Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024
https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/7/23673165/google-nest-dropcam-nest-secure-eol
72 comments
ADT is garbage.
I canceled ADT service about 15 years ago. For the next few years they were mailing open-air ads to my address asking me to reconnect the alarm system.
I managed to reach someone in their C-suite, who told me directly that they were unconcerned about that type of privacy data being made available to anyone who happened to read a literal postcard.
I canceled ADT service about 15 years ago. For the next few years they were mailing open-air ads to my address asking me to reconnect the alarm system.
I managed to reach someone in their C-suite, who told me directly that they were unconcerned about that type of privacy data being made available to anyone who happened to read a literal postcard.
Duh. How else are they going to fear monger you into reconnecting.
“Look everyone knows you no longer have an alarm, or alarm service”
“Look everyone knows you no longer have an alarm, or alarm service”
The best part of ADT is when the sales guy spends an hour face-to-face with you and you learn about 3-year commitment next day, from the installer guy, who (wisely) asks whether you are aware of 3-year commitment before wiring anything.
I installed a Mormon-owned alarm years ago (Pinnacle) and the division of sales/installers was stark. I didn't last long because is was so scummy. I was hired off craigslist and didn't even realize they were all Mormon at first. The Circle meetings, "The Wives" being always there but not working was really bizarre. I just couldn't take the lies the salesmen told regularly. Weirdest gig/contract I ever had.
Many customers were shocked when I told them what they actually signed a contract for.
It's not just ADT. We finally managed to escape from a contract with Brinks, after Brinks bought our previous provider, Livewatch, a few years ago.
It was hell, and in the end they made us sign a bunch of shit via docusign (!), and even then you're forced to pay for 30 days more service while they bombard you with scaremails.
Never again.
It was hell, and in the end they made us sign a bunch of shit via docusign (!), and even then you're forced to pay for 30 days more service while they bombard you with scaremails.
Never again.
ADT, Brinks, and Vivint are the three shitty horsemen of the home security industry.
Surely there has to be a forth company....
Simplysafe. At least their you can't disable their current generation of alarms with a $3 transmitter. Criminally negligent but oh well.
We have switched to "Abode".
Fingers crossed...
Fingers crossed...
I'm definitely among the unwilling.
I'm using nest secure now, anyone have any suggestions for a replacement?
At least they aren't killing my smoke alarms, though, they still can't automatically dispatch fire/police if there is smoke/fire, though they will dispatch if an alarm is triggered.
I'm using nest secure now, anyone have any suggestions for a replacement?
At least they aren't killing my smoke alarms, though, they still can't automatically dispatch fire/police if there is smoke/fire, though they will dispatch if an alarm is triggered.
Personally if I have to go into an 'alarm' ecosystem I'd go with Alarm.com if you're serious about paying for monitoring.
My favorite vendor is https://suretyhome.com/ - they have reasonable costs to get an alarm panel running with monitoring and all the normal integrations.
(I personally use an older Honeywell Vista security system that's been integrated into ADC via a communicator. The sky's the limit!)
My favorite vendor is https://suretyhome.com/ - they have reasonable costs to get an alarm panel running with monitoring and all the normal integrations.
(I personally use an older Honeywell Vista security system that's been integrated into ADC via a communicator. The sky's the limit!)
I am effectively a customer of alarm.com but not sure how. They seem to be a bundler or backend provider (sort of like a service OEM) for various branded alarm systems. Is there any technical material that explains what they do, and provides more visibility into the ecosystem?
Is alarm.com just a vendor for other providers like Brinks?
They do, yes. Some equipment Brinks and ADT sells also is part of the ADC ecosystem, but is restricted to only those vendors.
Any other alarm.com gear is generally fair game as long as it's been released from any account it's on from any monitoring company.
Any other alarm.com gear is generally fair game as long as it's been released from any account it's on from any monitoring company.
I’m surprised this space isn’t better disrupted. They all aren’t that great, even the new comers. Either they don’t have wide product coverage, only work with certain assistants / apps, are ugly, terrible UX, etc.
As much as I don’t think it’s that great, Ring seems to be the best of the bunch now.
As much as I don’t think it’s that great, Ring seems to be the best of the bunch now.
Security and more importantly Fire Alarm has ALOT more regulations and liablity than just a simple Automation to turn on the lights...
That is why you do not see as much activity in Security or Fire Alarms as you to other Home Automation, and most likely why Google went with ADT instead of rolling their own with Nest... Someone in legal look at that and said "Yea lets let ADT lawyers deal with that"
That is why you do not see as much activity in Security or Fire Alarms as you to other Home Automation, and most likely why Google went with ADT instead of rolling their own with Nest... Someone in legal look at that and said "Yea lets let ADT lawyers deal with that"
Ring offers this, and my understanding was previously Nest did too?
I don’t think it’s as big a legal minefield as you suggest. You just need the right integrations in place, and as you said, figure out the regulations (often at a county level). But it’d a solvable problem.
My guess is that this business is very sticky so it’s hard to get new people started… plus you’re making a lot of SKUs in hardware that you need to keep in inventory, software up to date, once you buy the hardware you don’t upgrade it, it’s not very sexy, etc.
I don’t think it’s as big a legal minefield as you suggest. You just need the right integrations in place, and as you said, figure out the regulations (often at a county level). But it’d a solvable problem.
My guess is that this business is very sticky so it’s hard to get new people started… plus you’re making a lot of SKUs in hardware that you need to keep in inventory, software up to date, once you buy the hardware you don’t upgrade it, it’s not very sexy, etc.
>>I don’t think it’s as big a legal minefield as you suggest.
That minefield is a 3 legged stool
1. Actual Legal Liability
2. Perceived Legal Liability
3. PR Liability around the law / legal system
#1 is probably not very big, however if you put a smoke alarm in someones home that does not work correctly or perceived to not work correctly and your a name like Google that the media loves to report on... well #2 and #3 become HUGE.
law suits will be filled, and even if you "win" in actual court, the court of public opinion will not be favorable
That minefield is a 3 legged stool
1. Actual Legal Liability
2. Perceived Legal Liability
3. PR Liability around the law / legal system
#1 is probably not very big, however if you put a smoke alarm in someones home that does not work correctly or perceived to not work correctly and your a name like Google that the media loves to report on... well #2 and #3 become HUGE.
law suits will be filled, and even if you "win" in actual court, the court of public opinion will not be favorable
Seems like you’re moving the goal posts. Previously it was about regulation and monitoring, now it’s about a smoke alarm going off. Let me remind you Google (Nest) still sells a very expensive smoke detector, even if they don’t have a monitoring service to use it with.
Note many alarm companies can still link to it one way or another; in fact I use the nest products with Ring via something that listens for its chirps.
You can also sell alarm service without fire, and vice versa. Or use a third party product whitelabeled, as many do with First smoke alarms.
Note many alarm companies can still link to it one way or another; in fact I use the nest products with Ring via something that listens for its chirps.
You can also sell alarm service without fire, and vice versa. Or use a third party product whitelabeled, as many do with First smoke alarms.
no my original comment talks about Security *AND Fire Alarms*
I don’t get your original point then. You suggested google lawyers looked at the problem and suggested to use ADT, when in fact they both still sell smoke detectors and it’s their home security system that they’re dropping… likely because it was expensive and never a winner. If it made real money (which their fire alarms do) I don’t think they’d be dropping it, and they never explicitly used ADT while they were selling the product; it’s an alternative now that the hardware you originally bought for hundreds or few thousands literally no longer works.
If you look at their Nest Secure offering, it was always half baked. They didn’t have enough accessories to make a compelling line up. Rather than legal liability, it seems far more likely to be another half-in-half-out product that Google is infamous for rolling out and then killing a few years later.
If you look at their Nest Secure offering, it was always half baked. They didn’t have enough accessories to make a compelling line up. Rather than legal liability, it seems far more likely to be another half-in-half-out product that Google is infamous for rolling out and then killing a few years later.
It’s a good enough product with recurring subscription revenue. There’s zero reason to innovate. Everything is a cost, and it’s unclear that customers actually want “better”.
Fortunately I never had to rely on it, but Simplisafe was super easy to set up, and had a nice app/interface/customer support.
I wonder how many false alarms the fire department would get if they get dispatched every time a smoke alarm goes off.
And I'm one of the guilty ones. Well, the apartment I live at is. Its range hood is one of those things that even after putting in brand new filters and extensive cleaning barely performs better as one of those fake ones at Ikea.
Same with the bathroom fan. When you turn it on it's loud, but it just circulates air. So I open the door. But that sets of the smoke alarm in the hallway...
And I'm one of the guilty ones. Well, the apartment I live at is. Its range hood is one of those things that even after putting in brand new filters and extensive cleaning barely performs better as one of those fake ones at Ikea.
Same with the bathroom fan. When you turn it on it's loud, but it just circulates air. So I open the door. But that sets of the smoke alarm in the hallway...
What are you doing in the bathroom that sets off a smoke alarm?
Hot shower = steam, which triggers a smoke detector!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg
Roll your own Self Hosted Solution,
Either Buy DSC Wired Gear yourself[1] and install it (hard) or do a "less secure" wireless system using HomeAssistance and Zigbee or Zwave devices.
[1]https://www.level1techs.com/video/better-iot-dsc-alarms-whom...
Either Buy DSC Wired Gear yourself[1] and install it (hard) or do a "less secure" wireless system using HomeAssistance and Zigbee or Zwave devices.
[1]https://www.level1techs.com/video/better-iot-dsc-alarms-whom...
Don't forget you can add an AlarmDecoder to a DSC (or Honeywell Vista) system!
https://www.alarmdecoder.com/
It basically sits on the keypad bus of the system and emulates a normal keypad, so you can integrate it into whatever applications you want like HomeKit, or as my colleagues did, a fully homespun bespoke home automation suite in .NET.
https://www.alarmdecoder.com/
It basically sits on the keypad bus of the system and emulates a normal keypad, so you can integrate it into whatever applications you want like HomeKit, or as my colleagues did, a fully homespun bespoke home automation suite in .NET.
DSC has a serial port option that accepts all their commands and offers virtual keypad functions. There are also third party option networked options that speak the same protocol.
I highly recommend Alarm Relay for monitoring a traditional system. $120 a year or so.
It's wise to closely review and avoid the marketing of companies selling old infrastructure repackaged as new. Security companies are looking for new lines of revenue.
Telcos, and cable companies will often private label existing solutions that are made for enterprise (B2E) and not really meant for B2C as well, let alone B2B (small business)
You would be better off finding something like Home Assistant and stumbling through connecting something together.
Telcos, and cable companies will often private label existing solutions that are made for enterprise (B2E) and not really meant for B2C as well, let alone B2B (small business)
You would be better off finding something like Home Assistant and stumbling through connecting something together.
Wow, sounds like they've gotten pretty shitty.
I've been using ADT for 26 years, and in my current home for 23. I have had no issues with them, and have found them responsive when alarms happen or equipment needed to be replaced.
OTOH, some pals have a Simplisafe setup and it's been a darkly hilarious saga of nonfunctional sensors, false alarms, and ongoing chicanery.
I've been using ADT for 26 years, and in my current home for 23. I have had no issues with them, and have found them responsive when alarms happen or equipment needed to be replaced.
OTOH, some pals have a Simplisafe setup and it's been a darkly hilarious saga of nonfunctional sensors, false alarms, and ongoing chicanery.
Another day, another google death
https://killedbygoogle.com/
With this track record I never plan on using a new google product. Now, I will immediately stop using or sell anything I have that is acquired by google. It seems like they're only capable of leaving a trail of corpses of past good ideas.
With this track record I never plan on using a new google product. Now, I will immediately stop using or sell anything I have that is acquired by google. It seems like they're only capable of leaving a trail of corpses of past good ideas.
They haven't released a Dropcam in 8 years? "Nest Secure" was cancelled in 2020.. and now they're saying "hey, we'll actually turn things off in 2024"
I think the reason killedbygoogle.com actually exists is because they try to be professional about notifying folks of things they are EoL, and communicate updates along the way.
I think the reason killedbygoogle.com actually exists is because they try to be professional about notifying folks of things they are EoL, and communicate updates along the way.
no, they have a well earned reputation of being an incubator with little incentive for long term support
>I will immediately stop using or sell anything I have that is acquired by google.
This is the crux though. You could be totally satisfied with a non-Googly product, but suddenly become a Googly user when Googs buys the successful company. I feel this way about Amazon buying the Roomba company.
This is the crux though. You could be totally satisfied with a non-Googly product, but suddenly become a Googly user when Googs buys the successful company. I feel this way about Amazon buying the Roomba company.
I heard this news and was all set to be annoyed, since I have a Dropcam we set up when we're away from the house for longer trips, but then I checked my records and realized I've had it for 9 years, & of course they're only sunsetting it NEXT year.
Ten years is okay.
Ten years is okay.
These aren't even good ideas. They're acquisitions. They could have been totally fine, profitable companies on their own.
> They could have been totally fine, profitable companies on their own.
Very, very unlikely. The business model was an illusion.
Very, very unlikely. The business model was an illusion.
Until the prophecy is fulfilled and Google voluntarily shuts itself down, in the ultimate twist of irony.
VMware build vSphere on Angular. I wonder what they're using now.
Don't buy a GM car, then.
They likely won't... but would really appreciate if, when hardware vendors EOL their products they'd release schema diagrams and protocol documentation. There's no reason you shouldn't get at LEAST a decade out of these. It's the main thing that has kept me from any kind of "smart home" integration at all.
I wound up going with a security package from my cable company (kind of crappy cameras, tbh), but I'm not thinking in terms of ownership at this level. In the end, it's just disappointing in general how much churn there is in the tech space.
Similarly, I'm not going to buy a fridge, or washing machine with a built in tablet, when they stop receiving updates in under a year usually. It's just really crappy as a race to the bottom. Either start with a rental/subscription model, or be prepared to maintain the product for a decade. Homes and cars aren't churned like phones.
I wound up going with a security package from my cable company (kind of crappy cameras, tbh), but I'm not thinking in terms of ownership at this level. In the end, it's just disappointing in general how much churn there is in the tech space.
Similarly, I'm not going to buy a fridge, or washing machine with a built in tablet, when they stop receiving updates in under a year usually. It's just really crappy as a race to the bottom. Either start with a rental/subscription model, or be prepared to maintain the product for a decade. Homes and cars aren't churned like phones.
Yep, Rebble kept my Pebble running for many years after the company was bought. I finally gave up on it because the battery life got so short, and I don't trust myself to repair it decently. I loved that thing, and I'm so glad it was able to live beyond the acquisition of the company!
Hopefully someone can figure out a way to do something similar for these devices.
Hopefully someone can figure out a way to do something similar for these devices.
Considering that Dropcam came out in 2012, (and the Pro version in 2013) I think this is actually good enough. We don't expect IoT devices from other brands to be working forever either. Not even Apple supports their devices for that long. Google just gets a lot of hate on HN but this isn't anything deserving that much hate.
The article kind of made the same point:
> Google previously committed to supporting Nest products for at least five years, and it did meet that standard. If you’ve been holding onto a Dropcam for more than a decade, it’s hard to argue that you didn’t get your money’s worth
The article kind of made the same point:
> Google previously committed to supporting Nest products for at least five years, and it did meet that standard. If you’ve been holding onto a Dropcam for more than a decade, it’s hard to argue that you didn’t get your money’s worth
The objection isn't that they're dropping support for specific older devices... it's that they're dropping support for the entire platform, including Nest cameras that are still on sale right now.
The major issue is we know the minimal least effort steps involved to keep these things working aren't hard.
Release a firmware update that updates the device to only point to ips/domains in the private range as it's new control/update/whatever server and update any security certs to a new releasable one.
Then open source the server software if not still in use, or roll back the firmware the x number of years to the point were the requirements to maintain the device started diverging and release that version of the updated old firmware/old server source.
There's no ongoing cost to the company and people can continue to use their devices if they wish to put in the effort to maintain it. I mean I'm not up in arms about this case, but it's such a common story about how device/software is no longer usable because finance wants to turn off a server that it should be SOP in every sunset plan. I'd go so far as saying it should be regulated as the minimum.
Release a firmware update that updates the device to only point to ips/domains in the private range as it's new control/update/whatever server and update any security certs to a new releasable one.
Then open source the server software if not still in use, or roll back the firmware the x number of years to the point were the requirements to maintain the device started diverging and release that version of the updated old firmware/old server source.
There's no ongoing cost to the company and people can continue to use their devices if they wish to put in the effort to maintain it. I mean I'm not up in arms about this case, but it's such a common story about how device/software is no longer usable because finance wants to turn off a server that it should be SOP in every sunset plan. I'd go so far as saying it should be regulated as the minimum.
Since you probably haven't worked at Google, this sort of thing is what many googlers have wanted since at least the closure of Google Reader. But executives and engineers won't get promoted doing anything but launching products, so it never happens.
Also, normal companies would just sell off the tech to someone else or even just spin off a new company that would manage everything but again, no one would get promoted so it doesn't happen.
Also, normal companies would just sell off the tech to someone else or even just spin off a new company that would manage everything but again, no one would get promoted so it doesn't happen.
Stuff that is integrated into your house needs to last more than 5 years.
Hell, standard warranties on new homes are 10 years, and I’d wager if a developer built a bunch of houses that stopped working after ten years and a day, they’d lose badly in court.
Hell, standard warranties on new homes are 10 years, and I’d wager if a developer built a bunch of houses that stopped working after ten years and a day, they’d lose badly in court.
The 10 year warranty is only for structural stuff (or the “bones”) I believe, not for things like doors/windows/finishes/fixtures/etc. In a cheaply tract built house, that stuff will wear out within 5 years.
With the news that they are shutting down the Google assistant smart displays, the best thing you can do now is just not have smart devices like these in your house or just use Home assistant. They're just waiting to go to the landfill.
Yeah... as much as I wouldn't mind doing more "smart home" stuff, I absolutely won't as I don't trust anything to be supported for a decade or more, which is where I consider home stuff should be.
Generally speaking, I no longer buy any device that requires a smartphone app or otherwise not built into the device itself.
Does anyone know of the devices will work even locally? That would provide some value, though of course most of the value is in remote notifications and status availability.
Separately, is there any chance that folks here might be able to come up with something like Rebble to give these devices life into the future? I have a lot of sensors and hate to think this will go completely to waste!
UPDATE: If these will still run locally (like they can now when my wifi is down), then I'd probably buy a HomePod Mini and train it on the Nest's alarm sound for use with the Sound Detection feature. [1] I first heard of this feature at an Apple presentation at the CSUN Assistive Technology conference and thought it sounded really useful.
Although it wouldn't let me know what door/window was opened, it would at least send an alert to my phone so that I would know to look into things further.
1: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/18/homepod-sound-recogniti...
Separately, is there any chance that folks here might be able to come up with something like Rebble to give these devices life into the future? I have a lot of sensors and hate to think this will go completely to waste!
UPDATE: If these will still run locally (like they can now when my wifi is down), then I'd probably buy a HomePod Mini and train it on the Nest's alarm sound for use with the Sound Detection feature. [1] I first heard of this feature at an Apple presentation at the CSUN Assistive Technology conference and thought it sounded really useful.
Although it wouldn't let me know what door/window was opened, it would at least send an alert to my phone so that I would know to look into things further.
1: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/18/homepod-sound-recogniti...
> Now that it’s dropping Dropcam and Nest Secure, the Nest Protect smart smoke alarms are the only Nest App-only devices left
Wait, what does this mean? Does this mean my Nest thermostat has... another app I can use? I mean, the Nest app is a dumpster fire of deferred features. The only reason I know it's been touched in the past 9 years is because the app was updated to work full-screen on the iPhone X.
Wait, what does this mean? Does this mean my Nest thermostat has... another app I can use? I mean, the Nest app is a dumpster fire of deferred features. The only reason I know it's been touched in the past 9 years is because the app was updated to work full-screen on the iPhone X.
To reply to myself, this is some fantastic word soup, but it looks like I can use the Google app? Or the Home app? Possibly they're different things? It'll be fascinating to see if I can do fancy modern high tech thermostat things like... override a schedule.
>Once you add your Google Nest thermostat to the Home or Nest app, you can easily control it even when you're not at home.
> The Nest Thermostat can only be controlled with the Home app.
> You can control the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E with the Home app after you migrate your Nest Account to a Google Account.
> The Nest app also offers full control and settings for the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E.
>Once you add your Google Nest thermostat to the Home or Nest app, you can easily control it even when you're not at home.
> The Nest Thermostat can only be controlled with the Home app.
> You can control the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E with the Home app after you migrate your Nest Account to a Google Account.
> The Nest app also offers full control and settings for the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E.
It's the Google Home app. Hopefully they'll invest in the interface quite a bit over the coming year but it does a good job of managing all of the devices in my home right now. So this isn't a huge issue. The weird problem of having both the Nest app and Google Home has always been really weird.
It looks like you have to migrate your Nest to the Google Home app in order to control schedules in Google Home. (As it is now, I can change the current temp as a one-off, or do voice control, but I can't change schedules).
Unfortunately, it sounds like the scheduling is just as simplistic and featureless as the scheduling in the native Nest app. (Eg, manually set up each day, with basic copy+paste functionality (probably), no overrides, no ability to do anything different from week to week). So, I probably won't risk the migration.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the scheduling is just as simplistic and featureless as the scheduling in the native Nest app. (Eg, manually set up each day, with basic copy+paste functionality (probably), no overrides, no ability to do anything different from week to week). So, I probably won't risk the migration.
Presumably the Google Home app? That's where they moved the Google Wifi stuff too before they stopped updating the dedicated Google Wifi app.
"Google, the finest place where startups and products go to die" ;-)
Honestly, how many surviving Google products were developed at Google instead of outside it and then got absorbed by it at some point? They keep absorbing working startups and often killing their products to work on new products, only for those products to always be incredibly niche and never survive more than half a decade or so. Basically only the actual business-oriented ones, with anything consumer-facing shutting down fairly quickly.
God, G+ was bad though.
God, G+ was bad though.
G+ had a good idea at its core, though. Facebook lost its appeal for 24-year-old me as soon as all my random aunts and uncles were on there posting boomer memes and commenting on photos of me at a kegger, or whatever dumb stuff I was getting photographed doing back then.
The "Circles" feature was a nice way to address that in theory, but the execution was really half-baked and the network effect didn't help them.
The "Circles" feature was a nice way to address that in theory, but the execution was really half-baked and the network effect didn't help them.
Yeah, I actually really liked G+... it was a nicer experience for technical follows, etc. Twitter is a firehose and you can only effectively sample a little of it. Facebook is just a mess, I think the groups feature is somewhat nice, but other than that, it's chaotic. They're all trying to compete in wierd ways and making them all less useful.
Mastadon seems interresting, but frankly I'd rather go back to IRC, and see some useful extensions to /whois details for better interconnectivity and profiles, but not so closed and walled garden as slack. Aside, I do still use irc for programming and bbs related stuff.
Mastadon seems interresting, but frankly I'd rather go back to IRC, and see some useful extensions to /whois details for better interconnectivity and profiles, but not so closed and walled garden as slack. Aside, I do still use irc for programming and bbs related stuff.
When Discord was brand new and still a little rough around the edges I had a dream of making a federated IRC-and-Speex-based competitor.
I miss IRC.
I miss IRC.
Earth, the finest place where all living things born to die.
When I was weighing Ring vs Nest security systems, I'm glad I went with Ring.
At this point, people who buy stuff from Google deserve what comes to them.
And all of your cloud hardware investments will be worth nothing
Well this stinks. Guess I will think twice about ever giving money to Google again. The run has been pulled out from under me by Google enough times to consider them worth avoiding.
Does anyone willingly want to go ADT? Home of the three year contract, the long-winded-drawn-out cancellation processes, the constant door-knocking and chasing down to sign up for service, the constant glut of fees and charges when things go wrong...