Ask HN: Is building an edutainment space-themed park a good idea?
31 comments
A theme park sounds like an excellent way to make a small fortune. With the caveat that you start with a large fortune. The problem is it's a real-estate play in an area that is subject to changing public tastes and the ups and downs of changing economic cycles.
The long surviving theme parks are the front end for larger organizations. Universal Studios in Orlando. Sea World as marine mammal research centers. And of course Disney's lands and worlds.
Sea World however illustrates the challenges of changing public tastes...or opinions. What seemed like evergreen content is turning out not to be.
Do you have enough money to survive an event like the pandemic?
The long surviving theme parks are the front end for larger organizations. Universal Studios in Orlando. Sea World as marine mammal research centers. And of course Disney's lands and worlds.
Sea World however illustrates the challenges of changing public tastes...or opinions. What seemed like evergreen content is turning out not to be.
Do you have enough money to survive an event like the pandemic?
> The long surviving theme parks are the front end for larger organizations. Universal Studios in Orlando. Sea World as marine mammal research centers. And of course Disney's lands and worlds.
The plan is to work in collaboration with large organisations who have interest in the out come of this type of activity.
> Do you have enough money to survive an event like the pandemic?
Event like the pandemic is the best time to start a business that takes some time to setup.
The plan is to work in collaboration with large organisations who have interest in the out come of this type of activity.
> Do you have enough money to survive an event like the pandemic?
Event like the pandemic is the best time to start a business that takes some time to setup.
If it's not fun, kids get bored very quickly. Even a classic "egg drop" experiment with masking tape, balloons and cardboard is more engaging than the artificial.
State of the art in edutainment looks like the upcoming Crayola IDEAworks exhibit at Philly's Franklin Institute. The focus isn't on "the science". But creativity, experimentation, problem-solving and design. It's universal. Multicultural. Multi-generation.
And yes, it's a branded experience. With the obligatory gift shop where they expect to sell plenty of crayons, colored pencils and magic markers. I recall being in London when the Wizarding World of Harry Potter just opened and the waitlist for tix was like six months ;)
https://www.fi.edu/exhibit/crayola-ideaworks
State of the art in edutainment looks like the upcoming Crayola IDEAworks exhibit at Philly's Franklin Institute. The focus isn't on "the science". But creativity, experimentation, problem-solving and design. It's universal. Multicultural. Multi-generation.
And yes, it's a branded experience. With the obligatory gift shop where they expect to sell plenty of crayons, colored pencils and magic markers. I recall being in London when the Wizarding World of Harry Potter just opened and the waitlist for tix was like six months ;)
https://www.fi.edu/exhibit/crayola-ideaworks
> If it's not fun, kids get bored very quickly.
Yes, this is our experience as well when we built a space park in India. We had to add some element of entertainment. It becomes immediately evident when kids visit the park who among them are interested in the education side and who are interested on the non-educational/entertainment side of the project.
Yes, this is our experience as well when we built a space park in India. We had to add some element of entertainment. It becomes immediately evident when kids visit the park who among them are interested in the education side and who are interested on the non-educational/entertainment side of the project.
The Christa McAuliffe center has a neat spaceship simulation where students perform different crew roles onboard, doing different hands-on scientific tasks. I went in 6th grade on a field trip, and my job was capturing (a computer mini-game), reassembling (it was like snap circuits), and relaunching the probe. Is this something like your idea?
> Is this something like your idea?
Yes, part of it will have elements of this. But it cannot be limited to just education as lot of kids get bored easily. So it will have some element of gamification and entertainment.
Yes, part of it will have elements of this. But it cannot be limited to just education as lot of kids get bored easily. So it will have some element of gamification and entertainment.
Just in case you're not already familiar with it - there's a niche sub-genre of games called "bridge simulators" that involve co-operative team play on a simulated starship bridge. Each player taking a different crew station (sensors, navigation, weapons, that sort of thing), plus a commander running the show - they all have to work together to complete "missions".
It's basically a game version of the bridge scenes you see on sci-fi shows like Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica.
Artemis Bridge Simulator is probably the best known one (though quite long in the tooth at this stage), there are a few others like Starship Horizons or Empty Epsilon.
This community should be a good source of info on the topic: https://bridgesim.net/
They're sometimes used for educational and team-building purposes too - e.g. those "space camps" popular in the US that other users have mentioned here.
This one in particular seems geared towards that use case: https://thoriumsim.com/docs/overview
It's basically a game version of the bridge scenes you see on sci-fi shows like Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica.
Artemis Bridge Simulator is probably the best known one (though quite long in the tooth at this stage), there are a few others like Starship Horizons or Empty Epsilon.
This community should be a good source of info on the topic: https://bridgesim.net/
They're sometimes used for educational and team-building purposes too - e.g. those "space camps" popular in the US that other users have mentioned here.
This one in particular seems geared towards that use case: https://thoriumsim.com/docs/overview
Thank you for the info and links! This is very helpful.
VR has been "the next great thing" for at least 20 years but still isn't popular with the mainstream because of the vision and dizziness problems it creates for a lot of people, and also because the UI's have been generally terrible. I think these problems would be exacerbated by having an audience of children. It's possible that the VR stuff would get in the way of learning (at this stage in its development and acceptance) rather than contribute to it, IMHO.
DisneyQuest, Google Daydream, and Oculus have all been failures -- and DisneyQuest had Disney content and branding and was aimed squarely at kids. Also, you don't see much VR content on Steam and it's a non-starter on Xbox. These don't bode well for wide adoption of any VR product with kids.
DisneyQuest, Google Daydream, and Oculus have all been failures -- and DisneyQuest had Disney content and branding and was aimed squarely at kids. Also, you don't see much VR content on Steam and it's a non-starter on Xbox. These don't bode well for wide adoption of any VR product with kids.
This will not be just a VR park. It will have other elements. VR will be just one part of it. But you are right, we will have to take into consideration the challenges you mentioned.
Is your concept different to the National Space Centre?
https://spacecentre.co.uk/
Yes, similar to space centre. But as mentioned in the post, they are for some reason or the other not scaled after they are operational in one area. I want to change that.
Science based edutainment facilities are a well established business venture.
Best to talk to established ones if you don't want to lose your shirt reinventing the wheel.
Here's one of the oldest:
https://www.exploratorium.edu/about-us
Here's another one:
https://www.thetech.org/
Unless you've already done so?
Best to talk to established ones if you don't want to lose your shirt reinventing the wheel.
Here's one of the oldest:
https://www.exploratorium.edu/about-us
Here's another one:
https://www.thetech.org/
Unless you've already done so?
> Unless you've already done so?
No, I have just started. Ideating and talking to people.
No, I have just started. Ideating and talking to people.
Excellent! It'll be a journey.
Here's a few lists of some more people to bother :)
(I've haven't checked every single link, so...)
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mwm/sci.html
https://www.museumplanner.org/worlds-top-10-science-centers/
https://wegowithkids.com/worlds-best-science-centers-with-ki...
Here's a few lists of some more people to bother :)
(I've haven't checked every single link, so...)
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mwm/sci.html
https://www.museumplanner.org/worlds-top-10-science-centers/
https://wegowithkids.com/worlds-best-science-centers-with-ki...
> Excellent! It'll be a journey.
Yes, it will be.
> Here's a few lists of some more people to bother :)
Thank you very much for the links!
Going through some of the links on these pages, it got me thinking in what way I can build a project that will reach maximum students. One of the shortcomings of the present projects is that students have to visit these places(which is not possible for many students). It would be more useful if it was the otherway round i.e. there was a way to bring the project to the students. It is an interesting problem to solve.
Yes, it will be.
> Here's a few lists of some more people to bother :)
Thank you very much for the links!
Going through some of the links on these pages, it got me thinking in what way I can build a project that will reach maximum students. One of the shortcomings of the present projects is that students have to visit these places(which is not possible for many students). It would be more useful if it was the otherway round i.e. there was a way to bring the project to the students. It is an interesting problem to solve.
>It would be more useful if it was the otherway round i.e. there was a way to bring the project to the students.
Why do you think that?
Why do you think that?
Because not all kids are able to visit the parks. My family business in India started a space-themed park because only affluent students were able to visit NASA. So it was decided that there has to be a local park for those students who will not be able to travel to the USA. Now, this park we built is in one city, but what about those students from other cities who cannot visit the park we have built? They will be missing out on the fun aspect of education.
I think there has to be a way to bring this experience to all students irrespective of where they live and what their background is.
I am in the UK. I occasionally visit a local university. I see some really heartbreaking differences between haves and have-nots. There are few students that I saw at the university who you can immediately recognise as not from well-to-do families(they form their own group). For them, even though they are taking university education(funded by the government) they still feel they do not belong to the place. It is too late for them to blend with the crowd. If somehow I am able to provide confidence to non-affluent students from an early age, that they can afford the same facilities as other students then that will be something to be proud of.
I think there has to be a way to bring this experience to all students irrespective of where they live and what their background is.
I am in the UK. I occasionally visit a local university. I see some really heartbreaking differences between haves and have-nots. There are few students that I saw at the university who you can immediately recognise as not from well-to-do families(they form their own group). For them, even though they are taking university education(funded by the government) they still feel they do not belong to the place. It is too late for them to blend with the crowd. If somehow I am able to provide confidence to non-affluent students from an early age, that they can afford the same facilities as other students then that will be something to be proud of.
I like the idea of a 'VR park' where there is a changing repitoire of experiences, particularly approaching contact sports in intensity.
It is a major hassle though getting people suited up, you would go through gear pretty fast, and if people were taking falls without the direct use of their eyes some might get hurt.
It is a major hassle though getting people suited up, you would go through gear pretty fast, and if people were taking falls without the direct use of their eyes some might get hurt.
> It is a major hassle though getting people suited up, you would go through gear pretty fast, and if people were taking falls without the direct use of their eyes some might get hurt.
Yes, as with any other entertainment park, there will be safety requirements for this park too, but with different challenges. Those will have to be worked on as we go along with the project.
Yes, as with any other entertainment park, there will be safety requirements for this park too, but with different challenges. Those will have to be worked on as we go along with the project.
In the US there's Space Camp. Not sure of the details of it, but it's not an amusement park.
The idea came from what NASA has for tourists. And it is on similar lines to the US's Space Camp or the UK's Space Centre. But as I mentioned in my post, these centers do not scale. Not sure why; could be because they operate mostly using government funds.
I live down the road from Kennedy Space Center, and it has a fairly large scale :). It is also quite commercial, or rather the 'theme park' part of it is. By scaling, I presume you mean to spread, similar to a franchise model. Or do you mean a single park which grows really big? A little more detail about your vision might help.
Most of these kind of places have either a 'draw' or a 'museum' model. Ones which have a draw have something which is not elsewhere, which is what draws people to go there. KSC for example has rocket launches and moonshot facilities which are quite unique. A museum on the other hand can be built anywhere, even though it may contain some unique things. For STEAM it doesn't need uniqueness, just cool stuff would do. An example of that type would be www.mosi.org.
Museums are great, but in our day and age, building one is usually not a way to get rich. They often have some kind of subsidy. I don't know a ton about their finances, but most are operated as non-profits. I'm sure you could talk to someone who runs one and they'd be happy to tell you about their costs.
Having a STEAM draw might be good, but probably won't scale in a franchise fashion. However, linking up with a science institution can lend prestige, which is really important in the education/kids market. If SpaceX were to open a STEAM-themed kindergarten, parents would be fighting to get their kids in. Of course, this can also be done poorly - Florida Tech should have the prestige of being basically 'NASA school', but instead you get the grey MBA-ness of https://www.fit.edu/education-centers/locations/spaceport-ti....
The most important thing to find out if you want to scale, is what is the cost structure for existing places (i.e. how much goes to rent, salaries, exhibits, marketing, etc.). Then figure out what you are doing differently that will beat the pant off that. If you can't figure that out, you can't scale. For comparison, take a look at the cost structure of those tutoring centers (like Sylvan Learning); they do scale, but they are almost certainly not what are envisioning.
Most of these kind of places have either a 'draw' or a 'museum' model. Ones which have a draw have something which is not elsewhere, which is what draws people to go there. KSC for example has rocket launches and moonshot facilities which are quite unique. A museum on the other hand can be built anywhere, even though it may contain some unique things. For STEAM it doesn't need uniqueness, just cool stuff would do. An example of that type would be www.mosi.org.
Museums are great, but in our day and age, building one is usually not a way to get rich. They often have some kind of subsidy. I don't know a ton about their finances, but most are operated as non-profits. I'm sure you could talk to someone who runs one and they'd be happy to tell you about their costs.
Having a STEAM draw might be good, but probably won't scale in a franchise fashion. However, linking up with a science institution can lend prestige, which is really important in the education/kids market. If SpaceX were to open a STEAM-themed kindergarten, parents would be fighting to get their kids in. Of course, this can also be done poorly - Florida Tech should have the prestige of being basically 'NASA school', but instead you get the grey MBA-ness of https://www.fit.edu/education-centers/locations/spaceport-ti....
The most important thing to find out if you want to scale, is what is the cost structure for existing places (i.e. how much goes to rent, salaries, exhibits, marketing, etc.). Then figure out what you are doing differently that will beat the pant off that. If you can't figure that out, you can't scale. For comparison, take a look at the cost structure of those tutoring centers (like Sylvan Learning); they do scale, but they are almost certainly not what are envisioning.
> By scaling, I presume you mean to spread, similar to a franchise model.
Yes, that is what I meant.
> KSC for example has rocket launches and moonshot facilities which are quite unique.
Translating this uniqueness across different location is what is required. And this doesn't seem to be happening. And that is what I am trying to find out whether mini-space-related projects, AR, VR and MR can help.
> Museums are great, but in our day and age, building one is usually not a way to get rich.
Museums will be a small part of the project to provide historical information.
> Having a STEAM draw might be good, but probably won't scale in a franchise fashion.
That is why the project will not just be education, but entertainment coupled with education. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy as they say.
> linking up with a science institution can lend prestige
I am also thinking on these lines.
And thank you for the detailed writeup! Really very helpful.
Yes, that is what I meant.
> KSC for example has rocket launches and moonshot facilities which are quite unique.
Translating this uniqueness across different location is what is required. And this doesn't seem to be happening. And that is what I am trying to find out whether mini-space-related projects, AR, VR and MR can help.
> Museums are great, but in our day and age, building one is usually not a way to get rich.
Museums will be a small part of the project to provide historical information.
> Having a STEAM draw might be good, but probably won't scale in a franchise fashion.
That is why the project will not just be education, but entertainment coupled with education. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy as they say.
> linking up with a science institution can lend prestige
I am also thinking on these lines.
And thank you for the detailed writeup! Really very helpful.
The problem with a unique facility is that there really can be only one... although it sounds like you are thinking more of a unique experience. I think it might be helpful to your project to look into the financials of places like Chuck E. Cheese or Dave and Busters. These places provide fairly unique fun experiences while having a lot of investment into entertainment equipment. And yet they are able to make money, which makes it scalable.
Good luck with your project! Where in the UK are you thinking of building it?
Good luck with your project! Where in the UK are you thinking of building it?
> Where in the UK are you thinking of building it?
Cornwall
Cornwall
Is it like the 80s film with Kate capshaw
Like this one? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091993
That would be super fun :)
That would be super fun :)
Yeah that one. Joaquin phoenix first film when he was called leaf pheonix
I liked it when I was a kid
I liked it when I was a kid
Don't bet on governments solving the pandemic.
Pandemic is not going to last forever. Also this is the right time to kickstart projects such as these because that will generate employment. And once pandemic is over the project will be ready(or near ready) to operate. Most successful businesses start during the downturn.
This idea is not new. But the vision is to try to scale it commercially(once the initial project is complete) which most of the government funded parks don't do.
Would like your views on this approach of blending edutainment park with STEAM subjects. Would you encourage/support this type of project? If not, why not? If you were to build this, what would you build? Any other feedback, suggestions, comments and advice?
Also, I am open for collaborating on this project with others. If you want to join me on this journey then do send me an email: [email protected]
I am in the UK, but also open to working with people from outside UK.