Exploring the software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships(stackoverflow.blog)
stackoverflow.blog
Exploring the software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships
https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/05/10/dont-push-that-button-exploring-the-software-that-flies-spacex-starships/
117 comments
The flight software is actually a real-time (aka deterministic) embedded system software. And the control loop is the typical control loop found in embedded systems: 1 - read data from sensors through ADC (Analog-To-Digital Converters), I2C, SPI, CAN (Controller Area Network) and so on; 2 - compute the output to actuators, such as motors, hydraulic cylinders, valves, motors, lights and so on, using some control law and the current state; 3 - repeat the cycle. The algorithm that drives the output may be based on algorithms from control theory, namely state space model, PID control or Kalman filter. The computers that they may be using might be single-board computers based on ARM-core, MIPS-core, PowerPC or even X86 variant for embedded systems and/or lots of microcontrollers. Before the advent of computers, the control theory algorithms were implemented using "analog computers", which are specially designed analog circuits for computing differential equations.
Control theory algorithms can be developed using tools such as Matlab, Matlab-Simulink, Modelica or Scilab-Scicos (Open-Source) from Inria. Besides C or C++, another language used in embedded systems like that is Ada, which is much safer and reliable than both C and C++.
Control theory algorithms can be developed using tools such as Matlab, Matlab-Simulink, Modelica or Scilab-Scicos (Open-Source) from Inria. Besides C or C++, another language used in embedded systems like that is Ada, which is much safer and reliable than both C and C++.
I can't really think of any other way of doing it. Interrupts? That would be bonkers though.
You could abstractly structure the computation as a graph (there are many concrete approaches to that) and only recompute the parts that change due to changed input or changed intermediate results.
If you have multiple outputs you can also have a scheduling/prioritization system for the subtasks.
And yes, use interrupts or multiple timers to detect only changed parts without having to compare current input to previous input.
It's basically the same problem as updating a browser DOM in response to application state changes.
If you have multiple outputs you can also have a scheduling/prioritization system for the subtasks.
And yes, use interrupts or multiple timers to detect only changed parts without having to compare current input to previous input.
It's basically the same problem as updating a browser DOM in response to application state changes.
By 'abstractly structure the computation as a graph' you mean 'structure the journey of the rocket as a graoh'?
No, as in a the graph starts from nodes corresponding to sensor inputs, with edges going to nodes that represent computations based on those, to further computations, to the outputs that drive actuators.
If only one sensor input changes then intermediate computations that don't depend on it don't need to be updated.
If only one sensor input changes then intermediate computations that don't depend on it don't need to be updated.
Right. I can see how that could be useful in some situations but presumably it wouldn't work very well for a very dynamic situation like a rocket in flight (changing height, orientation, fuel, thrust every millisecond)
And you still need a control loop to look for sensor changes? Its just a way of caching most of the computation?
And you still need a control loop to look for sensor changes? Its just a way of caching most of the computation?
It can work well for dynamic event-driven problems, with no need for a central busy loop[1]. Any sensor changes are responsible for triggering an update in any nodes that depend on it, who are responsible for triggering nodes that depend on those, and so on. One way to do it: abstract class Node, which has a list of child nodes that it loops through and alerts whenever there's been a state change in the parent node.
[1] There is a busy loop but it's only there to trigger tasks on a timer.
[1] There is a busy loop but it's only there to trigger tasks on a timer.
One reason why this is dangerous is that you can see extremely large changes in the CPU load. For a bunch of cycles, there's apparently nothing to do, then there's a whole bunch of stuff to do, then there's almost nothing etc.
This makes it hard to reason about the overall capacity of the system (in terms of numbers of sensors and actuators). You will always end up uncertain whether you've ever really evaluated the "full load" condition, even if you formally test it in ways that say you have.
This makes it hard to reason about the overall capacity of the system (in terms of numbers of sensors and actuators). You will always end up uncertain whether you've ever really evaluated the "full load" condition, even if you formally test it in ways that say you have.
I’ve never seen this implemented well in a real-time setup. I’ve come to associate it with everything falling apart and otherwise being taped together in weird ways to function.
It sounds elegant, but I’m not convinced there’s a benefit to a model of abstractions of abstractions like this unless it’s done at the language level. In practice, I’ve only seen this produce a web of race conditions, performance issues, and system complexity. My experience is anecdotal.
It sounds elegant, but I’m not convinced there’s a benefit to a model of abstractions of abstractions like this unless it’s done at the language level. In practice, I’ve only seen this produce a web of race conditions, performance issues, and system complexity. My experience is anecdotal.
> I’m not convinced there’s a benefit
I've seen it work well once, but others struggled to contribute to it because it was so complicated and it added little benefit to the usual busy loop approach. So I'm in the same boat as you.
I've seen it work well once, but others struggled to contribute to it because it was so complicated and it added little benefit to the usual busy loop approach. So I'm in the same boat as you.
Right, but since you typically want timing guarantees (for example, "respond to change in measured acceleration within 20ms"), you'd often end up structuring and resourcing everything for the worst case (everything needs to be computed) anyways... which means that your graph optimization didn't end up saving any resources.
Also, there sometimes ARE interrupts meshed in with these main loop based systems (for whatever reason). They just aren't predominant. If your willing to through more hardware at things, you can typically always transform anything into a buffer.
Also, there sometimes ARE interrupts meshed in with these main loop based systems (for whatever reason). They just aren't predominant. If your willing to through more hardware at things, you can typically always transform anything into a buffer.
for battery electric use cases it saves energy: you do just the necessary computations and you sleep the CPU until the next cycle. if little has changed you can sleep a lot. if a lot of rumpus is happening, you use the full cycle.
That pretty well describes the board in front of me ATM. Most of the system runs on a 20ms (I think) tick to manage the sensor read/evaluate/control loops, but there's a 10kHz timer interrupt always going that handles commutation of a stepper motor if it needs to run. 99.9% of the time, the interrupt fires, sees there's nothing to do and just returns.
But surely you can still do that, while maintaining compliance to the "event loop" interface...
Remind me not to drive a vehicle where you implemented the control systems.
This is a great example of a little knowledge being dangerous. There's a reason control systems are not implemented the same way as a browser DOM. There's a reason control systems are designed to avoid subtasks, conditional execution, interrupts (as much as possible) and complex data models. The reasons are pretty damn solid, IMO.
Conceptually, you can talk about the two domains as being somehow equivalent. That says nothing about the appropriate implementations.
This is a great example of a little knowledge being dangerous. There's a reason control systems are not implemented the same way as a browser DOM. There's a reason control systems are designed to avoid subtasks, conditional execution, interrupts (as much as possible) and complex data models. The reasons are pretty damn solid, IMO.
Conceptually, you can talk about the two domains as being somehow equivalent. That says nothing about the appropriate implementations.
Seems like a really clean and testable system, too. Can make a harness with a set of inputs, run the cycle and test outputs consistently. Performance is also easily checked, each cycle needs to run without 100ms for the 10hz systems, I guess, including garbage collection.
Nice it see things kept this simple.
Nice it see things kept this simple.
Pretty sure they use a language without a garbage collector for the control software. Probably C or ADA. Look at the FAA specifications for more guidelines. For airplanes it's DO-178C I think, not sure about rockets.
EDIT: One of the coolest projects I saw in recent time was CoPilot, which is a Haskell dialect that compiles down to C control loops which are statically guaranteed to run in constant time and memory. There is also arduino-copilot for if you want to play with ultra-hard real time software but can't afford an entire rocket.
EDIT: One of the coolest projects I saw in recent time was CoPilot, which is a Haskell dialect that compiles down to C control loops which are statically guaranteed to run in constant time and memory. There is also arduino-copilot for if you want to play with ultra-hard real time software but can't afford an entire rocket.
According to the Reddit AMA last year SpaceX use: "C & C++ for flight software, HTML, JavaScript & CSS for displays and python for testing"
Yes, this stuff is nice.
But it is worth noting that these control loops can often have some sort of memory, so you normally need to test over multiple cycles - you usually have a test vector to load in, and watch for the response vector.
Trivial example would be if you had a PID controller implemented into your main loop. Your main loop would be storing the integral and "previous" error term.
But it is worth noting that these control loops can often have some sort of memory, so you normally need to test over multiple cycles - you usually have a test vector to load in, and watch for the response vector.
Trivial example would be if you had a PID controller implemented into your main loop. Your main loop would be storing the integral and "previous" error term.
Equivalent to handling an additionaanl sensor input and an additional output, no?
Yes, you could in principle convert any memory within a given loop into a separate unit. You just gotta pick between the tradeoffs between having more I/O and software/hardware units, versus having more memory within specific software/hardware units.
You just gotta find a balance that works for your requirements and constraints. In my application (it was medical devices), we found that stateful loops fit nicely.
You just gotta find a balance that works for your requirements and constraints. In my application (it was medical devices), we found that stateful loops fit nicely.
I had once thinking about this type of system, and later found that the SNMP(1988) as well as NIST/Army 4D/RCS project(1980s) had this train of thought before I was even born. Now I'm wondering why this type of distributed, synchronized, hard realtime decision making framework don't seem to exist as some Apache Foundation project or something. It just sounds right and massively useful but I can't find an implementation, at least on public Internet -- why?
That’s mostly how kubernetes works also. It’s not that uncommon of a pattern
This is not how Kubernetes works. The concepts are completely different (pod, allocation etc.)
all the main controllers work by running a reconciliation loop constantly, what are you talking about?
It's not really a framework that you implement, more a process for making an implementation?
There are a few layers to your question.
If you mean distributed to mean "over multiple computers", then ya... this is a really specialized field. Your ability to synchronize and maintain hard real-timeness between computers is completely dependent on IO and hardware features, and topology. This makes it much harder to make a generalized framework.
We we ignore the distributed portion, then you're describing a real-time operating system - in which case something like https://www.freertos.org/ might fit the bill?
If you mean distributed to mean "over multiple computers", then ya... this is a really specialized field. Your ability to synchronize and maintain hard real-timeness between computers is completely dependent on IO and hardware features, and topology. This makes it much harder to make a generalized framework.
We we ignore the distributed portion, then you're describing a real-time operating system - in which case something like https://www.freertos.org/ might fit the bill?
I mean realtime inter-node message passing in a tree topology network, with message frequency associated to edges, like shown in [1]. Each nodes might run on its own CPU clocks, but message exchanges occur realtime, progressively faster at each depth, and the system as a whole(what "Autonomous System" probably supposed to mean) runs as a slow but coherent realtime cluster.
Perhaps the idea that message passing has to happen realtime is something obvious or elementary to military/defense/aerospace from technical requirements or experiences fighting fog of war etc., but to me it was dumbfounding new and I guess it might also be for the general public?
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:4D-RCS_reference_model_ar...
Perhaps the idea that message passing has to happen realtime is something obvious or elementary to military/defense/aerospace from technical requirements or experiences fighting fog of war etc., but to me it was dumbfounding new and I guess it might also be for the general public?
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:4D-RCS_reference_model_ar...
See the Beam/OTP as part of Erlang and now Elixir, Gleam, etc.
Erlang came out of Ericcson when they were building giant telephone switches.
Nowadays things like RabbitMQ and WhatsApp run on the Beam VM.
The beam handles both local and remote nodes, mostly transparently.
Then there are things like Nomad or k8s which try to tackle the problem more like *nix(linux/BSD/etc) does, but across multiple nodes. These are not meant for hard real-time systems like launching rockets obviously, not even for soft real-time.
Erlang came out of Ericcson when they were building giant telephone switches.
Nowadays things like RabbitMQ and WhatsApp run on the Beam VM.
The beam handles both local and remote nodes, mostly transparently.
Then there are things like Nomad or k8s which try to tackle the problem more like *nix(linux/BSD/etc) does, but across multiple nodes. These are not meant for hard real-time systems like launching rockets obviously, not even for soft real-time.
Even though you can achieve pretty good latency with Erlang because of the lack of global memory (most if not all allocation is local to an Erlang process).
> including garbage collection.
Not only does flight control software typically never use garbage collection, it is also preferable to never allocate memory during the runtime -- all memory ever needed is allocated at program startup, and memory is not acquired or released until landing or some other major end event. Because memory issues are often the most significant causes of crashes, which you don't want to translate into, well.. a different kind of crash.
The creator of C++, Bjarne, wrote a nice paper on flight control software if you are interested in more.
Not only does flight control software typically never use garbage collection, it is also preferable to never allocate memory during the runtime -- all memory ever needed is allocated at program startup, and memory is not acquired or released until landing or some other major end event. Because memory issues are often the most significant causes of crashes, which you don't want to translate into, well.. a different kind of crash.
The creator of C++, Bjarne, wrote a nice paper on flight control software if you are interested in more.
Do you have a link to bjarnes writeup? My ask Jeeves skills are failing me.
I don't think it was actually written by Bjarne, I think it was K. Carroll and others from Lockheed Martin, but I expect the document is this one:
https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf
which is linked from the Applications page of Bjarne's website.
https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf
which is linked from the Applications page of Bjarne's website.
There are a couple others as well:
https://stroustrup.com/autonomics09.pdf
https://stroustrup.com/sec09.pdf
https://stroustrup.com/mbd09.pdf
https://stroustrup.com/autonomics09.pdf
https://stroustrup.com/sec09.pdf
https://stroustrup.com/mbd09.pdf
Ah, thanks for the link; yes this is the one I was referring to. I had thought it was by Bjarne since it was on his site, but either way, it's an interesting read.
This one might also be interesting https://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~kimchris/cs201/handouts/The%20Powe...
It's basically just a quick list of 10 useful rules to follow for safety-critical code.
(I've seen a different format in the past, that wasn't quite as fancy, but this is the only version I can find at the moment)
It's basically just a quick list of 10 useful rules to follow for safety-critical code.
(I've seen a different format in the past, that wasn't quite as fancy, but this is the only version I can find at the moment)
Interesting. I wonder how compiler-dependent rule 10 is. Like, if I'm writing for a compiler that gives really bad and usually unhelpful warnings that make my code worse... but I suppose these are more very strict guidelines than rules.
That section explicitly addresses that question and says you should rewrite it in a way that avoids the warning, since "usually unhelpful" means "sometimes critical". It's certainly an uncompromising view but that's what you get when failure is disastrous.
They've been known to leak memory ...
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180228-00/?p=98...
>This sparked an interesting memory for me. I was once working with a customer who was producing on-board software for a missile. In my analysis of the code, I pointed out that they had a number of problems with storage leaks. Imagine my surprise when the customers chief software engineer said "Of course it leaks". He went on to point out that they had calculated the amount of memory the application would leak in the total possible flight time for the missile and then doubled that number. They added this much additional memory to the hardware to "support" the leaks. Since the missile will explode when it hits its target or at the end of its flight, the ultimate in garbage collection is performed without programmer intervention.
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20180228-00/?p=98...
>This sparked an interesting memory for me. I was once working with a customer who was producing on-board software for a missile. In my analysis of the code, I pointed out that they had a number of problems with storage leaks. Imagine my surprise when the customers chief software engineer said "Of course it leaks". He went on to point out that they had calculated the amount of memory the application would leak in the total possible flight time for the missile and then doubled that number. They added this much additional memory to the hardware to "support" the leaks. Since the missile will explode when it hits its target or at the end of its flight, the ultimate in garbage collection is performed without programmer intervention.
I think we've solved the GC vs Manual debate. Just add more RAM and explode your computer when it's done running
Very funny. But leak memory until you have to restart the process seems to be a very common strategy in practice. The programs explode even if the computer doesn't.
Many moons ago I remember talking with someone who works in HFT software and they said they'd just load the system with tons of RAM because allocation/deallocation and even manual memory management was too slow.
Really, this is just region-based memory management or actor-based memory management.
It's actually rocket-based memory management. Ba dum tss!
Reminds me of an old discussion in comp.arch.embedded (dating myself here!) about what you say when people at a party ask you what you do.
Hands down best answer was the engineer from a defense company: "I build flying robots that arrive at their destination in a really bad mood."
Hands down best answer was the engineer from a defense company: "I build flying robots that arrive at their destination in a really bad mood."
That is a great story, but I cringed at the part about adding additional hardware to support their leaky code. Surely there had to be a better way?
Don’t overengineer! Malloc has o(n) time in reallocs, so leaking memory can be a viable strategy
Edit: yes I know it’s more complicated than that!
Edit: yes I know it’s more complicated than that!
Allocating/deallocating memory has a cost, if you can afford to just add more memory that's faster than any clever memory management solution you have.
Really nice for integration testing. Not to be confused with unit testing.
You could literally replay entire missions.
You could literally replay entire missions.
SpaceX has been hiring game developers for years now, they even showed up at GDC once to pick up game devs.
Makes sense from a financial standpoint too since game devs are known to be passionate enough to accept lower salaries if they can work on cool stuff. Not necessarily knocking it (not my preference), but it matches exactly what I hear from people that work there. The recruiters even say the pay is low, but you'll have "SpaceX" on your resume so it's worth it.
Also it's world changing work. The best you can do at other faang companies is click ads.
I mean...Amazon has AWS which has to be fascinating to work on (though the impression I get is not a pleasant place to work).
Do we know how much lower?
Industrial applications often use PLCs, Programmable Logic Controllers that also do this.
You could probably use some of the game "Kerbal Space Program" source code. Would be a good start to control the rockets.
KSP would be proprietary code designed for a simulation, not for inside a vehicle.
In all the embedded code I’ve seen there is invariably a “while(true)” somewhere. Is this not the same?
Unlikely, they talk about 50hz and 10hz tasks. Real time OS often allow you to create threads that run at a given rate and must comolete. Like the 50hz task would have 20ms to complete.
Very likely:
while(true) {
...[50hz tick tasks]
if(tick%5==0) {
...[10hz tick tasks]
}
wait_for_next_tick();
tick++;
}Nope, more likely there are internal CPU timers which emits hardware interrupts on which the tasks are performed
No, he is correct. Alot of embedded software uses a more complex form of that exact technique that he is shown in the code.
You technically can have a dedicated timer interrupt for every task but there are usually alot more tasks than HW timers, so instead they use a dedicated HW timer for time-keeping and use that as reference for all other tasks.
You technically can have a dedicated timer interrupt for every task but there are usually alot more tasks than HW timers, so instead they use a dedicated HW timer for time-keeping and use that as reference for all other tasks.
Exactly. IF there is operating system used (it's not always needed), programmers implement separate OS tasks. For simpler systems (like just reading some sensors) real time os is not needed, then such loops are implemented as a template (with much more error checking and restarting). Typically that "wait for tick" function just waits until hardware timer sets overflow flag (not even full interrupt), and this is done to have simple, easy to reason about system.
I guess I should also say at the bottom of those while loops there’s always some wait function attached to a timer
If they are rolling their own os or are using microcontrollers sure, but if they are using a safety critical rtos like vxworks or integrity then it has rate monotonic scheduling built in using os threads.
`wait_for_next_tick();` in any microcontroller-based embedded system will put the CPU to sleep, often lowering your overall power consumption from the mA range it uses while actively running, to the uA range.
Some systems, like those based on coin cells, will completely shut down the chip, leaving only a single timer or input active, and when triggered will turn back on and initialise the entire CPU again to handle the input/timer. Some microcontrollers give you a small allocation of you can preserve under these conditions. That's how you get year+ runtimes on tiny batteries.
Edit: if you want to nerd out on this, I would start with Jack Ganssle's excellent guide: http://www.ganssle.com/reports/ultra-low-power-design.html
Some systems, like those based on coin cells, will completely shut down the chip, leaving only a single timer or input active, and when triggered will turn back on and initialise the entire CPU again to handle the input/timer. Some microcontrollers give you a small allocation of you can preserve under these conditions. That's how you get year+ runtimes on tiny batteries.
Edit: if you want to nerd out on this, I would start with Jack Ganssle's excellent guide: http://www.ganssle.com/reports/ultra-low-power-design.html
On Arduinos, it's actually "for (;;)", which surprised me.
https://github.com/arduino/ArduinoCore-avr/blob/master/cores...
https://github.com/arduino/ArduinoCore-avr/blob/master/cores...
It's standard way to program in industrial automation, flight control and safety critical system.
It's how digital PLC process control loop works. Programmable logic controller (PLC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller
It's how digital PLC process control loop works. Programmable logic controller (PLC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller
That's basically how an arduino works and, IIRC, the Apollo Guidance Computer.
And didn't the Apollo Guidance Computer do some of it in analog?
It had manually encoded ROM in the form of "core rope memory", which is pretty wacky, but it was a digital computer. In fact, it was the first IC computer.
You can learn way too much about it and even operate (a simulation of) one here: http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/
You can learn way too much about it and even operate (a simulation of) one here: http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/
The article's indeed light on details, but what it describes sounds very similar to autonomous driving / driver assistance software I have experience with. That's not really surprising, as the overall system for an autonomous car and a spaceship is very similar - keep processing inputs from sensors, calculate some values and manage state machines, use those results to adjust outputs, some of which may operate actuators, and repeat.
The similarity with game event loops is IMO superficial. A game typically processes events as fast as it can, and the time between any two iterations of the loop is completely unpredictable. One frame could render in 20ms and the next in 25ms, which is completely fine. For a car or spaceship though, there are hard real-time requirements. Like the article describes, some Dragon tasks run every 100ms, others run every 20ms. A lot of effort has definitely gone into making sure the tasks can complete quickly enough, with some margin, and there are definitely systems that monitor these deadlines and treat even one timing miss as a major failure.
The similarity with game event loops is IMO superficial. A game typically processes events as fast as it can, and the time between any two iterations of the loop is completely unpredictable. One frame could render in 20ms and the next in 25ms, which is completely fine. For a car or spaceship though, there are hard real-time requirements. Like the article describes, some Dragon tasks run every 100ms, others run every 20ms. A lot of effort has definitely gone into making sure the tasks can complete quickly enough, with some margin, and there are definitely systems that monitor these deadlines and treat even one timing miss as a major failure.
"One frame could render in 20ms and the next in 25ms, which is completely fine."
No it is not fine, if you want to have a real smooth gameplay. So also in game loops, you can adjust for that, by checking timediff.
But sure, the difference is that, if you miss a frame in a game loop - no real rockets crash, so there is probably (and hopefully) not as much effort put into that, like they do on SpaceX.
No it is not fine, if you want to have a real smooth gameplay. So also in game loops, you can adjust for that, by checking timediff.
But sure, the difference is that, if you miss a frame in a game loop - no real rockets crash, so there is probably (and hopefully) not as much effort put into that, like they do on SpaceX.
Framerates are averaged over much longer periods than two frames. Rendering 45 frames in 20ms each and then having a couple take 25ms just doesn't matter mostly, and addressing that is the kind of extra "nice to have" (and even then not for every kind of game). Yeah it's nice to have consistent frame times but less important than avoiding individual frames getting very slow, and a framerate drop certainly won't be treated by the engine as a critical failure that causes e.g. a crash or restart.
On a hard real-time system like the Dragon, failing the deadline once is a critical error just like a game engine being unable to talk to the GPU.
On a hard real-time system like the Dragon, failing the deadline once is a critical error just like a game engine being unable to talk to the GPU.
This is just the distinction between soft real-time and hard real-time.
> Wow, sounds an awful lot like a typical event loop from a game engine.
I coulda sworn I recall John Carmack making a similar comparison when he was working on Armadillo Aerospace, but implying that rockets were actually a bit simpler.
Apparently I misrecalled...
https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/557223985977765890?...
I coulda sworn I recall John Carmack making a similar comparison when he was working on Armadillo Aerospace, but implying that rockets were actually a bit simpler.
Apparently I misrecalled...
https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/557223985977765890?...
This is also how I'd normally implement control systems in general. Sample the input, calculate, then set output.
This is an extremely common pattern for robotics processing... so I wonder if they just consider the rockets a robot where you're just using a finite state machine based on inputs.
Embedded high-integrity systems have traditioanlly used this kind of cycle.
It's simple to reason about and analyse. You can make assertions about worst case execution time and memory useage and you know for a fact what the order of execution is. The concurrancy on large systems like this often comes in the form of a lot of small computers talking to each other over some network/bus rather than having many systems all running on the same hardware.
Building concurrant systems with predictable real-time characteristics is hard. When you have a bunch of things that really need to happen every Nth of a second in order to fly straight, a simple approach like this is definitely preferrable. In situations like this predictability tends to be more important than raw performance (assuming you can reliably hit minimums).
That doesn't mean people don't use multi-threading in domains like this, but it's one of those things you want to keep as simple as you can and avoid where possible.
It's simple to reason about and analyse. You can make assertions about worst case execution time and memory useage and you know for a fact what the order of execution is. The concurrancy on large systems like this often comes in the form of a lot of small computers talking to each other over some network/bus rather than having many systems all running on the same hardware.
Building concurrant systems with predictable real-time characteristics is hard. When you have a bunch of things that really need to happen every Nth of a second in order to fly straight, a simple approach like this is definitely preferrable. In situations like this predictability tends to be more important than raw performance (assuming you can reliably hit minimums).
That doesn't mean people don't use multi-threading in domains like this, but it's one of those things you want to keep as simple as you can and avoid where possible.
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> Wow, sounds an awful lot like a typical event loop from a game engine.
Or Arduino's loop() method, where all the code just runs in a loop "forever."
Or Arduino's loop() method, where all the code just runs in a loop "forever."
The part that's way harder though is that at least in a game engine, you know the absolute world state and when you make a change to your world state, it happens exactly as you wanted.
In dynamic systems, such as a rocket, robot, etc., reality is fuzzy. Your loop is mostly about "what is my best guess at my present state" and "what is my desired next state". You make changes to try and get from A to B but you may not exactly achieve B. You may have not even been in state A. The error propagates back into your next guess of state, and this repeats forever.
Sensors like GPS give you an absolute position but they're imprecise. Inertial navigation is extremely accurate in telling you the change from a sample to the next, but as your position is the second integral of your acceleration, any error compounds quickly (admittedly the quality of the INS available to people willing to spend 10s of millions of dollars on a vehicle FAR exceeds what you'd be able to put in a car). Some rockets have even used ground based radar measurements uplinked to them to further improve position estimates. They probably still do this, I just don't have any hard data on current launchers.
In dynamic systems, such as a rocket, robot, etc., reality is fuzzy. Your loop is mostly about "what is my best guess at my present state" and "what is my desired next state". You make changes to try and get from A to B but you may not exactly achieve B. You may have not even been in state A. The error propagates back into your next guess of state, and this repeats forever.
Sensors like GPS give you an absolute position but they're imprecise. Inertial navigation is extremely accurate in telling you the change from a sample to the next, but as your position is the second integral of your acceleration, any error compounds quickly (admittedly the quality of the INS available to people willing to spend 10s of millions of dollars on a vehicle FAR exceeds what you'd be able to put in a car). Some rockets have even used ground based radar measurements uplinked to them to further improve position estimates. They probably still do this, I just don't have any hard data on current launchers.
I work in avionics and the principles are exactly the same. And I think it applies to all somewhat critical embedded systems.
There are some details that may change, for example, we use mostly C, specialized software and a bit of ADA, no C++ in embedded systems. But the input-output periodic loops, isolation and making sure things continue working in degraded condition principles are the same.
Nothing special about SpaceX here, for good reasons. In fact, some of it might be mandatory if you want to fly something that can cause serious damage if you it fails, be it a rocket or a plane.
There are some details that may change, for example, we use mostly C, specialized software and a bit of ADA, no C++ in embedded systems. But the input-output periodic loops, isolation and making sure things continue working in degraded condition principles are the same.
Nothing special about SpaceX here, for good reasons. In fact, some of it might be mandatory if you want to fly something that can cause serious damage if you it fails, be it a rocket or a plane.
From article “We invented simple domain specific languages to express those things, such that other engineers in the company who are not software engineers can maybe configure it.”
It sounds like they created their own internal API configuration scripts to be highly dynamic and configurable. Similar to many gaming or operating systems config files. Sounds be a highly productive way to test and deploy software changes. Not only for people who are not C++ proficient but also to allow Engineers and Scientist to focus on their own design work and not have to worry about software development.
It sounds like they created their own internal API configuration scripts to be highly dynamic and configurable. Similar to many gaming or operating systems config files. Sounds be a highly productive way to test and deploy software changes. Not only for people who are not C++ proficient but also to allow Engineers and Scientist to focus on their own design work and not have to worry about software development.
On the topic of rocket flight computers, here's a link to an FC I built last year for my model rocket. It does thrust vectoring and some rudimentary navigation. The control loops on this thing run at 200hz though. It's got a state machine for knowing what to do at each stage of flight as well.
https://github.com/polishdude20/CygnusX1
https://github.com/polishdude20/CygnusX1
If you analyze the physics, you find that the way the inertia works out is that smaller things need shorter control cycles. The relevant timescales for large objects ends up being longer.
Yeah that makes sense! A lot more can go wrong on smaller things in a short amount of time
Note that part 2 is also out now: https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/05/11/building-a-space-based...
Curious if the software on Dragon conforms to aviation safety critical safety assurance standards: i.e. DO178C, ARP4754
Flight software for rockets at SpaceX is structured around the concept of a control cycle. “You read all of your inputs: sensors that we read in through an ADC, packets from the network, data from an IMU, updates from a star tracker or guidance sensor, commands from the ground,” explains Gerding. “You do some processing of those to determine your state, like where you are in the world or the status of the life support system. That determines your outputs – you write those, wait until the next tick of the clock, and then do the whole thing over again.”
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_measurement_unit
FWIW, the NASA Technical Reports Server is a good resource for technical docs from Apollo to Shuttle. Many of them have enough detail to implement the algorithms.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search?q=shuttle%20guidance
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search?q=shuttle%20guidance
The 50 Hertz rate surprises me, a lot can happen within 20ms, a lot of distance traveled at high speeds
The question is not the distance travelled but how quickly you need to react. If you're gimballing a rocket engine, this is not going to be a device that can do much movement within 20ms.
> This marks the beginning of a new era for SpaceX, one where it will aim to routinely fly astronauts to the ISS
Does anyone have much insight into the longevity of the ISS from now? I can see it's approved for operation until 2024, so just 3 years, but could potentially continue to operate after that.
If the ISS does get decommissioned, how many years does that process take, and once it's gone, what purpose does Crew Dragon serve?
Not trying to be negative, hopefully by 2028 or even 2024 we will have concrete operations underway for continued space station development that could use Crew Dragon, but it does seem bold calling it a new era, when it's so precariously reliant on the ISS existing.
Does anyone have much insight into the longevity of the ISS from now? I can see it's approved for operation until 2024, so just 3 years, but could potentially continue to operate after that.
If the ISS does get decommissioned, how many years does that process take, and once it's gone, what purpose does Crew Dragon serve?
Not trying to be negative, hopefully by 2028 or even 2024 we will have concrete operations underway for continued space station development that could use Crew Dragon, but it does seem bold calling it a new era, when it's so precariously reliant on the ISS existing.
I can answer some of that, 2024 is the current limit. But 2028 is being considered and I think its politically likely.
It could probably be extend even further but it would require incensing maintenance and expensive re-qualification.
NASA already has a plan however. They have a contract with Axiom Space to extend the ISS with new modules. After they have about 4 new modules they should eventually decouple after ISS and be a free floating station.
NASA already has a program in planning for a commercial space station. The same way they did Commercial Crew and the moon lander. They have already asked companies to come up with plans for a station. SierraNevada really wants that contract and SpaceX will probably bid something, probably others. These would be free floating privately run stations
So NASA basically hopes that sometime between 2024 and 2028 there will be two new stations and then its politically easier to drop ISS.
Crew Dragon can still do free flying missions (as they will do later this year) but SpaceX hopes to replace it with Starship.
It could probably be extend even further but it would require incensing maintenance and expensive re-qualification.
NASA already has a plan however. They have a contract with Axiom Space to extend the ISS with new modules. After they have about 4 new modules they should eventually decouple after ISS and be a free floating station.
NASA already has a program in planning for a commercial space station. The same way they did Commercial Crew and the moon lander. They have already asked companies to come up with plans for a station. SierraNevada really wants that contract and SpaceX will probably bid something, probably others. These would be free floating privately run stations
So NASA basically hopes that sometime between 2024 and 2028 there will be two new stations and then its politically easier to drop ISS.
Crew Dragon can still do free flying missions (as they will do later this year) but SpaceX hopes to replace it with Starship.
I think the ISS will be dragged along until there's a plan for a new station which may include replacing the more ancient components instead of an entirely new station. I have a hard time seeing NASA and the US government giving up on having a continuously operated space station in LEO. What that likely means given the overall gridlock and every administration messing with the plans at NASA is that the ISS limps along until the modules themselves need to be replaced.
If you've watched SNL, you already know that they use Tmux too.
Is it possible for a programmer with the relevant experience to apply for a role at spacex? Maybe as a consultant/contractor on non sensitive software ?
should be able to, but you do have to be a us citizen / resident I believe
If your mention of "non sensitive software" means you're looking for a position that isn't covered by ITAR, that's not possible. Even the people working in the SpaceX cafeteria are covered by ITAR.
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are the 50hz chips manufactured at 50hz ? or are they downclocked to 50hz.
why cant you use higher clocked speeds ? like even 500 mhz, etc ? is there something special about 10 and 50hz ?
why cant you use higher clocked speeds ? like even 500 mhz, etc ? is there something special about 10 and 50hz ?
If I understood it correctly, they’re not talking about a chip literally running at 50Mhz. They’re talking about polling a sensor in a loop running on a 50Mhz timer. The processor doing that is certainly running at a much higher clock frequency
Yeah they're talking about the control loop itself which means 50 times a second the computer/program looks at it's inputs (sensors) and changes it's outputs (commands to actuators). The actual computers processing that program run much faster.
That's the number of times per second the main update code runs and it has nothing to do with the number of clock cycles or instructions per second the CPU can run (other than the fact that the chip needs to be fast enough to have the update code finish before the next time it needs to start).
Exactly this. A chip running at 50hz would never be able to run a task 50 times per second when it's only executing 50 instructions per second.
ah thanks! that makes it so much clearer.
Chips have internal timers which can be configured programmatically so they emit hardware interrupt in specified time intervals. When the interrupt is emitted, CPU jumps to the method which executes the certain program. After that it goes idle, waiting for the next cycle.
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> Flight software for rockets at SpaceX is structured around the concept of a control cycle. “You read all of your inputs: sensors that we read in through an ADC, packets from the network, data from an IMU, updates from a star tracker or guidance sensor, commands from the ground,” explains Gerding. “You do some processing of those to determine your state, like where you are in the world or the status of the life support system. That determines your outputs – you write those, wait until the next tick of the clock, and then do the whole thing over again.”
Wow, sounds an awful lot like a typical event loop from a game engine.
Of course the main difference from a game engine would be the reliability requirements. The level of verification effort that goes into flight control software can't be comparable with the effort that goes into a game engine (assuming it's greater than zero :))