Leaked Walmart memo reveals competitive threats(vox.com)
vox.com
Leaked Walmart memo reveals competitive threats
https://www.vox.com/recode/22423706/walmart-memo-retail-amazon-target-instacart
373 comments
Walmart has some weird cultural issues that make store operations hard to adapt. It’s a pretty miserable place to work. They hire anyone, turn them out quickly, and have weird work rules for things like gathering in a group.
Target’s pickup operation is superior in every dimension. They made the decision to put it front and center, and their employees seem happier. It takes <3 minutes to have a Target person drop stuff in your car, Walmart requires scheduling and is usually late.
The other issue they have is that their logistical operation is best in class for retail, but not so good for shipping.
Target’s pickup operation is superior in every dimension. They made the decision to put it front and center, and their employees seem happier. It takes <3 minutes to have a Target person drop stuff in your car, Walmart requires scheduling and is usually late.
The other issue they have is that their logistical operation is best in class for retail, but not so good for shipping.
This is really the problem with everything Walmart has done wrt eCommerce/online pickup IMO - It's like all the pieces are there, but they can't bring them all together.
I've hit their website from Google looking for an item, and the lead time to ship is 2+ weeks and it's highlighted that it's sourced from a partner.
Putting aside the obvious - it's just a worse deal. For most items, they're competing with 1-2 days, a product page packed with verified reviews to help decision making, a company with top notch customer support/return policies and the price is usually the same or cheaper, there's other issues at play too.
It's subtle psychological cues. First, the way they highlight that it's from their partner almost makes it seem like they're doing dropshipping, they don't actually know if it's in stock and I can order and they will put a hold on my credit card. Maybe I'll get it in 2 weeks. Maybe a month. Maybe the order will eventually be cancelled or I will go through a nightmare dealing with their support or having to do a chargeback.
I'm not going through all of that stuff in my head, it's just my mind in the background doing pattern matching with other bad experiences I've had shopping online.
I understand it takes time and truckloads of money to get something even close to what Amazon has, but it also requires good leadership at the executive level.
The one area that Walmart could absolutely crush Amazon in would be picking up your order online, same day. Walmart should be able to leverage all their experience with brick and mortar to do this.
Instead, they're flagging behind Target. Their solution is pretty middle of the road, all the big retailers have something similar.
Amazon bought Whole Foods, so they have a footprint, just like Walmart has an online store. Based on how these companies have executed which do you think happens first? Amazon nails in person pickup or Walmart nails online shopping.
I've hit their website from Google looking for an item, and the lead time to ship is 2+ weeks and it's highlighted that it's sourced from a partner.
Putting aside the obvious - it's just a worse deal. For most items, they're competing with 1-2 days, a product page packed with verified reviews to help decision making, a company with top notch customer support/return policies and the price is usually the same or cheaper, there's other issues at play too.
It's subtle psychological cues. First, the way they highlight that it's from their partner almost makes it seem like they're doing dropshipping, they don't actually know if it's in stock and I can order and they will put a hold on my credit card. Maybe I'll get it in 2 weeks. Maybe a month. Maybe the order will eventually be cancelled or I will go through a nightmare dealing with their support or having to do a chargeback.
I'm not going through all of that stuff in my head, it's just my mind in the background doing pattern matching with other bad experiences I've had shopping online.
I understand it takes time and truckloads of money to get something even close to what Amazon has, but it also requires good leadership at the executive level.
The one area that Walmart could absolutely crush Amazon in would be picking up your order online, same day. Walmart should be able to leverage all their experience with brick and mortar to do this.
Instead, they're flagging behind Target. Their solution is pretty middle of the road, all the big retailers have something similar.
Amazon bought Whole Foods, so they have a footprint, just like Walmart has an online store. Based on how these companies have executed which do you think happens first? Amazon nails in person pickup or Walmart nails online shopping.
'Amazon nails in person pickup or Walmart nails online shopping.'
Amazon has nailed free shipping with prime. In person pickup costs money in time, fuel, available vehicle. Feels like checkmate in 2021 but this may change
Amazon has nailed free shipping with prime. In person pickup costs money in time, fuel, available vehicle. Feels like checkmate in 2021 but this may change
I dislike Walmart rather intensely but I know if I order a new Kitchen Aid mixer from them I’m going to get a new Kitchen Aid mixer. Ask me how I know the same isn’t true of Amazon. No matter how good your delivery logistics, it’s not “nailing it” if I get the wrong thing fast.
I’ve commented on this before—you kind of don’t. It will be a true KitchenAid brand, of course. But the actual machine may be compromised. Walmart places intense pressure on their suppliers and often sells Walmart-only SKUs made of inferior parts and materials.
I bought rope there (in a physical store) a few months ago, for tying down furniture in a truck. Got home, cut the rope, it was a foam core with braiding around it to make it seem like true rope.
This applies to their food items as well, by the way.
I bought rope there (in a physical store) a few months ago, for tying down furniture in a truck. Got home, cut the rope, it was a foam core with braiding around it to make it seem like true rope.
This applies to their food items as well, by the way.
Maybe you just bought floating rope? There are a bunch of floating rope products that advertise foam cores.
Nope. I know what floating rope is and that was nowhere on the packaging. It was also the only rope for sale in the store, alongside (very cheap) carabiners etc. and not in a boating or pool section.
A thousand nods of agreement. I tell everyone that will listen to stop buying from Amazon and feeding the beast. They know that they have a counterfeit problem and they refuse to face it. I suspect that someone has done the math and figured out that most people won't figure it out or complain so it's more profitable to just let the common binning continue.
That’s the thing with Walmart, they aren’t shady enough to play the same game. Once you break out of the Amazon bubble of faith based “Amazon is amazing!”, it’s just retail.
Once you get out of the Amazon funnel, why go to Walmart? There’s a hundred retailers that sell genuine KitchenAid mixers. Pick the one with the best price, or color scheme you prefer.
Once you get out of the Amazon funnel, why go to Walmart? There’s a hundred retailers that sell genuine KitchenAid mixers. Pick the one with the best price, or color scheme you prefer.
I think combined shipping can be a huge attraction factor for an Amazon or Walmart.
If you want to buy a $150 mixer, but also, say, a $10 book and a $5 cable, you'll be able to put those all in one cart at those vendors and get free postage.
If you go to some specialty mixer retailer, you'll have to buy the other items as a seperate transaction and pay for shipping on them.
I know in my household, we definitely will ask around "I'm buying something from Amazon, so I'll already be spending $25, does anyone want anything else on that order?"
If you want to buy a $150 mixer, but also, say, a $10 book and a $5 cable, you'll be able to put those all in one cart at those vendors and get free postage.
If you go to some specialty mixer retailer, you'll have to buy the other items as a seperate transaction and pay for shipping on them.
I know in my household, we definitely will ask around "I'm buying something from Amazon, so I'll already be spending $25, does anyone want anything else on that order?"
Do you really though? They do the same third-party seller thing as Amazon.
I usually filter by "Retailer: Walmart.com" for any common and/or name-brand item (and price/shipping is usually better than 3rd part sellers anyway). You still have to take your chances for more obscure items, but at least for me that's rare.
It's not third party sellers, it's comingling inventory from third party sellers. That breaks the reviews / reputation as a way to check, and it means if there's even one bad egg, even if I buy from Amazon itself, I can still get the wrong product.
It seems to me Amazon's comingling is bad for competition. Players on their platform, not between Amazon and others.
Have any of the regulators taken note?
I've been reading Congress' anti-trust research and reports. Haven't seen this called out yet.
Have any of the regulators taken note?
I've been reading Congress' anti-trust research and reports. Haven't seen this called out yet.
Legal thinking shifted towards a price focused for all things antitrust. You can be a monopolist, as long as you don’t quickly raise prices. That’s why 3 companies control 90% of meat packing.
Companies like Amazon are carefully engineered to avoid that type of enforcement action. Nothing will happen until you have a major political shift - I’d guess somewhere around 2035-2045 when demographics shift the political dynamic in the US.
Companies like Amazon are carefully engineered to avoid that type of enforcement action. Nothing will happen until you have a major political shift - I’d guess somewhere around 2035-2045 when demographics shift the political dynamic in the US.
Selling fake products masquerading as a real ones. That’s literally the worst case scenario for a customer.
If I buy a product and it has issues—okay, it happens. Maybe I post a bad review or just don’t buy it again.
If I buy a product and it’s something else, the seller should be ashamed of themselves.
I have bought (and returned) countless fraudulent books from Amazon to the point where I had to weigh the books, count the pages, and compare with publishers.
And then I closed my prime membership and I’ll take the longer wait times for a real product.
If I buy a product and it has issues—okay, it happens. Maybe I post a bad review or just don’t buy it again.
If I buy a product and it’s something else, the seller should be ashamed of themselves.
I have bought (and returned) countless fraudulent books from Amazon to the point where I had to weigh the books, count the pages, and compare with publishers.
And then I closed my prime membership and I’ll take the longer wait times for a real product.
> Amazon has nailed free shipping with prime.
Not everywhere. I didn't renew my prime subscription a few years ago, because they rarely met their delivery times and I was starting to get broken, counterfeit, and obviously returned/resold items.
Not everywhere. I didn't renew my prime subscription a few years ago, because they rarely met their delivery times and I was starting to get broken, counterfeit, and obviously returned/resold items.
Never paid Amazon a dime for Prime, like ever. I’m sure I’m missing something but in general shy away from any and all subscriptions.
I consistently and daily choose no, fuck off and give me the free shipping I’ll wait. If I don’t have enough in my cart for free shipping I wait and add more to my cart later
I consistently and daily choose no, fuck off and give me the free shipping I’ll wait. If I don’t have enough in my cart for free shipping I wait and add more to my cart later
I'm with you on anything charged monthly, even though I feel Amazon Prime Videos outshines Netflix in terms of good older movies.
That said, I know too many people who renew Prime like it was a church tithing. (Yes--I know about their yearly deal.)
It's not movies these people like either. These people love the formulated crap Netflix vomits.
Your post resonated with me because I try hard to avoid any monthly fees for any product. Plus--unless you order a lot, people are just giving Amazon free money.
You just reminded me to cancel Apple storage.
That said, I know too many people who renew Prime like it was a church tithing. (Yes--I know about their yearly deal.)
It's not movies these people like either. These people love the formulated crap Netflix vomits.
Your post resonated with me because I try hard to avoid any monthly fees for any product. Plus--unless you order a lot, people are just giving Amazon free money.
You just reminded me to cancel Apple storage.
A click and collect / in person delivery has benefits too though:
* It’s cheaper for Walmart as it can ride on the back of an existing trunk from a logistics perspective.
* Dependent on how confident you are on stock, Walmart could offer “instant” click and collect on any range in stock in store. This does depend on inventory policies and is more complicated than it initially seems though.
* It gets someone in your store which has an umbrella effect as they are likely to purchase something else.
Most are benefits for Walmart, but the lower delivery cost can be passed on to customers and instant pickup is great for customers when it happens. Furthermore, click and collect is great for people in flats or where leaving a parcel isn’t practical.
* It’s cheaper for Walmart as it can ride on the back of an existing trunk from a logistics perspective.
* Dependent on how confident you are on stock, Walmart could offer “instant” click and collect on any range in stock in store. This does depend on inventory policies and is more complicated than it initially seems though.
* It gets someone in your store which has an umbrella effect as they are likely to purchase something else.
Most are benefits for Walmart, but the lower delivery cost can be passed on to customers and instant pickup is great for customers when it happens. Furthermore, click and collect is great for people in flats or where leaving a parcel isn’t practical.
To be clear, I think it's way more important for Walmart to nail online shopping than vice versa, but clearly Amazon feels having a physical presence is important.
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2 weeks is exactly how long it took to get an item, and they lost 2 other orders and had appalling customer service. I had to resort to a chargeback in order to get my money back. They couldn't find or bother to find the order in their system.
I've given up on Walmart online ordering after a couple experiences where my order was fulfilled by a dropshipper who bought the wrong item and had it shipped to me as a gift through Amazon. Massive confusion all around, and it ended with cancelling and getting a refund from Walmart.
You’re just describing how Target and Walmart have different business models, same as CostCo does. There’s a continuum there. Walmart has lower profit margins, lower prices, stocks many more items, has many more options for size rather than all bulk and will hire far lower quality workers. CostCo is at the other end on all of those and Target is intermediate. People really, really care about price.
I’m fairly certain Costco has lower prices and profit margins than Target. So it’s not “on the other end on all of those” with Target being intermediate.
A few years ago, I would agree with you on profit margins at Costco.
I do not see deals anymore. Sure they like to bundle (especially in threes), but the product is usually the stuff that isn't selling elsewhere, and the price isn't much if the consumer divides by 3.
I used to buy there all the time because of the no question asked return policy. That has changed. They question a lot more than electronics returns too.
Oh yea, most high end watches you see in the case are Grey Market bought, and have no manufacturer's warranty.
What's keeping Costco happy is the membership fees. That is pure profit.
I do not see deals anymore. Sure they like to bundle (especially in threes), but the product is usually the stuff that isn't selling elsewhere, and the price isn't much if the consumer divides by 3.
I used to buy there all the time because of the no question asked return policy. That has changed. They question a lot more than electronics returns too.
Oh yea, most high end watches you see in the case are Grey Market bought, and have no manufacturer's warranty.
What's keeping Costco happy is the membership fees. That is pure profit.
the spectrum seems accurate for the employee pay I think.
Costco also sells in much larger sizes, so while the price may be lower on a per unit basis, you often pay more overall. It’s a trade not everyone wants, e.g. lack of space to store bulk goods in a small apartment. Costco, Target, Amazon, et al compete on some sort of n-dimensional plane with price, size, shopping experience, brand, etc all play a part. It’s not a line.
Costco's high barrier is the membership cost where they derive a substantial amount of their profit.
Walmart uses their market size to force suppliers to produce special packaging for Walmart that is a slightly different sized box for many food items, where that product is a bit lighter than the same sized box at another retailer. The catch is Walmart advertises their price, which looks lower in print, but if one purchases that product at Walmart and also at another grocer you will find the Walmart version is slightly more expensive by weight, holds less than the other same sized box but labeled with the correct weight. Only a careful consumer will notice that Walmart costs more, if calculated by weight.
I'd just like them to observe Walton's imposed limit of no more than two customers in line. I'm getting really fed up with retailers that won't staff their registers. And no, self checkout is a slap in the face where you exit the store as a presumed criminal after providing free labor. It's like they want me to buy from Amazon.
Self-checkout? Best invention of the 2000's
Sorta. Took them a while to turn it off criminal mode. Wasn’t long ago you had to bag an item before you could scan the next. But I have more than 1 hand. Sometimes multiple people.
French ones still run in criminal mode.
French ones still run in criminal mode.
They’re in criminal mode in the US depending on the store location. 2 Safeway’s about a 10 minute drive from each other have opposite policies, also the more poor the area the less likely to have self checkout at all
The checkout situation alone has made it so I haven’t gone to my local Safeway in almost two years except to use the DMV registration machine. The self checkout is almost unusable, and ever since the private equity buyout years ago I’ve never seen more than two normal registers open at once.
Private equity is synonymous with “customers and employees will suffer” in my mind.
I get really miffed at how our system of economics seems set up to destroy rather than promote the common good.
I get really miffed at how our system of economics seems set up to destroy rather than promote the common good.
I’ve walked out of more than one Safeway because the self checkout refused to let me proceed and nobody was helping. Those machines are so shitty, they’ve gotten better but I still try not to use them.
Oh the anxiety of having kids and those.
Every single bump set it off and required someone to come over.
More then a few carts got left half unloaded.
More then a few carts got left half unloaded.
I’ve had a large person on the other side leaning on it and set it off…
What is criminal mode?
I think they mean when the machine is set to a strict weight measurement tolerance (or similar) so that for nearly every item it complains about putting things into or taking them out of the bag. You often have to call the checkout area minder over to fix it. It makes the process take much longer than it should.
The machines weigh stuff? I don't understand that. Here in Switzerland you just scan the barcode of every item and place it in a bag, done. What is there to weigh?
Also recently I started using what I guess is the Swiss (Coop) equivalent of Scan and Go: I scan with my phone in the aisles, but stuff in my bag directly in the aisles as well, and when I leave the list of items I've taken is transmitted to a classic self checkout machine and I just have to pay. I wish I could avoid the machine entirely and pay from my phone, I assume it will exist one day.
Also recently I started using what I guess is the Swiss (Coop) equivalent of Scan and Go: I scan with my phone in the aisles, but stuff in my bag directly in the aisles as well, and when I leave the list of items I've taken is transmitted to a classic self checkout machine and I just have to pay. I wish I could avoid the machine entirely and pay from my phone, I assume it will exist one day.
The big bagging area will be one big scale. It's not that big of a deal when programmed correctly. You can place your own bags on it too (but there's usually a button you have to press so it tares it correctly).
The scanning area will have it owns weight sensor for unweighed fruits and vegetables. This scale is usually calibrated/verified by a government body because it relates to pricing. In Europe, it's common to bag and weigh your produce in the produce section, but in N. America, it's integrated with the checkout process.
I live near a Walmart "flagship" store and they are/were testing out a system where you scan items are you pick them and then can bag them in your cart, with a special aisle for exit. I suspect the cart also goes over a scale and they determine if it matches correctly.
The scanning area will have it owns weight sensor for unweighed fruits and vegetables. This scale is usually calibrated/verified by a government body because it relates to pricing. In Europe, it's common to bag and weigh your produce in the produce section, but in N. America, it's integrated with the checkout process.
I live near a Walmart "flagship" store and they are/were testing out a system where you scan items are you pick them and then can bag them in your cart, with a special aisle for exit. I suspect the cart also goes over a scale and they determine if it matches correctly.
I guess the Walmarts near me are different. I just scan stuff and I can either bag it on the platform or put it straight into my cart. The portable barcode scanner means I don't need to take the 50lb bag of dog food out of the cart either. There's no special aisle to exit, you just leave the regular way.
The special aisle is for this system where you scan items as you take them off the shelf.
Checkout-as-you-go instead of filling your cart and checking out at the end.
Checkout-as-you-go instead of filling your cart and checking out at the end.
Now that would be cool. I can't wait until they have it around here.
That and when you can’t pick up multiple packages of something, scan them and then bag them all at once. You have to complete each individual process before starting the next.
Painful for small items or when you have a helper.
Painful for small items or when you have a helper.
It’s great when you want to buy a few things. It’s terrible if you have a cart full of things.
This is how I view it. There's a Publix just down the street from my work, and I always use self-checkout there, but when we're shopping for home (full cart), we don't even consider it an option. I don't think Publix checks your cart or anything, so it's not about that. Last time we went shopping, there wasn't a bagger, and we didn't mind, so that's not it either. I think it's just that it's a lot quicker for them to scan your items, and you don't have to pay extra attention to make sure you've scanned everything.
Related, Publix is one of the South's top selling points. It's easily the best grocery store I've used. Up until I moved to Florida and experienced Publix, all grocery stores felt more or less the same.
Related, Publix is one of the South's top selling points. It's easily the best grocery store I've used. Up until I moved to Florida and experienced Publix, all grocery stores felt more or less the same.
it depends for me it is almost universally better unless something has a security device on it. on the other hand i worked as a cashier and latter lead cashier (i trained all the new cashiers on how to use the register) for years while in collage. So I can get through my cart much faster than most whoever is working the check out just because i know whats coming and what should be bagged together optimally. and then also the lack of forced social interaction makes me far happier.
Free labor - not with the portable scanner type of self-checkout. You put stuff directly in your bag instead of the cart, so no extra effort is necessary. Although tbh, even the scale-type machines are quicker to use than waiting in line. They do perform randomized checks, but very rarely and only 3 items ie 1-2 minutes total delay.
Plus with contactless payment my shopping is an essentially frictionless walk through the store building.
Plus with contactless payment my shopping is an essentially frictionless walk through the store building.
Safeway has this problem.
Safeway has managed to piss off every singe one of their employees.
My local Safeway couldn't find help for years.
Since the epidemic, that is changing. They are hiring people who don't care much about conditions, or pay, and I know I'm suspose to say that's great.
Those people will get tired of being treated terribly in the future though.
I bet Safeway is lobbying the state right now to allow booze sales through self-checkout. The only people I see in line waiting five deep is liquor sales.
Safeway has managed to piss off every singe one of their employees.
My local Safeway couldn't find help for years.
Since the epidemic, that is changing. They are hiring people who don't care much about conditions, or pay, and I know I'm suspose to say that's great.
Those people will get tired of being treated terribly in the future though.
I bet Safeway is lobbying the state right now to allow booze sales through self-checkout. The only people I see in line waiting five deep is liquor sales.
The store I regularly go to has eighteen or twenty registers, and I've never seen more than three staffed. This issue has persisted for years.
Biggest reason I don't go grocery shopping at Walmart. Doing a full cart through a tiny self-checkout area is a PITA.
Biggest reason I don't go grocery shopping at Walmart. Doing a full cart through a tiny self-checkout area is a PITA.
I look forward to a car-wash pickup. You arrive. They scan your plate. You go through the 5 minute car wash and at the end they fill your trunk.
The rules against gathering. in a group are not just weird. It’s a blatant anti-union mechanism.
As a customer visiting any store (not just Walmart), it is rather frustrating to need assistance from an employee but unable to find one until you find a gaggle of them all "hanging out". I have no idea what they are doing. They could be talking about unions, they could be talking about the weather, or they could all have just completed assiting the movement of a heavy item require 4 "teammates". Either way, it is not a good look for the customer.
I don’t know why any of those three possibilities qualifies as a “bad look”. They’re working humans with needs, just like anyone else. It’d be like saying it’s a bad look whenever a few programmers are at a computer. What could they be doing?
Why would you even try to compare coders to customer service oriented jobs? No computer coding company has ever had a slogan similar to "We're here to help". Every big box retailer promotes their employees being there to assist their customers. That's why the all wear the same color blue shirts, orange aprons, etc so that they are easily identifiable to customers looking for assistance. That's their job, at least part of the job.
Having worked retail stores, you really underestimate how little time you have as any individual to get your shit done and also help customers. That gaggle may be them deciding how to make the store look right with only 4 people when normally it’d take 8.
If you want good customer service go somewhere they dont cut corners on staffing while paying the heroes that have to do 3 people’s jobs minimum wage.
If you want good customer service go somewhere they dont cut corners on staffing while paying the heroes that have to do 3 people’s jobs minimum wage.
>That gaggle may be them deciding
Then take that gaggle to the back in a meeting room so that it's not visible to the customers.
>If you want good customer service go somewhere they dont cut corners
Where does this exist? I'm free this weekend. I'll see about taking a visit to this magical fairy land you speak. /s Seriously though, what public facing retail store doesn't cut corners on staffing or any other aspect? I need to expand my list of stores not on the "disgusted with" list
Then take that gaggle to the back in a meeting room so that it's not visible to the customers.
>If you want good customer service go somewhere they dont cut corners
Where does this exist? I'm free this weekend. I'll see about taking a visit to this magical fairy land you speak. /s Seriously though, what public facing retail store doesn't cut corners on staffing or any other aspect? I need to expand my list of stores not on the "disgusted with" list
> Then take that gaggle to the back in a meeting room so that it's not visible to the customers.
Maybe they don’t care about offending you? Just a thought.
Maybe they don’t care about offending you? Just a thought.
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> Seriously though, what public facing retail store doesn't cut corners on staffing or any other aspect?
Food co-ops and independent/small chain grocers. We are fortunate to have a good density of these in the Seattle area and PNW in general.
http://northwestgrocers.com/?page_id=12
Food co-ops and independent/small chain grocers. We are fortunate to have a good density of these in the Seattle area and PNW in general.
http://northwestgrocers.com/?page_id=12
A few years ago Walmart came out with this bizarre simulation game(?) where you “work” in their store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/spark-city/id1435371389
> It takes <3 minutes to have a Target person drop stuff in your car
In my experience, it's rarely as low as 3 minutes. It's often quicker for me to go in and get in line at the customer service.
In my experience, it's rarely as low as 3 minutes. It's often quicker for me to go in and get in line at the customer service.
> Walmart has some weird cultural issues that make store operations hard to adapt. It’s a pretty miserable place to work. They hire anyone, turn them out quickly, and have weird work rules for things like gathering in a group.
Is any company in retail any different? Except for the "hire anyone", most people would probably say that describes Amazon.
Is any company in retail any different? Except for the "hire anyone", most people would probably say that describes Amazon.
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The other problem is substitution. WalMart will sub something different as if it's the same. They also assume you picked up if you go anywhere near the store.
>> Walmart gets a lot of flak
In a way, it reminds me of "MSFT is Dead" stuff from circa 2008. Google had taken email by storm, was moving on office and seemed to be making web into their own OS. Windows Vista & IE sucked. Google just seemed so much nimbler. Apple had risen from the dead, and was reinventing consumer electronics. MSFT was looking decrepit, the next IBM.
MSFT never panicked. Software was a great business to be in, and the pressure was never financial. Meanwhile, they maintained their own ways and their own cultural advantages, long term perseverance, reverse compatibility, etc.
They didn't win every race. Google won mobile OS, the "browser war. MSFT's attempts at a search business didn't succeed. They did win enough though, plenty. Google was better at web based software earlier, but MSFT held on to Office/Productivity. Office 365 wasn't as slick as early, but it was/is the product businesses will pay for. Most notably, they beat Google on cloud. Cloud was in Google's wheelhouse, and emphatically not in MSFT's. They started late. Google's "paradigm" mentality was great for the early part of the game. Getting where we are today though, that required carrying old paradigms into the new world. It required lots of mess, details, requirements that don't really make sense... That is MSFT's wheelhouse. Meeting companies where they are. Its a foreign concept to Google.
Today, Google is the one that seems weaker. They're plenty rich, and plenty capable technologically. They aren't very good at building businesses though. It's still all about adwords.
MSFT could have gone the way of IBM.
In a way, it reminds me of "MSFT is Dead" stuff from circa 2008. Google had taken email by storm, was moving on office and seemed to be making web into their own OS. Windows Vista & IE sucked. Google just seemed so much nimbler. Apple had risen from the dead, and was reinventing consumer electronics. MSFT was looking decrepit, the next IBM.
MSFT never panicked. Software was a great business to be in, and the pressure was never financial. Meanwhile, they maintained their own ways and their own cultural advantages, long term perseverance, reverse compatibility, etc.
They didn't win every race. Google won mobile OS, the "browser war. MSFT's attempts at a search business didn't succeed. They did win enough though, plenty. Google was better at web based software earlier, but MSFT held on to Office/Productivity. Office 365 wasn't as slick as early, but it was/is the product businesses will pay for. Most notably, they beat Google on cloud. Cloud was in Google's wheelhouse, and emphatically not in MSFT's. They started late. Google's "paradigm" mentality was great for the early part of the game. Getting where we are today though, that required carrying old paradigms into the new world. It required lots of mess, details, requirements that don't really make sense... That is MSFT's wheelhouse. Meeting companies where they are. Its a foreign concept to Google.
Today, Google is the one that seems weaker. They're plenty rich, and plenty capable technologically. They aren't very good at building businesses though. It's still all about adwords.
MSFT could have gone the way of IBM.
To be fair a lot of this is because Google can't execute properly.
Office 365 just destroys Google Docs, everything MSFT offer just integrated well, is priced well.
Chrome OS + Android + Docs could have been the productivity Windows PC killer if they'd executed it with vision.
Office 365 just destroys Google Docs, everything MSFT offer just integrated well, is priced well.
Chrome OS + Android + Docs could have been the productivity Windows PC killer if they'd executed it with vision.
Sure, but this covers a lot of territory.
Executing well on a new paradigm for a 30 year old suite, maintaining compatibility, etc. These are really hard, and MSFT's speciality. Office became office originally for maintaining meticulous compatibility with its predecessor, Lotus.
It's incredibly tedious, frustrating work. Takes a ton of perseverance. Google docs came out of the gate to oohs and ahs. It was slick. Cool, innovative features like real-time collaboration worked well. MSFT's start was much clunkier, and expectations were already high. It took years before it wasn't an embarrassment. Even then, office 365 was never cool, not even now.
These two companies are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Google likes paradigms, impressive launches. Then, they expect that the paradigm, being better, will just win. Everyone will adapt to their new way. They don't have the belly for years of kludgy, schleppy work while everyone makes fun of them.
Google cloud was a great example of this. It was early. It solved the problems that needed solving, in theory... especially the sexy ones. Everyone just needed to abandon everything they had been doing and come over to the New Way.
This is the exact opposite mentality to the one that maintains badly thought out feature of excel from 1996, itself design to clumsily support Lotus notes features from 1985. A million boring details, technical debt and nothing sexy. Where there's muck there's brass.
Executing well on a new paradigm for a 30 year old suite, maintaining compatibility, etc. These are really hard, and MSFT's speciality. Office became office originally for maintaining meticulous compatibility with its predecessor, Lotus.
It's incredibly tedious, frustrating work. Takes a ton of perseverance. Google docs came out of the gate to oohs and ahs. It was slick. Cool, innovative features like real-time collaboration worked well. MSFT's start was much clunkier, and expectations were already high. It took years before it wasn't an embarrassment. Even then, office 365 was never cool, not even now.
These two companies are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Google likes paradigms, impressive launches. Then, they expect that the paradigm, being better, will just win. Everyone will adapt to their new way. They don't have the belly for years of kludgy, schleppy work while everyone makes fun of them.
Google cloud was a great example of this. It was early. It solved the problems that needed solving, in theory... especially the sexy ones. Everyone just needed to abandon everything they had been doing and come over to the New Way.
This is the exact opposite mentality to the one that maintains badly thought out feature of excel from 1996, itself design to clumsily support Lotus notes features from 1985. A million boring details, technical debt and nothing sexy. Where there's muck there's brass.
> Office 365 just destroys Google Docs
I disagree. Office licensing and the whole Microsoft account managament is so incredibly annoying to the point where I prefer the google suite simply because it works. Office recently left me stranded with an outdated license and no way to enable it because the ones in charge were not in office that day, so I went with google, and I'm sticking to it now even though there would be the option to enable to license. I don't want to go through the same hoops and hurdles every 6 months again.
I disagree. Office licensing and the whole Microsoft account managament is so incredibly annoying to the point where I prefer the google suite simply because it works. Office recently left me stranded with an outdated license and no way to enable it because the ones in charge were not in office that day, so I went with google, and I'm sticking to it now even though there would be the option to enable to license. I don't want to go through the same hoops and hurdles every 6 months again.
In the last 20 years they’re stock has only gone up 150%....
Yes that’s better than bankruptcy but Walmart is a far cry from a successful old incumbent being able to address new upstarts.
Also what makes you say Walmart Labs has great tech and hires top software talent?
A quick look on Glassdoor shows the salary is quite low (esp. as it’s based in San Bruno). I know plenty of new grads that are earning much more, even at non-FANG company. I imagine like most incumbents, Walmart underinvests in tech because they see it as a cost center.
The typical Walmart Labs Software Engineer salary is $116,635. Software Engineer salaries at Walmart Labs can range from $66,567 - $184,513.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Walmart-Labs-Software-Engin...
Yes that’s better than bankruptcy but Walmart is a far cry from a successful old incumbent being able to address new upstarts.
Also what makes you say Walmart Labs has great tech and hires top software talent?
A quick look on Glassdoor shows the salary is quite low (esp. as it’s based in San Bruno). I know plenty of new grads that are earning much more, even at non-FANG company. I imagine like most incumbents, Walmart underinvests in tech because they see it as a cost center.
The typical Walmart Labs Software Engineer salary is $116,635. Software Engineer salaries at Walmart Labs can range from $66,567 - $184,513.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Walmart-Labs-Software-Engin...
In the last 20 years they’re stock has only gone up 150%....
To be fair, they’ve been paying ~ 2% dividend yield that whole time. Still, if your comp is mostly in stock, those dividend payments hurt versus something like a buyback.
To be fair, they’ve been paying ~ 2% dividend yield that whole time. Still, if your comp is mostly in stock, those dividend payments hurt versus something like a buyback.
Dividends don't always "hurt". They let one automatically claim profits on a trade, without the hassle of divesting shares.
With trades being commission-free these days, that benefit is negligible. Even with $10 trades (the usual price before commission free trades), and you withdrawing $20k from your retirement account annually, once a month, that works out to a drag of 0.6%. OTOH there's a very real downside to getting paid dividends (and incurring a taxable event) when your income is high (eg. making 400k bay area salary. If it was poured into the stock price instead, you could wait until you retire and get taxed on a lower marginal rate.
What I mean is, if I get a stock grant spread out over four years, then the shares I receive in year 4 have implicitly had their value decreased by the dividends paid out in years 1-3.
But that assumes the company has the choice of keeping dividends and investing it smartly.
you enjoy your annual ex/cum-divi volatility and applying income tax and potentially overseas withholding taxes and exemptions and treaties rules?
the administration and process involved in setting dividends isn't very trivial either
and too often maintenance of dividend payments are placebos for lackadaisical areas of more important management responsibility
and it's too common for factions in the boardroom to be trying to serve and attract entirely different types of investors who would be better served with tracking stocks or demergers and so on
for some people any dividend unsupported by a very clear rationale is a red light but of course if you are doing in depth company analysis you may have all of this covered in your models and settlement and actions systems.
the administration and process involved in setting dividends isn't very trivial either
and too often maintenance of dividend payments are placebos for lackadaisical areas of more important management responsibility
and it's too common for factions in the boardroom to be trying to serve and attract entirely different types of investors who would be better served with tracking stocks or demergers and so on
for some people any dividend unsupported by a very clear rationale is a red light but of course if you are doing in depth company analysis you may have all of this covered in your models and settlement and actions systems.
Depends on the stock based compensation; some of them will be adjusted for dividends paid during vesting, and some won't.
>To be fair, they’ve been paying ~ 2% dividend yield that whole time.
If you check the total return price, they're actually doing better than the s&p 500.
total return for walmart: 223% (https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/total_return_price)
total return for S&P 500: 221% (https://ycharts.com/companies/SPY/total_return_price)
If you check the total return price, they're actually doing better than the s&p 500.
total return for walmart: 223% (https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/total_return_price)
total return for S&P 500: 221% (https://ycharts.com/companies/SPY/total_return_price)
Glassdoor grossly underreports the range of tech salaries to the point of being useless.
Something tells me only people who feel insecure about their pay report it to Glassdoor...
Point being, Glassdoor data is so incomplete that I don’t think you can meaningfully compare even two companies on it. Especially if they have different comp structures.
Something tells me only people who feel insecure about their pay report it to Glassdoor...
Point being, Glassdoor data is so incomplete that I don’t think you can meaningfully compare even two companies on it. Especially if they have different comp structures.
I figured it was because they have old data but I noticed the same.
Glassdoor numbers are inaccurate and 99% of the time only reflect base salary for every company I've looked up.
Stick with levels.fyi
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Walmart-Labs/salaries/Softwar...
While their RSUs are not at a FAANG level, the base + bonus are more than in line with top paying companies in CA.
Stick with levels.fyi
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Walmart-Labs/salaries/Softwar...
While their RSUs are not at a FAANG level, the base + bonus are more than in line with top paying companies in CA.
They could have been Sears, but they haven't made it far enough. They're doing enough to survive, but they're acting reactively, not proactively, to a changing environment. They will never come close to exceeding Amazon's level of innovation, for better or for worse. I think pointing to Jet detracts from their progress, given the Jet acquisition was a complete flop. They're fighting with everything they've got. But not even Walmart can truly compete. It's unclear if its talent, a leadership issue, the company's brand, or what exactly is holding Walmart back. I suppose that's good for Walmart: a lot of the elements look right to position them well. They just haven't figured it out 100%.
> They will never come close to exceeding Amazon's level of innovation, for better or for worse
Amazon stopped innovating as a store 5-10 years ago. Nothing has meaningfully changed for the better and things have gotten worse on the front of fake reviews and counterfeit products.
Amazon spent its innovation on AWS, which is not even the same industry Walmart is operating in.
Amazon stopped innovating as a store 5-10 years ago. Nothing has meaningfully changed for the better and things have gotten worse on the front of fake reviews and counterfeit products.
Amazon spent its innovation on AWS, which is not even the same industry Walmart is operating in.
Yeh they also totally fuck over farmers, employees, and even tried to pay Mexican employees in Walmart dollars while housing them in the back of the store.
It should have gone the way of sears. Its an abusive business that is bad for everyone.
It should have gone the way of sears. Its an abusive business that is bad for everyone.
In 1982 Wal-Mart was still exclusively a rural retailer, continuing to build scale but only in towns below a certain size.
It was not felt they could yet compete with more well-funded better-established chains. Most stores more closely resembled today's Dollar General than a big box There were not yet "superstores", and most people in big cities had never heard of them.
With IBM PC's not yet having a significant impact on business, and almost nobody doing any data networking compared to today, Wal-Mart already had a fully computerized POS/inventory/logistics-management system in every store, integrated into their headquarters in small-town Arkansas in almost real-time, with data-mining informing the financial decision making.
No one else had anything close, not Sears, Target, or Kmart, who were obviously going to end up having difficulty when Sam thought the time was right for Wal-Mart to come to the big cities.
Even though all these retailers had the same computer hardware in their respective headquarters, IBM's good old "impersonal" mainframes which only big companies could afford.
Walton would bus all his managers to Bentonville for a pow-wow every year, scheduled to start at 8 all week.
If you got there precisely at 8, you had already missed the most important half-hour with Sam, he would start at 0730.
Drove an old pickup truck too, so he could save money.
It was not felt they could yet compete with more well-funded better-established chains. Most stores more closely resembled today's Dollar General than a big box There were not yet "superstores", and most people in big cities had never heard of them.
With IBM PC's not yet having a significant impact on business, and almost nobody doing any data networking compared to today, Wal-Mart already had a fully computerized POS/inventory/logistics-management system in every store, integrated into their headquarters in small-town Arkansas in almost real-time, with data-mining informing the financial decision making.
No one else had anything close, not Sears, Target, or Kmart, who were obviously going to end up having difficulty when Sam thought the time was right for Wal-Mart to come to the big cities.
Even though all these retailers had the same computer hardware in their respective headquarters, IBM's good old "impersonal" mainframes which only big companies could afford.
Walton would bus all his managers to Bentonville for a pow-wow every year, scheduled to start at 8 all week.
If you got there precisely at 8, you had already missed the most important half-hour with Sam, he would start at 0730.
Drove an old pickup truck too, so he could save money.
The Walmart in-store pickup/returns experience is horrible. Long lines, employees are slow and unorganized. Several times I've gone to pick up an order and waited an addition 10+ minutes to have someone bring the item to the front of the store.
I would say the only thing that makes them competitive is their price.
I would say the only thing that makes them competitive is their price.
>I would say the only thing that makes them competitive is their price
That's the entire story of Walmart. Pretty much the only person that smiles is the greeter, and they aren't always very friendly.
That's the entire story of Walmart. Pretty much the only person that smiles is the greeter, and they aren't always very friendly.
I personally haven’t seen a Walmart greeter smile since they had smiley stickers.
Something to be said for just being able to walk in and do all your shopping for everything from groceries to clothes to televisions.
I forgot all about Jet until you just mentioned them. I should look into them as an amazon replacement.
Jet is gone. Shame, I was a fan.
The top talent they hire, quit within 2 years leaving behind the terrible engineers. Last I heard, the tried to build an A/B testing infrastructure that somehow managed to count clicks backwards. They tried to build an in house cloud platform too and failed miserably.
It is surprising what businesses have managed to keep up with Amazon.
I was amazed last year to find Argos, a traditional bricks and mortar catalogue based outlet here in the UK, now offer a good website and next day delivery to most of the mainland, and at competitive prices.
I was amazed last year to find Argos, a traditional bricks and mortar catalogue based outlet here in the UK, now offer a good website and next day delivery to most of the mainland, and at competitive prices.
> allowing Amazon's rise
By doing what, clearing out the rest of the local competition?
By doing what, clearing out the rest of the local competition?
And yet I don’t use them. I use Etsy. I use chewy. I use other niche e-commerce but I never use Walmart online.
They can’t just replicate Amazon they have to be better than Amazon.
They can’t just replicate Amazon they have to be better than Amazon.
I don’t think there’s a big crossover between things people buy on Etsy and things they buy on Walmart.
I wouldn’t say they’re replicating Amazon, they’re a brick and mortar chain with thousands of locations. That’s definitely a potential edge over Amazon.
I wouldn’t say they’re replicating Amazon, they’re a brick and mortar chain with thousands of locations. That’s definitely a potential edge over Amazon.
Really I shop walmart first check amazon for products not available. Usually works out cheaper. Etsy for which products?
Amazon’s my go to e-commerce place. I use chewy for dog things due to the 30% auto ship price hack. And niche sites for all else.
Amazon just has a superior webpage and shopping experience than all the other major players.
If it’s a big ticket item I might get it from a retail store. But with the recent kohls Amazon return policy I’m slowly changing that behavior as well.
Amazon just has a superior webpage and shopping experience than all the other major players.
If it’s a big ticket item I might get it from a retail store. But with the recent kohls Amazon return policy I’m slowly changing that behavior as well.
They are better than Amazon. You can filter search results on Walmart so that you don’t see third party reseller Aliexpress garbage and only stuff sourced by Walmart themselves.
Last I checked, Amazon had removed that option as of maybe a decade ago, and they commingle inventory so they do not assure me of any supply chain integrity.
And they are more expensive for any dense, heavy, especially liquid products.
Last I checked, Amazon had removed that option as of maybe a decade ago, and they commingle inventory so they do not assure me of any supply chain integrity.
And they are more expensive for any dense, heavy, especially liquid products.
I honestly just don’t care. If I want high quality I don’t go to Amazon I go elsewhere to niche retailers.
I never went to Walmart for better quality. Heck that’s why I personally use target more now. Slightly higher price and slightly better quality.
I never went to Walmart for better quality. Heck that’s why I personally use target more now. Slightly higher price and slightly better quality.
Does that filtering on Walmart’s website actually work, though? It’s broken half the time I try it.
I don’t use their website much, but that would be a shame if true. I did notice on the left I can checkmark Walmart as the seller.
Yeah, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.
You do food shopping on Etsy?? Ok.
Walmart doesn’t pay that well and isn’t regarded as a great tech place to work. It’s a good job, but someone who’s really serious about programming wouldn’t work there
I think Wal*Mart has an image problem.
I’ve gone into their stores. Their stock assortment isn’t bad compared to the competition. In fact, aside from Whole Foods on the organic/bio side of things, they measure up very well and better compared to their competition. They are more of a hypermart where you can do one stop shopping ala Carrefour.
The issues I see are: very drab color palette. Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
They could likely address this by having a second more upscale brand.
I’ve gone into their stores. Their stock assortment isn’t bad compared to the competition. In fact, aside from Whole Foods on the organic/bio side of things, they measure up very well and better compared to their competition. They are more of a hypermart where you can do one stop shopping ala Carrefour.
The issues I see are: very drab color palette. Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
They could likely address this by having a second more upscale brand.
Observations about the nearest Wal-Mart:
1) All the employees look sad, all he time.
2) They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long. This is such a constant that it has to be intentional, and they're doing a good job of it.
3) Sometimes they attempt to check receipts at exit. I don't get that at any other non-membership store.
4) All the shoppers look sad.
5) It's the only place I know where I am 100% guaranteed to smell both strong cigarette odor and way too-strong perfume application multiple times per visit.
6) The shoppers are uniquely talentless when it comes to existing in space without being in others' way. I don't see this anywhere else. It always feels 3x as busy as it is both because they cram the aisles full of crap, and because no-one knows how to walk or stand without being in the way. It's bizarre.
7) The most prominently-placed thing on entering the building is a row of gambling machines. I shit you not. They're directly ahead, and you have to veer right to enter the actual shopping area. That definitely sets a tone.
Most of these are true at any other Wal-Mart I visit. I avoid them most of the time, despite their having much lower prices than, say, target. The visits take longer and are miserable. Their weird interior color choices (WTF is up with that dirty-looking orangey-yellow?!) and something they do with the lighting (can't put my finger on it, it's just drab and dingy) make it even worse.
I'm about 90% sure that Wal-Mart didn't used to be this gross and unpleasant.
1) All the employees look sad, all he time.
2) They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long. This is such a constant that it has to be intentional, and they're doing a good job of it.
3) Sometimes they attempt to check receipts at exit. I don't get that at any other non-membership store.
4) All the shoppers look sad.
5) It's the only place I know where I am 100% guaranteed to smell both strong cigarette odor and way too-strong perfume application multiple times per visit.
6) The shoppers are uniquely talentless when it comes to existing in space without being in others' way. I don't see this anywhere else. It always feels 3x as busy as it is both because they cram the aisles full of crap, and because no-one knows how to walk or stand without being in the way. It's bizarre.
7) The most prominently-placed thing on entering the building is a row of gambling machines. I shit you not. They're directly ahead, and you have to veer right to enter the actual shopping area. That definitely sets a tone.
Most of these are true at any other Wal-Mart I visit. I avoid them most of the time, despite their having much lower prices than, say, target. The visits take longer and are miserable. Their weird interior color choices (WTF is up with that dirty-looking orangey-yellow?!) and something they do with the lighting (can't put my finger on it, it's just drab and dingy) make it even worse.
I'm about 90% sure that Wal-Mart didn't used to be this gross and unpleasant.
Varies by store.
The Walmart near me isn't like this. Only #2 is true.
Walmart is probably the #1 big box store where I live. Everyone shops there, rich and poor alike. It's clean, the people are fine and the staff are as happy as any other big box store staff. The Walmarts in the adjacent towns are similar. Most Walmarts I've seen are about like this. The tire center will have a Festiva in one bay and a Tesla in the nest
The Walmart near my work is very different. Way more dismal in all the ways you've described. I dunno about the gambling thing, that may vary by state and I've never seen it anywhere. But where I work has enough wealthy people to support other stores so the Walmart clientele is much poorer on average. I've been in probably a dozen Walmarts over the years and it's by far the worst.
The Walmart near me isn't like this. Only #2 is true.
Walmart is probably the #1 big box store where I live. Everyone shops there, rich and poor alike. It's clean, the people are fine and the staff are as happy as any other big box store staff. The Walmarts in the adjacent towns are similar. Most Walmarts I've seen are about like this. The tire center will have a Festiva in one bay and a Tesla in the nest
The Walmart near my work is very different. Way more dismal in all the ways you've described. I dunno about the gambling thing, that may vary by state and I've never seen it anywhere. But where I work has enough wealthy people to support other stores so the Walmart clientele is much poorer on average. I've been in probably a dozen Walmarts over the years and it's by far the worst.
Most of what you're observing is simply a reflection of the area demographics.
It's similar to visiting a small town DMV.
Your description of gambling machines reminds me of my last visit back home in IL, after they legalized gambling. It's very jarring to walk past locals glued to video slot machines at 9AM in a gas station. It's depressing as hell, I'm sure the walmarts have cashed in on the action too but I didn't visit one while there.
It's similar to visiting a small town DMV.
Your description of gambling machines reminds me of my last visit back home in IL, after they legalized gambling. It's very jarring to walk past locals glued to video slot machines at 9AM in a gas station. It's depressing as hell, I'm sure the walmarts have cashed in on the action too but I didn't visit one while there.
I don't think it fits quite as tightly in that description. I've been to many many walmarts and exactly one hasn't felt sad.
They've installed these gates at the walmart nearest to me that essentially force you to walk through a checkout line even if you don't end up buying anything. Most necessities are locked in cases and I always struggle to find the single employee with the key to any particular case, who then has to follow me to the checkout and have me pay for the item immediately.
The H-E-B two miles down the road is significantly nicer in almost every capacity and only marginally more expensive. The time I save not waiting in checkout lines (I scan everything on my phone at H-E-B then bag it while I shop) and looking for keys quite literally makes up the price difference and then some.
They've installed these gates at the walmart nearest to me that essentially force you to walk through a checkout line even if you don't end up buying anything. Most necessities are locked in cases and I always struggle to find the single employee with the key to any particular case, who then has to follow me to the checkout and have me pay for the item immediately.
The H-E-B two miles down the road is significantly nicer in almost every capacity and only marginally more expensive. The time I save not waiting in checkout lines (I scan everything on my phone at H-E-B then bag it while I shop) and looking for keys quite literally makes up the price difference and then some.
yep, I've shifted buying such locked up things online for in store pickup. It was totally annoying to have such a drag on time buzzing someone repeatedly to come and unlock. They should actually post a notice on the locked cabinets saying, "avoid the wait, order these products online for instore pickup"
I don't know why this is downvoted and I don't know why I didn't think of this comparison.
I've lived in five different states and been to Walmarts and flipped cars and the variance is EXACTLY like variance in DMVs in both QoS, clientele/employee demographics.
I've lived in five different states and been to Walmarts and flipped cars and the variance is EXACTLY like variance in DMVs in both QoS, clientele/employee demographics.
Right, the DMV has a monopoly on a service most adults require. There are competitors for simple services like registration renewal @ AAA, but that's less available in smaller communities. So when you go to a DMV somewhere there's only one DMV serving the region, it's a pretty good cross-section of local society.
Another interesting window in this vein is the local courthouse. The smaller towns don't separate out traffic violations from everything else, it's all on display handled in one room. You can get a sense of what's going on and the type of people in a given small town rather quickly this way.
When there's just one grocer serving a given area, it's effectively the same situation. But when competition eventually arrives, I think they tend to quickly divide along class boundaries.
Around here there's only one grocery store in my local town, and as a result it's actually pretty decent. The exact same chain has a very similar store in a significantly larger town ~25 miles away, where there's a competing upper-class grocer in the adjacent lot. The effect is devastating on the mediocre chain. Customers are treated poorly, the place is a filthy mess, cashiers aren't even trusted enough to manually enter prices when a barcode won't scan. The contrast is shocking, just next door in the higher end grocer none of these problems are experienced, but the prices are slightly higher.
Another interesting window in this vein is the local courthouse. The smaller towns don't separate out traffic violations from everything else, it's all on display handled in one room. You can get a sense of what's going on and the type of people in a given small town rather quickly this way.
When there's just one grocer serving a given area, it's effectively the same situation. But when competition eventually arrives, I think they tend to quickly divide along class boundaries.
Around here there's only one grocery store in my local town, and as a result it's actually pretty decent. The exact same chain has a very similar store in a significantly larger town ~25 miles away, where there's a competing upper-class grocer in the adjacent lot. The effect is devastating on the mediocre chain. Customers are treated poorly, the place is a filthy mess, cashiers aren't even trusted enough to manually enter prices when a barcode won't scan. The contrast is shocking, just next door in the higher end grocer none of these problems are experienced, but the prices are slightly higher.
Profit per dollar for grocery stores is about half of one cent for every dollar of revenue. Shrinkage eats into that profit very quickly.
This is why Walgreens is closing stores in SF. They cannot survive with the rampant unprosecuted shoplifting in SF.
This is why Walgreens is closing stores in SF. They cannot survive with the rampant unprosecuted shoplifting in SF.
That profit margin sounds very off. Is there a reference you are using to determine that? For an average $200 bill the store makes 1 dollar?
Every time I hear people talking about "grocery store margins" the numbers get smaller and smaller, and I suspect "Hollywood accounting" may be behind some of the numbers people are thinking/repeating.
I can say some of the shops around here have always been pricey, but a Lidl came in to town and manages to undercut every other store by around 30% on pretty much every comparable item. Overall, stores making 0.5% profit simply doesn't add up. We've got more new chains moving in to the area, existing stores moving (merely half a mile away for access to better demographics), and this is all costing tens of millions in construction alone. Note: I realize that other regions may have store closures to balance this out too - some areas boom, others shrink.
I can not believe multi-billion companies would be putting up tens/hundreds of millions to chase after these minuscule (and apparently shrinking) profit margins. Maybe I'm wrong. Or perhaps this meme of "grocery stores never make a profit!" is wrong, or at least overblown. A quick check up of a regional store indicates their net profit is somewhere around 2.3% of sales volume - not stellar, but not terribly close to 0.5% either.
EDIT: bit more info/breakdown on the subject: https://thegrocerystoreguy.com/what-is-the-profit-margin-for...
EDIT 2: FWIW, on your $200 example, the company making 'only' $1, it's probably more like $4-$5, but that's after all other expenses (labor, inventory, insurance, advertising, etc) is factored in.
I can say some of the shops around here have always been pricey, but a Lidl came in to town and manages to undercut every other store by around 30% on pretty much every comparable item. Overall, stores making 0.5% profit simply doesn't add up. We've got more new chains moving in to the area, existing stores moving (merely half a mile away for access to better demographics), and this is all costing tens of millions in construction alone. Note: I realize that other regions may have store closures to balance this out too - some areas boom, others shrink.
I can not believe multi-billion companies would be putting up tens/hundreds of millions to chase after these minuscule (and apparently shrinking) profit margins. Maybe I'm wrong. Or perhaps this meme of "grocery stores never make a profit!" is wrong, or at least overblown. A quick check up of a regional store indicates their net profit is somewhere around 2.3% of sales volume - not stellar, but not terribly close to 0.5% either.
EDIT: bit more info/breakdown on the subject: https://thegrocerystoreguy.com/what-is-the-profit-margin-for...
EDIT 2: FWIW, on your $200 example, the company making 'only' $1, it's probably more like $4-$5, but that's after all other expenses (labor, inventory, insurance, advertising, etc) is factored in.
It is pretty easy to search for 10-K for all the big retail companies. They all show sub 5% profit margins, frequently in the 2% to 3% range. It is a pretty cut throat business.
Lidl is probably coming in and destroying competition by running leaner operations with less payroll due to not having to deal with legacy unions. It happens and has happens in many businesses (see declining real wages for past few decades for bottom 3 quintiles), but a lot of the “growth” in retail comes from cutting labor costs.
Lidl is probably coming in and destroying competition by running leaner operations with less payroll due to not having to deal with legacy unions. It happens and has happens in many businesses (see declining real wages for past few decades for bottom 3 quintiles), but a lot of the “growth” in retail comes from cutting labor costs.
I did reference looking up numbers for a regional chain - net profit was 2.3% - this is still > 4x higher than 0.5%. I don't doubt some operate (for a while) at a sub 1% profit, but have to imagine those end up closing down eventually. Per the article I linked to, there was reference to smaller operations that focus on 'upscale' services may be north of 5% net profits (but are likely doing less volume overall).
Lidl likely is 'winning' there (if indeed there's legacy union component to their pricing). They also scaled back their expansion plans. The one by us is moderately large, and newer ones (and future planned ones) are (and will be ) smaller.
Within a 3 mile radius, we have a Walmart, Lidl, Aldi, Target, Wegmans, Lowes, Food Lion, Harris Teeter, Lowes, and Harris Teeter (yes, 2 Lowes and 2 Harris Teeters). This is in North Carolina - some of these are regional chains. The Lowes and HT have historically been some of the consistently highest prices for anything, and I'm honestly baffled how people can afford to shop there regularly.
Yes, perhaps keeping a bit more money 'local' (vs that money going out of state) might be a 'good thing', somehow, but it's hard for me to justify it. Perhaps, if there's real benefit, they need to do some better PR. Or perhaps they have, and everyone else 'gets it', and I've just not heard it?
I wanted a bag of frozen cherries. Local HT - 'name brand' was $5.25. HT store brand was ~$4.25. Walmart store brand was ~$3. Target store brand was $1.89. (same sizes for all - all late 2019 prices from memory). I have a hard time justifying spending 100% more for generic brand stuff. Cheeses, milk, bread, cereals, eggs, meats - our local HT is almost always at least 50% more than the Lidl or Target or Walmart. Maybe these disparities aren't as great in other regions, and this will shake itself out eventually?
EDIT: found some HT numbers from a few years ago that indicated their net profit was closer to 3.6%. They also have a profit sharing program, which may account for aiming for a higher profit percent.
Lidl likely is 'winning' there (if indeed there's legacy union component to their pricing). They also scaled back their expansion plans. The one by us is moderately large, and newer ones (and future planned ones) are (and will be ) smaller.
Within a 3 mile radius, we have a Walmart, Lidl, Aldi, Target, Wegmans, Lowes, Food Lion, Harris Teeter, Lowes, and Harris Teeter (yes, 2 Lowes and 2 Harris Teeters). This is in North Carolina - some of these are regional chains. The Lowes and HT have historically been some of the consistently highest prices for anything, and I'm honestly baffled how people can afford to shop there regularly.
Yes, perhaps keeping a bit more money 'local' (vs that money going out of state) might be a 'good thing', somehow, but it's hard for me to justify it. Perhaps, if there's real benefit, they need to do some better PR. Or perhaps they have, and everyone else 'gets it', and I've just not heard it?
I wanted a bag of frozen cherries. Local HT - 'name brand' was $5.25. HT store brand was ~$4.25. Walmart store brand was ~$3. Target store brand was $1.89. (same sizes for all - all late 2019 prices from memory). I have a hard time justifying spending 100% more for generic brand stuff. Cheeses, milk, bread, cereals, eggs, meats - our local HT is almost always at least 50% more than the Lidl or Target or Walmart. Maybe these disparities aren't as great in other regions, and this will shake itself out eventually?
EDIT: found some HT numbers from a few years ago that indicated their net profit was closer to 3.6%. They also have a profit sharing program, which may account for aiming for a higher profit percent.
Depends on the outfit, some are better than others, but this source[1] puts the ave at 2.2%. I knew an mgr at one of these and they told me 0.5% to 1%.
[1]https://smallbusiness.chron.com/profit-margin-supermarket-22...
[1]https://smallbusiness.chron.com/profit-margin-supermarket-22...
I would have to guess, that Walgreens is going out of business, because they are the one store which hasn't ever improved their POS methodology beyond what we used to find in Sears, or Rite-Aid, holy cow, I've not forgotten, what did they used to be called ? Lol. I go to Walgreens to buy cigarettes because I know and live around the checkers who work there, but it is always a complete disaster. Today, was a perfect example. They "found" a device on the pin pad, and it took 10 minutes to find people in the store to man another register, then look at it, make sure it wasn't compromised, and there were 15 people in line. But par for the course in there. There will be 10 people lined up at the front, and they'll still man cosmetic and photo stations with no customers, and never really reposition employees. I don't get mad anymore. I go in and know what I'm in for. IC3 .... IC3 ..... IC3 ....
I was going to say Walmart has exactly the feel of a US public institution like a prison, DMV, immigration and customs etc. You can get a good deal but as soon as any human effort to provide service is required all bets are off, and the whole place feels vaguely hostile.
My closest Walmart is in a town of 20,000 or so. There’s also a Target a few blocks away. The people that shop at either could not be more different. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone above 350 lbs at the Target. Walmart? Probably every time I’ve been in there.
That was my impression in Vegas. It at least seems kind of glamorous in the casinos, but seeing someone gambling in a gas station doesn’t put you in a good mood.
The staff are miserable because the pay is shit, and they’re likely collecting or eligible for welfare. The customers treat them like shit. The shit that happens in and around Walmart’s is soul destroying.
If Walmart started treating their staff like Costco we’d see a lot happier staff, and pay less taxes on entitlements.
If Walmart started treating their staff like Costco we’d see a lot happier staff, and pay less taxes on entitlements.
> If Walmart started treating their staff like Costco
If Walmart paid their staff like Costco their prices would be high like Costco’s and there would be little reason for them to exist anymore.
For people on a budget, Costco’s prices are terrible on many basic items. The “bulk prices” in many categories (e.g. dairy) are at best the same price per unit as Walmart with the huge purchase requirement.
Costco is for middle to upper middle class incomes and Walmart is for middle to lower class incomes. If you don’t recognize the price difference between the stores, you are privileged enough to be in the former category.
If Walmart paid their staff like Costco their prices would be high like Costco’s and there would be little reason for them to exist anymore.
For people on a budget, Costco’s prices are terrible on many basic items. The “bulk prices” in many categories (e.g. dairy) are at best the same price per unit as Walmart with the huge purchase requirement.
Costco is for middle to upper middle class incomes and Walmart is for middle to lower class incomes. If you don’t recognize the price difference between the stores, you are privileged enough to be in the former category.
“If Walmart paid their staff ... little reason for them to exist”
I would believe that if the Waltons weren’t one of (the?) richest families in the world. They can afford to pay more but don’t as the US taxpayer is making up the difference in welfare.
Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.
I would believe that if the Waltons weren’t one of (the?) richest families in the world. They can afford to pay more but don’t as the US taxpayer is making up the difference in welfare.
Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.
“There exists people who got rich” does not make a model suddenly sustainable.
Estimated Walton family wealth is $250 bill. Walmart employs 2.2 million people. Pay them all $10k more per year and the Walton wealth would be gone after a decade (ignoring the fact that losing money for years in a row would eliminate the Walton wealth much faster due to stock declines).
Walmart’s model is just not sustainable at Costco level pay.
> They can afford to pay more but don’t as the US taxpayer is making up the difference in welfare.
If you don’t like that people can get welfare on minimum wage, either eliminate welfare at that wage level or raise the minimum wage until people who make minimum wage don’t qualify.
> Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.
It is the government who decides to pay welfare at these levels. If you want to ban people from making money at those hourly rates, go ahead. But this is not a case of “socialize the cost” because being a Walmart employee making $25k + welfare is still better than being unemployed and just getting welfare.
Estimated Walton family wealth is $250 bill. Walmart employs 2.2 million people. Pay them all $10k more per year and the Walton wealth would be gone after a decade (ignoring the fact that losing money for years in a row would eliminate the Walton wealth much faster due to stock declines).
Walmart’s model is just not sustainable at Costco level pay.
> They can afford to pay more but don’t as the US taxpayer is making up the difference in welfare.
If you don’t like that people can get welfare on minimum wage, either eliminate welfare at that wage level or raise the minimum wage until people who make minimum wage don’t qualify.
> Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.
It is the government who decides to pay welfare at these levels. If you want to ban people from making money at those hourly rates, go ahead. But this is not a case of “socialize the cost” because being a Walmart employee making $25k + welfare is still better than being unemployed and just getting welfare.
Yeah, I didn't intend that as a slight against the employees. It's just another thing that makes shopping there unpleasant. I don't expect that employees at a store like that put on a bunch of fake-happiness for my sake, but Wal-Mart's give off strong "I hate this shit" vibes that I don't get other places. I don't blame them (the employees) for it, though.
strong "I hate this shit" vibes that I don't get other places
I got that at Safeway on Market/Church in SF. But in other places I've seen Walmart and other stores' staff have been much happier and nicer. Even though these chains try to have consistent experiences across locations, there is a pretty large variability from city to city.
I got that at Safeway on Market/Church in SF. But in other places I've seen Walmart and other stores' staff have been much happier and nicer. Even though these chains try to have consistent experiences across locations, there is a pretty large variability from city to city.
I agree, but would Walmart paying their staff like Costco to help them have some happiness in their life be enough to get customers like us in their stores?
There’s still the whole, all very poor people shop there dynamic that isn’t going away unless someone can undercut Walmart significantly.
There’s still the whole, all very poor people shop there dynamic that isn’t going away unless someone can undercut Walmart significantly.
The Walmarts around me pay ~$15/hr which isn't much less than Costco.
One thing I've noted in general is Costco employees are much younger on average than Walmart employees.
I almost never find an old employee at Costco, while at Walmart most of them are old or middle aged.
I almost never find an old employee at Costco, while at Walmart most of them are old or middle aged.
Walmart often has stores in poorer areas than Costco, which is likely why you see the age discrepancy.
Not really, my experience is based on both in the Bay Area, and includes WalMart neighborhood stores.
I think it has to do with lot of older people shopping at Walmart so they feel comfortable around others. Don't know.
I think it has to do with lot of older people shopping at Walmart so they feel comfortable around others. Don't know.
your experience is literally in the most HCOL city in the United States.
Costco also has a pretty robust internal promotion system from what I've heard, so older employees might also be occupying management spots.
Though it might also be that nearly every piece of stock at a Costco will be significantly heavier than that at Walmart, making it difficult for older people who might have more in the way of back problems etc to work there.
Though it might also be that nearly every piece of stock at a Costco will be significantly heavier than that at Walmart, making it difficult for older people who might have more in the way of back problems etc to work there.
This is my observation too, I often wondered if Walmart wasn't around what would be these folks alternatives?
There's something to #6. I agree it's pronounced at Walmarts. I've observed the same lack of sensitivity when going to a Costco in a poor side of town vs a more well to do, I've used that repeated experience as an Apples to Apples comparison. The shoppers in the poorer part demonstrate poor personal spatial habits and being oblivious to blocking others or other actions that demonstrate blinders and indifference to being in the presence of other people and general shopping etiquette. Blocking products, aisles, not yielding enough space, not making eye contact when you're about to intersect paths. It's nothing super egregious and extreme but it's noticeable, and I'm sure probably measurable too if one had a body cam and documented situation A vs B over a several trips and itemized all the strange encounters.
If I'm at a Whole Foods, the sensitivity is way at the other extreme of politeness. I wonder if anyone's ever went deep on an analysis of this sort of phenomenon.
If I'm at a Whole Foods, the sensitivity is way at the other extreme of politeness. I wonder if anyone's ever went deep on an analysis of this sort of phenomenon.
It's a true point albeit a delicate one. I have a colleague who is not the brightest (not a developer ;)) and what I've noticed with him is that there's something of a misunderstanding of social contexts in that he interpretes things others do as in bad faith when they're anything but and which is why in such social contexts he's constantly agitated. So he's simply missing the empathy or emotional intelligence to see things from the viewpoint of another person. He'd be one of the people being annoyed that others don't make room for him but also in the same vein he'd be one of those persons not watching out for others simply because he'd have his head full of thinking about himself and what he wants to buy, he simply wouldn't have the mental capability to think about other shoppers in that moment.
Your friend sounds like he has PTSD from some sort of mistreatment.
>They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long. This is such a constant that it has to be intentional, and they're doing a good job of it.
Macy's has a similarly annoying policy. They deliberately keeping their cash registers unmanned, which they apparently tell their employees is to "avoid intimidating customers" so you have to stand around waiting or seek out an employee manually. I thought my local Macy's was simply understaffed, but since learning they do it on purpose I've decided never to go there again.
Macy's has a similarly annoying policy. They deliberately keeping their cash registers unmanned, which they apparently tell their employees is to "avoid intimidating customers" so you have to stand around waiting or seek out an employee manually. I thought my local Macy's was simply understaffed, but since learning they do it on purpose I've decided never to go there again.
Once, as a child, I grabbed the phone behind the counter, hit the PA button, and requested a cashier at our section. It worked! Probably wouldn’t go over so well as an adult, though.
I've done this as an adult. They got mad but I just ignored it and said "are you going to check me out" and they did.
Tangentially related. In college or football team would go to old country buffet. Which has a microphone in the wall to order more from the kitchen for the staff. One of our smart ass players went up and said "we need more fried chicken". The manager caught him and scolded him. Then looked at the buffet and said "make that two orders of fried chicken" in the mic.
Tangentially related. In college or football team would go to old country buffet. Which has a microphone in the wall to order more from the kitchen for the staff. One of our smart ass players went up and said "we need more fried chicken". The manager caught him and scolded him. Then looked at the buffet and said "make that two orders of fried chicken" in the mic.
Honestly if I'm ever dragged there by someone else I'll try it and report back.
I think that’s their public justification. The reality is there’s a camera pointed at each one and a couple of pool cashiers that run to any as needed.
I'm sure it's a lie too. They probably found they could save money by understaffing their store and/or customers would buy more stuff if they have to wait around more. I'm sure it works on one scale, but on the other hand they seem to be confused about why they are losing customers to online shopping or other stores. I'm sure I'm not the only person to stop using them.
Longer lines and things like the occasional light bulb burned out psychologically made people think they were getting a better deal.
The store is just like a Vegas casino, every last thing has been thought out and everything is A/B tested down to a regional and sometimes city basis.
The store is just like a Vegas casino, every last thing has been thought out and everything is A/B tested down to a regional and sometimes city basis.
I suppose that the long lines go next to aisles with some last-minute stuff like candy, chewing gum, small toys, etc, which the bored people in the line have to see and may feel a craving to grab. If not them, then their children who experience boredom more acutely.
no, it's just a burned out lightbulb.
I believe it, but what were they trying to optimize?
If all of their changes are focused on near-term bottom line, is it really surprising if that comes at the expense of customer/employee satisfaction and brand reputation?
If all of their changes are focused on near-term bottom line, is it really surprising if that comes at the expense of customer/employee satisfaction and brand reputation?
Walmart ultimately measures everything against lifetime customer value. They don't really care about maximizing revenue on a specific trip because most people come in to the store with a fixed budget of what they can spend anyway - but they sure as heck want you to return.
Fixed income customers see things like an ultra clean speed and efficient store as 1) intimidating and 2) overhead that makes prices go up and "wastes" their money.
Fixed income customers see things like an ultra clean speed and efficient store as 1) intimidating and 2) overhead that makes prices go up and "wastes" their money.
I’ve seen Walmarts churning through shoppers with really impressive speed so I guess some of them didn’t get the memo.
#3 really irks me, because they don’t check everyone’s receipts. I was stopped and asked for a receipt two days ago for a gallon of milk I had in the cart because it “wasn’t in a bag” while other people walked past.
I can understand e.g. when I buy a TV, but a gallon of milk is ridiculous and profiling.
I can understand e.g. when I buy a TV, but a gallon of milk is ridiculous and profiling.
I think this is a sign of a regional monopoly, like when the cable company gives you a six hour window for a service call. It probably isn't worth the small amount of theft you stop to alienate customers (otherwise grocers in Los Angeles would do it) by checking receipts. But if you are the only affordable store in town you don't really have to worry about alienating customers.
In most states in the US (all?) you are not obligated to stop and show your receipt. It may be polite, and you may do it, but you are not required to do so. For membership stores, it may be a condition of membership, but it still may not be legally required.
Any employee that stops you might be guilty of kidnapping.
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/consumer-protection/prote...
Any employee that stops you might be guilty of kidnapping.
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/consumer-protection/prote...
Yep, just keep walking.
Just say no. They won’t/can’t stop you. Costco has it in their membership agreement but stores that aren’t memberships; you didn’t agree to it and you have no obligation to show it. Worst case you get banned.
> Worst case you get banned
Worst case is they call the local PD who are having a bad day and want to point a gun at a black man
Worst case is they call the local PD who are having a bad day and want to point a gun at a black man
I understand I can say no but this is the only Walmart in my routine that isn’t a super center (it’s a “neighborhood market”) so I don’t yet want to get banned from there. I am planning to start shopping at somewhere besides Walmart in the near future though.
If you think about what they are doing, they are searching your personal belonging. That bag is yours. Do you want to give money to a store that thinks it reasonable to randomly search customers?
I just hand them the receipt and keep walking. Nobody’s ever said a word about it.
Here in far west West Des Moines, they have LOTS of checkout lines, which once had a fair number of people behind the registers. Now, you're lucky if two of them have people. I think they are really nudging you to go through the self-checkout or to order via the web and either pick it up or have it delivered. The number of aisles occupied by people either stocking or shopping for online orders also seriously encourages you to go away and order online.
Also, it doesn’t quite help that their color palette is fluorescent white and blue, which is something that evokes, say, a dreary clinical setting, and not necessarily somewhere you want to shop.
With the low cri fluorescent lights.
Always ™
Regarding nearly all of these points, if you're on tight fixed-income budget, these don't matter, you don't have much choice. Similarly, you don't have much choice when Walmart is the only option around without a fair bit more travel, unless you pay very large markups at local convenience stores.
#7 is a separate issue though. That is a predatory practice and I'm glad I live in a state where it isn't allowed.
#7 is a separate issue though. That is a predatory practice and I'm glad I live in a state where it isn't allowed.
> 2) They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long. This is such a constant that it has to be intentional, and they're doing a good job of it.
They're also the only store I know of that shuts down their checkouts at closing time; if you were already in line, too bad, they'll check you out tomorrow. (Of course, a lot of their stores are 24x7)
They're also the only store I know of that shuts down their checkouts at closing time; if you were already in line, too bad, they'll check you out tomorrow. (Of course, a lot of their stores are 24x7)
This would piss me off enough to never come back.
Broke people need to shop too.
GP probably should avoid shopping on the 1st in the US too. Be a shame to run into those EBT people. They hold up the line with coupons also.
I'm still debating the merits of growing up on a Rez versus how I see my fellow humans.
I'm still debating the merits of growing up on a Rez versus how I see my fellow humans.
Only three of my seven observations are about the shoppers. Only one of those three isn't a choice: seeming sad, at a much higher rate than at other stores—shit, even Dollar General shoppers don't look as down as Wal-Mart shoppers, though, given the rest of my list, maybe they just look sad because they're at Wal-Mart. Dollar General's fun (for me, dunno about anyone else who's there). Wal-Mart is... exhausting.
Only time I see that much concentrated sadness in a store, that consistently, is when I find myself in a dying-rural-town grocery store that looks like it time-travelled from 1990. I don't remember whether those were sad places when I was growing up, mostly in those same sorts of dying rural towns. Wal-Mart wasn't, and their store function, service, cleanliness, and design all improved constantly through about '05, then abruptly reversed course and haven't stopped going downhill. Dunno what happened. Maybe Amazon happened, though that doesn't explain some of their oddly ill-looking paint color choices from the last couple re-designs.
Only time I see that much concentrated sadness in a store, that consistently, is when I find myself in a dying-rural-town grocery store that looks like it time-travelled from 1990. I don't remember whether those were sad places when I was growing up, mostly in those same sorts of dying rural towns. Wal-Mart wasn't, and their store function, service, cleanliness, and design all improved constantly through about '05, then abruptly reversed course and haven't stopped going downhill. Dunno what happened. Maybe Amazon happened, though that doesn't explain some of their oddly ill-looking paint color choices from the last couple re-designs.
> They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long.
I’ve noticed this at Walmart. However, I’ve noticed it’s worse at Target, (an arguably higher end store) where I’ve observed the queue reaching from one end of the store to the next. Interestingly, I’ve also noticed this effect on grocery chains in my area. Fry’s (Kroger) seems to have many queues open, which go quickly, whereas the higher end Safeway will have 1-2 queues open and zero open after hours.
All stores are bad with lines, until you get to really high end (like Whole Foods or Natural Grocers), but Paradoxically the more expensive stores (mid range, like Target and Safeway) are the worst offenders out of everyone. I don’t know why this is. Maybe they don’t have enough customers and not enough profit to justify more staff, or maybe they found that if the lines are long, customers will make another trip around the store and buy more stuff.
I’ve noticed this at Walmart. However, I’ve noticed it’s worse at Target, (an arguably higher end store) where I’ve observed the queue reaching from one end of the store to the next. Interestingly, I’ve also noticed this effect on grocery chains in my area. Fry’s (Kroger) seems to have many queues open, which go quickly, whereas the higher end Safeway will have 1-2 queues open and zero open after hours.
All stores are bad with lines, until you get to really high end (like Whole Foods or Natural Grocers), but Paradoxically the more expensive stores (mid range, like Target and Safeway) are the worst offenders out of everyone. I don’t know why this is. Maybe they don’t have enough customers and not enough profit to justify more staff, or maybe they found that if the lines are long, customers will make another trip around the store and buy more stuff.
The one nearer me has a great self-checkout area. I usually prefer self-checkout, and my wait is rarely longer than 1 minute. I don't shop there often - perhaps 2x per month for some specific items, but long checkout is never an issue.
That said, it used to be, before the self-checkout area. And, when traveling, I end up popping in to Walmarts in various parts of the country now and then, and the checkout times are always a gamble.
re: #6 - I wonder if it has something to do with the aisles being there more for the convenience of the packers and movement of goods in the store, vs the convenience of shoppers. I understand your point, and do notice it sometimes, and have tried to compare it to other shops. However, in the last few years, I found myself going to shops less and less overall, so it's harder for me to remember and compare against competitors fairly.
That said, it used to be, before the self-checkout area. And, when traveling, I end up popping in to Walmarts in various parts of the country now and then, and the checkout times are always a gamble.
re: #6 - I wonder if it has something to do with the aisles being there more for the convenience of the packers and movement of goods in the store, vs the convenience of shoppers. I understand your point, and do notice it sometimes, and have tried to compare it to other shops. However, in the last few years, I found myself going to shops less and less overall, so it's harder for me to remember and compare against competitors fairly.
Then you live in, or near, a shithole.
Nothing about your list describes Walmarts in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, except perhaps the poorest parts of Dallas, which I have not personally visited.
Grapevine, Flower Mound, Roanoke, Rome, Keller, Preston Hollow Walmarts are all immaculately maintained and clean.
Nothing about your list describes Walmarts in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, except perhaps the poorest parts of Dallas, which I have not personally visited.
Grapevine, Flower Mound, Roanoke, Rome, Keller, Preston Hollow Walmarts are all immaculately maintained and clean.
[deleted]
I guarantee that if Amazon was a physical retail location it would look exactly the same.
It would look worse.
I'm currently working on robotics deployment for several new Amazon warehouses and I hate having to visit the already operating ones - everyone looks like they would jump out of the window like the people at Foxconn, except they don't because they know the fall wouldn't kill them.
Amazon is truly staffed with geniuses at the upper echelons... keep the peasants who make the whole operation work away from the customers, that way the customers can always feel good about buying from Amazon. Walmart doesn't have that luxury, what with it's enormous physical presence and all.
I'm currently working on robotics deployment for several new Amazon warehouses and I hate having to visit the already operating ones - everyone looks like they would jump out of the window like the people at Foxconn, except they don't because they know the fall wouldn't kill them.
Amazon is truly staffed with geniuses at the upper echelons... keep the peasants who make the whole operation work away from the customers, that way the customers can always feel good about buying from Amazon. Walmart doesn't have that luxury, what with it's enormous physical presence and all.
Probably worse. Paint is such a frill. As is lighting when you’re not in an aisle. And when you are, why not light upward from below? Cheaper to change the bulbs then.
Are the prices at Walmart really that much lower than Target? On the limited amount of stuff I buy, it’s not been the case.
For an equivalent item, Target is usually not much more expensive, if any. But, Walmart carries cheaper alternatives and a wider selection than Target.
I haven’t noticed a difference in most things. Some things are cheaper at Walmart, but they also often have companies make worse versions of products for them just so they can sell them cheaper.
Clothes are notorious for this.
"Wow, [mid-tier jeans brand] is only $16/pair at Wal-Mart, and they're $40 when you find them on sale on [jeans brand]'s web site. What a bargain!"
... but then it turns out they're not the same thing, even if they're made to look very much like they are even down to the labelling, and in fact the manufacturer produces a separate low-end- and outlet-stores version that's much worse than their standard product.
"Wow, [mid-tier jeans brand] is only $16/pair at Wal-Mart, and they're $40 when you find them on sale on [jeans brand]'s web site. What a bargain!"
... but then it turns out they're not the same thing, even if they're made to look very much like they are even down to the labelling, and in fact the manufacturer produces a separate low-end- and outlet-stores version that's much worse than their standard product.
A different phenomenon but somewhat related is when good brands have an unusual sale item (not a close out). It seems to be where the MFG had a bad run and they’re noticing a higher rate of returns so they put them on sale. It’s not worth it, get the full price version and avoid the defects (like seal quality, adhesive quality, material quality, etc.)
>2) They've obviously carefully tuned their check out staffing so that the lines are always long. This is such a constant that it has to be intentional, and they're doing a good job of it.
---
This is actually an anti-pattern in their org;
They have FAILED to properly train to and address this problem, thus it persists.
Its not intentional - it is through lack of taking a focus on this aspect of their business, or looking at it - and determining they prefer/dont mind it...
---
This is actually an anti-pattern in their org;
They have FAILED to properly train to and address this problem, thus it persists.
Its not intentional - it is through lack of taking a focus on this aspect of their business, or looking at it - and determining they prefer/dont mind it...
Uniquely talentless when it comes to existing in space
Brilliant turn of phrase!
Brilliant turn of phrase!
It’s funny seeing many posts on HN rallying against capitalism, decrying the cycle of poverty and food deserts and then see someone complain about seeing poor people at Walmart.
Sorry you have to mix with the “rabble”!
Sorry you have to mix with the “rabble”!
I think you lost the context. Wal*Mart is threatened by other retailers. Why might they be losing foot traffic/customers/sales?
People want to shop with others of similar taste/preferences. They presently cater to the one of the lowest common denominators (Dollar stores could be lower, I guess), so how could they appeal to other shoppers?
That’s the crux of the question. The current stores appeal to one audience but not another.
Whole Foods has the same problem, except from the other direction. Working class folks will sneer at Whole Foods. It’s not their bag. Amazon would have to open something that caters to price conscious shoppers if they wanted to expand groceries to working class shoppers...
People want to shop with others of similar taste/preferences. They presently cater to the one of the lowest common denominators (Dollar stores could be lower, I guess), so how could they appeal to other shoppers?
That’s the crux of the question. The current stores appeal to one audience but not another.
Whole Foods has the same problem, except from the other direction. Working class folks will sneer at Whole Foods. It’s not their bag. Amazon would have to open something that caters to price conscious shoppers if they wanted to expand groceries to working class shoppers...
Jesus, tell me about it.. the entitlement in this post is un-fucking-believable.
Furthermore, I'm wondering what shitholes these people live in or near where they actually experience this sort of thing.
The Walmarts around Keller, Texas are nothing like what's being described here... although granted, this is an upper middle class area of Texas, and unlike California, we don't allow people to steal shit out of our pharmacies with impunity, nor do we allow people to shit on our streets.
Furthermore, I'm wondering what shitholes these people live in or near where they actually experience this sort of thing.
The Walmarts around Keller, Texas are nothing like what's being described here... although granted, this is an upper middle class area of Texas, and unlike California, we don't allow people to steal shit out of our pharmacies with impunity, nor do we allow people to shit on our streets.
I gotta say that either your Walmart is worse than any I’ve ever been to or you’re in your own head a bit.
> I think Wal*Mart has an image problem.
If you know their history then you understand how they got where they are.
Walmart grew in the 80s and 90s by planting itself just outside the city limits of small towns across America. They attracted the towns people with low prices and jobs. Their presence eventually shutdown every competing small business in those towns and the former purveyors of those businesses often wound up working at Walmart. Businesses that didn't directly compete often setup shop inside the Walmart leasing space from them. That is until Walmart started partnering up with larger chains and pushing those small businesses out.
At the same time Walmart was strangling small businesses in small town America, they were also putting the squeeze on suppliers. They were demanding custom products at lower prices from companies who were forced to outsource to other countries in order to meet Walmart's demands. Well known American brands like Huffy went from being proudly made in America to just being stickers slapped on products coming off the boat from China.
If you drove across the US in the 90s you'd run through empty ghost towns and as soon as you'd hit the "Now leaving..." sign for the town there'd be a Walmart Supercenter with a parking lot full of vehicles. Walmart destroyed small town America by draining towns of tax revenues and running small businesses under.
Through all of this Walmart proudly displayed Made in the USA or some other patriotic bullshit on the outside of their stores.
Yeah Walmart has an image problem, and there isn't anything they can do about it in my opinion.
If you know their history then you understand how they got where they are.
Walmart grew in the 80s and 90s by planting itself just outside the city limits of small towns across America. They attracted the towns people with low prices and jobs. Their presence eventually shutdown every competing small business in those towns and the former purveyors of those businesses often wound up working at Walmart. Businesses that didn't directly compete often setup shop inside the Walmart leasing space from them. That is until Walmart started partnering up with larger chains and pushing those small businesses out.
At the same time Walmart was strangling small businesses in small town America, they were also putting the squeeze on suppliers. They were demanding custom products at lower prices from companies who were forced to outsource to other countries in order to meet Walmart's demands. Well known American brands like Huffy went from being proudly made in America to just being stickers slapped on products coming off the boat from China.
If you drove across the US in the 90s you'd run through empty ghost towns and as soon as you'd hit the "Now leaving..." sign for the town there'd be a Walmart Supercenter with a parking lot full of vehicles. Walmart destroyed small town America by draining towns of tax revenues and running small businesses under.
Through all of this Walmart proudly displayed Made in the USA or some other patriotic bullshit on the outside of their stores.
Yeah Walmart has an image problem, and there isn't anything they can do about it in my opinion.
It sucks that while there are enumerable benefits to free market capitalism, there's also serious drawbacks. You tend to see the formation of mega corporations that can use economy of scale to secure and hold huge economic advantage.
Short of some breakup, or government intervention, what can be done? The system is designed to reward those who find the best market fit. The problem is, there's no brake pedal on their growth. They can absorb entire industries.
Short of some breakup, or government intervention, what can be done? The system is designed to reward those who find the best market fit. The problem is, there's no brake pedal on their growth. They can absorb entire industries.
This is interesting. Normally people say "innumerable" in a sentence like this, meaning "too many to count", but in this case there's a malapropism which literally reverses the meaning whilst keeping the sense of the original almost intact.
Hah, that is interesting. I think I make that mistake because I'm a software developer an enums are a thing so my brain mixes up innumerable with enumerable.
I guess it's perfectly cromulent in the sentence as well.
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This, in my opinion, is the largest role of government in a capitalist society. Capitalism is not sustainable without guard rails. By design, a company will always pass costs onto society if it can.
The government has an obligation to ensure negative economic costs are paid by the producers and consumers of goods and services.
An example of this would be Walmart for years relying almost exclusively on Medicaid benefits for their employees healthcare. Walmart is hardly the worst company in terms of passing economic costs on to others or future generations. But, the point is, that unless the government forces a company to pay the true costs of doing business it's always going to result in market distortions.
It's a design flaw of capitalism, which is actually easy to correct within an equitable political system. However, this is much more rare than it ought be.
The government has an obligation to ensure negative economic costs are paid by the producers and consumers of goods and services.
An example of this would be Walmart for years relying almost exclusively on Medicaid benefits for their employees healthcare. Walmart is hardly the worst company in terms of passing economic costs on to others or future generations. But, the point is, that unless the government forces a company to pay the true costs of doing business it's always going to result in market distortions.
It's a design flaw of capitalism, which is actually easy to correct within an equitable political system. However, this is much more rare than it ought be.
Those ghost towns today are still ghost towns. If the suburban massive parking lot megastore is the best the economy has to offer I'm not sure whether the economy should exist that way.
Also note - Amazon is doing the exact same thing to any remaining small retailers, squeezing suppliers like crazy and intensifying the brands selling exclusively from overseas (also destroying brand reputations as fakes are absolutely rife).
Also doesn't help that the middle class has dwindled and anyone caught below the "capital gains" economic apartheid line doesn't have money anymore so even if they wanted to buy local they couldn't.
Also note - Amazon is doing the exact same thing to any remaining small retailers, squeezing suppliers like crazy and intensifying the brands selling exclusively from overseas (also destroying brand reputations as fakes are absolutely rife).
Also doesn't help that the middle class has dwindled and anyone caught below the "capital gains" economic apartheid line doesn't have money anymore so even if they wanted to buy local they couldn't.
I wouldn't say Amazon is doing the exact same as Walmart. Walmart never attacked the long tail of retail, the specialist shops where people talk to the retailer for advice or guidance on purchases. Walmart never offered these products.
That's where Amazon hits, once a customer knows what to buy they can find it on Amazon.
That's where Amazon hits, once a customer knows what to buy they can find it on Amazon.
> Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
Not going to comment on the ethics/politics of it, but if people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum, then they have to accept that they have to pay a premium for it (i.e. shop at Whole Foods). You can't really say "I want to shop at the discount store but I also want only other wealthy people to be there".
If you accept that premise, then perhaps Walmart doesn't have an image problem, it's simply the fact that it's the cheapest place to shop in the neighborhood, so lower income folks will more likely shop there.
Not going to comment on the ethics/politics of it, but if people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum, then they have to accept that they have to pay a premium for it (i.e. shop at Whole Foods). You can't really say "I want to shop at the discount store but I also want only other wealthy people to be there".
If you accept that premise, then perhaps Walmart doesn't have an image problem, it's simply the fact that it's the cheapest place to shop in the neighborhood, so lower income folks will more likely shop there.
> if people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum, then they have to accept that they have to pay a premium for it (i.e. shop at Whole Foods).
I agree that Walmart can be extremely unpleasant compared to a regular grocery store for many reasons.
However, I’ve found Whole Foods staff to be extremely unwelcoming unless you seem like you fit in regardless of how much money you make.
Can definitely recommend wegmans for a more upscale shopping experience (Eg fancy cheeses, meats, selection of fish) without any of that “too cool for school” factor if you’re not in an “in” group.
Edit: Trader Joe’s is also pretty cool but it reminds me a bit of Aldi.
I agree that Walmart can be extremely unpleasant compared to a regular grocery store for many reasons.
However, I’ve found Whole Foods staff to be extremely unwelcoming unless you seem like you fit in regardless of how much money you make.
Can definitely recommend wegmans for a more upscale shopping experience (Eg fancy cheeses, meats, selection of fish) without any of that “too cool for school” factor if you’re not in an “in” group.
Edit: Trader Joe’s is also pretty cool but it reminds me a bit of Aldi.
Thats cuz apparently Trader Joe’s IS an Aldi’s!
Well, not originally, but they’re owned by Aldi Nord for a while now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's
Well, not originally, but they’re owned by Aldi Nord for a while now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's
Yes! I remember my first time at Whole Foods I asked where to find the Coca Cola and they were very rude about not carrying it.
I pay more to avoid WalMart. I'm not even an elitist, I've just noticed in my area, the greeters are rude. After maybe 3 bad experiences in a row, I've decided to never go to WalMart ever again and it's been over a year since I've shopped there.
So to be clear you are not an elitist, but you don't shop at the lower cost store, because the greeter was having a bad day and was not nice enough to you and should have known what class you are and should have shown more reverence?.
Repetitively running into grumpy people in a particular place, and choosing to avoid that, is hardly elitism. You're choosing to interpret my statements in the least charitable way possible.
I apologize for using your comment in an attempt to narrate a more pejorative point about individuals and brands using service and experience and price to passively class separate. Not that I have a problem targeting a market, just with not being forthright about it.
> you don't shop at the lower cost store, because the greeter was having a bad day and was not nice enough to you
People at Wal-mart have a bad day all the time. It's about the customer service. I have less anxiety knowing that if I do run into problems in the store, the staff would be more approachable.
> what class you are and should have shown more reverence
I didn't read the original comment this way. It sounds like you are projecting a bit
People at Wal-mart have a bad day all the time. It's about the customer service. I have less anxiety knowing that if I do run into problems in the store, the staff would be more approachable.
> what class you are and should have shown more reverence
I didn't read the original comment this way. It sounds like you are projecting a bit
I would also hope that customer service is awesome all the time, but saying the greeter was not nice enough is a pretty specific dog whistle.
I shop at the wally all the time, and I am just calling an elitist a spade free of any strawman you want to pile on.
I shop at the wally all the time, and I am just calling an elitist a spade free of any strawman you want to pile on.
> I would also hope that customer service is awesome all the time, but saying the greeter was not nice enough is a pretty specific dog whistle.
You're probably white and haven't experienced casual racism that exists at Wal-mart and less worldly venues
> dog whistle
> calling an elitist a spade free of any strawman you want to pile on.
Is it an elitist dog whistle when less affluent people also avoid Wal-mart on the sentiment that it's not actually a better value proposition such that customer service is a differentiating factor ? There is extreme poverty where people have to squeeze every penny out of their expenses even if it means trading their time for those pennies, but I'd hardly call a family in the middle ( below the middle class ) vying for Costco or a Target as having elitist preferences.
You're the one who sounds like an elitist white knight suggesting less affluent people have zero options and necessarily have to shop at Wal-mart. For example, Dollar Stores have great service, not actually cheaper, but is perceived as a cost saving to less affluent people.
You're probably white and haven't experienced casual racism that exists at Wal-mart and less worldly venues
> dog whistle
> calling an elitist a spade free of any strawman you want to pile on.
Is it an elitist dog whistle when less affluent people also avoid Wal-mart on the sentiment that it's not actually a better value proposition such that customer service is a differentiating factor ? There is extreme poverty where people have to squeeze every penny out of their expenses even if it means trading their time for those pennies, but I'd hardly call a family in the middle ( below the middle class ) vying for Costco or a Target as having elitist preferences.
You're the one who sounds like an elitist white knight suggesting less affluent people have zero options and necessarily have to shop at Wal-mart. For example, Dollar Stores have great service, not actually cheaper, but is perceived as a cost saving to less affluent people.
Please dial down the racism.
I love you. Fight the hate!
I love you. Fight the hate!
To be clear the actual wealthy people always shop at Walmart, because, ya know, they are wealthy because they don't waste money on more expensive groceries because the floors are nicer, and they probably don't mind being around other hard working people.
Only half tongue in cheek, and completely agreeing with you.
Only half tongue in cheek, and completely agreeing with you.
The difference I see with more upper class stores especially ones like Whole Foods is they tend to be in dense layouts where it is literally more time efficient to get your shopping done, and the stores are frequently placed on higher value property which is closer to the wealthy patrons. They tend to have a good selection of healthful foods maybe with pricy grass fed animal products with a higher ratio of omega3s, nitrate free cured meats, food for special diets like gluten-free, and all variety of things which are in a certain sense practical. Also generally the food of equal nutritional value tends to taste better, which makes it easier to stomach your conscientious diet.
If your wealth is such that food cost is a fairly negligible part of your expenses, USUALLY the Walmart will be further away located on less expensive real estate, roaming around the Walmart supercenter can literally take more time (both of these points are, to be fair eliminated by curbside pickup/delivery), the variety might be good but it's of foods that might not necessarily be worth the cost savings, the meat & produce might be alright but it's rarely going to be exceptional. It's not that any cook worth their salt can't go to Walmart and cook some fantastic food, it's that the real fancy store can be the path of least resistance.
I patronize both stores, tending to make runs to Walmart type stores for mostly non-perishables sold at superior prices. Honestly I feel more uncomfortable among wealthy patrons can poor ones. I can feel a miasma of snootiness around me in an upscale enough shop.
If your wealth is such that food cost is a fairly negligible part of your expenses, USUALLY the Walmart will be further away located on less expensive real estate, roaming around the Walmart supercenter can literally take more time (both of these points are, to be fair eliminated by curbside pickup/delivery), the variety might be good but it's of foods that might not necessarily be worth the cost savings, the meat & produce might be alright but it's rarely going to be exceptional. It's not that any cook worth their salt can't go to Walmart and cook some fantastic food, it's that the real fancy store can be the path of least resistance.
I patronize both stores, tending to make runs to Walmart type stores for mostly non-perishables sold at superior prices. Honestly I feel more uncomfortable among wealthy patrons can poor ones. I can feel a miasma of snootiness around me in an upscale enough shop.
What I've noticed with "upscale" stores like Whole Foods is that their "experience" is just totally different from WalMart (others have pointed this out in other threads).
For people beyond a certain income level, a few dollars in savings aren't as attractive as shopping in a place where people seem to be more "happy". Many of these stores also tend to have an attached gourmet cafe where you can grab a "healthy" bite post/pre shopping. The whole foods in Downtown Austin even has yoga classes (an other fitness activities) on its terrace.
For people beyond a certain income level, a few dollars in savings aren't as attractive as shopping in a place where people seem to be more "happy". Many of these stores also tend to have an attached gourmet cafe where you can grab a "healthy" bite post/pre shopping. The whole foods in Downtown Austin even has yoga classes (an other fitness activities) on its terrace.
Almost correct- they get the curbside dropoff and never leave their car. At least, this is what the high (~5MM) net worth family I know does.
The "wealthy people only shop frugally" is about as truthful as "millenials are poor because they only eat avocado toast."
> Working class shoppers.
Almost everyone in America is "working class". America no longer has a leisure class to speak of, if we ever had one. Looking at the most recent data - I forget where I saw it - but the wealthiest Americans also put in the most hours at work.
I know a lot of people have brainwashed themselves into thinking they're something they're not, but they're all wrong. If you have to go to work in the morning to maintain your lifestyle, even if you "work" for yourself, you're just a working class stiff like everyone else, you can just afford bigger shit.
If you can decide to just stop what you're doing and go attain spiritual enlightenment for the next 18 months, and literally nothing about your life, your children's lives, your grandchildren's lives, and your great-grandchildren's lives will change - you're not working class.
> Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
That doesn't make someone elitist, it just makes them an asshole.
Almost everyone in America is "working class". America no longer has a leisure class to speak of, if we ever had one. Looking at the most recent data - I forget where I saw it - but the wealthiest Americans also put in the most hours at work.
I know a lot of people have brainwashed themselves into thinking they're something they're not, but they're all wrong. If you have to go to work in the morning to maintain your lifestyle, even if you "work" for yourself, you're just a working class stiff like everyone else, you can just afford bigger shit.
If you can decide to just stop what you're doing and go attain spiritual enlightenment for the next 18 months, and literally nothing about your life, your children's lives, your grandchildren's lives, and your great-grandchildren's lives will change - you're not working class.
> Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
That doesn't make someone elitist, it just makes them an asshole.
“Working class”, despite what those words can mean separately, doesn’t mean “class of people with a job”.
It is a polite rephrasing of the now antiquated phrase: “lower class”.
In fact, the “working class” aren’t necessarily even employed.
It is a polite rephrasing of the now antiquated phrase: “lower class”.
In fact, the “working class” aren’t necessarily even employed.
/someone/ owns the boats in the marina. Usually someone very old for whom the economy worked out well for them. Bought a house worth a million dollars now on a near minimum wage job.
Tangentially related: one reason I try very hard not to shop at Walmart is because they try hard to make you feel like a criminal.
For instance, hanging from the ceiling smack-dab in the middle of some aisles are little TVs showing you that they're recording you. And when you walk down the aisle, the little TV senses you and lights up (it's remarkably bright) so that you _have_ to notice it.
And nine times out of ten I get hassled by the LPOs on my way out—demanding to see my receipt like they're busting some sort of birthday card stealing ring.
I do get that shoplifting is a big problem for them. The (small, middle-class) city I grew up in always has a cop in the parking lot of the local Walmart because so many people steal things. In high school, kids would grab booze or energy drinks and pass it through the bars in the garden section to their friends. Or just shove it in their backpack and run. And most of the "Do you recognize this shoplifter?" posts on FB or wherever by the local PD are from the Walmart.
But I can't help but think that they're driving away the type of people they _want_ to shop there. I'll gladly drive farther and pay more to shop in a pleasant environment.
For instance, hanging from the ceiling smack-dab in the middle of some aisles are little TVs showing you that they're recording you. And when you walk down the aisle, the little TV senses you and lights up (it's remarkably bright) so that you _have_ to notice it.
And nine times out of ten I get hassled by the LPOs on my way out—demanding to see my receipt like they're busting some sort of birthday card stealing ring.
I do get that shoplifting is a big problem for them. The (small, middle-class) city I grew up in always has a cop in the parking lot of the local Walmart because so many people steal things. In high school, kids would grab booze or energy drinks and pass it through the bars in the garden section to their friends. Or just shove it in their backpack and run. And most of the "Do you recognize this shoplifter?" posts on FB or wherever by the local PD are from the Walmart.
But I can't help but think that they're driving away the type of people they _want_ to shop there. I'll gladly drive farther and pay more to shop in a pleasant environment.
> The issues I see are: very drab color palette. Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
That is just the store you went to. The company crunches tons of data before they decide on store placement, and grouping like-shoppers by socioeconomic status is absolutely a goal. My hometown for example - one side of town has a Walmart that is very run down and exactly as you describe, while on the other side of town the Walmart looks like an upscale Target on the inside and an REI on the outside.
They tried the "upscale" brand online with Jet.com and it was an absolute failure. Amazon owns almost all of the non-price-first shoppers and Marc Lore doesn't know how to run a business without oversight.
That is just the store you went to. The company crunches tons of data before they decide on store placement, and grouping like-shoppers by socioeconomic status is absolutely a goal. My hometown for example - one side of town has a Walmart that is very run down and exactly as you describe, while on the other side of town the Walmart looks like an upscale Target on the inside and an REI on the outside.
They tried the "upscale" brand online with Jet.com and it was an absolute failure. Amazon owns almost all of the non-price-first shoppers and Marc Lore doesn't know how to run a business without oversight.
Jet was an acquisition though. I get they tried to keep some of its "upscale" shine but they eventually shuttered it for their own online offering.
It was an aquihire. "Jet" itself was an empty shell that the Walmart marketing folks could build a higher end brand inside.
The shuttering happened because the website was racking up seven-figure monthly Azure bills and bringing in five-figure revenue. Marc just couldn't figure out how to drive traffic without all his domains he sold to Amazon (soap.com, diapers.com, etc).
The shuttering happened because the website was racking up seven-figure monthly Azure bills and bringing in five-figure revenue. Marc just couldn't figure out how to drive traffic without all his domains he sold to Amazon (soap.com, diapers.com, etc).
> The issues I see are: [snip] Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
When I was very young, I liked talking to my dad about possible business ideas and how to make millions of dollars so I could buy a castle for our family to live in when I grew up (yeah, yeah, I was a kid). One evening, after proposing yet another crazy idea (I can't for the life of me remember what it was), my dad sat me down and asked me which kind of customer I thought Walmart would prefer to have: 1 customer that spends $100 or 100 customers that spend $1. I naively answered "The $100 customer, because it's a guaranteed higher amount!" He corrected me, saying that they'd prefer 100x $1 customers for two reasons: 1) there will always be a market for them and 2) it's less detrimental to lose a customer when each one pays $1 than it is to lose your only customer.
I don't think attracting the average Joe instead of the elitist is a bug, it's a feature.
When I was very young, I liked talking to my dad about possible business ideas and how to make millions of dollars so I could buy a castle for our family to live in when I grew up (yeah, yeah, I was a kid). One evening, after proposing yet another crazy idea (I can't for the life of me remember what it was), my dad sat me down and asked me which kind of customer I thought Walmart would prefer to have: 1 customer that spends $100 or 100 customers that spend $1. I naively answered "The $100 customer, because it's a guaranteed higher amount!" He corrected me, saying that they'd prefer 100x $1 customers for two reasons: 1) there will always be a market for them and 2) it's less detrimental to lose a customer when each one pays $1 than it is to lose your only customer.
I don't think attracting the average Joe instead of the elitist is a bug, it's a feature.
> Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
The thing about America is that you honestly cannot tell the social status of a person based on appearance alone. The middle class is large and we value frugality and humility.
I think of this as a collective tendency: rich or poor, when you go to Wal-Mart you just wear whatever you're wearing.
I don't know if you have ever heard of Chris Arnade but he is an ex Wall Streeter who wrote about the "McDonald's Test," which probably lines up with Wal-Mart too.
"Eventually I came up with what I call the McDonald’s test. The broad thesis of my book is that our society sorts people into what I call the front row and the back row – the privileged class to which I used to belong, who are financially secure and live in safe neighborhoods with good schools and public services – and everybody else. The test is to ask a person: how do you view McDonald’s? In my experience, the answer usually reveals whether someone belongs to the front or back row."
https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/social-justice/econ...
The thing about America is that you honestly cannot tell the social status of a person based on appearance alone. The middle class is large and we value frugality and humility.
I think of this as a collective tendency: rich or poor, when you go to Wal-Mart you just wear whatever you're wearing.
I don't know if you have ever heard of Chris Arnade but he is an ex Wall Streeter who wrote about the "McDonald's Test," which probably lines up with Wal-Mart too.
"Eventually I came up with what I call the McDonald’s test. The broad thesis of my book is that our society sorts people into what I call the front row and the back row – the privileged class to which I used to belong, who are financially secure and live in safe neighborhoods with good schools and public services – and everybody else. The test is to ask a person: how do you view McDonald’s? In my experience, the answer usually reveals whether someone belongs to the front or back row."
https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/social-justice/econ...
Fantastic article. Thank you.
WalMart definitely has an image issue for me. In my town (very low crime), they're the only store with clear theft prevention in place.
You walk in through a one-way turnstile, they have a permanent police presence, clear loss prevention people randomly throughout the store, and someone doing loss prevention just after check out.
I'm sure other stores in our area have loss prevention, but they hide it much better. WalMart is the only store where I feel like I'm being scrutinized for wanting to buy the products they sell.
You walk in through a one-way turnstile, they have a permanent police presence, clear loss prevention people randomly throughout the store, and someone doing loss prevention just after check out.
I'm sure other stores in our area have loss prevention, but they hide it much better. WalMart is the only store where I feel like I'm being scrutinized for wanting to buy the products they sell.
If your target market is people who want the lowest price, image issues tend not to matter that much (other than perception of being the lowest price option). You were probably never their first choice.
> Working class shoppers
That doesn't bother me. I'm not so elitist that I need to always be with people who are me same class as me.
What's more important is that the people catering to me make a living wage. Or, to put it differently, are comfortable with what they are paid without relying on government assistance?
The only kind of stores that I avoid because of the customers are liquor stores where half the drivers in the parking lot are drunk.
That doesn't bother me. I'm not so elitist that I need to always be with people who are me same class as me.
What's more important is that the people catering to me make a living wage. Or, to put it differently, are comfortable with what they are paid without relying on government assistance?
The only kind of stores that I avoid because of the customers are liquor stores where half the drivers in the parking lot are drunk.
Wal*Mart, contrary to popular belief is paying $15 in many locations (as good as other chains).
they dont hire full time though, and hours can vary dramatically per week. if you get 12 hours one week and 32 the next, that $15 an hour doesn't help that much. The big problem is we dont do full time work in most retail positions any more apart from the manager and maybe keyholders.
They’re paying a mean of $15 an hour. That’s quite different from a minimum of $15 an hour.
Walmart jobs in my fairly HCOL area still start at $12 an hour.
Walmart jobs in my fairly HCOL area still start at $12 an hour.
I just saw a banner outside mine in a very low cost of living area advertising starting at $14 an hour.
The funny part is Walmart is paying better wages here than any competitor in retail space.
> Their stock assortment isn’t bad compared to the competition. In fact, aside from Whole Foods on the organic/bio side of things, they measure up very well and better compared to their competition.
Where I live (a decent sized metro), their stock collection beats all other retail stores in the area. They'll often have SKUs for products I can't find anywhere else. As an example, I have a spray carpet cleaner from what is likely the best selling brand in the country. When it runs out, I want to get a solution refill, not buy a whole new spray. Walmart is the only general purpose store in the city that carries it. All other stores carry just the spray version, which costs about double. Target used to be my go-to place for this kind of stuff, but even they've stopped carrying it.
Their fresh produce sucks, but for everything else, they often have good selection and quality. And with good prices. A few other examples:
- OTC Medicine/supplements: If you're trying to get one of the well known "alternative" brands (e.g. vegetarian tablets), their prices are much cheaper - perhaps half of that in any other local store.
- Perfumes: It's the same perfume as you'd get at Macy's, Nordstrom, etc, but usually at 20-50% off their prices. Reason? They source these perfumes from the Asian market. Perfume manufacturers cannot sell in Asia at the prices they charge in the US, so they sell it cheaper there (again, from all my research, it's the same perfume - not a lower quality one). So Walmart simply "imports" them back in from Asia.
I rarely shop at Wal-mart. It's not near me, and I go there only when I simply can't find what I need at another local store. It certainly has its down sides and legitimate criticisms, but I've begun to appreciate the positives to it.
Where I live (a decent sized metro), their stock collection beats all other retail stores in the area. They'll often have SKUs for products I can't find anywhere else. As an example, I have a spray carpet cleaner from what is likely the best selling brand in the country. When it runs out, I want to get a solution refill, not buy a whole new spray. Walmart is the only general purpose store in the city that carries it. All other stores carry just the spray version, which costs about double. Target used to be my go-to place for this kind of stuff, but even they've stopped carrying it.
Their fresh produce sucks, but for everything else, they often have good selection and quality. And with good prices. A few other examples:
- OTC Medicine/supplements: If you're trying to get one of the well known "alternative" brands (e.g. vegetarian tablets), their prices are much cheaper - perhaps half of that in any other local store.
- Perfumes: It's the same perfume as you'd get at Macy's, Nordstrom, etc, but usually at 20-50% off their prices. Reason? They source these perfumes from the Asian market. Perfume manufacturers cannot sell in Asia at the prices they charge in the US, so they sell it cheaper there (again, from all my research, it's the same perfume - not a lower quality one). So Walmart simply "imports" them back in from Asia.
I rarely shop at Wal-mart. It's not near me, and I go there only when I simply can't find what I need at another local store. It certainly has its down sides and legitimate criticisms, but I've begun to appreciate the positives to it.
maybe i'm weird but i actually prefer the vibe at walmart to the pseudo upscale feel of stores like target. at walmart you know what youre getting, theres no pretense that you are there for any other reason than cheap crap. people of all economic backgrounds are all there just to get the best deals.
I don't know what's "pseudo" about cleaner floors and surfaces and better-organized merchandise. It's not just about decor. The Wal-Marts I have been to are a filthy mess, and it's clear no one cares.
The one thing I like about Target is that it's quiet, they don't play music there and there's rarely talking over loudspeakers etc.
Thing is the vibe part I see but quality wise, they’re on par with others. It’s not Dollar store crap.
I agree. Target is much more annoying; just as bottom-of-the-barrel, but they depend on pretending they're not.
Their interior could use a better design. However, the vast majority of people are working class. Their problems aren't shoppers' opinions of other shoppers. An upscale version might attract other customers of a higher socioeconomic status, but there's lots of competition in that market as well, and it's not a core competency of Walmart, making it a longshot bet.
Based on what the article says from the memo, a lot if their issues stem from changing shopping behaviors and a desire for more convenience-- such as curbside pickup-- that Walmart has had difficulty scaling up fast enough to meet demand.
Based on what the article says from the memo, a lot if their issues stem from changing shopping behaviors and a desire for more convenience-- such as curbside pickup-- that Walmart has had difficulty scaling up fast enough to meet demand.
It's not the best choice, it's Spacer's Choice!
When I visited the US, I went to Walmart just to see how bad it was. I visited the "sick and dead fish" aisle. Incomprehensible how that's even allowed, but ok.
This is more subjective, but in every country I go to, I visit a "cheap supermarket chain store" and look at the people working there. Do they look happy? Do they look healthy? Do they look tired? Switzerland was amazing on that front.
This is more subjective, but in every country I go to, I visit a "cheap supermarket chain store" and look at the people working there. Do they look happy? Do they look healthy? Do they look tired? Switzerland was amazing on that front.
>They could likely address this by having a second more upscale brand.
That's kinda what Sam's Club is, though Sam's is competing against Costco
That's kinda what Sam's Club is, though Sam's is competing against Costco
Sam's is more upscale than Wal-Mart, but in my experience it is very much the "Wal-Mart of warehouse stores" in that it feels less nice than Costco in the same area. I'm sure it varies, that's just based on the ones I've been to.
Yeah, maybe it varies, but the local Sam's has gone way downhill over the last couple decades (I don't think income-demographics have changed much in the area over the same time-span, which makes that really odd) along with the three nearest Wal-Marts. Sam's is now firmly in the same relation to CostCo as Wal-Mart is to Target: basically the same thing, except everything about it is anywhere from a little to a lot worse (except, sometimes, the prices)
It is literally the Walmart of warehouse stores.
Sam Walton is the originator of both Sam's Club and Wal(ton)mart.
Sam's competes more with stores like BJ's and Brandsmart than Costco, which is really in a league of its own.
Sam Walton is the originator of both Sam's Club and Wal(ton)mart.
Sam's competes more with stores like BJ's and Brandsmart than Costco, which is really in a league of its own.
The parking lot at the costco near me is insane. Everytime I went there, I felt like I was going to get hit. Sure enough, an oldy was killed in the parking log shortly after I stopped going.
I wouldn’t say Sam’s Club is upscale…at all
Costco is like Sam’s Club, but without the tattoos.
Let me restate that: upscale and hip targeted at middle and upper middle/aspirational in urban and proximate suburban enviros.
Upscale urban areas won't let Walmart even try to build something. Target worked really hard pitching their upscale "City Target" sub-brand to get San Francisco to let them in.
Walmart is experimenting with something they call “Walmart Neighborhood Market” but I think they’d have done better to leave the Walmart name off it.
People who don’t like Walmart won’t try it and people who do like Walmart will be pissed it’s not a Walmart just a grocery store.
People who don’t like Walmart won’t try it and people who do like Walmart will be pissed it’s not a Walmart just a grocery store.
I had one right by my college apartment and was really happy with it. Very clean and always had what I needed, but not 'everything.' If they rebranded & incorporated them into suburban neighborhoods with a focus on walkability it could be a smart move to capture the wealthier 'conscious' shopper.
I like how you say ""Walmart is experimenting with something they call “Walmart Neighborhood Market” and they have had these for over a decade. I come from the area around the home office and they make the stores run quite a bit better there. The further away the store is the more likely there is less innovation or management issues.
When I moved to the east cost I could clearly see certain loss prevention measures that made me not buy products.
It's not an image problem, shopping there is a terrible experience. The stores are always a mess and the employees are unhelpful. There always seems to be long lines at the front end. They do have a good selection of products, but I avoid shopping there whenever I can because it's so unpleasant.
At least for me, Walmart is just a vehicle for the Waltons to extract wealth from the country. I suppose if Walmart divested themselves from the Waltons and adopted some sort of pro-employee policies I might shop there more frequently.
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You only believe these things are a problem because you don’t understand positioning (in marketing terms). They are successful because of these qualities, not in spite of them.
This comment is just so wildly delusional. Aristotle was right when he said that most envy and elitism is directed at other members of one's own class.
I went to a Walmart Supercenter this week to try to buy clothes and groceries. No carts or hand baskets available. One employee reprimanding another employee right in front of customers. No bags for produce. Underwear was in a locked cabinet. I pressed the button but nobody came to help. Grumpy attendant at the self checkout.
It's no wonder that people who can afford to shop elsewhere do.
It's no wonder that people who can afford to shop elsewhere do.
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>Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
Elitist or not, wouldn't this advice simply move them from one stratum to another?
Elitist or not, wouldn't this advice simply move them from one stratum to another?
That’s why OP proposed segmenting into several store brands (that would cater to different stratums).
Walmart is also one of the few stores that interrogate you on the way out as to what you purchased. Just not a good look.
Best Buy checks receipts, Costco checks receipts.
Best Buy is the most confusing of these as the receipt checker is stationed about 3 feet from the last register by the door watching you get rung up and pay.
Best Buy is the most confusing of these as the receipt checker is stationed about 3 feet from the last register by the door watching you get rung up and pay.
Costco, Sams Club and the like have you sign a contract for membership that requires you to show the receipt upon exit. Walmart, Target, etc. are governed by the state, county, and city laws. Most states allow you to ignore them and keep walking unless the theft prevention is activated.
Best Buy also like to hire actual cops for their security. It's a nice part time and the employee discount was good. Did make my brother breathe a bit easier when he worked there.
It's not that I disagree but it's so depressingly cynical to suggest Walmart make its business less efficient for the sake of allowing for social stratification.
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> Working class shoppers. Sure, it’s elitist, but people like shopping alongside people in their own stratum.
Eh, I think the problem isn't even "lower class" it's "I don't want to shop at a store with a meth lab"[1]
How does walmart begin to fix problems like that? IDK. Even Kmart back in the day didn't have that sort of image problem. Heck, other brands like Kroger or albertsons/safeway don't have that problem. It's a pretty unique problem to the walmart brand.
Oddly enough, Asda (walmart's UK brand name) doesn't have the same image problem. It really is a problem unique to the US walmart brand.
[1] https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/03/meth-labs-in-wal...
Eh, I think the problem isn't even "lower class" it's "I don't want to shop at a store with a meth lab"[1]
How does walmart begin to fix problems like that? IDK. Even Kmart back in the day didn't have that sort of image problem. Heck, other brands like Kroger or albertsons/safeway don't have that problem. It's a pretty unique problem to the walmart brand.
Oddly enough, Asda (walmart's UK brand name) doesn't have the same image problem. It really is a problem unique to the US walmart brand.
[1] https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/03/meth-labs-in-wal...
I wonder if/how Asda got out of the "countryside" style of management of Walmart
In other countries their micromanagement made them fail. Like in Germany, where it's the place where it crashed and burned the worse.
In other countries their micromanagement made them fail. Like in Germany, where it's the place where it crashed and burned the worse.
Instacart is a threat to WalMart? That's a surprise. I had no idea Instacart was that big. I think of them as a gig-economy delivery service that delivers only 80% of what you order.
The whole business of sending people to do shopping in retail stores seems a temporary business until the grocery industry gets fulfillment figured out. It's like a throwback to the early days of Internet commerce, when the web site didn't talk to the inventory system, so many orders could not be fulfilled properly.
The whole business of sending people to do shopping in retail stores seems a temporary business until the grocery industry gets fulfillment figured out. It's like a throwback to the early days of Internet commerce, when the web site didn't talk to the inventory system, so many orders could not be fulfilled properly.
Probably the best thing about COVID is now all stores here do curbside pickup. I don't understand why it took COVID to make companies realize that "hey, a large part of your clientele don't want to wander your aisles."
>I don't understand why it took COVID to make companies realize that "hey, a large part of your clientele don't want to wander your aisles."
Because making shoppers wander the aisles leads them to buy more things than they intended to. There's a reason best-selling items are always placed at eye level.
Because making shoppers wander the aisles leads them to buy more things than they intended to. There's a reason best-selling items are always placed at eye level.
>Because making shoppers wander the aisles leads them to buy more things than they intended to. There's a reason best-selling items are always placed at eye level.
And the dairy or automotive sections are nowhere near the entrance. They want you to impulse buy some cookies or a $5 DVD on your way to get milk or an oil change.
And the dairy or automotive sections are nowhere near the entrance. They want you to impulse buy some cookies or a $5 DVD on your way to get milk or an oil change.
Ehhh I like to peruse the apps for new stuff I've never tried before. It's easier to impulse shop in an app than it is to bounce back and forth between aisles.
For example you might see a novel ingredient in the ethnic food section of the app, go look up a recipe that includes it, add all the rest of the ingredients all without putting on pants.
For example you might see a novel ingredient in the ethnic food section of the app, go look up a recipe that includes it, add all the rest of the ingredients all without putting on pants.
Not only that, there is real money made in in-store product placement (end caps) etc.
Less foot traffic, less money.
Less foot traffic, less money.
What prevents that from happening in a web-based experience?
They try. For example Instacart shows you "recommended" items at multiple places in the shopping flow. However I think there is some sort of limit here because it feels more explicit. If I search for something it is obvious when you are putting results that don't match in my way. In the store it is easy not to realize that the things that you want are intentionally spread out.
Mostly, limited visual field. Screens aren't able to lure you in through peripheral vision
Funnily enough, that's actually how grocery stores used to operate: people would bring a list of items they wanted to the store, and the employees would go get them. Piggly Wiggly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggly_Wiggly) popularized the concept of self-serve grocery stores that we know today. I recall that people preferred this because they could pick their preferred cuts of meat, or veggies, or what have you.
Grocery stores operate with razor thin margins of 2%. Pickup is more labor intensive and hastily scaled up COVID-19 pickup runs at a -5% profit. It’s better than no sales but is inherently a luxury service in a market with customers who are not willing to pay extra. Even Whole Foods had to find an exit as mainstream and discount grocers started grabbing organic market share.
Yeah, I worked at Meijer when they introduced their curbside pickup. It was a challenge getting that profitable. They had to have extra coolers for meats and other products that needed to be kept cool until the customer arrived.
They ended up just raising prices on all products purchased through Shipt (instacart) or through curbside. Most people don’t notice that a pack of batteries is 5.49 in store versus 5.99 in the app.
Some big ticket items, like Xboxes or other digital items, where customers generally know the price, were not increased. But in general it worked out well and became profitable.
They ended up just raising prices on all products purchased through Shipt (instacart) or through curbside. Most people don’t notice that a pack of batteries is 5.49 in store versus 5.99 in the app.
Some big ticket items, like Xboxes or other digital items, where customers generally know the price, were not increased. But in general it worked out well and became profitable.
Used to do retail tech work.
Instacart collapses brand identities as consumers don’t care where the food comes from. This is very top of mind of whatever reason for retail/grocery execs.
Instacart collapses brand identities as consumers don’t care where the food comes from. This is very top of mind of whatever reason for retail/grocery execs.
I avoid Walmart because of their absolutely terrible treatment of their employees, the fact the have failed to provide decent wages or benefits for their workers, drove a race to the bottom in retail and did this almost entirely to the benefit of five children who were lucky to be born with the last name Walton and are now the richest family in America. The corporation is seared in my mind as the ugliest side of American corporate greed with a total disregard of social responsibility.
Only very recently did Walmart even attempt to bring up wages, and it's not because they felt some accountability for decimating small towns and family owned businesses, but because they were becoming a dinosaur and suddenly had to compete for workers who would rather work someplace that paid more, even if only marginally and exploited them a little less brazenly.
Only very recently did Walmart even attempt to bring up wages, and it's not because they felt some accountability for decimating small towns and family owned businesses, but because they were becoming a dinosaur and suddenly had to compete for workers who would rather work someplace that paid more, even if only marginally and exploited them a little less brazenly.
To your point, Dan Price recently posted some related stats and perspective:
> Minimum wage
> Costco: $16
> Walmart: $11
>
> Average pay
> Costco: $24
> Walmart: $15
>
> Employees on food stamps (subsidized by you)
> Costco: Virtually none
> Walmart: More than any other company
>
> Founder net worth
> Costco: not a billionaire
> Walmart: $220+ billion; up $30 billion in the pandemic
>
> Both companies have similar business models and charge the same low prices. One decided to treat its employees like humans and forgo enormous profits, and the other one took the opposite track.
>
> Business is about choices.
> Minimum wage
> Costco: $16
> Walmart: $11
>
> Average pay
> Costco: $24
> Walmart: $15
>
> Employees on food stamps (subsidized by you)
> Costco: Virtually none
> Walmart: More than any other company
>
> Founder net worth
> Costco: not a billionaire
> Walmart: $220+ billion; up $30 billion in the pandemic
>
> Both companies have similar business models and charge the same low prices. One decided to treat its employees like humans and forgo enormous profits, and the other one took the opposite track.
>
> Business is about choices.
Costco’s customers are the top 3 socioeconomic quintiles, Walmart’s customers are the bottom 3 (or middle 3).
Either way, Costco’s customers are richer, and they have a different business model. They are objectively a good employer, but a lot of that has to do with their customer not being extremely price sensitive and being able to afford to buy large quantities, which also results in less loss due to theft.
You can find the richer parts of any town by searching for Costco.
As for founder net worth, it’s not very meaningful if a founder owns it or others own it in 401k. Divide the Walmart founder net worth by employees and it still would not give them a meaningful improvement in wages for long. They’re simply a low margin business selling to customers who cannot afford to spend extra.
Either way, Costco’s customers are richer, and they have a different business model. They are objectively a good employer, but a lot of that has to do with their customer not being extremely price sensitive and being able to afford to buy large quantities, which also results in less loss due to theft.
You can find the richer parts of any town by searching for Costco.
As for founder net worth, it’s not very meaningful if a founder owns it or others own it in 401k. Divide the Walmart founder net worth by employees and it still would not give them a meaningful improvement in wages for long. They’re simply a low margin business selling to customers who cannot afford to spend extra.
Those numbers are pretty stark. But the missing part of the equation here is the customer. How much value has been created for them by driving prices down? I'm not suggesting it's a good thing to underpay employees. I'm only saying let's get a full view of the landscape to be informed...
When I visit other countries, I always visit the Cheapest supermarkets, just to see the people working there. Zwitserland was amazing: happy, healthy people who clearly loved their job. The US much less so.
This kind of thinking is why grocery chains have struggled despite having the deck stacked totally in their favour.
Online retail, much like offline retail, is about physical infrastructure. You still need warehouses with all the product, you still need fulfilment, all online changes is the balance of those factors. The core assets don't change.
I can see how they are losing on branding but losing to Instacart tells you that management lost touch with customers and sat on their laurels.
That being said, I have no doubt that they will vanquish Instacart. And they will likely pressure aspects of Amazon's business too. It isn't actually possible to compete with WMT because they such a dense network already (outside the US, AMZN is going to struggle even more, they weren't aggressive enough in building fulfilment centres and they tried to build fewer, larger centres, Amazon will begin exiting some of these markets in the next five years and sell out to local operators with exiting fulfilment networks, an alternative would be they cede control over fulfilment to local operators and just operate the front-end website...either way, their position outside the US is likely unsustainable).
Online retail, much like offline retail, is about physical infrastructure. You still need warehouses with all the product, you still need fulfilment, all online changes is the balance of those factors. The core assets don't change.
I can see how they are losing on branding but losing to Instacart tells you that management lost touch with customers and sat on their laurels.
That being said, I have no doubt that they will vanquish Instacart. And they will likely pressure aspects of Amazon's business too. It isn't actually possible to compete with WMT because they such a dense network already (outside the US, AMZN is going to struggle even more, they weren't aggressive enough in building fulfilment centres and they tried to build fewer, larger centres, Amazon will begin exiting some of these markets in the next five years and sell out to local operators with exiting fulfilment networks, an alternative would be they cede control over fulfilment to local operators and just operate the front-end website...either way, their position outside the US is likely unsustainable).
> Online retail, much like offline retail, is about physical infrastructure. You still need warehouses with all the product, you still need fulfilment, all online changes is the balance of those factors. The core assets don't change.
Which is why it is so weird when offline entities adding online lose out over and over to online only. They already have most of the infrastructure and their infrastructure is being paid for by two separate revenue streams (existing in store customers and new online customers). It just shows how often and how prevalent it is for these companies to rest on their laurels and siphon off every available penny of revenue for shareholder and executive profit, rather actually investing real time, effort, and talent into the online space. Which is why online companies can start from such a disadvantaged position and still surpass.
Which is why it is so weird when offline entities adding online lose out over and over to online only. They already have most of the infrastructure and their infrastructure is being paid for by two separate revenue streams (existing in store customers and new online customers). It just shows how often and how prevalent it is for these companies to rest on their laurels and siphon off every available penny of revenue for shareholder and executive profit, rather actually investing real time, effort, and talent into the online space. Which is why online companies can start from such a disadvantaged position and still surpass.
I worked at a Barne's & Noble book store in college right as Amazon took off. I think BN's model for doing online was pretty common, which was that they set it up as a separate business that they made compete with their retail outlets. If you went into a store that didn't have the book you were looking for, the last thing the store wanted you to do was to go home and order it online from the BN website. They pushed you to get it shipped to the store, the. Wait for a phone call to tell you it arrived so you could come back and buy it. Then the store got the revenue towards it's sales goals.
One of many problems was that most people never actually came back to get the book when it arrived, and salespeople either didn't mention or actively discouraged buying on the web site, so the sale was lost completely. On the other side, their online wasn't integrated into their brick & mortar locations until way too late to claw back from Amazon. I'm not sure when they finally added the ability to see if a local store had a copy of the book you wanted, but it took too long because of the internal competition, and you still pretty much needed to call the store and make sure they had a copy because you could easily waste a trip if the inventory wasn't up to date or no one could find the book.
Doing a bad job of adding online to their business ended up making the entire experience worse.
Many retail chains seem to have done the same thing in the early days if trying to have an online presence. Heck, you still can't reserve or pre-buy a game at a physical using their web site, which says it's in stock. And you'll often still waste a trip if you trust the website and don't call ahead.
One of many problems was that most people never actually came back to get the book when it arrived, and salespeople either didn't mention or actively discouraged buying on the web site, so the sale was lost completely. On the other side, their online wasn't integrated into their brick & mortar locations until way too late to claw back from Amazon. I'm not sure when they finally added the ability to see if a local store had a copy of the book you wanted, but it took too long because of the internal competition, and you still pretty much needed to call the store and make sure they had a copy because you could easily waste a trip if the inventory wasn't up to date or no one could find the book.
Doing a bad job of adding online to their business ended up making the entire experience worse.
Many retail chains seem to have done the same thing in the early days if trying to have an online presence. Heck, you still can't reserve or pre-buy a game at a physical using their web site, which says it's in stock. And you'll often still waste a trip if you trust the website and don't call ahead.
they set it up as a separate business that they made compete with their retail outlets.
Sadly, this is very common in retail, and one of the things that is destroying brick-and-mortar.
My wife works in this space and tells me that a lot of retailers, from department stores to fancy boutiques, do this.
The worst part is that since the online store is generally located in the warehouse, it gets first dibs on stock, while the stores have to do without. Some of the retail stores she works with will lose out on $20k/day because they can't get stock, but online always has it. The managers are training the customers to check online first, cannibalizing their own employees and stores. Then they send the daily reports to the stores with notes like, "I see that online did 44% better than your store in your zone today." Well, no shit. Online has stock and the boutiques don't.
Sometimes the boutiques do a little fighting back, and sort of "pool" their stock. Meaning that if a store doesn't have something a customer wants, the employees of that store will call another store they reciprocate with and try to have the item shipped to the customer from that store for free. The just-above-minimum-wage shopgirl ends up eating the shipping just so she can make her unrealistic sales goal and stay employed for another month.
Sadly, this is very common in retail, and one of the things that is destroying brick-and-mortar.
My wife works in this space and tells me that a lot of retailers, from department stores to fancy boutiques, do this.
The worst part is that since the online store is generally located in the warehouse, it gets first dibs on stock, while the stores have to do without. Some of the retail stores she works with will lose out on $20k/day because they can't get stock, but online always has it. The managers are training the customers to check online first, cannibalizing their own employees and stores. Then they send the daily reports to the stores with notes like, "I see that online did 44% better than your store in your zone today." Well, no shit. Online has stock and the boutiques don't.
Sometimes the boutiques do a little fighting back, and sort of "pool" their stock. Meaning that if a store doesn't have something a customer wants, the employees of that store will call another store they reciprocate with and try to have the item shipped to the customer from that store for free. The just-above-minimum-wage shopgirl ends up eating the shipping just so she can make her unrealistic sales goal and stay employed for another month.
Ikea is the example I often cite.
I am in the UK. Many of their locations are adjacent to motorways, they literally have a warehouse in the store, and all they need to add is a fulfilment network (which, btw, they already have just not large enough to meet demand). Admittedly, the stuff they carry is pretty heavy/expensive...but they are 99% of the way there.
Instead, you go on their website, a lot of the stuff on there doesn't work properly, and delivery times are a month plus. It is deliberate.
Wayfair is dropshipping stuff from China, and managing to compete with them...how? It makes no sense. Ikea have a position that no competitor could actually replicate without losing billions of pounds, and they are getting beaten by a company which doesn't manufacture goods, owns one or two warehouses, and doesn't fulfil orders...how? Literally, Wayfair just have a bunch of websites (now consolidated) with good SEO...and Ikea are just handing them market share.
And yes, "executive profit" is the key point. Executive comp is set by comp committees who have no clue, and benchmark off whatever they the company is already doing/last year's numbers. Why do execs care if the company blows up in five years through malinvestment? They will have cashed out their options by then and will be lighting their cigars with fifty pound notes. Imo, executive comp structure is 95% to do with why this has happened (in my experience, exec comp in physical retail is structured very poorly across the board, it incentivizes poor ROIC growth).
I am in the UK. Many of their locations are adjacent to motorways, they literally have a warehouse in the store, and all they need to add is a fulfilment network (which, btw, they already have just not large enough to meet demand). Admittedly, the stuff they carry is pretty heavy/expensive...but they are 99% of the way there.
Instead, you go on their website, a lot of the stuff on there doesn't work properly, and delivery times are a month plus. It is deliberate.
Wayfair is dropshipping stuff from China, and managing to compete with them...how? It makes no sense. Ikea have a position that no competitor could actually replicate without losing billions of pounds, and they are getting beaten by a company which doesn't manufacture goods, owns one or two warehouses, and doesn't fulfil orders...how? Literally, Wayfair just have a bunch of websites (now consolidated) with good SEO...and Ikea are just handing them market share.
And yes, "executive profit" is the key point. Executive comp is set by comp committees who have no clue, and benchmark off whatever they the company is already doing/last year's numbers. Why do execs care if the company blows up in five years through malinvestment? They will have cashed out their options by then and will be lighting their cigars with fifty pound notes. Imo, executive comp structure is 95% to do with why this has happened (in my experience, exec comp in physical retail is structured very poorly across the board, it incentivizes poor ROIC growth).
I suspect you could be right about executive profits, but do you have any specific indication that this is what ails IKEA?
Nope, the comment about Ikea is unrelated. Ikea is privately-owned, and my guess is that they just don't want to do online...some privately-owned companies are like that.
The point about exec comp is what I have seen at other publicly-listed physical retailers (i.e. dead format, competitors eating their lunch but they keep opening stores because the comp committee wants EPS growth).
The point about exec comp is what I have seen at other publicly-listed physical retailers (i.e. dead format, competitors eating their lunch but they keep opening stores because the comp committee wants EPS growth).
The biggest thing keeping me from shopping at Walmart is their anti-competitive and predatory behavior and the way they treat their employees and vendors.
Nothing else really matters to me regarding Walmart. There's no subscription service that would get me to shop at Walmart more than I do today (which is zero). There's no competitor that could decline in such a way that I would shop at Walmart. I know many in my social circles feel the same way.
Nothing else really matters to me regarding Walmart. There's no subscription service that would get me to shop at Walmart more than I do today (which is zero). There's no competitor that could decline in such a way that I would shop at Walmart. I know many in my social circles feel the same way.
There are no ethical global multinational companies, sorry to burst your bubble. Every other giant retailer is doing the same to employees, vendors, etc.
Walmart really started the race to the bottom, killed countless good paying retail jobs (many union), so I choose to hold them accountable, even if it's irrational at this point given their competition (Amazon) is arguably just as bad or worse.
Costco treats their employees very well comparitvely.
What makes you think I live in a bubble regarding large retail companies?
They're all terrible; as a customer I actually love the way they abuse their vendors - Walmart is not going to be happy a lot of returns on your product, they'll just find another vendor. It's like the anti-Amazon, everything I buy from Walmart works well. If both Amazon and Walmart are slime, I'm going to Walmart.
They are anti consumer on returns lately.
I bought a Keurig that broke on the 3rd day and they wouldn’t take it back because I bought the extra warranty they sell on them.
Warranty company wouldn’t do anything because it was within the store refund timeframe.
I’ve not had that problem with Amazon.
I bought a Keurig that broke on the 3rd day and they wouldn’t take it back because I bought the extra warranty they sell on them.
Warranty company wouldn’t do anything because it was within the store refund timeframe.
I’ve not had that problem with Amazon.
>I bought a Keurig that broke on the 3rd day and they wouldn’t take it back because I bought the extra warranty they sell on them.
They wouldn't take something back within the return period because you bought an extra warranty? What am I missing here? How did they justify it?
They wouldn't take something back within the return period because you bought an extra warranty? What am I missing here? How did they justify it?
The warranty they up sell at checkout isn’t through Walmart which I didn’t know at the time but of course learned real quick.
The store manager eventually told me they would not accept the return on anything that had the extended warranty which is conveniently right on the receipt.
So this is the second time trying to return it when I wait to get a manager so I went to my car and called the warranty place again (Asserion) and got an agent on the line. Told the agent I called the day before, followed the advice to come back and get a manager and it didn’t work and she agreed to stay on the line while I walked back in the store to get the manager again.
She was awesome and a total boss. I put her on speaker, told the employee at the returns desk she’d speak to me and the manager and we waited five more minutes on him.
When he came back again I told the manager I had the warranty company on the phone refusing to service the contract and she rattled off all the info he needed to hear and what Asserions policies were and that he needed to do the manufacturer return on his side. 10/10 great experience with her.
Then he said go get one off the shelf and take the swap.
The store manager eventually told me they would not accept the return on anything that had the extended warranty which is conveniently right on the receipt.
So this is the second time trying to return it when I wait to get a manager so I went to my car and called the warranty place again (Asserion) and got an agent on the line. Told the agent I called the day before, followed the advice to come back and get a manager and it didn’t work and she agreed to stay on the line while I walked back in the store to get the manager again.
She was awesome and a total boss. I put her on speaker, told the employee at the returns desk she’d speak to me and the manager and we waited five more minutes on him.
When he came back again I told the manager I had the warranty company on the phone refusing to service the contract and she rattled off all the info he needed to hear and what Asserions policies were and that he needed to do the manufacturer return on his side. 10/10 great experience with her.
Then he said go get one off the shelf and take the swap.
Sounds like a rogue manager, but if it's policy it needs to be public so that people stop buying the extended warranty.
Even though you're over with it now, I would escalate this to walmart corporate and see if they have this as official policy or not. It seems to me like the manager tried to commit fraud unless he can point to where that's official policy or not.
Either way I wouldn't buy an asserion/asurion warranty for any amount of money.
Even though you're over with it now, I would escalate this to walmart corporate and see if they have this as official policy or not. It seems to me like the manager tried to commit fraud unless he can point to where that's official policy or not.
Either way I wouldn't buy an asserion/asurion warranty for any amount of money.
I don't shop there because I take pride in the things I own and prefer quality. They sell specially cheapened versions of popular brands (e.g. Tide) and their store is filled with low-quality products.
It's sad because Walmart Labs has been one of the few groups from a big company putting money behind Clojure/script, which I would like to see succeed.
It's sad because Walmart Labs has been one of the few groups from a big company putting money behind Clojure/script, which I would like to see succeed.
I’ve never heard about cheapened brand products like Tide.
Do you have more information?
Do you have more information?
Here’s an article that touches on it: https://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart-product-quality-durabil...
Basically, Walmart is responsible for so much of some products’ sales, they dictate the price to the manufacturer. Manufacturers respond by producing special versions of products to meet their price demands.
Product quality is sort of a hobby/passion for me. Most popular brands these days prioritize price wayyy over quality. Even without Walmart, finding well-made products is difficult, inside a Walmart, I don’t even bother looking anymore.
Basically, Walmart is responsible for so much of some products’ sales, they dictate the price to the manufacturer. Manufacturers respond by producing special versions of products to meet their price demands.
Product quality is sort of a hobby/passion for me. Most popular brands these days prioritize price wayyy over quality. Even without Walmart, finding well-made products is difficult, inside a Walmart, I don’t even bother looking anymore.
Where do you shop that isn't roughly as bad on at least one if those factors?
The same places people shopped before large internet retails became the norm - locally owned and operated places.
I am very fortunate that I have the opportunity and means to vote this way with my wallet; many people don't.
I am very fortunate that I have the opportunity and means to vote this way with my wallet; many people don't.
According to memo, Walmrt has competitors. who knew
Look how well the stock is doing and has done over the past 4 or so years. to say they they are facing challenges or are struggling is overly-dramatic.
Online shopping will never replace Walmart completely. Rather both will grow together.They both serve a role. A lot of ppl do not want to use amazon or don't have good internet access or cannot receive mail easily.
Look how well the stock is doing and has done over the past 4 or so years. to say they they are facing challenges or are struggling is overly-dramatic.
Online shopping will never replace Walmart completely. Rather both will grow together.They both serve a role. A lot of ppl do not want to use amazon or don't have good internet access or cannot receive mail easily.
It’s great to see they are brutally honest with themselves, I didn’t expect anything else.
Walmart’s problem is with urban and close urban centers. Their image in these areas is in the dumpster. I don’t know how they can improve it either. The one thing that could help is to throw their color palette out and pick a vibrant one. Their stores look really dull.
Walmart’s problem is with urban and close urban centers. Their image in these areas is in the dumpster. I don’t know how they can improve it either. The one thing that could help is to throw their color palette out and pick a vibrant one. Their stores look really dull.
I wonder what happened with Walmart’s partnership with TikTok and if they’ve given up on their social media/e-commerce ambitions:
https://www.vox.com/recode/21448460/walmart-tiktok-amazon-de...
They were very eager to beat Amazon on bringing the QVC style online video commerce that’s super popular in China to the U.S., but I haven’t seen much about it since. I guess like convincing teens to buy clothing that their favorite influencer was wearing from Walmart.com was too tall an order.
https://www.vox.com/recode/21448460/walmart-tiktok-amazon-de...
They were very eager to beat Amazon on bringing the QVC style online video commerce that’s super popular in China to the U.S., but I haven’t seen much about it since. I guess like convincing teens to buy clothing that their favorite influencer was wearing from Walmart.com was too tall an order.
I don’t shop at Walmart for three reasons:
1. They always have boxes of un-stocked products stacked in the aisles, making it hard to navigate my shopping cart through the store.
2. Their food selection isn’t as good as other local retailers.
3. The Walmart near me locks the door near the handicap parking after 10:00 pm, even though they are open all night. I’ve been forced on multiple occasions to walk all the way to the other end of the store to get out and then walk all the way back to my car again, which is painful for me and why I have a handicap tag in the first place.
Two of those issues seem fairly easy to fix, yet they never do.
1. They always have boxes of un-stocked products stacked in the aisles, making it hard to navigate my shopping cart through the store.
2. Their food selection isn’t as good as other local retailers.
3. The Walmart near me locks the door near the handicap parking after 10:00 pm, even though they are open all night. I’ve been forced on multiple occasions to walk all the way to the other end of the store to get out and then walk all the way back to my car again, which is painful for me and why I have a handicap tag in the first place.
Two of those issues seem fairly easy to fix, yet they never do.
I think that over time the things these companies need to be successful, vertical integration across concepts like web, mobile, e-commerce, logistics, shipping, personal shopper, curbside pickup, etc etc... Is all going to be fragmented and broken up into it's component pieces. Instacart started the trend in a big way and Shopify is also part of this "disaggregation" framework...
I've used both Instacart and Walmart delivery because I don't have a car and live ~3miles from the nearest supermarket.
In my experience, Instacart has worked very well: the only issues (2-hour delivery window, tip for delivery) are upfront, but I rarely get messed up / late / bad orders. The website is also great.
The only time I used Walmart, my delivery was rescheduled to the next day, something which never happened with 50+ Instacart deliveries. And the website sucks.
In my experience, Instacart has worked very well: the only issues (2-hour delivery window, tip for delivery) are upfront, but I rarely get messed up / late / bad orders. The website is also great.
The only time I used Walmart, my delivery was rescheduled to the next day, something which never happened with 50+ Instacart deliveries. And the website sucks.
That probably comes down to location and competence+availability of staff. I've had basically equal results from the three different grocery stores I've ordered from in my current location, one of which is Walmart, one is a Kroger subsidiary, and one is a local higher-end chain. But when I was in SF, I had terrible results with Instacart, and resorted to shopping in person.
Honestly I still wish I could shop in person, it's just too far :)
Not trying to be rude but maybe you didn't tip enough? The default tip is 5% but I usually do ~20%.
Not trying to be rude but maybe you didn't tip enough? The default tip is 5% but I usually do ~20%.
I usually tipped delivery services 15-20%, more if it was raining, but shouldn't tips be hidden and only given in aggregate? Also I wish a fair wage was just baked into the price and tipping went away.
This has been the story for the last 8 years at minimum. There's nothing new here. They have still found a way to survive and grow during this time.
If they're worried about Instacart, that might be why they deliver things I order on Sunday that afternoon even when I qualify for free shipping by ordering over $45 (or some amount).
I don't expect it for a couple days but if it's in the local store they have random people bag and deliver it within hours. Even on a Sunday.
I don't expect it for a couple days but if it's in the local store they have random people bag and deliver it within hours. Even on a Sunday.
most people, outside of the covid event and the HN bubble prefer buying things in person. My issue with walmart has been poor quality items or common items out of stock. I remember a few years ago going to a walmart supercenter and they were out of stock of nutcrackers. This was not during the holiday season but come on people eat walnuts or almonds year round.
Additionally walmart could do better with fewer more professional employees and with an app that would help shoppers find merchandise in store without needing to ask an employee.
Additionally walmart could do better with fewer more professional employees and with an app that would help shoppers find merchandise in store without needing to ask an employee.
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I wish walmart would buy barnes and noble, let me add a book to clear the free shipping bar
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Anybody have link to the memo?
Still annoyed that Target and Walmart refuse to accept Apple Pay so that they can continue to collect identifying data on all the customers that pass through their doors.
Target does accept Apple Pay and Google Pay.
https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Acc...
https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Acc...
I want someone, *anyone*, to knock Amazon down. So here’s some free advice to Walmart.
Consider Walmart’s weaknesses and how other companies address them.
- manually stocked shelves
Consider Costco’s model of placing pallets of product on the floor. Most Walmart’s have the vertical space to go up. Obviously redesigning their store experience is expensive and difficult with a stagnating industry and a lot of staff that don’t like tech or change. But these are not hard problems. For large items like boxes of soda and cereal, this is simple, just add some flimsy cardboard shelves holding the rows together. For beauty products and small items like that keep the system and layout the same to keep things simple, but start working with manufacturers on palletized displays that satisfy their in store image requirements.
- poor buy online pickup at store experience, both online and in store.
Make it easier to shop a particular local Walmart for pickup and only the stock in that store. The same goes for shopping online for shipping and only those products sold by Walmart. Having three different experiences is good for consumers, but make it easier for the customer to specify which one they want.
- the notorious Walmart experience, and the notorious people of Walmart
This is a tough one that I don’t have a good answer for besides look to target and Trader Joe’s for inspiration while hiring sociologists and the advertising company behind fidget spinners.
- online purchase, in store pickup experience
In years past it made sense to force customers to walk through the entire store to do some annoying task. These days? I pay more, sometimes a lot, to not have to enter a store, or speak to underpaid and overworked staff there. Punch some new doors on the side of the the building, put in a few reefer fridges, some more shelves, and have the in house developers crank out a contactless pickup web app. Include
- innovate
For things I buy all the time, I’m not time sensitive. Hook customers on something addictively convenient like weekly grocery delivery of their staples with Walmart’s plus subscription. Stuff like milk, eggs, bread, cheese, deli meat, etc. also, if I know I’m having a big party in two weeks and don’t want to deal with the groceries I’d love a reliable way to 60 fresh avocados, 10 cases of beer, 20 bags of chips, and 30 pounds of meat without going to multiple stores. Right now the only way I can do this is by ringing the manager of the store and placing a special order. It shouldn’t even be that hard to logistically handle the ebbs and flow of demand. Problem is can someone build such a system profitably? If Walmart can’t, I doubt anyone could.
Consider Walmart’s weaknesses and how other companies address them.
- manually stocked shelves
Consider Costco’s model of placing pallets of product on the floor. Most Walmart’s have the vertical space to go up. Obviously redesigning their store experience is expensive and difficult with a stagnating industry and a lot of staff that don’t like tech or change. But these are not hard problems. For large items like boxes of soda and cereal, this is simple, just add some flimsy cardboard shelves holding the rows together. For beauty products and small items like that keep the system and layout the same to keep things simple, but start working with manufacturers on palletized displays that satisfy their in store image requirements.
- poor buy online pickup at store experience, both online and in store.
Make it easier to shop a particular local Walmart for pickup and only the stock in that store. The same goes for shopping online for shipping and only those products sold by Walmart. Having three different experiences is good for consumers, but make it easier for the customer to specify which one they want.
- the notorious Walmart experience, and the notorious people of Walmart
This is a tough one that I don’t have a good answer for besides look to target and Trader Joe’s for inspiration while hiring sociologists and the advertising company behind fidget spinners.
- online purchase, in store pickup experience
In years past it made sense to force customers to walk through the entire store to do some annoying task. These days? I pay more, sometimes a lot, to not have to enter a store, or speak to underpaid and overworked staff there. Punch some new doors on the side of the the building, put in a few reefer fridges, some more shelves, and have the in house developers crank out a contactless pickup web app. Include
- innovate
For things I buy all the time, I’m not time sensitive. Hook customers on something addictively convenient like weekly grocery delivery of their staples with Walmart’s plus subscription. Stuff like milk, eggs, bread, cheese, deli meat, etc. also, if I know I’m having a big party in two weeks and don’t want to deal with the groceries I’d love a reliable way to 60 fresh avocados, 10 cases of beer, 20 bags of chips, and 30 pounds of meat without going to multiple stores. Right now the only way I can do this is by ringing the manager of the store and placing a special order. It shouldn’t even be that hard to logistically handle the ebbs and flow of demand. Problem is can someone build such a system profitably? If Walmart can’t, I doubt anyone could.
Walmart has Sams Club.
Have you used the Walmart grocery pickup? It is seriously great, with its own app flow both on mobile and browser. They have been rolling this for years, even in rural markets. It is most of what you have described, complete with store redesigns on the side of the building with covered parking for pick up. Maybe it is regional, but is crushing the southeast.
Getting rid of poor people in a Walmart is a crazy statement, that you should probably edit out.
I agree on the easier website experience for Walmart only as vendor for delivery, but they do have a walmart instock section on the website, which allows you to browse up to the minute stocks and order them for pickup or delivery same day or next.
Your party example is exactly what Walmart Grocery Pickup is.
Have you used the Walmart grocery pickup? It is seriously great, with its own app flow both on mobile and browser. They have been rolling this for years, even in rural markets. It is most of what you have described, complete with store redesigns on the side of the building with covered parking for pick up. Maybe it is regional, but is crushing the southeast.
Getting rid of poor people in a Walmart is a crazy statement, that you should probably edit out.
I agree on the easier website experience for Walmart only as vendor for delivery, but they do have a walmart instock section on the website, which allows you to browse up to the minute stocks and order them for pickup or delivery same day or next.
Your party example is exactly what Walmart Grocery Pickup is.
For the people of Walmart, the problem is Walmart makes a ton of its money by vacuuming up all the low/no income customers that would have been served in smaller numbers by convenience type stores. If they go upscale like Target or Trader Joes, they lose that customer base and move into competition directly with those types of stores. Same with the layout. Sure, you or I will pay more for a store laid out for actual convenience and fully staffed decently paid cashiers that will get me in and out quickly, but most of their customer base wont.
It reminds me of Mcd’s problem. They can’t go upscale because people that will pay for it already like places like Chipotle or Chick fil a more and Mcd’s is so deeply branded as the classic cheap fast food. And their current customer base is heavily weighted at lower income busy people looking for the ubiquity, price, and mentally easy process.
It reminds me of Mcd’s problem. They can’t go upscale because people that will pay for it already like places like Chipotle or Chick fil a more and Mcd’s is so deeply branded as the classic cheap fast food. And their current customer base is heavily weighted at lower income busy people looking for the ubiquity, price, and mentally easy process.
I didn't realize Chick Fil A was more upscale. Though the one s in my area are food court versions-- are the full physical locations markedly nicer inside than McDonald's? I think their employees do get paid more and/or better benefits though.
I wouldn't say the physical location is materially nicer, but the food experience is. I don't think I've ever been served stale food at Chick Fil A, and at McDonald's there's a very good chance on almost every visit. The employees also seem much happier and more helpful in my anecdotal experience.
>In years past it made sense to force customers to walk through the entire store to do some annoying task. These days? I pay more, sometimes a lot, to not have to enter a store, or speak to underpaid and overworked staff there. Punch some new doors on the side of the the building, put in a few reefer fridges, some more shelves, and have the in house developers crank out a contactless pickup web app. Include
A lot of walmarts now actually have this automated pickup machine [1]. It's honestly kinda cool. The grocery pickup they'll bring out to your car for free too, unfortunately sometimes I've had to wait 10 minutes though, so it's not as breezy as I'd prefer.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pgd-LzzXc
A lot of walmarts now actually have this automated pickup machine [1]. It's honestly kinda cool. The grocery pickup they'll bring out to your car for free too, unfortunately sometimes I've had to wait 10 minutes though, so it's not as breezy as I'd prefer.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pgd-LzzXc
Costco stocks 4,000 products. Walmart stocks 100,000.
A Walmart with things palleted like Costco would be roughly twenty times the size.
It would be amazing but terrifying.
A Walmart with things palleted like Costco would be roughly twenty times the size.
It would be amazing but terrifying.
Combine all this with a plan for Walmart to be fully employee-owned. Then millennials will be lining up not to shop there but to work there.
While this is perhaps impractical in the case of WalMart, I think you don't compete with Amazon at what they are best at. You have to change the game.
While this is perhaps impractical in the case of WalMart, I think you don't compete with Amazon at what they are best at. You have to change the game.
Walmart can do anything to tacle this threat as they are now creating their own ecosystem of devices like laptop, smartphone, smart tvs and will sell in their stores to maximize profit...
Reference - Walmart's first Android TVs will be officially released next week - https://techplanet.today/post/walmarts-first-android-tvs-wil...
Reference - Walmart's first Android TVs will be officially released next week - https://techplanet.today/post/walmarts-first-android-tvs-wil...
The business could easily have gone the way of Sears.