Afghans are racing to erase their online lives(wired.co.uk)
wired.co.uk
Afghans are racing to erase their online lives
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/afghanistan-social-media-delete
48 comments
It's not clear whether the Taliban will allow Afghans to leave the country. However, for now the Taliban has re-opened the border to Pakistan. The current issue, surprisingly, seems to be Afghans stuck on the Pakistan side who want back into Afghanistan.
No idea how this plays out. The Taliban leadership may just let people leave for a while to eliminate opposition the easy way.
No idea how this plays out. The Taliban leadership may just let people leave for a while to eliminate opposition the easy way.
Since the Taliban are now the government they probably have access to the previous military employment databases so even if they erase their online lives, clean up their phone... They might find who they are and punish them (torture, death) for working with the "enemy".
> probably have access
https://twitter.com/AmandaMilius/status/1427338941074710533
>Guest on msnbc just said the taliban have “our biometric database” of everyone who worked for US and are using it at checkpoints. When / how did that happen? Was that a massive story at the time or wtf? They used AF as a testing ground for biometrics and this is how it ends up?
https://twitter.com/AmandaMilius/status/1427338941074710533
>Guest on msnbc just said the taliban have “our biometric database” of everyone who worked for US and are using it at checkpoints. When / how did that happen? Was that a massive story at the time or wtf? They used AF as a testing ground for biometrics and this is how it ends up?
It is scary, depressing, and also incredible how comprehensively the Taliban is cementing their power and embedding themselves throughout the country. I am shocked they are sophisticated enough to implement biometric verifiable of political adversaries. Here are some other such news stories and social media accounts I read today about how the Taliban is pursuing control, many of which had photos and videos that made this tragedy feel very real to me:
1. The Taliban took over police stations and freed prisoners in virtually every town they captured. Many released were people jailed for terrorist activities or other crimes associated with fundamentalism, while others will simply welcome their liberators and join their ranks.
2. Taliban fighters went door to door confiscating weapons from private citizens, claiming they “don’t need them anymore”. Disarming the public ensures they will not face unexpected resistance.
3. A female journalist noted that overnight the town she was in changed, such that women were nowhere to be seen in the streets. There was also a clip of a female CNN journalist being asked to leave the immediate area because of her gender.
4. In Kabul, Taliban forcefully entered hotel rooms of foreigners, interrogated them, assaulted them if they resisted, examined/confiscated documentation, examined/confiscated electronics, and so on.
5. Taliban have begun questioning people to report on neighbors’ activities to identify US collaborators and members of the Ghani government. One woman tearfully spoke about how she’s afraid she and people she knows will be taken away from their family if people snitch.
6. Taliban have set up checkpoints controlling traffic within, into, and out of all significant towns and on all significant infrastructure.
7. The Taliban are testing out captured military equipment such as humvees, helicopters, and surveillance drones that the US left behind, to incorporate them into their military practice as soon as possible.
8. The Taliban have already begun forcing young girls to be married to their fighters in smaller towns.
1. The Taliban took over police stations and freed prisoners in virtually every town they captured. Many released were people jailed for terrorist activities or other crimes associated with fundamentalism, while others will simply welcome their liberators and join their ranks.
2. Taliban fighters went door to door confiscating weapons from private citizens, claiming they “don’t need them anymore”. Disarming the public ensures they will not face unexpected resistance.
3. A female journalist noted that overnight the town she was in changed, such that women were nowhere to be seen in the streets. There was also a clip of a female CNN journalist being asked to leave the immediate area because of her gender.
4. In Kabul, Taliban forcefully entered hotel rooms of foreigners, interrogated them, assaulted them if they resisted, examined/confiscated documentation, examined/confiscated electronics, and so on.
5. Taliban have begun questioning people to report on neighbors’ activities to identify US collaborators and members of the Ghani government. One woman tearfully spoke about how she’s afraid she and people she knows will be taken away from their family if people snitch.
6. Taliban have set up checkpoints controlling traffic within, into, and out of all significant towns and on all significant infrastructure.
7. The Taliban are testing out captured military equipment such as humvees, helicopters, and surveillance drones that the US left behind, to incorporate them into their military practice as soon as possible.
8. The Taliban have already begun forcing young girls to be married to their fighters in smaller towns.
If the Taliban are really smart, they don't do any of that for quite a while. That would give them a ton of legitimation internationally.
They're waiting for the remaining NATO and other western diplomats and personnel to leave.
The evacuation is ongoing. They have the airport surrounded but they don't engage war against the NATO soldiers.
So they try to look legit both inside and internationally. After the last NATO soldier leaves the airport who knows what will they do.
True. Who knows what they do after that. The Afghan war was a mess basically from day one, the retreat is in a different league al together so. Quite embarrassing for the most powerful military alliance on the planet, too.
>Quite embarrassing for the most powerful military alliance on the planet, too.
Not really. There is a reason Afghanistan is called "Graveyard of Empires".
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2001-11-...
Judging by the history that i'm naturally close to and know well, i.e. Russia history, the drive to free your Motherland from foreign occupants is like 10-100x multiplier of force.
Not really. There is a reason Afghanistan is called "Graveyard of Empires".
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2001-11-...
Judging by the history that i'm naturally close to and know well, i.e. Russia history, the drive to free your Motherland from foreign occupants is like 10-100x multiplier of force.
Sure, still the pictures of fleeing NATO troops and personal is quite powerful. It certainly doesn't project strength.
It’s even more embarrassing that despite all of this history they had the arrogance to believe they knew better.
Unpopular opinion: You really cannot fight an ideology, the Taliban is so successful because it has some (if not most) support amongst the masses. If there wasn't any, people would've resisted. May be this is a beginning of a long civil war in the nation but I doubt ordinary people will have a voice, they are surely significantly outnumbered.
I don’t think this is an accurate take. The Taliban does not have support of most of the masses. Various surveys consistently show that public support for democracy is more widespread than support for an Islamic emirate (example https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/30/afghans-w...). This makes sense - something like 2/3rds of Afghanis are under 25. They only know a relatively peaceful life without oppression or repression, under elected governments with America’s backing. The women and children in Afghanistan don’t want a society where they can’t get educated or where music and other media are banned. People didn’t resist because the US strategy to exit so quickly left them mentally unprepared and also demoralized them by lending credence to the notion that the Taliban’s threat demanded a hasty exit. America also really didn’t make a great attempt at establishing a professional, sustainable Afghan military (see https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/how-americ...) which is why military generals and various reports recommended against a hasty compete exit of US troops. The first few villages and province capitals to fall made the Afghani people fearful and they are just a poor people looking to survive. It isn’t worth getting killed if they think it is an unwinnable situation. But they’re still hungry for democracy and peace.
It could be that the drive against the Taliban in fact starts once these people under 25 see what the Taliban are like, for themselves. It is hard to resist something abstract.
Of course, in North Korea, that awareness probably exists, and it doesn’t help. But maybe it’s not the same.
Of course, in North Korea, that awareness probably exists, and it doesn’t help. But maybe it’s not the same.
Do you think they have the majority in Kabul?
Or is this a classical case of rural vs urban (only that in this case the rural people have a ton of firepower and the will to create laws that affect the urban people as well)?
As someone who grew up in Austria and Germany I think we can fight ideologies. In fact we have to. Having strong (intolerant) ideals is not a problem until you force it on people who don't in inhumane ways.
Or is this a classical case of rural vs urban (only that in this case the rural people have a ton of firepower and the will to create laws that affect the urban people as well)?
As someone who grew up in Austria and Germany I think we can fight ideologies. In fact we have to. Having strong (intolerant) ideals is not a problem until you force it on people who don't in inhumane ways.
Afghanistan is only slightly (~25%) urban. Polls show that a super majority of the entire population (including rural) favor democratic elections and not a council of mullahs (which is how the Taliban’s Islamic emirate is organized).
> I think we can fight ideologies
Which ideologies? And which ideology do you want to replace those ideologies with? Do you see the issue?
Which ideologies? And which ideology do you want to replace those ideologies with? Do you see the issue?
One that allows a plurality of ideologies while not opressing or killing people?
Also not as new of a paradox as you might think: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Also not as new of a paradox as you might think: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Friendly reminder that when you delete your discord account, they don't delete your statements, just strip the account name from them, similar to how Github is doing it with their ghost account. For Github, I sort of understand it. For discord, it feels very dangerous to me.
GitHub also allows you to self-bot.
Discord will ban you for that, even if you delete your messages with the app on a stock Android without any macros or other tools that reduce the required effort over the naive way (e.g. `from: namibj` search; repeat for each "server").
(Btw; you have a pending email. I lost my old domain, but keybase has other accounts and an encryption key linked. You have 24h before I'll have to reach out harder, due to acute urgency.)
Discord will ban you for that, even if you delete your messages with the app on a stock Android without any macros or other tools that reduce the required effort over the naive way (e.g. `from: namibj` search; repeat for each "server").
(Btw; you have a pending email. I lost my old domain, but keybase has other accounts and an encryption key linked. You have 24h before I'll have to reach out harder, due to acute urgency.)
No IM platform I am aware of does this. SMS doesn't do it, telegram doesn't do it, email doesn't do it.
Most platforms do not even let you edit or delete messages at all.
Most platforms do not even let you edit or delete messages at all.
In Telegram you absolutely can delete messages from the UI at least and I've seen nothing to suggest anyone knows a way to get them back as if it was known someone surely had posted it here ;-)
Just log press, delete and select "Delete for me and <other(s)>".
In Telegram, as an admin you can also select auto delete for a group.
Just log press, delete and select "Delete for me and <other(s)>".
In Telegram, as an admin you can also select auto delete for a group.
You can also delete messages in Discord and much more.
I don't know and I don't have anything bad (or good) to say about Discord, I just wanted to point out that it was possible in Telegram.
For SMS, the logs are stored on the devices, not with the providers. So providers have to take an extra effort to listen in. With Discord, it's already in a database. E-Mail does keep logs around but many clients have features to delete mails older than N weeks/months/etc. In discord or telegram, you need to use third party tools for that.
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You can write/use script that deletes all your messages
I haven't used this myself, but maybe this?
https://gist.github.com/victornpb/135f5b346dea4decfc8f63ad7d...
I haven't used this myself, but maybe this?
https://gist.github.com/victornpb/135f5b346dea4decfc8f63ad7d...
I like that. If someone's sent me a message in the past, they shouldnt be able to retroactively reach into my computer and remove it.
There is you not wanting to delete information from a public web service when they ask and there is people dying because you wouldn't delete information from a public web service.
Strange that you're worried about someone "reaching into your computer" but seem to have no problem using Discord, whose disrespect for personal privacy is legendary.
It's not your computer. The cloud, and discord is a cloud service, is always someone else's computer. If you want it be stored locally on your computer, use the discord data export feature or some other feature like it.
Also, Discord might be a "nice" company right now, but maybe it gets bought by facebook in 5 years.
Also, Discord might be a "nice" company right now, but maybe it gets bought by facebook in 5 years.
Isn’t this also how Reddit does it? Seems to be a popular strategy for social media services.
This is the perfect article for the "nothing to hide" crowd. It just shows that whatever we think is fine at the present moment, might become a problem. And if we can't take control over our digital past, this can have serious consequences.
If there's one thing China got right it's the non-interference policy in internal affairs of other countries.
Others should learn by example.
Indian border encroachment? South china sea islands?
Huh? What would you call them trying to place a Fudan University in Hungary then?
Did China drone strike civilians and hospitals in Hungary?
Did the USA build any Universities in Afghanistan or Iraq?
Did the USA build any Universities in Afghanistan or Iraq?
The word was interfere - it's a broad thing.
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Yeah I also like that about china. For example this time it didn't interfere
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/genghis-khan-exhibition...
Could site countless of other examples of the chinese not meddling
99% of afghanis believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. [0]
Finally they are free from their foreign oppressor, and they can go back to having their country ruled as they please. Anyone who believes in democracy will agree to this
[0] https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-relig...
Edit: the Taliban also outlaws the Afghani and Pakistani tradition of Bacha Bazi - the widespread custom of raping young boys, and with this in mind I am not surprised they are overjoyed to yet again be free to punish those who partake in it [1]. Truly a win for democracy and for protecting children from predators.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
Finally they are free from their foreign oppressor, and they can go back to having their country ruled as they please. Anyone who believes in democracy will agree to this
[0] https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-relig...
Edit: the Taliban also outlaws the Afghani and Pakistani tradition of Bacha Bazi - the widespread custom of raping young boys, and with this in mind I am not surprised they are overjoyed to yet again be free to punish those who partake in it [1]. Truly a win for democracy and for protecting children from predators.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
that poll is not suspect at all. nu uh.
Do you have any reading resources to share about faults in Pew Research’s methodology? If they are untrustworthy, it would be good to know
The issues with that 99% is that this had a 5% error margin and only represented adults 18+ 10 years ago.
10 more years of american ocupation and rise of social media, exposure to western way of life in the last 10 years could definitelly make changes. Also even if they wanted the sharia law many didn’t agree with some oppresive things mentioned there even 10 years ago.
Given a 5% margin, the worst case result is still 94% support - truly the will of the people. Discriminating children from participating in democracy is also norm in the west, and probably wise.
It is interesting that you assume 10 extra years of foreign occupation makes the average person more sympathetic to the occupying force.
It is interesting that you assume 10 extra years of foreign occupation makes the average person more sympathetic to the occupying force.
That is a pretty deep penetration of the former regime which is also evidenced by the speed of the power transfer. Not that it is a surprise in general for anybody who paid attention, and the end game was clear, yet the actual forest-fire like speed is still very impressive - for example the pro-Soviet puppet regime back then fought for 3 years after the Soviet forces had left before finally falling.