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avianes

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IEEE FP8 Formats for Machine Learning (Draft) [pdf]

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13 points·by avianes·há 2 anos·3 comments

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avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
> I understood it is that a single instruction is executed on a 16-wide SIMD unit, thus processing 16 elements/threads/lanes simultaneously (subject to execution mask of course). This is what I mean by "in lockstep".

Ok I see, that definitely not what I understood from my study of the Nvidia SIMT uarch. And yes I will claim that "the instruction can be executed in multiple passes with different masks depending on which arguments are available" (using your words).

> So the operand collector provides a limited reordering capability to maximize hardware utilization, right?

Yes, that my understanding, and that's why I claim it's different from "classical" SIMD

> What is the benefit as opposed to stalling and executing the instruction only when all arguments are available?

That's a good question, note that: I think Apple GPU uarch do not work like the Nvidia one, my understanding is that Apple uarch is way closer to a classical SIMD unit. So it's definitely not killer to move form the original SIMT uarch from Nvidia.

That said, a think the SIMT uarch from Nvidia is way more flexible, and better maximize hardware utilization (executing instruction as soon as possible always help for better utilization). And let say you have 2 warps with complementary masking, with the Nvidia's SIMT uarch it goes naturally to issue both warps simultaneously and they can be executed at the same cycle within different ALU/core. With a classical SIMD uarch it may be possible but you need extra hardware to handle warp execution overlapping, and even more hardware to enable overlapping more that 2 threads.

Also, Nvidia's operand-collector allow to emulate multi-ported register-file, this probably help with register sharing. There is actually multiple patent from Nvidia about non-trivial register allocation within the register-file banks, depending on how the register will be used to minimize conflict.

> Is any existing GPU actually doing superscalar execution from the same software thread (I mean the program thread, i.e., warp, not a SIMT thread)?

It's not obvious what would mean "superscalar" in an SIMT context. For me a superscalar core is a core that can extract instruction parallelism from a sequential code (associated to a single thread) and therefore dispatch/issue/execute more that 1 instruction per cycle per thread. With SIMT most of the instruction parallelism is very explicit (with thread parallelism), so it's not really "extracted" (and not from the same thread). But anyway, if you question is either multiple instructions from a single warp can be executed in parallel (across different threads), then a would say probably yes for Nvidia (not sure, there is very few information available..), at least 2 instructions from the same thread block (from the same program, but different warp) should be able to be executed in parallel.

> I think this is essentially what some architectures describe as the "register file cache"

I'm not sure about that, there is actually some published papers (and probably some patents) from Nvidia about register-file cache for SIMT uarch. And that come after the operand-collector patent. But in the end it really depend what concept you are referring to with "register-file cache".

In the Nvidia case a "register-file cache" is a cache placed between the register-file and the operand-collector. And it makes sense in their case since the register-file have variable latency (depending on collision) and because it will save SRAM read power.
avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
> In an operand-collector architecture the threads are still executed in lockstep. > [...] > It is my understanding that you need to synchronize threads when accessing shared memory.

Not sure what you mean by lockstep here. When an operand-collector entry is ready it dispatch it to execute as soon as possible (write arbitration aside) even if other operand-collector entries from the same warp are not ready yet (so not really what a would call "threads lock-step"). But it's possible that Nvidia enforce that all threads from a warp should complete before sending the next warp instruction (I would call it something like "instruction lock-step"). This can simplify data dependency hazard check. But that an implementation detail, it's not required by the SIMT scheme.

And yes, it's hard to expose de-synchronization without memory operations, so you only need sync for memory operation. (load/store unit also have operand-collector)

> You can still get stalls if an EU is available in a given cycle but not all operands have been collected yet

That's true, but you have multiple multiple operand-collector entry to minimize the probability that no entry is ready. I should have say "to minimize bubbles".

> The way I understand the published patents is that operand collectors are a data gateway to the SIMD units. The instructions are alraedy scheduled at this point and the job of the collector is to sgnal whether the data is ready. Do modern Nvidia implementations actually reorder instructions based feedback from operand collectors?

Calling UE "SIMD unit" in an SIMT uarch add a lot of ambiguity, so I'm not sure a understand you point correctly. But, yes (warp) instruction is already scheduled, but (ALU) operation are re-scheduled by the operand-collector and it's dispatch. In the Nvidia patent they mention the possibility to dispatch operation in an order that prevent write collision for example.
avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
> GPUs are massively parallel devises, they need to keep the scheduler and ALU logic as simple and compact as possible

The simplest hardware implementation is not always the more compact or the more efficient. This is a misconception, example bellow.

> SIMT is just SIMD with some additional capabilities for control flow ..

In the Nvidia uarch, it does not. The key part of the Nvidia uarch is the "operand-collector" and the emulation of multi-ports register-file using SRAM (single or dual port) banking. In a classical SIMD uarch, you just retrieve the full vector from the register-file and execute each lane in parallel. While in the Nvidia uach, each ALU have an "operand-collector" that track and collect the operands of multiple in-flight operations. This enable to read from the register-file in an asynchronous fashion (by "asynchronous" here I mean not all at the same cycle) without introducing any stall.

When a warp is selected, the instruction is decoded, an entry is allocated in the operand-collector of each used ALU, and the list of register to read is send to the register-file. The register-file dispatch register reads to the proper SRAM banks (probably with some queuing when read collision occur). And all operand-collectors independently wait for their operands to come from the register-file, when an operand collector entry has received all the required operands, the entry is marked as ready and can now be selected by the ALU for execution.

That why (or 1 of the reason) you need to sync your threads in the SIMT programing model and not in an SIMD programming model.

Obviously you can emulate an SIMT uarch using an SIMD uarch, but a think it's missing the whole point of SIMT uarch.

Nvidia do all of this because it allow to design a more compact register-file (memories with high number of port are costly) and probably because it help to better use the available compute resources with masked operations
avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
Modern chip designs have an enormous amount of logic and therefore standard-cells. And when you are dealing with a huge amount of cell all together, it quickly becomes unmanageable, syntheses tools runtime explode, quality of results declines, results become chaotic, ..

So chip designs are spliced into partitions. Each partition is a part of your design that you synthesized separately. For example you may setup a partition for the core, and you can instantiate it multiple time into a core_cluster partition.

Note that: synthetiser's logical optimizer cannot work on logic across partitions, so you don't want to small partitions (otherwise you will have more manual optimize to do) but you also don't want too big partitions (otherwise runtime and development iteration time increase).

The question is what the good size for a partition ?

* ALU is ~ 10 K cells (synthesis runtime range from few seconds to ~5 min)

* small core (low-end) is ~1M cells (synthesis runtime range from 1~8 hours)

In the Intel terminology: "sea of FUBs" approach is to prefer small partitions, while "sea of cells" approach prefer big partitions.

About the predominance of latch or flop, it's mainly a consequence from the level of manual optimization. (latch are smaller, but harder to manage, and it give diminishing returns with new process node). Same for process-node-specific vs process-node-agnostic.

PS: Most modern designs are "sea of cells" according the Intel terminology
avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
Also, note that:

- There is only one Zero (encoded as 0x00), no negative-zero

- There is only one NaN (encoded as 0x80)
avianes
·há 2 anos·discuss
Are you aware that x86 and ARM/POWER/RISCV memory consistency model are really different? You can encounter very sneaky multitreading bug when running on ARM/POWER/RISCV a program that you have only tested on x86.

Apple has actually put a lot of effort to make the x86 to ARM transition as smooth as possible regarding memory consistency model, this is a strong indication that it's not as trivial as you seem to think.