Hajnal line(en.wikipedia.org)
en.wikipedia.org
Hajnal line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
40 comments
The article links to the article on the Western European marriage pattern, which gives as a major explanation the marriage rules instituted by the Roman Catholic church. But weirdly enough, the areas in Western Europe where the pattern does not hold (southern Spain and Italy, Ireland) are deeply Roman Catholic. Does anyone have an explanation for that?
Yes: different times.
These marriage patterns changed sometime long before 1500, maybe circa 1000AD -- so if the church had a hand in it, it's the medieval church.
The places where this pattern was strongest went on to invent Protestant religion, and have now largely moved on from formal church. While the places the present-day Catholic church is strongest are outside this zone... or weren't christian at all in at the relevant time (like Spain, and Mexico).
These marriage patterns changed sometime long before 1500, maybe circa 1000AD -- so if the church had a hand in it, it's the medieval church.
The places where this pattern was strongest went on to invent Protestant religion, and have now largely moved on from formal church. While the places the present-day Catholic church is strongest are outside this zone... or weren't christian at all in at the relevant time (like Spain, and Mexico).
Maybe former Islamic Caliphates.
But if Catholicism plays a role:
a) why is Ireland outside?
b) why is the Non-Catholic part inside?
But if Catholicism plays a role:
a) why is Ireland outside?
b) why is the Non-Catholic part inside?
[deleted]
the stretch of the line along the east baltic i see as a result of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Teutonic_Order . The Teutonic Order east conquest set up a lot of history there that is still being played out almost 800 years later.
It would be interesting to know if footprints of past conquests/empires are the reason for the line not correlating with today's borders. At least the two pockets on the south Iberian Peninsula and as well the southern Apennine Peninsula correlate with former Islamic Caliphates.
I wonder though why Ireland, Austria and Venice would be outside. In some respects all of them played central roles in European history (Ireland in Christianization).
EDIT: Just figured out, the drawing is off. If drawn correctly it would include Vienna and Venice.
I wonder though why Ireland, Austria and Venice would be outside. In some respects all of them played central roles in European history (Ireland in Christianization).
EDIT: Just figured out, the drawing is off. If drawn correctly it would include Vienna and Venice.
Can you elaborate?
If you mean the Teutonic Order's crusade quickening the Christian baptism of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, I'm sceptical. Not that the region becoming part of the Christian Europe isn't important; it's just that it was inevitable anyway. The paper "The Origins of WEIRD Psychology" [0] linked by another comment proposes that this is likely to do with Catholicism. However, I speculate that the East Baltic's (the Baltic states') embrace of Catholicism is evident in the 20th century, not because of the ?-1410 crusade, but because in the 20th century, they experienced severe antagonisation from the atheist USSR, and went full-throttle in the other direction. A bit like how the US alcohol prohibition backfired. Aggressive suppression of religion led to it growing strong roots. Funnily enough, same thing was happening almost a thousand years ago, only reversed. Region resisting Catholicism peddled by Teutons and suppression of the pre-Christian religion. 20th century -- same region fighting to preserve a Catholic identity.
[0] https://psyarxiv.com/d6qhu/
If you mean the Teutonic Order's crusade quickening the Christian baptism of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, I'm sceptical. Not that the region becoming part of the Christian Europe isn't important; it's just that it was inevitable anyway. The paper "The Origins of WEIRD Psychology" [0] linked by another comment proposes that this is likely to do with Catholicism. However, I speculate that the East Baltic's (the Baltic states') embrace of Catholicism is evident in the 20th century, not because of the ?-1410 crusade, but because in the 20th century, they experienced severe antagonisation from the atheist USSR, and went full-throttle in the other direction. A bit like how the US alcohol prohibition backfired. Aggressive suppression of religion led to it growing strong roots. Funnily enough, same thing was happening almost a thousand years ago, only reversed. Region resisting Catholicism peddled by Teutons and suppression of the pre-Christian religion. 20th century -- same region fighting to preserve a Catholic identity.
[0] https://psyarxiv.com/d6qhu/
Is this still true? I’ve read some eastern euoprean countries are suffering from very low birth rates.
Also interesting the US seems to have a sort of fertility zone right down the middle https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/84g2n5/states_and_...
Also interesting the US seems to have a sort of fertility zone right down the middle https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/84g2n5/states_and_...
I don't want to nitpick, but the drawing is a bit off:
The line as it is drawn excludes Venice and Vienna. Correcting that line to actually overlap with St. Petersburg and Trieste gets these epicenters of European culture back "inside".
The line as it is drawn excludes Venice and Vienna. Correcting that line to actually overlap with St. Petersburg and Trieste gets these epicenters of European culture back "inside".
The drawing makes no sense... there's a triple point in the blue boundary, so there are at least three regions, not two. But the article talks about "two sides".
The Hajnal line is in Red. The blue lines highlight other regions, as described in the caption of the image.
I was confused by the diagram as well. And it's only after reading your comment that I discovered there were lines of two different colors!
The figure caption states that the red part is the Hajnal line. The red part has two sides.
In their effort of calling it a line they made it complicated to see. They should've just highlighted the zone or something.
rdl(2)
https://psyarxiv.com/d6qhu/
The Origins of WEIRD Psychology
> Recent research not only confirms the existence of substantial psychological variation around the globe but also highlights the peculiarity of populations that are Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic (WEIRD). We propose that much of this variation arose as people psychologically adapted to differing kin-based institutions—the set of social norms governing descent, marriage, residence and related domains. We further propose that part of the variation in these institutions arose historically from the Catholic Church’s marriage and family policies, which contributed to the dissolution of Europe’s traditional kin-based institutions, leading eventually to the predominance of nuclear families and impersonal institutions. By combining data on 20 psychological outcomes with historical measures of both kinship and Church exposure, we find support for these ideas in a comprehensive array of analyses across countries, among European regions and between individuals with different cultural backgrounds.