I just lost my fifth job in six years
43 comments
My suggestion is to get a per hour freelance job and only take on 20 hrs per week. I found such work on odesk.com though its a crap shoot as you're having to justify value vs $2 an hour foreign workers. Still, the point stands: freelance for fewer hours per week, giving you flexibility during episodes and more personal time to work against your symptoms.
Also, exercise and cold showers can help alleviate your symptoms:
http://www.medicaldaily.com/benefits-cold-showers-7-reasons-...
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/exercise-depression http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/exercise-and-dep...
Also, exercise and cold showers can help alleviate your symptoms:
http://www.medicaldaily.com/benefits-cold-showers-7-reasons-...
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/exercise-depression http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/exercise-and-dep...
First, I'm genuinely sorry to hear you lost your job. I know how demoralizing that can be, especially when you add depression to the equation.
I, too, have severe clinical depression. On average, it manifests three times a year for approximately six weeks at a time. It's cost me at least one job in the past, and I know I've quit several on account of "not being able to take it anymore." I'm in the middle of an episode as we speak, trying desperately to hold down a SWE gig at a large Bay Area internet company. My fingers are crossed, as it's performance review season.
I don't have a solution to our mutual problem, but please remember you're not alone.
I, too, have severe clinical depression. On average, it manifests three times a year for approximately six weeks at a time. It's cost me at least one job in the past, and I know I've quit several on account of "not being able to take it anymore." I'm in the middle of an episode as we speak, trying desperately to hold down a SWE gig at a large Bay Area internet company. My fingers are crossed, as it's performance review season.
I don't have a solution to our mutual problem, but please remember you're not alone.
I think my advice would be trying to find something part-time to pay the bills, and then shop around with your other time, in totally different arenas.
Try working on a farm, try fixing cars (maybe some you bought yourself), try buying & selling on craigslist, whatever floats your boat. I'd lean towards jobs that put you outside and aren't totally miserable.
Anyway, you might find you'd rather do something else, and scratch your programming itch part time, or with a lifestyle business project, or whatever.
FWIW I'm feeling & often performing similarly (without depression), and I have plans to do more-or-less what I've outlined here. I've bought a property in a fairly remote location (but with internet) and I'm going to spend as much time as possible working on other things, outside, and getting away from this screen. I expect it to help--it has in the past.
Try working on a farm, try fixing cars (maybe some you bought yourself), try buying & selling on craigslist, whatever floats your boat. I'd lean towards jobs that put you outside and aren't totally miserable.
Anyway, you might find you'd rather do something else, and scratch your programming itch part time, or with a lifestyle business project, or whatever.
FWIW I'm feeling & often performing similarly (without depression), and I have plans to do more-or-less what I've outlined here. I've bought a property in a fairly remote location (but with internet) and I'm going to spend as much time as possible working on other things, outside, and getting away from this screen. I expect it to help--it has in the past.
While I realize you have tried a lot of medications and are probably not feeling the energy to try more, I think you need a better psychiatrist and/or medications.
Also, knowing someone with a less-common variant of bipolar disorder which doesn't tend to cause manic episodes, I would suggest that it is possible that your diagnosis of clinical depression could be incorrect.
I am not a medical professional -- merely offering these comments as someone who has realized that it is not merely the case that people with mental illness should be able to survive them, but that they should be helped to find ways to actually suffer less -- something our society tends not to emphasize, instead telling people to find ways to work through whatever discomfort they are having.
Also, knowing someone with a less-common variant of bipolar disorder which doesn't tend to cause manic episodes, I would suggest that it is possible that your diagnosis of clinical depression could be incorrect.
I am not a medical professional -- merely offering these comments as someone who has realized that it is not merely the case that people with mental illness should be able to survive them, but that they should be helped to find ways to actually suffer less -- something our society tends not to emphasize, instead telling people to find ways to work through whatever discomfort they are having.
Two years ago I gave up a very promising career in IT, after 8 years in I was in place to start making over 6 figures for the first time in my life... but I wasn't happy. I had money, things, tons of friends, could easily meet women (because of those friends, & money)... and I gave it all up. I sold all of my shit, gave away a ton or donated it to charity, what ever. Got rid of all of it. Then I rolled around to a few cities finally coming to a stop in Chicago, where I took up a position as a bike courier for a local company. I haven't been as happy since I was a messenger/bartender in the 90's.
I don't know the root cause of your depression. I do know that shaking things up can really make you look deeper into yourself, & find what your happiness is.
Also, I do find that when I am more physically active I tend to be more in tune with my emotions. I ride my bike for work, & usually put in about 30-40 miles a day working. The time I spend on my bike gives me a lot of time to talk to myself, & center my thoughts/emotions.
I agree with the others that have said move away from San Fran. Of all of the cities in the world, that is the absolute last place I would want to live. The yard stick that you measure yourself with, and other measure you with is about 10 feet too long in that overly entitled cesspool.
Good luck brother!
I don't know the root cause of your depression. I do know that shaking things up can really make you look deeper into yourself, & find what your happiness is.
Also, I do find that when I am more physically active I tend to be more in tune with my emotions. I ride my bike for work, & usually put in about 30-40 miles a day working. The time I spend on my bike gives me a lot of time to talk to myself, & center my thoughts/emotions.
I agree with the others that have said move away from San Fran. Of all of the cities in the world, that is the absolute last place I would want to live. The yard stick that you measure yourself with, and other measure you with is about 10 feet too long in that overly entitled cesspool.
Good luck brother!
I would love to echo that point. Living in SF is depressing because you're stuck with a hard choice:
1. Live in a nice place or 2. Have money to do things in your free time
If you choose 1. you sit in your nice home alone and bored if you choose 2. you have to either have the mental fortitude to deal with cramped quarters, loud smelly neighbors, the tenderloin, OR ride the train for 2-3 hours daily (live in the surrounding area).
Maybe live in portland? Seemed like a nice healthy place, albeit the weather may exacerbate your conditions.
1. Live in a nice place or 2. Have money to do things in your free time
If you choose 1. you sit in your nice home alone and bored if you choose 2. you have to either have the mental fortitude to deal with cramped quarters, loud smelly neighbors, the tenderloin, OR ride the train for 2-3 hours daily (live in the surrounding area).
Maybe live in portland? Seemed like a nice healthy place, albeit the weather may exacerbate your conditions.
I'm not aware of jobs where you can not work a week -- and keep your job.
That being said, you sound like programming is your only employment avenue. I dunno think waaaaaaay outta the box for things more Social or Outgoing. Eg, maybe look into being a social worker, a county park ranger (like a city park, not necessarily Yosemite ...). These types of jobs are either people/interaction heave (social worker) or very soothing, open environments (like parks).
Being a programmer myself, and not with a team I can understand the stress and individualness of programmer can get 1 down.
As an example my god-mothers daughter used to work for Non-Profits overseas making alot of money. She married someone and now (barely) pays for rent in SF and they both teach Yoga ..... so that's what I mean when I say think outside the box. Life is full of ups and downs, even that 1 week of ickyness doesnt sound like all-time-consuming in the great scheme of a say 1 year ...
Or look for a type of job that isn't year round, eg, oil-rig worker ... or Antartic science research outpost maintenance (eg, you can do IT in remote ass research installations and make bank for 4 months couped up in a hole) ... but then you have the rest of the year to chill.
It's the world -- it's full of options. We need only find them.
That being said, you sound like programming is your only employment avenue. I dunno think waaaaaaay outta the box for things more Social or Outgoing. Eg, maybe look into being a social worker, a county park ranger (like a city park, not necessarily Yosemite ...). These types of jobs are either people/interaction heave (social worker) or very soothing, open environments (like parks).
Being a programmer myself, and not with a team I can understand the stress and individualness of programmer can get 1 down.
As an example my god-mothers daughter used to work for Non-Profits overseas making alot of money. She married someone and now (barely) pays for rent in SF and they both teach Yoga ..... so that's what I mean when I say think outside the box. Life is full of ups and downs, even that 1 week of ickyness doesnt sound like all-time-consuming in the great scheme of a say 1 year ...
Or look for a type of job that isn't year round, eg, oil-rig worker ... or Antartic science research outpost maintenance (eg, you can do IT in remote ass research installations and make bank for 4 months couped up in a hole) ... but then you have the rest of the year to chill.
It's the world -- it's full of options. We need only find them.
"I'm not aware of jobs where you can not work a week -- and keep your job."
There are actually jobs like this provided by compassionate caring employers. You just have to keep looking until you find one.
At my most recent position, I was out for a full week for health reasons on 3 separate occasions in a 1-year period with no problems.
There are actually jobs like this provided by compassionate caring employers. You just have to keep looking until you find one.
At my most recent position, I was out for a full week for health reasons on 3 separate occasions in a 1-year period with no problems.
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Most of the things you need to do, to fix something like this are tangential, and have nothing to do with your job, else you would have found a job that fits you.
You didn't mention anything about your social life, or if you are married or not. If you don't have at least one of those, it is very likely you would suffer some level of depression.
Since social skills take time, here are somethings you could do: - Go to gym - Care for cause or somebody or something, something that takes focus away from yourself. Like raising a garden or getting a dog, or joining a meetup for like minded people doing things that matter
And slowly build a social circle for the long term.
You didn't mention anything about your social life, or if you are married or not. If you don't have at least one of those, it is very likely you would suffer some level of depression.
Since social skills take time, here are somethings you could do: - Go to gym - Care for cause or somebody or something, something that takes focus away from yourself. Like raising a garden or getting a dog, or joining a meetup for like minded people doing things that matter
And slowly build a social circle for the long term.
Imagine you are happy. What are you doing, where are you, who are you with?
> Is there any kind of a career that you know of that I might still succeed in? Something where a week here and there of being stuck in I-fucking-want-to-curl-up-and-cry mode isn't a deal breaker?
Academia.
I would also add though that from reading this - read it back to yourself - maybe you don't really love programming - or at least being a programmer at big corporations. Maybe you haven't yet found what you really love? It sounds like you're <40, so the good news is you still have plenty of time to find what you love.
Academia.
I would also add though that from reading this - read it back to yourself - maybe you don't really love programming - or at least being a programmer at big corporations. Maybe you haven't yet found what you really love? It sounds like you're <40, so the good news is you still have plenty of time to find what you love.
>Academia.
Do you mean as staff or as a tenured professor? Otherwise this is not true at the different universities I've worked for. Staff still file for time off in a unified HR system. Staff have to file with FMLA or whatever when those situations come up. The submitter would be ordered to a joint meeting with an HR staffer and their direct report. Both will repeat over and over again they want to help and then send the employee to the Employee Assistance Program that various colleges have, etc. It is absolutely not a place you could just take off for a week. Even if your boss was cool (most are, it is academia) the CPAs and HRs in the other buildings aren't as cool.
Do you mean as staff or as a tenured professor? Otherwise this is not true at the different universities I've worked for. Staff still file for time off in a unified HR system. Staff have to file with FMLA or whatever when those situations come up. The submitter would be ordered to a joint meeting with an HR staffer and their direct report. Both will repeat over and over again they want to help and then send the employee to the Employee Assistance Program that various colleges have, etc. It is absolutely not a place you could just take off for a week. Even if your boss was cool (most are, it is academia) the CPAs and HRs in the other buildings aren't as cool.
Academia is far more cutthroat and stressful than programming. It is not even close.
Coming to industry after being in academia was like being on permanent vacation.
One thing I would recommend: Try a programming job outside the Valley, preferably somewhere where tangible goods are produced. It doesn't have to be outside the technology industry, technology companies are not limited to Internet startups. Big oil, the automotive industry, defense and aerospace, these are all industries whose primary business is the development of technology.
And even "non-technical" companies like Walmart have demonstrated a lot more technical prowess than the average trendy startup, and my guess is that the hours are very reasonable.
Coming to industry after being in academia was like being on permanent vacation.
One thing I would recommend: Try a programming job outside the Valley, preferably somewhere where tangible goods are produced. It doesn't have to be outside the technology industry, technology companies are not limited to Internet startups. Big oil, the automotive industry, defense and aerospace, these are all industries whose primary business is the development of technology.
And even "non-technical" companies like Walmart have demonstrated a lot more technical prowess than the average trendy startup, and my guess is that the hours are very reasonable.
Of course your experience is as anecdotal as mine - I find academia much more forgiving than startup land/corporate land. It's also worth noting that academia is a broad term with many different professions encompassed within it.
This is probably not going to be a very popular reply, but I'll say it anyway on the off-chance it'll help you: get out of the Bay Area. You don't need to live in San Francisco to be a professional software engineer. I lived there for three months, and at the end, I wanted to jump off of a fucking building. I know that many people consider it to be a great place to live (albeit expensive), but it's just not for me.
If I had to make a recommendation, I'd say go stay for a few months in Joseph, OR. It's a very small town (you can walk the entire length of it in a very short amount of time) surrounded by a lot of nature. You may remember it from a Kickstarter campaign from not too long ago: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/708553749/the-jennings-...
In any case, you can get away from big city life, work remotely (perhaps as a contractor? If you want, email me a resume and I'll pass along any contracting gigs that fit your skillset. I don't do any work on the side anymore, so it's good to have people that I can pass work to), enjoy nature (see http://bit.ly/1Kbk2BB and http://bit.ly/1MRBTw7), and get your depression under control. An added bonus is that it's very cheap to live in Joseph, especially compared to San Francisco: http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/joseph_or/san_franc...
In terms of medical facilities, Joseph has very little. There's a psychiatrist about 1.5 hours away in La Grande, though, and being a small town, a lot of people make that trip once/wk, and they love splitting the cost with somebody that's going the same way.
It's really a different lifestyle to live in a small town where it's not socially unacceptable to strike up a conversation with somebody on the street and where helping one another is a common thing. The Bay Area was almost the exact opposite, and I could totally see why you'd be depressed living there.
If I had to make a recommendation, I'd say go stay for a few months in Joseph, OR. It's a very small town (you can walk the entire length of it in a very short amount of time) surrounded by a lot of nature. You may remember it from a Kickstarter campaign from not too long ago: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/708553749/the-jennings-...
In any case, you can get away from big city life, work remotely (perhaps as a contractor? If you want, email me a resume and I'll pass along any contracting gigs that fit your skillset. I don't do any work on the side anymore, so it's good to have people that I can pass work to), enjoy nature (see http://bit.ly/1Kbk2BB and http://bit.ly/1MRBTw7), and get your depression under control. An added bonus is that it's very cheap to live in Joseph, especially compared to San Francisco: http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/joseph_or/san_franc...
In terms of medical facilities, Joseph has very little. There's a psychiatrist about 1.5 hours away in La Grande, though, and being a small town, a lot of people make that trip once/wk, and they love splitting the cost with somebody that's going the same way.
It's really a different lifestyle to live in a small town where it's not socially unacceptable to strike up a conversation with somebody on the street and where helping one another is a common thing. The Bay Area was almost the exact opposite, and I could totally see why you'd be depressed living there.
Note also that there is a bus that can shuttle you back and forth between La Grande and Joseph, if you're so inclined: http://www.neotransit.org/wallowa/wallowa-link-intercity
Keep working, staying focused is its own flavor of therapy. Take a leave of absence here and there and you'll be able to retain your position while you take time to recharge yourself worth.
Being a developer affords you benefits that you can't get from the service industry. If you can stomach it, work from home where you have more personal control over your time, tons of opportunity out there to do that.
Or try writing about your struggles and self publish. Keep your head up.
Being a developer affords you benefits that you can't get from the service industry. If you can stomach it, work from home where you have more personal control over your time, tons of opportunity out there to do that.
Or try writing about your struggles and self publish. Keep your head up.
I've suffered in a similar way for over 40 years. Like you, I tried psychologists and psychiatrists, meds and meditation, all of which had varying success. Mostly I ended up with the same black dog following me around -- sometimes father away and sometimes closer, but always there. My life is a litany of jobs I quit, never again to talk to any of my co-workers, and jobs that were ended for me; lost friends and friends never made. Sadness at missing out on what might have been, and living in fear of the bottom suddenly dropping out.
Fat and out of shape, I started swimming. It was horrible, awful, painful, miserable. I sucked at swimming. The water was cold, I hated the people I had to talk to, I got athlete's foot and ear infections. Actually going to the pool took every bit of willpower I could muster. Many days I thought "why bother? I don't want to live anymore, anyway."
But I made myself go. Gritted my teeth and went. First 10 minutes a day, 3 days a week. Then 15. Then 30. Then 4 days a week. Then 60 minutes. Then 5 days a week. I never thought about it helping with my sometimes crushing depression, but I knew that my obesity was hurting my back and my heart, so I kept going.
It's been 18 months. I've lost 50 lbs of fat and gained muscle. My back is better, my blood pressure is down and can walk up the stairs without huffing and puffing.
Sure enough, I still see the black dog around every once in a while, but less often. I'm starting to enjoy my job, frustrating as it is -- something about the rhythm of getting up, going to the pool and then going to work. Now that I feel like I'm getting good at swimming, it's an incentive to keep going and a virtuous circle. And the bonus is I can eat what I want without stressing about my blood pressure and my weight.
This may or may not be the approach for you, but I strongly feel that there's are 2 things at work: fitness, and becoming good at something.
Make no mistake, I'm no super swimmer, but I'm good for me. You may think you can never be good at anything, but trust me, it's possible to get very good at something you choose to do. Patient persistence, even when it hurts, will pay off.
Caveat: this is not an instant cure. It takes time and effort that I know you feel you can't muster right now. Take small steps and make yourself do it. Grit your teeth and get out of bed even when you feel you can't, and just go exercise, particularly doing something at which you can build skill, even if it's for only 5 or 10 minutes. It might take 6 months, it might take 2 years, but DON'T QUIT!!
You can do it!
And it will work.
Fat and out of shape, I started swimming. It was horrible, awful, painful, miserable. I sucked at swimming. The water was cold, I hated the people I had to talk to, I got athlete's foot and ear infections. Actually going to the pool took every bit of willpower I could muster. Many days I thought "why bother? I don't want to live anymore, anyway."
But I made myself go. Gritted my teeth and went. First 10 minutes a day, 3 days a week. Then 15. Then 30. Then 4 days a week. Then 60 minutes. Then 5 days a week. I never thought about it helping with my sometimes crushing depression, but I knew that my obesity was hurting my back and my heart, so I kept going.
It's been 18 months. I've lost 50 lbs of fat and gained muscle. My back is better, my blood pressure is down and can walk up the stairs without huffing and puffing.
Sure enough, I still see the black dog around every once in a while, but less often. I'm starting to enjoy my job, frustrating as it is -- something about the rhythm of getting up, going to the pool and then going to work. Now that I feel like I'm getting good at swimming, it's an incentive to keep going and a virtuous circle. And the bonus is I can eat what I want without stressing about my blood pressure and my weight.
This may or may not be the approach for you, but I strongly feel that there's are 2 things at work: fitness, and becoming good at something.
Make no mistake, I'm no super swimmer, but I'm good for me. You may think you can never be good at anything, but trust me, it's possible to get very good at something you choose to do. Patient persistence, even when it hurts, will pay off.
Caveat: this is not an instant cure. It takes time and effort that I know you feel you can't muster right now. Take small steps and make yourself do it. Grit your teeth and get out of bed even when you feel you can't, and just go exercise, particularly doing something at which you can build skill, even if it's for only 5 or 10 minutes. It might take 6 months, it might take 2 years, but DON'T QUIT!!
You can do it!
And it will work.
It isn't just fitness that helps, but movement.
Movement and sunlight are fundamental nutrients for the human body.
Movement and sunlight are fundamental nutrients for the human body.
What a great comment. I'm actually trying to learn a new skill that's intimidatingly hard for me, and I kept a link to this comment to remind myself in the hard times that it will be worth it in the end.
I am sorry to hear your struggle. I have friends who were depressed and I understand suicidal thoughts are in your mind.
Here are how my friends dealt with his depression: they have 1 day a week to do what they want to do alone: surf or run. I honestly do not understand depression, but accordingly to my friends, it is a moment when they do not need to give a fuck to anything, embracing into the nature really helps them to relax and the results are that they have felt less depressed and I can really tell their difference.
One thing I also noticed, is that they also consciously try to be positive. I recently read a few books about our own subconsciousness (e.g. power beyond your subconscious mind, Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior, etc.) and it seems like once you "tried to be", you will start to behave the way your mind told you to. And yes, I also see my friend's attitude is changing towards life.
In terms of jobs, have you considered being a photographer/ocean researcher/forester/bloggers who broadcast how to fight your own struggle (sure you can make some $$ if you get enough subscribers)?
Here are how my friends dealt with his depression: they have 1 day a week to do what they want to do alone: surf or run. I honestly do not understand depression, but accordingly to my friends, it is a moment when they do not need to give a fuck to anything, embracing into the nature really helps them to relax and the results are that they have felt less depressed and I can really tell their difference.
One thing I also noticed, is that they also consciously try to be positive. I recently read a few books about our own subconsciousness (e.g. power beyond your subconscious mind, Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior, etc.) and it seems like once you "tried to be", you will start to behave the way your mind told you to. And yes, I also see my friend's attitude is changing towards life.
In terms of jobs, have you considered being a photographer/ocean researcher/forester/bloggers who broadcast how to fight your own struggle (sure you can make some $$ if you get enough subscribers)?
Which of these two options do you think would work better for you?
1. Working 4 hours a day 48 weeks a year 2. Working 8 hours a day for a month, working only every other month?
If you answered #1 that's part-time, if you answered #2 that's freelance or contract work. Those are obviously generalizations but the exercise is still useful.
You may want to check out UpWork or www.remoteok.io for contract and part-time jobs.
I hope this helped some.
1. Working 4 hours a day 48 weeks a year 2. Working 8 hours a day for a month, working only every other month?
If you answered #1 that's part-time, if you answered #2 that's freelance or contract work. Those are obviously generalizations but the exercise is still useful.
You may want to check out UpWork or www.remoteok.io for contract and part-time jobs.
I hope this helped some.
Having changed 5 jobs in last 1.5 yrs, I am finally feeling a bit better ! How? I started seeing a Consultant !
One exercise he did just changed my way I saw the world. I may or may not help you but it helped me.
He listed all problems I have on the left hand side. Why I feel bad. Why I hate myself. Why I think I'm a failure etc etc. Then he wrote all good things I have. He forced me to think all good things around me. I said there is no good thing around me. He asked do you have a job. I said Yes. Well there it is. One good thing. Suddenly we came up with around 5 items.
Then he asked. Where do you think you rank among all the population of the world. I said may be 50%. But you know where we all are? May be top 5% of most privileged group. It just changed the way I saw where I was and what I did or what I had to do.
Find a good consultant. It does make difference. My previous consultant wasn't good and I really didn't believe in therapy until I met the recent Consultant.
Best of Luck Mate !
Another thing: Talk. Talking does a lot of good.
Once you change the way you think, everything else will make sense and get better.
One exercise he did just changed my way I saw the world. I may or may not help you but it helped me.
He listed all problems I have on the left hand side. Why I feel bad. Why I hate myself. Why I think I'm a failure etc etc. Then he wrote all good things I have. He forced me to think all good things around me. I said there is no good thing around me. He asked do you have a job. I said Yes. Well there it is. One good thing. Suddenly we came up with around 5 items.
Then he asked. Where do you think you rank among all the population of the world. I said may be 50%. But you know where we all are? May be top 5% of most privileged group. It just changed the way I saw where I was and what I did or what I had to do.
Find a good consultant. It does make difference. My previous consultant wasn't good and I really didn't believe in therapy until I met the recent Consultant.
Best of Luck Mate !
Another thing: Talk. Talking does a lot of good.
Once you change the way you think, everything else will make sense and get better.
That's a pretty good advice, I would suggest OP should take it. I have exact same problem and after doing a lot of thinking alone, (yes off time in nature somewhere peaceful helps), I figured most important thing to do is to latch on to the positive side of the things, you have to fight with yourself to think positive, It could be scary but you have to do it and believe, world is a pretty good place. And as PanJaro said, you are among 5%. What you really need is someone in your life who can tell you everyday that you are fine, there is nothing wrong with you and, what you are doing is perfectly good in terms of amount and size, there is no more requirement to do any more, just keep on truckin. What you have is already pretty Good.
One more thing that is exceptionally important is to stay away from a lot of click-bait stuff, this will always leave you sad or feeling you lack something, and negative people. Basically anything that can amplify feedback loop of negativity that you are already struggling with.
And another most important thing is. Give your mind time to sort itself out. Don't force it to think anything, just let it go a little bit. Your mind has noticed that something in your life is not right, and it is trying to figure it out, like a puzzle, that is why it is trying to take you into a cave and curl up, so it can focus all it processing power on that one thing that it is trying to straighten out and squeze the answers and conclusions for future use.
One more thing that is exceptionally important is to stay away from a lot of click-bait stuff, this will always leave you sad or feeling you lack something, and negative people. Basically anything that can amplify feedback loop of negativity that you are already struggling with.
And another most important thing is. Give your mind time to sort itself out. Don't force it to think anything, just let it go a little bit. Your mind has noticed that something in your life is not right, and it is trying to figure it out, like a puzzle, that is why it is trying to take you into a cave and curl up, so it can focus all it processing power on that one thing that it is trying to straighten out and squeze the answers and conclusions for future use.
Great comments here. My advice would be similar to what others have said. Try working with people. Last year I was tutoring high school kids and it was a great experience. Working with stressed out kids was much less stressful than working with stressed out adults and it put everything into perspective. Any kind of work where you are interacting with people in a non-competitive environment (or compassionate environment) but also using your intellectual skills (Don't work at Taco Bell!). Try contracting rather than permanent work. Contracts have an end and you're not committing in the long term which allows you to take breaks to take care of your health between contracts. Focus your energy in maintaining a healthy lifestyle (exercise, eat healthy, get enough sleep, meditate). Do as much as possible to keep your thoughts out there (talking and writing) rather than letting your throughts eat you alive. You're not alone, good luck!
I am not a professional and I am probably not qualified to be an amateur either. I suggest taking a job that you could practically do blindfolded. Maybe it's "Taco Bell" or maybe it's pushing CMS content during the "grave yard" shift. The idea is to have something you can handle with the lowest possible stress triggers as possible. Perhaps this job is part time and you augment the rest of it with welfare or disability.
With all this in mind, you code at your own pace on your own free time. Pick a subject you like and master it. Take your time and relish in all the details. Become a virtual "Stephen Hawking" in the subject. With mastery comes accomplishment, confidence and self esteem and you are doing what you love
Also, I suggest exercise, it takes care of the fight or flight stuff or makes you more apathetic towards stress. YMMV.
I hope this helps, be well!
With all this in mind, you code at your own pace on your own free time. Pick a subject you like and master it. Take your time and relish in all the details. Become a virtual "Stephen Hawking" in the subject. With mastery comes accomplishment, confidence and self esteem and you are doing what you love
Also, I suggest exercise, it takes care of the fight or flight stuff or makes you more apathetic towards stress. YMMV.
I hope this helps, be well!
On the plus side you have been able to find that many jobs. So if you can figure out why you keep losing the jobs you should be able to get a new one and keep it. I've had the same job for 18 1/2 years and have to get a new one. I haven't searched for long enough that I feel at a disadvantage.
Loving programming and loving professional software engineering are two very different things.
SWE does have a certain amount of room for up and down--any objective-based thought work job does. But if you're going to be part of an organization, at some point you need to learn how to be constantly valuable.
But that is not necessarily the same thing as being constantly productive. There are other ways to contribute value to a team and, for that matter, other ways to structure your work so that you do harder stuff while feeling more up to it. Macros, metaprogramming, other tooling, all that stuff can be very useful for packing work into your useful moments and benefitting from it later (but can be an excessive timesink too, so watch out).
Sometimes you're not up to coding but you can put together an architectural plan for the next task in line. And to be honest, if you get very good at coding you may find that your hour of high-quality work in a day is enough to keep you employed because it has as much/more impact than someone else's four hours of mediocre work. I'm not even talking 10x programmer here, just that most good code is written in jumps and spurts, maybe capped off with a "holy crap the groove" all day session or three.
But the thing is, at some point you'll have a crunch deadline that won't accommodate the fact that you're not very useful that day. And early on, you're definitely going to be leaning more on the consistency of your beginner/intermediate work than anything. And no matter what, you always have to keep relationships going with your coworkers. The social/political aspect of software engineering is a pretty big deal in most companies. It's not something you necessarily notice when things go well, but you'll sure as hell notice when it doesn't. Depression hits that hard.
Overall, I think you've gotten some good advice here, though I will say as someone who has dealt with similar issues in the past, freelancing will require an extra level of self-discipline to pull yourself back onto the rails after an episode. But I also think it should be on the table to do something other than software engineering for a living. It's entirely possible this is something that, for you, would be a great thing to do on the side, not so great for a paycheck.
SWE does have a certain amount of room for up and down--any objective-based thought work job does. But if you're going to be part of an organization, at some point you need to learn how to be constantly valuable.
But that is not necessarily the same thing as being constantly productive. There are other ways to contribute value to a team and, for that matter, other ways to structure your work so that you do harder stuff while feeling more up to it. Macros, metaprogramming, other tooling, all that stuff can be very useful for packing work into your useful moments and benefitting from it later (but can be an excessive timesink too, so watch out).
Sometimes you're not up to coding but you can put together an architectural plan for the next task in line. And to be honest, if you get very good at coding you may find that your hour of high-quality work in a day is enough to keep you employed because it has as much/more impact than someone else's four hours of mediocre work. I'm not even talking 10x programmer here, just that most good code is written in jumps and spurts, maybe capped off with a "holy crap the groove" all day session or three.
But the thing is, at some point you'll have a crunch deadline that won't accommodate the fact that you're not very useful that day. And early on, you're definitely going to be leaning more on the consistency of your beginner/intermediate work than anything. And no matter what, you always have to keep relationships going with your coworkers. The social/political aspect of software engineering is a pretty big deal in most companies. It's not something you necessarily notice when things go well, but you'll sure as hell notice when it doesn't. Depression hits that hard.
Overall, I think you've gotten some good advice here, though I will say as someone who has dealt with similar issues in the past, freelancing will require an extra level of self-discipline to pull yourself back onto the rails after an episode. But I also think it should be on the table to do something other than software engineering for a living. It's entirely possible this is something that, for you, would be a great thing to do on the side, not so great for a paycheck.
If you do move, try to go somewhere that you have a support network of close friends and family.
Contract work may be your best bet.
Please try your best to seek professional help if things seem to be getting worst, or you feel like you are reaching a tipping point. And if there are people in your life you feel safe with, it may be helpful to keep them in the loop as well.
I hope feel better in the near future.
Please try your best to seek professional help if things seem to be getting worst, or you feel like you are reaching a tipping point. And if there are people in your life you feel safe with, it may be helpful to keep them in the loop as well.
I hope feel better in the near future.
Get your shit together first. Get a job, any job to rebuild your confidence. Lack of enthusiasm or bringing emotional shit to work are ways to get fired, so leave that at the door and bring a solid attitude. These jobs are practice jobs to get back in the groove, so be on the look out for promotions and better gigs. (Just don't burn any bridges because it's a small world and that next seemingly "better" job might not be better.)
Then, save up a little coin and get a reasonably economical van, crash on a friend's couch or do whatever it takes to get back in the valley because going outside leads to lost income and fewer opportunities. Follow your passion and find a way to make a decent living at it. If you really want to do technical work at a nonprofit in a certain area, by all means, do that.
Renting, consumerism and ostentatious living like eating out all the time, going for coffee and activities like that are what will bleed you dry and keep you balance-sheet poor. Live cheap and don't be brow-beaten by the fools trying to rationalize their own indebtedness by mocking others that actually have an exit plan.
Good luck, never give up.
Then, save up a little coin and get a reasonably economical van, crash on a friend's couch or do whatever it takes to get back in the valley because going outside leads to lost income and fewer opportunities. Follow your passion and find a way to make a decent living at it. If you really want to do technical work at a nonprofit in a certain area, by all means, do that.
Renting, consumerism and ostentatious living like eating out all the time, going for coffee and activities like that are what will bleed you dry and keep you balance-sheet poor. Live cheap and don't be brow-beaten by the fools trying to rationalize their own indebtedness by mocking others that actually have an exit plan.
Good luck, never give up.
Sex is a great "cure". Do you have a girlfriend? If you don't, then try to find one. Sex with different partners could even work better, but not everyone finds it appealing to them. Forget about work, forget about programming, forget about business. Go enjoy great sex.
For what it's worth, it looks to me like you are taking positive steps toward wellness. And even if I am wrong, we both know wellness won't come all at once, but will happen over time and it sounds like you've got a support network in place to back you up.
Stay strong.
Stay strong.
Did you try Ketamine to treat your depression? There is some recent studys with rather interesting results. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26647738
Concentrate on finding the right medication first, above everything else, so that it curbs your depression. Go back home, and stay with your parents until you have solved this issue. You won't hold any job until this problem is solved.
You may want to try to build your own online service or product. You'll have accountability to customers which is obviously important but you'll also have more flexibility in your schedule.
You may find people in a similar situation at http://devpressed.com/ Good luck and never give up!
Keep pushing forward until you find a place that appreciates you and your skills, and you can contribute and thrive. The best is yet to come.
Well, first let's not associate your 'depression' with 'work'. Sure, work can suck. Losing jobs and running through a cycle of them in a short amount of time can be sucky, too.
I've been in sales. Looking for work is the hardest sale. If someone doesn't want your vacuum cleaner, it's the product. If they think your life insurance rates are too high, it's the product. When job hunting, YOU are the product. And 95% of the time, you have no idea why you were rejected/ignored, and the few employers that tell you why either lie (unhelpful) or tell you things about yourself that you can't easily change (you're overqualified, your job history is not stable enough, you want too much money, etc.)
So, with a lot of job searches in a short amount of time, that can add to it. And I've had a LOT of jobs in my 20+ years of employment (some lasting only three days), so I know how you feel. Like you keep getting on the same roller coaster and you didn't even want to buy a ticket.
But let's be serious about one thing. This type of work - knowledge work - is detrimental to our overall health. You can do everything else right - fitness, eating healthy, pleasant and solid relationships, be a great parent (or son/daughter), have a great spiritual life - and sitting in front of a machine, no matter how much you love programming, and you and me are slowly killing ourselves.
Some people cope better at it. I happen to think grossly overweight people who consume large amounts of caffeine and sugary drinks and eat red meat are going to drop dead one day without warning, but in the meantime, they seem to excel at coping with such a sedentary lifestyle better.
For me, and maybe you can relate, it is incredibly unpleasant, increasingly, to be associated/tied to a machine. I love people. The "app-driven, put our life on social media, program your way to ninja/ping-pong coding guru" dream that we have been sold is hollow and pointless. And we all know it.
Balance is key. Finding it is hard.
My quick suggestions for you. Let me put it this way. Don't even think too much about these. I know, I know, you're an engineer/programmer mentality and over-analysis is all you know. But for once, since you're clearly struggling here, put some trust in someone else. I have a ton of children (way more than I can count) and have found this is hugely important stuff to maintaining balance. I hope it helps you, my friend.
1. NO devices after dark. Yeah, I don't care how crazy that sounds. You can watch TV, but no in-your-face devices, including Kindles, after dark. Shut them down. If true emergency happens, use F.lux for your laptop to keep blue-light at a minimum if you absolutely must email mom back at 10pm. Else, keep them off.
2. Walk 3 miles every day. Every single day. Throw your car keys in a drawer and walk three miles. Two miles is your 'off/easy' day. Three minimum. No device looking while you walk, except to play music or listen to a non-tech podcast. Learn a language, listen to American Life (stories about other people's problems), something. But no checking email. Go into airplane mode while walking. Ideally, have a PURPOSE or place to go to while walking. Could be work (once you get a job) if it is the right distance. Could be the grocery store. Could be a friend's house. Just try not to walk to/fro - it gets boring quick. Treadmills don't count. It MUST be outside.
3. Talk to one stranger every few days. About anything but tech. Don't compare phones. Ask him/her about their coffee, their outfit, the book they are reading, the car they drive, their child's funny hat... something. Get outside yourself, and reach out to others. Don't try and "collect data" on these people, even if they are cool and friendly. Don't worry about getting their email, phone, or Twitter handle. Just talk and let them stream past your life. My rule is this: if I stumble upon them a second time by pure chance (i.e. no stalking the barista girls), then maybe I try to make more of a connection, assuming the interest is mutual.
4. Get up early. Google it. I don't have time to sell it. But do it. 5AM is NOT early. But that will be a good start.
5. Do not work out in a gym. I don't care how much you like it. Find a ropes or fitness course and replace it with that, if you were working out. If not working out, and are in okay shape, then leave it alone. Your walking alone will be a huge help.
6. Don't compare yourself to others. I'm sure you have amazing talents and skills. So does everyone else. Nobody cares. Quit trying to be better and reading tech books, or how-to books (if you do). Read for pleasure at least every other book. Unsubscribe to tech magazines if you get them.
7. Along those lines, unsubscribe to as many things as you can. Interuptus Annoyance. And that means (gasp) deactivating Twitter. Promise yourself you won't reactivate (if ever) when you are Truly Happy. Might be hard at first. Same with social media. Cut out bloat. More than 50+ friends are bloat. 100+ is insanity. Log into FB and other similar sites only twice a week. Ideally, never, but I'm not going to push you to be a scrooge.
8. If you have a loved in your life, (didn't sound like it), give them a kiss and hug everyday and tell them you love them. Maybe for now that's your parents.
I hope that helps, friend. And don't let Silicon Valley be your standard. YOU be your standards. No one laments not affording it there. It's a crazy place to live. Live where you want. Follow YOUR dreams.
I've been in sales. Looking for work is the hardest sale. If someone doesn't want your vacuum cleaner, it's the product. If they think your life insurance rates are too high, it's the product. When job hunting, YOU are the product. And 95% of the time, you have no idea why you were rejected/ignored, and the few employers that tell you why either lie (unhelpful) or tell you things about yourself that you can't easily change (you're overqualified, your job history is not stable enough, you want too much money, etc.)
So, with a lot of job searches in a short amount of time, that can add to it. And I've had a LOT of jobs in my 20+ years of employment (some lasting only three days), so I know how you feel. Like you keep getting on the same roller coaster and you didn't even want to buy a ticket.
But let's be serious about one thing. This type of work - knowledge work - is detrimental to our overall health. You can do everything else right - fitness, eating healthy, pleasant and solid relationships, be a great parent (or son/daughter), have a great spiritual life - and sitting in front of a machine, no matter how much you love programming, and you and me are slowly killing ourselves.
Some people cope better at it. I happen to think grossly overweight people who consume large amounts of caffeine and sugary drinks and eat red meat are going to drop dead one day without warning, but in the meantime, they seem to excel at coping with such a sedentary lifestyle better.
For me, and maybe you can relate, it is incredibly unpleasant, increasingly, to be associated/tied to a machine. I love people. The "app-driven, put our life on social media, program your way to ninja/ping-pong coding guru" dream that we have been sold is hollow and pointless. And we all know it.
Balance is key. Finding it is hard.
My quick suggestions for you. Let me put it this way. Don't even think too much about these. I know, I know, you're an engineer/programmer mentality and over-analysis is all you know. But for once, since you're clearly struggling here, put some trust in someone else. I have a ton of children (way more than I can count) and have found this is hugely important stuff to maintaining balance. I hope it helps you, my friend.
1. NO devices after dark. Yeah, I don't care how crazy that sounds. You can watch TV, but no in-your-face devices, including Kindles, after dark. Shut them down. If true emergency happens, use F.lux for your laptop to keep blue-light at a minimum if you absolutely must email mom back at 10pm. Else, keep them off.
2. Walk 3 miles every day. Every single day. Throw your car keys in a drawer and walk three miles. Two miles is your 'off/easy' day. Three minimum. No device looking while you walk, except to play music or listen to a non-tech podcast. Learn a language, listen to American Life (stories about other people's problems), something. But no checking email. Go into airplane mode while walking. Ideally, have a PURPOSE or place to go to while walking. Could be work (once you get a job) if it is the right distance. Could be the grocery store. Could be a friend's house. Just try not to walk to/fro - it gets boring quick. Treadmills don't count. It MUST be outside.
3. Talk to one stranger every few days. About anything but tech. Don't compare phones. Ask him/her about their coffee, their outfit, the book they are reading, the car they drive, their child's funny hat... something. Get outside yourself, and reach out to others. Don't try and "collect data" on these people, even if they are cool and friendly. Don't worry about getting their email, phone, or Twitter handle. Just talk and let them stream past your life. My rule is this: if I stumble upon them a second time by pure chance (i.e. no stalking the barista girls), then maybe I try to make more of a connection, assuming the interest is mutual.
4. Get up early. Google it. I don't have time to sell it. But do it. 5AM is NOT early. But that will be a good start.
5. Do not work out in a gym. I don't care how much you like it. Find a ropes or fitness course and replace it with that, if you were working out. If not working out, and are in okay shape, then leave it alone. Your walking alone will be a huge help.
6. Don't compare yourself to others. I'm sure you have amazing talents and skills. So does everyone else. Nobody cares. Quit trying to be better and reading tech books, or how-to books (if you do). Read for pleasure at least every other book. Unsubscribe to tech magazines if you get them.
7. Along those lines, unsubscribe to as many things as you can. Interuptus Annoyance. And that means (gasp) deactivating Twitter. Promise yourself you won't reactivate (if ever) when you are Truly Happy. Might be hard at first. Same with social media. Cut out bloat. More than 50+ friends are bloat. 100+ is insanity. Log into FB and other similar sites only twice a week. Ideally, never, but I'm not going to push you to be a scrooge.
8. If you have a loved in your life, (didn't sound like it), give them a kiss and hug everyday and tell them you love them. Maybe for now that's your parents.
I hope that helps, friend. And don't let Silicon Valley be your standard. YOU be your standards. No one laments not affording it there. It's a crazy place to live. Live where you want. Follow YOUR dreams.
After struggling with a similiar problem for nearly ten years
I finally bit the bullet and took 6 month "me time" last year.
Had to beg friends and family for money, but now I'm more stable than anyone else.
You need to step out of the system. Meds and therapy won't cut it.
Afterwards move to finnland. Everybody is depressive here 8 month a year, so your boss will be happy if you curl up for a week instead of killing yourself. (Even if it sounds sarcastic ... it's true!)
Had to beg friends and family for money, but now I'm more stable than anyone else.
You need to step out of the system. Meds and therapy won't cut it.
Afterwards move to finnland. Everybody is depressive here 8 month a year, so your boss will be happy if you curl up for a week instead of killing yourself. (Even if it sounds sarcastic ... it's true!)
yoga.
just an hour a day.
It really seems like I can only invest half as much effort as my peers without experiencing severe burnout. I'm not talking about start-up people investing 80+ hour weeks, I'm talking about people doing 9 to 5 in big companies.
Programming is still on my short list of things I love, and I can't think of anything I'd rather try to do for a living. It's not my job that's making me depressed--I still want to shoot myself on the weekends, too. I'm really at a loss as to what to do.
Yes, I'm in therapy and on medication (not that it seems to do a lot--I've lost count of how many medications I've tried). No, I'm not about to attempt suicide, though God knows I'd like to.
Is there any kind of a career that you know of that I might still succeed in? Something where a week here and there of being stuck in I-fucking-want-to-curl-up-and-cry mode isn't a deal breaker?
As it stands, I'm broke enough that I can't afford Silicon Valley any more, and I'm getting ready to pack up and move back in with my parents until I come up with something. I have a couple lifestyle business ideas I want to try, but I don't have terribly high hopes for them. After that, all I can think of is trying some programming jobs outside the tech sector to see if they're less stressful, or abandoning tech altogether and working Taco Bell or something.
Any ideas? Help?