Developers who quit the industry. Why? And what do you do now?
53 comments
Because I lost my fucking mind.
Years spent fighting at the coal face, managing to pull out miracle after miracle.
Being told to do 6 weeks of work in the next month, and still getting it done.
Requesting that next time, I get more warning, being told "that's perfectly reasonable" only to be shat on again and again.
Never being listened to, and being driven to such depths of feelings of worthlessness that I needed to leave before it drove me to suicide (and even then I came too damned close).
What do I do now?
I'm an unemployed homeless man that leaves snarky comments on the internet, as I try to drag myself back to humanity (knowing that even if I do, I can't even get as far as a technical interview).
Years spent fighting at the coal face, managing to pull out miracle after miracle.
Being told to do 6 weeks of work in the next month, and still getting it done.
Requesting that next time, I get more warning, being told "that's perfectly reasonable" only to be shat on again and again.
Never being listened to, and being driven to such depths of feelings of worthlessness that I needed to leave before it drove me to suicide (and even then I came too damned close).
What do I do now?
I'm an unemployed homeless man that leaves snarky comments on the internet, as I try to drag myself back to humanity (knowing that even if I do, I can't even get as far as a technical interview).
Do you do any freelancing?
If so what sort of experience do you have?
If so what sort of experience do you have?
I was a full stack developer for 5 years and an SDET for the next 7 and quit. I hated it. I'm a corrections officer at a maximum security prison and actually like it. I was underpaid, underappreciated, racking up credit card debt just to survive while living paycheck to paycheck. I actually had to get a second job delivering pizza. The SDET work was frustrating, stressful, disorganized, and I had no support and awful terrible team leaders and pms. This was at a large company you've probably heard of. I felt like I was in prison, now I actually am and I'm so much happier. I have savings and retirement, great credit, tons of time off, and while certainly not appreciated, I wouldn't change a thing.
I'd love to give it a go again if I could make the same or more money, work for decent people on interesting projects, work remotely, and have the same job security. I don't think it's possible.
I'd love to give it a go again if I could make the same or more money, work for decent people on interesting projects, work remotely, and have the same job security. I don't think it's possible.
I would love to hear your experiences as a corrections officer at a max sec prison. Any book you recommend to read about experiences at prisons?
I don't know of any books. My experiences are vast periods of boredom interspersed with quick bouts of adrenaline. I've felt mostly safe but I work at a more relaxed max. We find weapons all the time but they're almost never used. I've only been almost assaulted once but the inmate coming at me was actually pulled away by another inmate. I would have been alright though, there was plenty of staff nearby if it went that way. We talk a lot of shit about each other but when the alarm goes off everybody is on the same side.
If you want to hear about prison some pretty legit channels from the side of prisoners might be interesting. Check out Lockdown23and1 or FreshOut. I prefer stories from their side, it's free intel.
If you want to hear about prison some pretty legit channels from the side of prisoners might be interesting. Check out Lockdown23and1 or FreshOut. I prefer stories from their side, it's free intel.
askafriend(1)
I got extremely burnt out at a FAANG. Then looked at my life and realized I've been missing a lot of things. No wife or kids, overweight, not many friends, only thinking about work. When I finished work I was usually too tired ti do anything. So I quit. I have enough saved up to semi-retire but without a family it'll just be a long boring vacation.
I'm in a similar position and I'm thinking of doing something similar in the coming years. But the one that is really killing my plans is health care. If you don't mind me asking, what did you do about health insurance? Or do you just have enough saved up that its not an issue?
Haven't figured it out yet. I'm covered for this year. But long term I might have to go back to work, maybe not even in tech but just something easy to get the health insurance. It doesn't seem too expensive to pay out of pocket, I can probably do that too. The nuclear option is moving to Europe or Canada but you'd have to be able to get citizenship.
Dang, yea this very similar to my line of thinking when it comes to healthcare. Thanks for the response.
Try working as a “contractor” on less than full time hours. Say 3-4 days a week. I made the switch 2 years ago and will never go back to full time. I hadn’t worked on a side project for years prior, now I feel like I have enough energy to work on things I want to, hopefully something will become self sustaining in a few years and I can become self employed.
> Try working as a “contractor” on less than full time hours.
Is there more info about this somewhere? Sounds kind of vague, like i have no idea where to start.
The only contract jobs I had treated me as a full time employee, i just didnt get benefits
Is there more info about this somewhere? Sounds kind of vague, like i have no idea where to start.
The only contract jobs I had treated me as a full time employee, i just didnt get benefits
Sorry for context I live in Australia and the OP said he’s from the UK. Both places have Universal Health care so “full time benefits” are not really a thing here. I just started responding to recruiters that I was only interested in contract work 20-30 hours a week and increased my hourly rate by 30% to compensate for no paid leave / superannuation contributions.
What I did when I started was respond to job postings and offer the same contribution as an hourly service, using a weekly retainer of 10-20 hours (remote). It worked well. Companies are desperate for good engineers. I found they'll always push for more hours, but that's the nature of the game.
Working part time would be the next logical step and it is in my plans as well. I have dependents though so Im still waiting for the next opportunity to do so.
One colleague back in the day quit and joined his family movie-rental business. Was back at work in a couple months - couldn't take retail.
Yet another quit as VP of a successful company, started a Falafel restaurant. Still at it, still going strong.
It's all about the individual. Nobody is going to be able to guess what will work.
Yet another quit as VP of a successful company, started a Falafel restaurant. Still at it, still going strong.
It's all about the individual. Nobody is going to be able to guess what will work.
I feel very similar to you, only I'm not that well off and have dependents (which creates pressure). I hope you find something you enjoy. I'm going to browse the replies hoping I find something too, although I won't hold my breath.
Im in the same boat. I was hoping to do it sooner than later but am still hoping, without being able to hope I’d feel quite trapped. My next logical step is working 4 days a week and when/if possible 3.
You’re trading your short time on this earth for money. You’re doing it right: live below your means, get other income streams (investments/property) and live life on your own terms.
My background is in web dev too. I've been a contractor, worked for a couple of startups, a marketing agency, and started a digital agency. My experiences working in the midwestern USA have been mostly positive, though I've definitely encountered people whose motives were more selfish and potentially manipulative. I think you will encounter those people in any organization, especially corporate.
I spent five years building a little digital agency, and got to the point with my partner where we were able to hire a few employees. I took a pay cut for it but it was an incredible growth experience. Agencies are fun because they expose you to a lot of different people and business models. And you can choose who you want to work with, at least to some extent. I will say, most of our work came through our close network initially. Networking and building relationships is essential if you decide to go out on your own.
I've learned that even working on boring projects or with more difficult clients can be fulfilling with the right mindset. For me that was a service mindset. Even if it's not the most impactful work, the way I show up for my clients can make an important difference in their lives and in their ability to carry out their mission. It might seem small, like just making their professional life a little more convenient, but the ripple effect can be huge. A little bit of kindness can change someone's day and ripple out into their lives and the lives of the people surrounding them.
I left my company last year and took some time off to experiment with new avenues: building software, physical engineering, writing... I thought I might start something more on the software side but after really digging into my values I realized that what is most meaningful to me is to be a helper. I owe so much of my success to being growth-oriented and I want to help others with what I've learned along the way. I started teaching at a local university and joined a leadership coaching certification program which I've since completed. I do a little bit of software contracting on the side but most of my time now is spent developing content and coaching.
Hopefully sharing my story is helpful. Best of luck to you!
P.S. Try searching HN for "left tech" or "quit tech" and you will find similar threads that you might find insightful - https://hn.algolia.com
I spent five years building a little digital agency, and got to the point with my partner where we were able to hire a few employees. I took a pay cut for it but it was an incredible growth experience. Agencies are fun because they expose you to a lot of different people and business models. And you can choose who you want to work with, at least to some extent. I will say, most of our work came through our close network initially. Networking and building relationships is essential if you decide to go out on your own.
I've learned that even working on boring projects or with more difficult clients can be fulfilling with the right mindset. For me that was a service mindset. Even if it's not the most impactful work, the way I show up for my clients can make an important difference in their lives and in their ability to carry out their mission. It might seem small, like just making their professional life a little more convenient, but the ripple effect can be huge. A little bit of kindness can change someone's day and ripple out into their lives and the lives of the people surrounding them.
I left my company last year and took some time off to experiment with new avenues: building software, physical engineering, writing... I thought I might start something more on the software side but after really digging into my values I realized that what is most meaningful to me is to be a helper. I owe so much of my success to being growth-oriented and I want to help others with what I've learned along the way. I started teaching at a local university and joined a leadership coaching certification program which I've since completed. I do a little bit of software contracting on the side but most of my time now is spent developing content and coaching.
Hopefully sharing my story is helpful. Best of luck to you!
P.S. Try searching HN for "left tech" or "quit tech" and you will find similar threads that you might find insightful - https://hn.algolia.com
I do the work of Product designer / UX designer / full-stack "engineer" at a research hospital lab in Sydney (moved here from the US a few months ago). I work on a clinical trial, analyzing data, building databases, web apps, maintaining our website (https://phageaustralia.org) and a bunch of other things.
There's a ton of work, as I'm the only tech person here, but the pace is so different. Maybe it's a combination of working in a hospital lab and working in Sydney — everyone is so chill. Also, there's a "tall poppy syndrome" effect of — if you work too hard and show off too much, other people will get annoyed at you.
My official title is "bioinformatician" but some call it "data scientist" or "research software engineer". There's a massive lack of tech people in this space, so it shouldn't be hard to get a job like this. However, the pay is like... 1/8 of the FAANG world haha.
There's a ton of work, as I'm the only tech person here, but the pace is so different. Maybe it's a combination of working in a hospital lab and working in Sydney — everyone is so chill. Also, there's a "tall poppy syndrome" effect of — if you work too hard and show off too much, other people will get annoyed at you.
My official title is "bioinformatician" but some call it "data scientist" or "research software engineer". There's a massive lack of tech people in this space, so it shouldn't be hard to get a job like this. However, the pay is like... 1/8 of the FAANG world haha.
> I was curious what you guys who have been disillusioned by this industry have done and are doing nowadays?
In a word, gardening. It's very fulfilling. Other than that, look for ways to help people. (I haven't done very well at that so far myself, but I keep working at it.)
In a word, gardening. It's very fulfilling. Other than that, look for ways to help people. (I haven't done very well at that so far myself, but I keep working at it.)
> In a word, gardening. It's very fulfilling.
My new therapy. But i do micro-greens and then sit back and enjoy eating them once they grow. I am absolutely madly in love with micro green salads. Once i get some time i will automate some of the stuff with a nice little and some water pumps. Maybe even a few ground sensors.
My new therapy. But i do micro-greens and then sit back and enjoy eating them once they grow. I am absolutely madly in love with micro green salads. Once i get some time i will automate some of the stuff with a nice little and some water pumps. Maybe even a few ground sensors.
That sounds like so much fun! Like running your own mini micro greens grocery with a raspberry pi! Please post your project here, I'd love to see the results.
Some of us retire, which can happen at any age. Perhaps you can use your skills and relative financial comfort to, say, work for non profits and others needing web development but unable to pay big bucks. This might let you do what you like in service of better causes than data collection. Or, you can try to specialize in something niche, something that does not attract the madding crowds. Chemical or physical simulation might be examples of this. This would let you make something in a tool sense.
In the past, you might have had to move for work but WFM has changed things. So, think about the things you would like to do or things that should be done and figure out how you can do them. You could always go back to taking money from the Man.
In the past, you might have had to move for work but WFM has changed things. So, think about the things you would like to do or things that should be done and figure out how you can do them. You could always go back to taking money from the Man.
My son is a full time, employed dev who negotiated working 30 hours a week so gets full benefits. He sticks to it. Seems everyone accepts he won’t put in additional hours. Has time to pursue other things.
I’m part of Daniel Vassallo’s Small Bets community. Majority are devs who quit or plan to quit and generate income in tons of different ways (digital products, micro-SaaS, real estate, freelancing, e-commerce, content marketing, domain flipping, YouTube…). Might be worth checking out
I’m part of Daniel Vassallo’s Small Bets community. Majority are devs who quit or plan to quit and generate income in tons of different ways (digital products, micro-SaaS, real estate, freelancing, e-commerce, content marketing, domain flipping, YouTube…). Might be worth checking out
> Now that every one calls themselves a developer, bootcamps churning out devs that know the exact same thing as seniors (on paper), I'm not sure if this will drive salaries down in 5-10+ years time or would our jobs even exist then? Don't even get me started on interview processes and how high their standards have become such that you will get disqualified over minutiae.
that's pretty much how i feel. been doing it 15 years.
that's pretty much how i feel. been doing it 15 years.
I am back in the industry as a senior engineer, but I did take a two year break at one point in order to be a video game producer/designer at a small company.
I actually think maybe I should have stuck with video game production, it would have probably been more fulfilling overall, met a lot more interesting and creative people, had more fun more often, the games I'd work on would still be out there and playable in some form or another (as opposed to everything I've worked on for enterprise either being private and/or thrown away by now), less judged on 'making this thing work by the end of the two weeks or risk getting fired, and after that making this new thing work by the next two weeks or risk getting fired, and it will never end', but it felt like my tech skills were atrophying and at the time that was driving me crazy.
But I really liked that particular job and would have happily kept working there if the company didn't have a run of bad luck (and a few poor business decisions, in hindsight).
You can try something new for a while. The industry will still be there. There's a good chance you'll have to take a significant pay cut, though, like your salary could easily be 50% or less of what you're making now, depending on what your current salary is and what you'd like to try instead.
I'm not worried about bootcamps churning out developers. About fifteen years ago (might have the exact years wrong, memory is fuzzy) it was a similar situation, but universities were getting those people flooding in as computer science majors, and a good chunk of them were being filtered out and changed majors pretty quick (The professors at my university talked about it).
Programming is hard, and not a lot of people are cut out to be good software engineers, definitely not as much as there is demand for good software engineers. It's likely that a lot of those people won't be able to handle anything significant and/or won't last more than about five years in the industry (not all, I've met some great bootcamp grads, but they'd also do well if they took a few college classes if bootcamps didn't exist).
> Most weekends are spent trying to "heal" from the week, same for outside work hours.
Yeah, definitely feel you on that. I have so many games I'd love to build in my spare time, but when I have the time I just don't want to program anymore, I want to relax.
I actually think maybe I should have stuck with video game production, it would have probably been more fulfilling overall, met a lot more interesting and creative people, had more fun more often, the games I'd work on would still be out there and playable in some form or another (as opposed to everything I've worked on for enterprise either being private and/or thrown away by now), less judged on 'making this thing work by the end of the two weeks or risk getting fired, and after that making this new thing work by the next two weeks or risk getting fired, and it will never end', but it felt like my tech skills were atrophying and at the time that was driving me crazy.
But I really liked that particular job and would have happily kept working there if the company didn't have a run of bad luck (and a few poor business decisions, in hindsight).
You can try something new for a while. The industry will still be there. There's a good chance you'll have to take a significant pay cut, though, like your salary could easily be 50% or less of what you're making now, depending on what your current salary is and what you'd like to try instead.
I'm not worried about bootcamps churning out developers. About fifteen years ago (might have the exact years wrong, memory is fuzzy) it was a similar situation, but universities were getting those people flooding in as computer science majors, and a good chunk of them were being filtered out and changed majors pretty quick (The professors at my university talked about it).
Programming is hard, and not a lot of people are cut out to be good software engineers, definitely not as much as there is demand for good software engineers. It's likely that a lot of those people won't be able to handle anything significant and/or won't last more than about five years in the industry (not all, I've met some great bootcamp grads, but they'd also do well if they took a few college classes if bootcamps didn't exist).
> Most weekends are spent trying to "heal" from the week, same for outside work hours.
Yeah, definitely feel you on that. I have so many games I'd love to build in my spare time, but when I have the time I just don't want to program anymore, I want to relax.
If you are UK based, I would strongly suggest a move into the contracting world. The day rates are fantastic, and the stress is pretty low as you are contractually obligated to only work agreed hours. Less reason to get involved in work politics, higher pay and I find I am generally left alone outside of necessary meetings.
Oh thats piqued my interest. Just out of interest what type of work have you been doing? Are the fantastic day rates in WebDev, Backend or Database work and could you give me a rough figure for the day rates? Also what language are you using and how long have you been in the contracting world? Sorry for all the questions.
I tend to work with companies in Scotland due to being based in Edinburgh. I make 550-600 a day.
I do iOS development so swift primarily inside some combo swift/c# codebases.
I do iOS development so swift primarily inside some combo swift/c# codebases.
I may be one of the few but i like the new ir35 rules. Less control over working methods is great. There are many contractors that are somehow happy as disguised employees but for me the distinction it forces is great.
I'm 35 and I have roughly $400,000 saved I'm wondering if I can make that last 'forever' by moving to South East Asia.
I need to take a few years off but I wouldn't be opposed going back into engineering.
I need to take a few years off but I wouldn't be opposed going back into engineering.
You don't have to move to Asia for a cheap and decent living, you can try a modern city from the Eastern Europe or Portugal, you'll find nice communities, open with the foreigners, interesting projects, volunteering, a social and healthy life.
You should be able to make it. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/ExpatFIRE/
Seems like Indie Hackers like site but for former/wanna-be developers might be a good idea.
A dedicated site where one can explore various options, transitions, pros and cons, etc.
A dedicated site where one can explore various options, transitions, pros and cons, etc.
I quit when office jobs ceased to exist around 2020.
I mostly do open source work and study other non-software bits.
If I could get an office job I'd probably go back.
I mostly do open source work and study other non-software bits.
If I could get an office job I'd probably go back.
I'm the opposite. I hate working in an office and the politics and the commute.
Luckily for you, all of the jobs are like that now. :)
Enjoy your pod.
Enjoy your pod.
I agree with you and understand the sentiment but "all" is not quite accurate.
If you are aware of a decently paying tech job in London that is in-office (not partially remote, 2020 in office e.g. WFH is a rare, once a month kind of thing and most people don't use Zoom) I would appreciate it
The ship had sailed on
> WFH is a rare, once a month kind of thing
years ago for tech in London, way before 2020 for most businesses.
You'd be better off looking outside of London in the commuter belt or further out if you actually wanted to be in an office everyday, where everyone else is also in an office everyday. Or work in a highly regulated industry - defense, something governmental. Or something that requires you to develop against physical hardware.
> WFH is a rare, once a month kind of thing
years ago for tech in London, way before 2020 for most businesses.
You'd be better off looking outside of London in the commuter belt or further out if you actually wanted to be in an office everyday, where everyone else is also in an office everyday. Or work in a highly regulated industry - defense, something governmental. Or something that requires you to develop against physical hardware.
Nah, I'll just do my own thing, the entire reason I live in London is because I like going outside lol
Sorry. Can't speak to the situation across the pond.
I agree. LinkedIn still shows plenty of office jobs but that's only the tip of the iceberg. There are tons of "unsexy" jobs that don't show up on LinkedIn or Google.
If by pod you mean my balcony overlooking the rocky mountains. I will.
lucky sonnofa...
Get a remote job and move out here. :) Rent is expensive as fuck but the view is good.
I feel like the politics are even worse remotely. Not sure why. Maybe since there's less opportunity to be overheard, that others talk more behind your back.
Everybody are creating their own bubbles. People (rightfully) complain that social media reinforces peoples existing beliefs, yet, most people prefer to chat with colleagues they agree with and seldom cold calls the colleagues they disagree with the most.
When working in the office you may overhear some discussion. You may not agree with some decision, but you might have heard the talk leading up to it. You may even meet somebody you disagree with at the coffee machine and have an informal chat that changes the direction somewhat.
When everybody is working from home, a team of twelve might form 2-3 cliques and some lone riders. Finding common ground is harder, when it must happen in a formal online-meeting on Thursday at 2pm. and not while chatting over lunch or whatever. The boss loves it, because he can divide and conquer the previous "team mates".
When working in the office you may overhear some discussion. You may not agree with some decision, but you might have heard the talk leading up to it. You may even meet somebody you disagree with at the coffee machine and have an informal chat that changes the direction somewhat.
When everybody is working from home, a team of twelve might form 2-3 cliques and some lone riders. Finding common ground is harder, when it must happen in a formal online-meeting on Thursday at 2pm. and not while chatting over lunch or whatever. The boss loves it, because he can divide and conquer the previous "team mates".
- I've been a web dev in the UK for around 10 years now, it kills my soul. Lots of startup snakery over the years, company using and abusing you, mass-layoffs nowadays or years prior etc.
- I feel very manipulated and used in this industry behind all the smiles and creepy niceties. By managers, PMs and even other devs who are lapdogs of upper management (then those same devs get fired later for made-up reasons when they do the dirty work of management). I find it hard to genuinely trust anyone, yes, even the ones with "bring your dog to work" / "free Friday lunches!" / super-friendly staff / engineering managers who look like they read a book on how to speak like a friendly manager / other BS
- My creativity and drive to create side projects outside of work hours is gone. I don't remember the last time I coded for fun or with the intention to make money off it. Most weekends are spent trying to "heal" from the week, same for outside work hours. I get better at disengaging whenever needed nowadays though.
- On the plus side, I'm quite financially well off because of web dev and paid off my cheap mortgage (I live well below my means, super frugal, no dependents) and have 1 property I let out. I'm tempted to keep on this path as I know nothing else professionally.
- Now that every one calls themselves a developer, bootcamps churning out devs that know the exact same thing as seniors (on paper), I'm not sure if this will drive salaries down in 5-10+ years time or would our jobs even exist then? Don't even get me started on interview processes and how high their standards have become such that you will get disqualified over minutiae.
- So I do am tempted to quit, but don't know what else to do, so I was curious what you guys who have been disillusioned by this industry have done and are doing nowadays?