I was starting to get depressed. That's when uuddenly I wanted to eat taraba-kani (red king crab), but in my wallet was 50yen and not a Noguchi (the person on the 10,000JPY bill). I sighed and fiddled around with my phone...and that's when I discovered this app. At firsti thought this app would just be about gazing at crabs, but before I knew it my fingers had tapped the install button and I had opened the app. What a wonder! My fingers wouldn't stop using the crabs and before I knew it it was morning. As I was getting ready to go to work the crab at the top right of the screen spoke out to me, "work isn't worth it, you should quit." Tears flowed from my eyes. "That's right... I had tried hard enough." That day I resigned from my job. Today I'm living happily with 32 crabs. My house smells a little fishy but I'm having a pretty fun time now. Aah, I want to eat King crab..."
https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/crabhome/id1551908729?l=en
Looks like the app is now called crab home.
It is my dream to some day release an app that garners a review like this
The person on the 10,000 JPY bill is Yukichi Fukuzawa.
Moreover Crab in Japanese as far as I can tell is ‘Kani’ [かに]. So it would be ‘KaniHouse’ which makes this a more obvious riff.
Japanese language isn’t so strict wrt throwing in transliterated words, eg “このスキームでワークすると直ちにアグリーはできない(kono scheme de work suru to tadachi ni agree ha dekinai)” would work in Japanese webdev
English/foreign words are commonly adopted nowadays, especially for naming of products and places.
"This is clearly a purposefully confusing/punny name"...
the measurement of trademark infringement is not how much money a competitor makes, but how much the owner loses. Is Clubhouse losing any money or users due to the confusing/punny name they themselves clearly chose for their product in the Japanese market? I bet not a single person who wants Clubhouse is deterred or confused by this obvious lighthearted satirical farce. This squabble probably brings more attention to their product, Streisand effect.
(and yes, this was an Apple move, not a Clubhouse move as far as we know, but the point stands)
the measurement of trademark infringement is not how much money a competitor makes, but how much the owner loses. Is Clubhouse losing any money or users due to the confusing/punny name they themselves clearly chose for their product in the Japanese market? I bet not a single person who wants Clubhouse is deterred or confused by this obvious lighthearted satirical farce. This squabble probably brings more attention to their product, Streisand effect.
(and yes, this was an Apple move, not a Clubhouse move as far as we know, but the point stands)
What?
It’s honestly amazing that there’s basically no way to run software on your iPhone unless Apple approves of every aspect of it, including the name.
> It’s honestly amazing that there’s basically no way to run software on your iPhone unless Apple approves of every aspect of it, including the name.
Frankly, I'm quite OK with that. Just today I was trying out some apps for tracking baby sleep/feeding/pooping (my wife expects to give birth in a week) and on iOS it was pretty nice and safe experience, with clean apps and my only concern was usability and features. I remembered my experience with Android, where I would have to rake through hundreds of fake/buggy/malicious apps.
Frankly, I'm quite OK with that. Just today I was trying out some apps for tracking baby sleep/feeding/pooping (my wife expects to give birth in a week) and on iOS it was pretty nice and safe experience, with clean apps and my only concern was usability and features. I remembered my experience with Android, where I would have to rake through hundreds of fake/buggy/malicious apps.
My younger self was all about the kind of freedom that makes people hate Apple. But my younger self didn't see the absolute disgusting mess the internet became (sorry teenage me, it's not a utopia unhindered by borders, fueled by access to free information). Now, sometimes I want Apple. Sometimes I want Disneyland. I get why at Disneyland a man mysteriously appeared out of nowhere in a red coat and white gloves to tell me and my kid friends to turn the system of a down coming from my buddies backpack speakers off because it's disruptive to the atmosphere. It's why you can have faith if you buy a Nintendo console you're going to get fun games anyone can enjoy. I get why apple doesn't want trash on their app store. When you buy Apple, you buy a device and an atmosphere. It's clean. It works.
> sorry teenage me, it's not a utopia unhindered by borders, fueled by access to free information
I'd argue that you found a walled garden inside of that unhindered utopia.
I'd argue that you found a walled garden inside of that unhindered utopia.
You are conflating "app store" with "content filter".
You can have one without the other, or you can use both. Also you could have a choice in which app store or which content filter you use.
Apple happily lets you believe those concepts are one and the same thing, though. And users buy into it.
You can have one without the other, or you can use both. Also you could have a choice in which app store or which content filter you use.
Apple happily lets you believe those concepts are one and the same thing, though. And users buy into it.
Facebook is still on iOS. Zoom is still on iOS.
I agree. It's fun to just download a few apps and try them out. I enjoy installing new apps on my phone. I've heard people say "I hate installing apps" and these people are almost always Android users.
I haven't used Android for a few years, but back when I did it wasn't uncommon for me to come across apps that did horrible things, such as completely hijacking the Android UI to display ads or whatever. I bought into Apple's walled garden specifically to get away from this garbage, and I'll be none too pleased if legislation forces my user experience to be degraded.
How is it amazing? That has been the case for game consoles and other stuff for ages. Same for most mobile phones, for the biggest part of their existance (where they just came with a few OEM supplied apps and that's it).
That said, there is a way to run software that Apple doesn't approve: jailbraking.
That said, there is a way to run software that Apple doesn't approve: jailbraking.
What amazes me more is that people accept it.
At least it doesn't take 10 days anymore
I think it was 5 years ago already when Apple got it down to 1 day
I think it was 5 years ago already when Apple got it down to 1 day
that’s not true. this applies to the app store
You can say this about any closed platform. There's nothing wrong with closed platforms having these policies if they are advertised and designed as such. Apple has been consistent from day one.
there are other options, buy an Android or Linux mobile device if you want something a bit more open.
It happens on open platforms, too. Trademark lawyer sends a cease and desist. Unless you’re flush with cash, you rename the app.
> Unless you’re flush with cash, you rename the app.
Or if you're willing to take the gamble. My default response to C&Ds (and other similar notices) that have no actual legal justifiability behind them is a nice succinct "fuck off", and I've yet to receive any follow-up from about a dozen such interactions.
Now at least some of those "legal notices" were clearly from people who had never interacted with a lawyer in their lives (my personal favourite was someone who insisted that having their username on a ban list for cheating in a video game was a violation of the GDPR), but there's a lot of entities who have a track record of spamming anyone they can find with vague threats in the hope that some people will cave in to their bullying, fully aware that they can do absolutely nothing to those who don't.
I'm no expert on Japanese trademark law, but I suspect it's very unlikely that Clubhouse has any case here.
Or if you're willing to take the gamble. My default response to C&Ds (and other similar notices) that have no actual legal justifiability behind them is a nice succinct "fuck off", and I've yet to receive any follow-up from about a dozen such interactions.
Now at least some of those "legal notices" were clearly from people who had never interacted with a lawyer in their lives (my personal favourite was someone who insisted that having their username on a ban list for cheating in a video game was a violation of the GDPR), but there's a lot of entities who have a track record of spamming anyone they can find with vague threats in the hope that some people will cave in to their bullying, fully aware that they can do absolutely nothing to those who don't.
I'm no expert on Japanese trademark law, but I suspect it's very unlikely that Clubhouse has any case here.
It is true that as a consumer, I can avoid Apple products. The real issue relates to the options open to app publishers, that is, people who want to distribute an app.
There is no viable alternative for a company wishing to publish an app: you have to target iOS or you perish. Many companies today need to have an iOS app. For example, a bank, or a big chain grocery outlet, probably needs an iOS app to exist in the market. This isn't a tiny niche area which can be avoided.
The only way you can publish an app is with Apple's approval. Therefore, Apple are exercising a significant degree of market power.
In the US, the idea that because a company is private it can trade however it pleases has been rejected since 1890 when the Sherman Act was introduced. It's the same in most capitalist economies. The conduct of companies is subject to reasonable regulation to ensure healthy competition.
I've established earlier that Apple has significant market power in the mobile app space. Because of that, it's fair that we ask Apple to be reasonable when deciding what apps to approve, and the conditions on which they approve them, because they are exercising a significant degree of market power.
This is a space calling for regulation. Apple and Google should not be free to reject or impose conditions on apps as they wish. We have a right, as the people who make rules about how companies may trade, to ask for them to be regulated when they are exercising a significant degree of market power.
There is no viable alternative for a company wishing to publish an app: you have to target iOS or you perish. Many companies today need to have an iOS app. For example, a bank, or a big chain grocery outlet, probably needs an iOS app to exist in the market. This isn't a tiny niche area which can be avoided.
The only way you can publish an app is with Apple's approval. Therefore, Apple are exercising a significant degree of market power.
In the US, the idea that because a company is private it can trade however it pleases has been rejected since 1890 when the Sherman Act was introduced. It's the same in most capitalist economies. The conduct of companies is subject to reasonable regulation to ensure healthy competition.
I've established earlier that Apple has significant market power in the mobile app space. Because of that, it's fair that we ask Apple to be reasonable when deciding what apps to approve, and the conditions on which they approve them, because they are exercising a significant degree of market power.
This is a space calling for regulation. Apple and Google should not be free to reject or impose conditions on apps as they wish. We have a right, as the people who make rules about how companies may trade, to ask for them to be regulated when they are exercising a significant degree of market power.
It's perfectly reasonable to not distribute on Apple platforms. Many companies choose to do this, and have for decades!
The viable alternative is a web page. But yes, if you want the security and performance supported on a native Apple platform, you have to play by Apple's rules.
Harm to companies isn't harm to consumers.
The viable alternative is a web page. But yes, if you want the security and performance supported on a native Apple platform, you have to play by Apple's rules.
Harm to companies isn't harm to consumers.
Except when Apple neglects web page technology (example: push notifications are available on every browser platform except iOS).
And harm to companies is harm to consumers when they purchase products with applications that get taken away due to Apple (example: I upgraded my iPhone to play Fortnite, which was available on iOS at the time of purchase -- now it's not).
And harm to companies is harm to consumers when they purchase products with applications that get taken away due to Apple (example: I upgraded my iPhone to play Fortnite, which was available on iOS at the time of purchase -- now it's not).
Competition law should work in the inserts of consumers, not private business. As long as consumers are voluntarily choosing to lock themselves behind this walled garden, I don't see why their user experience should be degraded to further business interests.
I think your point answered by this: 'Businesses' are 'consumers' in the app distribution market. Again, you are looking at it from the perspective of phone users, but that's not the market which I'm saying is potentially anti-competitive.
Even then, it's clear that Google aspires to be more like Apple with every iteration of their software. And the number of people opting for Linux at this point are insignificant.
Apple has been consistent from day one
They have only been consistent in having a walled garden. Their rules have been inconsistent in how the rules are applied.
They have only been consistent in having a walled garden. Their rules have been inconsistent in how the rules are applied.
It amazes that that this is still considered amazing. Apple is the gatekeeper of software running on the app store, always has been, probably always will be (modulo a successful anti-trust campaign I suppose).
If you want to be able to decide what runs on your device, don't get an iphone. That's why I don't own one myself. If on the other hand you want the peace of mind of letting Apple gatekeep the software you can use on your device, then it makes perfect sense.
As someone who's spent more hours than I really care to count removing all sorts of crapware, browser extensions and website notifications from friends and family's PCs, I definitely see where Apple is coming from here.
Enforcing naming conventions so that apps do what they say and say what they do doesn't strike me as particularly draconian or unexpected in this context. It's not a bug, it's a feature, and if that's a problem for you then don't buy iphones.
If you want to be able to decide what runs on your device, don't get an iphone. That's why I don't own one myself. If on the other hand you want the peace of mind of letting Apple gatekeep the software you can use on your device, then it makes perfect sense.
As someone who's spent more hours than I really care to count removing all sorts of crapware, browser extensions and website notifications from friends and family's PCs, I definitely see where Apple is coming from here.
Enforcing naming conventions so that apps do what they say and say what they do doesn't strike me as particularly draconian or unexpected in this context. It's not a bug, it's a feature, and if that's a problem for you then don't buy iphones.
>If you want to be able to decide what runs on your device, don't get an iphone. That's why I don't own one myself. If on the other hand you want the peace of mind of letting Apple gatekeep the software you can use on your device, then it makes perfect sense.
To further your point, people forget that Android devices often (if not usually) come preinstalled with OEM and carrier app stores, in addition to the Google Play Store. The Samsung App Store being the most prominent example.
Carriers love to control the experience (more revenue potential), and they were the original mobile app distribution platforms. If there was such a demand for alternative app stores, the carries would aggressively push their own alternate app stores onto consumers.
To further your point, people forget that Android devices often (if not usually) come preinstalled with OEM and carrier app stores, in addition to the Google Play Store. The Samsung App Store being the most prominent example.
Carriers love to control the experience (more revenue potential), and they were the original mobile app distribution platforms. If there was such a demand for alternative app stores, the carries would aggressively push their own alternate app stores onto consumers.
Enforcing naming conventions so that apps do what they say and say what they do doesn't strike me as particularly draconian or unexpected in this context.
Uber, Tinder, Twitter, and countless others would dispute the "Apple just want's accurate app name descriptions" theory. And in this case "Crabhouse" is a highly accurate description, or at least more so than many others.
Uber, Tinder, Twitter, and countless others would dispute the "Apple just want's accurate app name descriptions" theory. And in this case "Crabhouse" is a highly accurate description, or at least more so than many others.
Don't forget 'Apple' :)
I agree that it's very arbitrary, but the justification that it could set a precedent by allowing effectively "copycat" application using spelling to mislead users holds some water IMO. It's especially problematic when application names are translated in other scripts and languages, which is the case here.
Imagine if a south african made a "facebok" app to share pictures of goats (bok meaning goat in afrikaans), I'm sure it would be rejected on the same grounds.
But I agree that the decision is very arbitrary and it can be frustrating if you're on the receiving end, but such is life on Apple's walled garden. Like it or leave it.
Imagine if a south african made a "facebok" app to share pictures of goats (bok meaning goat in afrikaans), I'm sure it would be rejected on the same grounds.
But I agree that the decision is very arbitrary and it can be frustrating if you're on the receiving end, but such is life on Apple's walled garden. Like it or leave it.
Given that, when I search for 'clubhouse' or 'slack' or 'google maps' in the app store, the first result is an ad for a competitor, I'm not sure Apple gives a shit about user confusion?
As usual, Apple's principals are steadfast only as long as they can't find a way to violate them and extract more value from their customer.
As someone who has gone through multiple clean installs back in the day, I finally caved in and switched to an iPhone a few summers ago. I didn’t want to deal with the crapware and security holes that won’t be patched after merely two years.
I still have an old HTC One that I have managed to install a more recent OS on. It’s unbearably slow. My mom’s SE from around the time still works great in comparison.
I still have an old HTC One that I have managed to install a more recent OS on. It’s unbearably slow. My mom’s SE from around the time still works great in comparison.
This - my parents phones keep getting updates after purchase. They never updated their cheap android (or maybe updates lagged badly and there were none). People are our paying EXTRA for Apple gate keeping pretty happily
This is silly. They could still keep the store strict and let you side load apps like on Android or the Mac. We would all lose nothing and only gain.
I was trying to distribute a macOS app to a friend to test it out. The friend said their Mac told them the app was damaged and they should move it to the Trash.
Apparently I have to get a Developer account, obtain a Developer ID certificate, sign every build with this certificate, and upload the build to Apple to have them "notarize" the signature.
The alternative is to teach my friend how to run obscure commands in the Terminal or disable this "Gatekeeper" (yes, such an unironic name) feature altogether, which requires some scary steps such as disabling SIP. I could be wrong about that last part, but I don't own a Mac so I'm more inclined to just not build software for it.
Apparently I have to get a Developer account, obtain a Developer ID certificate, sign every build with this certificate, and upload the build to Apple to have them "notarize" the signature.
The alternative is to teach my friend how to run obscure commands in the Terminal or disable this "Gatekeeper" (yes, such an unironic name) feature altogether, which requires some scary steps such as disabling SIP. I could be wrong about that last part, but I don't own a Mac so I'm more inclined to just not build software for it.
System Preferences -> Security and Privacy.
You’ll find an override toggle there. You can also use Right Click -> Open when launching the app. And no, you don’t need to disable SIP to disable Gatekeeper which can be done through sudo spctl —-master-disable.
You’ll find an override toggle there. You can also use Right Click -> Open when launching the app. And no, you don’t need to disable SIP to disable Gatekeeper which can be done through sudo spctl —-master-disable.
Right-click + Open resulted in the same error dialog; I presume this has something to do with Big Sur. The option to allow apps from "Anywhere" is also not available in the preferences pane.
Right-click + Open has to be done twice to work.
The anywhere option is hidden by default, use sudo spctl —-master-disable from Terminal instead, which flips Gatekeeper settings to Anywhere.
Edit: there's also this path: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/415713/verify-code... which doesn't seem to activate Gatekeeper as part of the install process.
The anywhere option is hidden by default, use sudo spctl —-master-disable from Terminal instead, which flips Gatekeeper settings to Anywhere.
Edit: there's also this path: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/415713/verify-code... which doesn't seem to activate Gatekeeper as part of the install process.
> We would all lose nothing and only gain.
It's really not that hard to see how many would lose a whole lot if this feature was available.
If side-loading was allowed and tons of users side-loaded pirated games I'm sure these users would gain, but would the developers? Wouldn't they call on Apple to stop this? I mean the headlines just write themselves: "Apple is complicit and profiting from piracy by selling phones on which it's trivial to install pirated games".
If people started installing random software they heard of on social media, how would the image of the iPhone be changed by the inevitable malware that people would install? "This new iOS virus steals your data and private photos".
What about all the spyware apps that would get side-loaded onto the phones of unsuspecting spouses? "Woman murdered by psycho ex who tracked her every move through her phone".
It takes a little bit more than "it's silly we would all only gain" to make this argument.
It's really not that hard to see how many would lose a whole lot if this feature was available.
If side-loading was allowed and tons of users side-loaded pirated games I'm sure these users would gain, but would the developers? Wouldn't they call on Apple to stop this? I mean the headlines just write themselves: "Apple is complicit and profiting from piracy by selling phones on which it's trivial to install pirated games".
If people started installing random software they heard of on social media, how would the image of the iPhone be changed by the inevitable malware that people would install? "This new iOS virus steals your data and private photos".
What about all the spyware apps that would get side-loaded onto the phones of unsuspecting spouses? "Woman murdered by psycho ex who tracked her every move through her phone".
It takes a little bit more than "it's silly we would all only gain" to make this argument.
It amazes me that people can still be so obtuse and keep parroting how you just don’t need to get an iPhone. In a market where you are stuck between two choices, it isn’t so easy to just cut one.
Apple’s day of reckoning is coming closer, I believed the EU will rein them in and I can’t wait to see people on HN defend them then.
Apple’s day of reckoning is coming closer, I believed the EU will rein them in and I can’t wait to see people on HN defend them then.
I really don't care to defend Apple in particular, I think the only Apple product I've ever owned was an old school hard-drive ipod over a decade ago.
It's just that Apple has always been pretty clear that it's going to push whatever arbitrary rules it sees fit to ensure a certain level of quality on its platform and that's par for the course.
I agree that de-facto having to choose between Android on one hand and iphones on the other is not ideal and I'd like more competition in this space, but at least there is an alternative and there are plenty of Android smartphones that can be rooted to give you full access if you so desire. It's not ideal, but I really find it hard to find a flaw in Apple's approach to these things if their objective is to create a somewhat "premium" curated platform.
It's just that Apple has always been pretty clear that it's going to push whatever arbitrary rules it sees fit to ensure a certain level of quality on its platform and that's par for the course.
I agree that de-facto having to choose between Android on one hand and iphones on the other is not ideal and I'd like more competition in this space, but at least there is an alternative and there are plenty of Android smartphones that can be rooted to give you full access if you so desire. It's not ideal, but I really find it hard to find a flaw in Apple's approach to these things if their objective is to create a somewhat "premium" curated platform.
The problem with that logic is that it doesn’t address how this situation came to be. Apple has been consistent about their product vision since basically day one, and on day one they were the underdog... a drop in the pond. The thing is that over YEARS the market (people) consistently voted with their wallets to validate this vision. That’s why they are what they are now.
This has two implications: 1) The reason it’s happening is due to long term choice in the market, i.e. this ecosystem is filling a need that whiners are ignoring, and 2) It ignores the fact that if your stated hopes actually came to pass, someone else would just execute on good hardware with a walled garden (with the resulting more consistent and reliable experience) and become popular AGAIN... after all, that’s what just happened this time.
People will answer this post saying “that’s not true, you can totally have the iOS experience with side-loading/whatever”. Those people also likely believe that the “right communism” just hasn’t been tried yet. If one could actually do this then likely someone would have tried it and succeeded already. Another way to realize that is to understand you are just describing Android, and a perfectly valid existing choice (actually, several choices in a family). Additionally, those people are ignoring the fact that the security/convenience/consistency trade-offs made in any ecosystem do have consequences (positive and negative from varying perspectives).
Which leads us back to the parent: If one wants a different trade-off (which is totally valid and I have happily owned and developed for both systems in the past) then pick a different ecosystem and buy into it. MY personal pie in the sky wish is that people would quit pissing on other people who don’t want to be forced to make THEIR choice. Please take your choices and stop advocating to take MINE away.
People will answer this post saying “that’s not true, you can totally have the iOS experience with side-loading/whatever”. Those people also likely believe that the “right communism” just hasn’t been tried yet. If one could actually do this then likely someone would have tried it and succeeded already. Another way to realize that is to understand you are just describing Android, and a perfectly valid existing choice (actually, several choices in a family). Additionally, those people are ignoring the fact that the security/convenience/consistency trade-offs made in any ecosystem do have consequences (positive and negative from varying perspectives).
Which leads us back to the parent: If one wants a different trade-off (which is totally valid and I have happily owned and developed for both systems in the past) then pick a different ecosystem and buy into it. MY personal pie in the sky wish is that people would quit pissing on other people who don’t want to be forced to make THEIR choice. Please take your choices and stop advocating to take MINE away.
> Those people also likely believe that the “right communism” just hasn’t been tried yet.
It’s crazy anyone could believe that, if anything besides Marxist-Leninist or Marxist-Stalinist communism could be possible then of course it would already happened and thus cannot possibly exist. History is over.
It’s crazy anyone could believe that, if anything besides Marxist-Leninist or Marxist-Stalinist communism could be possible then of course it would already happened and thus cannot possibly exist. History is over.
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It's honestly amazing to me that the most predictable comment is also the most tired. Software philosophies differ.
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In exchange for an audience of 1.65 billion.
Why is that amazing? I pay Apple a premium for that feature.
Not everyone considers it a feature, and I'm glad that other products exist to provide choice in the market. But I do, and so do many others.
Not everyone considers it a feature, and I'm glad that other products exist to provide choice in the market. But I do, and so do many others.
That's a feature for us iPhone users, not a bug. I don't need to consider risk when I do anything on an iPhone as there is next to no risk.
The actual reason for this aside, I would be much more interested in using CrabHouse than ClubHouse, entirely based on the description of the two and my experience with internet communities.
Wait, crabhouse is older than clubhouse and is forced to change its name? That's unfair.
Should’ve renamed it Sosumi.
Just change it to Crabclub.
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Good for him. I'd just have made it a PWA so Apple can't stick their grubby paws on my stuff any more.
Apple needs to be made to stop; clearly not just for this random crab app lol but their absolutely heinous business practices need to be put to an end.
Apple needs to be made to stop; clearly not just for this random crab app lol but their absolutely heinous business practices need to be put to an end.
Maybe they should put a maximum Damerau–Levenshtein distance in their T&C's to make it clearer for future developers?
That would make it harder for Apple to apply their double standards at will. Tech companies like it when the most specific they have to get is "you violated the guidelines".
Yup, they even remove your app if you have a trademark on the name but not the backdoor connections with Apple. Harder to do that with an actual documented process:
https://www.worldtrademarkreview.com/brand-management/clubho...
https://www.worldtrademarkreview.com/brand-management/clubho...
I agree the process with google and apple is fickle and horrible. However,I did read the article you linked, since the social media app was using the mark "clubhouse" first, they would have legal priority. To win trademark infringement cases generally you need to prove there is confusion and priority.
If you happen to later get a trademark through an office, in most jurisdictions you don't get to "steal" those rights. They are quite straightforward to cancel, although it takes some time.
That said, Apple and Google's policies are fickle and confusing and indeed your best bet is to have connections to their companies. IMO google is worse because Apple has a group you talk to, and google has you submit forms to something they don't typically respond to.
If you happen to later get a trademark through an office, in most jurisdictions you don't get to "steal" those rights. They are quite straightforward to cancel, although it takes some time.
That said, Apple and Google's policies are fickle and confusing and indeed your best bet is to have connections to their companies. IMO google is worse because Apple has a group you talk to, and google has you submit forms to something they don't typically respond to.
Well, a minimum distance of 1 seems reasonable. As the article notes, these are the same words in Katakana, and the punny time was clearly intended to ride on Clubhouse's coattails.
Making it clearer for developers is the opposite of what they want. The more obscure the rule, and the more convoluted the appeals process (if one even exists), the easier it is for the dictator to control their domain.
Time to build Crabhouse on Android and force Clubhouse off when they want to join.
"Not available in your country"
Why do people hate Canada?
Why do people hate Canada?
Is 150,000 downloads enough to attain "hit" status in the iOS world? On Android, anything less than half a million or so is somewhat niche. 150K is a respectable number, but just saying.
Also, was the takedown initiated by the Clubhouse owner? Seems like the ill will they have created is not worth whatever imagined advantage.
Also, was the takedown initiated by the Clubhouse owner? Seems like the ill will they have created is not worth whatever imagined advantage.
Hmmmmm. That feels really broken. It is impossible to even get into Clubhouse... how in the hell can it be so popular that a private club app gets to win in that case.
Someone from Apple is on the board of the people invested in Clubhouse? Someone got paid. That feels a lot like pay-play schemes from the recording industry and radio.
Someone from Apple is on the board of the people invested in Clubhouse? Someone got paid. That feels a lot like pay-play schemes from the recording industry and radio.
> It is impossible to even get into Clubhouse
Is it? Don't you just need an acquaintance on the inside? I got invited by someone I worked with once upon a time shortly after installing the app just to see what all the fuzz was about.
Is it? Don't you just need an acquaintance on the inside? I got invited by someone I worked with once upon a time shortly after installing the app just to see what all the fuzz was about.
> Someone from Apple is on the board of the people invested in Clubhouse?
Almost certainly. Or someone from Clubhouse called Apple board member "Al Gore" and told him to fix it.
https://247wallst.com/technology-3/2020/08/04/who-is-on-appl...
He's been a "fixer" for many Apple issues, including getting Steve Jobs deflected from a back-dated stock option scam. (Jobs paid himself $1/year to beat payroll and income tax, and was compensated in backdated stock options, so he'd only have to pay the long-term capital gains tax rate)
Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/steve-jobs-haunted-by-back...
Almost certainly. Or someone from Clubhouse called Apple board member "Al Gore" and told him to fix it.
https://247wallst.com/technology-3/2020/08/04/who-is-on-appl...
He's been a "fixer" for many Apple issues, including getting Steve Jobs deflected from a back-dated stock option scam. (Jobs paid himself $1/year to beat payroll and income tax, and was compensated in backdated stock options, so he'd only have to pay the long-term capital gains tax rate)
Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/steve-jobs-haunted-by-back...
I didn’t see any mention in your source about Al Gore
> It is impossible to even get into Clubhouse... how in the hell can it be so popular that a private club app gets to win in that case.
Making their treatment of Hey even more bullshit.
Making their treatment of Hey even more bullshit.
Fascinating, thanks! So Apple computers used to have synthesizer/sound chips, and still might if it wasn't for the Beatles!
This is about the Ensoniq synth chip, with 32 oscillators, that was in the Apple IIGS: http://www.buchty.net/ensoniq/5503.html
This is about the Ensoniq synth chip, with 32 oscillators, that was in the Apple IIGS: http://www.buchty.net/ensoniq/5503.html
There is already an app called Clubhouse which is a project management application/tool. What about that?
Isn't that the 'other' app in this story? Or have I missed something?
Clubhouse is a voice based rooms social app that's all the rage these days.
What's odd is actual "similar name" scams are so common on iOS Store that the only good way to find the correct app quickly is go to the website of the company whose app it is and look for the link there. I had to do this yesterday to get the right app for my Insurance company.
Look for deceptively-named apps around everything, especially Microsoft products. Apple doesn't seem to care about these....
Look for deceptively-named apps around everything, especially Microsoft products. Apple doesn't seem to care about these....
> “Crab” and “club” is one such case and to make matters worse, when rendered in Japanese katakana script they become identical: クラブハウス.
Apple already allows apps with similar names, as long as they're not deliberately misleading users.
The Clubhouse social media app is actually named "Clubhouse: Drop-in audio chat" ( https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse-drop-in-audio-chat/i... )
A project management company already has the app named "Clubhouse" ( https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse/id1193784808 )
Cloning Clubhouse with similar sounding names is a trend in other countries, where companies are trying to capitalize on Clubhouse's popularity.
My favorite is "Club Horse" which is one of tens or hundreds of blatant Clubhouse clones that have popped up in China: https://twitter.com/pitdesi/status/1369682085833711618