JPMorgan: “El Salvador Reduces Fiscal Deficit, Despite Bitcoin”(vanticatrading.com)
vanticatrading.com
JPMorgan: “El Salvador Reduces Fiscal Deficit, Despite Bitcoin”
https://www.vanticatrading.com/post/jpmorgan-el-salvador-reduces-fiscal-deficit-despite-bitcoin
34 comments
Slight aside: any idea why they would announce that? Surely whitely buying the bonds at the lower price would have been much better for the people of El Salvador?
[deleted]
Obviously they couldn't admit that it is in part thanks to Bitcoin. But fiaters gonna fiat, what can you do.
By Fiaters you mean people trading goods and services and running the real economy or what?
Didn't the Bitcoin part just obviously lose money? They bought in near the maximum price ever.
The point was never to make capital gains on the Bitcoin investment. The point was to make the economy interesting to foreign investors and bring in their money.
The point of bitcoin is never bitcoin apparently... You do make the economy interesting to foreign investor by investing in infrastructure, education, safety... not buying bitcoin and making yourself hostage to companies such as Bitfinex...
Why do we care about attracting investors?
Why does human agency have to be coupled to the patronizing view some white trash ape in a suit who “is wealthy” due to some past choices of dubious truth?
Can we break the mental model of needing missionaries spreading the appropriate spoken traditions and gospels?
Coins as totems of power and bank statements as scripture; to the flames with such thinking. I don’t owe deference to the sensibilities and figurative identity of some far off Ferengi babbling about their rules; I have no obligation to whatever set of principles grip their sensibilities.
The world is not “a vacuum”. Other people are not abstract agents to gather into a flock… sorry corporation… and dictate utilitarian effort to.
Why does human agency have to be coupled to the patronizing view some white trash ape in a suit who “is wealthy” due to some past choices of dubious truth?
Can we break the mental model of needing missionaries spreading the appropriate spoken traditions and gospels?
Coins as totems of power and bank statements as scripture; to the flames with such thinking. I don’t owe deference to the sensibilities and figurative identity of some far off Ferengi babbling about their rules; I have no obligation to whatever set of principles grip their sensibilities.
The world is not “a vacuum”. Other people are not abstract agents to gather into a flock… sorry corporation… and dictate utilitarian effort to.
We care about attracting investors because the country is full of people dying due to not enough monetary resources both for the state and for individuals.
Did you read the communication from before it was implemented? The largest talking point was getting money from El Salvadorans living outside the country back home (because the traditional banking system is failing them), not making capital gains from BTC.
I've heard from Sri Lankan families in Canada that they are doing the same.
How… exactly? Really curious how holding Bitcoin helps attract investors in a general sense.
Because the currency of that country is crazy risky. Same in Turkey. I've heard Venezuela people convert their money to BTC right away.
Inflation is so crazy your $2 can be worth $1 in 24 hours.
Bitcoin protects from those massive spikes. As bad as Bitcoin sounds it's perfect for them because now the corrupt governments can't take advantage of their citizenry.
You could go with Ethereum or other crypto but those aren't really decentralized.
Inflation is so crazy your $2 can be worth $1 in 24 hours.
Bitcoin protects from those massive spikes. As bad as Bitcoin sounds it's perfect for them because now the corrupt governments can't take advantage of their citizenry.
You could go with Ethereum or other crypto but those aren't really decentralized.
Governments use non-local currencies for trade investment, not as an investment. They’re not paying for anything in BTC, just holding.
Non-resident citizens don’t need the gov to hold BTC to be able to exchange it amongst themselves - case in point, all the other govs that don’t hold BTC/etc.
Non-resident citizens don’t need the gov to hold BTC to be able to exchange it amongst themselves - case in point, all the other govs that don’t hold BTC/etc.
> The point was never to make capital gains on the Bitcoin investment.
If your personal assertion was true then why did they picked Bitcoin over any of the myriad of better options already available in crypto?
If your personal assertion was true then why did they picked Bitcoin over any of the myriad of better options already available in crypto?
I disagree that there was a better crypto than Bitcoin. It's very much a long and very technical discussion that I can't afford right now, but I wanted you to know that your opinion is not universal - it's much less clear cut than "there was a better crypto, why not use it?".
which clearly is not the case
quoting the IMF el Salvador team
This has a lot to do with the pick-up in external demand, and El Salvador’s response to the pandemic. Though it is one of the most densely populated countries in Latin America, El Salvador had one of the lowest reported rates of COVID-19 infections and fatalities in the region and has a relatively high vaccination rate.
quoting the IMF el Salvador team
This has a lot to do with the pick-up in external demand, and El Salvador’s response to the pandemic. Though it is one of the most densely populated countries in Latin America, El Salvador had one of the lowest reported rates of COVID-19 infections and fatalities in the region and has a relatively high vaccination rate.
The same president that made bitcoin El Salvador's legal currency also managed the growth of the economy and its response to the Covid-19 pandemic. Nayib Bukele is the most interesting politician in America today.
> The same president that made bitcoin El Salvador's legal currency also managed the growth of the economy
rebound after COVID has been common in many parts of the World
Mt country have grown 7% after years of zero/negative growth
It was managed by the same politicians that could not make it grow in the previous 20 years
> Nayib Bukele is the most interesting politician in America today
that says a lot about the state of politics in America...
rebound after COVID has been common in many parts of the World
Mt country have grown 7% after years of zero/negative growth
It was managed by the same politicians that could not make it grow in the previous 20 years
> Nayib Bukele is the most interesting politician in America today
that says a lot about the state of politics in America...
He's also cut the homicide down to below some major US cities. The homicide rate fell from 38 per 100,000 to 18 per 100,000. Most people have only heard of him because of Bitcoin and so their own biases of Bitcoin cloud their judgment of Bukele. Locally he's a legend. He objectively handled Covid better than many countries around him(bested only by Costa Rica and Panama, which are already considered comparatively more developed than El Salvador). His foray into Bitcoin is considered a mistake of ambition not one of corruption. To put that into context the previous administration of El Salvador is accused of embezzling $300,000,000 USD. I wish more schadenfreude articles about El Salvador would include that fact.
> He's also cut the homicide down to below some major US cities.
that's not a great benchmark
US homicide rate is 10 times worse than my country and my country is just average...
Los Angeles alone in a year had more homicides than my entire country (303 vs 279) but my country has 60 million people living in it, LA only 4 million.
> To put that into context the previous administration of El Salvador is accused of embezzling $300,000,000 USD
small potatoes
and who accuses them?
is this president liked by the US?
because Lula is only the last one of a long line of former south american presidents destroyed by US propaganda to put there someone more "friendly"
Lula was innocent BTW
that's not a great benchmark
US homicide rate is 10 times worse than my country and my country is just average...
Los Angeles alone in a year had more homicides than my entire country (303 vs 279) but my country has 60 million people living in it, LA only 4 million.
> To put that into context the previous administration of El Salvador is accused of embezzling $300,000,000 USD
small potatoes
and who accuses them?
is this president liked by the US?
because Lula is only the last one of a long line of former south american presidents destroyed by US propaganda to put there someone more "friendly"
Lula was innocent BTW
> that's not a great benchmark
> US homicide rate is 10 times worse than my country and my country is just average...
Cool, but you have to compare El Salvador to its peers. How much money and continuity does your state have compared to ES? Even the poorest [GDP per capita] European Union states have literally multiple orders of magnitude bigger state budgets than ES. Getting homicide rate in Americas under the US average is a huge achievement, especially given how quick it was and how hopeless it seemed just a few years ago.
> small potatoes
Hahahahahah, maybe for you. It's the entire yearly budget deficit for El Salvador. These 700 million were the difference between life and death for many El Salvadorans who couldn't get their pensions or healthcare payouts raised with the inflation. Perhaps you could donate some "small potatoes", they really need it and it seems like you have more than enough.
> Lula was innocent BTW
I guess your investigation has turned up a new suspect?
> US homicide rate is 10 times worse than my country and my country is just average...
Cool, but you have to compare El Salvador to its peers. How much money and continuity does your state have compared to ES? Even the poorest [GDP per capita] European Union states have literally multiple orders of magnitude bigger state budgets than ES. Getting homicide rate in Americas under the US average is a huge achievement, especially given how quick it was and how hopeless it seemed just a few years ago.
> small potatoes
Hahahahahah, maybe for you. It's the entire yearly budget deficit for El Salvador. These 700 million were the difference between life and death for many El Salvadorans who couldn't get their pensions or healthcare payouts raised with the inflation. Perhaps you could donate some "small potatoes", they really need it and it seems like you have more than enough.
> Lula was innocent BTW
I guess your investigation has turned up a new suspect?
> Cool, but you have to compare El Salvador to its peers.
Why?
He literally compared El Salvador with "major US cities"?
Anyway, El Salvador have worse statistics than many major US cities, they are in the middle of the ranking in central America, they are far off countries like Chile or Perù or Argentina that are not western countries.
Secondly: in El Salvador homicide rates went down during COVID-19, like it happened in most of the Planet, notable exception the US.
But Amnesty International (June 2022) wrote:
Amnesty International found that thousands of people are being detained without the legal requirements being met – there was no administrative or judicial arrest warrant and the person was not apprehended in flagrante delicto – purely because the authorities view them as having been identified as criminals in the stigmatizing speeches of President Bukele’s government, because they have tattoos, are accused by a third party of having alleged links to a gang, are related to someone who belongs to a gang, have a previous criminal record of some kind, or simply because they live in an area under gang control, which are precisely the areas with high levels of marginalization and that have historically been abandoned by the state.
> How much money and continuity does your state have compared to ES?
How much more money USA have compared to ES?
> Hahahahahah, maybe for you. It's the entire yearly budget deficit for El Salvador
Still small potatoes.
The Central American country's total public debt was about $24 billion in March, according to central bank data.
> These 700 million were the difference between life and death for many El Salvadorans
700 million is more than 2 time the 300 million mentioned originally.
Are you spouting off random numbers?
The assumption that it's money that would go in Salvadorans pockets is frankly silly, MOST OF ALL, because these are your allegations, not facts!
> Perhaps you could donate some "small potatoes", they really need it and it seems like you have more than enough.
I've been doing it for the past 30 years, my cousin is Salvadoran.
> I guess your investigation has turned up a new suspect?
I just trust international institutions more than a random supporter of a wannabe who wanna make El Salvador a free heaven for international criminals.
Maybe he's loved by BTC enthusiast simply because most of them are bros who love money but hate other humans and their rights...
That's why the downvotes, truth should not be told.
---
El Salvador, in Brief: El Salvador joined Nicaragua in abstaining from the U.N. General Assembly’s condemnation of the invasion of Ukraine. A top U.S. official suggests international Russia sanctions will choke off cash even to Nicaragua. As El Salvador prepares to issue a billion dollars’ worth of Bitcoin Bonds, Bukele implies the Russia clampdown underscores a key use-case for the cryptocurrency: sanctions evasion.
---
Other figures with links to the El Salvador government have instead been looking to play down their ties with or support for Russia and President Vladimir Putin. These include the American millionaire bitcoiner Max Keiser.
Keiser and his wife Stacy Herbert were both in El Salvador earlier this month, where they have launched an investment fund named El Zonte Capital.
Keiser is an exceptionally divisive figure in the bitcoin (BTC) community. He has amassed a considerable BTC fortune, but has drawn flak from critics in the past for his appearances on the Russian state-run English-language broadcaster RT (aka Russia Today), where he has repeatedly blasted conventional Western financial institutions as “financial terrorists” and spoken out in favor of Putin.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/el-salvador-p...
https://journalofdemocracy.org/articles/latin-america-erupts...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/12/16/el-salvador-critics-bloc...
Why?
He literally compared El Salvador with "major US cities"?
Anyway, El Salvador have worse statistics than many major US cities, they are in the middle of the ranking in central America, they are far off countries like Chile or Perù or Argentina that are not western countries.
Secondly: in El Salvador homicide rates went down during COVID-19, like it happened in most of the Planet, notable exception the US.
But Amnesty International (June 2022) wrote:
Amnesty International found that thousands of people are being detained without the legal requirements being met – there was no administrative or judicial arrest warrant and the person was not apprehended in flagrante delicto – purely because the authorities view them as having been identified as criminals in the stigmatizing speeches of President Bukele’s government, because they have tattoos, are accused by a third party of having alleged links to a gang, are related to someone who belongs to a gang, have a previous criminal record of some kind, or simply because they live in an area under gang control, which are precisely the areas with high levels of marginalization and that have historically been abandoned by the state.
> How much money and continuity does your state have compared to ES?
How much more money USA have compared to ES?
> Hahahahahah, maybe for you. It's the entire yearly budget deficit for El Salvador
Still small potatoes.
The Central American country's total public debt was about $24 billion in March, according to central bank data.
> These 700 million were the difference between life and death for many El Salvadorans
700 million is more than 2 time the 300 million mentioned originally.
Are you spouting off random numbers?
The assumption that it's money that would go in Salvadorans pockets is frankly silly, MOST OF ALL, because these are your allegations, not facts!
> Perhaps you could donate some "small potatoes", they really need it and it seems like you have more than enough.
I've been doing it for the past 30 years, my cousin is Salvadoran.
> I guess your investigation has turned up a new suspect?
I just trust international institutions more than a random supporter of a wannabe who wanna make El Salvador a free heaven for international criminals.
Maybe he's loved by BTC enthusiast simply because most of them are bros who love money but hate other humans and their rights...
That's why the downvotes, truth should not be told.
---
El Salvador, in Brief: El Salvador joined Nicaragua in abstaining from the U.N. General Assembly’s condemnation of the invasion of Ukraine. A top U.S. official suggests international Russia sanctions will choke off cash even to Nicaragua. As El Salvador prepares to issue a billion dollars’ worth of Bitcoin Bonds, Bukele implies the Russia clampdown underscores a key use-case for the cryptocurrency: sanctions evasion.
---
Other figures with links to the El Salvador government have instead been looking to play down their ties with or support for Russia and President Vladimir Putin. These include the American millionaire bitcoiner Max Keiser.
Keiser and his wife Stacy Herbert were both in El Salvador earlier this month, where they have launched an investment fund named El Zonte Capital.
Keiser is an exceptionally divisive figure in the bitcoin (BTC) community. He has amassed a considerable BTC fortune, but has drawn flak from critics in the past for his appearances on the Russian state-run English-language broadcaster RT (aka Russia Today), where he has repeatedly blasted conventional Western financial institutions as “financial terrorists” and spoken out in favor of Putin.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/el-salvador-p...
https://journalofdemocracy.org/articles/latin-america-erupts...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/12/16/el-salvador-critics-bloc...
El Salvador(central america) was in a bloody civil war between socialist rebels and the US-backed government in the 80s. The tactics taught to the Salvadorian forces by the US are considered controversial and some "incidents" may have happened.
Thousands of refugees fled into poor neighborhoods in the US where Mexican and other American gangs already existed and this led to the formation of MS-13, a notorious organization. Over the years thousands of MS-13 gang members were deported or traveled back to El Salvador and became prolific throughout the country. When the civil war ended, the rebels became a political party(FMLN). Both parties traded presidencies over the years but due to poverty and post-war devastation were very ineffective at combatting gang violence, running the economy, and maintaining public order.
Bukele, a descendant of Palestinian immigrants from the former Ottoman empire -an ethnic group long discriminated against and held back from holding public office in El Salvador- is part of a new party called Nuevas Ideas.
This new democratically elected third party won a majority of its government seats and the presidency but is not well liked by the Biden administration. It has been accused of "subverting democracy" for replacing judges accused of corruption and of violating the human rights of gangsters who by definition have to commit a violent crime to initiate into the gang and are pledged to it for life. He's achieved this by doing broad roundups of hundreds of gangsters at a time. This is considered controversial by first worlders who aren't familiar with having a crime syndicate in every town and nearly every street and what kind of wartime-like operation it would take to address that. Violence is at a historic low, below what can be attributed to a downtrend. The Salvadorian response to COVID was also exceptional among its neighbors, far beyond what can be attributed to accidentally getting it right. Anyways that's my perspective. It's a bit biased but not one I see regularly so I'm just doing my part to show how central Americans might see it.
Thousands of refugees fled into poor neighborhoods in the US where Mexican and other American gangs already existed and this led to the formation of MS-13, a notorious organization. Over the years thousands of MS-13 gang members were deported or traveled back to El Salvador and became prolific throughout the country. When the civil war ended, the rebels became a political party(FMLN). Both parties traded presidencies over the years but due to poverty and post-war devastation were very ineffective at combatting gang violence, running the economy, and maintaining public order.
Bukele, a descendant of Palestinian immigrants from the former Ottoman empire -an ethnic group long discriminated against and held back from holding public office in El Salvador- is part of a new party called Nuevas Ideas.
This new democratically elected third party won a majority of its government seats and the presidency but is not well liked by the Biden administration. It has been accused of "subverting democracy" for replacing judges accused of corruption and of violating the human rights of gangsters who by definition have to commit a violent crime to initiate into the gang and are pledged to it for life. He's achieved this by doing broad roundups of hundreds of gangsters at a time. This is considered controversial by first worlders who aren't familiar with having a crime syndicate in every town and nearly every street and what kind of wartime-like operation it would take to address that. Violence is at a historic low, below what can be attributed to a downtrend. The Salvadorian response to COVID was also exceptional among its neighbors, far beyond what can be attributed to accidentally getting it right. Anyways that's my perspective. It's a bit biased but not one I see regularly so I'm just doing my part to show how central Americans might see it.
If you only follow the US press, you haven't heard of the following scandal surrounding the US Embassy in El Salvador.
Last year (2021) two deputies of Bukele's New Ideas party, José García and Gerardo Aguilar, were caught on audio tape discussing with Roy Garcia, a representative of some El Salvadoreans living abroad who was trying to form a new party, how the United States embassy was offering money to induce 20 members of the New Ideas party to leave and join his new party. The US embassy denied the plan existed, but the two deputies were expelled from El Salvador's assembly. The US ambassador to El Salvador, Jean Manes, left her position shortly after the scandal became known.
Last year (2021) two deputies of Bukele's New Ideas party, José García and Gerardo Aguilar, were caught on audio tape discussing with Roy Garcia, a representative of some El Salvadoreans living abroad who was trying to form a new party, how the United States embassy was offering money to induce 20 members of the New Ideas party to leave and join his new party. The US embassy denied the plan existed, but the two deputies were expelled from El Salvador's assembly. The US ambassador to El Salvador, Jean Manes, left her position shortly after the scandal became known.
shyn3(1)
A few “fiat takes” on El Salvador to compare this blog post to:
- https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/el-salvador-debt-imf-ec...
- https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/25/el-salvador-bitcoin-experime...
- https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/el-salvador-debt-imf-ec...
- https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/25/el-salvador-bitcoin-experime...
Still, good news. Successful fiscal consolidation has a poor track record in Latin America. If Bukele can show he has a steady hand on the budget, international investors may overlook his Bitcoin moves and return to finance him.
[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/el-salvador-debt/el-salvador...
[2] https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2022/02/15/cf-el-salvad...