Stack – a Haskell development tool(fpcomplete.com)
fpcomplete.com
Stack – a Haskell development tool
https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/06/announcing-first-public-beta-stack
36 comments
Are there any examples of Haskell being used to do anything really cool and useful to the average programmer. To me it seems as an esoteric language that I would simply not bother using because no one uses it and deploying it would be a headache.
"really cool and useful to the average programmer" is pretty vague and hard to answer. But I'd say that it absolutely does. Namely the ability to build things with less code and have them be MUCH more maintainable in the long run because of strong static types and purity.
Case in point: one company ported a 43k line Groovy app to 8200 lines of Haskell [1]. The resulting Haskell app also was at least 64x faster and eliminated a number of major bugs with the Groovy system. If that's not "really cool and useful to the average programmer", then I don't know what is.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Haskell has an awesome library called diagrams [2] for the construction of declarative graphics. It can construct some impressively complex images with a remarkably small amount of code [3]. The pandoc universal document converter [4] is written in Haskell. There's also the classic paper comparing Haskell, Ada, C++, and Awk [5]. I'm sure there are other really cool and useful things that I'm forgetting.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BveDrw9CwEg#t=1207
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_fCUSOn7m0
[3] http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html
[4] http://pandoc.org/
[5] http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haskel...
Case in point: one company ported a 43k line Groovy app to 8200 lines of Haskell [1]. The resulting Haskell app also was at least 64x faster and eliminated a number of major bugs with the Groovy system. If that's not "really cool and useful to the average programmer", then I don't know what is.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Haskell has an awesome library called diagrams [2] for the construction of declarative graphics. It can construct some impressively complex images with a remarkably small amount of code [3]. The pandoc universal document converter [4] is written in Haskell. There's also the classic paper comparing Haskell, Ada, C++, and Awk [5]. I'm sure there are other really cool and useful things that I'm forgetting.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BveDrw9CwEg#t=1207
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_fCUSOn7m0
[3] http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html
[4] http://pandoc.org/
[5] http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haskel...
> Are there any examples of Haskell being used to do anything really cool and useful to the average programmer.
https://code.facebook.com/posts/302060973291128/open-sourcin...
More here: https://www.fpcomplete.com/business/haskell-industry/ https://medium.com/@folsen/haskell-in-production-bdellium-1d...
> I would simply not bother using because no one uses it and deploying it would be a headache.
It's just a binary you can run on a server? There is also Halcyon:
https://halcyon.sh/tutorial/
https://code.facebook.com/posts/302060973291128/open-sourcin...
More here: https://www.fpcomplete.com/business/haskell-industry/ https://medium.com/@folsen/haskell-in-production-bdellium-1d...
> I would simply not bother using because no one uses it and deploying it would be a headache.
It's just a binary you can run on a server? There is also Halcyon:
https://halcyon.sh/tutorial/
We use Haskell for most of our backend (and hopefully frontend soon) work at Front Row: http://www.kurilin.net/post/117369543198/haskell-at-front-ro...
If you don't mind answering, which Haskell frontend are you planning to use?
I'm hoping that we can find a GHCJS-based FRP solution at some point soon. I've seen Elm in action, and it's pretty neat, same with Purescript, but I'd rather stay within legitimate Haskell for the time being.
> I'm hoping that we can find a GHCJS-based FRP solution at some point soon.
Have you tried Reflex (also there is a try-reflex[1])?
Purescript generates really concise javascript code, have you checked out Thermite[2]?
0: https://github.com/ryantrinkle/reflex 1: https://github.com/ryantrinkle/try-reflex 2: https://github.com/paf31/purescript-thermite
Have you tried Reflex (also there is a try-reflex[1])?
Purescript generates really concise javascript code, have you checked out Thermite[2]?
0: https://github.com/ryantrinkle/reflex 1: https://github.com/ryantrinkle/try-reflex 2: https://github.com/paf31/purescript-thermite
This was in the "news" just today:
Haskell-based Bicycle Parking Guidance System in Utrecht: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3959r0/haskellbased...
Haskell-based Bicycle Parking Guidance System in Utrecht: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3959r0/haskellbased...
Note that you can translate the skills you learn from Haskell to other languages. The way I write code in Python and Javascript for my day job has drastically changed after I have learned Haskell.
Do you have any good examples (yours or otherwise) of Haskell-inspired Python code?
The major change which I see is how the Python code becomes more pure. Using code which are side effect free gives me the ability to easily reason about them. I can jump in the code even after many months and easily understand them without trying hard. Using function composition to glue things makes complex system very simple.
I occasionally use the "diagrams" library to, well, draw diagrams: http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_fCUSOn7m0
To add a couple of fun points about Haskell:
* QuickCheck!
Imagine you implement some function. As a trivial example, let's say you wrote a plus operator (spelled as (+) when not being applied). One of the properties it should have is associativity.
To check whether it is associative, you can write (in the GHCI repl):
Now, the (-) operator is of course not associative, so let's see what QuickCheck says about that:
This kind of testing is called "property testing" and is an awesome way to test pure functions that finds bugs far more easily (and more thoroughly) than traditional UTs.
For more "real-worldy" examples, consider QuickChecking that your URL parse function is reversible (build back a URL from the parsed components). Ditto with any kind of parser/builder or [de-]serializer.
Most pure functions are expected to obey various laws, and QuickCheck is a great way to verify they do.
* Parallelism annotations!
Sprinkling `par` annotations on your code (or replacing `map` with `parMap`) is guaranteed not to change the semantics of your program. It may speed up (due to extra parallelism) or slow down (due to extra overhead), but it is safe to throw it around.
* Type safety
No null dereference errors (though this is finally getting to some mainstream language). Exhaustive handling of all inputs can easily be verified by the compiler. Data types that describe your data precisely and yet more concisely declared than imprecise data types in other languages. Advanced features allowing to use the type checker to get more compile-time assurances (e.g: Red Black Tree respects all the RB invariants).
* Expressiveness
The kind of abstraction power Haskell gives you is quite unique.
A nice example of this is shown in:
http://www.haskellforall.com/2013/05/program-imperatively-us...
* QuickCheck!
Imagine you implement some function. As a trivial example, let's say you wrote a plus operator (spelled as (+) when not being applied). One of the properties it should have is associativity.
To check whether it is associative, you can write (in the GHCI repl):
> import Test.QuickCheck
> let associative op x y z = (x `op` y) `op` z == x `op` (y `op` z)
> quickCheck $ associative (+)
+++ OK, passed 100 tests.
Now, the (-) operator is of course not associative, so let's see what QuickCheck says about that:
> quickCheck $ associative (-)
*** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests and 1 shrink):
0
0
1
This kind of testing is called "property testing" and is an awesome way to test pure functions that finds bugs far more easily (and more thoroughly) than traditional UTs.
For more "real-worldy" examples, consider QuickChecking that your URL parse function is reversible (build back a URL from the parsed components). Ditto with any kind of parser/builder or [de-]serializer.
Most pure functions are expected to obey various laws, and QuickCheck is a great way to verify they do.
* Parallelism annotations!
Sprinkling `par` annotations on your code (or replacing `map` with `parMap`) is guaranteed not to change the semantics of your program. It may speed up (due to extra parallelism) or slow down (due to extra overhead), but it is safe to throw it around.
* Type safety
No null dereference errors (though this is finally getting to some mainstream language). Exhaustive handling of all inputs can easily be verified by the compiler. Data types that describe your data precisely and yet more concisely declared than imprecise data types in other languages. Advanced features allowing to use the type checker to get more compile-time assurances (e.g: Red Black Tree respects all the RB invariants).
* Expressiveness
The kind of abstraction power Haskell gives you is quite unique.
A nice example of this is shown in:
http://www.haskellforall.com/2013/05/program-imperatively-us...
fireBreath target = do
lift $ putStrLn "*rawr*"
units.traversed.(around target 1.0).health -= 3
And for those not lucky enough to use Haskell - there are QuickCheck equivalents in other languages too - ScalaCheck, FSCheck etc.
You would probably also be interested in my answer to another Haskell skeptic:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9686845
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9686845
It seems like you already know the answer to your question. There are plenty of other programming-related things to learn besides programming languages, if you don't want to learn (esoteric?) programming languages. Enough to keep you busy for a lifetime.
This looks pretty cool - I hope it works. I couldn't download the ubuntu package, as download.fpcomplete.com is unreachable here. I downloaded the linux-generic package, but it seems to be a bit older, and so doesn't cope w/o a stack.yaml file.
OK - now with a stack.yaml file it's busy getting me a ghci...
cabal hell was one of the first things that really put me off haskell. I was downloading and trying to get xmonad working, but within half an hour, had a completely unusable ghc / xmonad combination. I think I was on debian, and the version of ghc that was installed wasn't compatible with the correct versions of various libs that xmonad wanted to have installed... Very frustrating.
Well, looks like installing stack does at least allow me to get a ghci up and running. That's cool. The easier getting haskell up and running becomes, the better. It's a wacky and esoteric language enough without it being hard to get going...
Interesting how programming languages "need" their own package manager these days. A bit of a pain that there's no universal one for all languages, but I guess that would be just too convenient...
OK - now with a stack.yaml file it's busy getting me a ghci...
cabal hell was one of the first things that really put me off haskell. I was downloading and trying to get xmonad working, but within half an hour, had a completely unusable ghc / xmonad combination. I think I was on debian, and the version of ghc that was installed wasn't compatible with the correct versions of various libs that xmonad wanted to have installed... Very frustrating.
Well, looks like installing stack does at least allow me to get a ghci up and running. That's cool. The easier getting haskell up and running becomes, the better. It's a wacky and esoteric language enough without it being hard to get going...
Interesting how programming languages "need" their own package manager these days. A bit of a pain that there's no universal one for all languages, but I guess that would be just too convenient...
> I couldn't download the ubuntu package, as download.fpcomplete.com is unreachable here.
download.fpcomplete.com is served directly from an S3 bucket. You can try replacing download.fpcomplete.com with s3.amazonaws.com/download.fpcomplete.com (e.g. http://s3.amazonaws.com/download.fpcomplete.com/ubuntu/fpco....), and see if that helps. Either way, I'd be interested to know who your ISP and/or if you're behind a corporate or national firewall.
download.fpcomplete.com is served directly from an S3 bucket. You can try replacing download.fpcomplete.com with s3.amazonaws.com/download.fpcomplete.com (e.g. http://s3.amazonaws.com/download.fpcomplete.com/ubuntu/fpco....), and see if that helps. Either way, I'd be interested to know who your ISP and/or if you're behind a corporate or national firewall.
No corp. firewall here - at home, in Carlisle, UK. ISP is talktalk.
>A bit of a pain that there's no universal one for all languages, but I guess that would be just too convenient...
Nix and GNU Guix are capable of filling this role. Not only can they do the things that the typical system package managers (dpkg, yum) lack, but they also do many things that language-specific package managers lack. Transactional upgrades, rollbacks, unprivileged package installation, gracefully handling multiple versions of the same software, system-wide deduplication, full system configuration (if you want to use their associated distro), etc.
I have read several Nix + Haskell success stories on various blogs, so I would say it's worth checking out. Nix and Guix are the future of package management.
Nix and GNU Guix are capable of filling this role. Not only can they do the things that the typical system package managers (dpkg, yum) lack, but they also do many things that language-specific package managers lack. Transactional upgrades, rollbacks, unprivileged package installation, gracefully handling multiple versions of the same software, system-wide deduplication, full system configuration (if you want to use their associated distro), etc.
I have read several Nix + Haskell success stories on various blogs, so I would say it's worth checking out. Nix and Guix are the future of package management.
Nix is pretty great.
Something to be aware of for Haskell: Nix's Haskell infrastructure has gone through a big breaking change recently. It's settled down now, and the new system (AKA "haskell NG") is much nicer, but all of the "stable" releases are using the old system, and a lot of blog posts, etc. online are now out of date.
Something to be aware of for Haskell: Nix's Haskell infrastructure has gone through a big breaking change recently. It's settled down now, and the new system (AKA "haskell NG") is much nicer, but all of the "stable" releases are using the old system, and a lot of blog posts, etc. online are now out of date.
Do you have any links on how the new system is supposed to work? I'm trying to piece it together and I'm not having much luck.
As I understand it, the corresponding section of the nixpkgs manual is being written as we speak; when this is done, it should reflect the new haskell infrastructure which was merged a few months ago (no longer called haskell-ng any more btw). In the meantime, here are a few links to get you started:
https://twitter.com/garbas/status/601717689225187328 -- a recent presentation w/ accompanying slides introducing Nix's new haskell infrastructure by github.com/peti, the maintainer
https://nixos.org/wiki/Haskell
http://wiki.ocharles.org.uk/Nix
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29033580/how-do-i-use-the...
https://twitter.com/garbas/status/601717689225187328 -- a recent presentation w/ accompanying slides introducing Nix's new haskell infrastructure by github.com/peti, the maintainer
https://nixos.org/wiki/Haskell
http://wiki.ocharles.org.uk/Nix
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29033580/how-do-i-use-the...
The ocharles link is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks so much.
Nix wiki lists some: https://nixos.org/wiki/Haskell#Other_resources.
How anybody give some good comparison with Halcyon?
Halcyon author here. Here’s a couple of my thoughts:
http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3957e1/announcing_f...
http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3957e1/announcing_f...
Hmm...
$ cabal install stack
Resolving dependencies...
Configuring stack-0.0.1...
Building stack-0.0.1...
Failed to install stack-0.0.1
Build log ( /Users/Tyilo/.cabal/logs/stack-0.0.1.log ):
Configuring stack-0.0.1...
Building stack-0.0.1...
Preprocessing library stack-0.0.1...
...
[45 of 45] Compiling Stack.Config ( src/Stack/Config.hs, dist/build/Stack/Config.o )
ghc: panic! (the 'impossible' happened)
(GHC version 7.10.1 for x86_64-apple-darwin):
Loading temp shared object failed: dlopen(/var/folders/db/kt60mzx93p110r61jzjbf3nw0000gn/T/ghc19215_0/libghc19215_228.dylib, 5): Symbol not found: _stackzuIf4F8EsotzzFA5770kfJV6V_StackziTypesziFlagName_zdfBinaryFlagName_closure
Referenced from: /var/folders/db/kt60mzx93p110r61jzjbf3nw0000gn/T/ghc19215_0/libghc19215_228.dylib
Expected in: flat namespace
in /var/folders/db/kt60mzx93p110r61jzjbf3nw0000gn/T/ghc19215_0/libghc19215_228.dylib
Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug
cabal: Error: some packages failed to install:
stack-0.0.1 failed during the building phase. The exception was:
ExitFailure 1This is a bug in GHC 7.10.1 on OS X: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/10322. Until GHC 7.10.2 is released, we recommend building with 7.8.4 on Mac.
The earlier you see failure, the luckier you are. The haskellverse is jammed packed with popular packages that won't build and run properly on your platform.
Nothing quite works except for small toy projects and Haskell +systems whizzes who can dig into native platform arcana.
Nothing quite works except for small toy projects and Haskell +systems whizzes who can dig into native platform arcana.
> The haskellverse is jammed packed with popular packages that won't build and run properly on your platform
This tool is aimed at fixing that, ironically the GP used cabal in an attempt to install a tool fixing cabals problems.
> Nothing quite works except for small toy projects and Haskell +systems whizzes who can dig into native platform arcana.
Not true. Did you have a bad experience building a Haskell package for a specific platform in the past? Stack might let you install it all seamlessly, you should give it a try :)
I recommend installing one of their binaries though: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/wiki/Downloads
This tool is aimed at fixing that, ironically the GP used cabal in an attempt to install a tool fixing cabals problems.
> Nothing quite works except for small toy projects and Haskell +systems whizzes who can dig into native platform arcana.
Not true. Did you have a bad experience building a Haskell package for a specific platform in the past? Stack might let you install it all seamlessly, you should give it a try :)
I recommend installing one of their binaries though: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/wiki/Downloads