The Chinese content farms behind Factory TikTok(restofworld.org)
restofworld.org
The Chinese content farms behind Factory TikTok
https://restofworld.org/2021/the-chinese-content-farms-behind-factory-tiktok/
18 comments
If you have ever done blue collar work in the US, you would see there is a big range in industrial labor conditions. You have filthy, dirty, hot, dangerous plants and clean, modern, safe plants along with everything in between. China is an even bigger country with many more industrial plants with a wide range.
There are enough good plants to fill infinite propaganda reels. The best propaganda is true. It's not mistaken if it's accurate video of real facilities. Americans generally are at least 10-15 years out of date with their impressions of urban Chinese quality of life and working conditions because our news coverage of China is very poor quality.
Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, by the way, it just has lots of facilities on the mainland as well, and to show I'm not a shill Taiwan is an independent country, Mao was a bad man, etc.
There are enough good plants to fill infinite propaganda reels. The best propaganda is true. It's not mistaken if it's accurate video of real facilities. Americans generally are at least 10-15 years out of date with their impressions of urban Chinese quality of life and working conditions because our news coverage of China is very poor quality.
Foxconn is a Taiwanese company, by the way, it just has lots of facilities on the mainland as well, and to show I'm not a shill Taiwan is an independent country, Mao was a bad man, etc.
Industrial work in USA has been indeed cheaper than in China for a few years, and not just labourers, and materials.
Now, dozens more countries are jumping onto the space in the market that China is retreating from. Unfortunately, US is not one of them.
It's easier to open a factory for me even in a country like Bangladesh (which stands on ∞ place in ease of doing business index,) than in the most business friendly states in US, despite nominally better tax rates in the US, and cheaper non-labour inputs.
Now, dozens more countries are jumping onto the space in the market that China is retreating from. Unfortunately, US is not one of them.
It's easier to open a factory for me even in a country like Bangladesh (which stands on ∞ place in ease of doing business index,) than in the most business friendly states in US, despite nominally better tax rates in the US, and cheaper non-labour inputs.
The US also has a culture that considers hand-work to be distasteful and even evil, whereas mind-work as something to be aspired to. It's probably more prestigious to be on the dole and to be in education to your mid-30s than it is to drive a truck.
It's a trope in every developed country, but I've got a bit of a different impression. Manual work seems better considered and paid in the US than in Continental Europe where I live.
Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, blue collars are very poorly considered in China and the social gap between classes is greater than in egalitarian Western nations.
Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, blue collars are very poorly considered in China and the social gap between classes is greater than in egalitarian Western nations.
>The US also has a culture that considers hand-work to be distasteful and even evil, whereas mind-work as something to be aspired to.
It varies. Your statement is definitely true in most of the places the demographics on HN mostly live. But nobody is trying to build manufacturing facilities in those places.
It varies. Your statement is definitely true in most of the places the demographics on HN mostly live. But nobody is trying to build manufacturing facilities in those places.
It's gotten a lot better since then, in China, things move and change a lot faster than it is in the West.
Right now the problem is shortage of workers, the factories simply can't find enough people to fill the slots, meanwhile there are too many college graduates that can't find jobs (and refuse to work in factories).
Right now the problem is shortage of workers, the factories simply can't find enough people to fill the slots, meanwhile there are too many college graduates that can't find jobs (and refuse to work in factories).
Curated social media is extremely effective for mass manipulation (that's why funding it with ads is so lucrative.)
None of this should be surprising.
None of this should be surprising.
I have some on the ground experience with Chinese manufacturing and what I saw was fine - it was relatively low-paying transitional work people do for a few years when they're young - like working at McDonalds used to be here - before they move onto a better job. The conditions aren't great by our standards but it's a much better working environment (and better paying one) than the alternatives available in the region.
US concerns have largely been overblown outrage clickbait. At the peak of the hysteria Mike Daisey did an interview on NPR's This American Life based on a one-man show ("The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs") in which he claimed to have personal knowledge of how bad the conditions are at Apple factories. I saw his show and it seemed clear to me Mike Daisey was lying; it eventually did turn out he had invented and/or exaggerated most of the details and NPR had to retract the episode:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/03/16/148761812...
Regarding Foxconn suicides: It's hard for us to wrap our heads around the sheer scale of Foxconn - the fact that one company in one area had more workers than the entire population of Wyoming throws off our intuitions! Even at its peak the suicide rate at Foxconn appears to have been lower than the suicide rate for China in general, much lower than the suicide rate for Chinese college students (the closest age group we have data on) and even less than the suicide rate for American college students. So there was nothing unusual in having that number of suicides given how many people lived and worked there. Did they put up fencing around one building? Yes, but we do that here too whenever one building or bridge or cliff becomes an attractive area for suicides. For instance, San Francisco right now is spending over 200 million dollars on an improved suicide barrier for the Golden Gate Bridge:
https://www.marinij.com/2020/08/26/golden-gate-bridge-suicid...
There is indeed a range of factory work. Some is unpleasant but most of it is quite pleasant. In particular electronics assembly tends to be on the more-pleasant end of the scale because electronics assembly is sensitive work. Our traditional idea of "sweatshops" - hot, dirty, sweaty, poorly-ventilated, poorly-lit work - was associated with a particular era of garment manufacturing. Electronics assembly is absolutely nothing like that and the reason isn't for the benefit of the workers, it's for the benefit of the product. Electronics assembly is done in rooms that are clean and well-lit and well-ventilated and temperature-controlled because if they weren't, the product wouldn't work. Circuit boards hate dust and moisture; companies get the best yield rate in terms of working product at the end of the line when the workers are comfortable and clean and there's no dust and they can see clearly what they are doing and they have the right tools available for the job.
So far as I could tell, the workers on the line were happy and comfortable.
Caveat: My personal up-close experience is limited to a couple medium-sized firms in Guangdong: IDT (Integrated Display Technology) and GSL (Group Sense Limited). IDT is the Chinese company that assembled LCD-containing products for Sharper Image under the house brand "Oregon Scientific" in the late 1990s-early 2000s. I worked with these companies as the QA representative of Pocket Science aka Pocket.com while they were building PocketMail products. In that capacity I talked to the assemblers and their managers and sometimes worked beside them on the assembly line.
PocketMail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PocketMail
GSL: http://www.gsl.com.hk/eng/e_about.asp
IDT: http://www.idthk.com/
US concerns have largely been overblown outrage clickbait. At the peak of the hysteria Mike Daisey did an interview on NPR's This American Life based on a one-man show ("The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs") in which he claimed to have personal knowledge of how bad the conditions are at Apple factories. I saw his show and it seemed clear to me Mike Daisey was lying; it eventually did turn out he had invented and/or exaggerated most of the details and NPR had to retract the episode:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/03/16/148761812...
Regarding Foxconn suicides: It's hard for us to wrap our heads around the sheer scale of Foxconn - the fact that one company in one area had more workers than the entire population of Wyoming throws off our intuitions! Even at its peak the suicide rate at Foxconn appears to have been lower than the suicide rate for China in general, much lower than the suicide rate for Chinese college students (the closest age group we have data on) and even less than the suicide rate for American college students. So there was nothing unusual in having that number of suicides given how many people lived and worked there. Did they put up fencing around one building? Yes, but we do that here too whenever one building or bridge or cliff becomes an attractive area for suicides. For instance, San Francisco right now is spending over 200 million dollars on an improved suicide barrier for the Golden Gate Bridge:
https://www.marinij.com/2020/08/26/golden-gate-bridge-suicid...
There is indeed a range of factory work. Some is unpleasant but most of it is quite pleasant. In particular electronics assembly tends to be on the more-pleasant end of the scale because electronics assembly is sensitive work. Our traditional idea of "sweatshops" - hot, dirty, sweaty, poorly-ventilated, poorly-lit work - was associated with a particular era of garment manufacturing. Electronics assembly is absolutely nothing like that and the reason isn't for the benefit of the workers, it's for the benefit of the product. Electronics assembly is done in rooms that are clean and well-lit and well-ventilated and temperature-controlled because if they weren't, the product wouldn't work. Circuit boards hate dust and moisture; companies get the best yield rate in terms of working product at the end of the line when the workers are comfortable and clean and there's no dust and they can see clearly what they are doing and they have the right tools available for the job.
So far as I could tell, the workers on the line were happy and comfortable.
Caveat: My personal up-close experience is limited to a couple medium-sized firms in Guangdong: IDT (Integrated Display Technology) and GSL (Group Sense Limited). IDT is the Chinese company that assembled LCD-containing products for Sharper Image under the house brand "Oregon Scientific" in the late 1990s-early 2000s. I worked with these companies as the QA representative of Pocket Science aka Pocket.com while they were building PocketMail products. In that capacity I talked to the assemblers and their managers and sometimes worked beside them on the assembly line.
PocketMail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PocketMail
GSL: http://www.gsl.com.hk/eng/e_about.asp
IDT: http://www.idthk.com/
This seems like a new iteration of the Canadian series How It's Made (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_It%27s_Made), in which the camera shows how products are made, always highlighting the quality of the materials and the care taken to produce them, but never showing the externalities. While most of the time the product names were not explicitly shown, it was still possible to see some labels and find it out.
There's a long running kid's show called Die Sendung mit der Maus(The show with the Mouse)[1] in German public television that's been doing that since the 70s.
For instance here's how gummy bears are made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_yYNT8QYY
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Sendung_mit_der_Maus
For instance here's how gummy bears are made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_yYNT8QYY
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Sendung_mit_der_Maus
My first thought also went to “how it’s made”.
I think it’s obvious that they are allowed access on the condition of speaking kindly of the given factory.
But it is still a fascinating program and new episodes are regularly released on official and unofficial YouTube channels.
I highly recommend searching for it!
I think it’s obvious that they are allowed access on the condition of speaking kindly of the given factory.
But it is still a fascinating program and new episodes are regularly released on official and unofficial YouTube channels.
I highly recommend searching for it!
I absolutely love How It's Made. Apparently, given the popularity of these videos, lots of people enjoy peering behind the curtain as well.
This isn't quite as nefarious as I had guessed it would be from the headline:
"Factory TikTok, in other words, isn’t about workers documenting their own labor, but is primarily a marketing scheme devised by their employers, many of whom may be under increasing financial pressure."
I seem to remember reading something about Facebook being part of the reason TikTok succeeded while Vine failed? Facebook didn't see TikTok as a competitor like it viewed Vine, and promoted it more on Facebook? And now TikTok is a giant. ( I hope I have that right. )
"Factory TikTok, in other words, isn’t about workers documenting their own labor, but is primarily a marketing scheme devised by their employers, many of whom may be under increasing financial pressure."
I seem to remember reading something about Facebook being part of the reason TikTok succeeded while Vine failed? Facebook didn't see TikTok as a competitor like it viewed Vine, and promoted it more on Facebook? And now TikTok is a giant. ( I hope I have that right. )
there was a bottomless pit of money to pay for advertising on facebook to get it up to critical mass, I wonder where that might have come from?
Have you ever heard of a term called venture capital? It's pretty neat and you should definitely learn more about it, especially considering the site you are posting on.
Investors recognizing untapped potential?
I think TikTok is also significantly more proficient than Vine (was) at predicting whether any given individual will engage with any given video.
As an American, I certainly default to assuming that Chinese factories have terrible working conditions (see Foxconn suicides [0]). I guess it's not clear to me if these TikToks should disabuse us of our mistaken assumptions of Chinese factories, or if they're pure PR fiction with attractive actors smiling as they "work".
Anyone with lots of on the ground experience with Chinese manufacturing care to chime in? Is there a range of factory work, from terrible to pleasant? Or is it all terrible and these videos are just to try to convince Western shoppers that those stories about poor working conditions are nothing to worry about?
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides