Pathjoy (YC S10) Offers Affordable Housecleaning With Easy Web Booking(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Pathjoy (YC S10) Offers Affordable Housecleaning With Easy Web Booking
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/16/pathjoy-launch/
28 comments
I use Pathjoy to clean my apartment and I love it. The booking process is simple and the quality of the cleaning has always been superb. Recently a second cleaner came by at the end to check up on the quality of the cleaning, which is something I've never seen from any other cleaning service. It was also a great price, I can't see myself ever switching from it.
I think there are some big problems with this latest round of "TaskRabbit for X", aggregated labor services (Cherry, GetMaid, and others). In the case of Pathjoy, the differentiation they are trying to sell is price. The technology is nothing special unless your idea of finding a house cleaner is Craig's List. Yet, is price the problem to be solved with these services? Is pushing down the price on a service like this beneficial to anyone except the aggregator?
For some TaskRabbit type tasks, especially the last minute or one-off tasks, it make a lot of sense because the transaction may not have happened otherwise. However, for these kinds of specialized labor type tasks, isn’t there some harm done to the service market through lower wages for the cleaner and inconsistent service for the customer?
Also, how does Pathjoy maintain customer loyalty? If service is a kind of “on-demand” how can you maintain consistent work for the cleaner? What is to stop the cleaner or customer from doing an “under the table deal”?
I think there could be an opportunity to “Disrupt” these older services but I’m sure lowering the price is NOT the way to a sustained business, even at scale.
For some TaskRabbit type tasks, especially the last minute or one-off tasks, it make a lot of sense because the transaction may not have happened otherwise. However, for these kinds of specialized labor type tasks, isn’t there some harm done to the service market through lower wages for the cleaner and inconsistent service for the customer?
Also, how does Pathjoy maintain customer loyalty? If service is a kind of “on-demand” how can you maintain consistent work for the cleaner? What is to stop the cleaner or customer from doing an “under the table deal”?
I think there could be an opportunity to “Disrupt” these older services but I’m sure lowering the price is NOT the way to a sustained business, even at scale.
Is there really a problem to solve here?
I have cleaners from a notable SF-based cleaning firm come every two weeks. Sure, I have to call them up if I want to reschedule or whatever but it's really no big deal.
Interacting with a human being who knows me by name isn't necessarily a bad thing, esp for something so personal like cleaning my home.
Thinking about cleaning, the issues I care more about are thing like are they using quality products like Method, are they bringing their own equipment, do they do do stuff like change my bed, is it the same person who comes every time who therefore gets to know my place and what I like.
Whether I can book an appointment on my iPhone isn't high on the list. Unlike something like Uber, I don't see how the addition of high-tech is really helping here.
I have cleaners from a notable SF-based cleaning firm come every two weeks. Sure, I have to call them up if I want to reschedule or whatever but it's really no big deal.
Interacting with a human being who knows me by name isn't necessarily a bad thing, esp for something so personal like cleaning my home.
Thinking about cleaning, the issues I care more about are thing like are they using quality products like Method, are they bringing their own equipment, do they do do stuff like change my bed, is it the same person who comes every time who therefore gets to know my place and what I like.
Whether I can book an appointment on my iPhone isn't high on the list. Unlike something like Uber, I don't see how the addition of high-tech is really helping here.
Pathjoy might be great, but at this point fluf-pieces from techcrunch about ycombinator companies make my brain turn off.
For you this is just another startup, but for the founders this is their big moment. So please show at least enough respect not to dismiss them without evaluating them.
He didn't dismiss Pathjoy. He dismissed TechCrunch. And your comment is welcome, but would be even more welcome if you applied it to every company that "launched" to HN, not just the ones you helped shepherd.
Wow. I'm definitely sorry if I've offended, but as tptacek pointed out I was talking about techcrunch's coverage which feels formulaic, bland, and unconvincing to me at this point (perhaps especially for these YC coming-out posts).
I think this is actually potentially constructive feedback, since if other people are feeling this way then it might signal a need to think about TC write-ups differently. That said, the comment received effectively zero votes, so I'm probably in the minority and can be safely ignored.
At any rate, I certainly didn't mean to dismiss Pathjoy at all. I'll be much more careful next time I comment on YC/TC.
I think this is actually potentially constructive feedback, since if other people are feeling this way then it might signal a need to think about TC write-ups differently. That said, the comment received effectively zero votes, so I'm probably in the minority and can be safely ignored.
At any rate, I certainly didn't mean to dismiss Pathjoy at all. I'll be much more careful next time I comment on YC/TC.
"Pathjoy might be great" doesn't sound like a dismissal, and these TC announcements are uninteresting to me as well. The YC startups look like widgets coming off a conveyor belt.
A little personality can go a long way.
A little personality can go a long way.
I like the trend of YC companies and other startups marrying technology (billing, scheduling, authentication) to old school service businesses. there are a number of stories of individuals doing this making 6 figures a year running these types of businesses. (see g-maids in dallas)
I'd bet that least 2x more people would use a maid service if someone did it in just the right way. I think the biggest issue to fight is procrastination and fear of uncertainty. Some kind of loss-leader promotion might pay huge dividends.
The front page is perfect and if it only said "First cleaning is on us. No upsells. No commitment. No kidding" or something I bet you'd get tons of people to try it and the LTV would make up for the acquisition costs.
The front page is perfect and if it only said "First cleaning is on us. No upsells. No commitment. No kidding" or something I bet you'd get tons of people to try it and the LTV would make up for the acquisition costs.
Reminds me of GetMaid... was on HN a week or so ago. Seems to be a similar model. I think GetMaid even used backpacks to carry cleaning supplies in dense urban areas too.
Good name, GetMaid, but I think I read it wrong at first...
I'm not sure if "housecleaning for the masses" is the ideal message. I'm willing to bet that most people either value time (already have cleaner) or money (clean their own house). You normally need a pretty big price drop to create a new segment - even 2x is not enough in my opinion.
My message would be "a better housecleaning experience, at a better price".
My message would be "a better housecleaning experience, at a better price".
I like the idea of building out a specific vertical of the "hire people for stuff" space. I wonder what's next.
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No way the $20/hour rate is going to stay that low in the Bay Area, unless they run it as a loss leader.
You cannot get any cleaning person around here for less than $30/hour. I don't think it would be possible to pay people the legal minimum wage and make profit at $20/hour.
You cannot get any cleaning person around here for less than $30/hour. I don't think it would be possible to pay people the legal minimum wage and make profit at $20/hour.
On the flipside, while not surprised at $20/hr, I read "First, she said Pathjoy is more affordable, charging only $20 an hour, compared to the $40 charged by most other cleaning services" and thought "Wow, where?", before realizing "Bay Area".
A quick look at maid services in Seattle - even from agencies showed typically $15-25/hr, certainly none charging $40/hr.
And in any case, do people really think the "value-add" of an agency for housecleaning amounts to $20/hr?
Edit: not to mention, Pathjoy's $20/hr doesn't include the $5-10 "supplies fee".
A quick look at maid services in Seattle - even from agencies showed typically $15-25/hr, certainly none charging $40/hr.
And in any case, do people really think the "value-add" of an agency for housecleaning amounts to $20/hr?
Edit: not to mention, Pathjoy's $20/hr doesn't include the $5-10 "supplies fee".
I currently pay $20/hour (in SF proper) for an independent cleaner who does an excellent job. Language barrier is a major issue tho, and I'd much rather schedule cleanings online. If minimum wage is <$10, why would it be impossible to profit off charging $20/hr?
Minimum wage is 10.24 in SF, and rising. On top of that:
* there will be refunds (grubhub gives a lot of refunds for bad food)
* they will need insurance (remember airbnb?)
* there will be legal challenges - like Uber, this kind of startup walks a fine line - if you employ 50 maids, you would usually have to provide workers comp at least, and maids seem more prone to file a claim than lots of professions
* there needs to be a margin for pathjoy
I believe you can possibly scale 20/hour maid service in parts of the country, but in the Bay, it will be at a loss or the price will rise. I really don't see how the math works any other way.
Grubhub's strategy was to raise delivery fees after they got traction, and it wouldn't surprise me if thats what pathjoy does. They will need to differentiate on something other than price though.
* there will be refunds (grubhub gives a lot of refunds for bad food)
* they will need insurance (remember airbnb?)
* there will be legal challenges - like Uber, this kind of startup walks a fine line - if you employ 50 maids, you would usually have to provide workers comp at least, and maids seem more prone to file a claim than lots of professions
* there needs to be a margin for pathjoy
I believe you can possibly scale 20/hour maid service in parts of the country, but in the Bay, it will be at a loss or the price will rise. I really don't see how the math works any other way.
Grubhub's strategy was to raise delivery fees after they got traction, and it wouldn't surprise me if thats what pathjoy does. They will need to differentiate on something other than price though.
Great points.
On the topic of working elsewhere. Large urban areas provide the best opportunity for lower cost and more efficient operations. Two things limit growth for this kind of service in smaller less dense areas. Travel and population. Both limit the number of jobs that can be requested or completed.
On the topic of working elsewhere. Large urban areas provide the best opportunity for lower cost and more efficient operations. Two things limit growth for this kind of service in smaller less dense areas. Travel and population. Both limit the number of jobs that can be requested or completed.
You're vastly overestimating the costs involved. It's common for such P2P services to take 20-30% to cover everything you've mentioned and make a profit.
Lyft takes 20% cut from drivers and faces much stiffer regulation, guarantee's drivers $18/hr, and has a $1M insurance policy. PathJoy faces smaller overhead and taking 20% should be plenty profitable.
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One more comment...
Not to be crass, but do you think that your cleaner is both a legal alien, and pays income tax? Do they prefer to be paid in cash?
One thing about PathJoy-type services is they will not be able to skirt the laws that an independent contractor can. I have hired cleaners, yard workers, handymen, etc, and for whatever reason they like getting paid in cash, and they will often even discount the services if you agree to do so.
Not to be crass, but do you think that your cleaner is both a legal alien, and pays income tax? Do they prefer to be paid in cash?
One thing about PathJoy-type services is they will not be able to skirt the laws that an independent contractor can. I have hired cleaners, yard workers, handymen, etc, and for whatever reason they like getting paid in cash, and they will often even discount the services if you agree to do so.
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I received an invite from Exec for a similar offering this week. $50/hr for 2x cleaners, reserved online, including pickup/dropoff of your house keys so you don't have to hide or give away a copy of your key.
We used Pathjoy to clean our place up last week. Worked great; price was right. We'll do it again soon.