Jony Ive's design agency launches website(lovefrom.com)
lovefrom.com
Jony Ive's design agency launches website
https://www.lovefrom.com/
78 comments
Jony Ive’s site can just display a single poop emoji and he could probably still get away with it.
I think most would hire a software engineer with a poop emoji website, just because you can get away with it doesn't mean that it helps your career or is good to put out there. All this does is show that he wants to be treated like a diva, which is totally fine, but a lot of people will get put off by that (which I guess is the point).
He doesn't need to worry if this helps his career or not.
People who may want to hire him won't put off by this.
It is pointless to try to generalize this website to any other context.
People who may want to hire him won't put off by this.
It is pointless to try to generalize this website to any other context.
Exactly. The fact that no one here has to ask "Who is Jony Ive" says it all
I have no idea who Jony Ive is. The website is next to unreadable for me.
If you don't know who Jony Ive is, you have no possible business with him.
Even if I did know Jony Ive, I would probably still have no business with him. His site is a mess.
> If you don't know who Jony Ive is, you have no possible business with him.
Pretty sure there are plenty of CEO's out there who don't know who he is and could potentially be interested in his services. Just because you aren't aware of the designer world doesn't mean that you wouldn't pay for a top designer, and this website means the CEO would look for another agency.
Pretty sure there are plenty of CEO's out there who don't know who he is and could potentially be interested in his services. Just because you aren't aware of the designer world doesn't mean that you wouldn't pay for a top designer, and this website means the CEO would look for another agency.
If a CEO is in a position where they could hire Jony Ive but don't know Jony Ive, the CEO probably has someone working for them who knows who Jony Ive is and can pitch him internally.
Then you are not the intended audience.
why make a website in the first place then ? Isn't the goal of good design to remove everything that's unnecessary ?
Then to produce good design means becoming a monk.
There is no reason for him to have a website other than as a vanity project. Why there is no urgent plea to save the turtles remains a mystery.
How do you decide what’s unnecessary and what’s not? It would depend entirely of what you want to communicate, and to whom.
We don’t know what Jony Ive intended with this website, but the fact that so many here are criticising it makes me quite certain that we are not the target audience.
We don’t know what Jony Ive intended with this website, but the fact that so many here are criticising it makes me quite certain that we are not the target audience.
You're confusing the technical design of the website with the design and execution of the concept. The goal here is not to minimize LOC but to communicate intent and aesthetic.
The concept is extremely minimalist - simple black text on a white background, with a little animation. The complexity of scaffolding is irrelevant.
The concept is extremely minimalist - simple black text on a white background, with a little animation. The complexity of scaffolding is irrelevant.
i wasn't talking about code, but design principles that apply to pretty anything humans are building.
People here say "he doesn't need things we usually expect from a website, like contact form or anything, because he's johny ives"
But then why make a website in the first place ?
People here say "he doesn't need things we usually expect from a website, like contact form or anything, because he's johny ives"
But then why make a website in the first place ?
I would trust Jony Ive to be a better judge of the design principles behind the site than Hacker News. I'm confident it's speaking to its intended audience.
As far as why, who knows? Maybe it's a placeholder and other content is forthcoming. Maybe it's just a fun typographic novelty flier. Maybe it's just marketing. It's not a startup, he doesn't have to gauge market receptivity or convert leads.
As far as why, who knows? Maybe it's a placeholder and other content is forthcoming. Maybe it's just a fun typographic novelty flier. Maybe it's just marketing. It's not a startup, he doesn't have to gauge market receptivity or convert leads.
He definitely doesn't need all that Javascript ;)
He doesn't even need a website.
I'm not at all surprised about the response here. We are a community of people who love function over form (the perfect emblem being the purely functional design of our beloved HN). And in all honesty, my initial reaction was the same.
But we'd do well to bear in mind that:
- Most of us are not the intended audience.
- The purpose of the site is not what most of us expect. They are not trying to create leads from this page (hence the lack of useful information and call to action).
- And tangentially, the internet isn't only about function or utility.
I sympathise with the compulsive need to pull-apart a website with >300kb javascript, scrolling to get more information and unnecessary animation when it gets in the way of you using a site that you need. But surely this is not one of those times. Instead why not treat it like you are looking at an abstract piece of art. Sure a 3 year old could have made it but that's not really the point, is it?
But we'd do well to bear in mind that:
- Most of us are not the intended audience.
- The purpose of the site is not what most of us expect. They are not trying to create leads from this page (hence the lack of useful information and call to action).
- And tangentially, the internet isn't only about function or utility.
I sympathise with the compulsive need to pull-apart a website with >300kb javascript, scrolling to get more information and unnecessary animation when it gets in the way of you using a site that you need. But surely this is not one of those times. Instead why not treat it like you are looking at an abstract piece of art. Sure a 3 year old could have made it but that's not really the point, is it?
I get that it's all form. Like an ad or a music video. But my experience of it is that it's like someone has shoved something up too close to my face. The feeling I get is that I want to retract from it. Is that what they wanted? As designers were they able to get past their minimalism one trick pony and evaluate the overall experience of what that pony generated?
I'm so happy this guy is no longer in charge of designing Apple devices. They were among the most beautiful computing devices ever made.... at the cost of usability, durability, repairability, reliability.
They're far from perfect even now on these aspects, but there are tangible, non-trivial improvements already (except on repairability for now, but one can dream...)
They're far from perfect even now on these aspects, but there are tangible, non-trivial improvements already (except on repairability for now, but one can dream...)
Jony Ive without Steve Jobs is what evolution looks like when you have dysfunctional selection. I'm not sure Ive is even a notable designer unless paired with someone who can filter and guide him.
At least this is what the body of work after Jobs' death suggests to me: laptops that are increasingly nice to look at but, at times had faults that didn't justify their existence().
() Philippe Starck once pointed out that the world contains enough "things". Beauty isn't sufficient to justify the existence of things we make; when you make new things they actually have to deserve to exist. And I fully agree.
Whole generations of Apple laptops didn't deserve to exist.
At least this is what the body of work after Jobs' death suggests to me: laptops that are increasingly nice to look at but, at times had faults that didn't justify their existence().
() Philippe Starck once pointed out that the world contains enough "things". Beauty isn't sufficient to justify the existence of things we make; when you make new things they actually have to deserve to exist. And I fully agree.
Whole generations of Apple laptops didn't deserve to exist.
I curse my MBP's TouchBar, butterfly keyboard, and lack of ports daily...but I guess it looks nice.
That's a lot of Javascript to display a couple of lines of text -> view-source:https://www.lovefrom.com/main.ca75cd3b.js
Starting a modern web project: Should I "npm install everything" or "yarn install everything"?
A lot of that is to provide several different animations for the comma after LoveFrom is written. Whether that's overkill depends upon how important you think that animation is, considering most people will only see one version, but they seem to think it's worth it.
If only someone had created a simple way for web pages to display text!
The comma at the end of LoveFrom, has a different animation each time you reload the website.
Not only that, but it includes functionality: it's clickable, to load the next two lines of text. Such a remarkable amount of work has been lavished on that comma. It probably explains why there were no resources left over to put commas between the listed items "designers architects musicians filmmakers writers engineers".
Whatever I, or anyone else, think of the site, it's grabbed attention and provoked reaction/discussion, because Ive.
(And those animations are kinda lovely.)
Whatever I, or anyone else, think of the site, it's grabbed attention and provoked reaction/discussion, because Ive.
(And those animations are kinda lovely.)
There are 13 variations according to the JS. Script URL posted above by jmkni.
different animation the first 12 times you reload the website = much less impressive.
Ok, I'll chime in.
No menu!
Massive waste of screen space just to display a single word!
Making me scroll to find _anything_ of substance... and then finding there isn't actually anything of substance.
Each line has one or two words on it making me scroll to figure out what they are trying to say.
And I still don't know what the company/person is selling!
Please tell me this is the first attempt at a landing page or something?
Give me Geocities over this modern crap any day!
Edit: I guess I'm not the target audience then :)
No menu!
Massive waste of screen space just to display a single word!
Making me scroll to find _anything_ of substance... and then finding there isn't actually anything of substance.
Each line has one or two words on it making me scroll to figure out what they are trying to say.
And I still don't know what the company/person is selling!
Please tell me this is the first attempt at a landing page or something?
Give me Geocities over this modern crap any day!
Edit: I guess I'm not the target audience then :)
You should probably just view this as branding/marketing and not a functional thing. At least in it's current state.
Even then, this is poor branding and marketing, unless they were going for "unreadable" as a virtue.
So design is how it looks, not how it works…
Disappointing from someone the caliber of Jony Ive.
Disappointing from someone the caliber of Jony Ive.
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I don't think they are looking for plebeian customers, so there is no need for anything useful on that site.
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1, maximum-scale=1, user-scalable=no, viewport-fit=cover">
Do browsers still obey stuff like "user-scalable=no"? That would be bad.
Trying on an iPad ... Hmm.. it behaves weird. Some attempts to zoom into the site result in no action at all. Some attempts result in the site scaling up but then freezing.
Do browsers still obey stuff like "user-scalable=no"? That would be bad.
Trying on an iPad ... Hmm.. it behaves weird. Some attempts to zoom into the site result in no action at all. Some attempts result in the site scaling up but then freezing.
<span style="font-size: 125px;">horrible</span>
Most people will perform best when motivated, inspired, and pushed by someone. Imo Ive's best work was under Jobs.
It's similar to programmers working at a successful company, who have trouble to produce the same quality and pace without a 'manager'
It's similar to programmers working at a successful company, who have trouble to produce the same quality and pace without a 'manager'
Somehow it is strange that Ive is very much inspirated by Dieter Rams but didn't get the clue that design is something different than art. Or maybe art is where his heart is really at. If that is the case I can understand this website.
Haha! Funny. I love the comments, which respond to the comments responding to the comments.
This is my favorite so far: “Why have a website at all?”
Let me take that one more level, by suggesting any criticism of the _current state_ of the website is missing the time dimension—as in, What happens next week? Or next month? Or next year?
Even the most vehement critic may be inclined to revisit the site to see if it still sucks. Haha
Philosophically, this reminds me of a BBC short video I watched yesterday about entropy and the passage of time, The Second Law of Thermodynamics
https://youtu.be/uQSoaiubuA0?t=34
This is my favorite so far: “Why have a website at all?”
Let me take that one more level, by suggesting any criticism of the _current state_ of the website is missing the time dimension—as in, What happens next week? Or next month? Or next year?
Even the most vehement critic may be inclined to revisit the site to see if it still sucks. Haha
Philosophically, this reminds me of a BBC short video I watched yesterday about entropy and the passage of time, The Second Law of Thermodynamics
https://youtu.be/uQSoaiubuA0?t=34
We have a tendency to attribute "good design" to the conspicuous—the latest apple gadget, the unicorn startup with alegria art and custom fonts, etc. But this isn't good product design, it's marketing. It's an attempt to create an image that users want to identify with, feel afraid of being excluded from, etc.
Good product design isn't conspicuous. It goes unnoticed. Amazon.com is a well-designed product. I've hardly ever thought about "Amazon" in the context of using it. I've only ever thought about the thing I'm trying to buy.
Good product design isn't conspicuous. It goes unnoticed. Amazon.com is a well-designed product. I've hardly ever thought about "Amazon" in the context of using it. I've only ever thought about the thing I'm trying to buy.
I think this depends upon the brand and their marketing strategy. Amazon don't want you to think about their design, which includes dark patterns, as their brand is about making purchasing easy. For companies like Apple, being "designed" is part of their brand strategy, they push it as a differentiator and worth paying over the odds for. Doesn't matter than everything is designed, for Apple it's about being very conspicuously "Apple design", which people pay a premium for.
Plain text version, this is all that is to the website. But I'm sure they spent months in design sessions philosophizing about it. Eh.
"LoveFrom is a creative collective. We are designers architects musicians filmmakers writers engineers and artists. You may know us by our past work. We are obsessed with the traditions of creating and making. Fanatically devoted to excellence. Insatiably curious. We collaborate with leaders and founders. We work on projects for joy. We develop our own ideas. Love & fury"
"LoveFrom is a creative collective. We are designers architects musicians filmmakers writers engineers and artists. You may know us by our past work. We are obsessed with the traditions of creating and making. Fanatically devoted to excellence. Insatiably curious. We collaborate with leaders and founders. We work on projects for joy. We develop our own ideas. Love & fury"
> But I'm sure they spent months in design sessions philosophizing about it
Sounds like they created the typeface from scratch, so probably. To what end, I'm not sure.
Sounds like they created the typeface from scratch, so probably. To what end, I'm not sure.
Here's a piece that tries to explain the site [1]. Interestingly (to me, that is): Both the wordmark and ensuing text are set in a new typeface, LoveFrom Serif, which is inspired by John Baskerville’s letterforms and based on studies of his original punches and matrices.
[1] https://www.wallpaper.com/design/jony-ive-and-marc-newson-lo...
[1] https://www.wallpaper.com/design/jony-ive-and-marc-newson-lo...
Maybe this is a natural consequence of trying to look original and creative, but this site is really badly designed. It's painful to read. Why force me to scroll?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Ive's G4 Cube will always stand out to me as the worst computer I've ever used because the power button was hidden underneath it. It seems like form-over-function has always been his style.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Ive's G4 Cube will always stand out to me as the worst computer I've ever used because the power button was hidden underneath it. It seems like form-over-function has always been his style.
The G4 Cube has a power "button" on the top: you wave your hand over it.
I think the Cube was pretty well designed, it's fanless and practically silent (apart from the HD), and opening it up is amazingly easy: https://youtu.be/AwDOJ7HztXM?t=179
I think the Cube was pretty well designed, it's fanless and practically silent (apart from the HD), and opening it up is amazingly easy: https://youtu.be/AwDOJ7HztXM?t=179
Part of good design is that it's discoverable.
I wasted literally 30 min trying to figure out how to turn one of those on in a photo lab in college (before Google and wifi were in all pockets all the time).
Even the lab tech had no idea.
I wasted literally 30 min trying to figure out how to turn one of those on in a photo lab in college (before Google and wifi were in all pockets all the time).
Even the lab tech had no idea.
> Part of good design is that it's discoverable.
A more fitting term here, perhaps, is "affordance" (though "discoverable" is also accurate, but "affordance" is a more technical term here).
A mug without a handle can burn your hand. Adding the handle is a way to avoid that. The handle itself is usually designed to look like a handle. It's clear what the handle does, based solely on its form. You don't need a manual or an example or a hint to use the handle - most people, intuitively, will use the handle as intended.
The handle has "affordance". Waving your hand over the top of a computer in order to use a 'button', in contrast, has little to no affordance. The comma on this site acting as a button has no affordance. And so on.
A more fitting term here, perhaps, is "affordance" (though "discoverable" is also accurate, but "affordance" is a more technical term here).
A mug without a handle can burn your hand. Adding the handle is a way to avoid that. The handle itself is usually designed to look like a handle. It's clear what the handle does, based solely on its form. You don't need a manual or an example or a hint to use the handle - most people, intuitively, will use the handle as intended.
The handle has "affordance". Waving your hand over the top of a computer in order to use a 'button', in contrast, has little to no affordance. The comma on this site acting as a button has no affordance. And so on.
You're misusing the term affordance (not blaming you, Don Norman himself has written about how it's constantly misused).
You can wave your hand over anything (unless something is blocking your way or is too far, etc.), therefore most stuff affords being waved over.
A mug, with or without a handle, affords "being held with your hand"(although more or less comfortably).
What you're talking about is a signifier.
Quoting from a random article:
As Don Norman explains it: “[…] although affordances make sense for interaction with physical objects, they are confusing when dealing with virtual ones. As a result, affordances have created much confusion in the world of design. Affordances define what actions are possible. Signifiers specify how people discover those possibilities: signifiers are signs, perceptible signals of what can be done. Signifiers are of far more importance to designers than are affordances.” [Donald A. Norman, The Design of Everyday Things: Revised and Expanded Edition, 2013, pXIV-XV]
You can wave your hand over anything (unless something is blocking your way or is too far, etc.), therefore most stuff affords being waved over.
A mug, with or without a handle, affords "being held with your hand"(although more or less comfortably).
What you're talking about is a signifier.
Quoting from a random article:
As Don Norman explains it: “[…] although affordances make sense for interaction with physical objects, they are confusing when dealing with virtual ones. As a result, affordances have created much confusion in the world of design. Affordances define what actions are possible. Signifiers specify how people discover those possibilities: signifiers are signs, perceptible signals of what can be done. Signifiers are of far more importance to designers than are affordances.” [Donald A. Norman, The Design of Everyday Things: Revised and Expanded Edition, 2013, pXIV-XV]
TIL, thanks :) I've only ever had it used/explained in the manner my previous comment did. Always happy to be corrected there.
I don't think the power button was good design, but it is pretty clearly labelled on the top. The wave-your-hand-over-it operation has Steve Jobs written all over it in my opinion, not Ive.
If I was going to point to what went wrong with Ive designs I'd point to laptop keyboards, and the flat graphic design of iOS 7, which ruined many of the affordances of the interface.
If I was going to point to what went wrong with Ive designs I'd point to laptop keyboards, and the flat graphic design of iOS 7, which ruined many of the affordances of the interface.
If you don't have the time to scroll for Ive's company, you can't afford them.
Vow. That is minimalism. Clean and Simple.
Otherwise corporate website these days looks overkill, starting from that annoyingly Huge Hero banner with big image and unnecessary text. You have to scroll to bottom before you can find anything useful.
No career page though. Look like they will be hiring through referrals only or agency.
Otherwise corporate website these days looks overkill, starting from that annoyingly Huge Hero banner with big image and unnecessary text. You have to scroll to bottom before you can find anything useful.
No career page though. Look like they will be hiring through referrals only or agency.
148Kb to display a few words, of which 95kb is just JavaScript.
You can SO tell this is a Designers website. /s
You can SO tell this is a Designers website. /s
REAL designers would have laid it out in print format and shown it as an image, because HTML / CSS is too limiting.
The solution here is to implement your own font rasterisation library and make it render into canvas using javascript. Extra points if it's done through Web Assembly and spawns a Web Worker to render some of the more CPU-demanding glyphs in the background. Gives you that crucial control over kerning and guarantees that the pixels going to look the same across different operating systems. Not that Jony would care a lot about testing it on anything not Mac OS/iOS related though...
Side note: I love the website.
Side note: I love the website.
Reload it a couple of times...
So refreshing to visit a website that doesn’t have a cookie permission popup
No popups asking for my cookie consent, location, email address. Better than most of the sites out there.
Zero function.
Wait for it to start, wait for the comma, wait because now I’ve learned to wait, realize there’s nothing more to wait for, scroll thru meaningless verbiage that could fit in one screen, wait again to see if more will appear, scroll & bounce to elicit more, spend time tapping around for meaningful content, realize there’s nothing actually there.
Wait for it to start, wait for the comma, wait because now I’ve learned to wait, realize there’s nothing more to wait for, scroll thru meaningless verbiage that could fit in one screen, wait again to see if more will appear, scroll & bounce to elicit more, spend time tapping around for meaningful content, realize there’s nothing actually there.
No way to contact them?
If you need their contact details, you can't afford them.
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"It's our best website yet. We know you're going to love it."
It doesn’t need a contact form: he doesn’t need random queries from the internet.
It doesn’t need SEO: he’s Jony Ive.
It doesn’t need a portfolio page: he’s Jony Ive. And so on.
Criticizing this website makes as much sense as criticizing Steve Jobs’s business card. “Your business card sucks. It doesn’t even have your phone number on it! Let me instruct you on how to design a proper business card…”