CES Was Full of Useless Robots and Machines That Don’t Work(thedailybeast.com)
thedailybeast.com
CES Was Full of Useless Robots and Machines That Don’t Work
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ces-was-full-of-useless-robots-and-machines-that-dont-work
473 comments
> I can vacuum my floor by myself
If you're in the HN demographic that likes to live in small urban apartments then you may not see value in automated vacuuming, but believe me they are filling a need for many people. My 68 year old mom decided to get one last year, prompted by discussions with several of her friends. She loves it so much that she's become something of a Roomba evangelical - last I checked she's talked 4-5 other people into getting one, and they all love them.
I don't even have a large house (~1200 sq ft), but I do have a cat. The whole ordeal of vacuuming probably took me at least 45 min to an hour every week, and often it didn't get done weekly. Getting a Roomba was amazing for me. It runs on a schedule twice a week, and I only spend a couple minutes dumping its dustbin.
If you're in the HN demographic that likes to live in small urban apartments then you may not see value in automated vacuuming, but believe me they are filling a need for many people. My 68 year old mom decided to get one last year, prompted by discussions with several of her friends. She loves it so much that she's become something of a Roomba evangelical - last I checked she's talked 4-5 other people into getting one, and they all love them.
I don't even have a large house (~1200 sq ft), but I do have a cat. The whole ordeal of vacuuming probably took me at least 45 min to an hour every week, and often it didn't get done weekly. Getting a Roomba was amazing for me. It runs on a schedule twice a week, and I only spend a couple minutes dumping its dustbin.
The main dust-trap in our house is the carpeted stairs. Since I have to drag a vacuum out to do those I might as well do the rest of the house whilst I'm at it.
I suppose I could have a Roomba that I moved up and down the storeys on alternating days, plus a manual vacuum cleaner solely for the stairs, but that seems to be defeating the point of robotics.
I suppose I could have a Roomba that I moved up and down the storeys on alternating days, plus a manual vacuum cleaner solely for the stairs, but that seems to be defeating the point of robotics.
> Since I have to drag a vacuum out to do those I might as well do the rest
My parents have gotten themselves a back-pack style vacuum cleaner. It's not the prettiest thing, but it makes it very easy to vacuum stairs, and very very easy to play Ghostbuster.
My parents have gotten themselves a back-pack style vacuum cleaner. It's not the prettiest thing, but it makes it very easy to vacuum stairs, and very very easy to play Ghostbuster.
Could just use one of those hand vacuum cleaners that people use to clean cars. They're good enough to clean my stairs twice a week, at least.
I move my vacuum robot up and down stairs as needed. I'm not _quite_ lazy enough to buy a second one for upstairs (but I _have_ considered it, I use an inexpensive Chinese knockoff, not a brand-name-priced Roomba...)
Are the Chinese knock-offs any good? I just looked up the price of a Roomba. $600 AUD to start for the shittiest model :(
I'm surprised at the good reviews of the Roomba here. I got one a few years, and found it basically worthless. Everyday I'd come home and find the inventive way my Roomba had discovered to fail. Somedays it would get stuck on a chair leg, other times it would get trapped behind doors, or I'd just discover it dead somewhere without a clear explanation.
I had been hoping the Roomba would make my apartment and sweep it intelligently, but as near as I could tell, the Roomba just moved at random. I also found the power of the Roomba was weak. Inspecting my floor afterwards, I'd frequently find the same kind of lint, or detritus that made me want a Roomba in the first place.
Maybe I was just unlucky, or had a bad living space for a Roomba, but in my experience they aren't worth it at all.
I had been hoping the Roomba would make my apartment and sweep it intelligently, but as near as I could tell, the Roomba just moved at random. I also found the power of the Roomba was weak. Inspecting my floor afterwards, I'd frequently find the same kind of lint, or detritus that made me want a Roomba in the first place.
Maybe I was just unlucky, or had a bad living space for a Roomba, but in my experience they aren't worth it at all.
I have a "Eufy robovac" I bought off Amazon and it works pretty great if you can accept a bunch of limitations.
It has no app and setting up any sort of non-trivial schedule using the simple remote that comes with it is very hard.
It never manages to find its way back to the charging station, so you have to find it and carry it back yourself each time.
It has no 'memory' so it has to learn the space it's in each time you start it and it doesn't know what it has and hasn't cleaned.
Beyond that it just works. I don't bother with scheduling. I just turn it on when I'm on my way out the door every other day or so and just let it get to work.
It has no app and setting up any sort of non-trivial schedule using the simple remote that comes with it is very hard.
It never manages to find its way back to the charging station, so you have to find it and carry it back yourself each time.
It has no 'memory' so it has to learn the space it's in each time you start it and it doesn't know what it has and hasn't cleaned.
Beyond that it just works. I don't bother with scheduling. I just turn it on when I'm on my way out the door every other day or so and just let it get to work.
2nd this Eufy robovac. I looked at the others, and since Eufy is Anker, went with them because of better service and battery life.
I don't think any of the others, including the 4x priced Roomba are any better at navigating my house. The sensors don't seem to work well on black floors, and there are places you will have to block so you don't have it getting stuck often. Once you've figured those two things out in your house, it's push button vacuuming with the $200 Eufy.
I don't think any of the others, including the 4x priced Roomba are any better at navigating my house. The sensors don't seem to work well on black floors, and there are places you will have to block so you don't have it getting stuck often. Once you've figured those two things out in your house, it's push button vacuuming with the $200 Eufy.
There are a few people at my workplace that swear by this guy [1]. Last time I checked you had to jump through some hoops to get the app to render in English, but there are YouTube tutorials to walk you through it.
[1] https://www.productreview.com.au/p/xiaomi-mi-robot-vacuum.ht...
[1] https://www.productreview.com.au/p/xiaomi-mi-robot-vacuum.ht...
I grabbed an iLife brand one from (I think) gearBest on special for ~$176AUD delivered (from memory as an impulse buy while shopping for quadcopter parts...)
This one: https://www.gearbest.com/smart-home/pp_187246.html
Turns out it's a few weeks short of 2 years old now, and it's still going strong. (It's kinda slow to charge, but at least thats kind to the batteries.)
It works fine for me - and I've had friends who've got real Roombas who say theirs doesn't work as well. I _think_ you sometimes get lucky with the wheels/traction and your particular carpet - mine does it's least-good job in the most rarely used room (spare bedroom) where the carpet is fluffier. It occasionally gets "trapped" in there. But I probably wouldn't have ever pulled the trigger at a $600 pricepoint.
This one: https://www.gearbest.com/smart-home/pp_187246.html
Turns out it's a few weeks short of 2 years old now, and it's still going strong. (It's kinda slow to charge, but at least thats kind to the batteries.)
It works fine for me - and I've had friends who've got real Roombas who say theirs doesn't work as well. I _think_ you sometimes get lucky with the wheels/traction and your particular carpet - mine does it's least-good job in the most rarely used room (spare bedroom) where the carpet is fluffier. It occasionally gets "trapped" in there. But I probably wouldn't have ever pulled the trigger at a $600 pricepoint.
Had my Roomba 780 for five years and the lifting handle broke a few weeks prior to the 5y warranty expiry.
I got it dirt cheap using a price match, included 5y warranty. Will see if they replace or fix it... But overall very happy with my purchase.
Replaced the battery once with a higher capacity one; does a great job, can go for hours, always love the result. Bit noisy, so best to run when out.
You have to look after it by cleaning the rollers and dust bin etc, but yeah, it's a very solid build.
Mate has the new one and it creates a spookily accurate floorplan. Pretty cool to see the advancements made.
I got it dirt cheap using a price match, included 5y warranty. Will see if they replace or fix it... But overall very happy with my purchase.
Replaced the battery once with a higher capacity one; does a great job, can go for hours, always love the result. Bit noisy, so best to run when out.
You have to look after it by cleaning the rollers and dust bin etc, but yeah, it's a very solid build.
Mate has the new one and it creates a spookily accurate floorplan. Pretty cool to see the advancements made.
I'm equally pleased with the iLife A4 I got over a year ago, also from Gearbest.
I admire its design - it's a fairly simple machine that gets most everything right, including climbing carpet, being fairly quiet, not bumping hard into furniture, not falling off steps, and even returning to its charging base (on command or when battery is low after a couple hours work).
It does not have fancy magnetic barriers to close off areas, but a simple door draft stopper pillow on the floor holds it off well enough.
I admire its design - it's a fairly simple machine that gets most everything right, including climbing carpet, being fairly quiet, not bumping hard into furniture, not falling off steps, and even returning to its charging base (on command or when battery is low after a couple hours work).
It does not have fancy magnetic barriers to close off areas, but a simple door draft stopper pillow on the floor holds it off well enough.
Don't know about the knock-offs. But Ecovacs makes a line of roomba competitors that match up as well or better and cost 75% as much.
I have a couple of Aldi "robotic" vacuum cleaners.
They are excellent.
I have a first generation Xiaomi vacuum and it's amazing, at 30% of high end Roomba with comparable features
Xiaomi, the phone manufacturer?
Have a look on AliExpress or gearbest etc they make a huge range of things. I've always been happy with their stuff too, though they are getting more expensive.
The Dyson animal is a nice half way house, runs for 20 mins on a charge and because its always to hand the mental block of hauling the full size vacuum out from under stairs is gone, makes starting the job easier.
Those spot cleaning handheld carpet shampooers are also great for small places for similar reasons. Slurp up anything right when it gets spilled and rent an upright once a year. Also good for upholstery.
I'm still on the fence about whether I like our Roomba. A few things:
- we can't run it on a schedule, b/c it requires prep (moving cat food/toys, floor mats, etc)
- it's much slower than hand vacuuming, especially with our lightweight Dirt Devil (which is great for hardwood / tile but not for carpet)
- it's not all that thorough. it naturally leaves some stuff behind because it pushes some dirt / dust around while scooting around the floor
- whenever it's running we have to either hide in a different room or always be getting out of its way
- it can't get nooks and crannies smaller than itself
I will say that it's particularly useful on carpet, where I'd normally have to retrieve our very heavy standard vacuum out of the closet.
However - my wife loves it and I tolerate it. The mental hurdle of picking up a few things off the floor and pressing the "start" button is easier than actually doing it by hand. It's really best thought of as supplementary to a regular vacuum rather than a replacement.
- we can't run it on a schedule, b/c it requires prep (moving cat food/toys, floor mats, etc)
- it's much slower than hand vacuuming, especially with our lightweight Dirt Devil (which is great for hardwood / tile but not for carpet)
- it's not all that thorough. it naturally leaves some stuff behind because it pushes some dirt / dust around while scooting around the floor
- whenever it's running we have to either hide in a different room or always be getting out of its way
- it can't get nooks and crannies smaller than itself
I will say that it's particularly useful on carpet, where I'd normally have to retrieve our very heavy standard vacuum out of the closet.
However - my wife loves it and I tolerate it. The mental hurdle of picking up a few things off the floor and pressing the "start" button is easier than actually doing it by hand. It's really best thought of as supplementary to a regular vacuum rather than a replacement.
> we can't run it on a schedule, b/c it requires prep (moving cat food/toys, floor mats, etc)
If you have one of the models (I think it's the higher end ones) that supports the "lighthouse" that can do a circle, consider getting one. I have one of those by the cat's bowl, and I schedule the Roomba to start right before I leave for work so I'm reminded to go around picking up toys, etc. The cat usually sleeps most of the morning, so she normally leaves them alone long enough for the Roomba to finish.
> it's not all that thorough. it naturally leaves some stuff behind because it pushes some dirt / dust around while scooting around the floor
FWIW in my house (about 80% carpet) it does great. I was a little nervous last fall when I pulled out the upright vacuum for the first time after 3-4 months of letting the Roomba handle things, but what I got was much less than a normal week pre-Roomba.
If you have one of the models (I think it's the higher end ones) that supports the "lighthouse" that can do a circle, consider getting one. I have one of those by the cat's bowl, and I schedule the Roomba to start right before I leave for work so I'm reminded to go around picking up toys, etc. The cat usually sleeps most of the morning, so she normally leaves them alone long enough for the Roomba to finish.
> it's not all that thorough. it naturally leaves some stuff behind because it pushes some dirt / dust around while scooting around the floor
FWIW in my house (about 80% carpet) it does great. I was a little nervous last fall when I pulled out the upright vacuum for the first time after 3-4 months of letting the Roomba handle things, but what I got was much less than a normal week pre-Roomba.
I'll look into the lighthouse! And yes - I've been really happy with how it does on carpet. Most of our apartment is faux-hardwood, where it doesn't do quite as well.
The prep work on a roomba is longer than for a normal vacuum. I have to empty the tiny dust bin and clean the brushes of pet hair. It ends up being not much of a time saver. Give me a roomba that empties itself into a larger bin when charging and doesn't require cleaning it's brushes.
I get a real kick out of getting home after the vacuuming robot has been doing my housework while I'm out :-)
I'd love a similarly simple way to press a button and have my laundry done - I've seen combined washer/dryers, but I'd love something that sorted and folded everything for me...
(Interestingly, I live alone, and do not have any motivation to buy a dishwasher.)
I'd love a similarly simple way to press a button and have my laundry done - I've seen combined washer/dryers, but I'd love something that sorted and folded everything for me...
(Interestingly, I live alone, and do not have any motivation to buy a dishwasher.)
I live alone and have a “half width” dishwasher. It’s amazing at saving me time but also clutter. No dirty dishes on the bench top. The thing is on every night. Research has also shown it uses far less water and energy than hand washing.
By far the best investment I ever made for house cleaning though is a cordless Dyson vacuum. It’s mounted on the wall and I end up vacuuming (5 mins max) every day so it hardly feels like a chore.
By far the best investment I ever made for house cleaning though is a cordless Dyson vacuum. It’s mounted on the wall and I end up vacuuming (5 mins max) every day so it hardly feels like a chore.
Less water and energy, but using a brutal kind of soap that is surely more harmful to the environment than hand wash soap.
Three small squirts of handwashing liquid, fill it 2/3rds the way with baking soda, then fill the rest with cooking salt: works wonders in a dishwasher, is cheap as hell, and pretty good environment-wise.
Or you could use Ecover dishwasher products, which are a bit better.
Old-fashioned dishwasher detergents caused significant phosphate pollution, but since the regulations were changed, they're considerably less nasty.
I live alone, and you'll pry my dishwasher from my cold dead hands. If I didn't have one, I'd probably cook a lot less; it really simplifies cleaning up.
I also have a washer-dryer, though mostly for space reasons.
I also have a washer-dryer, though mostly for space reasons.
That's interesting. I feel dishwasher is one of the easiest life improvement purchases. Will depend quite a bit on how much you cook I suppose.
I would've gotten a robot vacuum ages ago too but my place has quite high doorsills, I don't think there's a device that could climb those.
I would've gotten a robot vacuum ages ago too but my place has quite high doorsills, I don't think there's a device that could climb those.
You can hire people to do that for you, you know - very flexible, can do all the things, do them while you're out of the house.
For me there, the issue is trust (and that's not intended as a slight against the people who do that kind of work -- I have family members who used to do precisely that). I just would not feel comfortable having people doing work in my home whilst I wasn't there.
Also the price point is not quite the same as appliance.
I’m in 800 sq ft apartment + cat and I would love a robot that vacuumes, but I have a mix of hard floors and high-ish pile rug which last time I checked roombas etc weren’t versatile enough to handle both.
My cat also HATES the sound of the vacuum me and makes me feel guilty every time I use it :(
My cat also HATES the sound of the vacuum me and makes me feel guilty every time I use it :(
> but I do have a cat.
This. I have animals and letting the Roomba run daily while I'm making breakfast helps keep the fur at bay until I vacuum each weekend. The Roomba does a good job getting under furniture, and having it run daily makes my weekend vacuum go much quicker.
95% of my house is on a single level so that does help.
This. I have animals and letting the Roomba run daily while I'm making breakfast helps keep the fur at bay until I vacuum each weekend. The Roomba does a good job getting under furniture, and having it run daily makes my weekend vacuum go much quicker.
95% of my house is on a single level so that does help.
I've lived in a tiny urban apartment for so long that just imagining 1200 square feet makes me agoraphobic.
> FoldiMate
Is this a joke? A machine that, when you take a piece of laundry and after de-tangling each piece (fixing inside-out/sleeves/etc) and then orienting it properly, insert it into the machine in a specific way, will fold laundry in "a few" minutes. All this for the low price of $1,000 USD and they claim to deliver in two years (which we all know will slip).
If this machine let me dump a dry bucket of laundry in the top and came out folded, that might be useful but expensive.
If it let me dump a dirty bucket of laundry in the top and it came out clean/dry/folded, that would be super useful and cheap!
Is this a joke? A machine that, when you take a piece of laundry and after de-tangling each piece (fixing inside-out/sleeves/etc) and then orienting it properly, insert it into the machine in a specific way, will fold laundry in "a few" minutes. All this for the low price of $1,000 USD and they claim to deliver in two years (which we all know will slip).
If this machine let me dump a dry bucket of laundry in the top and came out folded, that might be useful but expensive.
If it let me dump a dirty bucket of laundry in the top and it came out clean/dry/folded, that would be super useful and cheap!
I know the guy behind FoldiMate a little bit. I've met him at trade shows. One thing I have to point out is that he has pursued this dream for years. Lack of interest, team, funding ... nothing has stopped this guy. It's a really hard problem and he keeps at it. I can't say I'm rushing out to buy one myself, but there's a human story here too, and I think that's been lost in the coverage.
This makes me think... are there any special circumstances in which clothes need to be folded in such a special way and with sufficiently high throughput that this kind of machine could make headway? Oftentimes general purpose technologies can come to market only after predecessors in niche areas.
As a side comment mentioned: hotels would be an ideal case because they have a lot of standard things that need to be folded (sheets, pillow cases, towels, etc.) and sticking to those basic cases could probably bring the cost way down and reliability way up.
(But I suspect you don’t need a fancy machine for simple shapes - a simple folding wooden rig would do and be almost as quick. Hell, I’ve got a cheap plastic thing that’ll do shirts in seconds.)
(But I suspect you don’t need a fancy machine for simple shapes - a simple folding wooden rig would do and be almost as quick. Hell, I’ve got a cheap plastic thing that’ll do shirts in seconds.)
hotels would be an ideal case because they have a lot of standard things that need to be folded
Large hotels and commercial laundry operations already have expensive specialized machines for folding. This does not seem to be targeting that market.
Large hotels and commercial laundry operations already have expensive specialized machines for folding. This does not seem to be targeting that market.
> Oftentimes general purpose technologies can come to market only after predecessors in niche areas.
There are already such machines in industry (in garment-making, hotels etc). The challenge is that they are typically specialised towards specific types of garment. Nobody in industry really needs a generic machine; but that's the only configuration that the home market will consider. The only sub-niche big enough that could maybe sustain a specialised machine in the home is "shirts and trousers" - but there the real annoyance is ironing, not folding.
There are already such machines in industry (in garment-making, hotels etc). The challenge is that they are typically specialised towards specific types of garment. Nobody in industry really needs a generic machine; but that's the only configuration that the home market will consider. The only sub-niche big enough that could maybe sustain a specialised machine in the home is "shirts and trousers" - but there the real annoyance is ironing, not folding.
At some point, the better answer to is to admit that the timing and possible solutions are not viable. Think of what could be possible if that determination was applied to something else.
Maybe he could repurpose this to fold origami or something.
Perhaps he could focus on folding towels and then sell the device to the hotel/AirBnB industry?
They already exist for large hotels for things like towels.
Fairly expensive machines though, and typically can only fold 1 type of article (eg: need a machine for each towel size or spend time setting it up)
Fairly expensive machines though, and typically can only fold 1 type of article (eg: need a machine for each towel size or spend time setting it up)
So he's insane?
Most founders are, the successful ones at least.
The successful ones are insane and lucky.
With a heavy bias towards lucky (but they will usually attribute it to everything else but luck).
> but there's a human story here too, and I think that's been lost in the coverage
There's a human story behind every product.
There's a human story behind every product.
Yes, and 99% of the time it's "fuck it who cares dude lets just lie we need users". I've been at the forefront too many times. There's never been a remotely 'human story'.
That's great, unfortunately he seems to have lost perspective and is developing a product no one will want at a price no one will pay.
Laundrettes?
Maybe if you had a guy whose job was to feed clothes into it in just the right way. TBF an experienced laundry person can fold them manually, much faster.
Don't let a robot do something a human can do better.
Don't let a robot do something a human can do better.
A robot doesn't have to do something better than a human to succeed; it just has to do it well enough for us to accept the trade-off.
A good example is robot vacuum cleaners: I have had one for a few years now and it's easily the best purchase I've ever made: it doesn't vacuum as well as we do but it does it everyday which is something I'm absolutely unwilling to do. Having it in my home greatly reduced the amount of time we had to dedicate to cleaning the floor and dusting non-floor surfaces (it turns out that daily vacuuming the floor has a huge impact in the amount of dust collected everywhere else).
A good example is robot vacuum cleaners: I have had one for a few years now and it's easily the best purchase I've ever made: it doesn't vacuum as well as we do but it does it everyday which is something I'm absolutely unwilling to do. Having it in my home greatly reduced the amount of time we had to dedicate to cleaning the floor and dusting non-floor surfaces (it turns out that daily vacuuming the floor has a huge impact in the amount of dust collected everywhere else).
Why not ? Humans are still far better than robots at car manufacturing, and yet ... nobody wants to go back to that (well, none of the customers or company leaders would want the prices to rise by enough to make that possible)
Well, I guess you have to start somewhere. I'm sure his goal is to make a machine where you can just dump clothes in and they come out folded. But the technology isn't there yet and it takes time to develop. He's probably hoping he can sell a few of these useless machines and keep funding his R&D until he can build a fully functional version.
He can be the nicest and most driven guy in the world, that doesn’t change whether or not his product is any good.
You wouldn’t buy, say, a car that only got half the mileage or whatever just because there’s a human story behind it. There’s a human story behind almost everything.
You wouldn’t buy, say, a car that only got half the mileage or whatever just because there’s a human story behind it. There’s a human story behind almost everything.
I don't know if there's an equivalent in the US, but here in the UK we have a TV programme "Dragons' Den" where people pitch their business ideas - which are usually invention-based - to a panel of potential investors.
Easily the most intriguing aspect of the show is discovering the often inordinate amount of time, energy and money that the candidates have invested in what, to the disinterested outsider, appears to be a completely mad and unworkable idea: the potentially destructive power of human determination.
Easily the most intriguing aspect of the show is discovering the often inordinate amount of time, energy and money that the candidates have invested in what, to the disinterested outsider, appears to be a completely mad and unworkable idea: the potentially destructive power of human determination.
Dragons Den exists in the US (and Canada) too, I believe. There’s also Shark Tank. I quite enjoy watching Dragons Den (and Shark Tank on youtube).
I agree with your second paragraph completely. I also totally undrestand it, having cofounded startups myself in the past. You get tunnel vision.
I agree with your second paragraph completely. I also totally undrestand it, having cofounded startups myself in the past. You get tunnel vision.
"Shark Tank" is what "Dragons' Den" is known as outside of the UK. It's the same show.
Ahhhh! Thanks for the correction.
If it could do that, a 5-10k pricepoint wouldn't be a problem either.
I already have a machine that lets me dump a bucket of laundry in the top and have it come out clean/dry/folded.
It's called Washbox, and it's a locker in the atrium of my apartment building. I drop my clothes off, text the locker number to the company, and my clothes will be returned clean the next day. It is, in fact, both super useful and cheap.
I'm sure they would love to automate their washing & folding process further, but those implementation details are already well abstracted from me as the end user. If I were interested in automating laundry, it seems smarter to start by targeting industrial use by existing laundry services who will be willing to pay more per unit and put up with more quirks than a home user would.
It's called Washbox, and it's a locker in the atrium of my apartment building. I drop my clothes off, text the locker number to the company, and my clothes will be returned clean the next day. It is, in fact, both super useful and cheap.
I'm sure they would love to automate their washing & folding process further, but those implementation details are already well abstracted from me as the end user. If I were interested in automating laundry, it seems smarter to start by targeting industrial use by existing laundry services who will be willing to pay more per unit and put up with more quirks than a home user would.
Just looked at their pricing, that's a bit high...
They'd be charging me almost as much just to do wash & fold than I pay for someone to clean my whole house....
They'd be charging me almost as much just to do wash & fold than I pay for someone to clean my whole house....
So the $70 a month plan seems interesting. I spend maybe an hour on and off doing laundry a week. Add in time to start and stop whatever I’m doing so let’s say 1.5. So that’s 6 hours a month. That’s a touch less than $12 an hour. My time according to work is more valuable than that.
I can see it being worth it for people who make a decent income and spend that time doing something else. It’s pretty much the same as any service for things that need to be done regularly. As your time becomes more valuable, it makes sense to delegate those tasks off.
I can see it being worth it for people who make a decent income and spend that time doing something else. It’s pretty much the same as any service for things that need to be done regularly. As your time becomes more valuable, it makes sense to delegate those tasks off.
Interesting to think about whether half-way solutions might be better.
A robot that puts my kids' clothes in a bag for pickup by a laundry service might be a winner.
Or one that sorts out intimates and drycleaning from towels and shirts, so that the latter can be sent out. My wife's primary objection to laundry service is that it's too personal to send out. Thus, the dream of a robot that can do it all in-house.
A robot that puts my kids' clothes in a bag for pickup by a laundry service might be a winner.
Or one that sorts out intimates and drycleaning from towels and shirts, so that the latter can be sent out. My wife's primary objection to laundry service is that it's too personal to send out. Thus, the dream of a robot that can do it all in-house.
1) Get two dishwashers. Alternate them clean/dirty. Think of them as self-washing cabinets from sci-fi.
2) Get a laundry service or maid service.
Save thousands of dollars.
2) Get a laundry service or maid service.
Save thousands of dollars.
Am I the only one that washes dishes immediately after use? No need to even use the machine. Wash immediately after use, let them dry on rack, wipe and put away.
Dishes and laundry are a total non-issue.
Dishes and laundry are a total non-issue.
Have a family of 7 and get back to me on that one.
Edit: not trying to be snarky but a use case for a single person or small family breaks down quickly when you have young kids and have special diets(that require an entirely different set of dishes) then you can see where automation is useful.
On the other hand, according to the US census, as of 2016 the number of households with 7 or more family members is 1.27% while the number of households with 1 family member is 28.13%. If we take into account the households with 3 or fewer family members we are talking over 75% of the US.
I think it is completely reasonable not to consider your circumstance when giving general advice. The vast majority of people can choose a much simpler solution because they have much simpler problems. It's interesting to hear what people in your situation need to do, but I wouldn't expect many people to relate because they have no such experience.
I think it is completely reasonable not to consider your circumstance when giving general advice. The vast majority of people can choose a much simpler solution because they have much simpler problems. It's interesting to hear what people in your situation need to do, but I wouldn't expect many people to relate because they have no such experience.
I agree with you, but you are using the wrong numbers.
Sure, only 23% of households have 4+ members, but they contain 44% of all Americans. Likewise, the 1.3% of households with 7+ members contain 6.2% of Americans.
And there are more people in households of 6+ members than in single-member households.
Sure, only 23% of households have 4+ members, but they contain 44% of all Americans. Likewise, the 1.3% of households with 7+ members contain 6.2% of Americans.
And there are more people in households of 6+ members than in single-member households.
#people_in_household %_of_households %_of_people
1 28% 11%
2 34% 27%
3 15% 18%
4 13% 20%
5 6% 12%
6 2.2% 5.3%
7+ 1.3% 6.2%
#people_in_household %_of_households %_of_people
1-3 77% 56%
4-6 21% 38%
7+ 1.3% 6.2%
And how about the purchasing power of a family of 1?
Is the purchasing power of a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) any higher than someone living alone, specifically when talking about purchasing home appliances?
I mean occasionally my wife and I will both purchase bread on the way home resulting in us having a lot of bread, but I can't think of a time we both accidentally bought a refrigerator or oven on the same weekend.
I mean occasionally my wife and I will both purchase bread on the way home resulting in us having a lot of bread, but I can't think of a time we both accidentally bought a refrigerator or oven on the same weekend.
Well, a decent chunk of people living alone are probably renting, so that changes the whole appliance-purchasing dynamics already, but to directly answer your question - yes? The increasingly common dual income family has more income than a single person, and furthermore benefits from the ability to share certain costs efficiently - how would that not result in higher purchasing power?
Statistics for disposable income by family size is hard to get (I don't think the US census measures that). My gut feeling is that dual income, no kids families are going to be at the very top because not only are kids incredibly expensive, but not having kids means that you can concentrate on work. Having said that, family size will also skew around age so it's really hard to say. I'll just say that I've never met a family with kids that isn't concerned about money.
But even having more money, will people buy robot appliances? Again, my gut feeling is that singles are actually more likely to buy things like that because the downside of making an ineffective purchase is dramatically lower.
But even having more money, will people buy robot appliances? Again, my gut feeling is that singles are actually more likely to buy things like that because the downside of making an ineffective purchase is dramatically lower.
This.
I didn't mind doing laundry when I lived by myself.
Then I started living with my wife. She has laundry preferences (among other things) different from mine (whoa!).
Then we had a kid. And another. And another. Not a family of 7, but I think I know where you're coming from. It was a walk in the park, individually. A complete non-issue.
I didn't mind doing laundry when I lived by myself.
Then I started living with my wife. She has laundry preferences (among other things) different from mine (whoa!).
Then we had a kid. And another. And another. Not a family of 7, but I think I know where you're coming from. It was a walk in the park, individually. A complete non-issue.
A family with any kids such that you're going through the bedtime routine after dinner, then exhausted and forget/avoid the dishes.
I know that my parents started making me do dishes around age 8 or 9, and I guess I hadn't really considered if that was normal or not until now. Is it normal?
I don't know if it's normal, but I was washing dishes at a similar age and later cooking for the family as a teenager.
My children are 3 and 5 which is why they're not much help with washing/drying and why the bedtime routine is more involved - bath, drying, brushing teeth, packing up, reading, answering questions about why they have to go to bed, why it's still light outside, how they are actually tired and so on.
My children are 3 and 5 which is why they're not much help with washing/drying and why the bedtime routine is more involved - bath, drying, brushing teeth, packing up, reading, answering questions about why they have to go to bed, why it's still light outside, how they are actually tired and so on.
It's normal. My parents didn't have a dishwasher until I moved out, so I was made to do it or help. Before remotes I also had to get up and turn the channel for my dad. All these time saving devices really help kids the most ;)
Tru dat. I just left my oldest's room, everyone is asleep... walked right past the dishes to get to the computer....
With a family of 7 you're likely to have at least 1 or 2 kids old enough to be your robot for pocket money.
It's hard enough getting them to fill/empty the dishwhasher, let alone wash things until they're clean without breaking them.
Plus even our ten-year-old dishwasher is more energy efficient than hand-washing. It's more than paid for itself by now.
Plus even our ten-year-old dishwasher is more energy efficient than hand-washing. It's more than paid for itself by now.
They’ll pocket money alright
Note that this is almost certainly less efficient in terms of time, water use and energy use, than using a modern dishwasher.
The other benefit we find of using a dishwasher in a family is that the dishwasher produces a consistent and good result as compared to a 8-12 year old trying to hand-wash, and kids can be trained to competently unload things if you store plates and glasses "low". So the aggregate effort for parents is almost zero.
I'm thinking that the bulk of people giving advice like yours live in smaller-scale households and don't entertain, or don't entertain in a way that generates any dishes. I think a dishwasher would probably be a bit weird if I lived alone, as it would take ages to fill with dirty dishes and I would probably wind up having to retrieve stuff from it all the time.
The other benefit we find of using a dishwasher in a family is that the dishwasher produces a consistent and good result as compared to a 8-12 year old trying to hand-wash, and kids can be trained to competently unload things if you store plates and glasses "low". So the aggregate effort for parents is almost zero.
I'm thinking that the bulk of people giving advice like yours live in smaller-scale households and don't entertain, or don't entertain in a way that generates any dishes. I think a dishwasher would probably be a bit weird if I lived alone, as it would take ages to fill with dirty dishes and I would probably wind up having to retrieve stuff from it all the time.
If your kids are rubbish at washing up, which miraculously results in their being exempted from this thankless task, you may be witnessing what Scott Adams identifies as "strategic incompetence" :-) I suspect my wife of the same tactic, as the thought of her greasy half-washed efforts on the draining board always gets me to volunteer to do the dishes every night.
Being rubbish at a task, at our house, results in you getting more. My youngest's crappy/lazy vacuuming job on his own room, for instance, earned him some "practice". :-)
We just don't have that much hand-washing to do. They are still rubbish at the task even when made to do it.
We just don't have that much hand-washing to do. They are still rubbish at the task even when made to do it.
Household of one checking in. I eat at home maybe 6 or 8 times a week.If I eat breakfast at home, I'll usually just drop the bowl or plate int he sink and fill it with water, then wash it while doing my dinner plate if I eat at home that night, or while waiting on the coffee machine the next morning. Mostly I wash dinner cooking utensils as I go, and my cutlery and crockery after I'm done (Friday or Saturday nights if I've eaten at home, they'll sometimes sit in the sink overnight...)
When I entertain, I deal with things as required. (Admittedly not often...)
When I entertain, I deal with things as required. (Admittedly not often...)
I used to do this. Then I moved into a place with a brand new (efficient) dishwasher and did some rough experiments comparing the water usage. Now I just run the dishwasher every few days. It also has the added bonus of not needing to stack up stuff to dry.
Slightly unrelated, but depending on where/what you moved into, upgrading toilets to efficient ones* also makes a big different, for relatively little coin.
*I mean the efficient ones (a gallon of golf balls with 1 gallon of water marketing gimmicks, etc), not the "low flow" crappy ones.
*I mean the efficient ones (a gallon of golf balls with 1 gallon of water marketing gimmicks, etc), not the "low flow" crappy ones.
That statistic of efficiency probably deals with averages and we should certainly not measure anything against American averages because American waste levels are absurd.
Generally the statistic is based on studies comparing a full dishwasher to washing the same stuff in a sink. The "just in time" handwashing described above is probably more or less the worst case from an efficiency point of view, though.
I think that's a case of chronic pain seeming less bad than acute pain. Cleaning dishes one by one is probably the least time efficient method. It's just never enough at one time for you to notice.
With a relatively new dishwasher you can put your dishes in completely dirty with no rinsing. They're a solid time savings for sure.
With a relatively new dishwasher you can put your dishes in completely dirty with no rinsing. They're a solid time savings for sure.
> Dishes and laundry are a total non-issue.
I agree that washing dishes immediately after use reduces the effort to almost nothing. I try to do so as much as possible. Laundry is not as precise.
I can’t immediately run today’s clothes through my washer and dryer alone without wasting resources. I also need to remove my laundry from the dryer soon after it finishes if I want to avoid wrinkled clothes. For these reasons, I only do laundry in large loads and I have to schedule around the task. This is even more of an issue for people who do not have laundry machines in their homes.
I agree that washing dishes immediately after use reduces the effort to almost nothing. I try to do so as much as possible. Laundry is not as precise.
I can’t immediately run today’s clothes through my washer and dryer alone without wasting resources. I also need to remove my laundry from the dryer soon after it finishes if I want to avoid wrinkled clothes. For these reasons, I only do laundry in large loads and I have to schedule around the task. This is even more of an issue for people who do not have laundry machines in their homes.
I used to do that. It works great while you're single, could work with a like minded partner, but is very challenging for the first couple years of having kids :)
There’s frequent times where I’m eating, about to wash my dishes, and something comes up at work (PagerDuty for example). This happens more times than I care to admit, and as a result I end up just chucking them into the dishwasher. Or if I have to leave in the morning and I’m running late, or if I had a large gathering of people.
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I do too, with the help of scrubber with detergent (https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-Scrubber-Dispenser-Dishwash-...) it's a 10 second job. Being single means my plate and bowl can simply sit in the rack until next use. It's not a significant time sink, I spend way more than that cooking meals in the first place.
Similarly, washing clothes is not a significant time sink, 99% of the process is done by a machine unattended, I only need to collect the clothes, transfer them from the washer to the drier and put them away afterwards. Or put them on a hanger to dry if they require ironing.
Similarly, washing clothes is not a significant time sink, 99% of the process is done by a machine unattended, I only need to collect the clothes, transfer them from the washer to the drier and put them away afterwards. Or put them on a hanger to dry if they require ironing.
The scrubber wand changed my life. Dishes went from being a complete pain to being tolerable and quick. It seems like such a simple thing, but it really does change the game.
Wash-dry-fold services are some of the best dollars I spend. For about $1/pound, I drop my stuff off before work, pick it up at the end of the day, and it's all taken care of.
> Being single
That's about 25% of the US population. Those of us raising families do quite a lot of labour every day, at least while the kids are small.
A quick mental estimate says daily dishes for family of 4, 2 of whom are preschoolers, is about 12X my singleton workload. Also laundry every day at least one load, maybe two.
That's about 25% of the US population. Those of us raising families do quite a lot of labour every day, at least while the kids are small.
A quick mental estimate says daily dishes for family of 4, 2 of whom are preschoolers, is about 12X my singleton workload. Also laundry every day at least one load, maybe two.
Indeed, the dishwasher is the first appliance that I'd be willing to give up, especially if the space were occupied by a well designed drying rack with drain. I guess I could use the dishwasher for that purpose, and not run it.
We're a family of 4. My trick is that I'm super damn quick.
We're a family of 4. My trick is that I'm super damn quick.
Edit: Interesting to see this get voted up and down. I suppose because it appears to have a holier-than-thou tone. I don't really feel that way because I struggled to learn this stuff the hard way. I'm just hopeful someone will feel encouraged to try it.
Not the only one. Admittedly I don't have kids, but I'm familiar with family life and I don't think this is really that much of a problem.
I think a lot of people suffer from the problem of not being educated about how to do basic things around the house. They make huge problems for themselves. For dishes, the main key is just not to ever have dirty dishes. Definitely, do not store dirty dishes in the sink. Not only does it stop you from cooking, but it means you are almost certain to break stuff when you do eventually wash it (because there is no room).
The idea of storing dirty dishes in a dishwasher is also just bad. You either need 10 of everything, or you are stuck digging around and hand washing some horribly encrusted pot that you need. Instead, as you cook, clean. If you are in a typical North American kitchen, box off 90% of it and constrain yourself to an area that includes the sink, an area the size of your cutting board and your stove/oven. Hopefully the sink, board and stove are right next to each other. Keep a small dish of hot water and detergent right next to the sink with a sponge or cloth in it. Replenish occasionally (I usually use the kettle since it is faster and more efficient than trying to get small amounts of hot water out of the tap -- I lived 5 years in a house without hot running water and never missed it!).
Whenever you use anything, clean it right away. Also put it away. Specifically: pots, knives and cutting boards should never be dirty. Get a knife board (or similar). Clean your knife and put it away every time you use it. The 2 seconds you save by putting your knife on the board (or other hazardous place) is not worth it. Pots should be cooking something, storing something, or spotless. Similarly, your board should be in use or clean.
Try to make due (or 95% of what you do) with a frying pan, 1 small pot and one large pot. Then reuse these as you are cooking. Also, buy 1 good knife and do everything with it. Think of these things as being in your cache. Make it a cache miss to swap out to something else. Obviously you will occasionally need specialised tools, but try to keep these really infrequent. Finally, wash the kitchen before you serve the meal. It sounds crazy, but you should be able to do it in less than 5 minutes, so the food can wait. Not only will your kitchen always be clean, but you will dramatically increase the speed at which you can cook. It is really astounding how much better it is.
At that point, the only thing you ever need to wash are the dishes you are eating off of. If you are a couple, then it takes virtually no time. If you are a family, then this is good "family time" (teaching children that working is part of life is not the most terrible thing you can do).
For laundry, my wife does the laundry every day that's sunny. We store dirty laundry in the machine. (Hint: Always leave the machine door open if you can. A dry machine is a not-moldy-machine). As soon as we get up my wife turns on the machine. After breakfast she hangs the laundry outside. Total time: 5 minutes. When she gets home at the end of the day she folds the laundry. I work from home so if it starts to rain, or is too windy, I take the laundry in and fold it. Total time: 5 minutes.
When we lived in London (i.e. a-not-sunny-place), we hung everything indoors -- just make sure that the room is well ventilated, or you can cause problems with moisture. It sometimes took 2 days for some things to dry thoroughly, but you can quickly put a few things in the dryer for a couple of minutes if you don't want to wait -- normally takes less than 5 minutes to finish it off.
I used to wash all the laundry by hand (really)! Before breakfast, soak. Before taking a shower, drain and re-soak with detergent. After having a shower (not having clothes on means you don't have to worry about getting wet), wash and wring out the detergent. Rinse and soak in rinsing water. After getting dressed, brushing teeth, etc, wring out the water, then lay the clothes out onto towels. Roll up the towels with the clothes inside. Twist the towels to transfer the water into the towels. Total time: about 10 minutes. Downside: you need a couple of extra towels that you need to hang.
Now, the above is hard work if you have a lot of clothes, but it's practically trivial if you are doing it every day (I still do this when travelling). To be honest, a modern washing machine is stupidly efficient and does quite a good job, so might as well use it, but it's useful to realise how little hassle it is to do it by hand -- as long as you are doing it every day!
Not the only one. Admittedly I don't have kids, but I'm familiar with family life and I don't think this is really that much of a problem.
I think a lot of people suffer from the problem of not being educated about how to do basic things around the house. They make huge problems for themselves. For dishes, the main key is just not to ever have dirty dishes. Definitely, do not store dirty dishes in the sink. Not only does it stop you from cooking, but it means you are almost certain to break stuff when you do eventually wash it (because there is no room).
The idea of storing dirty dishes in a dishwasher is also just bad. You either need 10 of everything, or you are stuck digging around and hand washing some horribly encrusted pot that you need. Instead, as you cook, clean. If you are in a typical North American kitchen, box off 90% of it and constrain yourself to an area that includes the sink, an area the size of your cutting board and your stove/oven. Hopefully the sink, board and stove are right next to each other. Keep a small dish of hot water and detergent right next to the sink with a sponge or cloth in it. Replenish occasionally (I usually use the kettle since it is faster and more efficient than trying to get small amounts of hot water out of the tap -- I lived 5 years in a house without hot running water and never missed it!).
Whenever you use anything, clean it right away. Also put it away. Specifically: pots, knives and cutting boards should never be dirty. Get a knife board (or similar). Clean your knife and put it away every time you use it. The 2 seconds you save by putting your knife on the board (or other hazardous place) is not worth it. Pots should be cooking something, storing something, or spotless. Similarly, your board should be in use or clean.
Try to make due (or 95% of what you do) with a frying pan, 1 small pot and one large pot. Then reuse these as you are cooking. Also, buy 1 good knife and do everything with it. Think of these things as being in your cache. Make it a cache miss to swap out to something else. Obviously you will occasionally need specialised tools, but try to keep these really infrequent. Finally, wash the kitchen before you serve the meal. It sounds crazy, but you should be able to do it in less than 5 minutes, so the food can wait. Not only will your kitchen always be clean, but you will dramatically increase the speed at which you can cook. It is really astounding how much better it is.
At that point, the only thing you ever need to wash are the dishes you are eating off of. If you are a couple, then it takes virtually no time. If you are a family, then this is good "family time" (teaching children that working is part of life is not the most terrible thing you can do).
For laundry, my wife does the laundry every day that's sunny. We store dirty laundry in the machine. (Hint: Always leave the machine door open if you can. A dry machine is a not-moldy-machine). As soon as we get up my wife turns on the machine. After breakfast she hangs the laundry outside. Total time: 5 minutes. When she gets home at the end of the day she folds the laundry. I work from home so if it starts to rain, or is too windy, I take the laundry in and fold it. Total time: 5 minutes.
When we lived in London (i.e. a-not-sunny-place), we hung everything indoors -- just make sure that the room is well ventilated, or you can cause problems with moisture. It sometimes took 2 days for some things to dry thoroughly, but you can quickly put a few things in the dryer for a couple of minutes if you don't want to wait -- normally takes less than 5 minutes to finish it off.
I used to wash all the laundry by hand (really)! Before breakfast, soak. Before taking a shower, drain and re-soak with detergent. After having a shower (not having clothes on means you don't have to worry about getting wet), wash and wring out the detergent. Rinse and soak in rinsing water. After getting dressed, brushing teeth, etc, wring out the water, then lay the clothes out onto towels. Roll up the towels with the clothes inside. Twist the towels to transfer the water into the towels. Total time: about 10 minutes. Downside: you need a couple of extra towels that you need to hang.
Now, the above is hard work if you have a lot of clothes, but it's practically trivial if you are doing it every day (I still do this when travelling). To be honest, a modern washing machine is stupidly efficient and does quite a good job, so might as well use it, but it's useful to realise how little hassle it is to do it by hand -- as long as you are doing it every day!
I agree, it's a good idea to clean as you go when cooking.
In my opinion it's not necessary to be too strict about it, aim to have your kitchen 80% clean before eating, then clean up right after dinner.
The reason it helps is that if you build up a big mess in the kitchen, it makes the task of cooking seem overwhelming.
While this 'clean as you go' habit seems to be about cleaning,it's really about nutrition.
If your kitchen is well stocked and clean, you will find it easier to cook your own meals, which will do wonders for your overall health.
In my opinion it's not necessary to be too strict about it, aim to have your kitchen 80% clean before eating, then clean up right after dinner.
The reason it helps is that if you build up a big mess in the kitchen, it makes the task of cooking seem overwhelming.
While this 'clean as you go' habit seems to be about cleaning,it's really about nutrition.
If your kitchen is well stocked and clean, you will find it easier to cook your own meals, which will do wonders for your overall health.
> Specifically: pots, knives and cutting boards should never be dirty. Get a knife board (or similar). Clean your knife and put it away every time you use it. The 2 seconds you save by putting your knife on the board (or other hazardous place) is not worth it. Pots should be cooking something, storing something, or spotless. Similarly, your board should be in use or clean.
This is what I do, but everything else goes in the dishwasher. :)
This is what I do, but everything else goes in the dishwasher. :)
> Not the only one. Admittedly I don't have kids, but I'm familiar with family life and I don't think this is really that much of a problem.
Yeah, it is much of a problem. Once you get one kid, your dishwasher will be used more than merely 1/3 more, as will your laundry machine.
Every time I clean a pan or dish or fork or knife I use water, soap, and I gotta let it dry (which uses a rack which takes up space) after which I can soak up the remaining water and put it away. If I'm already doing that, it goes in one go, called dish washing or I put it in this spot where I put in a tablet and let it work for a few hours, called a dishwasher. Which is, incidentally, very space efficient and consumes very little time. I'm a proponent of reusing dishes, glasses, etc but with cats I don't find it very hygienic.
You want to wash your dishes for 5 minutes after you finished cooking your meal. Well, that's your choice. I want to cook my food, serve it with the family, and watch them enjoy the food and (potentially) receive feedback or even redo parts or grab additional spoon or sauce or whatever and perhaps most importantly for myself: enjoy the food I made, served hot, with my family. To hell I would stand 5 more minutes in the kitchen cleaning my mess up. That's for after dinner! And cleaning it up means putting it in the dishwasher.
> The idea of storing dirty dishes in a dishwasher is also just bad. You either need 10 of everything, or you are stuck digging around and hand washing some horribly encrusted pot that you need.
Then you get more pots, or you put your dishwasher on more often, or you wash the pot(s) by hand. We, or well generally my partner rather, do the latter but we also have enough pots and pans to easily last for a couple of days. They're washed in one go, not in multiple. I think time-wise, that's more efficient, regardless of you saying is better (not sure why actually).
Putting my clothes in my garden is a sure way to attract cats, thieves, and bad weather. I don't have a dryer (am considering getting one given a baby is due). Putting clothes on doors and a rack seems to work well, though does require ventilation indeed. I can also recommend to use vinegar as fabric softener.
Your advice is interesting and inspiring, even more so for road warriors and the like but its just less practical than using machines for the tough work. Why? It saves us time and effort. Time and effort is what you sorely lack when you get kids. You don't have kids, I suspect you underestimate the impact of having even one (young) child. If you have a baby you can say bye bye to your sleep rhythm. Do you think I'd love to do dishes regularly between my sleeps? No way, I'd rather have the dishwasher on, let it dry (you gotta keep it open to let it dry via environment), and be done with it.
Yeah, it is much of a problem. Once you get one kid, your dishwasher will be used more than merely 1/3 more, as will your laundry machine.
Every time I clean a pan or dish or fork or knife I use water, soap, and I gotta let it dry (which uses a rack which takes up space) after which I can soak up the remaining water and put it away. If I'm already doing that, it goes in one go, called dish washing or I put it in this spot where I put in a tablet and let it work for a few hours, called a dishwasher. Which is, incidentally, very space efficient and consumes very little time. I'm a proponent of reusing dishes, glasses, etc but with cats I don't find it very hygienic.
You want to wash your dishes for 5 minutes after you finished cooking your meal. Well, that's your choice. I want to cook my food, serve it with the family, and watch them enjoy the food and (potentially) receive feedback or even redo parts or grab additional spoon or sauce or whatever and perhaps most importantly for myself: enjoy the food I made, served hot, with my family. To hell I would stand 5 more minutes in the kitchen cleaning my mess up. That's for after dinner! And cleaning it up means putting it in the dishwasher.
> The idea of storing dirty dishes in a dishwasher is also just bad. You either need 10 of everything, or you are stuck digging around and hand washing some horribly encrusted pot that you need.
Then you get more pots, or you put your dishwasher on more often, or you wash the pot(s) by hand. We, or well generally my partner rather, do the latter but we also have enough pots and pans to easily last for a couple of days. They're washed in one go, not in multiple. I think time-wise, that's more efficient, regardless of you saying is better (not sure why actually).
Putting my clothes in my garden is a sure way to attract cats, thieves, and bad weather. I don't have a dryer (am considering getting one given a baby is due). Putting clothes on doors and a rack seems to work well, though does require ventilation indeed. I can also recommend to use vinegar as fabric softener.
Your advice is interesting and inspiring, even more so for road warriors and the like but its just less practical than using machines for the tough work. Why? It saves us time and effort. Time and effort is what you sorely lack when you get kids. You don't have kids, I suspect you underestimate the impact of having even one (young) child. If you have a baby you can say bye bye to your sleep rhythm. Do you think I'd love to do dishes regularly between my sleeps? No way, I'd rather have the dishwasher on, let it dry (you gotta keep it open to let it dry via environment), and be done with it.
This "wash dishes during cooking and after eating" recipe sounds like just washing in two batches, interrupted by eating. The post-meal dishes will include many of the cooking pots/bowls/cutting boards, because you served the food from them. And many people like to kick back after dinner or go to work after breakfast, not jump right into dishwashing.
The extra "during cooking" dishwashing steps of intermediate pots, knives, cutting boards, grating boards, and other intermediate cooking tools & pots, blender parts etc may satisfy a sense of order in the kitchen but it's but that's not enough to sway most people over.
And now the dishwasher feels like a good idea again. And you can accumulate dishes in it all day, so it also handles the between meals glasses, coffee mugs, french presses, sandwich making dishes etc.
The extra "during cooking" dishwashing steps of intermediate pots, knives, cutting boards, grating boards, and other intermediate cooking tools & pots, blender parts etc may satisfy a sense of order in the kitchen but it's but that's not enough to sway most people over.
And now the dishwasher feels like a good idea again. And you can accumulate dishes in it all day, so it also handles the between meals glasses, coffee mugs, french presses, sandwich making dishes etc.
I live alone, but I still don't like doing dishes manually, especially after having gone through the effort of cooking, I'd rather chill out a bit after I finished eating.
I just throw them all in the machine and run the machine once a week, way less effort, way less time wasted.
I just throw them all in the machine and run the machine once a week, way less effort, way less time wasted.
Me and my partner generate enough dirty dishes between us that a dishwasher is a wonderful thing to have.
Maybe it's my cooking techniques that are the problem. I do somehow manage to use 6 pans to make a dinner for 2.
Maybe it's my cooking techniques that are the problem. I do somehow manage to use 6 pans to make a dinner for 2.
I, too, wash dishes right after use. No accumulating piles and it takes about 10 seconds to do that. Nowadays I actually have a dishwasher in my new apartment but I have used it zero times!
I doubt the dual dishwasher strategy works, as it’s unlikely that the clean dishwasher will get completely emptied and you’ll end up with both washers with dishes you want but sometimes mixed with dirty dishes.
guess you could just clean the clean dishes again
Should I be ashamed of how quickly I considered this solution? It would be quite wasteful, but oh so lazy.
get a third dishwasher :-)
I actually have two dish washers and this is indeed a problem. We just clear out what's left into the cupboard. If your usage pattern is non-standard, for example because people come over, it also breaks down. But on the whole I'm happy with the time savings.
I actually have two dish washers and this is indeed a problem. We just clear out what's left into the cupboard. If your usage pattern is non-standard, for example because people come over, it also breaks down. But on the whole I'm happy with the time savings.
That first recommendation is pure genius!
I saw it done with a stacked pair of dishwasher drawers (e.g.: https://www.remodelista.com/posts/appliances-dishwasher-draw... ) in a small apartment in Switzerland recently, with "clean" and "dirty" magnets that got swapped around -- there was no other dish storage. Pretty great.
My other favorite is the Italian dish drainer (a few examples here: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/759138080911631519 ) -- basically the cabinet above the sink is a dish drainer with an open bottom.
My other favorite is the Italian dish drainer (a few examples here: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/759138080911631519 ) -- basically the cabinet above the sink is a dish drainer with an open bottom.
The drying cabinet is actually a Finnish invention [1] (although apparently preceded by a US patent that never took off). It was popular in Scandinavia for a while, and you still come across homes from the 50-60s that have them, but they're no longer popular now that most people have automatic dishwashers. My family has a mountain cabin in Norway, built in the 1950s with no dishwasher, that have these, and they're very handy.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dish_drying_cabinet
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dish_drying_cabinet
I never have enough dirty dishes to do a full dishwasher run, and I find I need new dishes before I've run a load, so now I just handwash and use the dishwasher as a drying rack.
Very nearly every home in Finland has one these still.
In Italian it is called "scolapiatti", it may well have been patented in the US and be a Finnish invention (in the form suspended over the kitchen sink), but in Italy it has been a traditional tool since dishes were invented, it used to be an outside piece of furniture, more like a basket:
https://maisonderose.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/cera-una-volta...
http://www.lasoffittaretro.it/classico/48-scolapiatti-in-fer...
until houses had water (and thus sinks), I believe that as soon as sinks were installed in kitchens, the one or the other form of "scolapiatti" became in use, this is an early, primitive, type:
http://www.comune.sangiorgiodellarichinvelda.pn.it/fileadmin...
And this is another example:
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/192394042552_/AAX-P...
https://maisonderose.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/cera-una-volta...
http://www.lasoffittaretro.it/classico/48-scolapiatti-in-fer...
until houses had water (and thus sinks), I believe that as soon as sinks were installed in kitchens, the one or the other form of "scolapiatti" became in use, this is an early, primitive, type:
http://www.comune.sangiorgiodellarichinvelda.pn.it/fileadmin...
And this is another example:
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/192394042552_/AAX-P...
There exist single dishwashers that provide this capability, and they may suffice depending on your dishwashing needs and average load.
1: https://www.fisherpaykel.com/us/kitchen/dish-washers/dishdra...
1: https://www.fisherpaykel.com/us/kitchen/dish-washers/dishdra...
I've read that the fisher paykel dishwashers have a lot of reliability problems compared to normal dishwashers unfortunately.
I recently bought an apartment after having rented a place with these drawer dishwashers.
I considered it a non-negotiable to never live with them again if given the choice. The small ones just aren't practical if you cook. Put on some rice, boil some veggies, fry up some meat, and suddenly you're already out of room. You've not done cutlery, breakfast, lunch or desert. And god help you if you cook anything more complicated than that...
I considered it a non-negotiable to never live with them again if given the choice. The small ones just aren't practical if you cook. Put on some rice, boil some veggies, fry up some meat, and suddenly you're already out of room. You've not done cutlery, breakfast, lunch or desert. And god help you if you cook anything more complicated than that...
I’ve thought about getting like 5 and replacing all cabinets. A lower end dishwasher is about the same as a custom cabinet $150-$300).
Don't skimp om dishwasher quality. You'd think 'hiw different can they be', but a cheap dishwasher is only slightly better than none at all (having to rinse, redoing things that weren't cleaned well, frequent breakage/blockage) whereas a good one is a life changer.
Assuming an average repair rate of one fault every five years, you'll be needing to service or replace one of those dishwashing cabinets every single year.
Not quite. You would not quintuple your dishwashing usage, so you wouldn’t expect to quintuple your service requirements.
But double, that I would believe.
But double, that I would believe.
Think of all the time savings of putting dishes away that’s what keeps me excited.
At that point you could start washing your neighbors’ dishes as a service.
Connect those dishwashers to a cloud based backend, add in a little NLP onto the ordering interface, then slap an app and a nice slide deck on top and I think this KaaS offering could be ready for Series A funding before the summer :D
Then introduce a new blockchain payment coin (might I suggest DishCoin?) and you're off to the races!
https://www.remodelista.com/posts/appliances-dishwasher-draw...
I've heard that's how these are used, never tried it myself.
I've heard that's how these are used, never tried it myself.
We had some. Can't recommend them enough if you're a small family. They're also more flexible -- in a normal dishwasher you'd only put pots in the bottom rack, meaning if you've got a load of plates on you'd have to wait. Not so when either draw can be configured for anything and put on separately.
Then we moved house, and the new one had an old regular dishwasher that often doesn't quite clean bowls properly -- can't quite bring myself to chuck out a working dishwasher to get dishdrawers, but if the dishwasher breaks any time soon...
Then we moved house, and the new one had an old regular dishwasher that often doesn't quite clean bowls properly -- can't quite bring myself to chuck out a working dishwasher to get dishdrawers, but if the dishwasher breaks any time soon...
I had the Fisher Paykel double dishdrawer and found that it works great. We loaded dirty in one drawer and took clean from the other. We always had to put a few clean items away when swapping drawers, but that's a quicker than unloading everything.
Where are people getting kitchens that will fit multiple dishwashers? Even in my oversized Midwestern house, I'd be giving up a significant amount of storage space to rip out the cabinets to put in a second dishwasher.
I’m not the OP, but there are a few options. First, there is the space all your dishes take up. If you have another dishwasher, then they don’t fill up your cabinets, so net net, it’s the same amount of space.
Secondly, there are drawer-typ dishwashers made specifically for this. They are way overpriced, but are really useful and pretty darn small. One or two of those and you really don’t need to put dishes away anymore.
Secondly, there are drawer-typ dishwashers made specifically for this. They are way overpriced, but are really useful and pretty darn small. One or two of those and you really don’t need to put dishes away anymore.
To your first point not really. If guess you could stack 2-3x as many dishes in a cabinet that takes up the same space as a dishwasher because you could arrange them to take up much less space. It doesn't take many plates and bowls to fill a dishwasher but that same amount wouldn't take up half the cabinet.
But you could probably also get by with less.
But you could probably also get by with less.
In silicon valley, at least, a maid service that comes once a week is going to be north of USD$100/wk, and most of them say they don't do laundry for some reason, (though they can be talked into it) so a machine that could do what a weekly cleaning person could do could be pretty expensive and still be worth it.
> 2) Get a laundry service or maid service.
Changed my life. I really hated having to do laundry.
Changed my life. I really hated having to do laundry.
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The (1) makes me feel sci-fi and (2) brings me back to earth.
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If the sky's the limit, I'd like kiva for my home.
Maybe a dumb waiter would open in the wall with a little standard sized basket. I'd name what I'm storing, like tennis racket or snow shoes, and it would whisk it away to a storage space under the house or in the walls somewhere. I ask for it by name, the house brings it back to the portal.
An uncluttered house where I can have anything I use once a year within seconds. Hoarding by way of Marie Kondo. Possibly a gross dystopian consumer fantasy, but still.
If the house could just post anything you haven't used in two years on Craigslist, then we'd really be in the future.
Maybe a dumb waiter would open in the wall with a little standard sized basket. I'd name what I'm storing, like tennis racket or snow shoes, and it would whisk it away to a storage space under the house or in the walls somewhere. I ask for it by name, the house brings it back to the portal.
An uncluttered house where I can have anything I use once a year within seconds. Hoarding by way of Marie Kondo. Possibly a gross dystopian consumer fantasy, but still.
If the house could just post anything you haven't used in two years on Craigslist, then we'd really be in the future.
From an engineering standpoint, what you describe is likely actually possible to implement right now. It would be expensive as heck, but it should be doable.
Meanwhile, no amount of money can currently buy you a robot that will completely do your laundry, because the problem has not yet been solved. The development of this stuff is not exactly intuitive.
Meanwhile, no amount of money can currently buy you a robot that will completely do your laundry, because the problem has not yet been solved. The development of this stuff is not exactly intuitive.
It's been implemented to some degree by Cliff Stoll for his klein bottle business. Or rather, he started a warehouse in his crawlspace. Same difference...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU
Well, if the dumbwaiter idea is feasible, you'd just put the dirty laundry in the dumbwaiter, tell the dumbwaiter that it's dirty laundry (maybe provide further classification like "this is a white towel" or "this is a pair of blue jeans"), and wait for notifications from the dumbwaiter system to know when you can ask the dumbwaiter for your laundry back. Wondering if you could even build some kind of camera and some kind of clear washer and dryer that could track individual pieces of laundry such that the laundry of multiple tenants could be washed together to reduce wait times.
Considering the trend for new construction is to have luxury housing, while problematic in general for much-needed affordable housing, maybe it represents an opportunity to develop a system like this, whereby a developer installs the dumbwaiter in the walls, sets up a dumbwaiter floor, and is the primary investor in a startup that builds out the dumbwaiter tech. As the developer builds out more buildings, and the dumbwaiter can do more things, buyers will pay more for units with the dumbwaiter, and the developer can possibly even license out the dumbwaiter tech to other developers.
Considering the trend for new construction is to have luxury housing, while problematic in general for much-needed affordable housing, maybe it represents an opportunity to develop a system like this, whereby a developer installs the dumbwaiter in the walls, sets up a dumbwaiter floor, and is the primary investor in a startup that builds out the dumbwaiter tech. As the developer builds out more buildings, and the dumbwaiter can do more things, buyers will pay more for units with the dumbwaiter, and the developer can possibly even license out the dumbwaiter tech to other developers.
My expectation would be that getting the laundry into and/or out of the average commodity washer & dryer might be harder than you think. Robotic dexterity is very limited, and clothing can move and morph in all kinds of unexpected ways.
I'm sure a custom industrial-scale solution could be designed, but that still leaves the problem of folding. I suppose a compromise might be partial folding, like having the machine gently 'stack' the clothes in a return basket to minimize wrinkles.
I'm sure a custom industrial-scale solution could be designed, but that still leaves the problem of folding. I suppose a compromise might be partial folding, like having the machine gently 'stack' the clothes in a return basket to minimize wrinkles.
Well if you have a dumbwaiter, then you can just use some external service to do the washing.
Disregarding security and privacy, big apartment complexes with these dumbwaiter could actually work, with shared storage space and and laundry systems.
Disregarding security and privacy, big apartment complexes with these dumbwaiter could actually work, with shared storage space and and laundry systems.
Not an appliance, but there are a bunch of "valet storage" services like this. In NYC there's MakeSpace, which takes photos of your stuff that you can use to request delivery, should you need a particular item. They photograph and deliver the whole box, though, as far as I remember, not individual items.
Any suggestions for ones that cover the Peninsula? I'd love something smaller than PODs where I could have a lockable box delivered, load it or unload it, and have it taken back, all at the push of the button.
When autonomous cars fully arrive, I'll bet something like this takes off, particularly in areas with small homes like the Bay Area.
You could charge a subscription fee that allowed up to X monthly trips.
When autonomous cars fully arrive, I'll bet something like this takes off, particularly in areas with small homes like the Bay Area.
You could charge a subscription fee that allowed up to X monthly trips.
No idea, but googling "valet storage" should get you some hits.
Some time ago, in a different country, I used a storage service where they unloaded the box -- a big unit about 2m tall and deep, with enough space for a couch, several chairs, etc. -- on the street and then picked it up again when you wanted, all scheduled via their web app. Very nice system.
Some time ago, in a different country, I used a storage service where they unloaded the box -- a big unit about 2m tall and deep, with enough space for a couch, several chairs, etc. -- on the street and then picked it up again when you wanted, all scheduled via their web app. Very nice system.
Yeah, I've wanted to make something similar It would be cool if the front-end might looked like a Star Trek TNG replicator.
I wrote about a related idea here, expanding on the idea to include an actual internet of things in boxes: http://pdfernhout.net/post-scarcity-princeton.html#Princeton...
I'd also like something for storing and retrieving lots of different types of LEGO.
Related prior work: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kay/pln/
I wrote about a related idea here, expanding on the idea to include an actual internet of things in boxes: http://pdfernhout.net/post-scarcity-princeton.html#Princeton...
I'd also like something for storing and retrieving lots of different types of LEGO.
Related prior work: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kay/pln/
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Actually, I'm not a product designer or engineer, but I feel like I have an idea for #1, and I'm interested in doing it, even for myself. Maybe it's something like "dishwasher v2.0", I 'm not sure.
I basically want a standard set of plates, bowls, cups and silverware, which is designed to work with an automated washing box that has slots (or maybe holders) for each to be deposited inside. The idea is, you use the item, and then feed it into the machine, and right there it cleans and done.
Within the machine, it can queue up a small amount of each item internally (in case you have more than one item), and then washes, rinses, and quickly spin or air dries each item, one at a time (or maybe for silverware, in small batches).
Lastly, it spits out the clean items either completely (or mostly) dry at the end of the process.
This way, you can own less dishes overall (because you wash/dry them instantly), and you get all the hard work mostly done. Maintenance would be mostly keeping it loaded with soap/cleaner, and making sure food waste doesn't clog it.
If you could pull that off and make it reasonably water and energy efficient... I think that would make a lot of people happy, self included! Not sure if washing things piecemeal can be made water and energy efficient though.
Some days I wish I regret not having more hardware/mechanical/electrical engineering experience!
I basically want a standard set of plates, bowls, cups and silverware, which is designed to work with an automated washing box that has slots (or maybe holders) for each to be deposited inside. The idea is, you use the item, and then feed it into the machine, and right there it cleans and done.
Within the machine, it can queue up a small amount of each item internally (in case you have more than one item), and then washes, rinses, and quickly spin or air dries each item, one at a time (or maybe for silverware, in small batches).
Lastly, it spits out the clean items either completely (or mostly) dry at the end of the process.
This way, you can own less dishes overall (because you wash/dry them instantly), and you get all the hard work mostly done. Maintenance would be mostly keeping it loaded with soap/cleaner, and making sure food waste doesn't clog it.
If you could pull that off and make it reasonably water and energy efficient... I think that would make a lot of people happy, self included! Not sure if washing things piecemeal can be made water and energy efficient though.
Some days I wish I regret not having more hardware/mechanical/electrical engineering experience!
One life hack I’ve seen and always wondered about that gets you close is having two dish washers and using them as your cupboard. You use stuff from the clean one and put away into the dirty one. Once the dirty one is full, run it and switch directions.
Or have a removable rack that you can pull out and slide into a cupboard. No need to have two machines connected to water, drain, and electricity. It works this way, more or less, in industrial settings. You have trays that go into dishwasher, and then go into storage racks.
I recently rented a house for NYE with a very nice kitchen. It had FOUR drawer style dishwashers! I imagine this is what the owners do all the time.
Yeah, the machines now are performing unnecessary intermediate steps, or rather I should say could perhaps perform extra steps that overall would make the design of the machines easier.
What we want long term is a machine that does all the work, e.g. that can spit out requested items and which when returned to the machine will clean and store them (the same idea works for any of clothing, cutlery, tools, shoes etc).
Why should I have to take the folded clothes or washed dishes and go pack them away? Won't it be easier if the machine just does that for me? If I want a glass I just browse the stored inventory and it spits out my requested item.
What we want long term is a machine that does all the work, e.g. that can spit out requested items and which when returned to the machine will clean and store them (the same idea works for any of clothing, cutlery, tools, shoes etc).
Why should I have to take the folded clothes or washed dishes and go pack them away? Won't it be easier if the machine just does that for me? If I want a glass I just browse the stored inventory and it spits out my requested item.
I do just that and it works nice for 4 people family
Standardized plates. Add DRM so no one can feed it knockoffs. That is how the coffee pots do it.
But seriously, standardized is the only way such a system could work unless you have a robot at the sink.
That said, a left and right washer is the easier approach. One is dirty,the other is clean. This obviates the need for putting dishes away. This also obviates the need for dishes to sit in the sink (ie because you hadn't put the clean dishes up yet.). Once the dirty is filled and the clean is empty, the washer runs, and the clean and dirty designations switch.
But seriously, standardized is the only way such a system could work unless you have a robot at the sink.
That said, a left and right washer is the easier approach. One is dirty,the other is clean. This obviates the need for putting dishes away. This also obviates the need for dishes to sit in the sink (ie because you hadn't put the clean dishes up yet.). Once the dirty is filled and the clean is empty, the washer runs, and the clean and dirty designations switch.
I don't want a dishwasher that can't wash tupperware
If you would add some kind washer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dish_drying_cabinet you would get this.
The heatworks tetra countertop dishwasher looks like they have exactly what you're looking for. Not surprisingly (but only in hindsight) they are an on-demand hot water heater company.
https://myheatworks.com/blogs/news/heatworks-announced-conne...
https://myheatworks.com/blogs/news/heatworks-announced-conne...
So dynamic vs batch processing
that is a great idea, you could also have it watch over one side of a double kitchen sink and pick up and clean any recognizable item placed within the half of the sink
> Lastly, it spits out the clean items either completely (or mostly) dry at the end of the process.
While you wait around it to catch plates as they are ejected? The regular dishwasher is better, because it can also double as a rack for plates and cutlery and you can just start it and do something else.
While you wait around it to catch plates as they are ejected? The regular dishwasher is better, because it can also double as a rack for plates and cutlery and you can just start it and do something else.
You misunderstand the point. It could easily just have a rack that it deposits cleaned items on, that could slide out like a conventional washer. It's something that I've thought about as well.
I found a hack for #1 (I'm an architect) - I fit houses with 2 dishwashers side by side. You simply move dishes from one to the other, and start it when it's full. Think of the dishwasher as a robotic closet that automatically washes your dishes.
It takes less than 5 min to take out the dishes from a full dishwasher even a large one.
I don’t care how many downvotes this get but how lazy can one person be.
Also I found even a better way and that is not to use the dishwasher at all besides after a dinner party or a large cooking session during the weekend.
I live with my partner and it doesn’t take more than 10min to do the dishes at the end of each day without using a dishwasher.
I don’t care how many downvotes this get but how lazy can one person be.
Also I found even a better way and that is not to use the dishwasher at all besides after a dinner party or a large cooking session during the weekend.
I live with my partner and it doesn’t take more than 10min to do the dishes at the end of each day without using a dishwasher.
From research I've done lately, I found that new dishwashers are more environment friendly than washing dishes manually (taking into account water + electricity). So it's not only time saving it's also greener.
This is like saying that getting a Tesla is greener than walking (once laundry is taken into consideration).
Which is true, if I was to walk from Land's End to John O Groats then I would need a lot of food for that plus the overnight stays in guest houses would not be that green as the sheets would be changed daily rather weekly-ish.
A friend of mine is not capable of washing dishes unless there is a scorching hot tap at full beam running straight to the plughole for rinsing purposes, no hand basin is used and the plug is nowhere to be seen. No draining board support is allowed to spoil the kitchen aesthetic and anything washed has to be dried with those paper towels you just use once and throw in the bin.
Fortunately for people like my friend there are dishwashing machines. Since they do have a machine and it has to be put on anyway, there is therefore no harm in my friend using a different cup everytime he wants a cup of tea. Therefore there will be a good dozen mugs and glasses in there by the time the machine goes on.
Undoubtedly the dishwasher definitely makes sense and is more economical now!!!
Meanwhile I just make do with the same cup that I wash each time I need it, a quick rinse, usually without chemicals. Come main meal time I also manage to wash as I cook so there is only the plates and a couple of pans to wash at the end. Of course you could put the dishwasher on for that or wonder what happens if you have a vast Mormon family, but it does not have to be the case that the dishwasher is greener.
Which is true, if I was to walk from Land's End to John O Groats then I would need a lot of food for that plus the overnight stays in guest houses would not be that green as the sheets would be changed daily rather weekly-ish.
A friend of mine is not capable of washing dishes unless there is a scorching hot tap at full beam running straight to the plughole for rinsing purposes, no hand basin is used and the plug is nowhere to be seen. No draining board support is allowed to spoil the kitchen aesthetic and anything washed has to be dried with those paper towels you just use once and throw in the bin.
Fortunately for people like my friend there are dishwashing machines. Since they do have a machine and it has to be put on anyway, there is therefore no harm in my friend using a different cup everytime he wants a cup of tea. Therefore there will be a good dozen mugs and glasses in there by the time the machine goes on.
Undoubtedly the dishwasher definitely makes sense and is more economical now!!!
Meanwhile I just make do with the same cup that I wash each time I need it, a quick rinse, usually without chemicals. Come main meal time I also manage to wash as I cook so there is only the plates and a couple of pans to wash at the end. Of course you could put the dishwasher on for that or wonder what happens if you have a vast Mormon family, but it does not have to be the case that the dishwasher is greener.
Are you accounting for manufacturing or just usage?
Well, taking account US-level use of water and electricity (eg. let the faucet run and wash the dishes leisurely, wasting water in the process).
Not sure it is as green as "have some predetermined amount of water at the ready and wash dishes with it", as is the case in much of the developing world (and could be an alternative for the developed world too if environmental costs were a concern).
Plus the cost of water+electricity to develop, pack, transport, etc a dishwasher could be big too.
Of course it could be premature optimization -- if 99.99% of the water is wasted in other uses.
Not sure it is as green as "have some predetermined amount of water at the ready and wash dishes with it", as is the case in much of the developing world (and could be an alternative for the developed world too if environmental costs were a concern).
Plus the cost of water+electricity to develop, pack, transport, etc a dishwasher could be big too.
Of course it could be premature optimization -- if 99.99% of the water is wasted in other uses.
> Of course it could be premature optimization -- if 99.99% of the water is wasted in other uses.
Yards. (At least in my part of the country, you have to water them fairly heavily.)
Yards. (At least in my part of the country, you have to water them fairly heavily.)
> I don’t care how many downvotes this get but how lazy can one person be.
I downvoted but just to answer your question: INFINITY. INFINITY LAZY is the goal. Absolutely zero milliseconds worth of mindless toils would be my ideal number in life. That is the spec.
I downvoted but just to answer your question: INFINITY. INFINITY LAZY is the goal. Absolutely zero milliseconds worth of mindless toils would be my ideal number in life. That is the spec.
Am I the only one who enjoys these mindless toils? I just listen to a podcast or audio book and relax. Domestic duties are great for this. It's almost mediation.
My girlfriend just bought dimming lamps for the living room so we can adjust the light levels in the evening.
She CAN NOT see the benefit of having wireless bulbs controlled by your phone for this purpose. Apparently this is "too lazy".
TOO LAZY. IS THAT A THING?!
She CAN NOT see the benefit of having wireless bulbs controlled by your phone for this purpose. Apparently this is "too lazy".
TOO LAZY. IS THAT A THING?!
Yes it is. The scientific name is "diminishing returns".
(And in physical life, if one overdoes it with laziness, they can get from obese to pressure ulcers)
(And in physical life, if one overdoes it with laziness, they can get from obese to pressure ulcers)
Right, sure, but we're talking in a thread about a machine which folds your clothes for you, or a house with two dishwashers so you can use them straight from one and put them into the other afterwards. I'm not advocating lying in a La-Z-Boy wearing a VR headset, eating nothing but Cheetos and Mountain Dew for 6 days straight. I'm talking about dimming all the lights in the room when you put on a film, or having them slowly brighten as you wake up in the morning.
And as for diminishing returns, I would argue that it is not. With proper configuration you can automate the entire morning routine; Lights up with your alarm, off when you leave the house, on when you arrive home, off when you go to bed. Just minor conveniences that make life more pleasurable.
And as for diminishing returns, I would argue that it is not. With proper configuration you can automate the entire morning routine; Lights up with your alarm, off when you leave the house, on when you arrive home, off when you go to bed. Just minor conveniences that make life more pleasurable.
>I'm talking about dimming all the lights in the room when you put on a film, or having them slowly brighten as you wake up in the morning.
Yes. And while that is nice to have, it's by no means as useful as "automatic clothes folding". A dimmer takes like 5 seconds to dim when you put on a movie -- whereas clothes folding takes up to tens of minutes.
Yes. And while that is nice to have, it's by no means as useful as "automatic clothes folding". A dimmer takes like 5 seconds to dim when you put on a movie -- whereas clothes folding takes up to tens of minutes.
That is a lousy spec for real life. Since mindless toils in some form will always be part of our lives, it makes sense to optimize them reasonably, but have a mental setup of being at peace with some of it. Otherwise it's an uphill battle with you on losing side.
Laziness is a crappy mental setup for long term relationships, for parenting, heck even for work (I get some brilliant engineering work comes from laziness but it's a bit different type, and applied only sporadically).
In fact, some mindless work can be a sort of meditation.
Laziness is a crappy mental setup for long term relationships, for parenting, heck even for work (I get some brilliant engineering work comes from laziness but it's a bit different type, and applied only sporadically).
In fact, some mindless work can be a sort of meditation.
You're underestimating your particular circumstances,
and forgetting a gamechanger: roommates.
I can't even begin to count how many fights, squabbles, arguments disappeared when we got a dishwasher. The value of an empty sink shouldn't be taken for granted no matter your circumstances.
I have a question tho, isn’t it just moving the problem to a different location? I.E. not starting, clearing or w/e with the dishwasher?
I use a dishwasher but at the rate I go through dishes (slowly) it isn't particularly convenient, but I've run into some hurdles with the "clean immediately after use" workflow. I'm interested in hearing tips.
I never seem to be able to wring rags/sponges out well enough to stop them from quickly getting smelly. I would expect spectacular bacterial growth on a soft surface periodically refreshed with water and nutrients, and that seems to be exactly what happens. My parents swear by this approach but they always have a stinky sink and a gross scrubbing sponge/cloth. Do you have a better technique or do you just learn to be one with the bacteria-ball :-) ?
As for soap, dish soap leave my hands feeling so dry and awful that it takes regular application of hand cream over days before picking up paper, touching fuzzy fabric, and typing no longer bring immediate physical discomfort. Gloves solve the problem, but putting on + taking off gloves to scrub a single dish has poor time economy. Again, do you have a better technique or do you just live with it?
I never seem to be able to wring rags/sponges out well enough to stop them from quickly getting smelly. I would expect spectacular bacterial growth on a soft surface periodically refreshed with water and nutrients, and that seems to be exactly what happens. My parents swear by this approach but they always have a stinky sink and a gross scrubbing sponge/cloth. Do you have a better technique or do you just learn to be one with the bacteria-ball :-) ?
As for soap, dish soap leave my hands feeling so dry and awful that it takes regular application of hand cream over days before picking up paper, touching fuzzy fabric, and typing no longer bring immediate physical discomfort. Gloves solve the problem, but putting on + taking off gloves to scrub a single dish has poor time economy. Again, do you have a better technique or do you just live with it?
I want a robot to do my job so I can have time to be at home with my family, travel, make more meaningful memories, and have the time and energy to fold my own laundry.
I am far more interested in automating the parts of the day that really enslave me so that I am free to spend my time exactly as I wish. I spend maybe 1hr a week folding laundry, tops, but I spend 40hrs a week at a desk doing something I am at best somewhat interested in but generally wishing I was at home/away doing things I enjoy with people I truly care about.
The future I really care about is one where people don't have to spend nearly all their waking hours doing things they don't really care much about. If I could have a farming robot that could grow all my food for me in a self sustaining closed cycle, that would revolutionize my life. Add solar and decentralized sanitation/water and I really don't need much else.
These are idealistic naive fantasies, but there is something to it. Technology has the potential to really free us well beyond folding clothes and washing dishes. And the task of folding clothes actually sounds more complex than growing food on a hobby farm.
I am far more interested in automating the parts of the day that really enslave me so that I am free to spend my time exactly as I wish. I spend maybe 1hr a week folding laundry, tops, but I spend 40hrs a week at a desk doing something I am at best somewhat interested in but generally wishing I was at home/away doing things I enjoy with people I truly care about.
The future I really care about is one where people don't have to spend nearly all their waking hours doing things they don't really care much about. If I could have a farming robot that could grow all my food for me in a self sustaining closed cycle, that would revolutionize my life. Add solar and decentralized sanitation/water and I really don't need much else.
These are idealistic naive fantasies, but there is something to it. Technology has the potential to really free us well beyond folding clothes and washing dishes. And the task of folding clothes actually sounds more complex than growing food on a hobby farm.
Yeah if a robot can do your job you aren't going to have a job at all for long.
I don't want the job, I want the output of the job. If I can have something else do the work and produce the output for me then I'll take that and spend my time doing things I care about.
Your boss wants the output of the job. If he can have something else do the work and produce the output for him then he'll take that and fire you. You will have no money.
My 'job' could be working for myself. I could be my own boss farming my land. But that shit is hard labour and requires heaps of attention, knowledge, and early mornings. Right now it's easier for me to work for someone else, take a slice of my output (in currency) from my boss and then use that to buy the stuff I really need; food, energy, clothing, and so on.
You see, if I can be self sufficient I don't need a job with a boss. My so-called job could be farming my land and I could use automation to make that basically trivial and escape the desk job that consumes nearly every waking hour of my adult life.
This is just one simplistic way of looking at what I am talking about. My overall point is that having a vision of using automation to free up fractions of your workplace dominated day is missing a trick. We should be finding ways of freeing up that 8hr a day time-suck. Automating menial chores around the house is a distraction from the real goal.
You see, if I can be self sufficient I don't need a job with a boss. My so-called job could be farming my land and I could use automation to make that basically trivial and escape the desk job that consumes nearly every waking hour of my adult life.
This is just one simplistic way of looking at what I am talking about. My overall point is that having a vision of using automation to free up fractions of your workplace dominated day is missing a trick. We should be finding ways of freeing up that 8hr a day time-suck. Automating menial chores around the house is a distraction from the real goal.
>foldimate:
Here is a video of it working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uay9hzwusk
This looks like it would take quite a lot longer than just folding the clothes yourself.
Here is a video of it working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uay9hzwusk
This looks like it would take quite a lot longer than just folding the clothes yourself.
I was going to comment that it doesn’t matter how slow it is as long as it finishes overnight or whatever. Good thing I decided to actually watch the video first. What’s the point if a person has to be so involved!?
Now we just need another robot that can take the clothes out of the dryer and lay them out flat for the folding machine.
The closest I've seen to a full solution:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/pr2...
Watching this video, it's clearly edited.
First off, the left and right video are completely different, the left isn't a zoomed in version of the right. If you go to 43 seconds, you can see the folded clothes do not match.
Secondly, it's not a continuous shot. There is a cut when the shirts are added to the bottom part of the machine at 25 seconds, and again at 51 seconds. You need to watch carefully, but it's pretty obviously something is not right about this video.
Also, the CES videos show the same pile of clothes appearing at the bottom, regardless of what order the clothes go in the machine. I would guess the machine doesn't yet fold clothes, or maybe it has issues with certain clothing like button up shirts.
First off, the left and right video are completely different, the left isn't a zoomed in version of the right. If you go to 43 seconds, you can see the folded clothes do not match.
Secondly, it's not a continuous shot. There is a cut when the shirts are added to the bottom part of the machine at 25 seconds, and again at 51 seconds. You need to watch carefully, but it's pretty obviously something is not right about this video.
Also, the CES videos show the same pile of clothes appearing at the bottom, regardless of what order the clothes go in the machine. I would guess the machine doesn't yet fold clothes, or maybe it has issues with certain clothing like button up shirts.
With a $5 folding board it would probably take less time effort to do the folding myself.
If they can combine that with a washer/dryer, I'd buy it. Dirty laundry in, folded laundry out. Doesn't matter how long it takes, can work overnight. But the video doesn't look like that would work anytime soon.
You can also just get two washing machines. Load all the dirties into one then run it and as you use them load them into the other. Bam. Clean dishes and no putting them away.
I elaborated on this in a different comment, but I think there could be dishwashers divided in two independent halves that worked as you say, without requiring double the space.
Is that not effectively the same as having two smaller dishwashers?
You can almost already do #1 - just store your dishes in your dishwasher. Pull out the clean dishes you need, put the dirty ones in the sink. When the sink is full, put them in the dishwasher, turn it on. Repeat.
Like I said - almost.
All that would be needed to make this actually work would be to own a second dishwasher, placed next to the first. So instead of putting the dishes into the sink, you put them into the second dishwasher; when it is full, you turn it on, then use it as the source for clean dishes. Ping-pong between the two.
The only other problem is the fact that this system wouldn't work for a large family (more than 2 people and place settings), or for food prep (all the dishes, plus pots and pans, etc) - unless both dishwashers were much larger, or the dishwasher were redesigned as a part of the storage cabinet system, etc.
In other words, the entire kitchen would almost have to be designed around the dishwasher. This is ultimately the solution to the problem, though. In industrial automation, you don't usually design the machines and processes to work like a human would, but rather optimize the processes for the machines, and the machines for the processes, to the point where a human can't even do the tasks any longer with the available machines, because they were designed for other machines to use.
Kitchens are designed around humans; you'd have to re-design the kitchen to be more machine-centric in the utensil/plate storage and cleaning process in order for your "dish robot" to become a reality (in which you would be working inside the "dish robot" you would call a "kitchen"). I really think you could do #1 (and likely #2 as well) - but it would require a huge redesign into what a "kitchen" (and "laundry room") is and how it works (and how humans interact with it) vs how these rooms (and machines within) currently are designed.
As such, I don't expect that such systems would be easy to build, inexpensive, or very flexible to usage. But they would or could be made highly automated.
Like I said - almost.
All that would be needed to make this actually work would be to own a second dishwasher, placed next to the first. So instead of putting the dishes into the sink, you put them into the second dishwasher; when it is full, you turn it on, then use it as the source for clean dishes. Ping-pong between the two.
The only other problem is the fact that this system wouldn't work for a large family (more than 2 people and place settings), or for food prep (all the dishes, plus pots and pans, etc) - unless both dishwashers were much larger, or the dishwasher were redesigned as a part of the storage cabinet system, etc.
In other words, the entire kitchen would almost have to be designed around the dishwasher. This is ultimately the solution to the problem, though. In industrial automation, you don't usually design the machines and processes to work like a human would, but rather optimize the processes for the machines, and the machines for the processes, to the point where a human can't even do the tasks any longer with the available machines, because they were designed for other machines to use.
Kitchens are designed around humans; you'd have to re-design the kitchen to be more machine-centric in the utensil/plate storage and cleaning process in order for your "dish robot" to become a reality (in which you would be working inside the "dish robot" you would call a "kitchen"). I really think you could do #1 (and likely #2 as well) - but it would require a huge redesign into what a "kitchen" (and "laundry room") is and how it works (and how humans interact with it) vs how these rooms (and machines within) currently are designed.
As such, I don't expect that such systems would be easy to build, inexpensive, or very flexible to usage. But they would or could be made highly automated.
> Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.
Here's the solution:
1. Get a 2nd dishwasher.
2. Get two placards, one that says "clean" and the other that says "dirty". Affix one to each washer.
3. When you need a dish, take it from the washer with the "clean" placard. When you're done with it, put it in the washer marked "dirty".
4. When the dirty washer is full and the clean washer is empty, run the dirty washer and swap the placards.
Voila! Now you never have to waste any time putting away your dishes.
Here's the solution:
1. Get a 2nd dishwasher.
2. Get two placards, one that says "clean" and the other that says "dirty". Affix one to each washer.
3. When you need a dish, take it from the washer with the "clean" placard. When you're done with it, put it in the washer marked "dirty".
4. When the dirty washer is full and the clean washer is empty, run the dirty washer and swap the placards.
Voila! Now you never have to waste any time putting away your dishes.
this reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox,_goose_and_bag_of_beans_pu...
I saw a clever idea on the internet for #1. Get two dish washers. One is always clean, one dirty. Eliminating the need to unload and put away dishes.
That sorta sounds great... if you're a bachelor. I doubt my SO would be very impressed if I ditched the cupboards for another dishwasher.
The two dishwasher thing is getting traction. Cupboards are just another place to accumulate things you don't need.
In the end this would work if one ditched all of the cupboards for dishwashers.
The "fold them and put them away" apparently was at CES - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/seven-dreams-robot-laundroid...
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> I have no use for drones, or bipedal robots, or some kind of other walking robot at all
Bipedal is the hard half of the fold clothes and put them away
Bipedal is the hard half of the fold clothes and put them away
Why? Personally I'm hoping for some kind of telescopic arm in the ceiling, bipedal robots still take up storage space and get in the way, ceiling arms could work around me, are probably easier to deliver and are probably better to interact with "hey arm, can you give me a reading light and put my book away when I fall asleep".
Wow, that’s a brilliant idea… applying the wisdom and thinking we currently use leads us to inventions that are similar to a dishwasher, or inventions that are similar to a human, but really all you need is a simple robotic arm in the ceiling, some sensors, and a computer which can be constantly updated.
Visualise yourself sleeping with an arm hanging above you. What if someone hacks the arm and it kills you in your sleep? You can't be sure with all the vulnerabilities. I wouldn't be able to sleep with such a dangerous thing in the same room.
Step 1: Don't connect it to the Internet.
But then how would it sign advertising to the deaf people in your household?
When I was a young robotics engineer, I designed a house with a hidden ceiling that hid the mechanical parts for such a robot. There were 4'x4' panels with releases and actuators to open up a hole for the arm to descend through. A 28'x28' space would only need 10 actuators (edge panels can't open). But alas 30 years later I've still not built it.
25 years ago, in a high school English exam, I wrote a short story about just such a design. As is the way of such stories, the arm throttled a small child after a miscommunication! I was a little bothered that I might have unconsciously cribbed it from Asimov that I read at that age. Mechanical ceiling arms seem likely to be terrifying even if they work.
Doesn't have to be terrifying. Make it soft and squishy and use artificial muscles not gears and motors. It doesn't have to be able to lift my piano.
I don't find ceiling tentacles any more reassuring!
Doesn't work so well if the laundry is in the basement and the bedroom closet is on the 2nd floor.
A general purpose bipedal that can perform basic human actions is considerably more flexible that telescopic arms fixed in the ceiling.
And if it's capable of folding clothes it's not much of a stretch to imagine it could also provide a light an put your book away.
A general purpose bipedal that can perform basic human actions is considerably more flexible that telescopic arms fixed in the ceiling.
And if it's capable of folding clothes it's not much of a stretch to imagine it could also provide a light an put your book away.
Why ceiling? Is your floor not flat enough for wheels? A Roomba with arms would suit me.
My floor isn't flat enough for my roomba clone, it get's stuck on a lip. More importanly though, my floor has all sorts of stuff on it, the clothes I wore yesterday, that box I haven't thrown out and various other random things, along with myself.
My ceiling is remarkably free of obstacles and has a lot of unused space.
My ceiling is remarkably free of obstacles and has a lot of unused space.
If only you had a robot to move those things you leave on the floor.
That requires either some decision making from the robot or a lot of prompting me for answer's, neither of which I enjoy. A pair of shorts on the floor? I might want to wear them later, I don't want them back in the drawer or in the washing machine, I want them there to slip on when the pizza guy comes. The box I might want thrown out instantly but I could have other plans for it.
Robots need to be able to work around humans, not make more work for them.
Robots need to be able to work around humans, not make more work for them.
how about a robot whose job is to pick things up off the floor and attach them to hooks hanging from the ceiling? that way all of the floor-based robots would be free and clear to conduct their business
Hooks hanging from the ceilings.
Robotic arms coming out the ceiling.
It sounds like I'd be living in some dystopian nightmare.
It sounds like I'd be living in some dystopian nightmare.
for 1, a dishwasher covers (wash) and in some cases (dry) - the putting away is the least time-consuming step so I'm not convinced a robot would be a massive innovation over dishwashers unless it also collected not-in-use washables but that's robot butler levels of complexity.
for 2, I don't know about the US but in the UK you can get small local companies that will wash and iron a sack of laundry for you, and return them folded. I don't know what benefit you would see by having that automated instead of done by a human. It's fairly cheap too I understand.
for 2, I don't know about the US but in the UK you can get small local companies that will wash and iron a sack of laundry for you, and return them folded. I don't know what benefit you would see by having that automated instead of done by a human. It's fairly cheap too I understand.
> the putting away is the least time-consuming step
I would imagine that for most people, putting away is the annoying and effortful step of the cleaning process. I wouldn't really count gathering dirty dishes as a step that's specific to having a machine since without a machine since they'd need to be gathered to be cleaned anyway. Once dishes are gathered, loading the dishwasher is easy because the dishes are already as close to the dishwasher as physically possible in most kitchen layouts, the specific organization of the dishes in the washer is generally more flexible than how they are organized in the cabinets, and gravity assists you while loading while it works against you while putting away.
> I don't know what benefit you would see by having that automated instead of done by a human.
The same benefit as anything else that's automated - not having to deal with humans. A machine where you could dump dirty laundry in any time and have it pop out neat and folded would be far superior than having to work with a third-party schedule and live human beings, just like an ATM is far superior to a bank teller 99% of the time if you need cash at a specific time and location.
I would imagine that for most people, putting away is the annoying and effortful step of the cleaning process. I wouldn't really count gathering dirty dishes as a step that's specific to having a machine since without a machine since they'd need to be gathered to be cleaned anyway. Once dishes are gathered, loading the dishwasher is easy because the dishes are already as close to the dishwasher as physically possible in most kitchen layouts, the specific organization of the dishes in the washer is generally more flexible than how they are organized in the cabinets, and gravity assists you while loading while it works against you while putting away.
> I don't know what benefit you would see by having that automated instead of done by a human.
The same benefit as anything else that's automated - not having to deal with humans. A machine where you could dump dirty laundry in any time and have it pop out neat and folded would be far superior than having to work with a third-party schedule and live human beings, just like an ATM is far superior to a bank teller 99% of the time if you need cash at a specific time and location.
For dishwasher, for me the big missing piece is Tupper I can use in my kids' lunches. I'm always suspicious of breaking things down in the Tupper with the scalding dishwasher treatment, and glassware is too dangerous, so I still do that stuff by hand.
I have been putting even cheap plastic tupperware in the dishwasher on the top shelf with heat dry. Never had a problem. I think that was a problem decades ago that have been resolved with better plastics and controlled drying temps.
For 1 if it collects dishes from sink/dirty tray and clean with dry and puts in clean tray, Put and get clean dish back in max 90 secs? Sort of instant cleaner?
2. In the US it would cost at least $400/yr per person for a pickup/drop off laundry service. Foldimate sells for $850, and can presumably service an entire household. If it was more capable (just put clean clothes in a hopper, or connects directly to a dryer) it would be significantly more economic then human labor.
If the Foldimate was more capable, the laundry services would start using them and their prices would drop accordingly, no?
I'm not sure how laundry services currently work. Assuming there is a robot like Foldimate maybe laundry services will use them and maybe laundry services will be unable to compete with coin-operated Foldimates located at self-service laundry facilities.
I assume that the people at those laundry services would be so practised at folding clothes that it would take longer for them to feed it into the machine then to just fold the clothes themselves.
1. The thing that preventing me to put a dirty set of dishes in a dishwasher is a clean set of dishes from the last wash. Most of the time I just end up watching them by hand.
2. You still have to arrange time to meet them or drive there, putting your clothes together and then taking them back
2. You still have to arrange time to meet them or drive there, putting your clothes together and then taking them back
I forgot to mention, the UK services pick up from your house.
ideal case for 1... the robot rinses dishes in the sink and places them in the dishwasher, starts wash at end of day (midnight) then in the morning transfers clean and dry dishes from dishwasher to cabinets. This could be a counter mounted device (with arms) that sits above the dishwasher (next to the sink) and below the cabinets that it fills.
A general purpose housekeeping robot would be revolutionary and would sell extremely well, but we are probably decades away from having one that would even function correctly, much less be commercially viable.
But we don't need a general purpose robot, just a degree of automation that goes beyond what was achieved in the 1960s (washer/dryer/dishwasher).
I think number 1 could be done by making some changes to dishes and the way they are stored.
I want a robot that can clean the dust off my shelves without breaking things and clean spiderwebs. That seems really hard.
I want a robot that can clean the dust off my shelves without breaking things and clean spiderwebs. That seems really hard.
Received a google home mini for xmas, was curious to see what I could do with it. On trying to play music, would not make http requests to youtube for me, wanted me to have Google Play account. Then I tried to query 'closest open pharmacy to my house' a dozen different ways but would not do it. If I could make queries of the nature I stated, and if these voice assistants would just stop trying to get me to download their apps and make http requests to public sites for me, it would blow things wide open!
I received one as well. Most of the time it sits on mute, to be honest. (It sits right next to the TV and sometimes the TV would cue it into action and it would respond to what it thought was a legitimate query)
I found that for some music, it would find a radio station named after exactly what I was looking for (for instance a 'station' that only plays the one band or one song) after prompting me to get Google Play.
The most used function on there is the built-in trivia app my girlfriend and I play Saturday mornings while we're doing other things.
I never had a real problem with the search function, though. I'm surprised it wouldn't find results for that question. Did you have location disabled?
I found that for some music, it would find a radio station named after exactly what I was looking for (for instance a 'station' that only plays the one band or one song) after prompting me to get Google Play.
The most used function on there is the built-in trivia app my girlfriend and I play Saturday mornings while we're doing other things.
I never had a real problem with the search function, though. I'm surprised it wouldn't find results for that question. Did you have location disabled?
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I thought that too about vacuuming before I got my Neato Botvac D5. Life changing. Now I just tidy up the floor, and push a button.
Their latest update lets it map your home. While some might have privacy concerns, it is admittedly a very cool feature to me as I can see exactly where it did and did not clean.
Ultimately, it saves me time, and my time is valuable. So I'd rather spend less time cleaning and more time doing other things, even if I technically am capable of doing the cleaning.
Their latest update lets it map your home. While some might have privacy concerns, it is admittedly a very cool feature to me as I can see exactly where it did and did not clean.
Ultimately, it saves me time, and my time is valuable. So I'd rather spend less time cleaning and more time doing other things, even if I technically am capable of doing the cleaning.
> 1) Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.
I had a thought about this some time ago. What if every cupboard was a dishwasher? You just put dirty dishes away in the "cupboard", and then they get washed once the machine detects that there are too many dirty ones, and it can blow air through the cupboard to dry them off once it's done, and then you just open a cupboard and take out some clean dishes, whenever you want some.
It would even be fine if you had to manually tell the cupboard when to wash its contents.
You'd probably have to have about twice as many glasses, plates, bowls, etc. as you really need, so that you don't end up having all of the plates stuck inside one cupboard while wet. You always want to have everything you need available, clean, and dry. I don't think needing extra dishes would be a dominating cost, though.
You'd just have to run plumbing and electricity to all of your cupboard locations, buy enough tiny dishwashers, and then mount them on the wall. Probably could be done for only a few thousand pounds.
I had a thought about this some time ago. What if every cupboard was a dishwasher? You just put dirty dishes away in the "cupboard", and then they get washed once the machine detects that there are too many dirty ones, and it can blow air through the cupboard to dry them off once it's done, and then you just open a cupboard and take out some clean dishes, whenever you want some.
It would even be fine if you had to manually tell the cupboard when to wash its contents.
You'd probably have to have about twice as many glasses, plates, bowls, etc. as you really need, so that you don't end up having all of the plates stuck inside one cupboard while wet. You always want to have everything you need available, clean, and dry. I don't think needing extra dishes would be a dominating cost, though.
You'd just have to run plumbing and electricity to all of your cupboard locations, buy enough tiny dishwashers, and then mount them on the wall. Probably could be done for only a few thousand pounds.
> You just put dirty dishes away in the "cupboard", and then they get washed once the machine detects that there are too many dirty ones
That would mean either you wash every time you put in a dirty dish (which would be wasteful) - or you accept that you always have some dirty dishes mixed between your clean ones, including the food remains, fluids, smell, etc that come with them. Sounds really unpleasant.
More practical problems:
- Dishes can be stored a lot more space-efficiently in a normal cupboard than in a dish washer. You'd need a lot more space if all your cupboards are dishwashers. Putting in dishes correctly is also more complex for a dishwasher than for a cupboard - so instead of saving the effort to empty the dishwasher, you've multiplied that effort to all of your cupboards.
- A cleaning run takes time. If cleaning runs start automatically, you'll have random parts of your kitchen inaccessible at random points of time.
- If you used a normal dishwasher you find out very quickly that drying is not perfect - if you leave clean dishes for too long in the airtight compartment, you might as well rinse them again. If the cupboard are meant to store the dishes permanently, that problem will get bigger.
That would mean either you wash every time you put in a dirty dish (which would be wasteful) - or you accept that you always have some dirty dishes mixed between your clean ones, including the food remains, fluids, smell, etc that come with them. Sounds really unpleasant.
More practical problems:
- Dishes can be stored a lot more space-efficiently in a normal cupboard than in a dish washer. You'd need a lot more space if all your cupboards are dishwashers. Putting in dishes correctly is also more complex for a dishwasher than for a cupboard - so instead of saving the effort to empty the dishwasher, you've multiplied that effort to all of your cupboards.
- A cleaning run takes time. If cleaning runs start automatically, you'll have random parts of your kitchen inaccessible at random points of time.
- If you used a normal dishwasher you find out very quickly that drying is not perfect - if you leave clean dishes for too long in the airtight compartment, you might as well rinse them again. If the cupboard are meant to store the dishes permanently, that problem will get bigger.
> you'll have random parts of your kitchen inaccessible at random points of time.
Rethink how we store things. Rather then all plates in one place, all bowls in another ect. you mix everything up so each cabinet has the same variety of objects in it.
I know this only deals with one of your extremely valid points. I know some of the sorting/organizing people on here (the ones who label their label guns) would freak.
Rethink how we store things. Rather then all plates in one place, all bowls in another ect. you mix everything up so each cabinet has the same variety of objects in it.
I know this only deals with one of your extremely valid points. I know some of the sorting/organizing people on here (the ones who label their label guns) would freak.
Thanks for taking the effort to think up a solution, but I'm not sold.
> Rethink how we store things
My apologies, but no. I'd like to not design my whole kitchen (and kitchen usage patterns) around my dishwasher.
> Rather then all plates in one place, all bowls in another ect. you mix everything up so each cabinet has the same variety of objects in it.
How would I quickly find the dishes I'm looking for? (No, installing RFID sensors or watertight cameras in each cupboard, "indexing" the dishes and providing a smartphone app with search is not an option.)
> Rethink how we store things
My apologies, but no. I'd like to not design my whole kitchen (and kitchen usage patterns) around my dishwasher.
> Rather then all plates in one place, all bowls in another ect. you mix everything up so each cabinet has the same variety of objects in it.
How would I quickly find the dishes I'm looking for? (No, installing RFID sensors or watertight cameras in each cupboard, "indexing" the dishes and providing a smartphone app with search is not an option.)
The Finns have had something similar to this for decades: dish racks that are cupboards [1]. I wonder why such cheap solutions are not thought of first
[1] https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/d0/d5/a8d0d5ce749c4ad9e8dc37a1c...
[1] https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/d0/d5/a8d0d5ce749c4ad9e8dc37a1c...
I thought of something similar a long time ago: A regular-sized dishwasher that is divided into two working independent halves, also auto-drying after washing.
You'd place your dirty plates into the left, turn it on when full, place the next plates into the right, then the clean plates would be on the left while you'd fill the right one with the dirty ones, and keep alternating. This way you don't have to put anything away, you'd take the plates as needed from the dishwasher.
The nice thing about this is that it'd work with current dishwasher sizes, and no messy weird electrified cupboards. It could be manufactured today because it doesn't require special engineering, it doesn't require weird kitchens, and it's not a solution looking for a problem like some gadgets in the article.
You'd place your dirty plates into the left, turn it on when full, place the next plates into the right, then the clean plates would be on the left while you'd fill the right one with the dirty ones, and keep alternating. This way you don't have to put anything away, you'd take the plates as needed from the dishwasher.
The nice thing about this is that it'd work with current dishwasher sizes, and no messy weird electrified cupboards. It could be manufactured today because it doesn't require special engineering, it doesn't require weird kitchens, and it's not a solution looking for a problem like some gadgets in the article.
Its already becoming fashionable to have two washers. One to store the washed, dry items in and another to put the dirty in. You rotate which washer is the dirty one each time to save putting stuff away
A lot of people have two dishwashers; that way you don't have to move the dishes to a cabinet; you use one dishwasher as a cabinet.
1) Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.
I have actually thought about this, since this is a chore that I absolutely hate. In my view no one should be subject to the task of making dishes. Some people seem to like it, God bless them !
Initial prototype will be to work with steel utensils to avoid damages. Current object detection techniques are sufficient to recognize plates, glasses, dirt etc.
I envision a setup something like this - two robotic hands sitting on top of the wash basin with a camera head. One of the hands has a built in tap and the other a detachable scrubber with soap dispenser. One arm picks up the utensil, rotates as required, sprays water as required. The other arm scrubs off the dirt until it's clean.A camera module watches until the cleaning is accomplished. Once clean, first arm piles up similar dishes in stacks.
This made up for a good hallway conversation and I had forgotten about it since then. Thanks for rekindling the thought.
I have actually thought about this, since this is a chore that I absolutely hate. In my view no one should be subject to the task of making dishes. Some people seem to like it, God bless them !
Initial prototype will be to work with steel utensils to avoid damages. Current object detection techniques are sufficient to recognize plates, glasses, dirt etc.
I envision a setup something like this - two robotic hands sitting on top of the wash basin with a camera head. One of the hands has a built in tap and the other a detachable scrubber with soap dispenser. One arm picks up the utensil, rotates as required, sprays water as required. The other arm scrubs off the dirt until it's clean.A camera module watches until the cleaning is accomplished. Once clean, first arm piles up similar dishes in stacks.
This made up for a good hallway conversation and I had forgotten about it since then. Thanks for rekindling the thought.
This seems like a considerable amount of mechanical complexity (two multi-axis arms) to replace what's currently done with a jet of water...
Yes the mechanical complexity is by no means trivial, but I wouldn't call it unreasonably difficult. Reaching for an object in 3D space is bit of a path planning headache.
"what's currently done with a jet of water..." I didn't catch this. Do you mean the current dishwashers ?
"what's currently done with a jet of water..." I didn't catch this. Do you mean the current dishwashers ?
Can we talk ?
Sure, email in my profile. Shoot me a message.
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1) Store your plates in the dishwasher.
2) Get a washer/dryer combo. Put it in your closet. Have it double as your hamper. Run it nightly.
2) Get a washer/dryer combo. Put it in your closet. Have it double as your hamper. Run it nightly.
I'll admit #2 is an annoyance for me... but I'll reluctantly bite.
However, I would have a hard time giving up #1 to a machine. I do a great deal of my creative thinking, scheduling, et al during my time hand-washing dishes. I liken it to creative thinking during a shower, I can't imagine it being replaced by a 'bot. I realize YMMV but we all find solace in varying small corners. For me, it's the dishes, for others' it might be a long drive or vacuuming, etc.
I'm a huge proponent of automation, and the advancements that tech will provide in the future, however as an artist I still need the time to procrastinate (ie: THINK). I don't know that I could do this in the solace of a vacuum. I pay $10/mo to listen to white noise on Spotify while I write treatments for various commercial projects.
However, I would have a hard time giving up #1 to a machine. I do a great deal of my creative thinking, scheduling, et al during my time hand-washing dishes. I liken it to creative thinking during a shower, I can't imagine it being replaced by a 'bot. I realize YMMV but we all find solace in varying small corners. For me, it's the dishes, for others' it might be a long drive or vacuuming, etc.
I'm a huge proponent of automation, and the advancements that tech will provide in the future, however as an artist I still need the time to procrastinate (ie: THINK). I don't know that I could do this in the solace of a vacuum. I pay $10/mo to listen to white noise on Spotify while I write treatments for various commercial projects.
There’s an easy way to cut down on laundry - wear your clothes multiple times between cleanings.... honestly I usually wear jeans 2-3 days between washes. Everything else is single day only... except when I go backpacking and then wear the same thing for a week straight. The smell is... complex.
Chinos are fine with 2-3 days of wear between washes, jeans should be fine with a lot more. Unless you're a really sweaty person.
There's an even easier way. Work at home naked.
I thought it's well known that jeans don't get dirty.
Any minute now, I'm expecting someone to pipe up "Oh, I just shower clothed..."
I did this once when I spent a week in a hotel near company HQ and forgot to pack a rotation of shirts in my luggage. I wore my one shirt into the shower each night and shampooed/rinsed it using my body as a support form. To dry it after wringing out I left it on my upside-down laptop overnight, with a busy-wait program running on the laptop to make it nice and toasty.
I actually saw that advice on a running forum as a solution to handle laundry between morning and afternoon runs.
When you go on long hikes, you bring two boxer shorts: one that you wear the entire time, then on the last evening before returning to civilization, you burn it in the campfire and put on the clean one.
It’s also worth looking at what materials you are buying. Typically clothes made from natural fibres breath better, which reduces moisture and odors. Merino wool is especially good for this, so you can wear it longer between washes.
I've gone several years without washing merino wool clothing. You just need to air it out after use.
Unless you're particularly active, or there are other contaminants (spills, mud etc.), a pair of jeans should be fine for a fair bit longer than that.
in most cases, the only reason your clothes get smelly is if you get smelly, so cleaning yourself more often might help. you dont have to shower every day, but cleaning the key areas does help and can easily be done just using the sink and warm water.
even socks will last a lot longer if you just quickly wash your feet every morning or twice a day if you have the time
even socks will last a lot longer if you just quickly wash your feet every morning or twice a day if you have the time
Do you really spend hours on these chores? I can understand if you have one arm, or suffer from narcolepsy, or something else. But most people should be able to clean up after dinner in less than ten minutes, and wash and fold a week's work of laundry in less than half an hour.
It's the ironing that is the time killer for me. It can easily take me 2-3 hours to do a weeks worth of ironing.
On top of that it takes an hour to wash and spin the clothes, and I need to be home for that finishing since wet clothes can't sit in the machine too long.
On top of clothes you ahve bedding that needs washed and ironed and that is a proper pain, especially on my smallish washing machine. That's 2 washes each week to wash bedding, then ironing duvets and sheets takes ages.
And ironing services won't do bedding for some reason.
On top of that it takes an hour to wash and spin the clothes, and I need to be home for that finishing since wet clothes can't sit in the machine too long.
On top of clothes you ahve bedding that needs washed and ironed and that is a proper pain, especially on my smallish washing machine. That's 2 washes each week to wash bedding, then ironing duvets and sheets takes ages.
And ironing services won't do bedding for some reason.
Why would you iron bedsheets? I basically only iron my white collared shirts, and even them just for weddings and funerals. Meaning about one ironing session every second year.
I feel like the solution to these problems might be to use something like rapid 3D printing technology to create and recycle the dishes or clothing.
The dish machine would print using a biodegradable material that could either be recycled back into the machine for reprinting or composted if it is unable to be cleaned.
For clothing I imagine a knitting machine that prints 3D garments on demand using fibers and can also recycle the clothing to reuse the fibers at the end of the wear cycle.
Edit: my main point being that I don't see these being technically solvable using the legacy methods we have created thus far. Why try to make a machine complex enough to identify and fold specific clothing? Why not create a machine that can create something very basic and we adjust our expectations and style.
The dish machine would print using a biodegradable material that could either be recycled back into the machine for reprinting or composted if it is unable to be cleaned.
For clothing I imagine a knitting machine that prints 3D garments on demand using fibers and can also recycle the clothing to reuse the fibers at the end of the wear cycle.
Edit: my main point being that I don't see these being technically solvable using the legacy methods we have created thus far. Why try to make a machine complex enough to identify and fold specific clothing? Why not create a machine that can create something very basic and we adjust our expectations and style.
We could always just move the goalposts a bit. I don't need my clothes folded, I'd be over the moon with a robot that can wash and dry my clothes, then spread them loosely and haphazardly over a "clothes shelf" or something, just spread out enough that I can pick what I need out of the pile without rummaging.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't need Rosie The Robot, maybe just a nifty conveyor belt system or something.
> I'd be over the moon with a robot that can wash and dry my clothes, then spread them loosely and haphazardly over a "clothes shelf" or something
So, what you want is, er, a washer-dryer which performs the additional task of tipping the clothes on the floor when it's done? Washer-dryers exist; they're very common in some European countries. The clothes ejection feature sounds like a minor addition.
So, what you want is, er, a washer-dryer which performs the additional task of tipping the clothes on the floor when it's done? Washer-dryers exist; they're very common in some European countries. The clothes ejection feature sounds like a minor addition.
I want to put my dirty clothes in the hamper in the morning; and when I get home at night, they folded and pressed and placed in their proper place. In that way I could have so few garments which would reduce consumerism.
This would almost inevitably be extremely wasteful; it's very inefficient to run any conceivable washing machine with almost nothing in it.
I think in that case the device that does this would include washing optimized for small loads. It wouldn't just dump a few pieces in your washer/dryer.
Like most things, there are economies of scale at play here. Energy use for one sock is not linearly scaled for 100 socks.
That's mainly because of the size of the washer/dryer. A scaled down w/d would be much more efficient for 1 set of clothes than putting 1 set of clothes in a normal w/d.
Maybe more efficient if it is able to lay out each piece for drying. Clotheslines are very energy efficient.
Maybe more efficient if it is able to lay out each piece for drying. Clotheslines are very energy efficient.
For #1, I have a dishwasher which is like a dish rack, cleaner, dryer all in one! Just don't put your dishes away after cleaning and you're done.
For #2, you can hire people to do it, probably cheaper, more reliable, more flexible and better than robots will be in forever. This'll also create or maintain jobs, and save you said hours a week (which you can use to work and make money to pay for the cleaner).
IMO some things don't need to be automated, and humanity can go back to being more social and giving work to other people instead of trying to automate it to avoid human contact.
For #2, you can hire people to do it, probably cheaper, more reliable, more flexible and better than robots will be in forever. This'll also create or maintain jobs, and save you said hours a week (which you can use to work and make money to pay for the cleaner).
IMO some things don't need to be automated, and humanity can go back to being more social and giving work to other people instead of trying to automate it to avoid human contact.
1. As said earlier: two dishwashers.
2. Have a walk-in closet next to toilet or other place when you change in to pajamas after a day. Make a few holes on the head level in the wall separating the closet from the toilet. One hole for one kind of clothing (i.e. 3: colors, whites, baby clothes). In closet under each hole place a basket with a hole near the bottom. Each basket is a laundry queue. Buy washer/drier combo (or two). Place it in your closet under baskets. Place a washing powder dispenser just above the machine's washing powder bay.
You know what I want? I never want to mow my lawn again.
I try really hard to burn it when it gets hot and dry, but the percentages aren't working out.
Failing that, I'd like to have a roomba that rakes my leaves.
I try really hard to burn it when it gets hot and dry, but the percentages aren't working out.
Failing that, I'd like to have a roomba that rakes my leaves.
Replace it with a rock garden or artificial grass. Or pay the neighbour's kid (or your own) $5 to have it done every week or so.
It's quite common to pave them here for that reason. Common enough that in some areas it's beginning to cause drainage issues; grass-covered ground is apparently better at draining water than paved.
A number of people have done dual dish drawer washing machines for #1. Basically you have two half height dishwashers in the drawer format. On has clean dishes the other has dirty. You move dishes from the clean side until you fill up the dirty side then you run it and it becomes the new clean side. Edge cases remain out of reach (if your kids only dirty butter knives and spoons for example).
If you have small children or people who work "dirty jobs" in the household then the clothes washing robot needs to be able to detect and pre-treat stains with something like Spray 'n Wash. Otherwise the clothes don't really get clean with just a normal washing machine cycle. Inspecting and spraying each item of clothing consumes a huge amount of manual labor in my family.
Sorting the clothes would be nice too. We have children and sorting all their clothes and our clothes also takes some time and work.
Regarding other robots I would still like a vacuuming robot but it would have to be able to move chairs and similar objects a bit to vacuum where they just stood. I would also like a robot that could cook meals.
Regarding other robots I would still like a vacuuming robot but it would have to be able to move chairs and similar objects a bit to vacuum where they just stood. I would also like a robot that could cook meals.
> Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.
Get two dishwashers (or a two-drawer dishwasher). When one is dirty, put it on, and use the clean dishes from the other. Continue rotating dishes between dishwashers, forever.
Can't help you with the clothes thing (though a washer-dryer gets you part of the way there).
Get two dishwashers (or a two-drawer dishwasher). When one is dirty, put it on, and use the clean dishes from the other. Continue rotating dishes between dishwashers, forever.
Can't help you with the clothes thing (though a washer-dryer gets you part of the way there).
> 2) Wash and dry my clothes, fold them and put them away completely automatically.
Add ironing, and that robot could replace most human manual labor.
So never going to happen. At least not before a washer-sized 2D printer that makes clothes. At $250/sqft, an average never-needed-again closet would save you ~$15K.
Hey Elon - I don't need a car or rocket!
Add ironing, and that robot could replace most human manual labor.
So never going to happen. At least not before a washer-sized 2D printer that makes clothes. At $250/sqft, an average never-needed-again closet would save you ~$15K.
Hey Elon - I don't need a car or rocket!
If your time is that valuable, just hire someone to come once a week for a couple hours to do those things. In your lifetime, it will always be cheaper than a robot. Plus a real human being will be more pleasant to converse with.
Alternatively, multitask and listen to the news or an audiobook while you do your household chores.
Alternatively, multitask and listen to the news or an audiobook while you do your household chores.
"1) Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically."
This is a mostly solved problem - get 2 (or 3) dishwashers. Only requires some occasional reshuffling of less often used things. Like 90% of what's in your dishwasher is what you use time and time again. Highly recommended.
This is a mostly solved problem - get 2 (or 3) dishwashers. Only requires some occasional reshuffling of less often used things. Like 90% of what's in your dishwasher is what you use time and time again. Highly recommended.
http://tuneofthetimes.blogspot.com/2010/02/i-dream-of-jetson...
Wrote about this exactly several years ago, nothing has changed really
Wrote about this exactly several years ago, nothing has changed really
It says something when it's easier to land a ten story rocket booster than fold laundry...
That probably isn't true; it's just that the laundry thing is still a way down Musk's priority list :)
On the contrary, tangled washing is probably close enough to knot topography to be super challenging to solve without applying sentient meat to the problem.
An easy hack: buy 2 dishwashers. Load one with dirty dishes until full and then turn on. When it is clean, tada! - this is now your cupboard. Load dishes into your other dishwasher until full, now repeat this process.
would you settle for a drip dry shelf over the sink? it solves the dry and put them away part and just leaves the washing part which can be made a lot easier by doing the following:
- before you leave anything in the sink, quickly rinse it if there is anything on it that will go hard
- washing with gloves on is easier since you can have the water boiling hot which means in turn does most of the work
- or install a double sink. leave things soak in 1 sink so most stuff will just fall off, then in most cases all you have left to do is rinse it
- if there is still some gunk left on them then one of those jet taps would help
- before you leave anything in the sink, quickly rinse it if there is anything on it that will go hard
- washing with gloves on is easier since you can have the water boiling hot which means in turn does most of the work
- or install a double sink. leave things soak in 1 sink so most stuff will just fall off, then in most cases all you have left to do is rinse it
- if there is still some gunk left on them then one of those jet taps would help
well,just list the things you do on a weekly basis for a family
- making meals - driving kids - laundry - grocery and other shopping - picking up - finances and planning
I think all of these are ripe for (more) disruption.
- making meals - driving kids - laundry - grocery and other shopping - picking up - finances and planning
I think all of these are ripe for (more) disruption.
Most of these things have long since been disrupted:
Making meals :- go to a cafe, been around for centuries, uber eats etc. Worst case, get frozen meals (some are really good) and bung them in the microwave.
Driving Kids :- Taxi, bus, chauffeur, again have been around for ages, auto drive cars are not that far away, but will you be willing to abandon your kids to the machine?
Grocery and other shopping:- Amazon, online shopping.
Picking up:- If you can't manage to put things away yourself, then get a maid or cleaner.
As somebody else posted, most of these automated devices don't seem to have got much further than they were in the tech shows of the late 70's, they just have more "AI" built in the seem to be designed to make you purchase from their vendor.
Making meals :- go to a cafe, been around for centuries, uber eats etc. Worst case, get frozen meals (some are really good) and bung them in the microwave.
Driving Kids :- Taxi, bus, chauffeur, again have been around for ages, auto drive cars are not that far away, but will you be willing to abandon your kids to the machine?
Grocery and other shopping:- Amazon, online shopping.
Picking up:- If you can't manage to put things away yourself, then get a maid or cleaner.
As somebody else posted, most of these automated devices don't seem to have got much further than they were in the tech shows of the late 70's, they just have more "AI" built in the seem to be designed to make you purchase from their vendor.
> Driving Kids :- Taxi, bus, chauffeur, again have been around for ages, auto drive cars are not that far away, but will you be willing to abandon your kids to the machine?
Are they willing to abandon kids to the machine?
iPhones, iPads, Nintendo's, dvd players, netflix?
What's one more "machine" taking care of kids?
Are they willing to abandon kids to the machine?
iPhones, iPads, Nintendo's, dvd players, netflix?
What's one more "machine" taking care of kids?
True. I was more considering the average helicopter parent allowing a machine to drive their kids to school or some such.
Hell... I would think those types (Helicopter) would be the first in line.
Think of it... self flying vehicles that control where your kids go.
That's right up there with iPhone tracking your kid.
Think of it... self flying vehicles that control where your kids go.
That's right up there with iPhone tracking your kid.
There is one exception - the robo-vacuum. It's good enough today to run 99% unattended (you still have to empty the dust bin by hand and clean hairs from its wheels). It does a more thorough job than a human already.
I’ve found the wireless vacuum (eg Dyson) to be even better: you just pull it out, vacuum, put it back. It’s more powerful than a robovac and, without cord fussing, incredibly low overhead.
Depends on the size of the floor. In my house it would take half an hour to do everything by hand, but just one minute to start the robovac.
I use a Xiaomi Mi which has more "smarts" than a Roomba.
I use a Xiaomi Mi which has more "smarts" than a Roomba.
We've had a Rumba for some time. In the early days it was used regularly, now almost never. I don't know why, but I find that 5 minutes with a manual vacuum achieves a far better result than watching the Rumba bash it's way around the room for 30 minutes or more.
How about a dishwasher that holds all your dishes, and the dishes just stay in there? Eliminate the step of putting them in cabinets.
I know there's a mental gap to cross here, but seriously - just get another human being to do that for you.
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a couple years ago, the big thing at events was everyone build a phone app. couple years before that it was a website. now its robots/drones. you can probably insert ML in there somewhere.
its just the natural progression of things.
its just the natural progression of things.
And: 3) Clean my house automatically every day or so.
For #1 why not just use a dishwasher and keep the dishes in there?
If that's not acceptable, what about a dishwasher designed for keeping dishes in there?
If that's not acceptable, what about a dishwasher designed for keeping dishes in there?
based on my use, at least one third of the dishes vary between each use of the dishwasher, and getting stuff out is a hassle, it is very low and the dishes are relatively packed in.
Based on your suggestion I suppose an ideal design would be to put all the dishes back at the end of the day into their respective cabinets and then the cabinets (high-tech dishwasher) wash and dry them during the night.
Based on your suggestion I suppose an ideal design would be to put all the dishes back at the end of the day into their respective cabinets and then the cabinets (high-tech dishwasher) wash and dry them during the night.
Throw out most of your clothes and dishes. Not necessary.
our most probable future :D
but the prices of clothes & dishes needs to keep going down to be feasible... and ideally easy to recycle
but the prices of clothes & dishes needs to keep going down to be feasible... and ideally easy to recycle
Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/1sWnMDcCMQY?t=2m42s
I understand and agree with these desires. However, getting fewer and simpler clothes can near solve the second problem for much cheaper.
Similarly, eating out comes close to solving the first problem. Will be very cost competitive with robots for the same in the foreseeable future.
To the point that solving this problem will require more behavior change from us than we're likely to realize.
Similarly, eating out comes close to solving the first problem. Will be very cost competitive with robots for the same in the foreseeable future.
To the point that solving this problem will require more behavior change from us than we're likely to realize.
>I understand and agree with these desires. However, getting fewer and simpler clothes can near solve the second problem for much cheaper.
Good luck convincing most people to wear t-shirts and jeans every day, let alone a small number of them. No thanks.
Good luck convincing most people to wear t-shirts and jeans every day, let alone a small number of them. No thanks.
There's a problem with t-shirt and jeans every day? Nobody told me... ;-)
You know some people have to wear uniforms, right?
You know some people have occupations where you get really dirty, right?
You know some people have to "dress to impress" for work, right?
Not everyone can move to "simple" clothes so easily, including most people who are employed.
You know some people have occupations where you get really dirty, right?
You know some people have to "dress to impress" for work, right?
Not everyone can move to "simple" clothes so easily, including most people who are employed.
None of this really contradicts my points. Reduce the time spent cleaning by reducing the amount of time you spend cleaning. This could mean cleaning more often, but you will still spend less time doing it.
And... none of the people you mentioned are likely to benefit from the first several waves of robots cleaning outfits. Which was what I had on my mind.
That is, if you are a person that feels they need help cleaning their clothes, you are likely not a person that will benefit from the first robotic solutions. Unless, of course, you could already benefit from the current outsourcing techniques for the job. And it will be a while before those are beaten in price.
I say this as someone that has grown to love our robotic vacuum. Things is awesome. Probably still cheaper and more effective to just sweep and vacuum manually.
And... none of the people you mentioned are likely to benefit from the first several waves of robots cleaning outfits. Which was what I had on my mind.
That is, if you are a person that feels they need help cleaning their clothes, you are likely not a person that will benefit from the first robotic solutions. Unless, of course, you could already benefit from the current outsourcing techniques for the job. And it will be a while before those are beaten in price.
I say this as someone that has grown to love our robotic vacuum. Things is awesome. Probably still cheaper and more effective to just sweep and vacuum manually.
Eating out every night takes a lot of time and is not cost-effective for a huge percentage of the population.
The point I didn't really make was that robots for personal dishes is not likely to be cheap anytime soon. That is, my emphasis was supposed to be the alternatives being advantaged for the foreseeable future. Not that someone has to change their behavior.
A weird aspect of CES is that it's THE trade show that blows up outside the US on developing countries. News programs send people to report on what is absolutely certainly the future and coming up if they were to be believed. I've always found it surprising, as no true disruptors are revealed there, and every year it seems to get worse as the article notes.
We are talking about machines but during my last trip to Japan I’ve been blown away by the domotic present in the appartment I rented. There was a self-filling bathtube that I could program directly from the kitchen.
Is there any « bathtube auto-fill/alexa » product in the US? I never been able to find something like that. I’d like to be able to ask alexa to prepare my bath while I’m cooking.
Is there any « bathtube auto-fill/alexa » product in the US? I never been able to find something like that. I’d like to be able to ask alexa to prepare my bath while I’m cooking.
Self fill bathtub? That's a good one. I have a "smart" self-adjusting faucet that can be set directly in temperature.
... but I can't live without a washlet (electronic bidet/toilet). I have come to the conclusion that dry manual wiping is out for me, because in the end it just smears a thin film of shit all over. The washlet is nice - the seat is warmed, water is warmed and it dries me "hands free". It's an amazing yet unassuming robot.
... but I can't live without a washlet (electronic bidet/toilet). I have come to the conclusion that dry manual wiping is out for me, because in the end it just smears a thin film of shit all over. The washlet is nice - the seat is warmed, water is warmed and it dries me "hands free". It's an amazing yet unassuming robot.
“The feeling of having a genuinely clean butt gives you the confidence you need to go crush it in the boardroom.”
I will definitely invest in a washlet.
Any link for this smart faucet?
Any link for this smart faucet?
yes, something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Teka-Pro-Thermostat-Bathtub-Faucet-...
Is there any « bathtube auto-fill/alexa » product in the US?
Kohler was showing one at CES that seemed to be available (or available soon).
Kohler was showing one at CES that seemed to be available (or available soon).
I've seen bathtub auto fillers before, but not ones that you could control from the kitchen.
They're a pretty simple concept, either have a flowmeter on the faucet, or have a water level meter to detect how high the water level is, and turn the faucet off after a certain volume.
They're a pretty simple concept, either have a flowmeter on the faucet, or have a water level meter to detect how high the water level is, and turn the faucet off after a certain volume.
I read that as "either have a flamethrower on the faucet..." and was trying to figure out why heating the water locally made sense and why the alternative was a level meter.
Sounds like a way to scald someone with a hack.
Edit: There was a self-filling bathtube that I could program directly from the kitchen.
How much do you want to bet that a US version would be networked, probably smartphone integrated?
Edit: There was a self-filling bathtube that I could program directly from the kitchen.
How much do you want to bet that a US version would be networked, probably smartphone integrated?
it's not IOT.
How do you know? There needs to be some kind of connection for remote programmability. The default choice is likely something connected to the (W)LAN. From there, it's only one misconfigured firewall and a default password away from being hacked over the internet.
They're not. They've been around longer than WiFi. It's a simple wired connection to the control panel in the tub that's installed as a single unit.
It let's you control things like temp, intercom to the kitchen and so forth. Automatic Bath one of my favorite things about living in Japan, even more so than the heated toilet seat.
It let's you control things like temp, intercom to the kitchen and so forth. Automatic Bath one of my favorite things about living in Japan, even more so than the heated toilet seat.
I really wish we had decided on Intranet of Things. I don't know how anyone thought connecting to outside services to manage your house was a good idea. Your Own House as a Service, YOHAS. Rolls off the tongue.
Oooh... I stand corrected then. It would certainly make a ton of sense for a bathing culture like Japan, but for showers... eh. Heated seat with bidet and air though? Oh hell yes please.
I used to work in the event services industry and CES no longer needs to exist.
All of the major companies can hold their own press events and promote their products. Why buy an exhibitor booth at CES when you could take the same money and DIY. Apple , Google and Microsoft get this. Also, things like Kickstarter do the same. In a few years CES , E3 won't really exist anymore they are already dead.
All of the major companies can hold their own press events and promote their products. Why buy an exhibitor booth at CES when you could take the same money and DIY. Apple , Google and Microsoft get this. Also, things like Kickstarter do the same. In a few years CES , E3 won't really exist anymore they are already dead.
CES is for brand recognition. There are thousands of products that come into existence and disappear every year. Having to find the website for all of them would never happen. Even aggregators like this site are going to miss most of them. Walking the floors of the convention is a great way to get a huge infodump on what people are planning to sell.
I agree that a lot of what goes on there is a stupendous waste of money, but you are guaranteed to see dozens of products that you've never heard about when you walk the show floor.
The other reason people set up booths there is that they're looking for distribution partners and investors. It's a long shot, but it's better than every distributor and every investor getting a call from every company that wants to make/sell products in the US. This is why you see a ton of Chinese companies with tiny booths with names like Shenzen Happy Fun Heavy Industries just waiting for someone with an investor badge to walk by and make an offer to sell their phone cases and USB cables.
I agree that a lot of what goes on there is a stupendous waste of money, but you are guaranteed to see dozens of products that you've never heard about when you walk the show floor.
The other reason people set up booths there is that they're looking for distribution partners and investors. It's a long shot, but it's better than every distributor and every investor getting a call from every company that wants to make/sell products in the US. This is why you see a ton of Chinese companies with tiny booths with names like Shenzen Happy Fun Heavy Industries just waiting for someone with an investor badge to walk by and make an offer to sell their phone cases and USB cables.
I think that Linus Tech tips could singlehandedly eliminate CES.
CES and E3 exist because many people, especially the press, are willing to go.
Apple, Google, and Microsoft have a big enough draw that people (the press) will pay to go see what they provide. Smaller, less-dominant companies don't inspire the same level of desire. What good is saving money by providing your own show if nobody comes?
Apple, Google, and Microsoft have a big enough draw that people (the press) will pay to go see what they provide. Smaller, less-dominant companies don't inspire the same level of desire. What good is saving money by providing your own show if nobody comes?
What about the independents and the start-ups? No great options exist for them.
YouTube, Reddit, HN, all kinds of tech blogs.
Tech blogs, and internet media in general, serve a fundamentally different product than a trade show, with much lower information bandwidth.
It's pretty handy for connecting with other companies, especially as a startup. I was there this year, helping out with someone else's booth, and I'd say the primary value was the number of manufacturing / marketing / partnership contacts that were able to be made by having a booth.
I'm not sure how many people we talked to will end up being buyers, but I'm pretty sure that we met people who will help the company succeed.
As a side note, I found the startup area so much more interesting than the main halls. Who cares about seeing a TV that's slightly larger than your last one, when you can learn about a treadmill that's thin and light enough to tuck between the couch and the wall, or a pet food feeder that detects which pet to feed based on their vet microchips?
I'm not sure how many people we talked to will end up being buyers, but I'm pretty sure that we met people who will help the company succeed.
As a side note, I found the startup area so much more interesting than the main halls. Who cares about seeing a TV that's slightly larger than your last one, when you can learn about a treadmill that's thin and light enough to tuck between the couch and the wall, or a pet food feeder that detects which pet to feed based on their vet microchips?
My understanding is CES is a big deal for retail buyers.
I have never been to and didn't follow CES, but the little I learned about this one just made me depressed about our civilisational priorities: an unimaginably gargantuan space of Chinese electronic junk largely devoted to servicing the whims of pampered and effete digiratti, all of which will be obsolete, discarded and piling up in landfills a mere few years after it's taken to market. I got about 30 seconds into the news clip about the highlights and had to turn it off.
I feel this cycle of hype of several technologies (not just robots) has a larger-than-ever component of the MBA culture wherein pseudo-understanding and handwaving are rewarded. It has the same smell as reading crackpot imaginings about "the body electric" from the 19th century or "quantum neurology" from the 20th.
CES 1982: full of useless computers that don't do much of anything, have little to no software available for them, very expensive. (should not be taken literally, the point however is obvious)
Check back in about 5 to 7 years.
Check back in about 5 to 7 years.
> A giant banner in the main hallway read “A better life. A better world.” But all I could think of is how much I wanted to be back home in the real world where, even if it’s primitive, most technology just works.
To be fair, most real world tech doesn’t just work either.
To be fair, most real world tech doesn’t just work either.
Is it really that surprising that a convention whose whole focus is new and experimental technology would have lots of things that don't work very well?
Don’t care! It’s the golden age of tvs! Oleds are a technology that’s actually living up to the hype. I have an lg wallpaper tv and you can roll it up! The new ones look even more flexible. One even rolls up into a box.
Robots will catch up. The future of TVs is now!
Robots will catch up. The future of TVs is now!
Amazing, I always wanted to roll up my TV.
Can’t tell if you are joking or not, but when I unboxed my tv and was able to hold it up with one hand, easily and bend and twist it...pretty f’ing cool. It attaches to the wall with clips and magnets.
Rolling it up is great for some people. My wife isn’t a huge fan of giant TVs taking up space. The less than a pencil thickness of the lg tv makes it cooler than most, but being able to put it away or move it so easily would be cool.
They are only going to get more flexible. Soon you will have displays on everything and walls that double as TVs.
The lg wallpaper tv is my favorite piece of tech I’ve ever owned...unless you go back to the NES/SNES!
Rolling it up is great for some people. My wife isn’t a huge fan of giant TVs taking up space. The less than a pencil thickness of the lg tv makes it cooler than most, but being able to put it away or move it so easily would be cool.
They are only going to get more flexible. Soon you will have displays on everything and walls that double as TVs.
The lg wallpaper tv is my favorite piece of tech I’ve ever owned...unless you go back to the NES/SNES!
I can't work out if you're joking.
I want it too and I'm not joking. I don't want to 'waste' a whole wall for a large TV, but if I could hang a rolled up TV on a book case and only pull it out when I needed it I would love that.
That being said I'm not expecting to see one at a price I'd want to pay in the next 15 years
That being said I'm not expecting to see one at a price I'd want to pay in the next 15 years
I don’t know what you can afford, but oleds have come down 30-40% just since I purchased mine. Won’t take 15 years I don’t think.
The ‘standard’ oleds (which all look amazing) are going to the standard soon. The quality of the picture, blacks especially, is instantly noticeable.
The ‘standard’ oleds (which all look amazing) are going to the standard soon. The quality of the picture, blacks especially, is instantly noticeable.
Just out of curiosity, what do you expect to be able to use the wall for when it's not covered by the TV?
Roll-up posters hung somewhere else that roll out to cover the same area?
Roll-up posters hung somewhere else that roll out to cover the same area?
what do you expect to be able to use the wall for when it's not covered by the TV?
A bookshelf. I have a bookshelf on the wall doing what bookshelves do. And then I'll hang the TV 'roll' in front of one of the shelves and pull it down in front of the bookshelf when I want to use it.
A bookshelf. I have a bookshelf on the wall doing what bookshelves do. And then I'll hang the TV 'roll' in front of one of the shelves and pull it down in front of the bookshelf when I want to use it.
You could do that with a projector, too, probably very well indeed for the cost of a similarly sized OLED display that rolls up like a projection screen. (Wouldn't be surprised if that OLED roll has a pretty limited lifespan, too, between all that physical stress and the way OLEDs degrade anyway.)
I want my OLED monitors. I've been waiting for years for an OLED monitor, it's my dream. The closest thing is VA+Quantum Dot monitors, but they just aren't the same.
What do you want it for? I recently got an OLED TV which I'm now using as a monitor for games and video, and it's brilliant (although you might think otherwise if you have extraordinary latency demands). I also find the large size of the display more immersive than a conventional monitor.
I still use an LCD for static content (programming; web browsing; etc.) as I want to avoid burn in, but I don't really care about high contrast and wide colour gamut in that use case.
I still use an LCD for static content (programming; web browsing; etc.) as I want to avoid burn in, but I don't really care about high contrast and wide colour gamut in that use case.
I would love an affordable eInk monitor. A lot of nights I want to do textual work on my computer (coding or writing), but my eyes are so done with the brightness.
I agree completely. This article suggests a few reasons why CES was so disappointing in regards monitor/laptop OLED: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/oled-laptops-and-mon...
Thank goodness for ASUS offering us a glimmer of hope with their portable OLED monitor.
Thank goodness for ASUS offering us a glimmer of hope with their portable OLED monitor.
Not sure if I want a OLED monitor with current OLED technology for everyday use. All current OLED phone displays will have (slight) burn in after 1-2 years and I am pretty sure the same would happen on a monitor which you use daily for 8-10 hours.
Heatworks made this $300 wonder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4UgIijI0Z0 I am down. Sad to see more hype than substance re:robots.
Too small, completely useless.
I don't need a dishwasher to wash a couple of glasses and cutlery. Those take 2 seconds to do by hand.
I need a dishwasher because 20 people were just over and I don't want to be up all night washing. Or we just made an intense meal that needed lots of equipment and I don't want to wash 10 bowls, 3 knives, 4 spoons, a spatula, and a cutting board.
I don't need a dishwasher to wash a couple of glasses and cutlery. Those take 2 seconds to do by hand.
I need a dishwasher because 20 people were just over and I don't want to be up all night washing. Or we just made an intense meal that needed lots of equipment and I don't want to wash 10 bowls, 3 knives, 4 spoons, a spatula, and a cutting board.
Why on earth does it need to be internet connected?!
I was just thinking about something like this from the above comments. It reminds me of the cup washers they use at bars that moves cups under hot water and then to a place to dry. Both would be an interesting piece in a home kitchen.
This article and many comments here completely misses the bigger picture.
Robots is only one way for AI to be expressed. To expect us to be much further ahead with robots shows how wrong most discussions about robots are.
In most industrial settings, robots is the standard and works just fine, in an increasing number of warehouses and other semi controlled environments it's gaining popularity.
Consumner robots ai needs to be much more generalized for them to feel "smart" as they are in much less predictable environments.
To expect consumer robots to be much further than they are makes no sense. Thats not where the primary progress is made just yet and no one maybe besides media and a few opportunistic companies are under that illusion.
Robots is only one way for AI to be expressed. To expect us to be much further ahead with robots shows how wrong most discussions about robots are.
In most industrial settings, robots is the standard and works just fine, in an increasing number of warehouses and other semi controlled environments it's gaining popularity.
Consumner robots ai needs to be much more generalized for them to feel "smart" as they are in much less predictable environments.
To expect consumer robots to be much further than they are makes no sense. Thats not where the primary progress is made just yet and no one maybe besides media and a few opportunistic companies are under that illusion.
The next 20 years will be a constant stream of half broken robots and ai systems. At least until we either get them to actually work or we figure out how bad they are and go back to using people again.
It will be like setting up video conferencing, except for everything.
Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.
Your fridge will put itself in eco mode because it thinks you're on vacation from misreading your calendar and spoils all your food.
Your front door will forget who you are after you get a haircut and lock you out.
After an automatic system upgrade your shower will no longer produce hot water, because a bug results in the system using Celsius instead of Fahrenheit. Your bug report is ignored for a week and after a dozen people complain you get in an argument with the engineer about whether the place you live in actually exists.
Wait. Who am I kidding... You won't be able to talk to an engineer. All support will be automated and it will be impossible to get the robot to understand your complaint. You'll just have to replace it. I suspect you're going to have to replace things a lot.
On the bright side it will probably be really cheap though.
And then there will be all the outages.
One of these days Uber is going to accidentally send all drivers in a big city to a single location. It'll be the great ai outage of 2018, the first of soon to be monthly occurrences of bizarre system failures we can't begin to imagine.
I feel like someone should write a pg wodehouseesque novel about the "smart" future.
It will be like setting up video conferencing, except for everything.
Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.
Your fridge will put itself in eco mode because it thinks you're on vacation from misreading your calendar and spoils all your food.
Your front door will forget who you are after you get a haircut and lock you out.
After an automatic system upgrade your shower will no longer produce hot water, because a bug results in the system using Celsius instead of Fahrenheit. Your bug report is ignored for a week and after a dozen people complain you get in an argument with the engineer about whether the place you live in actually exists.
Wait. Who am I kidding... You won't be able to talk to an engineer. All support will be automated and it will be impossible to get the robot to understand your complaint. You'll just have to replace it. I suspect you're going to have to replace things a lot.
On the bright side it will probably be really cheap though.
And then there will be all the outages.
One of these days Uber is going to accidentally send all drivers in a big city to a single location. It'll be the great ai outage of 2018, the first of soon to be monthly occurrences of bizarre system failures we can't begin to imagine.
I feel like someone should write a pg wodehouseesque novel about the "smart" future.
> Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.
I do get the implication you're going for, but GPS actually ignores leap seconds for this reason. The time scale on the GPS system was fixed when it was deployed, and is 18 seconds ahead of UTC because it does not account for leap seconds.
Sometimes we design horrid systems that are harder to use than analog counterparts. Sometimes, our systems work because they required a lot of thought to go into them. AI hell is more likely to be a problem of decision trees than it is going to be anything to do with sensor disruption or time offsets.
I do get the implication you're going for, but GPS actually ignores leap seconds for this reason. The time scale on the GPS system was fixed when it was deployed, and is 18 seconds ahead of UTC because it does not account for leap seconds.
Sometimes we design horrid systems that are harder to use than analog counterparts. Sometimes, our systems work because they required a lot of thought to go into them. AI hell is more likely to be a problem of decision trees than it is going to be anything to do with sensor disruption or time offsets.
Also GPS, now a part of all GNSS, is not an as essential system for fully automated driving, as pretty much all the other sensors (See also GNSS-denied navigation research).
If your navigation system didn't fail so far, it won't in the future. Navigation is the solved part.
If your navigation system didn't fail so far, it won't in the future. Navigation is the solved part.
wrong. The difference between GPS and UTC is not fixed. (you might have confused it with the difference between TAI-10 and GPS that is constant)
Here's how to get UTC time from GPS time using Python https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33415475/how-to-get-curr...
Here's how to get UTC time from GPS time using Python https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33415475/how-to-get-curr...
I wonder why the fact is downvoted? It is easy to check that the statement is true, just click the link, run the code, see the results, read the authoritative sources linked there for additional information.
Because the GPS time scale is fixed. UTC drifts by leap seconds, GPS ignores them. I'm not sure what the point of the stackoverflow link is, because it certainly says as much itself. Yes, I understand that additional leap seconds are added as time goes on, which makes the difference between GPS and UTC larger as the years go by. But this doesn't mean that the GPS time scale isn't fixed.
My comment says explicitly that the difference the difference is not fixed. Even your comment aknowledges it (the difference increases with each intercalary leap second).
It is already here. Two days ago our HVAC controller apparently lost contact with one of the sensors (as technician told me) and we nearly froze at night (-10 C outside) only to came back later to a desert (+35 C in most rooms).
I just yanked the thing out and adjusted all valves by hand. Fixing was $200. Now i'm thinking about replacing it with Arduino and simple PID controllers...
I just yanked the thing out and adjusted all valves by hand. Fixing was $200. Now i'm thinking about replacing it with Arduino and simple PID controllers...
Dont try and replace it with an arduino unless you want many more similar mishaps.
But yes-- never buy an appliance touted as "smart". Furnaces should always be wired.
But yes-- never buy an appliance touted as "smart". Furnaces should always be wired.
I live in the Northeast US and I'd never get a Nest. The risk associated with an additional heating system failure mode in the winter just isn't worth it.
For traditional HVAC, because of the lag and few degree temp variance, you really only need the P part of a PID controller. But the same would happen of any controller. If the sensor goes bad it isn't going to work. Also, heat pump may require more sophisticated control.
Oh, don't forget they all will spy on you and send that back to the company.
> Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to
> account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.
It's reasonable to require a GPS to navigate, but not for moment-to-moment driving, e.g. knowing which lane you're in. Otherwise it won't work in tunnels.
Or cities, or elevated roads.
Tall buildings can occlude GPS satellites. And current driving software decides I’ve gotten on the freeway, with no onramp, going the wrong way mind you, when I’m actually under it
Tall buildings can occlude GPS satellites. And current driving software decides I’ve gotten on the freeway, with no onramp, going the wrong way mind you, when I’m actually under it
By that measure a lot of human drivers aren't autonomous anymore.
Imagine yourself being transported to some unknown town blindfolded. Then blindfold is taken of and you are asked to drive around. You'd be still able to do that, just not drive to the particular destination. Or maybe you would be even able to do the latter due to the more or less naming of the streets.
How would you propose it orients itself after starting up? Saved last location?
Sibling comment makes the correct distinction between driving and navigating. I do not expect self-driving car to be able to navigate without GPS, but it should not be required for driving around.
However I'd say many humans would still be able to successfully navigate using road signs for directions.
"Ending is better than mending".
It was written way way back.
It was written way way back.
I would be OK with a narrative shift that hypes kiss devices, maybe respecting the right to repair too.
Love the Simone Giertz shout-out.
And yes, as a father of 3 who spends half his weekend on laundry, I would pay a lot for a really functional laundribot.
And yes, as a father of 3 who spends half his weekend on laundry, I would pay a lot for a really functional laundribot.
Why not pay a maid?
There are a lot of solutions looking for problems nowadays.
This is what you get when you can borrow money for zero or negative interest rates for ten years, and every "investment" looks like gold. Thanks Uncles Bernanke/Draghi/Kuroda.
Well TRULY life transforming tech doesn't happen all that often. Oh sure the tech companies are going to say that 2018 TVs and smartphones are so disruptive from last year...
I get the sentiment, but I have faith. The RAND computer was probably also quite irrelevant for the household at its time.[1]
[1]: https://bwithers.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/rand_home_compu...
[1]: https://bwithers.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/rand_home_compu...
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What was your favorite product at CES ?
One thing I'd thought about for years finally appeared at CES. They had a mister you attach to the outside unit of your heat pump. It included the deionizer/water softener to prevent the minerals from building up on your A/C.
But then the company ruined it by selling it only as a $100/year service.
But then the company ruined it by selling it only as a $100/year service.
I bought a pair of those several years ago. It worked for about a year and then broke down. I tried to sell the remaining unit for 90% off on craigslist, and there were no takers. It was the kickstarter version 1.0 of this:
http://mistbox.com/
http://mistbox.com/
- 8K TV with HDR going to 10000 nits. Where bright objects actually do look bright.
- The new LG Gram ultralight laptop.
- On-screen fingerprint scanner.
- Intel's voxel tech, but that's a very expensive system.
- Pretty much all of NVidia's machine learning tech.
- The dual-perspective projector system, very clever.
- The new LG Gram ultralight laptop.
- On-screen fingerprint scanner.
- Intel's voxel tech, but that's a very expensive system.
- Pretty much all of NVidia's machine learning tech.
- The dual-perspective projector system, very clever.
> On-screen fingerprint scanner.
From all the stuff I saw on CES this is the only thing which I _really_ want.
From all the stuff I saw on CES this is the only thing which I _really_ want.
Apparently it uses IR and is easily fooled. I think Android manufacturers have it right by putting the scanner on the back or side. We can keep our good capacitive fingerprint sensors and still get bezelless displays.
I wonder how far off a transparent digitizer is that can make out fingerprints?
I wonder how far off a transparent digitizer is that can make out fingerprints?
Any that worked when the power went out.
We are still improving flat panel displays and making smartphones over smart. It feels like there is atleast a decade for AI, Machine learning, NLP, AR/VR to come into mainstream and do some meaningful stuff for mankind.
Robotic technology is slowly making its way from more structured environments to less structured ones. Most of the work in factories is now done by robots. The invasion of warehouses is underway (and I'm helping with that). Probably you'll be seeing robots stocking shelves in retail. And folding clothes is substantially harder than stocking shelves and you, the consumer, aren't willing to pay nearly as much for a robot to fold your clothes as a store is for a robot because the amount of labor being replaced is much smaller. So it'll be a while.
[deleted]
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Didn’t we have that topic already?
http://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-tech-startups-r...
I dont like the article. First of all the simone giertz intro was pretty cringey. Second of all you just wrote about yourself being a dick to a bunch of people.
Anyone here go to CES who can corroborate the linked story?
That stupid laundry folding robot was there. They had a "show" every 15 minutes or so where they would pick a person from the audience to stuff clothes into the machine and have them not folded (the demo machine only had the loader).
I didn't see the crashed companion robots. They were working when I walked by, but I didn't pay them much mind because I thought they were stupid. There were also a number of advertising robots which show up every year. They have screens for heads/chests and don't do much of anything useful. The new addition this year was a French model that was built like a Heroin Chic Supermodel instead of the superdeformed look that most of the Japanese companies opt for.
IMHO, Google's voice stuff was more common than Alexa this year. It actually got annoying to hear someone say "hey Google" for the millionth time. Even the goddamn Monorail was saying it.
I didn't see the crashed companion robots. They were working when I walked by, but I didn't pay them much mind because I thought they were stupid. There were also a number of advertising robots which show up every year. They have screens for heads/chests and don't do much of anything useful. The new addition this year was a French model that was built like a Heroin Chic Supermodel instead of the superdeformed look that most of the Japanese companies opt for.
IMHO, Google's voice stuff was more common than Alexa this year. It actually got annoying to hear someone say "hey Google" for the millionth time. Even the goddamn Monorail was saying it.
The companion robots were there last year too (in Sands IIRC). They were also working when I passed them .. singing a creepy old McDonald had a farm. I spoke to a rep and she said kids can get rough with these things so they are targeting seniors. Yeah.. I dunno about this one.
Cruzr was a big robot from a Shenzen company. I really liked it. I have seen Jibo in action .. the Cruzr I saw had a personality that surpised me!
I thought there was another laundry robot that won a prize. I went to a "demo time" but it wasn't a demo .. it was just a talk. They had a video from inside the robot and they were obscuring things. My personal opinion but I was very annoyed at the lack of demo (so were others) and felt they might be hiding something.
The table tennis robot was pretty awesome and so was the dobot magician. I could hardly believe that the same arm was used as a 3d printer, a lazer engraver and a paint brush.
Some of the VR stuff I saw was disappointing. The pimax guys were running the Blu demo .. what a horrible demo to show case their tech. I couldn't tell a difference between it and my oculus. I tried the HTC vive pro at the Intel booth and it was decent (I was able to clearly read text). But what blew me away was the Sansar VR demo.
I was stupid and skipped the Intel wireless headset demo .. kicking myself over it. Saw a bunch of engineering demos that were very cool.
Cruzr was a big robot from a Shenzen company. I really liked it. I have seen Jibo in action .. the Cruzr I saw had a personality that surpised me!
I thought there was another laundry robot that won a prize. I went to a "demo time" but it wasn't a demo .. it was just a talk. They had a video from inside the robot and they were obscuring things. My personal opinion but I was very annoyed at the lack of demo (so were others) and felt they might be hiding something.
The table tennis robot was pretty awesome and so was the dobot magician. I could hardly believe that the same arm was used as a 3d printer, a lazer engraver and a paint brush.
Some of the VR stuff I saw was disappointing. The pimax guys were running the Blu demo .. what a horrible demo to show case their tech. I couldn't tell a difference between it and my oculus. I tried the HTC vive pro at the Intel booth and it was decent (I was able to clearly read text). But what blew me away was the Sansar VR demo.
I was stupid and skipped the Intel wireless headset demo .. kicking myself over it. Saw a bunch of engineering demos that were very cool.
That table tennis robot looked like it cost a million bucks.
I will say that VR was kind of absent last year and was absolutely everywhere this year. It still feels like we need a couple of years before the VR stuff is fully baked though.
I will say that VR was kind of absent last year and was absolutely everywhere this year. It still feels like we need a couple of years before the VR stuff is fully baked though.
VR is very much here and functional.. I've been playing a few hours a week for the last year. There are certainly less AAA games than the main platforms (which is expected due to the economics of having <5% of the install base), but the ones they do have blow my hair back. One of my favorite things to do with visitors is strap them in and hear them rave when it's better than they expected.. which it always is.
Haha ... or more than a million!!
One thing I like about CES are the frank conversations with engineers. This year, I reached out to a few people. Had a very nice conversation with Karl Guttag (he has an optics blog http://www.kguttag.com/). I'm a newb in this area but had burning questions for a while .. he very patiently explained optics 101 and some of the implications. Very nice guy in person.
I also spoke to/saw engineering demos at the TI booth in LVCC, AMD and ARM booths at the Venetian/Sands, NXP and Qualcomm at LVCC. They have some private demos that are by appt only but usually let you in if you ask politely. I just went up and said I would like to know more about X or Y. Is there an engineer who can help me?
I also missed Kopin and Vuzix. Time was short and I could not find them :/
One thing I like about CES are the frank conversations with engineers. This year, I reached out to a few people. Had a very nice conversation with Karl Guttag (he has an optics blog http://www.kguttag.com/). I'm a newb in this area but had burning questions for a while .. he very patiently explained optics 101 and some of the implications. Very nice guy in person.
I also spoke to/saw engineering demos at the TI booth in LVCC, AMD and ARM booths at the Venetian/Sands, NXP and Qualcomm at LVCC. They have some private demos that are by appt only but usually let you in if you ask politely. I just went up and said I would like to know more about X or Y. Is there an engineer who can help me?
I also missed Kopin and Vuzix. Time was short and I could not find them :/
I couldn't doubt it after watching Sophia the robot's interview: https://www.facebook.com/io9.com/videos/10156086364533967/?s...
CES is like this every year.
Still in the era of the sharper image. Gimmicky tech with rush-to-market sensationalism.
The pitch deck for the investors must be all drawing boards then
CES is a dying trade show, its not worth much of anything of relevance these days.
This folding robot was at least more impressive in person.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/10/16865506/laundroid-laundr...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/10/16865506/laundroid-laundr...
That has real promise. Sounds like they just need brighter lights or a variable high contrast background to the sensors.
1) Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.
2) Wash and dry my clothes, fold them and put them away completely automatically.
These two things would save me hours of work per week. FoldiMate simply isn't even close to being good enough, but I'd be willing to spend about that much for a robot that could do #2.
I can vacuum my floor by myself and greet people at the door, thank you. I have no use for drones, or bipedal robots, or some kind of other walking robot at all. Alexa and similar provide nothing to me that I've been able to ascertain.
I wouldn't mind some kind of thing that can hold stuff and follow me around (and up and down stairs) on occasion, but that suitcase isn't going to do it.
Anybody who can crack either #1 or #2 is going to break the robotics industry wide open.