hynek · HackerTrans

há 11 mesesdiscuss

The fancy word for that is Vertical Slice Architecture btw and it's the only way for complex apps that doesn't end in chaos.

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

Yes, because it's showing how the simplest-possible mock already gets ugly if you don't follow the advice. Making the example more complicated would dilute the point it's making.

The question of "when to mock" is very interesting and dear to my heart, but it's not the question this article is trying to answer.

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

> I’m not sure this is good advice. I prefer to test as much of the stack as possible. The most common mistake I see these days is people testing too much in isolation, which leads to a false sense of safety.

You make it sounds as if the article would argue for test isolation which it emphatically doesn't. It in fact even links out to the Mock Hell talk.

Every mock makes the test suite less meaningful and the question the article is trying to answer is how to minimize the damage the mocks do to your software if you actually need them.

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

Pretty good, except it’s not Bismarck but Fontane. ;) Also, I’m comparing myself to CGP Grey, not whatever it’s transcribed. :D

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

ha, I wish I saw that while working on that talk! adding it to the resources!

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

Shouldn't some AI be able to clean that up for you? This seems something LLMs should be well-suited for.

---

FWIW, I'm the speaker and let me be honest with you: I'm super unmotivated to write nowadays.

In the past, my usual MO was writing a bunch of blog posts and submit the ones that resonated to CfPs (e.g. <https://hynek.me/articles/python-subclassing-redux/> → <https://hynek.me/talks/subclassing/>).

However, nowadays thanks to the recent-ish changes in Twitter and Google, my only chance to have my stuff read by a nontrivial amount of people is hitting HN frontage which is a lottery. It's so bad I even got into YouTubing to get a roll at the algorithm wheel.

It takes (me) a lot of work to crystallize and compress my thoughts like this. Giving it as a talk at a big conference, at least opens the door to interesting IRL interactions which are important (to me), because I'm an introvert.

I can't stress enough how we're currently eating the seed corn by killing the public web.

hynek

ano passadodiscuss

that's a reference to my attrs library which is what data classes are based on. It originally used

    @attr.s
    class C:
        x = attr.ib()

as its main api (with `attr.attrs` and `attr.attrib` as serious business aliases so you didn't have to use it).

That API was always polarizing, some loved it, some hated it.

I will point out though, that it predates type hints and it was an effective way to declare classes with little "syntax noise" which made it easy to write but also easy to read, because you used the import name as part of the APIs.

Here is more context: https://www.attrs.org/en/stable/names.html

I REGRET NOTHING

hynek

há 2 anosdiscuss

Both PDM and Poetry are a) 90% solutions that only cover what their respective authors need (and this is indeed what Python is drowning in) and b) written in Python which makes them slow and somewhat janky since Python installations and virtualenvs tend to break (lol Homebrew).

I personally love PDM, and PDM is in the process of adopting uv’s lower-leveln functionality to install/resolve packages, but I can see how having a single binary for bootstrapping a whole dev environment is really nice.

In the end, uv’s biggest upside is that it has several people work 8h / day on it and one would be surprised how much can be achieved in such amount of time.

hynek

há 2 anosdiscuss

That is inaccurate. Both Rye and uv have the same goals and support virtualenvs.

uv is meant to supplant Rye eventually (it mostly already has: see also this post by the creator of Rye: <https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/8/21/harvest-season/>). But you can’t put a virtualenv into a Kubernetes, so Docker containers are still interesting if that’s something you want to do.

hynek

há 2 anosdiscuss

It’s much, much faster both in creating virtualenvs and installing the dependencies. And if you use lock/sync, you get a cross-platform lockfile that you only got with PDM and Poetry before – no more requirements.txt (but it supports it too).

hynek

há 3 anosdiscuss

I guess PEP 703 has to be auto-accepted now. I don't make the rules.

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