Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac(pspdfkit.com)
pspdfkit.com
Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac
https://pspdfkit.com/blog/2018/porting-ios-apps-to-mac-marzipan-iosmac-uikit-appkit/
56 comments
Hello Hacker News, Author here. AMA. This was fun to build!
How usable are Mac VMs? I previously tried VBox and VMware but recalled issues making it unusable (eg graphics). It seems like with Hyperkit it should be simple to bring up a macOS VM with SIP diasabled for dev purposes in like 30 seconds.
They are not great to work with. You can get away with CI, but not as a work machine. No GPU acceleration.
This direction gives me huge hope we'll soon see mouse support for iPad. It's the greatest handicap to doing productive work, particularly text editing.
I think we're very close. You can already tap and hold on the spacebar in iOS 12 and it turns into a trackpad like control for moving the cursor in textfields.
I don't think we're close. Apple will always insist on distinguishing between touch and pointer devices. Even now that they let you port iOS apps to the Mac.
this is there in Gboard on android devices too(that have full support for mice). how is this an indicator of possible support?
This has been present since iOS 10, and on iPhones with force touch you can force touch the keyboard anywhere and it'll turn into a trackpad.
Somehow on iOS 12 my iPhone 6s only works on Spacebar, not anywhere on the Keyboard.
do you have 3d touch enabled? Afaik if it's disabled only the spacebar method works. If it is enabled only the force touch method works.
I had no idea this existed! This is quite awsome, although I mostly use my iPad with a BT keyboard.
iPhone XS - works anywhere on the keyboard but I think apple may change that because the XR doesn’t have force touch.
I hope not though.
I hope not though.
I never knew about this feature. This is great, thank you both! Now I just need to get used to using this feature. I jumped a bit back and forth while writing this comment and found myself reflexively using the old way, but with a little bit of time and deliberation I am sure that I will soon be using either the spacebar or force touch without having to think about it :)
Oh my god, thank you for telling me about this. I just upgrade from a 6s to a SE and I've dearly missed being able to move the cursor around with force touch (the only useful force touch feature.) Just checked and holding the spacebar works great. Thanks!
Wow there IS a use for force touch!
Force Touch is very useful; the only issue with it is that it’s not discoverable.
Neither was right clicking in Windows 95, but that didn't stop us from finding places where it was useful and adopting it.
A mouse (unless Apple made it) has visible buttons. A touch screen has no indications that it can be force touched.
You only discover force touch if you mistakenly use too much force at the right time and place, which isn't an everyday occurrence. Where as a right click function could be discovered by clicking randomly with the right button which was obviously put there with purpose.
You only discover force touch if you mistakenly use too much force at the right time and place, which isn't an everyday occurrence. Where as a right click function could be discovered by clicking randomly with the right button which was obviously put there with purpose.
I really doubt the discovery of force touch itself is an issue.. it was in all their ads and they made a big deal out of it; when force touch can be applied, and for what purpose, is the bigger issue. The same problem apple has with option key. Right click is somewhat sensible: it works mostly everywhere, and gives you a “little menu” that you can equivalently find from the apps main menu. and it returns some result, always.
But option and force touch.. its unclear when its applicable, what it’ll get you, if it even went through and for option, where the resulting button even is
But option and force touch.. its unclear when its applicable, what it’ll get you, if it even went through and for option, where the resulting button even is
In Windows 95, right clicking did not always have an effect.
There was no way to know in advance if right clicking a particular thing would provide options or not.
There was no way to know in advance if right clicking a particular thing would provide options or not.
Yes however the mere presence of the right mouse button indicates that there's functionality intended. A curious user might go around right clicking on things to see what the button does. Buttons are meant to be pressed.
Force Touch has no physically or observable clues to it's existence and thus does not encourage experimentation and exploration.
Force Touch has no physically or observable clues to it's existence and thus does not encourage experimentation and exploration.
Mice on PCs had multiple buttons before Windows 95 came along to sometimes gave that right mouse button a purpose.
Despite the fact that there was zero indication that right clicking a particular thing in Windows 95 might actually do something, and the fact that there was always an alternative way to access that information or function for those who only had a one button mouse, we managed to adopt the right click functionality anyway.
Force touch is no more a secret than the adoption of the right mouse button was in Windows 95.
Despite the fact that there was zero indication that right clicking a particular thing in Windows 95 might actually do something, and the fact that there was always an alternative way to access that information or function for those who only had a one button mouse, we managed to adopt the right click functionality anyway.
Force touch is no more a secret than the adoption of the right mouse button was in Windows 95.
> Force touch is no more a secret than the adoption of the right mouse button was in Windows 95.
I don't think you understand discoverability at all.
People know there's a right mouse button simply by looking at the mouse. They might not know when or where to use it but they can see the button and know it has a purpose. The button invites people to press it and they might randomly try it in various places to see if it does anything and discover a feature. The OS is irrelevant.
You can't see Force Touch. You don't know it's there until someone tells.
I don't think you understand discoverability at all.
People know there's a right mouse button simply by looking at the mouse. They might not know when or where to use it but they can see the button and know it has a purpose. The button invites people to press it and they might randomly try it in various places to see if it does anything and discover a feature. The OS is irrelevant.
You can't see Force Touch. You don't know it's there until someone tells.
There was a great jailbreak thing that predated this (and force touch) where you accessed the caret-placement mode by swiping across the keyboard. It was really great, and it never failed, which happens a lot for me with Apple's force touch implementation - I end up pressing harder and harder with no effect, until I have to give up and accept some random character getting inserted, then delete and try again. I think I had that jailbreak mod on an iPhone 4s.
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You can do this on iPads with 2-fingers.
WTF. I had no idea. That is insanely helpful. Thank you for making my daily life better.
Apple has been rapidly improving the power of its processors in iOS devices. At the same time, it has been promoting privacy. Now it’s giving developers an incentive to develop apps for iOS that are friendly to desktop users. And Apple hasn’t been giving Macbooks much attention lately.
This tells me Apple plans an iOS desktop mode. You could pair a monitor, keyboard, and mouse with your phone and work at a desk. All your apps, settings, and files stay physically with you, never leaving your device as you carry it to work/school/home/etc. iOS devices would be used like the Nintendo Switch but for desktop computing in addition to gaming.
This tells me Apple plans an iOS desktop mode. You could pair a monitor, keyboard, and mouse with your phone and work at a desk. All your apps, settings, and files stay physically with you, never leaving your device as you carry it to work/school/home/etc. iOS devices would be used like the Nintendo Switch but for desktop computing in addition to gaming.
Apple would rather you buy a mac at home, a mac in the office, and an ipad for the commute--all tied together and locked in the apple garden with an icloud subscription--than let you get away with all this use out of just one device.
Is full-on mouse support required, or do you really just need an easier way to reposition the cursor and making selections?
If it's the latter, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Apple come up with something that only solves the latter.
If it's the latter, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Apple come up with something that only solves the latter.
The latter of which already exists: force touch anywhere on the keyboard to drag the text cursor around.
I think the biggest problem comes from supporting external displays. For me to fully swap to iOS as a development platform (ignoring missing software currently) I would need to be able to plug into a larger display at some point, and have a way of controlling apps on that display without using touch at all.
iOS already supports two displays with AirPlay. You can have a separate image on the device and the display.
Once you get to that point, though, it seems like what you're really looking for is a computer and not a mobile device.
Perhaps what's missing is not an iPad with mouse support, but a Mac with a more Surface-like form factor.
Perhaps what's missing is not an iPad with mouse support, but a Mac with a more Surface-like form factor.
I'm posting using a wireless mouse and USB keyboard from my Android desktop, a 4K tv box.
Android does support mouse input; Apple can at any time release a typecover for iPad with a trackpad. They choose not to.
Android does support mouse input; Apple can at any time release a typecover for iPad with a trackpad. They choose not to.
I have no problem with a mouse solution that's only active in textareas. But, as others note, if the external display is a real option then a mouse becomes necessary. Personally, I still doubt the iPad will drive external displays.
Unfortunately, Maripan is about porting iOS apps to the Mac, not the other way around. Apple's work on Marzipan isn't really an indication they're planning to do the inverse and bring Mac apps to iOS or do anything at all re: mouse. (Though maybe better mouse support will get back-ported into UIKit for iOS as a result of them having to do it for macOS? We can cross our fingers!)
Other than precision, why would you need mouse support on a touchscreen device with an OS that is built and optimized for touch?
And you can get better precision from the Apple Pencil or other styli.
Mouse-support would actually be a step backwards on an iPad; multitouch lets you do things that are impossible with the single pointer of a mouse, such as interacting with multiple UI elements (like sliders, knobs) at the same time with multiple fingers, even across different apps in split-view.
I'm honestly glad iPhones/iPads/Macs don't try to be touchscreen PCs, and I'm glad Apple explores the full breadth of each device's unique strengths, borrowing the best from each other without trying to be each other (except in some cases like wasting the larger screen space on iPads; displaying a single column of Lock Screen widgets or showing 4x4 icons in folders even on the 12.9" iPad.)
And you can get better precision from the Apple Pencil or other styli.
Mouse-support would actually be a step backwards on an iPad; multitouch lets you do things that are impossible with the single pointer of a mouse, such as interacting with multiple UI elements (like sliders, knobs) at the same time with multiple fingers, even across different apps in split-view.
I'm honestly glad iPhones/iPads/Macs don't try to be touchscreen PCs, and I'm glad Apple explores the full breadth of each device's unique strengths, borrowing the best from each other without trying to be each other (except in some cases like wasting the larger screen space on iPads; displaying a single column of Lock Screen widgets or showing 4x4 icons in folders even on the 12.9" iPad.)
Precision. That’s exactly why I need mouse support. I do not find relying on touch alone an acceptable experience when using an iPad full time as a productivity device.
Maybe controversial but I just find holding my arm in the air (assuming the keyboard is attached) to be tiring for big sessions. With a mouse I could relax.
With an stylus you can touch while keeping your palm rested. An stylus also gives you added reach which reduces the distance you have to lift your arm.
If you need to touch the screen frequently during certain workflows, tilt the iPad at a low angle (so you look down on it) and if you're using a detachable keyboard you can keep it to the side.
If you need to touch the screen frequently during certain workflows, tilt the iPad at a low angle (so you look down on it) and if you're using a detachable keyboard you can keep it to the side.
Ergonomics, if you’re using it with a keyboard. Which a lot of people seem to these days. Keyboard-and-touchscreen is a bad combination.
I've been using an iPad with a keyboard and Apple Pencil for over a couple years. For different workflows you can use different degrees of tilt (to reduce "arm in air" fatigue) and place the keyboard to the side of the iPad (i.e. for painting apps.)
If this happens, I might try using only an iPad as my development machine. All I need are some cloud machines with Docker, SSH and maybe Cloud9/Che in some cases (and a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, of course).
I'd totally rely on my Desktop for any serious work, and use such a mythical iPad as the mobile machine I can use to SSH into servers, VNC into desktop, run simple editors, email etc.
But, I don't think we're going to see that...
But, I don't think we're going to see that...
I’m a developer on Jump Desktop - a Remote Desktop app for iOS which supports 2 specific models of external mice. Along with that it also supports external monitor support with full resolution (not mirroring). Take a look here: https://jumpdesktop.com. If you’re interested in a free copy shoot me an email: [email protected] .
This plus the rumor of USB-C replacing lightning on the iPad - there is supposedly much more external display support in the next iOS beta.
External screens as an extension don't really work without some kind of cursor - iOS already supports mirroring the display so this is likely something new.
External screens as an extension don't really work without some kind of cursor - iOS already supports mirroring the display so this is likely something new.
FWIW, I think the external display support in iOS 12 may be related to the fact that switching to USB-C means that Apple's display adapter no longer works. That display adapter was essentially a tiny computer, so I would imagine there was a lot of logic they could shunt off onto that adapter and not have to implement in iOS, especially since it seemed like they were very resource constrained in terms of iOS engineering for a long time. Now that USB-C obsoletes that display adapter and also natively supports video, they may just be in a position where it makes more sense to do all the work in iOS rather than develop another hardware adapter.
Of course, the optimistic side of me takes this plus Marzipan and comes to the conclusion that they are putting all the pieces in place for iOS to fully support laptop and desktop form factors and work flows.
Fingers crossed.
Of course, the optimistic side of me takes this plus Marzipan and comes to the conclusion that they are putting all the pieces in place for iOS to fully support laptop and desktop form factors and work flows.
Fingers crossed.
Have you though of getting a pen?
No OpenGL in Marzipan.
No OpenGL_ES. And since there are no mac-only APIs yet, that means no OpenGL. But you could do some nasty things to get it at runtime...
Metal is the way to go.