Inside the Marriott-Starwood Loyalty Program Turbulence(wsj.com)
wsj.com
Inside the Marriott-Starwood Loyalty Program Turbulence
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the-marriott-starwood-loyalty-program-turbulence-1543416010
72 comments
>Add to this that Marriott's website is one of the worst I have ever used and I just don't see much reason to stick around.
It really is terrible. I tried to book the Mariott in Oakland last night for a conference and it took six attempts to get it working. There was some code on the page for Visa Checkout that didn't seem to have been tested well at all. I ended up having to alter the javascript and delete an element on the page in order to bypass the client-side validation and get the submit button to work correctly.
It really is terrible. I tried to book the Mariott in Oakland last night for a conference and it took six attempts to get it working. There was some code on the page for Visa Checkout that didn't seem to have been tested well at all. I ended up having to alter the javascript and delete an element on the page in order to bypass the client-side validation and get the submit button to work correctly.
Just be careful that their marketing guys don't get wind of that, or they'll rebrand as "Marriott: the choice hotel for true hackers".
1337 hacker conference check-in.
As much as I want to hate this, I was part of this marriott.com fiasco -- Marriott switched from a monolithic, huge, J2EE stack and moved to openshift for container management. The problem? the development teams didn't really and fully understand the concepts behind containers...and internal Marriott staff had limited knowledge of Openshift or how it ran.
They brought in RedHat ProServ to manage the Openshift stuff, my former employer to lead the DevOps group in assisting the dev teams to containerize, and then when I left that team to go somewhere else, tried bringing in a devops shop in Bethesda (and then tried to hire everyone in the company to come work for them).
They brought in RedHat ProServ to manage the Openshift stuff, my former employer to lead the DevOps group in assisting the dev teams to containerize, and then when I left that team to go somewhere else, tried bringing in a devops shop in Bethesda (and then tried to hire everyone in the company to come work for them).
This. In a few years there will be an HBS study about how they killed one of the most most loyal brand followings. I predict it will take a bit to show up in the numbers but over time alienating your vote customer base will absolutely have an outsized business impact.
Spent the last few years maxed out platinum with Marriot. Aside from the snacks I felt like I was treated the same as those with less “status”. If you’re going to have a rewards program with levels of patronage...
The airlines, as much as I hate them, have this much more cut and dry. With United I know exactly what I can get at each tier and what I can ask for “just this one time”.
With Marriot it’s like, “fuck you have a candy bar and bottle of water”.
So I fly United and stay with AirBnb[0]... who I get United miles from. Cha-ching!
0: Get the MilagePlus X app
The airlines, as much as I hate them, have this much more cut and dry. With United I know exactly what I can get at each tier and what I can ask for “just this one time”.
With Marriot it’s like, “fuck you have a candy bar and bottle of water”.
So I fly United and stay with AirBnb[0]... who I get United miles from. Cha-ching!
0: Get the MilagePlus X app
Just downloaded MileagePlus X, how do you use your united miles to book airbnb? not seeing it
Buy and AirBnb gift card in the app for the amount you need. Redeem the gift card in your AirBnb account BEFORE YOU BOOK. Get 2 miles per dollar (or whatever, they all fluctuate). For a while Amazon was two miles per dollar. We shifted all our household shopping into Amazon LOL. They got hip to it and now Amazon is like half a mile per dollar.
That sucks
You can get 2 Chase points for booking travel w/ their Sapphire cards already, and they convert 1:1 to United miles if you want, but are much more fungible too.
You can get 2 Chase points for booking travel w/ their Sapphire cards already, and they convert 1:1 to United miles if you want, but are much more fungible too.
3 UR points per $ with the sapphire reserve
yep, why play these reindeer games with gift cards
some shariah compliant 'debt is bad' logic?
some shariah compliant 'debt is bad' logic?
You used to be able to get Amazon gift cards directly with miles, but it was dropped as a partner a few months ago...
They're saying you earn United miles by booking Airbnb stays through the portal in the app. It's essentially another cashback website that provides miles instead of cash. It probably isn't worth it unless you can easily use United miles.
> with Starwood's upper tier, I was being treated very well
What do you get out of hotel rewards? With airline rewards I can upgrade to first, which is a pretty big deal to be able to do and makes a massive difference to my comfort. What do you get with hotels? A suite instead of a room? Doesn't seem worth it? Free hotel stays for personal use? Do you want to stay in a same corporate business hotels that you are doing a lot for business in your free time as well?
Hilton give me a free bottle of water when I stay. It's not very inspiring.
What do you get out of hotel rewards? With airline rewards I can upgrade to first, which is a pretty big deal to be able to do and makes a massive difference to my comfort. What do you get with hotels? A suite instead of a room? Doesn't seem worth it? Free hotel stays for personal use? Do you want to stay in a same corporate business hotels that you are doing a lot for business in your free time as well?
Hilton give me a free bottle of water when I stay. It's not very inspiring.
> What do you get out of hotel rewards
Starwood in particular
1) used to have great deals for converting points to airline miles,
2) higher tiers earned very generous point multiples, and
3) offered a pay-with-points structure that was exceptionally generous all around--tons of points earned at higher-end properties which went really far at lower-end properties.
In addition, an AMEX Platinum card provided Gold tier membership, and the AMEX Starwood card compounded your point multiples--basically you just kept your Platinum current but paid for everything with the Starwood card. Moochers like me could enjoy many of the same perks as power travelers. For several years I think I spent at least as many free nights at Starwood properties as paid, including several paid vacations with family--it was amazing how far points went at Fourpoint properties in Asia.
Since the Marriott merger the calculus sucks. IIRC Chase Card + Hilton Honors is the best deal now, but nothing will ever be as amazing as the AMEX + Starwood program. I was religious about staying at Starwood properties, even if I had to pay a premium in a particular city. But lately I'm as likely to stay at a Marriott as any other hotel.
Starwood in particular
1) used to have great deals for converting points to airline miles,
2) higher tiers earned very generous point multiples, and
3) offered a pay-with-points structure that was exceptionally generous all around--tons of points earned at higher-end properties which went really far at lower-end properties.
In addition, an AMEX Platinum card provided Gold tier membership, and the AMEX Starwood card compounded your point multiples--basically you just kept your Platinum current but paid for everything with the Starwood card. Moochers like me could enjoy many of the same perks as power travelers. For several years I think I spent at least as many free nights at Starwood properties as paid, including several paid vacations with family--it was amazing how far points went at Fourpoint properties in Asia.
Since the Marriott merger the calculus sucks. IIRC Chase Card + Hilton Honors is the best deal now, but nothing will ever be as amazing as the AMEX + Starwood program. I was religious about staying at Starwood properties, even if I had to pay a premium in a particular city. But lately I'm as likely to stay at a Marriott as any other hotel.
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> Free hotel stays for personal use? Do you want to stay in a same corporate business hotels that you are doing a lot for business in your free time as well?
I take vacations with my mother, who is in a wheelchair, and without specific personal experience to recommend a place it is basically not worth the trouble to stay at a non-corporate hotel. Bathrooms that she can't get into, or most often a shower or bath that she can't use, a step at the entrance to the dining room, charming doorways that are not quite wide enough for a chair - lots of little things that I still barely notice when traveling alone that are capable of making a trip miserable. It's really increased my appreciation for the reliable minimum quality they offer.
I take vacations with my mother, who is in a wheelchair, and without specific personal experience to recommend a place it is basically not worth the trouble to stay at a non-corporate hotel. Bathrooms that she can't get into, or most often a shower or bath that she can't use, a step at the entrance to the dining room, charming doorways that are not quite wide enough for a chair - lots of little things that I still barely notice when traveling alone that are capable of making a trip miserable. It's really increased my appreciation for the reliable minimum quality they offer.
It's especially useful when you run into odd scenarios, since customer service will always go an extra mile. I used to have Diamond with Hilton when worked as consultant.
Once I booked a room for 2, and showed up as 3 people, got upgraded with no problem.
Another time I had my hotel rebooked to a different one after I already showed up - (there was nothing particularly bad with the hotel, but I was new to the city & picked location badly).
Once I booked a room for 2, and showed up as 3 people, got upgraded with no problem.
Another time I had my hotel rebooked to a different one after I already showed up - (there was nothing particularly bad with the hotel, but I was new to the city & picked location badly).
Domestically, not a whole lot. Sometimes the late check-in/out is useful, sometimes you get a slightly nicer room.
Internationally, or at nicer properties I appreciate the lounge. Some hotels have a nice hot breakfast/dinner with booze and beers that's only available to guests with lounge access. It's convenient and cost effective if you are traveling for work and want to save some per diem.
Internationally, or at nicer properties I appreciate the lounge. Some hotels have a nice hot breakfast/dinner with booze and beers that's only available to guests with lounge access. It's convenient and cost effective if you are traveling for work and want to save some per diem.
The suites are nice, especially when my stays were 3+ days.
The biggest benefits for me when it comes to hotel status are:
1) lounge access / free breakfast
2) points for personal hotel stays (though I typically spend my hotel points on flights). I basically pay for my vacations in points.
3) The ambassador with Starwood would basically handle all of my bookings and make sure if there were any issues I was taken care of. Anytime I had a flight cancellation or change of plans, I could shoot them an e-mail or call and know it would get handled.
The biggest benefits for me when it comes to hotel status are:
1) lounge access / free breakfast
2) points for personal hotel stays (though I typically spend my hotel points on flights). I basically pay for my vacations in points.
3) The ambassador with Starwood would basically handle all of my bookings and make sure if there were any issues I was taken care of. Anytime I had a flight cancellation or change of plans, I could shoot them an e-mail or call and know it would get handled.
Hotel rewards are often a little different than airline rewards because they transfer out of the brand's portal. So the main utility is fungibility.
Sure your credit card might let you transfer to a bunch of Star Alliance brands, but once it is in that one brand or you earned that one brands airline points, its stuck there.
Secondly, yes upgrades are possible. It is very random but more frequent with being in certain tiers. Late checkouts, early checkins perhaps. Free stays just because you have points, and earning free stays that don't require the points. Earning points faster because you have a certain level.
The amenities are negligible. Definitely not the point.
And finally, Marriot/Starwood is now a HUUUUUGE portfolio. You wouldn't have to stay in the corporate business hotels.
The redemption rates are also pretty nice and easy.
There are still lots of boutiques, AirBnBs and interesting hotel tonight options, but Marriott/Starwood has a compelling portfolio.
Sure your credit card might let you transfer to a bunch of Star Alliance brands, but once it is in that one brand or you earned that one brands airline points, its stuck there.
Secondly, yes upgrades are possible. It is very random but more frequent with being in certain tiers. Late checkouts, early checkins perhaps. Free stays just because you have points, and earning free stays that don't require the points. Earning points faster because you have a certain level.
The amenities are negligible. Definitely not the point.
And finally, Marriot/Starwood is now a HUUUUUGE portfolio. You wouldn't have to stay in the corporate business hotels.
The redemption rates are also pretty nice and easy.
There are still lots of boutiques, AirBnBs and interesting hotel tonight options, but Marriott/Starwood has a compelling portfolio.
>A suite instead of a room?
Sometimes. Room upgrades in general are a thing. I like it, especially when traveling with my SO - the extra space is nice!
>Do you want to stay in a same corporate business hotels that you are doing a lot for business in your free time as well?
Sure. Starwood and Marriott have a lot of nice hotels. W's are pretty ubiquitous and don't feel very corporate. The Luxury Collection is a bit mixed on whether or not they participate in the rewards program, but enough do that they've got some really cool spots that do, and the LC stuff is all unique. Even for chains that are more corporate feeling, like the Ritz Carlton/JW Marriott/etc, they're frequently very nice. The Westin in Tokyo is convenient for the city-loop JR green line, has a fantastic breakfast buffet and lounge with free drinks and an amazing view, etc.
Generally when I'm traveling personally I don't spend much time in my room. I want something that is conveniently located, has good breakfast, is clean, and spacious enough that I can keep all of my crap out of the way with room to spare. Getting all the points (and multipliers from having status) makes getting free hotel stays a lot easier, and means I can afford to travel more frequently.
>Hilton give me a free bottle of water when I stay.
Same with Starwood/Marriott, but, considering what some hotels charge for water bottles, free bottles being replenished every time housekeeping comes through is great. Especially if I've had a long night out drinking.
There's other perks, too. Early/late checkin - I don't have to worry about if I arrive at the airport at 8am or if my flight is at 7pm. I don't need to rush out of the hotel at 11am, or drop my bags and then have to go kill time if I get in early.
Conversely, I care much less about my Platinum airline status. I only get upgrades to first class on short flights automatically, and I mostly take long ones. Upgrades on long flights consume my upgrade awards. I get free "premium" seats in economy, but they're not huge upgrades and are pretty cheap upgrades in general. Priority boarding is nice, but I see people slip into that line all of the time without status and it's usually more trouble than it's worth for the attendant to kick them to the back of the line. Priority luggage actually getting it to me faster has been very hit or miss. I don't lose any sleep over my airline status looking like it might drop a level. I make sure I never have to worry about that with my hotel status.
Sometimes. Room upgrades in general are a thing. I like it, especially when traveling with my SO - the extra space is nice!
>Do you want to stay in a same corporate business hotels that you are doing a lot for business in your free time as well?
Sure. Starwood and Marriott have a lot of nice hotels. W's are pretty ubiquitous and don't feel very corporate. The Luxury Collection is a bit mixed on whether or not they participate in the rewards program, but enough do that they've got some really cool spots that do, and the LC stuff is all unique. Even for chains that are more corporate feeling, like the Ritz Carlton/JW Marriott/etc, they're frequently very nice. The Westin in Tokyo is convenient for the city-loop JR green line, has a fantastic breakfast buffet and lounge with free drinks and an amazing view, etc.
Generally when I'm traveling personally I don't spend much time in my room. I want something that is conveniently located, has good breakfast, is clean, and spacious enough that I can keep all of my crap out of the way with room to spare. Getting all the points (and multipliers from having status) makes getting free hotel stays a lot easier, and means I can afford to travel more frequently.
>Hilton give me a free bottle of water when I stay.
Same with Starwood/Marriott, but, considering what some hotels charge for water bottles, free bottles being replenished every time housekeeping comes through is great. Especially if I've had a long night out drinking.
There's other perks, too. Early/late checkin - I don't have to worry about if I arrive at the airport at 8am or if my flight is at 7pm. I don't need to rush out of the hotel at 11am, or drop my bags and then have to go kill time if I get in early.
Conversely, I care much less about my Platinum airline status. I only get upgrades to first class on short flights automatically, and I mostly take long ones. Upgrades on long flights consume my upgrade awards. I get free "premium" seats in economy, but they're not huge upgrades and are pretty cheap upgrades in general. Priority boarding is nice, but I see people slip into that line all of the time without status and it's usually more trouble than it's worth for the attendant to kick them to the back of the line. Priority luggage actually getting it to me faster has been very hit or miss. I don't lose any sleep over my airline status looking like it might drop a level. I make sure I never have to worry about that with my hotel status.
I usually travel with my family, so the room upgrades are nice because we could use the extra space. Also, being guaranteed a room anywhere as long as I book 24 hours in advance is a nice perk. And often we get free food.
Even for people who have earned lifetime Platinum Premier status, the suckage of the Marriott takeover is materially encroaching on their experience. The benefits are rapidly being destroyed. For Starwood members, it has not been a positive experience.
On top of their website being horrid, it also routinely says it can't complete a booking
I also really like Hyatt Place as a mid market property - I just wish there were more of them.
Welcome to Marriott.com! Would you like to share your GPS coordinates with us?
Why are you not going thru your ambassador for these issues?
Having worked for both companies in my old career this is unsurprising. Marriott has a history of changing things for the worse.
One great example is when they bought Ritz Carlton. They said they wouldn't change much, and then did a sweeping rebranding (changing a lot of internal verbiage, changing the 20 basics to the 12 service values, etc). A lot of the veterans felt like the brand lost a core part of its identity then.
Starwood's rewards program was award winning and pretty much everyone I knew considered it best in the industry. It's unfortunate that they bought such a great program and can't even integrate it with theirs. It's really sad and I can't imagine them salvaging it.
One great example is when they bought Ritz Carlton. They said they wouldn't change much, and then did a sweeping rebranding (changing a lot of internal verbiage, changing the 20 basics to the 12 service values, etc). A lot of the veterans felt like the brand lost a core part of its identity then.
Starwood's rewards program was award winning and pretty much everyone I knew considered it best in the industry. It's unfortunate that they bought such a great program and can't even integrate it with theirs. It's really sad and I can't imagine them salvaging it.
One data point: I'm a former Marriott loyalist and was Platinum for many years in my 100% travel days. I travel less now, so I was down to just Gold, which was still fine... but when the plans were merged and that became "Gold Elite" (read: the new Silver), they stripped away lounge access: no more free breakfast, no more access to a quiet place to work, have a drink or coffee with a friend, etc.
So now I don't book with Marriott/SPG anymore. Why would I?
So now I don't book with Marriott/SPG anymore. Why would I?
Me too, basically. I had Gold status (30 nights) with lounge access, which was super-useful. Now that got shifted to Platinum (50 nights), Marriott is a much tougher sell.
But there are credit cards that will (as of 2019) give you 15 elite qualifying nights per year so Platinum will be "only" 35 nights... not that much different.
The SPG Gold status was about the last useful benefit I got from Amex platinum though so that card is probably dead to me now.
But there are credit cards that will (as of 2019) give you 15 elite qualifying nights per year so Platinum will be "only" 35 nights... not that much different.
The SPG Gold status was about the last useful benefit I got from Amex platinum though so that card is probably dead to me now.
> I had Gold status (30 nights) with lounge access, which was super-useful. Now that got shifted to Platinum (50 nights)
Marriott seems to be running into the same problem as American airline rewards: counting nights and miles, only, doesn't adequately differentiate between high-spend and low-spend nights and miles. So you have to set the nightly rate such that someone staying at your cheapest property can access perks at the most-expensive property. That, in turn, ends up making the perks less valuable for those who frequent your pricy properties. (This is Gresham's Law [1].)
The loyalty programs should have been kept separate, with the benefit of high-value programs getting credit at low-value ones (but not the other way, at least not at parity).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
Marriott seems to be running into the same problem as American airline rewards: counting nights and miles, only, doesn't adequately differentiate between high-spend and low-spend nights and miles. So you have to set the nightly rate such that someone staying at your cheapest property can access perks at the most-expensive property. That, in turn, ends up making the perks less valuable for those who frequent your pricy properties. (This is Gresham's Law [1].)
The loyalty programs should have been kept separate, with the benefit of high-value programs getting credit at low-value ones (but not the other way, at least not at parity).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
This sounds like a misinterpretation of Gresham's Law. That's specifically talking about currency, which I suppose in this case would be the reward points. There is no "good" vs "bad" version of the currency though. Certain types of points are not driving other types of points out of circulation. The value of the points depends on how you use them, with people more eager to spend points on high-value redemptions.
> There is no "good" vs "bad" version of the currency though. Certain types of points are not driving other types of points out of circulation
Imagine Marriott has two brands: Fairfield Inn and Ritz-Carlton. They each have a rewards program which grants one free night for every night stayed.
Now suppose, in a fit of idiocy, the rewards programs are made cross-compatible. So a Ritz-Carlton reward night can be spent at Fairfield Inn and vice versa. Where do you think the rewards will be earned? Where do you think they'll be spent? The "bad" (Fairfield Inn rewards) drove out the "good" (Ritz-Carlton rewards).
I accentuated the number of brands, magnitude of their value difference and rewards program juiciness. This was to bring into relief the resulting effect. In reality, these terms--and the effect--are smaller. Still, Gresham's law applies if one treats rewards nights earned at different hotels as different currencies. They've simply, now, been brought into a currency union.
Imagine Marriott has two brands: Fairfield Inn and Ritz-Carlton. They each have a rewards program which grants one free night for every night stayed.
Now suppose, in a fit of idiocy, the rewards programs are made cross-compatible. So a Ritz-Carlton reward night can be spent at Fairfield Inn and vice versa. Where do you think the rewards will be earned? Where do you think they'll be spent? The "bad" (Fairfield Inn rewards) drove out the "good" (Ritz-Carlton rewards).
I accentuated the number of brands, magnitude of their value difference and rewards program juiciness. This was to bring into relief the resulting effect. In reality, these terms--and the effect--are smaller. Still, Gresham's law applies if one treats rewards nights earned at different hotels as different currencies. They've simply, now, been brought into a currency union.
The issue I'm having with this comparison is that you are equating the "nights stayed" with the points earned (the more accurate currency).
>They each have a rewards program which grants one free night for every night stayed.
It's a lot more fair to say for every $1000 spent, you have enough points to redeem a free night. In which case, some people might choose to spend more nights at the cheaper Fairfield Inn, and some might choose to stay fewer nights at the luxury Ritz. The bad money is not driving out the good.
It's true when it comes to qualifying nights, people will try to hit elite night requirements at cheaper properties. But that's not driving out the business for higher-end properties. Especially because award redemption is (mostly) based on how much you spend, not how many nights you stay.
>They each have a rewards program which grants one free night for every night stayed.
It's a lot more fair to say for every $1000 spent, you have enough points to redeem a free night. In which case, some people might choose to spend more nights at the cheaper Fairfield Inn, and some might choose to stay fewer nights at the luxury Ritz. The bad money is not driving out the good.
It's true when it comes to qualifying nights, people will try to hit elite night requirements at cheaper properties. But that's not driving out the business for higher-end properties. Especially because award redemption is (mostly) based on how much you spend, not how many nights you stay.
I'm having trouble seeing this as anything new or different.
These rewards programs were based on on nights or stays prior to the merger. SPG had no minimum spend requirements, and was widely considered the best hotel rewards program out there. And SPG had "low-end" properties as well, and there was no differentiator. I could earn all my rewards at an Aloft or Element and redeem them at a W or St. Regis.
If anything, Marriott had a higher quantity of "low-end" hotels and unless I'm significantly misremembering, you could always have earned points at the Fairfield Inn and used them at the Ritz-Carlton.
I don't understand what you think changed with this merger in that regard.
These rewards programs were based on on nights or stays prior to the merger. SPG had no minimum spend requirements, and was widely considered the best hotel rewards program out there. And SPG had "low-end" properties as well, and there was no differentiator. I could earn all my rewards at an Aloft or Element and redeem them at a W or St. Regis.
If anything, Marriott had a higher quantity of "low-end" hotels and unless I'm significantly misremembering, you could always have earned points at the Fairfield Inn and used them at the Ritz-Carlton.
I don't understand what you think changed with this merger in that regard.
Nights and miles are the metric to separate out "high spend" customers, up until you establish a nights/miles metric and you encourage customers to game it...
I can see where he was going with the analogy to Gresham's, but maybe another G's law is a better fit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law
I can see where he was going with the analogy to Gresham's, but maybe another G's law is a better fit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law
I'm a former Marriott guy who came in with quals to get Platinum + Ambassador. I'm not super happy with the transition, specifically the removal of the rollover nights - my stays this year should guarantee my continued participation thru the end of 2020 with the same status, but no longer.
I also feel like I'm competing among too many people now for upgrades. I'm a rare beast with like more than 200 nights on property this year, and well more than 100 last year. I just wish I felt more appreciated by the company.
I also feel like I'm competing among too many people now for upgrades. I'm a rare beast with like more than 200 nights on property this year, and well more than 100 last year. I just wish I felt more appreciated by the company.
Wait, if you were platnium for many years, you should be a lifetime platnium under the new program? I am just shy of LT plat and have LT gold, which is basically useless.
Funny, I've been unable to get credit for any of my stays Marriott hotels in the last year. I rarely stay in Marriott/Starwood, so I assumed that my loyalty account had just expired or otherwise gotten in to a bad state even though I could still log in to the account online. I don't stay in hotels enough to get to higher rewards tiers so I just wrote it off. This likely explains all my failed attempts to accrue nights...
At least you could log in. After I merged my Mariott and SPG accounts, trying to log in to either one is met with a "You have already merged this account" error.
You are not alone with this issue. People are even having a hard time getting stays credited that they booked logged into the correct account (which should credit without issue).
I guess I'm one of the odd people out that hasn't had a real problem with the merger. I'm only a Platinum member, so I can't speak to perks at highest levels, but I've had no problem getting ahold of regular Platinum customer service. I've also had no trouble getting room upgrades (I've ALWAYS had to ask for them, despite the claims of 'automatic' upgrades), no trouble getting early/late checkout, still get treated by staff like they care about me as someone with an upper tier loyalty status, etc. No technical issues, and all of my stays have recorded just fine (knock on wood!).
On top of the status perks being the same, I'm loving the increased availability of hotels. There's been times where I've wanted to book at a specific Starwood property, but because it's rates were way higher than they normally are (e.g. 220/night to nearly 500/night), I'd end up fairly downmarket in comparison because I don't want any pushback on my expense report. The addition of Marriott properties has solved that for me a couple of times already this year - the W or St. Regis is way up, but the Ritz-Carlton or JW Marriott have been reasonable.
I will say I have found the lounges in Marriott properties to be a little less nice than their Starwood compatriots, however.
On top of the status perks being the same, I'm loving the increased availability of hotels. There's been times where I've wanted to book at a specific Starwood property, but because it's rates were way higher than they normally are (e.g. 220/night to nearly 500/night), I'd end up fairly downmarket in comparison because I don't want any pushback on my expense report. The addition of Marriott properties has solved that for me a couple of times already this year - the W or St. Regis is way up, but the Ritz-Carlton or JW Marriott have been reasonable.
I will say I have found the lounges in Marriott properties to be a little less nice than their Starwood compatriots, however.
Same!
For what it's worth, I do +/- 50 days a year and haven't noticed anything aside from the migration process being clumsy from a website UX perspective.
I never gave a sh about worthless hotel rewards inviting you to stick with their brand, pay more and sacrifice more important reasons for questionable (always in a future) benefits.
I choose hotel for proximity or convenience to my destination, or cost.
Hence this loyalty turbulence is largely a non-event for me.
I never played hotel currency games and when their values goes down - it does not affect my decision to stay at that hotel or at their competition next door.
I choose hotel for proximity or convenience to my destination, or cost.
Hence this loyalty turbulence is largely a non-event for me.
I never played hotel currency games and when their values goes down - it does not affect my decision to stay at that hotel or at their competition next door.
I've been SPG platinum for the last 6 years and am also lifetime gold. The big pain point for me is that you can no longer qualify by stays OR nights. I don't travel quite enough to meet the platinum qualification by nights but always did with stays. Given that I have no chance of requalifying for platinum next year I'll be shifting my spend to other brands to see how they treat their frequent guests.
The Starwood Amex is going from 5 qualifying night credit to 15 qualifying night credit next year. It might be enough to get me plat premier some years, so I'm excited about that.
Would the extra 10 nights on it help you get regular Plat on nights vs. stays?
Would the extra 10 nights on it help you get regular Plat on nights vs. stays?
Unfortunately no as the plat night requirement also bumped up to 75 from 50. I'm a big Kimpton fan so now that IHG bought them I shifted enough of my travel this year to IHG to qualify for Spire Elite. I doubt the treatment will be as good as SPG Plat but we shall see.
Platinum is still 50 nights, and has basically all the same perks. You do go from 10 suite night awards to 5 suite night awards
The 75 night tier gets you your additional 5 awards back, and bumps you up to 75% point bonus.
The 75 night tier gets you your additional 5 awards back, and bumps you up to 75% point bonus.
Loved the old SPG. By far the best perk was getting 1 point per dollar, then being able to transfer that to almost every airline. American was 20K points for 25K miles. International Business class tickets would be around 120K miles round trip, so $100K spend for $5K plane tickets (5% return). Back in the day american used to count all miles towards the 2M mile club (lifetime platinum), so I was able enter it mainly using credit card earned miles.
Hotel stays were often times 12K points for a $400/night hotel in maui (3.3% return).
When they converted SPG to marriott they did it at a 1spg:3marriott conversion rate, but ongoing only earns at a $1:2 point rate. The card is a significantly worse value.
Hotel stays were often times 12K points for a $400/night hotel in maui (3.3% return).
When they converted SPG to marriott they did it at a 1spg:3marriott conversion rate, but ongoing only earns at a $1:2 point rate. The card is a significantly worse value.
Then, question for all the readers: what's the best loyalty program now, for someone who doesn't travel too much? (50 nights/year).
I recently tried to transfer miles from Marriott to another airline.
What a nightmare. The miles apparently got "lost". I had to make many phone calls which meant being on hold for 30 minutes each time.
Wasted probably a full work day trying to sort everything out with them.
Eventually, I just gave up as I didn't want to waste more time with this company.
About 5 weeks later my miles appeared in the airline account. Very frustrating experience.
What a nightmare. The miles apparently got "lost". I had to make many phone calls which meant being on hold for 30 minutes each time.
Wasted probably a full work day trying to sort everything out with them.
Eventually, I just gave up as I didn't want to waste more time with this company.
About 5 weeks later my miles appeared in the airline account. Very frustrating experience.
Because of stuffups I now have three Marriott account I can't merge. Nightmare of lemon scented towel proportions except for the moment of discretionary payback: choice of hotel. Vote with your feet people.
And then there's this: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/30/starwood-hotels-says-500-m...
Tl;dr: 500m guest records stolen from Starwood in data breach
Tl;dr: 500m guest records stolen from Starwood in data breach
Most involved data conversion and software bugs.
I tried to book a haircut using my barber’s new online reservation thing. Of course it was all fucked up.
Everything’s fucked up and no one cares. I wonder what it will take to change the mentality around quality/testing in these companies.
I tried to book a haircut using my barber’s new online reservation thing. Of course it was all fucked up.
Everything’s fucked up and no one cares. I wonder what it will take to change the mentality around quality/testing in these companies.
Most businesses just don't seem to respect good/working tech. Even though it's often critical to their bottom line, they'll think "$5,000?! My idiot nephew could do it for $100. Those coder monkeys think what they do is soooo hard as to charge $5,000?? Ha! Look, this guy here says he can do it for $250." <1 year later> "I hate tech and every techie. They think they're god's gift to humanity. My system never works. I paid good money for it" ($250). I think the corporate equivalent to that is, "It costs what?! Outsource it overseas right now!"
I don’t believe this is exactly right: the major problem is most businesses can’t distinguish which techies are worth $250 or $5,000 up front. So they make the choice of going cheap and hoping it works out.
Some of the few do go the premium route, and still end up in a project failure or overrun. So can you fault them?
You're right, but I think the general disdain for tech/techies is upstream of their inability to distinguish. Though it's a huge, huge problem trying to identify who/what is worth it and who/what isn't.
Marriott did outsource their development of the migrated SPG+MI marriott.com.
and then there's the "consulting" firms that will charge you the premium 5000 then turn around and outsource for 250.
...or for $150.
Yeah my barber has a shitty online reservation thing too. In that case, it’s that their JavaScript nonsense craps out if it can’t load Facebook. Since I block things like third party Facebook scripts, it never loads. I can manually use the JavaScript console to get past it and it works fine.
Since the merger, I have barely stayed at Starwood/Marriott and don't plan on giving much business to them next year.
I typically stay at hotels 150-200 nights a year and with Starwood's upper tier, I was being treated very well and never had issues getting an agent on the phone for changes. Now, at the same level (Platinum Premier w/Ambassador), I have found myself spending more time waiting to talk to an agent and basic requests going unfulfilled.
Add to this that Marriott's website is one of the worst I have ever used and I just don't see much reason to stick around.