Curio – Notebook application for note-taking and research(zengobi.com)
zengobi.com
Curio – Notebook application for note-taking and research
https://www.zengobi.com/curio/
43 comments
The biggest hurdle with these systems is the underlying data storage format/mechanism MUST be usable beyond the life of the application. If someone is to invest heavily into using this product they have much to lose if the app stops being supported and is closed source. I am extremely impressed at how much functionality tools like Obsidian are able to achieve with just plain text markdown + plugins.
This is the exact reason why I have settled on Obsidian. I just cannot feel comfortable with investing my intellectual life's work into a system that has no clean exit path.
This is also why I'm looking forward to trying to use the Digital Marketplaces Act to demand API/Docs for the content of my Apple Notes. Its very easy to use on my devices, but the format lock in is unacceptable. I want to be able to just sketch some random written thoughts before incorporating them into Obsidian later, but the new format is pretty obtuse and makes this pretty hard. I actively avoid using it due to the data lock in, which is a shame since it works so well with the pencil on the iPad.
This is also why I'm looking forward to trying to use the Digital Marketplaces Act to demand API/Docs for the content of my Apple Notes. Its very easy to use on my devices, but the format lock in is unacceptable. I want to be able to just sketch some random written thoughts before incorporating them into Obsidian later, but the new format is pretty obtuse and makes this pretty hard. I actively avoid using it due to the data lock in, which is a shame since it works so well with the pencil on the iPad.
Clean exit path, excellent way of looking at it!
Curio stores assets as files within the project by default. It's browsable and pretty readable. You can also configure it to leave the assets in place on the file system and just point to them so you can manage those yourself if you want. You can export the project as HTML if you want and walk through the project in a web browser with the underlying assets available.
If you have something better in mind in terms of exporting or data storage you can request that. I've emailed the main developer (George, george _at_ zengobi dot com) and he responds personally pretty quickly.
If you have something better in mind in terms of exporting or data storage you can request that. I've emailed the main developer (George, george _at_ zengobi dot com) and he responds personally pretty quickly.
This risk assessment is a bit off. It would be very difficult for Curio or supported hardware to disappear. The curio project format has the information and isn’t user-hostile, if it did happen.
It is understandable to have the opinion that a plain-text-based app has just as much utility, especially as a heavy user of Obsidian and light user of more specialized and deeply developed apps.
It is understandable to have the opinion that a plain-text-based app has just as much utility, especially as a heavy user of Obsidian and light user of more specialized and deeply developed apps.
Also, the app has been updated for about 2 decades, so it’s more certain to continue being developed.
If you want to quickly check out, I'm working on a tool that works using a "generic" filesystem/files/folders to build a note-taking app, so even if you stop using the app, your stuff is still there in a normal format that can be extended with something like vim, Emacs, Sublime, VSCode, ??? etc.
https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook
https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook
Sounds intriguing but the demo is a gray screen on Firefox Android.
That's why I use Emacs and org-mode, it's been there in the open for 40 years. I expect it to be there for 40 more.
Granted, I've become addicted to Jupyter, but of course it has its limitations. I also use EverNote, and have messed with OneNote, but the thing that keeps bringing me back to Jupyter with all of its flaws, is the ability to insert a code cell and have my notes "do" something. Otherwise I have to either insert a link to my code or copy/paste.
This is even for doing something at home like figuring the dimensions of a woodworking project, etc.
Either I'm a freak and the only person interested in this, or it's an idea that would revolutionize note-taking, or something in between.
This is even for doing something at home like figuring the dimensions of a woodworking project, etc.
Either I'm a freak and the only person interested in this, or it's an idea that would revolutionize note-taking, or something in between.
Check out Emacs' org-babel. https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html
I like it a lot more than Jupyter because Org mode is more text-driven, but I can easily insert code blocks and execute them with Babel. The literate programming features are quite interesting as well.
I like it a lot more than Jupyter because Org mode is more text-driven, but I can easily insert code blocks and execute them with Babel. The literate programming features are quite interesting as well.
Yeah, this is one of the reasons I prefer Org. Notes should be dynamic and living and generated and hyperlinked!
OneNote can do simple calculations for you: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/insert-and-calcul...
Interesting concept. It's a shame this is macOS only.
Reminds me of Scrivener, which I used for years. I use OneNote now. OneNote is so much better and integrates nicely with Windows. Curio looks a lot like Scrivener.
Scrivener came to mind for me as well. I've adopted Emacs' org-mode as my Linux-friendly Scrivener replacement and I like it a lot.
OneNote is pretty nice and was my go-to app on iPad for infinite whiteboard notes until I discovered ZoomNotes, the other app Curio made me think of.
OneNote is pretty nice and was my go-to app on iPad for infinite whiteboard notes until I discovered ZoomNotes, the other app Curio made me think of.
Scrivener, OneNote and Curio have different primary use cases.
I understand that. I journal and do my own research and I try to write other stuff sometimes. I am looking for a piece of software to organize my findings, thoughts, and capture my writing and other things. They can all be used off of their main purpose, and I have found it helpful. I like OneNote's mixed media in notebook style, but then again, I was in love with Mathematica's notebook format (long before Jupyter and the rest) many years ago. I will have to evaluate Curio further, but at the end of the day, sometimes my pen and journal are my all time favorite for stream of consciousness with some forethought to the writing being "permanent" and not so easily 'backspaced', 'deleted', or 'spell-checked' or 'grammar checked', and best of all, no popups!
This is a solid project OP, creating a note taking app with so many options and yet not make it feel cluttered(even if it looks like it) is very difficult. Kudos to your team to building something thats so well thought out but heres my thoughts about note taking in general.
I use OneNote and Obsidian, and I am unable to stick to one mostly because OneNote's free form structure is really helpful in brainstorming, creating notes and doing research. Most of my notebooks and pages are filled with research sub pages and a final page that distills all that. So for me from quick note taking to creating well filled noteboks, OneNote does most of it. But it lacks a way to inter connect the notes, yes [[]] exists but its not that good once you try connecting more things and OneNote's search is just very basic.
But Obsidian's interconnected and search feature is really well done to create polished notes. So I end up using that too for creating my final notes. Also markdown is just beautiful.
I see a bit of both is happening in Curio but I am not a fan of all the plugins and integrations it seems to be having (based on screenshots and demos). This is a no no for me, it just makes porting or even exporting notes elsewhere really difficult as the context is lost.
The whole idea of creating Notes and its app is the way you start using it based on the App's features and if that app is making me re structure the way I create notes then it should also have a way to work off context devoid of its features. I understand Curio is trying to be and one Notebook App to rule'em all but this makes it really difficult for me to switch mostly because it will change my behavior and not make it easy to leave the platform or app when I need to. There are so many rudimentary methods of consuming your notes like emailing, printing, sharing for review etc and with Curio without the visual charm those exported notes might not have the same feel or experience.
I am still new to digital note taking, I still do a lot of quick notes in my notebook whenever a notebook is around so I might not be seeing the big picture with digital note apps so my opinion here might have a lot of shortcomings as my experience with note taking is just very short.
I use OneNote and Obsidian, and I am unable to stick to one mostly because OneNote's free form structure is really helpful in brainstorming, creating notes and doing research. Most of my notebooks and pages are filled with research sub pages and a final page that distills all that. So for me from quick note taking to creating well filled noteboks, OneNote does most of it. But it lacks a way to inter connect the notes, yes [[]] exists but its not that good once you try connecting more things and OneNote's search is just very basic.
But Obsidian's interconnected and search feature is really well done to create polished notes. So I end up using that too for creating my final notes. Also markdown is just beautiful.
I see a bit of both is happening in Curio but I am not a fan of all the plugins and integrations it seems to be having (based on screenshots and demos). This is a no no for me, it just makes porting or even exporting notes elsewhere really difficult as the context is lost.
The whole idea of creating Notes and its app is the way you start using it based on the App's features and if that app is making me re structure the way I create notes then it should also have a way to work off context devoid of its features. I understand Curio is trying to be and one Notebook App to rule'em all but this makes it really difficult for me to switch mostly because it will change my behavior and not make it easy to leave the platform or app when I need to. There are so many rudimentary methods of consuming your notes like emailing, printing, sharing for review etc and with Curio without the visual charm those exported notes might not have the same feel or experience.
I am still new to digital note taking, I still do a lot of quick notes in my notebook whenever a notebook is around so I might not be seeing the big picture with digital note apps so my opinion here might have a lot of shortcomings as my experience with note taking is just very short.
I’ve tried this app a few times over the last few years, I really wanted to like it.
My main issue with Curio across all versions has been that all the defaults for colors, fonts, layout, etc. are just hideous, garish, horribly outdated, in very poor taste.
You can add all kinds of elements such as shapes, graphs, lists, etc., and there are different preset styles for each element, but everything looks like something from Office 97. Every single color is wrong.
You can see this in the screenshots and the videos on the front page. There isn’t a single element on any of the screens that doesn’t have at least one thing wrong with it, like too dark drop shadows, too thick outlines, too thin fonts, arbitrary color choices that don’t match.
There’s a ton of thought and polish going into the UX, but as great as it is to use, it’s just way too easy to make something distractingly ugly, and almost impossible to make something even remotely elegant.
My main issue with Curio across all versions has been that all the defaults for colors, fonts, layout, etc. are just hideous, garish, horribly outdated, in very poor taste.
You can add all kinds of elements such as shapes, graphs, lists, etc., and there are different preset styles for each element, but everything looks like something from Office 97. Every single color is wrong.
You can see this in the screenshots and the videos on the front page. There isn’t a single element on any of the screens that doesn’t have at least one thing wrong with it, like too dark drop shadows, too thick outlines, too thin fonts, arbitrary color choices that don’t match.
There’s a ton of thought and polish going into the UX, but as great as it is to use, it’s just way too easy to make something distractingly ugly, and almost impossible to make something even remotely elegant.
AFAIK there’s not many products in this field. A type of personal database and editor to put thoughts together etc.
What are some other products that serve a similar niche? How do they differ from this?
What are some other products that serve a similar niche? How do they differ from this?
MS OneNote is popular. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it, it comes standard with office.
OneNote is OK at the note-taking part, but as far as I can tell your information ends up pretty much locked up in OneNote. It can only export in certain circumstances on certain platforms, and even then only as PDF or a proprietary ZIP format. Which is a deal-breaker, for me at least. I'm pretty sure it used to be able to export in a more portable format.
Yes, something they recently (2-3years ago) changed when they merged the Windows Store app and Desktop app.
The problem you are describing is the issue of sharing complete notebooks, but if you share pages it works quite alright.
But yes, its really annoying that most (if not all) note taking apps do not make it easy for you to import/export notes.
The problem you are describing is the issue of sharing complete notebooks, but if you share pages it works quite alright.
But yes, its really annoying that most (if not all) note taking apps do not make it easy for you to import/export notes.
I like nb[0] which is obviously super different in approach but similar in intent.
[0] https://github.com/xwmx/nb
[0] https://github.com/xwmx/nb
This is great and looks like what I'm aiming for. I wish it would support asciidoc.
Tiddlywiki is fun and useful- especially in environments where they don't let you run anything other than webpages...
Came here to see if anyone'd mention Tiddlywiki. Had a coworker who swears by it, and I'm consider using it myself. The category of "personal wiki" software seems to overlap heavily with note-taking apps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_wiki
I've been trying Zettlr
https://www.zettlr.com
The zettelkasten (German: "slip box", plural zettelkästen) is a system of note-taking and personal knowledge management used in research and study.
Introduction to the Zettelkasten Method https://zettelkasten.de/posts/overview/
Zettelkasten - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettelkasten
The zettelkasten (German: "slip box", plural zettelkästen) is a system of note-taking and personal knowledge management used in research and study.
Introduction to the Zettelkasten Method https://zettelkasten.de/posts/overview/
Zettelkasten - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettelkasten
I submitted this to HN, have no affiliation with Curio.
Don’t know any exact similar app for desktops. At least on macOS.
Maybe Figma could be used in a similar vein.
Now that I think about it, Miro has some of this functionality as well.
And there’s also DevonThink and EagleFiler, both of them serve as some sort of local database-knowledge type app.
Don’t know any exact similar app for desktops. At least on macOS.
Maybe Figma could be used in a similar vein.
Now that I think about it, Miro has some of this functionality as well.
And there’s also DevonThink and EagleFiler, both of them serve as some sort of local database-knowledge type app.
I use Liquid Text for some of the functionality in Curio.
Thanks! had not heard of it, looks very useful.
It's outstanding for reading and annotating technical books in PDF format.
Devonthink is a bit closer to plain text since the databases do store files as they are on the file system.
I believe EagleFiler is a database of some sort but maybe that’s plain text too underneath.
I believe EagleFiler is a database of some sort but maybe that’s plain text too underneath.
I'm working on a tool where it's like that ... but with a generic filesystem, so theres no lock-in.
https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook
https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook
Wow, amazing that this is still being developed with a lot of competition for a lot of that time. Curio first was released nearly 20 years ago. Devonthink started in the late 90s. and Tinderbox started in 2002. And each have huge numbers of customers that have stuck with them for decades.
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