I built something that changed my friend group's social fabric(blog.danpetrolito.xyz)
blog.danpetrolito.xyz
I built something that changed my friend group's social fabric
https://blog.danpetrolito.xyz/i-built-something-that-changed-my-friend-gro-social-fabric/
275 comments
This is something I've always wanted to write about, and I imagine that someday I'll end up with a long article, but basically, it's the idea that the internet used to be offline by default, and now it's online by default.
People used to be offline by default. You had to “connect to the internet.” Open MSN, go into forums and check the latest unread messages, come back from a concert and manually upload the photos to your Fotolog or wherever. Now it's the opposite. We are online by default. The expectation is that we're always connected and respond quickly. Going to a sports event or a concert? You have to post a story to Instagram from that very place, not when you get home. Someone sends you an email or a WhatsApp message? You’re expected to reply as soon as possible.
That’s what I miss most about the internet—the idea and the feeling that I would go online when I wanted to, not that I lived inside the internet 24/7.
People used to be offline by default. You had to “connect to the internet.” Open MSN, go into forums and check the latest unread messages, come back from a concert and manually upload the photos to your Fotolog or wherever. Now it's the opposite. We are online by default. The expectation is that we're always connected and respond quickly. Going to a sports event or a concert? You have to post a story to Instagram from that very place, not when you get home. Someone sends you an email or a WhatsApp message? You’re expected to reply as soon as possible.
That’s what I miss most about the internet—the idea and the feeling that I would go online when I wanted to, not that I lived inside the internet 24/7.
Like many who lived through this inversion I can absolutely relate.
I've culled my notifications substantially and my life is better for it. But I miss that feeling of firing up AIM and seeking out someone to chat with. Or someone spotting my arrival and immediately saying hi.
I realized yesterday that I don't use phones like others do. I want to be in airplane mode whenever my phone is locked. Not Do Not Disturb mode. I want my modem off. I don't want any phone calls, ever. I'll get to your messages when my flow state has subsided.
But when I unlock the phone, I want the modem to automatically come back on. I am subliminally tapping into the heyday of AIM. I'm expressing "i'm free. what's up?!".
Problem is, it's not an occasion to anyone else out there. Most people always want to be available and I have a hard time understanding why.
I've culled my notifications substantially and my life is better for it. But I miss that feeling of firing up AIM and seeking out someone to chat with. Or someone spotting my arrival and immediately saying hi.
I realized yesterday that I don't use phones like others do. I want to be in airplane mode whenever my phone is locked. Not Do Not Disturb mode. I want my modem off. I don't want any phone calls, ever. I'll get to your messages when my flow state has subsided.
But when I unlock the phone, I want the modem to automatically come back on. I am subliminally tapping into the heyday of AIM. I'm expressing "i'm free. what's up?!".
Problem is, it's not an occasion to anyone else out there. Most people always want to be available and I have a hard time understanding why.
> I realized yesterday that I don't use phones like others do. I want to be in airplane mode whenever my phone is locked. Not Do Not Disturb mode. I want my modem off. I don't want any phone calls, ever. I'll get to your messages when my flow state has subsided.
You're not alone. Here's how I solved it: Last year I really wanted a new smartphone just for the better camera. My existing phone from 2018 was still working fine, but the camera sucked.
So I bought a used, but only few months old, new smartphone.
And I never got it hooked up to the cell network (i.e. no SIM card). I now typically carry two phones on me. The old one is for texts/phones. The new one is for everything else. A clean separation. At times when I do groceries or something, I leave the SIM phone in the car so no one can contact me.
When the old phone finally dies, I'll just find the cheapest smartphone to replace it and maintain the separation.
For app notifications, I use the Buzzkill app to keep them down. For a long time I had it set up such that I would not get any notification for texts - other than a vibration. No sound. No flashing LED. And no notification in the task bar. If I wanted to know if I'd received a text, I'd have to open the app. I strongly encourage this set up.
Before I got a smartphone, I would turn my cell phone on only for emergencies and the occasional coordination (picking someone up - call him and let him know I'm downstairs). I told people they wouldn't be able to reach me on my cell phone, and to call my home phone (landline, and then VoIP) if they needed me.
Then I finally got a smartphone. I still have that home phone. But boy, I often tell people that my life is definitely worse because of that smartphone. I like the portable computing device, camera and GPS. Just not the phone part!
You're not alone. Here's how I solved it: Last year I really wanted a new smartphone just for the better camera. My existing phone from 2018 was still working fine, but the camera sucked.
So I bought a used, but only few months old, new smartphone.
And I never got it hooked up to the cell network (i.e. no SIM card). I now typically carry two phones on me. The old one is for texts/phones. The new one is for everything else. A clean separation. At times when I do groceries or something, I leave the SIM phone in the car so no one can contact me.
When the old phone finally dies, I'll just find the cheapest smartphone to replace it and maintain the separation.
For app notifications, I use the Buzzkill app to keep them down. For a long time I had it set up such that I would not get any notification for texts - other than a vibration. No sound. No flashing LED. And no notification in the task bar. If I wanted to know if I'd received a text, I'd have to open the app. I strongly encourage this set up.
Before I got a smartphone, I would turn my cell phone on only for emergencies and the occasional coordination (picking someone up - call him and let him know I'm downstairs). I told people they wouldn't be able to reach me on my cell phone, and to call my home phone (landline, and then VoIP) if they needed me.
Then I finally got a smartphone. I still have that home phone. But boy, I often tell people that my life is definitely worse because of that smartphone. I like the portable computing device, camera and GPS. Just not the phone part!
I have been considering this. I even came up with a name: Good Phone, Bad Phone. Your experience is instructive, thank you. Other than the additional cost, I think it has lots of upside.
I daily drive a Pixel on GrapheneOS and most of what I install is from F-Droid repos. I'm wondering if I should just de-SIM that one to make it 'Good Phone' and my 'Bad Phone' should just be a Light Phone or maybe something more featureful.
I daily drive a Pixel on GrapheneOS and most of what I install is from F-Droid repos. I'm wondering if I should just de-SIM that one to make it 'Good Phone' and my 'Bad Phone' should just be a Light Phone or maybe something more featureful.
I should also add: I don't install apps like Signal/Whatsapp on the SIMless phone. No one should be able to call me on it. Period.
I do have a mail app on it, and it checks mail only when I tell it to (i.e. not running in the background giving me email notifications).
At home, I keep the phone with the SIM in one room. I can use the SIMless phone around the house and not worry about pings.
I do have a mail app on it, and it checks mail only when I tell it to (i.e. not running in the background giving me email notifications).
At home, I keep the phone with the SIM in one room. I can use the SIMless phone around the house and not worry about pings.
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Definitely of a similar mindset... my text notification chime is about as subdued as I can make it... I mean I don't want to miss a text entirely, but would really rather push it all off. I disabled email notifications and other app notifications entirely. I wouldn't disable my actual phone calls, though I don't like that nearly half the calls I get are either spam, or bots notifying my of dr appts.
It's all gotten so dysfunctional as a whole. My SO gets on Tiktok live chats (whatever they're called) and I'll get into an X space now and then. Once in a great while, I'll pull up IRC. I really do miss the days of AIM an Yahoo Messenger chat groups though. It was fun. I also miss the locality of BBSing back when. With the internet, we tend to segregate based on interest, and you lose the local aspects and actual interaction, get togethers, etc.
It's all gotten so dysfunctional as a whole. My SO gets on Tiktok live chats (whatever they're called) and I'll get into an X space now and then. Once in a great while, I'll pull up IRC. I really do miss the days of AIM an Yahoo Messenger chat groups though. It was fun. I also miss the locality of BBSing back when. With the internet, we tend to segregate based on interest, and you lose the local aspects and actual interaction, get togethers, etc.
This. I don't even want my computer to send data / check email unless I tell it to. And I ESPECIALLY don't want it sending telemetry / receiving ads asynchronously.
> This. I don't even want my computer to send data / check email unless I tell it to. And I ESPECIALLY don't want it sending telemetry / receiving ads asynchronously.
This should be the job of the OS, but ironically the OS is the biggest offender.
Should be solvable by a strong firewall/local proxy that blocks everything by default, only allows browser, and has an easy and convenient way to allow some outgoing traffic temporarily.
This should be the job of the OS, but ironically the OS is the biggest offender.
Should be solvable by a strong firewall/local proxy that blocks everything by default, only allows browser, and has an easy and convenient way to allow some outgoing traffic temporarily.
This is basically how computers in the 80s and part of the 90s worked.
I wonder if we could really bring back modems and BBS. How could we make that happen again? I feel like with modern internet, we’re stuck in this streaming TV, social media daze.
I wonder if we could really bring back modems and BBS. How could we make that happen again? I feel like with modern internet, we’re stuck in this streaming TV, social media daze.
They never really went away, just sort of evolved, but a lot of the old ways were lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
Impulse: We Resurrected Underground 1990s BBS Software in 2025.. With Docker [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44422006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
Impulse: We Resurrected Underground 1990s BBS Software in 2025.. With Docker [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44422006
Phone makers keep touting AI features in their phones, but I haven't seen anyone applying it to notifications.
Here's my holy grail: the phone should, using on-device processing determine whether I want to be disturbed with a given notification now, when I'm not busy, at a specified time of day, or never.
Here's my holy grail: the phone should, using on-device processing determine whether I want to be disturbed with a given notification now, when I'm not busy, at a specified time of day, or never.
Here reveals the crux of the engagement economy. You want to use your phone less and more meaningfully. EVERY SINGLE COMPANY wants the exact opposite for their bottom line.
apple intelligence does this. in fact the apple intelligence notification features are the only somewhat useful things it does.
you gonna sacrifice a shitton of privacy for a very small convenience here…
I wrote that I want it to use on-device processing. I probably should have added that I don't want it to subsequently send the data used for that to the vendor or a third party, but I thought it was implied.
Their request could be handled by a slightly complex ML model, usage over time by dumb if else statements in an on device program, or trivially by Ollama on a mid computer hosted on a home server.
The default doesn't have to be that all the data must be fed up to a company, computers can actually do a lot without it coming from someone else's server.
The default doesn't have to be that all the data must be fed up to a company, computers can actually do a lot without it coming from someone else's server.
Privacy is long dead and you are not getting it back. If someone wants to buy comprehensive data about your personal life there is literally nothing you can do about it. The data broker economy is absolutely booming and no one is even making a token effort to curtail it. The government that is supposed to stop it wants it for themselves so they won't ever do anything.
One “low tech” solution would be to get a Faraday cage bag and out your phone in it when not in use
The Internet used to be semi literally a place you went - a desktop in the corner of some room, not central on a desk, not in your pocket. And with a ritual to access it on top of that and the dial up sounds and all.
It's more present but also more invisible now, yeah.
It's more present but also more invisible now, yeah.
It's funny -- before social media, I was more likely able to go find someone to chat with on IRC, a Usenet group, or some purpose-built forum. I knew where my friends were (ICQ, then AIM, then Skype, then GChat), and it worked.
Now, it's all fragmented into 1000 Discord servers, and who has the time to dig through it all?
Now, it's all fragmented into 1000 Discord servers, and who has the time to dig through it all?
I agree, I feel similarly. There are now 25+ car groups on fbook that I have to subscribe to, because the main web-board / usenet group for that car doesn't get anywhere near as much traffic as it used to. Major vendors are providing support on fbook - which sucks.
See, I'm the opposite. I've got a Discord server, which are very much "where my friends are": If I make an acquaintance (or any of my friends do), they get added to the server. Some stick around, and get woven into the social fiber. Some never come back, and eventually get removed from the server during our annual purge. There's maybe 10-20 active people (i.e., people we see at least a couple times a month), a handful of regulars that are that multiple times a week, and then maybe twice all that again of people we hear from once in a blue moon. If I want to chat, I'll hop in voice. If I want to share something I found, I'll stick it in a text channel.
There's still plenty of communities on the internet. It's just that the communities worth belonging to are not wide open to the public. Community building does not scale.
There's still plenty of communities on the internet. It's just that the communities worth belonging to are not wide open to the public. Community building does not scale.
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honestly ive been thinking about this stuff too. a hypothetical forum you could only log on to read if you idled on a certain page for 15 mins or something would probably have a lot higher standard of discussion and be a lot better for peoples lives, for example.
The most minute of barriers requiring you to deliberately and consciously join and leave...
The most minute of barriers requiring you to deliberately and consciously join and leave...
Reminds me of https://diewithme.online/ which I just learned about.
Not exactly the same as your idea, but definitely in the same vein of "only available under a certain condition"
Not exactly the same as your idea, but definitely in the same vein of "only available under a certain condition"
This is most definitely an invitation to abuse your phone’s battery, but at the same time I absolutely love this idea. It’s hilarious to imagine someone eagerly awaiting the chance to log onto the site as the battery dips from 8, to 7, to 6. “Just a couple more minutes…”
The SomethingAwful forums have been $10 to join since 2001. If you get banned, that's another $10 needed for a new account. Has worked pretty well for 24 years.
It's wild, and absolutely worth writing about, that at some point in recent years, the concept of "AFK" basically ceased to exist.
Yes, we aren't technically near a keyboard most of the time today, but we are never AFK in a conceptual sense. Even when sleeping.
Yes, we aren't technically near a keyboard most of the time today, but we are never AFK in a conceptual sense. Even when sleeping.
I play badminton, which has games that are about ten minutes long. I've noticed an uptick in the number of times I've had to stop and wait for someone I'm playing with to read a message on their smartwatch. I'm terminally online, but I can disconnect long enough for a game or a film - I seem to be increasingly in the minority.
Honestly I don't hang out with people like that. If you can't put down your Distractify 9000 to play a game with me, then clearly I am not very interesting to you and it's better for both of us to do more engaging activities with more engaging people.
People bristle at this sometimes- they'll ask why we don't hang out as much and I'll explain- and like, I get it, nobody likes feeling called out or criticized, and I don't even mean it as criticism, not really. Your behavior in reaching for your phone tells me that you have more important things to do, and I don't want to obstruct you from them. If those things aren't actually more important, well, then your priorities are clearly out of wack and you should sort that out for yourself.
Like just... stop responding to stimuli. Put things in the order in which they are meaningful to you, and then keep that. You're a conscious being, act like one.
People bristle at this sometimes- they'll ask why we don't hang out as much and I'll explain- and like, I get it, nobody likes feeling called out or criticized, and I don't even mean it as criticism, not really. Your behavior in reaching for your phone tells me that you have more important things to do, and I don't want to obstruct you from them. If those things aren't actually more important, well, then your priorities are clearly out of wack and you should sort that out for yourself.
Like just... stop responding to stimuli. Put things in the order in which they are meaningful to you, and then keep that. You're a conscious being, act like one.
I think there's a mismatch of expectations which is a solid reason to pursue friendships elsewhere. I think the other party in scenarios like this probably assumes (incorrectly of course) that youappreciate the break so you can check your phone too.
There's definitely something borked with our brains though. I have had multiple people express surprise when I tell them that I will not check any notifications when I'm driving even if I'm stopped at a traffic light for a minute or more. I just don't want to be distracted, and yeah it takes conscious effort sometimes, but it does get easier once you learn from experience that the world will not fall apart if you check your messages later.
I even internally reframe it as future candy, which makes me engage more positively with async interactions. But practicing delayed gratification is hard.
There's definitely something borked with our brains though. I have had multiple people express surprise when I tell them that I will not check any notifications when I'm driving even if I'm stopped at a traffic light for a minute or more. I just don't want to be distracted, and yeah it takes conscious effort sometimes, but it does get easier once you learn from experience that the world will not fall apart if you check your messages later.
I even internally reframe it as future candy, which makes me engage more positively with async interactions. But practicing delayed gratification is hard.
In the UK, "stopped with the engine running" counts as "driving" for the purposes of smartphone use — no using your phone when stopped at the lights.
Not that the rule stops some people from doing it anyway, of course.
Not that the rule stops some people from doing it anyway, of course.
I think it's a similar thing in Ontario, Canada (where I live), you can be fined for checking on your phone even at red lights, though there are some caveats for "operating the car" related things (for example if you're using nav on your phone).
I will let android auto read text messages and/or dictate to me and do phone calls at times - but it has to be hands-free and traffic not too bad. I almost never do anything with my phone at a red light.
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> Now it's the opposite. We are online by default. The expectation is that we're always connected and respond quickly.
I've been reading this on HN for years but I've always been puzzled by it because it's both so different from my personal experiences and seems so divergent from the types who hang out on HN.
From around my mid-20s the expectation to be always on in any of my friend groups just evaporated. Until we hit our 30s there was still a general expectation to read socials after work hours but even then as we got older many of us were too drained after work to do much. Then once we hit our 30s the expectation was that our partners, homes, and often kids took precedence. None of my friends are posting Stories on Instagram with their newborns.
Now some of my friends do still love being always on their socials but a lot of these friends of mine when not on socials are constantly hanging out at social events or on calls with each other. They'd probably be the neighborhood gossips in an era before telephony.
So I'm curious: is this a real problem or is this a bit of a strawman? What sort of social pressure do you actually receive to be always on your socials? Is this related to going on dates?
I've been reading this on HN for years but I've always been puzzled by it because it's both so different from my personal experiences and seems so divergent from the types who hang out on HN.
From around my mid-20s the expectation to be always on in any of my friend groups just evaporated. Until we hit our 30s there was still a general expectation to read socials after work hours but even then as we got older many of us were too drained after work to do much. Then once we hit our 30s the expectation was that our partners, homes, and often kids took precedence. None of my friends are posting Stories on Instagram with their newborns.
Now some of my friends do still love being always on their socials but a lot of these friends of mine when not on socials are constantly hanging out at social events or on calls with each other. They'd probably be the neighborhood gossips in an era before telephony.
So I'm curious: is this a real problem or is this a bit of a strawman? What sort of social pressure do you actually receive to be always on your socials? Is this related to going on dates?
Back then Broadcast/Multicast (1 to all/1 to many) was expensive. It quite often resulted in routers and switches catching fire. The chips were too slow.
A side effect was we didn't have to deal with what Claude Shannon told us happens if everyone is broadcasting - noise increases - no one is really heard - people speak louder - people repeat messages - everyone is getting their energy drained.
Today Broadcast is free. And thats what we see happening.
A side effect was we didn't have to deal with what Claude Shannon told us happens if everyone is broadcasting - noise increases - no one is really heard - people speak louder - people repeat messages - everyone is getting their energy drained.
Today Broadcast is free. And thats what we see happening.
We used to relay messages in a mailbox once per day and got all new ones (called "Maustausch" https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MausNet). It was pretty cheap because all group and personal messages came in one compressed batch and you had stuff to read and respond for a day. The BBSes exchanged all messages in a tree call hierarchy, you could reach everybody within that one day hop.
> You’re expected to reply as soon as possible.
I am happy to disappoint these expectations. I feel no pressure from it whatsoever. Of course, I'm of the age of default offline, so that has a lot to do with it. Remember coming home to a "machine" to check messages? That was glorious even if it too had a glowing red dot that wanted your attention.
The always on mentality is not worth it and quite tiresome, figuratively and literally. I know it's different for women, but I've met a few that are really into the always on concept where they never leave the house without full war paint because "you never know who you might meet". I'm exhausted just thinking about it.
I am happy to disappoint these expectations. I feel no pressure from it whatsoever. Of course, I'm of the age of default offline, so that has a lot to do with it. Remember coming home to a "machine" to check messages? That was glorious even if it too had a glowing red dot that wanted your attention.
The always on mentality is not worth it and quite tiresome, figuratively and literally. I know it's different for women, but I've met a few that are really into the always on concept where they never leave the house without full war paint because "you never know who you might meet". I'm exhausted just thinking about it.
> The expectation is that we're always connected and respond quickly
As someone who twenty years ago published his XMPP presence to his web page (http://serendipity.ruwenzori.net/index.php/2006/02/27/jabber...) among other oversharing excesses, I have now swung opposite: online presence indicator is the first functionality I disable when I join any sort of forum and my tablet is almost always silent... Asynchronous interrupts least and unbroken concentration is most valuable, so asynchronous mostly - with exceptions for eligible professional contacts and sentimentally close people.
As someone who twenty years ago published his XMPP presence to his web page (http://serendipity.ruwenzori.net/index.php/2006/02/27/jabber...) among other oversharing excesses, I have now swung opposite: online presence indicator is the first functionality I disable when I join any sort of forum and my tablet is almost always silent... Asynchronous interrupts least and unbroken concentration is most valuable, so asynchronous mostly - with exceptions for eligible professional contacts and sentimentally close people.
Usable mobile data that was fast enough was one of the tipping points, meeting with the first smartphone that was for the many, the iPhone around the same time.
No matter where you are, everyone is always connected...
I have a theory: what was scarce once, is not anymore.
Social networks make people tired/satisfied/overwhelmed of "interacting online", and in the worst possible way: passively, not producing anything and just consuming it.
It sucks.
Social networks make people tired/satisfied/overwhelmed of "interacting online", and in the worst possible way: passively, not producing anything and just consuming it.
It sucks.
The “satisfied” part is the most harmful imo. This is what causes lack of actual social interaction and real friendships. Loneliness is on the rise as friendships are on a decline, this is a byproduct of social media gratification
The other more obviously negative components tired/overwhelmed are more of a hangover effect people have after over indulgence. But they’re addicted so ultimately always go back for more (most people).
It’s weird for me to witness as I never indulged in social media and could always see it for what it is. I watched my wife use and just classified it as a huge waste of time (and had some not so fun, “get off your phone” conversations along the way). Some people are finally coming around to it but a lot of damage has been done and a lot of social fabric has eroded.
The other more obviously negative components tired/overwhelmed are more of a hangover effect people have after over indulgence. But they’re addicted so ultimately always go back for more (most people).
It’s weird for me to witness as I never indulged in social media and could always see it for what it is. I watched my wife use and just classified it as a huge waste of time (and had some not so fun, “get off your phone” conversations along the way). Some people are finally coming around to it but a lot of damage has been done and a lot of social fabric has eroded.
I'm not sure the tired/overwhelmed hangover effect is necessarily from social media. I like to think most of my time spent on the internet is productive,reading documentation and cs articles/papers for the most part and i still get that hangover feeling.
That’s mental fatigue from learning and being engaged on a topic for a duration. Maybe some additional from screen time/blue light fatigue. But it used to happen after studying for hours pre-internet.
Just my hunch, but post student life, I think many people are not actually using the internet regularly the way you describe. Only a small percentage of people are doing productive tasks, it’s mostly leisurely consumption
Just my hunch, but post student life, I think many people are not actually using the internet regularly the way you describe. Only a small percentage of people are doing productive tasks, it’s mostly leisurely consumption
There's a noticeable difference to me between exercising my thinking skills and feeling mentally exhausted versus consuming lots of media and feeling "hungover".
I get that exhausted feeling after any hard day at work. On the other hand, scrolling through reels for about 30 minutes gives me a headache. If I spend over an hour on YouTube, I also get a similar feeling, but only if that time was spent watching many different videos. If I watched one 2 hour video, I feel fine.
I get that exhausted feeling after any hard day at work. On the other hand, scrolling through reels for about 30 minutes gives me a headache. If I spend over an hour on YouTube, I also get a similar feeling, but only if that time was spent watching many different videos. If I watched one 2 hour video, I feel fine.
Also that a bunch of the time you're contacted by a random online it eventually leads to them trying to get your credit card info.
True in real life, too. Whenever someone random comes up to me and tries to engage in a conversation, my guard goes up because 9 times out of 10, they are trying to sell me something or scam me. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be a woman, where your “safety” alarms are also sounding.
Spontaneous, innocent chit chat is dead, both online and offline because everyone’s hustling now.
Spontaneous, innocent chit chat is dead, both online and offline because everyone’s hustling now.
Counter example: yesterday I took the train and ferry from london to dublin. Trains are a great way to meet new people, especially if you're sitting facing each other. Person opposite me was interested in the maths book my son was reading. Turns out he's an interrailing applied maths student from Scandinavia. We had a great chat for hours and exchanged numbers. My faith in humanity is not dead yet.
Counter-counter example. When my wife was new to the city she took a bus ride and a girl randomly made contact with her. They hit it off and talked for the whole ride. My wife thought this girl sounds really nice, they actually got into deep conversations, and wanted to exchange numbers so they could hang out some time. Then she asked if she had heard about the book of mormons…
Sorry to hear that. But I was responding to the comment that "Spontaneous, innocent chit chat is dead, both online and offline because everyone’s hustling now". Just one counter example is needed to prove that statement false. Of course, maybe my new contact will betray me and turn out to be a proselytising fundamentalist, but not yet...
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Lol, I got contacted by a stranger and even after like a year of occasional contact I was waiting for the scam to trigger :D
Taking more time away from it and coming back to it gives perspective on what to interact with, and what not to interact with.
Seeking novelty and fulfillment from scrolling vertically are all individually and collectively patterns, including notifications.
Creating is different than consuming when it comes to screens. Separating consuming onto a separate consuming device physically helps.
Seeking novelty and fulfillment from scrolling vertically are all individually and collectively patterns, including notifications.
Creating is different than consuming when it comes to screens. Separating consuming onto a separate consuming device physically helps.
It's the social equivalent of eating potato chips until you're stuffed but never actually feeling nourished.
> It sucks.
It sucks because the social aspect of social media has been bent and twisted into squeezing every bit of money out of it. In some regards, people are being forced to consume. Companies do anything they can to manipulate users into continual consumption because it generates money for them.
Even worse now? Companies are rewarding people when users interact with their content. Now people are enticed to create content that purposely angers people so they comment on their content.
I've deleted all of my accounts now - it was just too fatiguing to try and weed your way through the constant pushing of content to get you to watch or interact with instead of what YOU want to see or watch. YouTube is notorious for that. How many times have you gone to the site and instead of searching for something you went there for, you get completely sidelined into something because they present you with a ton of videos that fit what you're interested in?
In the immortal words of Joshua: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"
It sucks because the social aspect of social media has been bent and twisted into squeezing every bit of money out of it. In some regards, people are being forced to consume. Companies do anything they can to manipulate users into continual consumption because it generates money for them.
Even worse now? Companies are rewarding people when users interact with their content. Now people are enticed to create content that purposely angers people so they comment on their content.
I've deleted all of my accounts now - it was just too fatiguing to try and weed your way through the constant pushing of content to get you to watch or interact with instead of what YOU want to see or watch. YouTube is notorious for that. How many times have you gone to the site and instead of searching for something you went there for, you get completely sidelined into something because they present you with a ton of videos that fit what you're interested in?
In the immortal words of Joshua: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"
> I've deleted all of my accounts now
except for this one
except for this one
Yeah, and the channels that are available... well, here's an example. I'm a member of a couple of professional WhatsApp groups... both of which are so notification heavy that I've permanently muted them, and therefore never visit and as a result derive no benefit from. And, at least for me, there's something about WhatsApp that makes it unamenable to the kind of dip in and out interaction you used to get with IM services. I want to be there when I'm there and not disturbed when I'm not.
That's the problem with phone apps. They either spam you with notifications or you forget to open them. Desktop IRC clients were more available for passive checking whenever you glanced at the window, but out of the way otherwise.
You can treat whatsapp as an irc client, it's all in your head :)
I have multiple friend groups on whatsapp - i just check them once in a while to see if anything interesting was posted. All the chat apps I'm on are muted and the mute is muted again to make sure.
I have multiple friend groups on whatsapp - i just check them once in a while to see if anything interesting was posted. All the chat apps I'm on are muted and the mute is muted again to make sure.
Yes, If you purposely turn off all notifications on your phone, and/or live on DND mode 24/7, you quickly learn to adapt to this world where using the internet is a deliberate action. Sanity sets in: you are deciding when to use your phone or computer, not an algorithm, or other people. You’re back in the driver’s seat, like it’s 2002 again! It’s very freeing.
I remember the early days of Skype and Google talk, calling random strangers and… actually having a conversation with them. I remember they were always confused and surprised to get a random call from a stranger, but were almost always happy to chat anyway!
Sounds exactly like ham radio operators.
Heh, I came here to say this when I saw the top level thread that started this comment. As far as GP is concerned:
> I remember they were always confused and surprised to get a random call from a stranger
That's probably the only thing different about Ham radio. Random calls are kinda the norm :-)
I got my license less than a year ago, and in some ways, it reminds me of the "old internet"
* Way fewer ads. In fact, in ham radio, you aren't allowed to advertise. Maybe the absolute best thing about it. Without a legislative change, there will never be (legal) ads.
* Trolls haven't taken over. If you're an ass, you could lose your license. No ham wants to lose their license.
* It's as technical as you want to make it. You can go DEEP into technical things (I haven't even scratched the surface there). You can also just get a hotspot and a handheld for a few hundred bucks and be talking to people across the world after an evenings work of configuring it all.
If you want to talk to strangers who want to talk back... and who, for the most part, aren't jerks -- get your ham radio license.
Bonuses (above and beyond the old internet):
Amateur radio clubs are everywhere. They are filled with nerds who love the hobby. They can be _very_ social -- so there is opportunity for plenty of In Real Life (IRL) interaction.
Yes, it's mostly guys, mostly over 50, and (in my experience) mostly caucasian. If you are intimidated by that, that's totally fair. But, give them a chance -- check out your local club. Most I've visited are _very_ welcoming... and they want nothing more than to get more people interested in the hobby.
[edit: formatting bullets]
> I remember they were always confused and surprised to get a random call from a stranger
That's probably the only thing different about Ham radio. Random calls are kinda the norm :-)
I got my license less than a year ago, and in some ways, it reminds me of the "old internet"
* Way fewer ads. In fact, in ham radio, you aren't allowed to advertise. Maybe the absolute best thing about it. Without a legislative change, there will never be (legal) ads.
* Trolls haven't taken over. If you're an ass, you could lose your license. No ham wants to lose their license.
* It's as technical as you want to make it. You can go DEEP into technical things (I haven't even scratched the surface there). You can also just get a hotspot and a handheld for a few hundred bucks and be talking to people across the world after an evenings work of configuring it all.
If you want to talk to strangers who want to talk back... and who, for the most part, aren't jerks -- get your ham radio license.
Bonuses (above and beyond the old internet):
Amateur radio clubs are everywhere. They are filled with nerds who love the hobby. They can be _very_ social -- so there is opportunity for plenty of In Real Life (IRL) interaction.
Yes, it's mostly guys, mostly over 50, and (in my experience) mostly caucasian. If you are intimidated by that, that's totally fair. But, give them a chance -- check out your local club. Most I've visited are _very_ welcoming... and they want nothing more than to get more people interested in the hobby.
[edit: formatting bullets]
Wait hold on, I think you're genuinely onto something here.
I've used the username "donatj" basically everywhere since the late 1990s with just a couple exceptions.
Dude beat me to it on Skype, I called him just out of the blue and had a nice conversation with him, lived in Denmark as I recall. Really friendly guy. I can't imagine doing that now though, let alone the person on the other end actually picking up.
Dude beat me to it on Skype, I called him just out of the blue and had a nice conversation with him, lived in Denmark as I recall. Really friendly guy. I can't imagine doing that now though, let alone the person on the other end actually picking up.
Huh, coming from an IRC and email background I have the opposite reaction. Rather than having to wait until someone is online it is much nicer to just type to them and they'll respond once they can. Everyone is open all the time!
Some people used AIM like this as well, at least I did. I left my computer on all the time, so I was always online.
I was in college during the peak of AIM and it was useful to know who was at their computer or not, which I believe was still viable. Around meal times, we could quickly scan for who was around to see if they wanted to head down to the cafeteria. If they weren’t around, there was no point it asking. For time sensitive messages, online status matters.
I was in college during the peak of AIM and it was useful to know who was at their computer or not, which I believe was still viable. Around meal times, we could quickly scan for who was around to see if they wanted to head down to the cafeteria. If they weren’t around, there was no point it asking. For time sensitive messages, online status matters.
AIM also had useful states. If you were away for a decent chunk of time (And you could configure what that amount of time was!) it would mark you as idle, and you could set custom away messages (That were actually visible) so folks could know why you were away, or more realistically, what song was on your mind.
Nowadays the status is completely meaningless. It's a small dot that doesn't accurately reflect your status, and if you choose to set a message, most of the apps hide it anyway.
Nowadays the status is completely meaningless. It's a small dot that doesn't accurately reflect your status, and if you choose to set a message, most of the apps hide it anyway.
Disagree. There are people open to chitchat right now. They are just young. We just grew old, most of us are having families, and it would be weird to idly chitchat instead of playing your family role.
Discord indicates who's online with the green dot.
It can be modified to never show you're online, or show 'away' or something, but it's similar. It also displays how many are online in a channel on a server, and then you can open the list.
Despite that, however, it still feels 'different' to how it was, but I think we're also 'different'. Being (significantly) older now I have more responsibilities and pressures for my time so I'm less likely (like zero chance) to be sitting idle waiting for random chats.
We'd have to ask those who are, now, the age we were then - but then they also have no frame of reference. My son is often chatting to his friends online, but I think they're exclusively friends from meatspace rather than electronic strangers.
It can be modified to never show you're online, or show 'away' or something, but it's similar. It also displays how many are online in a channel on a server, and then you can open the list.
Despite that, however, it still feels 'different' to how it was, but I think we're also 'different'. Being (significantly) older now I have more responsibilities and pressures for my time so I'm less likely (like zero chance) to be sitting idle waiting for random chats.
We'd have to ask those who are, now, the age we were then - but then they also have no frame of reference. My son is often chatting to his friends online, but I think they're exclusively friends from meatspace rather than electronic strangers.
Furries are keeping this dream alive on Telegram
Would anyone still use a desktop-only (no mobile) messenger where you have to run/turn on intentionally (not always-on like most mobile-first messengers nowadays), lists online/offline friends the way AIM/ICQ did, and you can only send messages with online friends?
I get that most leisure computing has moved off of desktop to mobile in modern days, but there's definitely enough of us nerds who're on a computer a lot (even if just for work, if nothing else). It can't be any less than in the late 1990s when ICQ was popular.
I get that most leisure computing has moved off of desktop to mobile in modern days, but there's definitely enough of us nerds who're on a computer a lot (even if just for work, if nothing else). It can't be any less than in the late 1990s when ICQ was popular.
I think it probably is less. I’d hang out on my laptop in the evenings and mornings (like, while watching TV or reading news when eating breakfast) in a way I don’t now. I use my iPad or phone now.
I do wonder, though, if there’s a gap for a messenger app that runs only while in the foreground in your phone [edit: or tablet or computer!] - or maybe until you next lock the screen, so you can ‘be online’ only while reading, playing a game, or doomscrolling.
I do wonder, though, if there’s a gap for a messenger app that runs only while in the foreground in your phone [edit: or tablet or computer!] - or maybe until you next lock the screen, so you can ‘be online’ only while reading, playing a game, or doomscrolling.
Now that I think about it, that's true. The same of IRC and MSN Messenger. Since being online all the time was not the default state of things, people only turned those applications (or even their computers) on when they actually wanted to chat to other people. When you saw your friend online on one of those, you immediately wrote something to them, even if you didn't really have anything to say, because what was the point of having the application on otherwise?
Inreally enjoyed that, especially on ICQ. My first real job was a night operations role at a reservation services company, managing incidents and doing database maintenance work.
There was alot of waiting involved, and I would chat on icq with a lot of random people in Europe. I ended up meeting one person!
The problem is… people are people and do nasty things. I have a good friend who is a few years younger. She found herself on the “information superhighway” at 13-14, blue collar parents who had no idea what she was doing alone on AIM or what that was. She find herself meeting this charming guy… who happened to be in his 30’s.
Learning about how common that was was very sobering… as this thing that represented fun and friends to me ended up being malevolent to many.
There was alot of waiting involved, and I would chat on icq with a lot of random people in Europe. I ended up meeting one person!
The problem is… people are people and do nasty things. I have a good friend who is a few years younger. She found herself on the “information superhighway” at 13-14, blue collar parents who had no idea what she was doing alone on AIM or what that was. She find herself meeting this charming guy… who happened to be in his 30’s.
Learning about how common that was was very sobering… as this thing that represented fun and friends to me ended up being malevolent to many.
Yeah, I've thought this for a while now. It's like it used to be you either were available to chat or you weren't, but now it's like everyone is half-available at all times. I agree with other commenters that the fact that you had to be sitting at a desktop was also a factor. Finishing what you were doing and logging into AIM (or taking down your away message) was the equivalent of opening your door, going into the lounge/breakroom, etc. --- a signal of openness to interaction.
I might relate to this, but I also spent more time talking to friends on the phone 20 years ago. The perception of this greatness can't be disentangled from the experience of youth.
This might interest you, it was posted on HN early last year:
Show HN: Coffeehouse, one-on-one voicechat with random HN users
Show HN: Coffeehouse, one-on-one voicechat with random HN users
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39067496
My group of friends gets something really close to OP, because of our music bot (Which only pings everyone on specific events, like the music queue running out, uncommon enough that it doesn't get annoying, and never more than once a session)
There are a billion communities using discord and telegram to do basically what you’re describing - topic rooms, hangout rooms, you can change your online status to signal your willingness to ge sociable.
Our friend group's social contract is to sit in a discord channel (even if empty) if you're open to chatting. Unfortunately we have no real equivalent for text.
I still miss the unique ICQ green/red lists feature, it would let you control who can see you're online without a second account.
Discord, sort of, but its not as personal and its not as clear who is actually present.
might have to put a green dot on a hat or tshirt and try this irl
well part of it was there wasnt ^{10}10 = 10^{10^{10^{10^{10^{10^{10^{10^{10^{10}}}}}}}}} more interesting things than chatting with your friends to do online
I'm open for chitchat and you opened it 9 hours ago
You can on Hangout.fm since it’s about live music
> I also had this idea to turn this into an IoT device that has 5 RGB lights and sits on your desk. It would light up when each friend you have delegated joins your Discord voice channel and you could customize the colour for each friend. If I get some traction I might turn it into a real product, so email me at my email address in my about page if that seems something you'd like.
Hah, I'm also building something like this for notification purposes. My wife's tablet sometimes doesn't show notifications and she's often not near her phone, so I ordered some ESP32's and LED boards[0]. Going to scatter them around the house and link them to a switch in Home Assistant so I can light them up if I need to get a hold of her. I'm planning a back-and-forth scan effect to make sure they're eye-catching, already named them Cylons.
[0] https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/S9b244caf41934a5eb...
Hah, I'm also building something like this for notification purposes. My wife's tablet sometimes doesn't show notifications and she's often not near her phone, so I ordered some ESP32's and LED boards[0]. Going to scatter them around the house and link them to a switch in Home Assistant so I can light them up if I need to get a hold of her. I'm planning a back-and-forth scan effect to make sure they're eye-catching, already named them Cylons.
[0] https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/S9b244caf41934a5eb...
My partner is disabled, and my home office is far enough from the bedroom/her work desk that I sometimes can't hear her when she could use, wants, or needs help. These very different priorities make messaging me difficult for her sometimes, not to mention that I can't know what the urgency is if she messages me over SMS/Signal/etc.
As a result, we were looking into a very similar system where we each have an LED signboard, speaker, and priority lights on the top of a small device that lives on top of our monitors along with an app where she can select "not urgent, but you should know", "when you have a moment", "as soon as you can", and "urgent, right now" in an app, with an optional message, and the device makes a tone and lights the lights associated with the most recent, highest priority message as well as reminding every five minutes.
I'm playing with an ESP32 right now to implement, but it's nice to see that the entire concept isn't entirely unprecidented.
As a result, we were looking into a very similar system where we each have an LED signboard, speaker, and priority lights on the top of a small device that lives on top of our monitors along with an app where she can select "not urgent, but you should know", "when you have a moment", "as soon as you can", and "urgent, right now" in an app, with an optional message, and the device makes a tone and lights the lights associated with the most recent, highest priority message as well as reminding every five minutes.
I'm playing with an ESP32 right now to implement, but it's nice to see that the entire concept isn't entirely unprecidented.
That’s a great idea! I remember on an Android phone - maybe Galaxy Nexus, or the original Pixel - you could blink an LED with different colors for different app notifications. I had blue, yellow, red, and green for various apps, and so without ever having the screen turn on or the device make sounds, I could tell if I should bother to check.
To me, not having any sensory disabilities, that’s a lower cognitive load than banners or other text/icon-based notifications.
To me, not having any sensory disabilities, that’s a lower cognitive load than banners or other text/icon-based notifications.
The first Android phone I owned also had this feature, and it was super helpful.
It's a shame that our phones are becoming more and more voracious surveillance devices without the common courtesy of doing things that are helpful for the user.
It's a shame that our phones are becoming more and more voracious surveillance devices without the common courtesy of doing things that are helpful for the user.
The Nexus One [1] from 2010 had a little trackball that could light up for notifications.
While the trackball was understandably nixed in later models (though it was still useful for fine control!), its notification feature is dearly missed.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_One
While the trackball was understandably nixed in later models (though it was still useful for fine control!), its notification feature is dearly missed.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_One
It is so useful, for me a must have on every phone. on Android the app aodNotify is what I've been using to recreate it.
I had a samsung with this over 10 years ago.
Or just get a $5 radio doorbell. You know, when it's 'urgent, right now' you don't want to learn what you are too late because for whatever reason internet/wireless/cellular wasn't working.
This ^ anything else is just wanting to play with tech instead of solving the problem immediately. Which is fine, sure, but that radio doorbell (or better, 3 different ones for different priority levels, since it seems important) will fix the issue right now.
This project is also a reason for me to play with LoRA, hence the ESP32, but point taken, certainly.
Rather than do that I would probably hard wire it if the Internet and LoRA are not sufficient.
Rather than do that I would probably hard wire it if the Internet and LoRA are not sufficient.
Or a lamp, an RGB bulb, and a quick app to make a widget to set the color for the low-urgency requests.
If you have Apple devices and share your locations in Find My, she could use the Find My app to make your devices beep loudly and optionally show a message. Great for urgency, since the beep is really loud and doesn’t stop until you tell it to.
Your current setup is, of course, much more interesting.
Your current setup is, of course, much more interesting.
I’ve built a few things like this using Nerves / Elixir on a pi. It’s got a really nice dev experience through to useful deployment and over-the-air updates.
I highly recommend it to anyone building little functional prototypes of this sort.
I highly recommend it to anyone building little functional prototypes of this sort.
I've not looked at this space - but with flexible control software, such devices could serve a very wide variety of use cases. And perhaps multiple uses cases simultaneously, far less intrusively than dealing with a variety of alarm & alert systems.
While this is a pretty cool hardware project, I would be quite annoyed to be your partner. No offense, but it almost reads as satire that you want to flash LEDs in every corner of the house if your wife doesn't look at her phone notifications quickly enough.
They said a status board on top of their monitor, not every corner of their house. This seems like a very unobtrusive signal to me. Plus, some people like to hide or obscure their phone from their field of view during work, to minimize distractions. Honestly, the only person I immediately check my phone for is my wife. If I could have a priority indicator along with that, I’d love it. There are some things I need to know immediately (a kid is sick and one of us needs to pick them up, etc.) regardless of what I’m doing, and there are others where it can wait until I’m done with a meeting.
> They said a status board on top of their monitor, not every corner of their house.
No, that was someone else.
No, that was someone else.
Ah, you’re correct.
I thought it went without saying that she's on board with it, and that "need to get a hold of her" meant e.g. "I'm trying to call her but she's out in the shop". 99% of our communication during the day is asynchronous.
Can you explain why it's worse than normal landline phones that you can hear in the entire house?
No offense, but your privilege is offensively visible.
Deaf people need this.
Deaf people need this.
Yup! I have significant hearing loss to the point that I'm useless without hearing aids.
I'm going to take this idea for my partner to use to get my attention if needed. Having it tie into Home Assistant is a win for me as well.
I'm going to take this idea for my partner to use to get my attention if needed. Having it tie into Home Assistant is a win for me as well.
I don’t have hearing loss but the best way I’ve found to not miss important notifications is a smart watch. Game changing to ensure my wife and I don’t miss each other’s messages around school pickup or anything else important. With an apple watch you can make the vibration pretty unmissable. We both have almost all other notifications silenced so it’s not overly noisy either. I never use sound for any kind of notification anymore - even when expecting important calls.
I think Discord is the best chat app for friend groups and it's not even close. At this point I've written the following bots specifically for my friend group's server:
# Music Quiz Bot
Existing apps work ok. A lot of paid and don't let you use a specific Spotify playlist.
The only thing annoying about this one is that none of the Discord API wrappers handle audio very well so I've found that this one gets a bit flaky if you're trying to play a lot.
This one is probably like 500 lines of Typescript but a lot of that is for the Spotify API. The game logic is pretty minimal.
# Birthday Bot
This is like 10 lines of Python. It's a cron that reads from a Google Sheet my friends and I keep up to date with personal information. If it's someone's birthday then it'll post a happy birthday message to them.
# Plex Bot
I wrote this before I discovered that Overseerr just has this built-in. My Plex was set up with a webhook to hit whenever new media was downloaded. The bot would post to a specific thread with the metadata about the new media. This included another webserver for serving the cover art from the private Plex metadata server.
# Movie Quiz Bot
Similar to the music bot although I don't think existing apps exist that do this. Essentially it's https://framed.wtf/ except as a game in a Discord channel where random frames are pulled from movies in my media library and everyone competes to name the movie first. This one required some ffmpeg fun to make pulling the stills not take forever. I considered doing static stills or having a cronjob do it, but it's more fun when it's completely random.
# Music Quiz Bot
Existing apps work ok. A lot of paid and don't let you use a specific Spotify playlist.
The only thing annoying about this one is that none of the Discord API wrappers handle audio very well so I've found that this one gets a bit flaky if you're trying to play a lot.
This one is probably like 500 lines of Typescript but a lot of that is for the Spotify API. The game logic is pretty minimal.
# Birthday Bot
This is like 10 lines of Python. It's a cron that reads from a Google Sheet my friends and I keep up to date with personal information. If it's someone's birthday then it'll post a happy birthday message to them.
# Plex Bot
I wrote this before I discovered that Overseerr just has this built-in. My Plex was set up with a webhook to hit whenever new media was downloaded. The bot would post to a specific thread with the metadata about the new media. This included another webserver for serving the cover art from the private Plex metadata server.
# Movie Quiz Bot
Similar to the music bot although I don't think existing apps exist that do this. Essentially it's https://framed.wtf/ except as a game in a Discord channel where random frames are pulled from movies in my media library and everyone competes to name the movie first. This one required some ffmpeg fun to make pulling the stills not take forever. I considered doing static stills or having a cronjob do it, but it's more fun when it's completely random.
I'm 32 and Discord is the harbinger of getting out of touch with technology for me. It is clearly a great service, because so many people use it and seem happy with it, but it is _not_ for me. And I wish that wasn't the case because Discord is pretty much _the_ spot for the communities I'd like to hang around with.
But I wasn't able to get on top of its notification system or get past the gamer heavy UI.
Does your friend group consist of mainly techies? If not, I am impressed you were able to get them to use it. Even more so if they were already on it. I tried to get folks to use Signal with me for a bit and it was the most futile endeavor I've ever attempted.
But I wasn't able to get on top of its notification system or get past the gamer heavy UI.
Does your friend group consist of mainly techies? If not, I am impressed you were able to get them to use it. Even more so if they were already on it. I tried to get folks to use Signal with me for a bit and it was the most futile endeavor I've ever attempted.
We really only use discord for voice chat. I also loathe discord for communities and anything else. Funny you mention the notifications - every now and then discord won't send the notification till hours after my bot has sent a message. I think it has something to do with having the discord app on your desktop open and it not knowing how to handle the notification.
I guess my friend group is somewhat techy - but they aren't on HN. We've been on discord since its inception. We moved to Signal as we wanted to get off Meta products.
I guess my friend group is somewhat techy - but they aren't on HN. We've been on discord since its inception. We moved to Signal as we wanted to get off Meta products.
I managed to get extended family onto Discord. Also have one just for my non-extended family. It works great.
Signal has stuck for a couple of friends, but has decidedly not stuck for anyone else - and the ones it stuck for were either already on it or have a privacy bent.
Signal, back then at least, didn't do group chats, or nowhere near as conveniently as Discord. So much so that I don't even know if Signal does group chats now as I only ever use it for one-on-one.
I set up a Matrix server back then too, didn't take. Discord won.
Signal has stuck for a couple of friends, but has decidedly not stuck for anyone else - and the ones it stuck for were either already on it or have a privacy bent.
Signal, back then at least, didn't do group chats, or nowhere near as conveniently as Discord. So much so that I don't even know if Signal does group chats now as I only ever use it for one-on-one.
I set up a Matrix server back then too, didn't take. Discord won.
I 100% agree about Discord being a horrible mess that can't possibly host normal people...
But Signal? It's basically identical to Whatsapp. I had zero issues getting people on Signal and I now use it exclusively. Every friend and family member is on it.
Only works for small groups though. I don't think large communities will have a good time on Signal. Telegram might be better for that.
But Signal? It's basically identical to Whatsapp. I had zero issues getting people on Signal and I now use it exclusively. Every friend and family member is on it.
Only works for small groups though. I don't think large communities will have a good time on Signal. Telegram might be better for that.
The problem is that Discord isn’t e2ee and logs all chats in plaintext for all time, including all DMs. This makes it a nonstarter for me; friends don’t serve as honey in the surveillance trap for communication with their friends.
Nothing that builds up an ever-growing surveillance database on private conversations between friends can be in the running for “best”.
Nothing that builds up an ever-growing surveillance database on private conversations between friends can be in the running for “best”.
We're all aware of this and we have multiple people working in the defense industry with high clearances in the server. If something needs to be shared that can't be made public then it doesn't go in Discord. This covers about 99.9% of our correspondences.
The cognitive overhead of remembering where I can talk about what with which people seems exhausting. I deleted all chat apps except Signal from my phone.
Signal really should support bots.
> can't be made public then it doesn't go in Discord. This covers about 99.9%
Sometimes I forget that my friend groups are nothing like most peoples’ friend groups.
Signal really should support bots.
> can't be made public then it doesn't go in Discord. This covers about 99.9%
Sometimes I forget that my friend groups are nothing like most peoples’ friend groups.
>The cognitive overhead of remembering where I can talk about what with which people seems exhausting
This is just part of life of having a clearance. If it's not Discord, then it's the happy hour where you have to worry about people getting a few too many beers deep and saying something stupid, and then others have an obligation to report it.
Have some prudence about what to say in what settings is a life skill in general.
This is just part of life of having a clearance. If it's not Discord, then it's the happy hour where you have to worry about people getting a few too many beers deep and saying something stupid, and then others have an obligation to report it.
Have some prudence about what to say in what settings is a life skill in general.
> Signal really should support bots.
I feel the same way. If Signal supported bots/an API and “Communities” (in the WhatsApp sense) I’d finally be able to cutover all my use-cases from Discord. I get that the E2EE is a bit tricky for an API, and that you can kind of hack together Communities by just having a couple group chats, but the UX gap is just a little too big
I feel the same way. If Signal supported bots/an API and “Communities” (in the WhatsApp sense) I’d finally be able to cutover all my use-cases from Discord. I get that the E2EE is a bit tricky for an API, and that you can kind of hack together Communities by just having a couple group chats, but the UX gap is just a little too big
These all sound like a lot of fun. I've built a few discord bots myself as I've run a few online communities.
1) Reminder bot for scheduled events.
We're all working adults who all played games as teens together . To actually get us together, we schedule our favorite games for once a month to play for a few hours. We all often forget when they start, so my bot posts a 2 week, 1 week 3 days, and 2 hour notice.
2) RCON bot I run a TF2 server and a Minecraft server. You can manage both via RCON commands via slash commands in Discord. Also the tf2 one monitors player activity and alerts if players are in the server
3. Private server API bot
I founded a private game server for a game that ended service in 2023. The bot reads from our API to make a central list of lobbies and status. It also creates voice channels for each public lobby.
It's also used to help grant items and other admin commands.
4. For April Fools, I made a snarky bot that responded to random messages. It was backed by Gemini.
These have all been fun and novel to make but I've never found a great way to productize them and make money from any of them. Wonder if you've found any avenues there.
1) Reminder bot for scheduled events.
We're all working adults who all played games as teens together . To actually get us together, we schedule our favorite games for once a month to play for a few hours. We all often forget when they start, so my bot posts a 2 week, 1 week 3 days, and 2 hour notice.
2) RCON bot I run a TF2 server and a Minecraft server. You can manage both via RCON commands via slash commands in Discord. Also the tf2 one monitors player activity and alerts if players are in the server
3. Private server API bot
I founded a private game server for a game that ended service in 2023. The bot reads from our API to make a central list of lobbies and status. It also creates voice channels for each public lobby.
It's also used to help grant items and other admin commands.
4. For April Fools, I made a snarky bot that responded to random messages. It was backed by Gemini.
These have all been fun and novel to make but I've never found a great way to productize them and make money from any of them. Wonder if you've found any avenues there.
Not only Discord is not private, it’s looks, feels, and interacts bloated - extremely bloated. Sometimes I am forced to use it and I am almost constantly disgusted in those durations. Luckily around where I live “friend groups” are still far from Discord.
Going from signal to discord is crazy. How can you be OK with knowing that your personal voice chats are being monitored, recorded and sold to the next highest bidder? How can it be so easy to choose convenience over that? Or is it that we have essentially given up and wanna actively take a part in mass surveillance?
Not every decision is about opsec. If, for what you're doing, you want people to be alerted about your actions without your explicit say-so, then signal is not the tool for that job.
Shame on discord for having a lousy privacy stance, but most people aren't on signal for the privacy, most people are on signal because that's where their friends are (and one or two of those friends is there for the privacy).
Shame on discord for having a lousy privacy stance, but most people aren't on signal for the privacy, most people are on signal because that's where their friends are (and one or two of those friends is there for the privacy).
That's the difference between people who give in and people who don't. This is not about "opsec", it's about exercising your fundamental right to privacy. Majority of people are reckless, the ones who take a second to think about it are not
I agree with you, but the trade off is real for most people. It's unfortunately a binary choice: 'privacy ⊕ social community', instead of 'privacy & social' community.
It's interesting how opensource Zulip[1] hasn't been able to garner as much of a following or usage amongst the gamer crowd compared to Discord.
[1] https://zulip.com/
It's interesting how opensource Zulip[1] hasn't been able to garner as much of a following or usage amongst the gamer crowd compared to Discord.
[1] https://zulip.com/
These two apps are not comparable. My guess is that 90%+ of people using Discord are doing so for the low-latency voice conversations with optional screen/game sharing.
Zulip does not have first-party voice chat. You would be more likely to get gamers to switch to a Teamspeak server.
Zulip does not have first-party voice chat. You would be more likely to get gamers to switch to a Teamspeak server.
but why can't the same person use both? i like discord since it has better group chat features that my groups use, but i also use signal for privacy with some of those group members.
it's not like people have to "don't give in" all the time...
it's not like people have to "don't give in" all the time...
> Not every decision is about opsec.
Until you find that you expected security and privacy and the developer/corporation/investors say, "too bad for you".
This is the warning of Niemöller's famous paraprosdokian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
Until you find that you expected security and privacy and the developer/corporation/investors say, "too bad for you".
This is the warning of Niemöller's famous paraprosdokian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
Discord probably has a choice — free or ‘private/paid and then die sooner’. Sooner as in before a spectacular exit.
Discord voice calls and channels do use E2EE now, as of last year:
https://discord.com/blog/meet-dave-e2ee-for-audio-video
https://discord.com/blog/meet-dave-e2ee-for-audio-video
I think it's important to clarify that it's just audio and video that are E2EE, not text messages themselves. (You may have meant this, but "channels" was a little ambiguous.)
The trade-off here is a social connections versus privacy/integrity.
I can make the decision to use Signal or whatever, but as long as my whole social circle does not do the same, it wont be useful. And since when they do the swap, they have to convince their whole social circle to do the same, this becomes an impossible task. Either you have 10 different apps for different friends that lie on different places on the ethics of privacy, or you just take the easy way out and use what everyone uses.
I can make the decision to use Signal or whatever, but as long as my whole social circle does not do the same, it wont be useful. And since when they do the swap, they have to convince their whole social circle to do the same, this becomes an impossible task. Either you have 10 different apps for different friends that lie on different places on the ethics of privacy, or you just take the easy way out and use what everyone uses.
Is there some reasonable way to self host a (secure) voice chat channel?
Just create a second group in signal with your friends called "group X: call only". Then everyone mutes the group (which I think mutes calls as well). Then whenever someone wants to join the "voice chat" they can just initiate a call. If someone else sees and joins, so be it.
Depending on your definition of reasonable, you could just pipe the audio over SSH: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/116919/redirect-sou...
Wow, I never thought you could ssh your audio. That's so fucking awesome
Mumble!
Mumble is awesome but definitely difficult to properly configure. Especially the TLS certs for any reverse proxy won't work directly, there's a hacky way to make it work which I don't fully trust
I work on a project in this space, and the endless insistence of people that they have to run clearly non-web things through reverse proxies always amazes me :)
Not everything is a web app, and it's trivial these days to obtain certificates, even without a proxy (certbot, etc.).
Of course I understand that if you host a lot of web apps, having all web requests routed through a universal proxy is nice for various reasons. But platforms like Discord and such are complex beasts and use more technologies than HTTP(S).
Not everything is a web app, and it's trivial these days to obtain certificates, even without a proxy (certbot, etc.).
Of course I understand that if you host a lot of web apps, having all web requests routed through a universal proxy is nice for various reasons. But platforms like Discord and such are complex beasts and use more technologies than HTTP(S).
> I understand that if you host a lot of web apps
The only reason. Plus, it's a single source of truth and configuring an auth with a reverse proxy is far easier
The only reason. Plus, it's a single source of truth and configuring an auth with a reverse proxy is far easier
Teamspeak
Voice chats are e2ee, so I'm not sure where you're making this information up from.
Man. Reminds me when many years back I had about 10 friends collaborating on a movie and I needed something between asynchronous and synchronous, so I stripped Wordpress down to just titles and little avatars on a front page feed thing.
About 2 years later Twitter came out and I was like "oh, I guess I was on to something." :)
About 2 years later Twitter came out and I was like "oh, I guess I was on to something." :)
"Scheduling" can become a four-letter word when it comes to adults organizing for game nights. In many groups game night rarely seems to rise to the formality of scheduling sports with organized practice/play sessions.
It's nice to hear that this group found a way to maintain the spontaneity.
It's nice to hear that this group found a way to maintain the spontaneity.
TIL about "four-letter word" as an ESL speaker. If anyone else is confused about the linguistic compression algorithm that squeezes "scheduling" into just four letters, the magic is, of course, profanity! And "four-letter word" seems to be a polite way of saying something is or can become a PITA.
yeah calling something a "four-letter word" is intended to evoke the idea that, people react negatively upon merely hearing the word (as though it were an expletive)
I didn't see this in the article, but why not just organize the games in a Discord text channel? Discord has very granular notifications that seem the perfect solution here, so folks can see there are unread messages in #games, and the folks gaming are already on the server.
One big noisy chat for everything is an antipattern, as any group of sufficient size eventually learns.
One big noisy chat for everything is an antipattern, as any group of sufficient size eventually learns.
One Big Chat is great for the terminally online. Everyone else gets horribly behind.
Organized channels is the way to go and spending time thinking about setup is worth it. Otherwise they develop naturally and haphazardly.
Organized channels is the way to go and spending time thinking about setup is worth it. Otherwise they develop naturally and haphazardly.
This was going to be my next idea if the bot didn't go well! For unread messages in Discord, you have to actively go into the discord app to check it. The fact that the bot only sends a notification when someone has taken the action to jump into discord signals that you're ready to chat right now. It avoids the 'I'll be on in 30ish', where in reality that might not happen. Talk is cheap.
The discord of '22 was, iirc, very different from now, or at least the culture around it. It looks like they just only used it for a single voice chat lobby
The Discord of 2020 and before absolutely supported text channels, voice channels, multiple of the above, customizable notifications, and everything required here. Like OP and many others I found myself on a number of Discord servers during the pandemic for voice/video chat, gaming together, etc. and that app was the straightforward solution both for organizing and the actual event for groups of any size from 4-20.
The piece was published this week, and yall seem to be missing the point. The goal is to let people know when a VC is happening amongst this group, not to do party matching for whatever game is being played.
Also this might be a premature optimization issue, it seems like the friend group is only five people and probably very unlikely to grow
s/something/a Discord bot/ to unclickbait the title..
genuinely unbelievable that the story is so highly voted with such a vague title
The clickbait makes you click, and the story is about a cool hack, so you upvote. I don't see how this is unbelievable
hn readers aren't usually so easily baited
Yes, they absolutely are. HN is not as niche as it used to be, and clickbait works on everyone.
[flagged]
I completely disagree. The point is the impact it has on lives, not the tools used to build it. I would enjoy it if more people focused their writing on the impact their work has on people, and less on the tools and processes used. Or at the very least, clearly delineate the build from the impact.
I see where you're coming from, but I like the way the story is formatted.
There's plenty to doom and gloom about with the state of tech right now, but this is a good reminder that sometimes even Big Internet tools, with a little ingenuity, can sometimes be repurposed to serve the users and not some corporation's bottom line.
It's kind of a throwback to the olden days where you might stand up an IRC server or something similar just for your friend group. I like seeing people returning to the small internet where it serves as a substrate for real people doing real things.
There's plenty to doom and gloom about with the state of tech right now, but this is a good reminder that sometimes even Big Internet tools, with a little ingenuity, can sometimes be repurposed to serve the users and not some corporation's bottom line.
It's kind of a throwback to the olden days where you might stand up an IRC server or something similar just for your friend group. I like seeing people returning to the small internet where it serves as a substrate for real people doing real things.
It sounds like we agree. I wasn't dissing the article - I was saying that I like this article's writing and want to see more of it, and that I appreciated the title not being about the tech stack.
I love the Idea. And i would adopt the solution if i didn't already have one.
Personally, in my circle of friends, we use slack (at first the free plan and now a payed plan).
During the pandemic we moved to the payed plan, because of the restriction on members in huddles/calls (and also because we want endless history and our own encryption keys).
Currently we have Game (D&D e.g.), PP and Small-talk channels that we use to have huddles that everyone can join.
Mostly we create other channels on demand to organise things. Or share knowledge, music and so on.
One nice feature with slack is, that you can receive notification if a huddle starts in a channel, also on mobile, if you have the app. I don't know how often we use this notifications to join the small-talk channel. Personally, i join them every other week because i get notified.
PS: If someone from slack reads this, please do a friends plan, something between the free and pro plan :)
Personally, in my circle of friends, we use slack (at first the free plan and now a payed plan).
During the pandemic we moved to the payed plan, because of the restriction on members in huddles/calls (and also because we want endless history and our own encryption keys).
Currently we have Game (D&D e.g.), PP and Small-talk channels that we use to have huddles that everyone can join.
Mostly we create other channels on demand to organise things. Or share knowledge, music and so on.
One nice feature with slack is, that you can receive notification if a huddle starts in a channel, also on mobile, if you have the app. I don't know how often we use this notifications to join the small-talk channel. Personally, i join them every other week because i get notified.
PS: If someone from slack reads this, please do a friends plan, something between the free and pro plan :)
Reminds me of our Teamspeak Server, that we have already running for over 2 decades. Not only for playing games but more for just come online and hang out, quietly sitting next to each other, "lurking". We do this almost every evening, someone is always there. Probably couldn't live without it T.T.
This was a fun read. Being experienced in various methods of self hosting, it was cool to learn of coolify. Seeing more people get into self hosting always makes me happy.
What? This has nothing to do with it. If author was interested in self-hosting, he would have used mumble or something instead of signal/discord
If folks don't want to understandably install the discord app perhaps notifications could be sent through something like ntfy. Like create a dedicated channel for notifications for this and have the interested people subscribe to it. Can't say for sure if the discord.py library will allow for something like this but I think it should be possible.
Please, fix the contrast of the clicked links and your background. The discord.py link is unreadable. Same with supabase and coolify. Those I'm sure I haven't visited.
This comment is so interesting because clearly, it's the unvisited color that's broken, you know this, and you even typed it out, but it is so common for visited links to be darker than unvisited links that it makes you assume the opposite.
Wow so cool, I feel like if I had a light near by desk that turned on every time a friend was on discord voice, I'd be so much more likely to hop in for a few minutes over getting an notification. Something about the physical affordance feels harder to ignore
Check out Philips Hue or Govee lights with IFTTT integration - they can already do exactly this with Discord webhooks, no need to build it from scratch.
I always try to solve problems by using what people already have, so I wonder if having another group on Signal, where only “I'm playing!” messages would be allowed, couldn't fix the issue…?
I think it was the fact that actions spoke louder than words for us. It’s easy to say “I’ll jump on” but then you get distracted and then 30 mins later you go online. Similarly to when people say “leaving now” and then they start getting ready to leave. Because we are notified that someone has taken the action of going online they are 100% available to chat or play a game.
Do discord events allow for connections to ifttt or zapier? Or even just trigger a webhook? If so then you can trigger a smart light bulb in each persons home via these services. To get this to work you create 2 applets triggered by the same webhook. One to turn the light on, then another to turn it off after a specified delay.
I’ve always thought this way and it’s amazing what applications and problems you can solve or replace with text files (csv, TXT, md), calendars (shared) and email. If I had to estimate, 80-90%?
I always believed in the power of simple tools and don’t reinvent the wheel.
I always believed in the power of simple tools and don’t reinvent the wheel.
My friend group has multiple Signal chats for different purposes. One is a general chat, no politics allowed. Then there's a chat that is for politics. One is for live music, and there are other sub-groups for specific interests.
Fun story. This reminds me of the summer my friends and I were all still around our small town — we used the Yo! app the same way, as a bat signal to meet up and get into nonsense. Someone would start Yo!ing and then once there was a critical mass of return Yo!s we'd switch to text/phone and link up.
Good times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app)
Good times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app)
That actually sounds really nice.
> Over the next year, our group chat (in Signal) was drowning in notifications. A mix of general chit chat, talks on the ever changing news of COVID and the most important - when can people play games and chat. It really annoyed me when people would post on "hey anyone wanna play [game] in 15 mins?", for it to be buried in another 5 messages.
My friend group's solution to this problem is...lots of different group chats. They're all on Google Chat, but we have tons of different ones for different topics: bikes, space, covid/infectious diseases, baking, craft, plants, wildlife, true crime, politics, depressing news, renewables/sustainability, tech geekery, board games, home improvement...
I do miss video chat nights during lockdown though.
> Over the next year, our group chat (in Signal) was drowning in notifications. A mix of general chit chat, talks on the ever changing news of COVID and the most important - when can people play games and chat. It really annoyed me when people would post on "hey anyone wanna play [game] in 15 mins?", for it to be buried in another 5 messages.
My friend group's solution to this problem is...lots of different group chats. They're all on Google Chat, but we have tons of different ones for different topics: bikes, space, covid/infectious diseases, baking, craft, plants, wildlife, true crime, politics, depressing news, renewables/sustainability, tech geekery, board games, home improvement...
I do miss video chat nights during lockdown though.
WhatsApp has a somewhat similar feature - pull up to start a group voice chat. You can ping others to let them know you're around.
https://faq.whatsapp.com/1973730693032338
https://faq.whatsapp.com/1973730693032338
The only time I've seen this feature be used is when my grandma accidentally turns it on in the family groupchat - I just don't wanna hang out with my friends in WhatsApp
This reminds me a lot of the days when we would just hang in ventrillo and teamspeak to just hang out even when not playing games. Especially around the time when communities gathered around dedicated servers were still a thing. Miss those days :(
I had the idea of making a website where anyone of a group of friends can post their evening plans - go to trivia, play tennis, etc - and others would be able to sign up to join.
Never made it but glad to see these things can work.
Never made it but glad to see these things can work.
Anyone know if something like this already exists I could buy or use?
This was the original purpose of Twitter-- it was advertised as a network where anyone could post what they're doing and notify their friends immediately. Even until recently tweets could be received via SMS (not sure about the current status of that feature) so you'd see in real time what they're up to.
Of course, Twitter/X/etc are a far cry from that now-- but it could be worth trying where you and your friends use the service like that.
Of course, Twitter/X/etc are a far cry from that now-- but it could be worth trying where you and your friends use the service like that.
I do think this is an interesting idea. Lemme see if I can do this. How do you think the UI/UX should look like.
Here's what I am thinking. You sign in It asks you what you want to do And at what time (hour) in another column and (date) in another column And then it asks you the location
And then we can have a contact-me: which could lead to discord or signal. Or, if you aren't comfortable sharing that info, then you could have a shareable link that you can share with anyone and then they can write their email or whatever and you would get live notifications through mail or whatever platform you decided.
Lemme know if we are on the same page?
EDIT: I have created a mvp but like, the problem is that it's just a form y'know and I just created something where you would input in this information and it would give html and then you can host it and using https://formsubmit.co/ you can use it. Though I guess one of the issues is that you have to validate each form in formsubmit (not good for ephemeral forms) and I guess it also shows email but there's a way to hide it too.
Also, I guess the problems aren't of forms but of discoverability. How do you make people discover your forms but I guess one way could be of having a list of all your forms or just the current ones that you want to show (IDK?) on github pages for example and then you could just share the github pages link to anyone or just have it in a about me section of most messengers?
Also.. Maybe then if you wanted to rather share it to anybody you could create a additional place where anybody can share their forms/such website. But I am not sure if what I've all said is the best user experience.
Here's what I am thinking. You sign in It asks you what you want to do And at what time (hour) in another column and (date) in another column And then it asks you the location
And then we can have a contact-me: which could lead to discord or signal. Or, if you aren't comfortable sharing that info, then you could have a shareable link that you can share with anyone and then they can write their email or whatever and you would get live notifications through mail or whatever platform you decided.
Lemme know if we are on the same page?
EDIT: I have created a mvp but like, the problem is that it's just a form y'know and I just created something where you would input in this information and it would give html and then you can host it and using https://formsubmit.co/ you can use it. Though I guess one of the issues is that you have to validate each form in formsubmit (not good for ephemeral forms) and I guess it also shows email but there's a way to hide it too.
Also, I guess the problems aren't of forms but of discoverability. How do you make people discover your forms but I guess one way could be of having a list of all your forms or just the current ones that you want to show (IDK?) on github pages for example and then you could just share the github pages link to anyone or just have it in a about me section of most messengers?
Also.. Maybe then if you wanted to rather share it to anybody you could create a additional place where anybody can share their forms/such website. But I am not sure if what I've all said is the best user experience.
Cool, thank you!
The UI I envisioned is that the website shows what people are doing and when. You can add activities (with a form like you descibed) - but the key is that a site will show what's going on right now and for the rest of the day. And when people add to that site, notifications go out.
The UI I envisioned is that the website shows what people are doing and when. You can add activities (with a form like you descibed) - but the key is that a site will show what's going on right now and for the rest of the day. And when people add to that site, notifications go out.
I just realized that I just reinvented a form generator or a form itself...
I sketched out an app like this but with the added feature that you have a slider to indicate your commitment level.
The event poster can set a collective-commitment-threshold which triggers once sufficient commitment is reached.
Currently working on another web app though...
The event poster can set a collective-commitment-threshold which triggers once sufficient commitment is reached.
Currently working on another web app though...
use a kanban board. FOSS options exist for web-hosted implementations. Kanban works because It supports a 'backlog' of events to do, timelines for things to do that are on a deadline (e.g. concerts) and allows people to add activities / plans to backlogs which get moved to 'ready to do' as things are done / cleared. Keeps everything organised and simple, with good over-sight on what's going on when. Downside is it requires friends already somewhat technical or at least willing to learn.
> it was a life savior when my little one was a newborn to jump onto Discord for even 5 minutes to chat with my friends, watch someone play a game and then log off for another diaper change
I'm afraid I can't relate to this at all. I may a bit older and/or I may have less close friends but I prefer a very different kind of social contact that is more like make plans, meet up, rinse and repeat.
Back in the AIM/ORC days I loathed being pinged all the time for chit chat - this system reminds me of that!
I'm afraid I can't relate to this at all. I may a bit older and/or I may have less close friends but I prefer a very different kind of social contact that is more like make plans, meet up, rinse and repeat.
Back in the AIM/ORC days I loathed being pinged all the time for chit chat - this system reminds me of that!
I have several chat groups with friends and even with my wife to avoid this topic. With my wife, I have several now: one to share recipes, one to share the weeks meal plan, one to talk about the activities of our two year old and one to share houses we might be interested in buying.
It’s great to separate for record keeping, but mostly to avoid forcing the conversation on some organisational thing when the other just needs eg to vent about something at work
It’s great to separate for record keeping, but mostly to avoid forcing the conversation on some organisational thing when the other just needs eg to vent about something at work
It seems to me a common enough use case that it should be built into discord.
I think the "I am here, now" alert does more than the "hey who is around?" message.
I think the "I am here, now" alert does more than the "hey who is around?" message.
This is great. For years I’ve been wanting to solve the “link problem” in my Signal group. My friends post a ton of great links that get lost in the scrollback and I’d love a way to get just a dedicated queue. I’ve thought about things like a private subreddit or even just a different link group; but everything just felt like moving the problem and change management. Great to see this type of solution worked for you!
I think Signal should just create a pin option like how discord and a lot of others have.
But in the meantime if I had to genuinely suggest a method without any friction if you are okay with using code like the author did, then I'd suggest something and lemme know what you think
Why don't you just create a special emoji that would only be used for the purposes of Pin, like (Oh the irony), and then have a signal cli or signal-bot https://github.com/signal-bot/signal-bot where you could do something like /pins and it would show the pins but you would need a different mobile number or account for that and honestly just a big hassle. I could think of other ways but we would never reach the native User experience that signal could provide if it would allow pin natively
EDIT: Even a more simpler way could be if we could just search the chat emojis and we could just search <the pin emoji> and it would show it
Also I am surprised that HN doesn't allow emojis
But in the meantime if I had to genuinely suggest a method without any friction if you are okay with using code like the author did, then I'd suggest something and lemme know what you think
Why don't you just create a special emoji that would only be used for the purposes of Pin, like (Oh the irony), and then have a signal cli or signal-bot https://github.com/signal-bot/signal-bot where you could do something like /pins and it would show the pins but you would need a different mobile number or account for that and honestly just a big hassle. I could think of other ways but we would never reach the native User experience that signal could provide if it would allow pin natively
EDIT: Even a more simpler way could be if we could just search the chat emojis and we could just search <the pin emoji> and it would show it
Also I am surprised that HN doesn't allow emojis
i built the same thing (though only the notifier, not all the stat tracking) for my friend group back in 2017 when PUBG came out and we were trying to play together as often as we could. can confirm it worked great.
i eventually moved the bot to glitch.com (rip) where we could collaborate on it and it evolved into a monster of in jokes and utilities. it's going offline this week unless i can find the time to migrate it off glitch
i eventually moved the bot to glitch.com (rip) where we could collaborate on it and it evolved into a monster of in jokes and utilities. it's going offline this week unless i can find the time to migrate it off glitch
There is a very weird display bug on this site : when I access it in lanscape horizontal position, with my iPhone 8 on Brave or Safari : all the text is trembling, unable to settle on a size. Trapped in a resizing loop. If I rotate the phone verically it settles properly and then also horizontally. But if I reload the page (horizontally) it goes nuts again :)
I really like this idea, especially the music quiz and birthday reminder. I've been wanting to build a bot for my friend group that shows up now and then when things go quiet, just to gently remind us of something warm. It doesn’t interrupt anyone, but quietly adds a bit of connection to the group.
I have a similar friend group that hangs out on discord now due to the post college diaspora and we even use a Signal group chat. However, it sounds like it's a smaller group, because we've taken to literally sending bat signal gifs into the chat when someone gets online and it works well enough for us :)
This is really interesting as a way to keep people connected on a regular basis. I wonder if something similar could be done for groups who aren't necessarily into gaming: like say a "virtual fireplace" where folks could just pop into a call and talk
Discord is already like that for a lot of niche communities and fandoms that aren't necessarily gaming; it just all evolved on a gaming-focused platform.
What I get from this is that Discord needs to make this notification able to be enabled.
Interesting. But in my experience, the Australian need for daily social interaction with a group of peers - preferably including some sort of large alcoholic beverage - is quite a bit above average. Not sure how a group of Americans would respond.
I’m confused about what this solution does. I’d expect that as people move to discord all the message spam that was happening in signal would just eventually move over to discord as people got used to communicating there instead of signal
It encourages people to speak rather than type.
You don't get hundreds of messages per day by writing in email style. You get there if you have a lot of synchronous or near-synchronous communication in chat. It's kind of obvious that voice call suits this better, but there is friction involved in making an actual call.
Discord voice channel might reduce the friction if you make this culture of hopping in and out of it.
You don't get hundreds of messages per day by writing in email style. You get there if you have a lot of synchronous or near-synchronous communication in chat. It's kind of obvious that voice call suits this better, but there is friction involved in making an actual call.
Discord voice channel might reduce the friction if you make this culture of hopping in and out of it.
If you don't care about Security/Privacy, Discord has a great UI and is probably significantly better for free-flowing group conversations
> The hardest part was convincing people to download the Discord app on their phone as most of us didn't have it downloaded.
This was surprising to me – is this typical of most Discord users (primarily desktop users over mobile)?
This was surprising to me – is this typical of most Discord users (primarily desktop users over mobile)?
Discord was originally a place to organize for playing videogames with people. If you're using it for that purpose, you're probably on your computer already (because that's where the games are). Thus, the mobile app ends up being more for checking in with your community while away from the computer, rather than a primary driver of your engagement with the platform.
They could have been using it in browser. One of discords underrated decisions is that the browser version is fully featured and doesn't force you to download the app, a new user can join a server in their browser with just a name which is as low friction as you can get.
I need the opposite of this. Some of my friends just want to sit in Discord and play the same three games all day every day. I either need a way to get them to do something different or to find new friends
Reminds me of those old coworking circles I used to be part of. Not about being productive really, but more about giving people a reason to show up and talk. Friction gets replaced with rhythm.
I tried that a long time ago with teamspeak, and then discord, but my friends are not big users of these tools and so it didnt work. Discords do too much. If whatsapp could do this it could work
I do think that whatsapp could do this tbh if it would actually provide its api like discord does.
Telegram feels like it can definitely do such stuff and I found in my opinion that its way easier to host telegram bot on cloudflare than it is on discord so theoretically you could even have it as a cf worker with a deploy on cf button so as to even people who don't know too much about deploying could use it.
Telegram feels like it can definitely do such stuff and I found in my opinion that its way easier to host telegram bot on cloudflare than it is on discord so theoretically you could even have it as a cf worker with a deploy on cf button so as to even people who don't know too much about deploying could use it.
WhatsApp has this now - https://faq.whatsapp.com/1973730693032338
WhatsApp should totally add that as a feature! A voice chat room with join notifications.
My friend group just uses a separate group chat where the purpose is just to say "Hey I'm hopping onto discord if anyone wants to hang out" and it works well enough.
This reminds me of the Houseparty app that took off with my friend group during Covid. It had a mechanism to notify others when someone had joined a party. Fun times
I wish discord would just implement this as a setting.
Watch Years and Years (2019).
I was surprised to see that there was half a million more, and not less!
You've seen a cube hold a million dollars, but this server?—Well, it can hold a million friends :')
I don’t understand why you’d use both Signal and Discord?
You guys have friends?
We just use a slack. The overwhelming single channel? nope. channels for all the hobbies, shitposting, news, games, etc. We even have a discord notification for gaming channel when people get on the gaming channel. Separate notification for the chat channel if someone wants to just chill.
Now I feel old, back in my days we all hung out on IRC and we broadcast a wav file to call on friends to join game, and had crazy scripts and bots that did weekly summary, best engagement line and so on and so forth
God I'm so jealous you were able to get your friends to join Discord.
My in-person friend group revolved around the bar we all went to. When the bar shut down, I floated the idea of a group chat but couldn't get anyone interested. No one wants to install another app and get notified more. In olden days, we'd just solve the problem with Facebook, but no one uses that anymore either. My friends are ordinary, normal, overworked people who need an easy option. The bar was that. Show up when you want to connect. Easy.
So now there's nothing. I basically just lost all my friends. We all have each other's numbers but that's just not an option for coordination.
Fuck you, Mark Zuckerberg, for making Facebook so shitty it's not even useful anymore for the one thing I ever found it useful for. I hope when we finally start coming for the billionaires, we come for you first.
My in-person friend group revolved around the bar we all went to. When the bar shut down, I floated the idea of a group chat but couldn't get anyone interested. No one wants to install another app and get notified more. In olden days, we'd just solve the problem with Facebook, but no one uses that anymore either. My friends are ordinary, normal, overworked people who need an easy option. The bar was that. Show up when you want to connect. Easy.
So now there's nothing. I basically just lost all my friends. We all have each other's numbers but that's just not an option for coordination.
Fuck you, Mark Zuckerberg, for making Facebook so shitty it's not even useful anymore for the one thing I ever found it useful for. I hope when we finally start coming for the billionaires, we come for you first.
Sorry to hear that. FWIW it feels like there was probably a mismatch in valuation of the friendship there.
For my case I was able to convince many friends to connect on various chat platforms of their choice. Some friendships fizzled out, others are still going. And then there are some anew.
Unfortunately a lot of our friendships are essentially default proximity relationships. These tend to not survive as soon as the first obstacle to proximity shows up if not enough people are willing to put in the effort to make it something more.
For my case I was able to convince many friends to connect on various chat platforms of their choice. Some friendships fizzled out, others are still going. And then there are some anew.
Unfortunately a lot of our friendships are essentially default proximity relationships. These tend to not survive as soon as the first obstacle to proximity shows up if not enough people are willing to put in the effort to make it something more.
For me, is not a friendship unless there's regular, in person interaction, online doesn't count. Even if I'd gotten them onto another platform the only thing it would have been used for is coordinating more in person events. I've had to end online interactions because it became clear i couldn't value the relationship. Bar was perfect. Then a huge hospital opened up across the street and they didn't want a run down bar there.
Yeah the requirements are pretty much the same for me.
The friendships I was alluding to were basically in-person in-office sort of friendships that demanded a larger upkeep once the pandemic hit and later when I left my job. So like you I needed some online platform to coordinate in person meetups. It worked for the most part fortunately, but there were definitely some friendships that got lost along the way.
The friendships I was alluding to were basically in-person in-office sort of friendships that demanded a larger upkeep once the pandemic hit and later when I left my job. So like you I needed some online platform to coordinate in person meetups. It worked for the most part fortunately, but there were definitely some friendships that got lost along the way.
s/life savior/life saver/
This is why it’s so hard to make local friends as an adult in a new city. Good inspiration for me to make something similar to keep in touch with real people!
[deleted]
tl;dr author finds Discord better than Signal for online socializing
hogged to death :/
Do you have a link to the bot?
It’s literally in the post, m8.
Perhaps read it, use one of the many discord wrapper apis, and replicate it. He just hooks into one of the many events discord emits and bot sends a message.
Even one of the LLMs can very easily vibe code this…
Perhaps read it, use one of the many discord wrapper apis, and replicate it. He just hooks into one of the many events discord emits and bot sends a message.
Even one of the LLMs can very easily vibe code this…
It strikes me: is anyone else sick of people calling developing software "building"? Even as a software developer, it feels very supercilious.
No, build “#3. To develop or give form to according to a plan or process; create”
There’s a line between baking a cake and building a wedding cake where it stops being about the ingredients and starts being about the desired form. https://shunbridal.com/article/how-tobuild-a-wedding-cake
It’s in that context where building software makes sense. You need to link a bunch of different components together to make a greater whole.
There’s a line between baking a cake and building a wedding cake where it stops being about the ingredients and starts being about the desired form. https://shunbridal.com/article/how-tobuild-a-wedding-cake
It’s in that context where building software makes sense. You need to link a bunch of different components together to make a greater whole.
I figured someone would attempt to use the technical definition to make their case.
The problem isn't one of technical definitions, it's one of performative definitions.
I am technically an Online Communications Solutions Integration Architect, and also a guy posting on an internet forum.
The problem isn't one of technical definitions, it's one of performative definitions.
I am technically an Online Communications Solutions Integration Architect, and also a guy posting on an internet forum.
I was going by vibes with building a wedding cake. I don’t think writing a 3 line bash script is building software.
For small projects I tend to use write because that's what it feels like. For bigger things where there is a design element, I'll usually say designed and wrote X instead if I want emphasize its non-triviality.
I didn't think of it before but you're right building feels like implying more weight than it feels right. But also I concede this is quite subjective.
I didn't think of it before but you're right building feels like implying more weight than it feels right. But also I concede this is quite subjective.
I think there's a difference between software and scripts too. Unrepentant scripter4lyfe here
Yes. Especially things like "solutions architect".
There's no source of that signal that someone is open to chitchat these days, and it's in my opinion kind of killed what was once great about online communication.