Prostitution and Spam Killed Craigslist(ashlan.com)
ashlan.com
Prostitution and Spam Killed Craigslist
https://ashlan.com/blog/prostitution-and-spam-killed-craigslist/
67 comments
I don't have this experience, and regularly use Craigslist to buy and sell as I always have. Admittedly I never used it for social purposes since there were always other options, so maybe that piece took a hit over the years.
I’ve noticed the volume of actual useful stuff for sale is lower than in the past, I think due to Facebook Marketplace. Facebook doesn’t offer anything better, just constant advertisement since it’s right there on the same website people are on to serve their social media addiction.
FB market place fucking suuucks.
The few times I've posted stuff, I was inundated with phishing attacks. I was talking to a friend about it, and he actually fell for one of the attacks and had to spend a shit load of time getting his phone number back after they stole it. I actually found guidance from, I think, the FCC on what to do if you're the victim of this. Suggesting that this is a serious problem that FB isn't effectively dealing with.
CL all day, especially for the kind of stuff I buy and sell.
The few times I've posted stuff, I was inundated with phishing attacks. I was talking to a friend about it, and he actually fell for one of the attacks and had to spend a shit load of time getting his phone number back after they stole it. I actually found guidance from, I think, the FCC on what to do if you're the victim of this. Suggesting that this is a serious problem that FB isn't effectively dealing with.
CL all day, especially for the kind of stuff I buy and sell.
Since FB profiles are used in Marketplace, I've actually found it relatively easy to spot scammers or at least have a set of heuristics to judge whether or not a profile is legit.
Yeah, I quickly figured it out too, as the demographic of scam profiles doesn't match the demo I would expect to be purchasing the items I'm listing.
That being said, I don't like the idea of making posts in a place that I know paint me as a target for scammers. There's always the possibility of them using a unpatched exploit against me.
That being said, I don't like the idea of making posts in a place that I know paint me as a target for scammers. There's always the possibility of them using a unpatched exploit against me.
It is so nice with having a small native language. The amount of foreign scams were non-existant until machine translations became viable for them -- but are still easy to spot.
As English speakers you are so much easier targets.
As English speakers you are so much easier targets.
My parents started using marketplace and had mixed success with it. They immediately get messages from scammers who want to use them for phone number verification tricks, which as best I can tell are nearly benign; they just seem to want to use some service that requires a valid US number, not necessarily their number. Still, no good can come of that.
On the other hand they've had some luck actually getting rid of stuff, so that's been good.
On the other hand they've had some luck actually getting rid of stuff, so that's been good.
I’ve found FB marketplace much better than Craigslist. There is a small level of vetting available to you; how old is the account,do they know anyone I know, do they look crazy. You still have to take sensible precautions. So far I’ve always found what I wanted to buy, and a buyer for my stuff and zero issues apart from obvious scammers.
Craiglist is still going strong in rural areas for country things. My wife bought a goat on Craigslist lately.
I read this in Cameron Tucker's voice.
This anecdote brought me some joy, thank you for sharing it.
Yeah, I was thinking "Craigslist is dead? since when?"
Killed? I think it's alive and well. The Internet is full of gossip and reports that Craiglist's revenue is around $1.3+ billion with a 50+ members team. It's almost the same that OLX Groups generate with a few thousand employees.
Craigslist is likely in the best position it has been in years... They rolled out charging for service/job listing posts a few years ago and I am sure they make a ton of money.
Lots of people use craigslist regardless of Facebook marketplace or whatever else..
Lots of people use craigslist regardless of Facebook marketplace or whatever else..
If any one thing killed Craigslist it was Facebook Marketplace. I used Craigslist to buy and sell things for years; I didn't even know about FB Marketplace until a friend recommended it. I swallowed my hatred of FB to give it a try and it was easily a far better experience than CL at the time. Of late I've noticed that it's become a haven for scammers which is a pretty reliable indicator of success (the scammers go where the buyers are).
Facebook Marketplace just plain doesn't work for me. I want to look at things in my area but it can't work out that 400 miles away in a different country is not "in my area", and I never ever ever want to see "Delivered to your door" Argos crap.
I listed a laptop on FBM, and out of probably 30 contacts, 29 were pretty obvious scammers. Really bad experience. I've had much better luck on CL.
I mainly have been buying and selling photography gear and outdoor power equipment of late but when I did list my 2019 15" MacBook Pro a couple years ago I got nothing but ridiculous low-ball offers and scam replies. The scams were the typical "I will pay over your asking price plus shipping via PayPal" to which I always responded with "I don't use PayPal but I will accept your offer if you can pay with Bitcoin, here's the payment address..." which always ended the conversation.
I've been trying to sell a gaming laptop on FB Marketplace for local pickup (to avoid seller fees and shipping), and I've gotten about 20 scam attempts. Of the two legit interested buyers, one was a lowballer, and the other wanted me to trade it for a pair of headphones, an iPhone 8, and some shoes (wtf?).
"Will you take in trade?" is annoying when you have no interest in the stuff being offered. I recently bought a Canon 5D Mark III from a seller who also had another lens I wanted to buy. When we met I mentioned that I really wanted to get the other lens too but needed to sell my Sony a6400 and lens before I could justify it... turns out he wanted another a6400 and the lens would be a handy addition so we met one more time for a second transaction. I don't know if he would have accepted the offer for the trade at first had I offered it, but given the type of gear I was buying and what I knew he had for his primary gear I figured my stuff was way too down-market for what he shoots. Had I never asked I would have lost out... so I try not to get offended when people offer a trade as long as it's a reasonable trade.
When someone asks for a trade, my typical response is that I will trade them for cash, then they can use that cash to trade for the other thing they want. It usually makes the point of why money was invented.
Those shoes are worth tens of thousands now. Sneaker flipping is the easiest way to make money in 2022. You missed out.
This, I thought that Facebook gating would reduce spam but have gotten more simjack attempts than on Craigslist
Trading might be a way to flip stolen goods.
eBay also still alive, also inundated with scammers (from what I’ve seen, mostly targeting sellers).
Yup, if anything is killing CL, its Facebook Marketplace which is sad because Facebook Marketplace is an awful user experience even before you consider the scamming and spamming.
- The search doesn't support basic boolean modifiers such as AND, OR, NOT, or quotation (try to find a "day bed" without getting flooded with "bed" results)
- their filter complications (e.g. vehicle year) are completely hardcoded (try searching for a motorcycle instead of a vehicle and you completely lose vehicle specific filtering)
- they untoggle "local pickup only" whenever possible to force you into seeing "ships to you" results
- They will deliver you an infinite number of results even when the number of relevant results is few, including in violation of the filters you set like distance or vehicle make.
- More relevant results will end up interspersed with very irrelevant ones, forcing you to keep scrolling to find what you are looking for.
All of these things coincidentally have the result of keeping you on the site longer and seeing more ads in opposition to the implied goal of connecting buyers and sellers effectively. This is particularly bad in my opinion because every failure of FB to connect a buyer and seller is both a potential purchase of a new piece of junk and a potential trashing of the old, still functional piece of junk.
FB Marketplace is an amazing example of social network effects and the power of social networks to use them to demolish competition with a (intentionally? imo, yes) worse version of the service.
- The search doesn't support basic boolean modifiers such as AND, OR, NOT, or quotation (try to find a "day bed" without getting flooded with "bed" results)
- their filter complications (e.g. vehicle year) are completely hardcoded (try searching for a motorcycle instead of a vehicle and you completely lose vehicle specific filtering)
- they untoggle "local pickup only" whenever possible to force you into seeing "ships to you" results
- They will deliver you an infinite number of results even when the number of relevant results is few, including in violation of the filters you set like distance or vehicle make.
- More relevant results will end up interspersed with very irrelevant ones, forcing you to keep scrolling to find what you are looking for.
All of these things coincidentally have the result of keeping you on the site longer and seeing more ads in opposition to the implied goal of connecting buyers and sellers effectively. This is particularly bad in my opinion because every failure of FB to connect a buyer and seller is both a potential purchase of a new piece of junk and a potential trashing of the old, still functional piece of junk.
FB Marketplace is an amazing example of social network effects and the power of social networks to use them to demolish competition with a (intentionally? imo, yes) worse version of the service.
I've heard similar things from some female friends of mine who use Craigslist for anon hookups. They've had to move to other websites, of which there are plenty.
I don't think 'killed' is the right word, it just wasn't the right platform.
> Back in the day, I would pursue Craigslist when I was bored and needed something.
Back in the day when I lived in NorCal, I would receive Craiglist via email every week to find out what shows were playing in San Fran, because that's all it was. It's like what happened to SXSW: it used to be for music, now it became some weird tech behemoth.
I don't think 'killed' is the right word, it just wasn't the right platform.
> Back in the day, I would pursue Craigslist when I was bored and needed something.
Back in the day when I lived in NorCal, I would receive Craiglist via email every week to find out what shows were playing in San Fran, because that's all it was. It's like what happened to SXSW: it used to be for music, now it became some weird tech behemoth.
> now it became some weird tech behemoth
And coincidentally Craig Newmark is a billionaire.
And coincidentally Craig Newmark is a billionaire.
>I've heard similar things from some female friends of mine who use Craigslist for anon hookups.
Wouldn't that fall under the "prostitution" part of the title? From what I understand there isn't/wasn't an actual dating section it was all prostitution ads for years.
Wouldn't that fall under the "prostitution" part of the title? From what I understand there isn't/wasn't an actual dating section it was all prostitution ads for years.
It wasn't dating, it was just for hooking up. No money exchanged.
Craigslist is still around though. And they have intentionally stayed small, so I don't see how they're "getting killed".
If CL's values as a company were different, then maybe they would have decided to become a rent-seeker like Facebook, with a six-figure employee headcount and a multi-billion dollar ad business.
If CL's values as a company were different, then maybe they would have decided to become a rent-seeker like Facebook, with a six-figure employee headcount and a multi-billion dollar ad business.
I don’t think Craigslist is dead . It removed the personals section to fix that problem and Craigslist is still alive and well. Sure it has a ton of competition now from FB marketplace and others but I think it is still chugging along .
I think Facebook's introduction of Marketplace is what killed Craigslist.
For the avoidance of doubt, Marketplace won because it's _in Facebook_, and FB push it heavily, not because it's better. It's just as full of spam, scams, and people being crap to each other.
I created a burner Facebook account just to use Marketplace. On day 0 I'm told that I can't use Marketplace 'yet.' Every day for a few weeks I login and check and get the same message. Sometime at the 3-4 week mark I'm told I need to add a phone number or my account will be disabled. Back to craigslist/nextdoor/etc
Edit: My fault for using a loaded term like 'burner'. I don't have a facebook account. I created a 'real' account that I intended to use for marketplace. Apparently the lack of posting and/or lack of phone number is the issue facebook has, which is the issue I have with it.
Edit: My fault for using a loaded term like 'burner'. I don't have a facebook account. I created a 'real' account that I intended to use for marketplace. Apparently the lack of posting and/or lack of phone number is the issue facebook has, which is the issue I have with it.
It's amazing that it's possible to create "burner" accounts but my 15 year old account was banned twice for trying to authenticate oculus software so I could root an Oculus Go using John Carmack's technique. I gave up on getting unbanned after the second banning and haven't looked back.
My friend has a German last name that sounds a bit Nazi-esque, she had to make a fake ID and use a fake name on FaceBook because they would not believe her real name.
Hmm, tricky.
On one hand, I enjoy potential for anonymity on the web, and even in a social network I want there to be an option to contribute thoughts/opinions/content anonymously. FB & Twitter's veiled (not even upfront and honest!) insistence on phones is awful.
On the other hand, when it comes to marketplace, I very much don't want to have a no-name random person with burner phone and fake account showing up to my door to pick up synths or cameras or baby stuff :-/
On one hand, I enjoy potential for anonymity on the web, and even in a social network I want there to be an option to contribute thoughts/opinions/content anonymously. FB & Twitter's veiled (not even upfront and honest!) insistence on phones is awful.
On the other hand, when it comes to marketplace, I very much don't want to have a no-name random person with burner phone and fake account showing up to my door to pick up synths or cameras or baby stuff :-/
> On the other hand, when it comes to marketplace, I very much don't want to have a no-name random person with burner phone and fake account showing up to my door to pick up synths or cameras or baby stuff :-/
That's an interesting perspective. Is it the 'burner' aspect that you don't want, or the lack of being able to look at someone's social media to determine if this is someone you want to do business with?
That's an interesting perspective. Is it the 'burner' aspect that you don't want, or the lack of being able to look at someone's social media to determine if this is someone you want to do business with?
Ultimately it's a recursive thing:
If I buy or purchase something from FB marketplace, it's because I desire the real or perceived assurance of a real permanent public identity. Or to put it another way, I want their stake in the game to be comparable to mine.
If somebody is contacting me on FB marketplace in an anonymous fashion with no history or traceability, to me, they're voiding the benefit of FB marketplace. It becomes an uncomfortable asymmetric situation, and I see no benefit, and multiple drawbacks, of engaging with them with my full public, historic, traceable personality, against their black box.
There is nothing wrong with the anonymous mode, in fact it's great - as long as it's symmetric.
If my SugahHoney2001 meets your RoosterBooster17 in a parking lot via Kijiji to exchange some cameras, cool.
If my John Smith meets your Jane Doe at my doorstep with full identity on FB or Linked in to buy some synths, cool.
But if my Tom Jones, 57, Brampton, working for Microsoft, 845 public photos, hobbies of square dancing and kite gliding, is approached by your ___ from ___ and ____, I'm not going to respond - it's placing all the risk and commitment on one side of transaction.
Hope that elaborates my personal perspective somewhat :)
If I buy or purchase something from FB marketplace, it's because I desire the real or perceived assurance of a real permanent public identity. Or to put it another way, I want their stake in the game to be comparable to mine.
If somebody is contacting me on FB marketplace in an anonymous fashion with no history or traceability, to me, they're voiding the benefit of FB marketplace. It becomes an uncomfortable asymmetric situation, and I see no benefit, and multiple drawbacks, of engaging with them with my full public, historic, traceable personality, against their black box.
There is nothing wrong with the anonymous mode, in fact it's great - as long as it's symmetric.
If my SugahHoney2001 meets your RoosterBooster17 in a parking lot via Kijiji to exchange some cameras, cool.
If my John Smith meets your Jane Doe at my doorstep with full identity on FB or Linked in to buy some synths, cool.
But if my Tom Jones, 57, Brampton, working for Microsoft, 845 public photos, hobbies of square dancing and kite gliding, is approached by your ___ from ___ and ____, I'm not going to respond - it's placing all the risk and commitment on one side of transaction.
Hope that elaborates my personal perspective somewhat :)
Not the original poster, but my personal concern with Craigslist (and why I rarely use them anymore) is safety issues and/or weirdos.
Unknown people driving by at 2am, folks who look straight out of a ‘COPS’ lineup showing up then ‘not having all the cash’, etc.
Meeting in a public place saves some of the hassle, but adds another - lots of flakes, and time spent getting to and from.
If the item is big ticket enough it’s worth it, but man is it a waste of human effort most of the time. Sad.
With time being more scarce for me now personally, I also just can’t justify dealing with it most of the time.
Unknown people driving by at 2am, folks who look straight out of a ‘COPS’ lineup showing up then ‘not having all the cash’, etc.
Meeting in a public place saves some of the hassle, but adds another - lots of flakes, and time spent getting to and from.
If the item is big ticket enough it’s worth it, but man is it a waste of human effort most of the time. Sad.
With time being more scarce for me now personally, I also just can’t justify dealing with it most of the time.
Well yeah, it’s probably against the FB ToS to create a burner account, so it sounds like they correctly detected an account that wasn’t legitimate.
Well....yeah? It's Facebook, not Twitter. Burner accounts are specifically not wanted. And FB likely also doesn't want anonymous users potentially trading illegal/stolen goods.
I mean what you experienced is the value add of facebook marketplace (in addition to convenience).
It's the other way around. The only reason Facebook Marketplace is thriving is because of how shitty the alternative had become. Facebook's other recent product launches (like dating) haven't had close to the same reception because people saw no reason to switch.
I used to offload my used stuff on Craigslist. I was swamped with people intentionally trying to waste my time only to be lowballed at the last minute. Out of principal I would always tell them to F* off. I used to take adds down after the first person who agreed to buy it, these days the ads stays up until the money is in my hand, and I insta block anyone who tries to negotiate. Often it’s still too much of a hassle so I just donate it to charity.
I usually sell stuff that has any value for 50-70% of value to friends or family not to deal with idiots.
Anything that is meh but someone from friends or family would like I give away.
Then I throw away. Even giving stuff away for free can be too much hassle if you put stuff online.
Anything that is meh but someone from friends or family would like I give away.
Then I throw away. Even giving stuff away for free can be too much hassle if you put stuff online.
Might want to look at how you're wording your ads. At least in my city, it's normal to ask "will you take $x" if the wording isn't clear that it's a firm price, and those offers usually result in a completed sale.
I repeat that it’s final price and no-negotiation etc. This is stated in all communication. I have a good hourly rate so inconveniences quickly stop being worth my time. Lowballers don’t read. They’re professionally annoying for a living and there’s very little you can do about it if the marketplace allows it. Also Lowballers ask ridiculous prices, like 90% off an already 50% discount, they know what they’re doing and it must work for them often enough for them to do this seemingly full time.
Nothing killed Craigslist. It's still there. Use it.
Author's preferred method of using Craigslist was to browse. I've always used Craigslist for single purposes - there's something specific I want to sell or buy, and that's why I'm on the site. For that - it's effective, though I do get spam messages whenever I post for sale now. Fascinating that for some, the site is/was more.
Craigslist is one of those silent tech companies which are making bank (1+ bn in revenues) by flying under the radar and having very few employees.
Does anybody know of other websites like this, perhaps in other countries?
VK.com essentially gets by just by copying American social media companies functionality and offering them to people living in the former USSR.
Does anybody know of other websites like this, perhaps in other countries?
VK.com essentially gets by just by copying American social media companies functionality and offering them to people living in the former USSR.
I wonder how many lines of code it takes to run Craigslist. They probably haven’t refactored much since the 90’s. The profit margin is so high who cares about putting in new code to data science spam and scam.
If the author is reading, there's a typo on the third sentence.
> They don't move around things for change the design for the sake of change.
should omit "move around things for" or "change the design for"
> They don't move around things for change the design for the sake of change.
should omit "move around things for" or "change the design for"
I think they meant for the first "for" to be an "or."
Failed courts killed Craigslist. You didn't have to wait 9+ months for a civil case to start in Seattle if a contractor ripped you off ten years ago.
the people I contacted on SF Bay Area craigslist, were like seeing a Fellini movie in real life; almost exclusively active people that had little-to-no chance of networking other ways.. I really tried, it was terrible for me .. 2007'ish
Craigslist killed craigslist. lack of innovation and development really let the competition get ahead.
Facebook marketplace - as basic as it is, does a much better job of "finding" what you're looking for. In Canada, kijiji (bought by ebay at some point) took it's lunch before marketplace ate them both.
Facebook marketplace - as basic as it is, does a much better job of "finding" what you're looking for. In Canada, kijiji (bought by ebay at some point) took it's lunch before marketplace ate them both.
The thing that killed craigslist was a bunch of startups that took it's ideas and charged 5% for the transaction and lip service about how it is safer than "other platforms" (other platforms being craigslist).
Not saying that's good or bad, but that's what killed craigslist.
Not saying that's good or bad, but that's what killed craigslist.
I doubt this -- starting means developing the user experience (phone friendly probably) and also getting people to hear about it (marketing). Both are hard, what you say is the easy part.
It's pretty much the only place to buy used heavy equipment fwiw.
Is that true? What about Facebook marketplace?
spam by doordash, uber, and such has been insane on craigslist
The title of this article should have also included trafficking. While it has an overlap with prostitution, it is a heinous, misunderstood, and overlooked issue. It was also the primary reason for why Craigslist removed the Personals section.
The Department of Homeland Security has a great section on their website about human trafficking, what it is, how to identify it, how to report it, and so on:
https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/what-human-trafficking
Also, Girls Educational & Mentoring Services (GEMS) has been doing a great job at not just helping to raise awareness of the issue, but also has directly helped trafficking victims get out of dangerous situations and back onto healthy paths in life:
https://www.gems-girls.org/
The Department of Homeland Security has a great section on their website about human trafficking, what it is, how to identify it, how to report it, and so on:
https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/what-human-trafficking
Also, Girls Educational & Mentoring Services (GEMS) has been doing a great job at not just helping to raise awareness of the issue, but also has directly helped trafficking victims get out of dangerous situations and back onto healthy paths in life:
https://www.gems-girls.org/
If anyone would like to explain why this is being downvoted, I would appreciate it
Their 2021 revenue was $660 million, before pandemic - it was $1 Billion. Of course, it's not anywhere close to FAANG level, but better than many of the other struggling companies. I'd have that 'killed business' any day.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/craigslist-revenue-...