Ask HN: Does the prestige of a PhD matter for getting a quant position?
I'm admitted to a few PhD programs to do research in statistical machine learning.
As a backup option in case academia doesn't work out, I think quant trading/modeling/research would appeal to me (I've enjoyed learning about stochastic processes/martingales from my prob class). I'm currently torn between Johns Hopkins and UC Irvine, if that makes any difference.
6 comments
If you want to know for real in a way that’s relevant to your life just try and apply for a few quant positions right now with what you have. Chase for feedback and investigate for yourself whether your education level was a factor. This will take you very little time and give you intel worth a damn.
In considering phd you need to think about the market as it’s likely to be in 3 years time rather than as it is now. In my opinion, the level of qualification for quant jobs will decrease with demand so if your talking about ML applied to industry then a PhD is a poor future investment unless you’re a beast amongst beasts. As another poster said a masters is a much better optimisation for time spent vs salary and it’s also likely where most jobs preferring phds today will be at in terms of requirements in 3 years time.
In considering phd you need to think about the market as it’s likely to be in 3 years time rather than as it is now. In my opinion, the level of qualification for quant jobs will decrease with demand so if your talking about ML applied to industry then a PhD is a poor future investment unless you’re a beast amongst beasts. As another poster said a masters is a much better optimisation for time spent vs salary and it’s also likely where most jobs preferring phds today will be at in terms of requirements in 3 years time.
Earning a PhD is though, and can be very hard, depending on your advisor. But even if you've managed to finish it, you face a relentless fight for permanent positions, which according to the statistics, you're going to loose.
Once you've dropped out of academia, the prestige of the PhD will matter for nothing. What could maybe matter, are some skills/contacts which you hopefully acquired during your PhD studies. But whether this justifies doing a PhD is IMO questionable. A topic in statistical machine learning sounds good. But then again, I did my PhD in pure math, and would not have a problem getting a quant position.
If you don't manage to finish your PhD, which is quite possible, you certainly don't have any prestige, and you will in addition face the pain of failure, which can be huge in that context.
In short, don't underestimate the task of doing a PhD, and don't overestimate the impact of having one.
Once you've dropped out of academia, the prestige of the PhD will matter for nothing. What could maybe matter, are some skills/contacts which you hopefully acquired during your PhD studies. But whether this justifies doing a PhD is IMO questionable. A topic in statistical machine learning sounds good. But then again, I did my PhD in pure math, and would not have a problem getting a quant position.
If you don't manage to finish your PhD, which is quite possible, you certainly don't have any prestige, and you will in addition face the pain of failure, which can be huge in that context.
In short, don't underestimate the task of doing a PhD, and don't overestimate the impact of having one.
On the other hand, my PhD was one of the most rewarding times in my life. I was independent, I worked on fascinating problems, and I had the time to learn about topics at a very deep/expert level. I am proud to have extended the range of human knowledge in a minor way.
> Once you've dropped out of academia, the prestige of the PhD will matter for nothing.
I don't agree. I work at a large industry research lab, and every position basically requires a doctorate.
I had some sloppy bad habits and a PhD helped me overcome them. It also taught me skills that I'm finding invaluable in industry (autonomy, project management, full stack programming, etc.)
But as the parent said, doctoral programs have high drop out rates (it's like Navy SEAL BUD/S in some cases) and it is almost certainly not about the money: a masters is likely the sweet spot for most technical degrees if you want the best price/Salary optimization.
More to OP's point, I was offered several Quant positions after my PhD and had no trouble getting interviews. I don't this the particular program matters very much. My doctorate was from UT:Austin.
> Once you've dropped out of academia, the prestige of the PhD will matter for nothing.
I don't agree. I work at a large industry research lab, and every position basically requires a doctorate.
I had some sloppy bad habits and a PhD helped me overcome them. It also taught me skills that I'm finding invaluable in industry (autonomy, project management, full stack programming, etc.)
But as the parent said, doctoral programs have high drop out rates (it's like Navy SEAL BUD/S in some cases) and it is almost certainly not about the money: a masters is likely the sweet spot for most technical degrees if you want the best price/Salary optimization.
More to OP's point, I was offered several Quant positions after my PhD and had no trouble getting interviews. I don't this the particular program matters very much. My doctorate was from UT:Austin.
I agree, doing a PhD can still be worthwhile. It's just a considerable gamble in my opinion.
> I don't agree. I work at a large industry research lab, and every position basically requires a doctorate.
I should have been more precise. If you want to do research outside of academia, you will need one obviously. Also, it depends on your field and your location. For instance in Germany, doing a PhD is mandatory if you're wanting to pursue a career as a chemist. On the other hand, having a PhD in humanities will significantly worsen your job prospects outside academia in Germany.
> I don't agree. I work at a large industry research lab, and every position basically requires a doctorate.
I should have been more precise. If you want to do research outside of academia, you will need one obviously. Also, it depends on your field and your location. For instance in Germany, doing a PhD is mandatory if you're wanting to pursue a career as a chemist. On the other hand, having a PhD in humanities will significantly worsen your job prospects outside academia in Germany.
Thanks for your input. I think I have a pretty good idea what a PhD entails (I've been doing basically full-time research at my school for 2 years now), and am going in because I want to learn more about the topic (and also end up doing IMO more interesting work than say purely software development).
I was asking because I heard about the idea of "target schools" and how academic pedigree matters in certain parts of finance (e.g., IB), and wonder if this also applies to more technical positions.
May I ask you what gave you the confidence to say you "would not have a problem getting a quant position"?
I was asking because I heard about the idea of "target schools" and how academic pedigree matters in certain parts of finance (e.g., IB), and wonder if this also applies to more technical positions.
May I ask you what gave you the confidence to say you "would not have a problem getting a quant position"?
> May I ask you what gave you the confidence to say you "would not have a problem getting a quant position"?
A lot of contacts , some of them I could activate at any time. For instance, one of the first students of my advisor owns a fintech company today. He actually offered me a job some time ago. One guy I shared my office with started his own fintech startup during his PhD. Basically 10-20% of my alumni hold a quant position, with or without having a PhD. It's seems to be a common career path in Germany for mathematicians.
A lot of contacts , some of them I could activate at any time. For instance, one of the first students of my advisor owns a fintech company today. He actually offered me a job some time ago. One guy I shared my office with started his own fintech startup during his PhD. Basically 10-20% of my alumni hold a quant position, with or without having a PhD. It's seems to be a common career path in Germany for mathematicians.