Young Japanese are surprisingly content(economist.com)
economist.com
Young Japanese are surprisingly content
https://www.economist.com/news/asia/21737071-they-are-less-so-when-they-think-about-future-young-japanese-are-surprisingly-content
108 comments
I don't know about Japan, but even in sunbaked places like LA, I can tell there's a ton of nihilism going on and spreading. Most of the money people make goes to rent, most jobs are BS and people know this deep down, the only way to "move up" these days is to move around frequently, and authority throws up a lot of roadblocks to discourage taking initiative. People act "content", but the majority don't feel particularly good about their situation. Our parents owned homes by my generation's age; very few of us own homes, and while we also don't have the same drive to keep up with the Joneses, there's still an undercurrent of resentment to the previous generation that tells us to "pound the pavement" without a clue as to how the new economy treats young people.
Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think about the world, and over half of them will say the world's going to shit in one way or another. I know people on both sides of the political spectrum that will say that. This isn't a good sign for society.
Granted, I am not divorced from this phenomenon. There is a lot of things that my parents' generation did that I don't do because they seem pointless. I'm not in a relationship, hence not married, no kids, I don't intend on owning a house with a white picket fence(or any house), I don't have two cars, I don't go on vacation after vacation, I don't "pound the pavement", etc. All because I find these things to be "meh", having a low ROI in general.
Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think about the world, and over half of them will say the world's going to shit in one way or another. I know people on both sides of the political spectrum that will say that. This isn't a good sign for society.
Granted, I am not divorced from this phenomenon. There is a lot of things that my parents' generation did that I don't do because they seem pointless. I'm not in a relationship, hence not married, no kids, I don't intend on owning a house with a white picket fence(or any house), I don't have two cars, I don't go on vacation after vacation, I don't "pound the pavement", etc. All because I find these things to be "meh", having a low ROI in general.
> "Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think about the world, and over half of them will say the world's going to shit in one way or another. I know people on both sides of the political spectrum that will say that. This isn't a good sign for society."
Do you know the song, "We didn't Start the Fire"? [1] Great song. It was released in 1989 - check out the lyrics. Even more interesting though is why the song was written. [2] Billy Joel was in a recording studio talking to a friend of John Lennon's son, who was 21 at the time. They had a conversation:
- Friend: It's a terrible time to be 21 [because the world's going to shit]
- Billy Joel: Yeah, I remember when I was 21 – I thought it was an awful time and we had Vietnam, and y'know, drug problems, and civil rights problems and everything seemed to be awful.
- Friend: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's different for you. You were a kid in the fifties and everybody knows that nothing happened in the fifties.
- Billy Joel: Wait a minute, didn't you hear of the Korean War or the Suez Canal Crisis?
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn%27t_Start_the_Fire#His...
Do you know the song, "We didn't Start the Fire"? [1] Great song. It was released in 1989 - check out the lyrics. Even more interesting though is why the song was written. [2] Billy Joel was in a recording studio talking to a friend of John Lennon's son, who was 21 at the time. They had a conversation:
- Friend: It's a terrible time to be 21 [because the world's going to shit]
- Billy Joel: Yeah, I remember when I was 21 – I thought it was an awful time and we had Vietnam, and y'know, drug problems, and civil rights problems and everything seemed to be awful.
- Friend: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's different for you. You were a kid in the fifties and everybody knows that nothing happened in the fifties.
- Billy Joel: Wait a minute, didn't you hear of the Korean War or the Suez Canal Crisis?
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn%27t_Start_the_Fire#His...
Yeah but climate change. That wasn't really an issue in the 80s. Now we all have to face that fact every day. And don't tell me there's always going to be something. Climate change is different. Not even remotely like anything humanity has faced before.
> Yeah but climate change. That wasn't really an issue in the 80s.
The foundational assumption of the modern scientific era (circa 1845) is that steam engine physics are a fundamental law of the universe. This guiding constraint is referred to as the "Laws of Thermodynamics"...
Today's scientists have better numbers. Dark energy and dark matter are their realization that something is wrong with 1845's understanding of the laws of nature.
The foundational assumption of the modern scientific era (circa 1845) is that steam engine physics are a fundamental law of the universe. This guiding constraint is referred to as the "Laws of Thermodynamics"...
Today's scientists have better numbers. Dark energy and dark matter are their realization that something is wrong with 1845's understanding of the laws of nature.
Absolute quality has probably gone up with increased efficiency for cheaper goods/tech.
However because scarce things are driven by pseudo auction dynamics that depends on wealth disparity rather than absolute cost young people quickly realize there is a ceiling.
Because they know they can't break that ceiling money may as well be spent on fun "now" things. Or hail Marys like Bitcoin. Because in many ways, scarce things are the only things of "true" value.
There is a parallel here to the disenfranchisement of the black community. You can live "comfortably" as long as you don't try to cross the moat. Energy that could've been spent improving quality for all is spent on digging the moat deeper.
However because scarce things are driven by pseudo auction dynamics that depends on wealth disparity rather than absolute cost young people quickly realize there is a ceiling.
Because they know they can't break that ceiling money may as well be spent on fun "now" things. Or hail Marys like Bitcoin. Because in many ways, scarce things are the only things of "true" value.
There is a parallel here to the disenfranchisement of the black community. You can live "comfortably" as long as you don't try to cross the moat. Energy that could've been spent improving quality for all is spent on digging the moat deeper.
I couldn't tell if you were talking about Japan, Europe, Canada, or the United States until your very last sentence, to be completely honest. I mean, yeah, the article is about Japanese youth and Japanese society, but I can draw a lot of parallels to my own life / acquaintances / colleagues / friends / family in the states.
I left Italy ten years ago, but I am still much in touch with the economy and the Counrty, and like you said, it could have been a way to describe Italy too, if not for the last sentence.
I haven't read the article yet, but this is why being "content" never seems that descriptive to me. It doesn't describe the situation in which one finds themselves, it's a statement on their reaction. Some people always fight, some people throw a fit like a child, etc. Some people are content.
It's essential to find a source of contentedness in life, but it can be easily manipulated to become complacency. Are these kids content about being content?
It's essential to find a source of contentedness in life, but it can be easily manipulated to become complacency. Are these kids content about being content?
Are we ever really content? Even if we were to increase our own happiness, we would still live in a world where, outside our walls, the suffering persists. Could we really, perfectly be happy, knowing?
If the answer is no, then to be happy, we must pass through hell with the rest of them.
If the answer is no, then to be happy, we must pass through hell with the rest of them.
This is why humans succeed. We're just never content, there's always something to complain about, to improve. It's always been that way, and it's always been the case that the vast majority left it at complaining and the actual change or progress was initiated by a few individuals.
There are fleeting states of being content that do actually happen. It's up to each person in their own way to find out (or ignore) that those states are just a product of their imagination.
What matters, is what you do when you've passed through hell and seen it for what it is.
What matters, is what you do when you've passed through hell and seen it for what it is.
My look on this is that "meh" and "who cares" stem from inertia and apathy which can lead to depression caused by overwhelm, not the other way around.
You talk like inertia and apathy are a root cause, but to me they are symptoms.
To me it sounds like learned helplessness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
People (and animals) who perceive to be systematically unable to avoid or confront sources of stress eventually accept that they have no control over the situation and stop trying.
Except it happens at a nation's scale.
I do think the resulting apathy keeps the problem going. I wonder if apathy looks like the cause because the process starts in early childhood.
Except it happens at a nation's scale.
I do think the resulting apathy keeps the problem going. I wonder if apathy looks like the cause because the process starts in early childhood.
I find your statement true.
Per the article:
>describe themselves as content.
The trouble with the article is Japanese are notoriously not honest with their emotions.
Per the article:
>describe themselves as content.
The trouble with the article is Japanese are notoriously not honest with their emotions.
The article notes that today's youth is more content than earlier generations, so the comparison pertinent to the headline of the article is through time within Japan.
Assuming culture, phrasing, language, etc remain constant.
I know today's Japanese youth and young adults are not very open or honest with their emotions, especially with respect to sharing negative feelings. How that compares to the past, I don't know. It could very well be the same, but take the article's claims with a grain of salt. I just know that I've personally met an unfortunate number of Japanese who are depressed and disaffected.
I know today's Japanese youth and young adults are not very open or honest with their emotions, especially with respect to sharing negative feelings. How that compares to the past, I don't know. It could very well be the same, but take the article's claims with a grain of salt. I just know that I've personally met an unfortunate number of Japanese who are depressed and disaffected.
>Japanese are notoriously not honest with their emotions
Internet stereotypes aside, I'd love a source on that
Internet stereotypes aside, I'd love a source on that
I don't know what "Internet stereotype" is supposed to imply, but you won't live in Japan long before some Japanese friend takes you aside and warns you about the phenomenon of tatemae vs. honne, a Japanese person's public expression of feelings vs his true, carefully hidden feelings. If you learn to read Japanese, you'll notice whole shelves in the big Japanese bookstores devoted to the analysis (mostly by Japanese authors) of differences between Japanese culture and others, such as why the tatemae/honne distinction, present in all cultures, is so extreme in Japan.
Decades ago, anthropologist Ruth Benedict discussed this issue (among others) in her book, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword", which was held in high esteem by the Japanese post-war generation. You might start with that.
Decades ago, anthropologist Ruth Benedict discussed this issue (among others) in her book, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword", which was held in high esteem by the Japanese post-war generation. You might start with that.
I appreciate the readings and will definitely check it out. I've noticed the fetishization of Japanese culture (positive and negative) on the Internet so I'm immediately suspicious of any broad generalizations I see of Japanese people.
I wouldn't just call it an internet stereotype. Have you tried investigating this yourself? It should not be hard to find articles, Youtubers, and bloggers discussing this. Or have you lived in Japan, or have many Japanese friends?
@sdrothrock
I am not in Japan, but the East Coast of USA. I am 22, have no debts, own my car, make 65k and have close to 50k invested in the stock market. I save close to 60% of my income and actively invest it.
On paper, I should be great but I am struggling with this nihilistic attitude to life. I am in good shape, sleep well, drink only water, work on programming projects or other side businesses, play video games, read non-fiction and hang out with friends.
How do I snap out of it and find more meaning in life? I've felt this "content" depressed limbo state for the past 3 years.
My go to quote for how I feel in general is from Fight Club.
“We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
I am not in Japan, but the East Coast of USA. I am 22, have no debts, own my car, make 65k and have close to 50k invested in the stock market. I save close to 60% of my income and actively invest it.
On paper, I should be great but I am struggling with this nihilistic attitude to life. I am in good shape, sleep well, drink only water, work on programming projects or other side businesses, play video games, read non-fiction and hang out with friends.
How do I snap out of it and find more meaning in life? I've felt this "content" depressed limbo state for the past 3 years.
My go to quote for how I feel in general is from Fight Club.
“We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
This description made me think of Mack and his gang in Cannery Row (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannery_Row_(novel)).
Not so much the tomfoolery but just the relative contentment with their lives, despite their lacks.
Not so much the tomfoolery but just the relative contentment with their lives, despite their lacks.
I could see this "meh" culture spreading to the west, with the skyrocketing costs of housing and iffy career prospects, depending on your particular geographic location the lifestyle that westerners have come to take for granted is simply unachievable for most.
2ef90u(1)
I think this has always been the case, it's not a new thing.
I asked my Japanese wife for her opinion on this matter and she thinks the reason Japanese in general are more content is because of the lack of drive created by class inequality. Generally speaking, Japanese people are fairly well taken care of by the social systems and there is not a lot of flaunted wealth unlike in the west. Most Japanese probably see no need to strive and work too hard because their life is okay by most standards. Food is great, healthcare won't make one go bankrupt, good service and there's that whole culture of fitting in "the nail that sticks out must be hammered in". With the lack of visual class divide, younger people just don't see the point of working their asses off. They do it at first because that's what they are taught but once introduced to the very rigid and stressful work environment, there is little hope of advancement. I think the depression and suicide is a result of being content - manifesting in frustration and ultimately being unable to deal with the mundane of every day life (combined with other factors like frustration with work and or lack of partners).
I tend to agree. I have lived here for a short time but you get a sense of this just by being around people.
I tend to agree. I have lived here for a short time but you get a sense of this just by being around people.
I think there's a huge misconception about the conformity in Japan. Yes there is obvious conformity on the surface from a cursory glance, but then how do you explain the innovation that comes out of there? They're super inventive when it comes to Anime, food, design, and technology and it all stands at stark odds with how foreigners perceive them as conformist.
>when it comes to Anime
I am a fan of anime but I think there's a lot of tepid, derivative or uncreative anime being created that Westerners aren't completely exposed to.
For example, there are six or seven anime released in the past few years where the protagonist went to sleep/died and then woke up in a video game world, either in a game they played IRL or simply somehow were transported to the world of a video game or a world that behaves as if it is a video game.
They range from inventive and interesting to tedious rip-offs.
I am a fan of anime but I think there's a lot of tepid, derivative or uncreative anime being created that Westerners aren't completely exposed to.
For example, there are six or seven anime released in the past few years where the protagonist went to sleep/died and then woke up in a video game world, either in a game they played IRL or simply somehow were transported to the world of a video game or a world that behaves as if it is a video game.
They range from inventive and interesting to tedious rip-offs.
Isekai (parallel world?) of various sorts generally come from light novels, which, as I understand it, are amateur novellas aimed at teens and youths with interests in fantasy and subjects typically found in anime. The popular ones get picked up by production companies or pushed by the publisher to be adapted into manga or anime. Usually just the first few books in a series, as a promotional thing i guess.
I think publishers hold contests to find which writers will get their stories serialized and at least according to 4chan isekai stories are banned from those contests now for being too uncreative. So people just posted their stories online and some still got picked up by publishers to get light novelized!
I think publishers hold contests to find which writers will get their stories serialized and at least according to 4chan isekai stories are banned from those contests now for being too uncreative. So people just posted their stories online and some still got picked up by publishers to get light novelized!
Is that any different than the 10 of the last 15 marvel movies basically being basically exactly the same?
Heck let's take western indie games where a large percentage of all indie games are yet another smash brothers clone or a metroidvania clone. There's probably at most 3 more genres that make up the majority of titles
In other words that there is tons of derivative stuff is not even remotely unique to Japan.
There's tons of anime that doesn't make it out of Japan (or used to be) as well of tons of manga that's seriously creative. Walk through a Village Vanguard store for example.
Heck let's take western indie games where a large percentage of all indie games are yet another smash brothers clone or a metroidvania clone. There's probably at most 3 more genres that make up the majority of titles
In other words that there is tons of derivative stuff is not even remotely unique to Japan.
There's tons of anime that doesn't make it out of Japan (or used to be) as well of tons of manga that's seriously creative. Walk through a Village Vanguard store for example.
No need to be defensive. There's a ton of interesting and creative anime that does make it out of Japan as well[0], but as with any mainstream media, the anime industry is optimized for commerce and not art, so Sturgeon's Law tends to apply. Anyone with a Crunchyroll account, for instance, notices pretty quickly how much breadth and how little depth there is to anime.
[0]recommended: Stein's Gate, Psycho Pass, FLCL, Serial Experiments Lain, Tatami Galaxy, Pop Team Epic, Cowboy Bebop, Akame Ga Kill, Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt
[0]recommended: Stein's Gate, Psycho Pass, FLCL, Serial Experiments Lain, Tatami Galaxy, Pop Team Epic, Cowboy Bebop, Akame Ga Kill, Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt
I don't see it as defensive. I see it rather as "other bashing". Claiming Japanese anime has this quality of much of it being clones of other stuff can only be interpreted 2 ways
1. This quality is unique or more common in Japanese anime
2. This is a feature of all media of which Japanese anime is one
If the answer is #2 then there was no reason to say it. It would be like saying "water is wet in Japan". Of course water is wet everywhere so no point in even bringing it up.
If it's #1 then we need proof that Japanese anime has more clones than other media from other countries. I think that proof will be hard to find. Crunchyroll is not Japan.
1. This quality is unique or more common in Japanese anime
2. This is a feature of all media of which Japanese anime is one
If the answer is #2 then there was no reason to say it. It would be like saying "water is wet in Japan". Of course water is wet everywhere so no point in even bringing it up.
If it's #1 then we need proof that Japanese anime has more clones than other media from other countries. I think that proof will be hard to find. Crunchyroll is not Japan.
My point was not that various anime is ripping off plots or themes from other bodies of art outside of anime and is thus derivative, but rather that a fair amount of anime is ripping off its themes from the superior examples of the genre.
There is a lot of anime I would rate much higher than pretty much any other narratives presented in other media formats including my native Hollywood.
There is a lot of anime I would rate much higher than pretty much any other narratives presented in other media formats including my native Hollywood.
Unlike holywood that tends to produce ... never mind the same thriller over and over and over. Or game industry that moves like herd.
Or fantasy genre that is repeating Tolkien tropes over and over and again.
Superhero again and again and again. Detective stories one like another. All vampire stories that kinda copy each other.
Existence of repetition does not cancel out creative inventions.
Or fantasy genre that is repeating Tolkien tropes over and over and again.
Superhero again and again and again. Detective stories one like another. All vampire stories that kinda copy each other.
Existence of repetition does not cancel out creative inventions.
I probably consume more anime than western media product if I'm unflinchingly honest.
And I enjoy anime because it more frequently challenges or presents me with a significant and interesting ethical or philosophical problem.
And I enjoy anime because it more frequently challenges or presents me with a significant and interesting ethical or philosophical problem.
Most everything is crap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
Just find what you like and revel in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
Just find what you like and revel in it.
Maybe that's a side effect from the sheer number and low production cost of Anime.
In my opinion when the Japanese are inventive they have some really out-ther stuff, which is a sign they are really extending themselves in creativity.
In my opinion when the Japanese are inventive they have some really out-ther stuff, which is a sign they are really extending themselves in creativity.
The reason I still enjoy anime as an adult is that I find the stand-out productions to go far beyond the intellectual and physical boundaries of western productions so I definitely agree with you.
One of the aspects of non-American narratives I enjoy is the greater likelihood of a tragic or bitter-sweet ending.
One of the aspects of non-American narratives I enjoy is the greater likelihood of a tragic or bitter-sweet ending.
I agree that functioning social systems and reduced inequality seem to have a huge positive impact on quality of life compared to the US. In addition to health care (which you mentioned), the quality of public schools also seems to be much better on average than in the US. And unlike in the US, where the quality of schools can vary dramatically by the neighborhood you live in (i.e. Palo Alto vs. East Palo Alto in the Bay Area), the quality is fairly consistent between richer areas and poorer areas.
Houses are also much more affordable to own in Japan. Interest rates are around 1%. Tokyo is doing a good job of keeping up with demand, and a single family home in Tokyo can be purchased for under $500k compared to millions of dollars in SF or NY.
These things matter when it comes to contentment. I may not be rich, but I can own my own home, my kids can get a good education, crime is very low, we don't have to worry about going bankrupt if we have a medical emergency, there are amazing public parks nearby that I can visit, good service wherever I ago, etc.
Houses are also much more affordable to own in Japan. Interest rates are around 1%. Tokyo is doing a good job of keeping up with demand, and a single family home in Tokyo can be purchased for under $500k compared to millions of dollars in SF or NY.
These things matter when it comes to contentment. I may not be rich, but I can own my own home, my kids can get a good education, crime is very low, we don't have to worry about going bankrupt if we have a medical emergency, there are amazing public parks nearby that I can visit, good service wherever I ago, etc.
Can you and/or your wife share your opinions on mental health in japanese society? Are people with mental illnesses looked down upon like in most of the world? Are psychologists/therapists a thing? etc.
> there is not a lot of flaunted wealth unlike in the west
Let's not generalize "the west". There's a huge difference in this regard between US and central/southern europe.
Let's not generalize "the west". There's a huge difference in this regard between US and central/southern europe.
So we should expect less technological inventions, less creative solutions from this generation of the Japanese? I believe high Conscientiousness combined with high levels of Neuroticism is a common/promoted personality type over there.
I definitely got a sense of something like that while visiting earlier this year. It's a place where things are working as they should, at least on the surface, so there isn't much to complain about, but it's also built on momentum and institutions left over from when Japan was the industrial power of Asia, stuff that just hasn't broken yet, so nobody has reassessed it. And there's a conflict likely to emerge in that setup, but it's not going to be a full-blown crisis until later, so "contentment" rules the day.
Contrast with the USA; the crisis - social, economic, political - is here, and it has been for a while. Everyone has something to scream at each other about.
Contrast with the USA; the crisis - social, economic, political - is here, and it has been for a while. Everyone has something to scream at each other about.
> it's also built on momentum and institutions left over from when Japan was the industrial power of Asia, stuff that just hasn't broken yet
Do you have the feeling that it is likely to break, or just noting it as a risk?
My gut feel is that despite the significant demographic problems, Japan has one of the better societies for weathering the increasingly rapid changes modern societies are subject to. But keeping it that way I have no clue how they do it (or got it the way it is now for that matter).
Do you have the feeling that it is likely to break, or just noting it as a risk?
My gut feel is that despite the significant demographic problems, Japan has one of the better societies for weathering the increasingly rapid changes modern societies are subject to. But keeping it that way I have no clue how they do it (or got it the way it is now for that matter).
I watched this movie called Tokyo Sonata which was made a decade ago. It's part of the J-Horror genre - which isn't scary at all. It just has a very dark and sombre undertone through the entire film. Definitely an interesting film that relates to this topic since it was set after the 2008 recession.
Young Japanese are surprisingly content
They are less so when they think about the future
That subtitle completely changes the context of this article.
They are less so when they think about the future
That subtitle completely changes the context of this article.
It's just another click-bait title. "Surprisingly"? To whom? Are these the results of a study? An internet survey? Who knows, better click it!
It's been well known that the country has been plagued by decades of malaise [1], and people have long been less happy than people in other countries (as noted in the article).
The surprising news is that there's a significant uptick in reported contentedness now.
You can accuse The Economist of headlines that are too witty by half frequently, but not of click-bait.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)
The surprising news is that there's a significant uptick in reported contentedness now.
You can accuse The Economist of headlines that are too witty by half frequently, but not of click-bait.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)
> "Around 40% of unmarried Japanese are still virgins at the age of 34."
That's a pretty damning statistic for a secular country. Is that a world record?
That's a pretty damning statistic for a secular country. Is that a world record?
There's a really good post on Tumblr that explains what the culture of intercourse is like in Japan: http://asukaskerian.tumblr.com/post/167188662255/sex-and-fli.... Various responses in the notes confirm that that's what it's like.
Frankly, sex in Japan sounds miserable and I hardly blame them for not being particularly eager to have more of it
Frankly, sex in Japan sounds miserable and I hardly blame them for not being particularly eager to have more of it
The sex part (passive and active) has not been my experience as a guy who lived in Japan but then again I'd say that both Japanese girlfriends I've had were rather atypical. Sex without showers being considered gross is true though.
One factual error too is that maguro is an insult. Maguro is hardly considered to be a delicacy either, I mean it's the not so great part of the tuna... Otoro or chutoro would probably be more adequate if it were supposed to be named after delicacies but then that would conjure fat and oiliness which I'm not sure would make most girls happy.
The rest is rather true with the exceptions that I've had drunk japanese girls be very direct about their intentions. So, while I agree that they tend to not be direct, alcohol does play a role. An average though, girls or guys who end up with foreign boyfriends or girlfriends will tend to be more open minded than the rest of the population, so there's a bit of a sampling bias.
One factual error too is that maguro is an insult. Maguro is hardly considered to be a delicacy either, I mean it's the not so great part of the tuna... Otoro or chutoro would probably be more adequate if it were supposed to be named after delicacies but then that would conjure fat and oiliness which I'm not sure would make most girls happy.
The rest is rather true with the exceptions that I've had drunk japanese girls be very direct about their intentions. So, while I agree that they tend to not be direct, alcohol does play a role. An average though, girls or guys who end up with foreign boyfriends or girlfriends will tend to be more open minded than the rest of the population, so there's a bit of a sampling bias.
Calling someone a maguro is not positive or nice. It’s saying they are a dead fish. I don’t think the author has (much?) experience having sex with Japanese
Here’s your correction.
> Correction (February 22nd 2018): The original version of this article said that around 40% of Japanese were still virgins at the age of 34. In fact, that only applies to unmarried Japanese.
They could also be lying on the surveys.
> Correction (February 22nd 2018): The original version of this article said that around 40% of Japanese were still virgins at the age of 34. In fact, that only applies to unmarried Japanese.
They could also be lying on the surveys.
It's unlikely that many are lying. The phenomenon of the "Herbivore Man" has spread and there are now signs of a similar trend among some women.
The perspective behind all this appears to be: "If I get involved in a relationship, even a purely sexual one, the time and effort required of me won't be worth the trouble. I would rather just do my own thing and spend time with platonic friends."
The perspective behind all this appears to be: "If I get involved in a relationship, even a purely sexual one, the time and effort required of me won't be worth the trouble. I would rather just do my own thing and spend time with platonic friends."
It's pretty odd that a man would lie about being a virgin, but I suppose that's the western perspective.
Presumably ~half the people surveyed were women, and being unmarried that might be a position they'd like to hold onto.
That said, it seems like this has been a recurring theme in stories about Japanese youth I've seen in recent years, that asexuality is becoming a thing.
That said, it seems like this has been a recurring theme in stories about Japanese youth I've seen in recent years, that asexuality is becoming a thing.
Just to be clear chastity and asexuality are not the same thing.
A chaste person experiences sexual attraction but chooses not to act on it.
An asexual person doesn't experience (or experiences very little) sexual attraction in the first place.
A chaste person experiences sexual attraction but chooses not to act on it.
An asexual person doesn't experience (or experiences very little) sexual attraction in the first place.
Clear about the distinction - I definitely meant asexuality. They appear to lack interest, or at least that's the impression I've gotten.
nexus2045(4)
The importance people put on other people's sex lives, whether them having too much sex or not enought sex is completely incomprehensible to me. Some livestyles, for example too much work/study or preference for being alone, leads itself to less sex, regard less of religion.
The way some people treat sex as not just pleasant activity or something that we biologically wish for, but also something that you must have lest it is "damning" is odd.
The way some people treat sex as not just pleasant activity or something that we biologically wish for, but also something that you must have lest it is "damning" is odd.
Western media has this super creepy obsession with Japanese sex lives that I really wish would just go away.
People can live their sex lives however they want, nobody's dictating anything to anyone here. I'm no sex expert, but I'd bet that the majority of those 34 year old virgins - at least the men - would rather not be virgins.
Sure. They also want might want cheaper healthcare, higher social status, better car, not be lonely, better health, some want deeper relationship, have children (not just because kids are result of sex), they dont travel enough and what not.
But it is sex people systematically find damning and focus on.
But it is sex people systematically find damning and focus on.
I remember there being a bunch of articles over the past year about "sexless-Japan" and I mainly clicked to see if this was yet another one of those dumb articles.
It's mentioned in passing but I'm not sure why this article was written. "Young people feel good about life" is a welcome change from the usual "rah rah, be upset about [bad thing]".
It's mentioned in passing but I'm not sure why this article was written. "Young people feel good about life" is a welcome change from the usual "rah rah, be upset about [bad thing]".
Expect to see the usual breakdowns, anecdotes and armchair analyses of how they're doing it wrong, and should emulate the "West" in everything which is clearly without any problems, as seems to be the par for course in any news of Japan, positive or negative, on non-Japanese forums.
The article appears to be the opposite of this.
Yes, but I was referring to the tendency of a few simplistic memes for showing up in most discussions about Japan: "but what about their suicide rates!", "but their economy isn't growing at a billion dollars an hour!", "but their declining birthrate!" and so on.
I think the west can learn a great number of things from Japan. For example their streets (in Tokyo) are the cleanest of any major city I've ever visited. It is a huge sign and deserving of respect that a society can make sure their streets are clean.
The fact that the bidet/spray toilet is used is imo a big indicator of sophistication and significantly superior in every way to toilet paper.
But then again, there's dumb things too: they plant trees underneath powerlines ^^ Maybe that subsides jobs?
Awesome country.
The fact that the bidet/spray toilet is used is imo a big indicator of sophistication and significantly superior in every way to toilet paper.
But then again, there's dumb things too: they plant trees underneath powerlines ^^ Maybe that subsides jobs?
Awesome country.
YES!
It is so. Damn. CLEAN. I’ve hated the concept of littering since I was a little kid and it pisses me off to see peope who don’t respect their environment.
I was able to spend two weeks in Japan last year and boy, it was glorious. I also like how it’s illegal to smoke while walking. You have to go to a designated smoking area.
It is so. Damn. CLEAN. I’ve hated the concept of littering since I was a little kid and it pisses me off to see peope who don’t respect their environment.
I was able to spend two weeks in Japan last year and boy, it was glorious. I also like how it’s illegal to smoke while walking. You have to go to a designated smoking area.
Indeed. A place where people in general actually don't WANT to litter to begin with, instead of one where the government has to continually pick up after them and cleanliness has to be enforced by fines etc., must be so refreshing to live in just for that alone.
It's even more admirable when you consider that Tokyo has been the world's largest metropolis by several metrics (at least until recently, but even now it's #2 or thereby), and compare it with the state of other densely-populated cities:
[0] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+New+Delhi
[1] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+Karachi
It's even more admirable when you consider that Tokyo has been the world's largest metropolis by several metrics (at least until recently, but even now it's #2 or thereby), and compare it with the state of other densely-populated cities:
[0] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+New+Delhi
[1] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garbage+in+Karachi
Those pics look terrible. Oh my god.
They don’t nearly convey how bad it is to actually live there, which I have. It’s depressing how so relatively few places really care about keeping a clean environment.
I think all countries could learn from each other, and indeed will have to if humanity is to move forward as a whole, but people sadly seem to fixate on the bad points of “others” or are too arrogant to adopt the good points from others.
The West is a big place. Bidets are actually mandated by law here in Portugal (and also Italy, according to Wikipedia).
[deleted]
From the comments on this thread, it seems like the documentary “Japan: A Story of Love and Hate”[1] might not only be relevant, but also of interest to many of the commenters.
Coincidentally, I watched it from a recent recommendation on HN[2]. That comment has a link to stream the movie.
[1]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401179/
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16779954
Coincidentally, I watched it from a recent recommendation on HN[2]. That comment has a link to stream the movie.
[1]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401179/
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16779954
Being content could mean 2 things: optimistic that your situation is great, your effort is paying off and your life is on the right track or pessimistic that you accept things won't get better so just enjoy and be grateful for what you already have.
In case of Japan, it is probably leaning towards the latter. By control, or contain your desire to reach a state of peace, or inertia. Not really surprised because Japan, deep inside, is still very much influenced by the thoughts of Buddhism. Is this really self content? I would like to offer my share of benefit of doubt.
In case of Japan, it is probably leaning towards the latter. By control, or contain your desire to reach a state of peace, or inertia. Not really surprised because Japan, deep inside, is still very much influenced by the thoughts of Buddhism. Is this really self content? I would like to offer my share of benefit of doubt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan
Is the suicide rate really significantly higher than other developed countries considering it's 5 more suicides per 100,000 people?
The article seems to imply that it's a big problem with it being the leading cause of death in Japan, but there are few things that can kill you over there since most people don't drive, and violent crimes are almost non-existent.
Is the suicide rate really significantly higher than other developed countries considering it's 5 more suicides per 100,000 people?
The article seems to imply that it's a big problem with it being the leading cause of death in Japan, but there are few things that can kill you over there since most people don't drive, and violent crimes are almost non-existent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...
The rate has actually fallen to 15 per 100,000 people, which is only 3 more than the 12 per 100,000 people in the United States. So not great but also probably not a big enough of a difference to be brought up in every single conversation about japan like it currently is. South Korea on the other hand... yikes.
The rate has actually fallen to 15 per 100,000 people, which is only 3 more than the 12 per 100,000 people in the United States. So not great but also probably not a big enough of a difference to be brought up in every single conversation about japan like it currently is. South Korea on the other hand... yikes.
"Young people are all too conscious of the social and economic burdens they will have to shoulder. Over-65s already account for 28% of the population, almost double the proportion of 15- to 29-year-olds. By 2065 they are projected to rise to nearly 40%. The welfare system is struggling to keep up."
I don't get this. What is supposed to be this so called burden nowadays? What will elderly people require? Food and medicine? First can be considered cheap, relative to the amount of employed people. Actually, I'm not sure there will be needed much more workers than now, if things will continue to improve, we may expect to need less. Healthcare maybe will require a small increase to cope with the growing numbers of patients. (But maybe not necessarily so, considering that the system already serves the current numbers of people and the population is declining?) The Japanese government already pays for 70% of healthcare services for working people, how much of a difference will it make to cover it a little bit more for the old? So what remains there to struggle with? Some food-stamps and a small increase (relative to already existing levels) in healthcare subvention? On the other hand, after giving them food and healthcare, you're pretty much free to cut in pensions as much as you must. It isn't like there are leases or mortgages to be paid. Not from pensions, mind you.
I don't get this. What is supposed to be this so called burden nowadays? What will elderly people require? Food and medicine? First can be considered cheap, relative to the amount of employed people. Actually, I'm not sure there will be needed much more workers than now, if things will continue to improve, we may expect to need less. Healthcare maybe will require a small increase to cope with the growing numbers of patients. (But maybe not necessarily so, considering that the system already serves the current numbers of people and the population is declining?) The Japanese government already pays for 70% of healthcare services for working people, how much of a difference will it make to cover it a little bit more for the old? So what remains there to struggle with? Some food-stamps and a small increase (relative to already existing levels) in healthcare subvention? On the other hand, after giving them food and healthcare, you're pretty much free to cut in pensions as much as you must. It isn't like there are leases or mortgages to be paid. Not from pensions, mind you.
Elderly people need the same things as all other people, plus more healthcare. A LOT more. Some studies have shown that over half of a persons total lifetime healthcare expenditures occur in their senior years
Imagine you kept spending the same you do today, but stopped earning income to pay for it. Then on top of that your healthcare spend goes up an order of magnitude. Then imagine this happens to a significant portion of your fellow countrymen in a short time period
Imagine you kept spending the same you do today, but stopped earning income to pay for it. Then on top of that your healthcare spend goes up an order of magnitude. Then imagine this happens to a significant portion of your fellow countrymen in a short time period
Healthcare was one of the things I've counted as important for the elderly people, I don't understand why you deemed necessary to repeat me on this. If it was to put the proportion in prospective, then whatever amount is necessary, the government already pays A LOT of it. When it's the government who pays, it doesn't make much difference for the patients if they begin to need more of it.
"Elderly people need the same things as all other people"
Like what? This is where it would have been actually interesting to have something meaningful from you, but here you're just glossing over. From what I noticed (and heard directly from elders around me) it's the other way around.
"Elderly people need the same things as all other people"
Like what? This is where it would have been actually interesting to have something meaningful from you, but here you're just glossing over. From what I noticed (and heard directly from elders around me) it's the other way around.
Do they need it as they age or in the final period of their life? If it's the later then it isn't really a problem, a year of medical care at 85 isn't much different from a year at 75. On the other hand if they are consuming healthcare from 65 until the end of their life then that is a bigger problem.
It is both. Roughly one-third of a person's lifetime healthcare costs occur in middle age, and half occur when they are seniors. This is based on US data from 2004 but it is a large sample (almost 4M patients)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/
The government pays for 70% of healthcare for working people. I.e. these are productive citizens (presumably) putting more into the system than they are getting out of it, at ~72% (mathematically, that's 2.5 productive citizens per elderly). If the proportion rises to 40/60, that's a 1.5 citizen/elderly ratio. That itself is a huge concern.
> Japanese youth, like young people the world over, drink less and have less sex than previous cohorts of their age. They are far less likely to be sexually active than their American counterparts. Around 40% of unmarried Japanese are still virgins at the age of 34.
Wow. I had no idea about that, the statistics seem shocking.
Wow. I had no idea about that, the statistics seem shocking.
[deleted]
Japanese people seem to be in a pretty good place emotionally. They are pretty closed-off, as I expected, but they're more laid back than people in many Western countries and definitely much less stressed than Americans. I'm speaking in generalities here, of course, and I haven't been to Tokyo yet.
> There are several reasons why satisfaction is rising. Partly because of the cost of housing, more young people live with their parents. Masahiro Yamada, a sociologist, calls them “parasite singles”.
Yeah, accomodation is ridiculously expensive here and it's reflected in the price of hotels and how small everything is. It was pretty claustrophobic my first few days here. There's an interesting article[0] talking about the housing situation but I don't know if it's accurate or not.
> Life is pleasanter in other ways too. On every street corner is a 7-Eleven or similar convenience store where young people can buy everything from stationery to ready meals (and heat and eat them on the spot), flick through manga comics, and buy tickets to baseball matches.
My favorite part of Japan is that you can walk down an average block and expect to pass a dozen vending machines with coffee, energy drinks, and beer. Always gives me a good laugh. In this sense life is pretty convenient, but in Korea it is even more so (their skyscrapers literally have miniature malls in them).
> Although rapid economic growth is history, they appreciate that living standards remain high, and that life (apart from housing) is affordable.
This seems true, stuff like food is not as expensive as I expected (coffee is a dollar, a sushi dinner for two is 60 dollars maximum and usually more like 20.) Korea was even cheaper, though, and the food was much better.
> That is good news for a country where the word “youth” tends, with good reason, to conjure up images of gloomy misfits: hikikomori—people who shun society—and otaku—nerds.
Most "otakus" I've seen so far were foreigners and not Japanese. I can't comment on the number of hikikomoro here, for obvious reasons, but I do think these are exagerrated stereotypes. Perhaps these stereotypes were more true in the past.
Just some observations, I've only been here a week. Oh yeah, and Japanese people drive less, bike more, and tend to be rather fit (or at least not obese) -- that gives them a big leg up on Western countries in the happiness department :)
[0]: http://thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Prices.html
> There are several reasons why satisfaction is rising. Partly because of the cost of housing, more young people live with their parents. Masahiro Yamada, a sociologist, calls them “parasite singles”.
Yeah, accomodation is ridiculously expensive here and it's reflected in the price of hotels and how small everything is. It was pretty claustrophobic my first few days here. There's an interesting article[0] talking about the housing situation but I don't know if it's accurate or not.
> Life is pleasanter in other ways too. On every street corner is a 7-Eleven or similar convenience store where young people can buy everything from stationery to ready meals (and heat and eat them on the spot), flick through manga comics, and buy tickets to baseball matches.
My favorite part of Japan is that you can walk down an average block and expect to pass a dozen vending machines with coffee, energy drinks, and beer. Always gives me a good laugh. In this sense life is pretty convenient, but in Korea it is even more so (their skyscrapers literally have miniature malls in them).
> Although rapid economic growth is history, they appreciate that living standards remain high, and that life (apart from housing) is affordable.
This seems true, stuff like food is not as expensive as I expected (coffee is a dollar, a sushi dinner for two is 60 dollars maximum and usually more like 20.) Korea was even cheaper, though, and the food was much better.
> That is good news for a country where the word “youth” tends, with good reason, to conjure up images of gloomy misfits: hikikomori—people who shun society—and otaku—nerds.
Most "otakus" I've seen so far were foreigners and not Japanese. I can't comment on the number of hikikomoro here, for obvious reasons, but I do think these are exagerrated stereotypes. Perhaps these stereotypes were more true in the past.
Just some observations, I've only been here a week. Oh yeah, and Japanese people drive less, bike more, and tend to be rather fit (or at least not obese) -- that gives them a big leg up on Western countries in the happiness department :)
[0]: http://thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Prices.html
Quote from Dave Chappelle: "I say this with no disrespect. We’re all Americans, and we can all agree that America has a huge body count all over the world, but nowhere more than Asia. Literally, if you look at history recently, we have bombed the masculinity out of an entire continent. We have dropped two atomic bombs on fuckin’ Japan and they’ve been drawing Hello Kitty and shit ever since."
Maybe Chappelle could google for “Kyokushin” one of these days...
It's better than most karate, but Japan's martial culture has actually been fairly average since the fall of imperial Japan. Granted, they aren't china, but he's right in that the culture softened an incredible amount following a total defeat in WW2.
I think there are at least two kinds of "content" -- one that stems from happiness and another that stems from depression.
The former is the good kind, the one we all assume the article is talking about.
The latter is a resounding "meh" followed by a "who cares."
I've seen a lot of the latter in people in their 20s and early 30s here. The world's going to shit, the society's going to shit, nobody has money, rent is expensive, nobody cares. Spend the money now and enjoy hanging out with friends -- screw retirement and the future because you can deal with it later, preferably with the pension system.
Who's going to get ahead at work? The old folks are all impressing their own power structure on the younger folks and making life miserable. Why bust your ass at work when you can just do your own thing with a bunch of jobs cobbled together?
So, basically, a lot of the "content" people I see around me around happy with their lot, they just don't think their lot's going to improve or worth working on.
This is from a point of view of 11 years in Japan, six years in Tokyo.