Myopia: A Modern yet Reversible Disease(gettingstronger.org)
gettingstronger.org
Myopia: A Modern yet Reversible Disease
https://gettingstronger.org/2014/08/myopia-a-modern-yet-reversible-disease/
43 comments
If we're going to cherry pick studies, according to one line in this more recent study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26032395/) from the same website:
> "The regression analysis showed that myopia progression significantly decreased with increasing amount of undercorrection (r (2) = 0.02, P = 0.02) in all children"
Just because you have sources doesn't mean its true. Look at how healthy diets have changed in the past years based on scientific studies. If you wanted to be healthy according to 2005 science then by all means eat your low-fat high-carb diet.
> "The regression analysis showed that myopia progression significantly decreased with increasing amount of undercorrection (r (2) = 0.02, P = 0.02) in all children"
Just because you have sources doesn't mean its true. Look at how healthy diets have changed in the past years based on scientific studies. If you wanted to be healthy according to 2005 science then by all means eat your low-fat high-carb diet.
The two studies I linked were randomized controlled trials. The study you linked was not.
Does anyone have actual experience reversing myopia? During the pandemic my eye sight worsened pretty quickly and I have glasses for the first time ever (presumably the worsening was already there but accelerated by being on my computer more during lockdown, working longer hours, getting out of the house less).
My prescription is really slight (I think like -.5 or -.75) and I was really curious if this was reversible at all, but I'm skeptical of claims that it is.
My prescription is really slight (I think like -.5 or -.75) and I was really curious if this was reversible at all, but I'm skeptical of claims that it is.
I did, but I was going when I did so. Spent more time outdoor looking far, then close, then far, etc. I've become aware of the duration of the transition in focus and it now serves as a warning side. Whenever it seems to take longer to focus on far-away things I know I need to do some more exercice. Went from needing glasses (which I declined) and seeing everything blurry to having a great vision I can't complain about.
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I would advise getting your blood sugar levels checked, high blood sugar has a negative effect on eyesight, and given that during pandemic many people have cut exercise and may have started snacking more. There is a strong correlation between type 2 diabetes and vision problems.
This is sound advice, our ophthalmologist said the same: glucose level can change the thickness of your cornea (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17964654/), and that can even improve your vision. A sudden change in vision, for the worse or better, merits checking your glucose level.
> During the pandemic my eye sight worsened pretty quickly and I have glasses for the first time ever
You are not alone[1].
> Does anyone have actual experience reversing myopia?
Not me but I have heard from multiple independent contacts telling me that they reversed slight myopia through yoga at different period of time. And every time I hear that I try to search for scientific evidence and come back empty handed.
[1] https://needgap.com/problems/251-eye-strain-due-to-lockdown-... (Disclaimer: My platform)
You are not alone[1].
> Does anyone have actual experience reversing myopia?
Not me but I have heard from multiple independent contacts telling me that they reversed slight myopia through yoga at different period of time. And every time I hear that I try to search for scientific evidence and come back empty handed.
[1] https://needgap.com/problems/251-eye-strain-due-to-lockdown-... (Disclaimer: My platform)
Weirdly, if you're over 40 and have been reading for a while and then look up and notice everything looks blurry in the distance, you can tighten up every muscle in your body for about ten seconds and when you relax much of your distance vision will be recovered. Let's call in the poor man's reversal.
Anecdote, as a teen, I was diagnosed as having myopia (mostly on one eye) and got glasses. I refused to wear them most of the time, during that time I spent more time outdoor, looking further away and also develop an habit to stare at points far away whenever I'm thinking.
Since I'm 25, whenever I do an eye test, they tell me that I have a very small amount of myopia on one eye but it's very small and I don't need glasses.
Interestingly, when I talked to an eye doctor recently, he told me that they no longer try to push glasses so much when there's a small vision issue.
Since I'm 25, whenever I do an eye test, they tell me that I have a very small amount of myopia on one eye but it's very small and I don't need glasses.
Interestingly, when I talked to an eye doctor recently, he told me that they no longer try to push glasses so much when there's a small vision issue.
Another anecdote: I developed myopia in high school and college, where it became progressively more difficult to read what was written on blackboards and transparency projectors. I resolutely refused to get glasses. By the time I got my first pair of glasses at 25, my prescription was around -3.25 in both eyes.
Wow, I wonder how you got by. I'm useless when I had -2 or -3 myopia: couldn't recognize people's faces, couldn't read signs. With -3 I think your computer screen even looks blurry.
With significant difficulty! I was very bought into the idea that glasses make your vision worse. By the time I got my glasses, I couldn't read the menus that fast food restaurants post overhead or enjoy board games with friends (requires reading small text on the playing pieces).
Well... my eyes have gotten progressively worse (more myopic) since I started wearing glasses regularly to work about 5 years ago. This was in my early 30s. Before that I didn't wear glasses most of the time, but I still had some myopia that could be irritating at times. I could still, eg. drive comfortably without glasses. I can no longer do that.
It's something that has felt wrong to me, and worried me a lot (you know, since I use my eyes for a lot of things that are important to me). I will definitely look further into this and try the techniques discussed here.
It's something that has felt wrong to me, and worried me a lot (you know, since I use my eyes for a lot of things that are important to me). I will definitely look further into this and try the techniques discussed here.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, but I don't think you should attribute the progression of myopia to your glasses. It's likely it would have happened regardless, correlation not causation.
Perhaps I misunderstood Slide 16:
Myopia progresses in two stages: (1) near work induces lens spasm, causing pseudo-myopia; (2) use of minus lenses temporarily improves distance vision, but leads to eye elongation and axial myopia. The result of elongation is a need to prescribe stronger minus lenses, in a vicious cycle of ever stronger lenses.
I haven't watched the video yet, but this sounds like my experience.
Myopia progresses in two stages: (1) near work induces lens spasm, causing pseudo-myopia; (2) use of minus lenses temporarily improves distance vision, but leads to eye elongation and axial myopia. The result of elongation is a need to prescribe stronger minus lenses, in a vicious cycle of ever stronger lenses.
I haven't watched the video yet, but this sounds like my experience.
Yeah, it's possibly true but I guess I'm just skeptical that glasses make it worse. It just seems like it would be easy to confuse the symptoms (eye elongation and axial myopia) as being caused by the glasses rather than just by whatever factors originally caused the myopia (or if it was genetic/age driven).
From a brief search it seems that studies show that glasses don't make eyesight worse.
From a brief search it seems that studies show that glasses don't make eyesight worse.
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Another no-glasses technique I've heard works is Orthokeratology, specially shaped contacts that you wear at night which reshape the lens, and the effects last through the next day. I find contacts incredibly uncomfortable to wear during the day, largely because it's very dry where I live, but I suspect I could wear them comfortably at night.
Ortho-K is fairly expensive ($1-3K from memory), and fairly rare. I could only find a couple places that do it in my entire state.
Ortho-K is fairly expensive ($1-3K from memory), and fairly rare. I could only find a couple places that do it in my entire state.
I use those (DreamLite)and they are getting more and more common in the Netherlands.
Every contact lens specialist shop sells them. They around EUR 500 a year including cleaning fluids and check-ups.
Be sure to get checks regularly and practice extra good eye hygiene, because they do have a higher risk of infections, also eye doctors do not recommend them.
Biggest drawback I experience are coronas around bright lights at night, but you do get used to them. I can conformably drive a car at night, because the sight is sharp. The extend also varies from person to person.
If you can tolerate the lenses with your eyes open, you can also already wear them in the evening if you need perfect sight in low light.
On topic: you cannot permanently reverse myopia, but it gets better when you get older for some people.
Ortho-K lenses can however be used by children to stop myopia from getting worse.
Be sure to get checks regularly and practice extra good eye hygiene, because they do have a higher risk of infections, also eye doctors do not recommend them.
Biggest drawback I experience are coronas around bright lights at night, but you do get used to them. I can conformably drive a car at night, because the sight is sharp. The extend also varies from person to person.
If you can tolerate the lenses with your eyes open, you can also already wear them in the evening if you need perfect sight in low light.
On topic: you cannot permanently reverse myopia, but it gets better when you get older for some people.
Ortho-K lenses can however be used by children to stop myopia from getting worse.
Reasonable points.
I'm also very skeptical when doctors say you have to constantly wear glasses. It's more logical that with glasses our eyes are becoming even more lazy.
All this myopia pandemic looks like a natural consequence of our modern lifestyle – looking at screens most of the time. So it's more like an adaptation. But I don't think it's possible to reverse it without throwing away all the screens.
I'm also very skeptical when doctors say you have to constantly wear glasses. It's more logical that with glasses our eyes are becoming even more lazy.
All this myopia pandemic looks like a natural consequence of our modern lifestyle – looking at screens most of the time. So it's more like an adaptation. But I don't think it's possible to reverse it without throwing away all the screens.
Is there any study on how personality or mental health dicates myopia in someone? I've seen kids suddenly develop myopia when their parents suddenly start fighting (or get divorced), or in teenagers and young adults in schools and colleges when they can't fully deal with the prolonged stress of life. Our thought patterns do have an effect on our eyes, and I've always wondered if too much introspective thinking or depressive ruminative thinking of the kind (where we "look inwards" mentally too much, focusing on our faults or trying to figure out what's wrong with us or the world) over a period of time, contributes to some form of myopia.
Anecdotally, there are people who have perfect 20/20 near- and farsighted vision even though they went through domestic and school violence for two decades in childhood and adolescence, and still have all the symptoms of PTSD.
There is a sceptical comment from the audience at 36:50 [1]. Maybe someone here has the knowledge to comment about that? Is it true what the person says - that the actual problems with the eyes won't be fixed, you would just get better quality vision through some other way doing this?
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Efg42-Qn0&t=2210s
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Efg42-Qn0&t=2210s
The audience member is correct. Myopia is caused by light entering the eye being focused in front of the retina by our natural lens and cornea, this is usually as the result of increased axial length i.e. elongation of the eye.
The dangerous thing about this talk is that the first 2/3rds are true. Reading, looking at screens and working up close as a child and young adult do cause progressively worse myopia by way of progressive elongation. This isn't controversial at all. There's no evidence that spectacle use influences progression.
The latter 3rd is all bullshit. While our eyes continue to grow and elongate until around our mid 20's, there's no mechanism I'm aware of that can shorten the eye which is what you would have to do to "reverse" myopia. This is more or less common sense.
There are studies that show that low doses of atropine given to children who are myopic with reduce the progression, but not reverse pathological myopia. At this point we're just waiting on FDA approval of a low-concentration atropine drop. I suspect that in the near future the prevalence of high and pathological myopia is going to decrease dramatically.
The dangerous thing about this talk is that the first 2/3rds are true. Reading, looking at screens and working up close as a child and young adult do cause progressively worse myopia by way of progressive elongation. This isn't controversial at all. There's no evidence that spectacle use influences progression.
The latter 3rd is all bullshit. While our eyes continue to grow and elongate until around our mid 20's, there's no mechanism I'm aware of that can shorten the eye which is what you would have to do to "reverse" myopia. This is more or less common sense.
There are studies that show that low doses of atropine given to children who are myopic with reduce the progression, but not reverse pathological myopia. At this point we're just waiting on FDA approval of a low-concentration atropine drop. I suspect that in the near future the prevalence of high and pathological myopia is going to decrease dramatically.
Thanks a lot for your reply. Yup I got this feeling after the presenter dodged that question. However I also got the impression that it is currently unknown wether the axis of the eye shortens after these exercises, is that true? I read more about the topic and some people call the improvement in visual acuity "blur adaptation" - can "blur adaptation" really produce such drastic effects, and if so - are there potential side-effects?
For example in my case I have medium myopia (< -3). The prospect of not wearing glasses anymore is very appealing to me and I don't really care about the length of the eye if all the symptoms disappear with this "blur adaptation. What am I missing?
For example in my case I have medium myopia (< -3). The prospect of not wearing glasses anymore is very appealing to me and I don't really care about the length of the eye if all the symptoms disappear with this "blur adaptation. What am I missing?
There is _zero_ doubt that these types exercises can work. I play tennis with a guy that used to wear glasses, with a decent level of myopia (slightly worse than -3), and over the course of several years reduced his myopia to the point he can easily play without glasses (it's something like -0.5 now). The only time I ever see him wearing glasses is at night. He worked off the methods in Bates' "Better Eyesight Without Glasses". I wear glasses myself, and am myopic. I would go through the effort myself, but on top of normal myopia I also have something called Nystagmus (shaking of the eye) of which the net result is additional blurring, so it's pretty hard for me to function without glasses at all (my vision without glasses would be about 20/400, with glasses it's 20/40).
Me and my children have found that nearsightedness gets worse pretty quickly if we read a lot of paper-printed material. But reading from a computer screen seems much less harmful.
We also have reading glasses that are about 2 diopters weaker than our distance (driving) glasses.
Anecdotal of course. I don't know anyone else who's claimed that reading a backlit computer screen is better than reading a printed book.
I don't know how (non-backlit) e-paper compares.
We also have reading glasses that are about 2 diopters weaker than our distance (driving) glasses.
Anecdotal of course. I don't know anyone else who's claimed that reading a backlit computer screen is better than reading a printed book.
I don't know how (non-backlit) e-paper compares.
> We also have reading glasses that are about 2 diopters weaker than our distance (driving) glasses.
I've been wearing glasses for 18 years. My prescription peaked around -3.75. Last year I got the usual eye strain suggesting my prescription needed changing, so I went to an optician and they suggested a stronger prescription: -0.5 more in each eye, and quite a strong change in astigmatism. I was a bit skeptical as usually when my prescription changed before it was -0.25 in one eye or the other, and I could still read mostly ok, just after a long day my eyes were tired. They insisted it was correct, so I ordered the glasses but when I got them I couldn't read a computer screen for more than 15 minutes without lots of eye strain. I went back to them, they tested my eyes again and said everything was fine and I just need to get used to it... Right.
After that I went to an eye hospital where they do laser surgery as they do much more extensive testing. They said my eyes were perfectly healthy, but the issue was the that the prescription opticians gave me was for distance use, not for computer use. I was a bit flabbergasted at first - you are telling me for the last 18 years opticians have been giving me the wrong prescription?!?! They suggested -3.25 for computer use, and to keep my old -3.75 glasses for driving. Sure enough, I can see computer screens perfectly fine with these glasses and no eye strain.
I've been wearing glasses for 18 years. My prescription peaked around -3.75. Last year I got the usual eye strain suggesting my prescription needed changing, so I went to an optician and they suggested a stronger prescription: -0.5 more in each eye, and quite a strong change in astigmatism. I was a bit skeptical as usually when my prescription changed before it was -0.25 in one eye or the other, and I could still read mostly ok, just after a long day my eyes were tired. They insisted it was correct, so I ordered the glasses but when I got them I couldn't read a computer screen for more than 15 minutes without lots of eye strain. I went back to them, they tested my eyes again and said everything was fine and I just need to get used to it... Right.
After that I went to an eye hospital where they do laser surgery as they do much more extensive testing. They said my eyes were perfectly healthy, but the issue was the that the prescription opticians gave me was for distance use, not for computer use. I was a bit flabbergasted at first - you are telling me for the last 18 years opticians have been giving me the wrong prescription?!?! They suggested -3.25 for computer use, and to keep my old -3.75 glasses for driving. Sure enough, I can see computer screens perfectly fine with these glasses and no eye strain.
The opticians weren't deceiving you. As we age our natural lens loses its pliability and we're no longer able to accommodate enough to read things that are up close. It's helpful to understanding the eyes' ability to focus distance (plano or flat) light and its ability to focus near (diverging light) as independent processes.
The change in astigmatism they noted is likely related to changes in your natural lens caused by the same process.
The change in astigmatism they noted is likely related to changes in your natural lens caused by the same process.
Disclaimer: I’m not a professional in this area.
I recall reading that one of the causes for myopia, from an environmental and habit perspective, is reading in low light. Having sufficient lighting available reduces the strain on the eyes and could prevent or reduce the development of myopia. You could perhaps look at increasing the lighting when you read printed papers or reading them in a natural sunlit environment with hardly any shadows.
I recall reading that one of the causes for myopia, from an environmental and habit perspective, is reading in low light. Having sufficient lighting available reduces the strain on the eyes and could prevent or reduce the development of myopia. You could perhaps look at increasing the lighting when you read printed papers or reading them in a natural sunlit environment with hardly any shadows.
-An 1883 study of military recruits found myopia was much higher in students and merchants than farmers
-A 1969 study of Eskimos found that myopia had increased dramatically since Western schooling was introduced
-A 2012 study of German students found more than 50% of university graduates had myopia vs. 25% for dropouts
-In countries like Singapore and Taiwan, myopia is common among even young school children
They all fit in the "correlation does not imply causation".
-A 1969 study of Eskimos found that myopia had increased dramatically since Western schooling was introduced
-A 2012 study of German students found more than 50% of university graduates had myopia vs. 25% for dropouts
-In countries like Singapore and Taiwan, myopia is common among even young school children
They all fit in the "correlation does not imply causation".
That guy’s a weirdo. Look up Cliff Gnu’s no BS guide to sight improvement and it’s all you need.
I have dropped 1.75 in one year. And this is without being super intense
I have dropped 1.75 in one year. And this is without being super intense
Do you have a link to share? I looked up "Cliff Gnu’s no BS guide to sight improvement" and "Cliff no BS guide to sight improvement" on DDG and Google and the top result is this comment, with unrelated stuff below.
Edit: eventually found this: https://losetheglasses.org/cliffgnu-vision.pdf
Edit: eventually found this: https://losetheglasses.org/cliffgnu-vision.pdf
This is pseudoscience and should be flagged.
In theory, then, people at risk of environmental myopia should get reading glasses to wear while working on close-up things. (Is this the “print pushing” thing described in the presentation?)
This looks like total quackery to me, especially given the bogus claims about glasses making myopia worse. Is there any kind of credible scientific evidence for this working?
Bogus claims?
Ok anecdotal evidence but I went to the eye doctor with my sibling when I was 8 and she was 10. We BOTH were proscribed the same glasses.
I ended up wearing them all the time, and grew up to having a -4.0 by the time I was 30
My sibling? She never wore her glasses growing up and oddly enoug has perfect vision in her mid 30’s
Now granted I spent most of my time growing up playing on the computer and reading - but I was wearing my glasses the whole time so year by year it got worse. Eye doctors say “oh youre just growing into your eyes” when they know that’s not the case. Look at how many children have (pseudo)-myopia due to growing up with smartphones and tablets 24/7. It’s not hard to figure out.
Now I don’t think there’s an exact science to curing myopia but at the very least everyone should practice the 20/20/20 rule and wear their distance glasses as little as possible. Just those 2 things can save you from developing pseudomyopia.
Now granted I spent most of my time growing up playing on the computer and reading - but I was wearing my glasses the whole time so year by year it got worse. Eye doctors say “oh youre just growing into your eyes” when they know that’s not the case. Look at how many children have (pseudo)-myopia due to growing up with smartphones and tablets 24/7. It’s not hard to figure out.
Now I don’t think there’s an exact science to curing myopia but at the very least everyone should practice the 20/20/20 rule and wear their distance glasses as little as possible. Just those 2 things can save you from developing pseudomyopia.
> Now granted I spent most of my time growing up playing on the computer and reading - but I was wearing my glasses the whole time so year by year it got worse.
AFAIU it's relatively well established that regular sunlight exposure is critical to proper eye development. But judging by the numbers you mentioned this revelation (at least the scientific evidence for it) would have post-dated your childhood years.
AFAIU it's relatively well established that regular sunlight exposure is critical to proper eye development. But judging by the numbers you mentioned this revelation (at least the scientific evidence for it) would have post-dated your childhood years.
Yes, bogus. This is something that there have been many scientific studies on. Randomly do different levels of sight correction for kids, and look at what happens. Obviously these can't be double blind studies, so this is the best we can get. There simply is no evidence there of glasses making myopia worse.
In fact, in a famous case they had to abort the study early due to ethical grounds. The vision for the (uncorrected) control group was degenerating so much faster that they felt compelled to give everyone the correct prescription.
In fact, in a famous case they had to abort the study early due to ethical grounds. The vision for the (uncorrected) control group was degenerating so much faster that they felt compelled to give everyone the correct prescription.
The results appear to have been replicated in another experiment: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16907670/