Stop treating tech jerks like gods(nypost.com)
nypost.com
Stop treating tech jerks like gods
https://nypost.com/2018/09/01/stop-treating-tech-jerks-like-gods/
31 comments
We still have modern rock (or pick your genre) stars. You won't see a crowd of teenage girls holding "MARRY ME" signs and losing their minds when Zuckerberg is giving a talk. I also disagree with trivializing/ignoring the fact that these industry titans sit at the top of companies that employ thousands of people. I don't think Nirvana ever had cities competing with handouts and tax incentives to get them to tour. No, these guys aren't the rock stars, they're the record execs, and they've earned the public's disdain.
Aren't tech leaders such as Musk and Jobs different from rock stars though? Both groups might exhibit poor personal behavior but only tech leaders have the ability to make thousands of employees work in miserable conditions. I agree that the article kind of misses the point when it discusses the private lives of these figures but there is definitely something to the idea that people who treat their employees like shit shouldn't be worshipped.
Well I mean beside the fact people do say that Elon's work ethic is inspirational or that he's a great communicator. You might not but a loud and aggressive minority do.
That said, although I can see why you might disagree with others on Musk I don't really understand why you'd get properly angry on Musk's behalf. Musk is rich enough, powerful enough and old enough to stand up for himself without needing an army of internet warriors.
That said, although I can see why you might disagree with others on Musk I don't really understand why you'd get properly angry on Musk's behalf. Musk is rich enough, powerful enough and old enough to stand up for himself without needing an army of internet warriors.
I think "angry" is a bit strong, but i understand why some people overreact against musk critics. There aren't that many people on earth able to do what he's done at the moment. Same for jobs at his time. They're able to make the tech industry move forward, and at the same time provide a show for everyone to enjoy, and be inspired by (the show, not themselves, at least initialy).
This is rare. I don't think i've had the sensation of seeing humanity move forward as much as the day i saw that car fly around earth, and the two launcher get back to earth vertically. This was straight from a science fiction movie, and yet, thanks to Elon (and all the people he recruited), that was true.
This is something that should legitimately be admired, without being ashamed of it (as opposed to being a fan of certain music star).
Doesn't mean Elon should have a free rein for everything he does, and shouldn't be called overoptimistic when he is (if not borderline bullshiter). But at the minimum, we should feel grateful for what he already did.
This is rare. I don't think i've had the sensation of seeing humanity move forward as much as the day i saw that car fly around earth, and the two launcher get back to earth vertically. This was straight from a science fiction movie, and yet, thanks to Elon (and all the people he recruited), that was true.
This is something that should legitimately be admired, without being ashamed of it (as opposed to being a fan of certain music star).
Doesn't mean Elon should have a free rein for everything he does, and shouldn't be called overoptimistic when he is (if not borderline bullshiter). But at the minimum, we should feel grateful for what he already did.
But like those rockstars, they do become role models for other's behavior.
I certainly support many of the goals Musk has, and would like to see him succeed in those. However, he seems to have made some pretty questionable decisions recently which he does need to answer for appropriately.
I certainly support many of the goals Musk has, and would like to see him succeed in those. However, he seems to have made some pretty questionable decisions recently which he does need to answer for appropriately.
> But like those rockstars, they do become role models for other's behavior.
How many rock star can you name who became a role model?
How many rock star can you name who became a role model?
The problem comes when people want to achieve similar success, and think that this type of behavior is the key to doing it, so they emulate being jerks because that’s what these guys did. Maybe being a jerk is one trait that helps you achieve that status, or maybe it’s a byproduct of other traits that make people successful.
I disagree. Riches and fame are sure to draw legions of fame, no matter how offensive the misdeeds of the celebrity.
It seems part of modern day life.
It seems part of modern day life.
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This was flagged and I've vouched for it as I really don't see why. I'm hopeing it wasn't because Musk fans are just flagging anti Musk content, I believe that his community is above that kind of behavior. Perhaps a mod has the ability to review,or a flagger can comment on their reasons. I think the topic of the article is something that should be discussed in the tech sector.
I actually origianlly came here to say it's interesting that the article picks Gates as a counter example as during his working career he was known for being ruthless, and found guilty of anti competitive behavior by several jurisdictions. I agree he's a role model now, but not sure he has always been.
I actually origianlly came here to say it's interesting that the article picks Gates as a counter example as during his working career he was known for being ruthless, and found guilty of anti competitive behavior by several jurisdictions. I agree he's a role model now, but not sure he has always been.
RE: Gates. I think the distinction they're making is that Gates may have been ruthless in business but he's not like that on a personal level. Or at least he projects that image. I've no idea if this is true or not but I think that's what they were saying.
RE: Being flagged. To be honest these discussion can often become very unproductive so I wouldn't be surprised if it disappears into the ether.
RE: Being flagged. To be honest these discussion can often become very unproductive so I wouldn't be surprised if it disappears into the ether.
The general consensus is that Gates was demanding but fair-minded and nto really prone to the kind of pettiness and ubermensching of Jobs, Musk, Zuck, etc.
Also he at least seemed to be having fun throughout.
Also he at least seemed to be having fun throughout.
Yeah I've been thinking for a while how strange it is that Musk, for example, seems to have a strange little cult of personality surrounding him.
I don't think it's strange. He's both a 'character', very much in the public eye, and quite successful by some measures. I think those types of people will usually cause cult-like behavior. And while I don't have a strong opinion on Musk's achievements or on whether they're good or bad, he seems at least more deserving of a cult-like following that many others who have similar fans.
The truth is, being rich and powerful is of much more survival benefit than being nice.
(which can in fact be detrimental at times)
If you want to take a stand against it, you're taking a stand against human condition... Good luck, you're going to need it. Even religions fail. Fighting a modern day cult is hard.
(which can in fact be detrimental at times)
If you want to take a stand against it, you're taking a stand against human condition... Good luck, you're going to need it. Even religions fail. Fighting a modern day cult is hard.
can we stop telling other people what they should do?
these tech giants are worshiped for what they achieve and how they transform the world, not for their flaws. And yes, they are flawed... they are not "perfect" like the instagram role models you follow - and live vicariously thru.
and using bill gates as a good role model is just laughable to anyone who knows just a tiny bit about his work ethics as Microsoft CEO.
these tech giants are worshiped for what they achieve and how they transform the world, not for their flaws. And yes, they are flawed... they are not "perfect" like the instagram role models you follow - and live vicariously thru.
and using bill gates as a good role model is just laughable to anyone who knows just a tiny bit about his work ethics as Microsoft CEO.
> Despite tremendous financial security, success and personal comfort, these men gained a reputation for being petty and ungenerous whenever possible. They don’t exemplify very many personality traits we associate with a good person.
I realize this is beside the point, so downvote me if you like, but I'm not sure a Trump mouthpiece like the NY Post has any business calling people out for being petty and ungenerous...
Add to that the mostly-baseless anti-tech crusade the president and his media friends have been on for the last year or so, I'm very surprised to see this rag getting any sort of traction at all on HN.
I realize this is beside the point, so downvote me if you like, but I'm not sure a Trump mouthpiece like the NY Post has any business calling people out for being petty and ungenerous...
Add to that the mostly-baseless anti-tech crusade the president and his media friends have been on for the last year or so, I'm very surprised to see this rag getting any sort of traction at all on HN.
> a Trump mouthpiece like the NY Post
I think you might be confusing something … the NY Post, while being a right-wing tabloid, has been quite outspoken against Trump for a long time.
I think you might be confusing something … the NY Post, while being a right-wing tabloid, has been quite outspoken against Trump for a long time.
I haver other gods: Richard Stallman, Aaron Swartz, Noam Chomsky, Richard Feynman...
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I think Bill Gates have hurt the world more than Musk and Jobs combined. I don't subscribe to utilitarianism, so giving money to charities don't make up for damaging personal computing.
Nobody is saying we should copy elon work ethic, or public communication, or jobs’ family affairs. Everybody agrees they’re not perfect and can probably be aholes sometimes. But we don’t care. And we’re angry at people trying to focus on the bad aspects of their personalities as a way to diminish their professional accomplishments.