Why Windows Is So Much Better in the EU [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
Why Windows Is So Much Better in the EU [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOQeKeKNXLU
51 comments
Another argument PRO big-tech regulation considering Microsoft is willing to have two variants of Windows in parallel, the "user respecting" one in the EU, and the "fuck our users" everywhere else.
> the "user respecting" one
More like “fuck users to the extent permissible by law”. It doesn’t count as respect if you’re forced to do it.
More like “fuck users to the extent permissible by law”. It doesn’t count as respect if you’re forced to do it.
Of course, but there's nothing stopping other countries putting similar rules in place. Brasil also has copied a lot of GDPR. If you install Samsung magician it will ask you if you're from EU or Brasil :)
Yes, although I would not call the EU variant of Windows to be "user respecting" at all. Rather "a little bit less fuck our users, but actually still fuck our users".
It really says something when your average Acer laptop's bloatware is less obtrusive than the actual OS vendor's.
You owe it to yourself to use the built-in multibooting capability and have parallel Windows installations on your own PC if you're going to try and keep up.
Says in the video you need a fresh install. Sigh.
Would they get away with that?
One simple but advanced approach is to take a new blank SSD, partition it with a "small" 64GB NTFS volume to begin with, then freshly install Windows 11 to that. There will be plenty of free space to install numerous additional software programs or apps later, as long as you install the software only to your resulting C: volume, while making sure you create well-organized folders on volumes other than C:, to safely store any and all valuable data that you or your software may handle or generate.
With ordinary multipartitioning you can have a number of different volumes like D:, E:, F:, G:, etc on the same or different hardware drives. People should be accustomed to that now that removable drives like USB have been common for so many years. Having a volume other than C: on a Windows PC is not supposed to be confusing like it was when users in the 1990's had to first adjust to the appearance of CDROM drives as D: containing their own separate folder set. It was widely thought, incorrectly for years, that D: would be assigned to a CDROM drive forever. Users already had to become familiar with C: being a HDD and having folders which could each hold more data than a single floppy, plus A: had been challenging enough for floppies to begin with, where most people had no experience ever using a B: floppy drive at all.
OTOH some of the wiser PC users did start out booting to DOS on their A: floppy and directing all valuable data to their B: floppy. Ejecting the B: floppies as they became filled, sometimes even filing the full floppies in physical filing cabinets, then inserting a freshly-formatted floppy into the B: drive to collect more data. A DOS version could then be upgraded by replacing the A: floppy with one that a newer version of DOS had been "installed" on.
So today you would use volumes other than C: to store ALL your valuable data, whether on the same SSD or external.
C: is so special, while also being the most subject to corruption, that it needs to be built and kept in condition to be almost "disposable", to where you can recover from a full backup image or re-install Windows and apps on a whim, as quickly and painlessly as possible. With all your irreplaceable data safely untouched because you make sure that particular type of data is always on some other volume besides C: to begin with. This is nothing new. Some people eventually do come to the conclusion that it does make more sense to have their huge movies taking up all that space in their own "filing cabinet" in their own F:\Videos folder, rather than further bloating their Windows volume deeply tucked away in C:\Users\mindless_user\Videos, or worse, which is where some of the apps are going to shuffle your data into storage in "parts unknown" on C: by default unless you take pre-emptive initiative.
So you don't really want a whole lot of gigabytes for C: when you think about it. Terabytes could really be something to wait through if it went into auto disk checking upon reboot one day.
But you DO want to always install additional software to the C: volume along with Windows, and the default location (usually in C:\Program Files\new_subfolder) is normally ideal for that. Installing Windows apps to other volumes than C: has been possible for decades, still not recommended for the faint at heart who might want to do an occasional backup or recovery.
And you first build C: by freshly installing Windows completely disconnected from the web, using a Local Administrative account only (going without a password can still be considered a secure choice at this point), then meticulously adjusting settings and disabling and removing some things like you would expect with a fresh Windows installation. You may also want to launch Edge so you can adjust its settings before going on the internet too. Even though things will probably update when you do eventually connect to the web, reverting some of your settings anyway, or adding new "features" having undesirable defaults which might need to be addressed.
All of the user-optimized settings you have made to your initial Administrative user are now contained within that one specific-named folder such as C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin.
But any new users you may create on the system will take on the non-optimized settings you started out with by default. Because new users will be based on the contents of the C:\Users\Default folder which is where your passwordless Admin account was generated from to begin with.
If you would optionally like future new users to have their initial settings based on your carefully configured Administrative settings at this point instead, you would have to replace the contents of C:\Users\Default\ with the contents of C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin\ while booted to an alternate volume, or booted to something like the Command Prompt of the Windows Startup ISO.[0] However keep in mind that some of the contents of C:\Users\Default\ might actually be subject to significant future autochanges once exposed to Windows Update if much different default profile parameters are pushed out generally by Microsoft, and there may not be any warning if this occurs.
Before installing any actual software (or maybe even offline drivers) this might also be the first worthwhile time to back up all the work you have accomplished so far. At a time when your Windows is way more useful than it started out when fresh, but still as few gigabytes as it's ever going to be. This is when it's quickest & easiest to backup & recover. Booting to the Command Prompt of the Windows Startup ISO, then using DISM /Capture-Image to comprehensively capture the contents of your idle target partition, in the form of a naturally compressed file-structure-based WIM file. So it's not really a bitwise "partition image" but upon redeployment onto a formatted NTFS volume it ends up acting a similar way, and it's an even more useful recovery compared to bitwise. Might as well consider it a Windows IMage file. You'll have to bone up on DISM only a little bit to accomplish this, becoming familiar with only about 1% of the full DISM capabilities.
Then you can move forward installing your (drivers and) desired software, with further backups of C: you may want as you go along. Make sure you become familiarized with each of the added apps so you can correct any default settings they might have for storing DATA anywhere on your C: volume. Change those default storage locations to some volume other than C: that you control, where you can more sensibly back that data up separately from Windows itself, at different times using different backup methods (even manual data backup becomes easy when stored separately from Windows like this). Plus you may no longer have the drive space limitations you had in the 1990's so you may not even need compression of any kind for very much of anything any more, depending on your situation.
While each app & its settings reside firmly on C: along with Windows, no differently than mainstream users.
Somewhere along the line you will probably connect to the internet, and period-specific updates may compromise recovery repeatability compared to what may be available at a future date, but you can always go back to a previous backup if needed. A 64GB backup or restore requires not that many minutes of data transfer using a SSD. The idea of bloating Windows to the max in Windows Vista after a period of time[1] seems to have first arose in order to discourage rapid comprehensive backups and recoveries which had always been multi-hour ordeals which still functioned unreliably compared to what can be done with great certainty in minutes today.
If you really want to have a repeatable Windows build, you could put icing on the cake by documenting which exact version of Windows you install to begin with, each of the changes to default configuration, installation records of each app install and its settings, etc. With the growing documentation referring to increasingly complete comprehensive backups of your evolving C: volume as you bring it up from scratch in a way that would be drastically less time-consuming during a full recovery than during initial system installation & configuration.
.
[0] Using the Windows 11 Startup ISO booted to the Command Prompt, where your regular established Windows volume is still routinely autodesignated as C: (even when C: is dormant due to alternate booting), you will have to delete or rename the C:\Users\Default folder (to something like C:\Users\DefaultOrig), then using the Robocopy command seems to work with a minimum of permission difficulties:
ROBOCOPY.EXE C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin C:\Users\Default /b /mir /mt /r:0 /w:0 /sj /sl
Use current Windows 11 ISO for this, the /sj & /sl switches were not implemented until relatively recently.
.
[1] Vista was originally released in intentionally-slimmed condition which allowed "upgrading" XP machines that didn't have very much free space, it was plain to see this was reversed as Vista peaked and it was then tweaked to retain cruft that had been originally excluded. This appeared like an attempt to bloat Windows faster than HDD capacity could increase, maintaing the status quo where many customers who could afford it would purchase a new PC and get going again after corruption faster than they could by attempting hours of iffy recovery trying to get back to what they had. Especially if they lost everything on the C: drive at the same time anyway.
.
Edit: If you read this far I can only apologize, sorry, no video ;)
With ordinary multipartitioning you can have a number of different volumes like D:, E:, F:, G:, etc on the same or different hardware drives. People should be accustomed to that now that removable drives like USB have been common for so many years. Having a volume other than C: on a Windows PC is not supposed to be confusing like it was when users in the 1990's had to first adjust to the appearance of CDROM drives as D: containing their own separate folder set. It was widely thought, incorrectly for years, that D: would be assigned to a CDROM drive forever. Users already had to become familiar with C: being a HDD and having folders which could each hold more data than a single floppy, plus A: had been challenging enough for floppies to begin with, where most people had no experience ever using a B: floppy drive at all.
OTOH some of the wiser PC users did start out booting to DOS on their A: floppy and directing all valuable data to their B: floppy. Ejecting the B: floppies as they became filled, sometimes even filing the full floppies in physical filing cabinets, then inserting a freshly-formatted floppy into the B: drive to collect more data. A DOS version could then be upgraded by replacing the A: floppy with one that a newer version of DOS had been "installed" on.
So today you would use volumes other than C: to store ALL your valuable data, whether on the same SSD or external.
C: is so special, while also being the most subject to corruption, that it needs to be built and kept in condition to be almost "disposable", to where you can recover from a full backup image or re-install Windows and apps on a whim, as quickly and painlessly as possible. With all your irreplaceable data safely untouched because you make sure that particular type of data is always on some other volume besides C: to begin with. This is nothing new. Some people eventually do come to the conclusion that it does make more sense to have their huge movies taking up all that space in their own "filing cabinet" in their own F:\Videos folder, rather than further bloating their Windows volume deeply tucked away in C:\Users\mindless_user\Videos, or worse, which is where some of the apps are going to shuffle your data into storage in "parts unknown" on C: by default unless you take pre-emptive initiative.
So you don't really want a whole lot of gigabytes for C: when you think about it. Terabytes could really be something to wait through if it went into auto disk checking upon reboot one day.
But you DO want to always install additional software to the C: volume along with Windows, and the default location (usually in C:\Program Files\new_subfolder) is normally ideal for that. Installing Windows apps to other volumes than C: has been possible for decades, still not recommended for the faint at heart who might want to do an occasional backup or recovery.
And you first build C: by freshly installing Windows completely disconnected from the web, using a Local Administrative account only (going without a password can still be considered a secure choice at this point), then meticulously adjusting settings and disabling and removing some things like you would expect with a fresh Windows installation. You may also want to launch Edge so you can adjust its settings before going on the internet too. Even though things will probably update when you do eventually connect to the web, reverting some of your settings anyway, or adding new "features" having undesirable defaults which might need to be addressed.
All of the user-optimized settings you have made to your initial Administrative user are now contained within that one specific-named folder such as C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin.
But any new users you may create on the system will take on the non-optimized settings you started out with by default. Because new users will be based on the contents of the C:\Users\Default folder which is where your passwordless Admin account was generated from to begin with.
If you would optionally like future new users to have their initial settings based on your carefully configured Administrative settings at this point instead, you would have to replace the contents of C:\Users\Default\ with the contents of C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin\ while booted to an alternate volume, or booted to something like the Command Prompt of the Windows Startup ISO.[0] However keep in mind that some of the contents of C:\Users\Default\ might actually be subject to significant future autochanges once exposed to Windows Update if much different default profile parameters are pushed out generally by Microsoft, and there may not be any warning if this occurs.
Before installing any actual software (or maybe even offline drivers) this might also be the first worthwhile time to back up all the work you have accomplished so far. At a time when your Windows is way more useful than it started out when fresh, but still as few gigabytes as it's ever going to be. This is when it's quickest & easiest to backup & recover. Booting to the Command Prompt of the Windows Startup ISO, then using DISM /Capture-Image to comprehensively capture the contents of your idle target partition, in the form of a naturally compressed file-structure-based WIM file. So it's not really a bitwise "partition image" but upon redeployment onto a formatted NTFS volume it ends up acting a similar way, and it's an even more useful recovery compared to bitwise. Might as well consider it a Windows IMage file. You'll have to bone up on DISM only a little bit to accomplish this, becoming familiar with only about 1% of the full DISM capabilities.
Then you can move forward installing your (drivers and) desired software, with further backups of C: you may want as you go along. Make sure you become familiarized with each of the added apps so you can correct any default settings they might have for storing DATA anywhere on your C: volume. Change those default storage locations to some volume other than C: that you control, where you can more sensibly back that data up separately from Windows itself, at different times using different backup methods (even manual data backup becomes easy when stored separately from Windows like this). Plus you may no longer have the drive space limitations you had in the 1990's so you may not even need compression of any kind for very much of anything any more, depending on your situation.
While each app & its settings reside firmly on C: along with Windows, no differently than mainstream users.
Somewhere along the line you will probably connect to the internet, and period-specific updates may compromise recovery repeatability compared to what may be available at a future date, but you can always go back to a previous backup if needed. A 64GB backup or restore requires not that many minutes of data transfer using a SSD. The idea of bloating Windows to the max in Windows Vista after a period of time[1] seems to have first arose in order to discourage rapid comprehensive backups and recoveries which had always been multi-hour ordeals which still functioned unreliably compared to what can be done with great certainty in minutes today.
If you really want to have a repeatable Windows build, you could put icing on the cake by documenting which exact version of Windows you install to begin with, each of the changes to default configuration, installation records of each app install and its settings, etc. With the growing documentation referring to increasingly complete comprehensive backups of your evolving C: volume as you bring it up from scratch in a way that would be drastically less time-consuming during a full recovery than during initial system installation & configuration.
.
[0] Using the Windows 11 Startup ISO booted to the Command Prompt, where your regular established Windows volume is still routinely autodesignated as C: (even when C: is dormant due to alternate booting), you will have to delete or rename the C:\Users\Default folder (to something like C:\Users\DefaultOrig), then using the Robocopy command seems to work with a minimum of permission difficulties:
ROBOCOPY.EXE C:\Users\you_the_passwordless_admin C:\Users\Default /b /mir /mt /r:0 /w:0 /sj /sl
Use current Windows 11 ISO for this, the /sj & /sl switches were not implemented until relatively recently.
.
[1] Vista was originally released in intentionally-slimmed condition which allowed "upgrading" XP machines that didn't have very much free space, it was plain to see this was reversed as Vista peaked and it was then tweaked to retain cruft that had been originally excluded. This appeared like an attempt to bloat Windows faster than HDD capacity could increase, maintaing the status quo where many customers who could afford it would purchase a new PC and get going again after corruption faster than they could by attempting hours of iffy recovery trying to get back to what they had. Especially if they lost everything on the C: drive at the same time anyway.
.
Edit: If you read this far I can only apologize, sorry, no video ;)
I finally read it all. Funny enough, this is close to what I did for years and years due to having limited C: SSD capacity. Got large SSD, and last reinstall, decided I didn't want to mess with moving folders / backup to D: anymore. TBH it's a load off. Even have an image of relatively fresh windows install. That said, accumulated a lot of changes/tweaks since, some I knew I should have documented but didn't. Just a wierd feeling it's going to be PIA this time. It's just a chore. Thanks for the write up though.
Hum, the way the disk is used in Linux does not seem so complicated after all.
Wait, is Windows Even Worse outside of the EU?
No. Didn't you watch the video?
Currently, it's the same shit everywhere, it's not "better" in the EU yet, till the new digital markets regulations kick in in 2024 which will make Windows better for the EU after that.
Currently, it's the same shit everywhere, it's not "better" in the EU yet, till the new digital markets regulations kick in in 2024 which will make Windows better for the EU after that.
[deleted]
I am in a country where consumer protections are being dismantled on a daily basis - the UK. Linux is still legal but remains to be seen for how long. The government will probably want us to install a backdoor to protect microsoft’s data flow. Pretty rough at the periphery of Europe.
>I am in a country where consumer protections are being dismantled on a daily basis - the UK.
That's what you get when you vote to be freed from the shackles of the biggest regulatory block in the world.
That's what you get when you vote to be freed from the shackles of the biggest regulatory block in the world.
In the Tories' defense, they tried walking it back from the second it became clear that people would actually vote Leave. The UK tried to remain in the EEA, which would give them access to the single market (and presumably maintain some of the EU regulatory rules) but that was roundly rejected by the EU because well, beggars can't be choosers.
There is nothing in the defence of a party that uses lies and populism to gain power in the hopes of people not wanting to do the obviously wrong thing. You play stupid games, ...
Believe me, we know. More and more people want to go back nowadays, but things are still very much a mess that cannot be fixed very quickly.
But hey those blue passports and fishing waters and "are" sovereignty are under "are" control again!
Yeah, must be pretty hard living in the land of "in fear of this scenario I just made up".
Well, we did just have a bill passed that makes it legal for the police to do things like this with protesters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM1ERW-8vJk
The new protest bill would be unthinkable in most Western countries that care about the freedom to protest and freedom of expression. That is a fact. And the trajectory, at least for now, is still in this direction.
Besides, with "Secure" Boot and the recent Google proposal with web attestation, we should be considering any moves towards limiting what runs on our devices (of which there are plenty these days), no matter how minor or limited in scope, as the mortal threat to freedom of computing that they are.
The new protest bill would be unthinkable in most Western countries that care about the freedom to protest and freedom of expression. That is a fact. And the trajectory, at least for now, is still in this direction.
Besides, with "Secure" Boot and the recent Google proposal with web attestation, we should be considering any moves towards limiting what runs on our devices (of which there are plenty these days), no matter how minor or limited in scope, as the mortal threat to freedom of computing that they are.
“Linux is still legal”.
Someone’s been reading too much sci-fi.
Someone’s been reading too much sci-fi.
We have a new law that requires mathematically impossible treatment of end to end encrypted data, which is an unenforceable clause. In a law that actually passed.
We have a lovely law called RIPA that makes non-disclosure of passwords or encryption keys punishable by 2 years in prison (or up to 5 years in certain cases). One of those special cases is "national security" reasons, which is about two steps away from becoming "because someone higher up wants that data".
Banning Linux, if not by malice then by incompetence/apathy, is not as unlikely as you think. Because they sure are, right now, very much incompetent and apathetic.
We have a lovely law called RIPA that makes non-disclosure of passwords or encryption keys punishable by 2 years in prison (or up to 5 years in certain cases). One of those special cases is "national security" reasons, which is about two steps away from becoming "because someone higher up wants that data".
Banning Linux, if not by malice then by incompetence/apathy, is not as unlikely as you think. Because they sure are, right now, very much incompetent and apathetic.
Well, if currently in UK people are/could be arrested for:
- Wearing an orange shirt with a specific logo
- Walking on the street
- Singing a song
- Supporting adowntrodden nation publicly or in a protest
Then it's not so far fetched for that insane government to mandate citizens machines to install some backdoor so they can be constantly monitored.
I remember UK trying to pass bills like 'Porn depicting cunnilingus is illegal'.
If that kind of crap occupies politicians' time, Linux being illegal is most certainly not in the Scifi realm.
- Wearing an orange shirt with a specific logo
- Walking on the street
- Singing a song
- Supporting adowntrodden nation publicly or in a protest
Then it's not so far fetched for that insane government to mandate citizens machines to install some backdoor so they can be constantly monitored.
I remember UK trying to pass bills like 'Porn depicting cunnilingus is illegal'.
If that kind of crap occupies politicians' time, Linux being illegal is most certainly not in the Scifi realm.
Well in most places in the world the police can arrest / detain you for pretty much anything, or they can find/create a reason to arrest you. Question then becomes a) will the charges stick b) will you be able to seek redress afterwards.
Edit: not saying the UK doesn’t have some stupid laws on the books, or that politicians are not adding more stupid laws to the books, just that even in the US, the land of the free, a bad cop or a prosecutor looking for a promotion can make the next few months or even years hell for you if they wanted it.
Edit: not saying the UK doesn’t have some stupid laws on the books, or that politicians are not adding more stupid laws to the books, just that even in the US, the land of the free, a bad cop or a prosecutor looking for a promotion can make the next few months or even years hell for you if they wanted it.
Tbf the porn law was an attempt to standardize porn regulations so they applied to porn sold via the internet the same way they applied to porn sold via traditional formats (DVDs, magazines etc). But the parts of the existing regulations were archaic and horrendously out of date, such as not allowing "depictions of cunnilingus" and they tried to standardise first before updating. I'm sure there were some puritans involved, but for the most part it was a badly handled attempt to fix a loophole in regulations not an active campaign to 'Porn depicting cunnilingus is illegal'.
While we were talking, this came out: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67615719
My point is that the current UK government is a messy bunch of profiteers who will support any possible law that benefits them or their corporate friends. In addition, they and their "technical advisors" both are extremely incompetent.
That's why some version of "Linux is illegal" doesn't belong strictly to the fantasy realm to me. As a matter of fact, if I see that story on the headlines, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.
My point is that the current UK government is a messy bunch of profiteers who will support any possible law that benefits them or their corporate friends. In addition, they and their "technical advisors" both are extremely incompetent.
That's why some version of "Linux is illegal" doesn't belong strictly to the fantasy realm to me. As a matter of fact, if I see that story on the headlines, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.
Publications can be silenced by a superinjunction in the UK.
Not allowed to publicize specific information and not allowed to say they are gagged.
Honestly the UK is one of the few places that treats speech like it matters enough to be kept private. A refreshing change in some ways.
Not allowed to publicize specific information and not allowed to say they are gagged.
Honestly the UK is one of the few places that treats speech like it matters enough to be kept private. A refreshing change in some ways.
Sounds like a lot of people in the US are going to setting their Windows OS to the EU locale.
Ha, enjoy 24H clock, DD-MM-YYYY, comma as the decimal separator, along with the Royale with Cheese :)
What are the disadvantages?
And adopt the metric system? hell no, I'd rather let Microsoft invade every inch of my house!
By the way, Royale with cheese is not actually a thing across all Europe, in Spain it's called "cuarto de libra" which is the actual translation for "Quarter-Pounder", this made the Spanish translation of that Pulp Fiction dialogue somehow nonsense and made most Spaniards realize where the name "cuarto de libra" came from, before that people usually assumed it was some commercial name without any particular meaning.
By the way, Royale with cheese is not actually a thing across all Europe, in Spain it's called "cuarto de libra" which is the actual translation for "Quarter-Pounder", this made the Spanish translation of that Pulp Fiction dialogue somehow nonsense and made most Spaniards realize where the name "cuarto de libra" came from, before that people usually assumed it was some commercial name without any particular meaning.
We've been looking for ways to force the US onto the metric system.
Is a 24 hour clock really that common in the EU? I can use both because it's not exactly hard to read 24 hour time, but I have noticed its kind of rare in the US. I didn't think it was common let alone the norm in Europe though.
Edit: Appreciate all the replies, thank you.
Edit: Appreciate all the replies, thank you.
In Poland in 90s people still used 12h clock slightly more often than 24h (but both were used interchangeably). Nowadays only really old people use 12h by default. Everything's in 24h. It's just much better.
People might still say "meet at 7" instead of 19 for a shortcut it it's obvious from the context, but they will write it as 19:00 and think of it as 19:00.
BTW we never did "am" vs "pm", we had "1..11 morning" -> "12 noon" -> "1..11 afternoon" -> "12 midnight". And for afternoon hours the "afternoon" was usually skipped. So no 12 am/pm confusion. I could never get used to the American am/pm.
People might still say "meet at 7" instead of 19 for a shortcut it it's obvious from the context, but they will write it as 19:00 and think of it as 19:00.
BTW we never did "am" vs "pm", we had "1..11 morning" -> "12 noon" -> "1..11 afternoon" -> "12 midnight". And for afternoon hours the "afternoon" was usually skipped. So no 12 am/pm confusion. I could never get used to the American am/pm.
Kinda weird now that you bring it up. We use 13 and say 1, 14 we call 2, 15 is 3, 16 is 4, 17 is 5, 18 is 6, 19 is 7, 20 is 8, 21 is 9, 22 is 10, 23 is 11 and last but not least 0 means 12.
It seems like a bad idea if I've ever seen 13.
It seems like a bad idea if I've ever seen 13.
Where it matters it's 24 hours. You'll never see event schedules, train timetables, store opening hours etc as "6pm". Only "18:00".
In speech we use 12 hours. But then it's mostly clear from context.
Tbh I don't see how you can live with 12 hour clocks on appliances in the US. I bought a Cuisinart coffee filter and it has the 12 hour clock and an invisible dot that shows am or pm. It can also be set to start on its own at a certain hour. 60% of the time, when I change the settings i get it wrong because who the hell can see that dot?
In speech we use 12 hours. But then it's mostly clear from context.
Tbh I don't see how you can live with 12 hour clocks on appliances in the US. I bought a Cuisinart coffee filter and it has the 12 hour clock and an invisible dot that shows am or pm. It can also be set to start on its own at a certain hour. 60% of the time, when I change the settings i get it wrong because who the hell can see that dot?
24H is definitely the norm when the time is written down or displayed on a screen. But when spoken, people often/mostly say "at 4" rather than "at 16" (I think this varies somewhat from country to country).
In the USA I do get an unfamiliar reaction sometimes when I say I want to get to someplace early, like about "quarter 'til 16" or so.
>Is a 24 hour clock really that common in the EU?
In written and official setting yes, time is always specified in 24H.
But depending on culture and language, in speak most people use the 12H sistem because the AM/PM is implied to be obvious from the context and 24h one has too many syllables: "Let's meet tonight at seven" instead of "Let's meet tonight at nine-teen."
In written and official setting yes, time is always specified in 24H.
But depending on culture and language, in speak most people use the 12H sistem because the AM/PM is implied to be obvious from the context and 24h one has too many syllables: "Let's meet tonight at seven" instead of "Let's meet tonight at nine-teen."
I don't know about the rest of the EU, but in france any digital display is 24 hour yeah (fridge, car, watch, you name it).
in polish, there is no equivalent to "AM" and "PM" shortcuts (and am/pm itself is not used) - that should explain that 24h is the only time format we use in text. You can use 12h orally, as was explained earlier - in most situations it's obvious if it's AM/PM.
Spaniard here. We speak in terms of 1-12 hours but we know to parse 17:00 as 5PM in the spot. As they stated, we write down 17:00 but to speak it aloud to the rest of people we will just say 'five o'clock in the evening'.
> We speak in terms of 1-12 hours but we know to parse 17:00 as 5PM in the spot.
This is how it is for me as well, once you learn 24h time it's about as simple as can be, and I learned when I was a kid. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere where 24h time was the norm for writing/displaying though - or maybe I just didn't notice because I'm fine with it.
This is how it is for me as well, once you learn 24h time it's about as simple as can be, and I learned when I was a kid. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere where 24h time was the norm for writing/displaying though - or maybe I just didn't notice because I'm fine with it.
In my more than four decades of life, I have yet to learn AM and PM for long enough for it to stick. So, yes.
Will I get my seconds counter back at least?
It's still there right now if you enable it.
Thats not very freedom of you
For me interest, that I remember Windows 95, special, pan-European edition, which was really better suited for usage in Europe, with right coding tables, with better fonts for European languages, with more possible keyboards.
It was possible to add many of these things into American edition, but sure, was convenient to just buy pan-European and have all things already done.
After that I switched to programming, and I don't hear much on localized versions (sough, exists versions, much more localized, with all interface and help non-English).
But now I feel some care from EU, as they pushed on standard interfaces (begins with micro-USB/USB-C for mobile chargers) and on exclude some programs from standard distribution, etc.
Admittedly, this EU activity is not always good, it has to be constantly monitored, but overall it looks like a more realistic way to slow down corporate lawlessness than through non-governmental organizations or through legal procedures.
It was possible to add many of these things into American edition, but sure, was convenient to just buy pan-European and have all things already done.
After that I switched to programming, and I don't hear much on localized versions (sough, exists versions, much more localized, with all interface and help non-English).
But now I feel some care from EU, as they pushed on standard interfaces (begins with micro-USB/USB-C for mobile chargers) and on exclude some programs from standard distribution, etc.
Admittedly, this EU activity is not always good, it has to be constantly monitored, but overall it looks like a more realistic way to slow down corporate lawlessness than through non-governmental organizations or through legal procedures.
I don't seem to experience any of the cons listed in the video, although I'm using a modified and locked down (i.e. tamed) version of W10, not 11.