Ask HN: Do you ever feel the urge to work on something tangible?
12 comments
Hey!
You are not alone. I started getting this feeling around 2-3 years back and the feeling still lingers in me. I want to get out of tech (its been around 9 years in tech for me), and build real stuff, stuff you could feel and touch and adore.
I would quit tech, if i figured out what i wanted to build (for real). I would augment my craft with tech, but i wouldn't want to be working in tech to make a living.
And no, you are not depressed for gods sake! You are absolutely normal! The problem with the tech industry as i see it, is that you never attain mastery over your craft. It is a never ending game. You always have something new to learn - the paradigms keep shifting and priorities keep changing. While that may excite the majority, there are a bunch of us who would like to master our craft to perfection - and this sense is hard to attain in tech (please feel free to disagree, and if you are the lucky few please get in touch). I have envied craftsmen too.
But if you talk to them, they would probably envy us - since we make more money than them.
Best thing i figured is, use your privilege of making more money than majority and secure your future so you could buy some time to explore the craft you want to perfect. It should be on the side. And once you are clear you want to do it for the rest of your life - quit your job and move on to work on your craft.
Hope that helps!
You are not alone. I started getting this feeling around 2-3 years back and the feeling still lingers in me. I want to get out of tech (its been around 9 years in tech for me), and build real stuff, stuff you could feel and touch and adore.
I would quit tech, if i figured out what i wanted to build (for real). I would augment my craft with tech, but i wouldn't want to be working in tech to make a living.
And no, you are not depressed for gods sake! You are absolutely normal! The problem with the tech industry as i see it, is that you never attain mastery over your craft. It is a never ending game. You always have something new to learn - the paradigms keep shifting and priorities keep changing. While that may excite the majority, there are a bunch of us who would like to master our craft to perfection - and this sense is hard to attain in tech (please feel free to disagree, and if you are the lucky few please get in touch). I have envied craftsmen too.
But if you talk to them, they would probably envy us - since we make more money than them.
Best thing i figured is, use your privilege of making more money than majority and secure your future so you could buy some time to explore the craft you want to perfect. It should be on the side. And once you are clear you want to do it for the rest of your life - quit your job and move on to work on your craft.
Hope that helps!
>And no, you are not depressed for gods sake! You are absolutely normal! The problem with the tech industry as i see it, is that you never attain mastery over your craft. It is a never ending game. You always have something new to learn - the paradigms keep shifting and priorities keep changing. While that may excite the majority, there are a bunch of us who would like to master our craft to perfection - and this sense is hard to attain in tech (please feel free to disagree, and if you are the lucky few please get in touch). I have envied craftsmen too.
That's a great point. It does seem like an onslaught at times. But I don't think that's quite what I am upset with.
I LOVE learning new things!
It just seems like all of the things that I have been learning recently have only benefited large faceless corporations or people that are otherwise doing not-good-work in this world.
Like lining their pockets with the profits of whatever pointless game they seem to be playing.
Eking out a few percentage points off of a website's bounce rate or cutting a few milliseconds off of somebody's program runtime just seems so utterly pointless to me now.
Maybe it's just the types of people I have been working for?
Maybe I should try to get some work doing what I do for a non-profit or an organization that helps people... instead of a capitalistic one that drains their wallet?
I don't know... I just feel like I am wasting my talents doing what I am currently doing is all.
>But if you talk to them, they would probably envy us - since we make more money than them.
I know that they do. I have plenty of buddies who work in factories and they tell me all the time "You don't work! You just sit on a computer!"
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence I suppose.
Thank you very much for that comment!
That's a great point. It does seem like an onslaught at times. But I don't think that's quite what I am upset with.
I LOVE learning new things!
It just seems like all of the things that I have been learning recently have only benefited large faceless corporations or people that are otherwise doing not-good-work in this world.
Like lining their pockets with the profits of whatever pointless game they seem to be playing.
Eking out a few percentage points off of a website's bounce rate or cutting a few milliseconds off of somebody's program runtime just seems so utterly pointless to me now.
Maybe it's just the types of people I have been working for?
Maybe I should try to get some work doing what I do for a non-profit or an organization that helps people... instead of a capitalistic one that drains their wallet?
I don't know... I just feel like I am wasting my talents doing what I am currently doing is all.
>But if you talk to them, they would probably envy us - since we make more money than them.
I know that they do. I have plenty of buddies who work in factories and they tell me all the time "You don't work! You just sit on a computer!"
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence I suppose.
Thank you very much for that comment!
> Eking out a few percentage points off of a website's bounce rate or cutting a few milliseconds off of somebody's program runtime just seems so utterly pointless to me now.
Exactly! It seems utterly pointless indeed.
> I don't know... I just feel like I am wasting my talents doing what I am currently doing is all.
Take any software corporation today, and see what kind of work they do - talk to insiders! You will inevitably notice a pattern. Its all about these kinds of things - shaving a few seconds off here, optimizing there. We are like a cog in a machine. Maybe the engineers who got to work on iphone would have had that feeling of accomplishment of having contributed to something big - but the subsequent iterations would have been incremental at best! Now take the example of a carpenter , the instructions are the same for him, but every project is new though the underlying skillset is the same! And he can take what he learns from his previous project and apply it to his next project and improve his craft.
Like someone in the comments said, what you did 10 years ago is pointless now.
And if you are interested, check this out :
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/pakxby/silicon-va...
The tech industry may be doing more harm than good.
I too love learning new stuff, they are just different for me these days from tech. How about learning art or music ? they will be new, and they will keep you engaged.
What i was referring to was that, for example - if you play music your feedback loop is almost immediate to work with. Your senses are engaged and its easier to get into a flow!
Now imagine the way software construction is structured in big corporations - your feedback loop is way into the future, with no way to assess your contributions' impact. And even if you did have an impact, for whom ? As you said, for some capitalist wanting to fill their pockets with profits who in turn want to uphold shareholder supremacy!
I think i got verbose there ;) but i do understand what you are going through, and i hope you come up with something that adds value to people and make you a happy person! My good wishes!
Exactly! It seems utterly pointless indeed.
> I don't know... I just feel like I am wasting my talents doing what I am currently doing is all.
Take any software corporation today, and see what kind of work they do - talk to insiders! You will inevitably notice a pattern. Its all about these kinds of things - shaving a few seconds off here, optimizing there. We are like a cog in a machine. Maybe the engineers who got to work on iphone would have had that feeling of accomplishment of having contributed to something big - but the subsequent iterations would have been incremental at best! Now take the example of a carpenter , the instructions are the same for him, but every project is new though the underlying skillset is the same! And he can take what he learns from his previous project and apply it to his next project and improve his craft.
Like someone in the comments said, what you did 10 years ago is pointless now.
And if you are interested, check this out :
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/pakxby/silicon-va...
The tech industry may be doing more harm than good.
I too love learning new stuff, they are just different for me these days from tech. How about learning art or music ? they will be new, and they will keep you engaged.
What i was referring to was that, for example - if you play music your feedback loop is almost immediate to work with. Your senses are engaged and its easier to get into a flow!
Now imagine the way software construction is structured in big corporations - your feedback loop is way into the future, with no way to assess your contributions' impact. And even if you did have an impact, for whom ? As you said, for some capitalist wanting to fill their pockets with profits who in turn want to uphold shareholder supremacy!
I think i got verbose there ;) but i do understand what you are going through, and i hope you come up with something that adds value to people and make you a happy person! My good wishes!
What one learned 30 years ago in wood carving, painting (or plumbing) is probably still widely applicable. The intricacies of a particular programming language or environment you learned 30 years ago is likely meaningless. I remember being an expert an version 1.0 of a graphics program. That expertise is now useless: the program evolved, met its end of life and the company that distributed disappeared in an acquisition. Telling people today that I was an expert in 'FabulousDraw' gets me blank stares, the same as mention of the company that distributed it.
Activity in the physical realms is not unchanging of course. But it is more durable than software products. Installing the plumbing in a large building might not leave much of a mark on history, but it will leave more of a mark than doing the "plumbing" work on a corporate web site.
At least if you're a plumber or (was a) typewriter repair person, you can physically show ordinary people an example of what you do and they are likely to at least grasp the general concept.
Activity in the physical realms is not unchanging of course. But it is more durable than software products. Installing the plumbing in a large building might not leave much of a mark on history, but it will leave more of a mark than doing the "plumbing" work on a corporate web site.
At least if you're a plumber or (was a) typewriter repair person, you can physically show ordinary people an example of what you do and they are likely to at least grasp the general concept.
Bingo.
>At least if you're a plumber or (was a) typewriter repair person, you can physically show ordinary people an example of what you do and they are likely to at least grasp the general concept.
If real people do not care about what you are working on, then what's the point?
Am I working towards a thicker wallet or a few more zeros on my bank account? And if so, why?
>Telling people today that I was an expert in 'FabulousDraw' gets me blank stares, the same as mention of the company that distributed it.
LOL! I couldn't even find a reference to it on Google. Was that the software's actual name?
P.S. ... I noticed that you have been on HN for almost 3 years now and have only left a handful of comments. I encourage you to write more, as this comment in particular was profound imho.
Thank you very much for it.
>At least if you're a plumber or (was a) typewriter repair person, you can physically show ordinary people an example of what you do and they are likely to at least grasp the general concept.
If real people do not care about what you are working on, then what's the point?
Am I working towards a thicker wallet or a few more zeros on my bank account? And if so, why?
>Telling people today that I was an expert in 'FabulousDraw' gets me blank stares, the same as mention of the company that distributed it.
LOL! I couldn't even find a reference to it on Google. Was that the software's actual name?
P.S. ... I noticed that you have been on HN for almost 3 years now and have only left a handful of comments. I encourage you to write more, as this comment in particular was profound imho.
Thank you very much for it.
Besides the "urge to work on something tangible" another good reason is that you will find the dwindling opportunities in software due to ageism.
Btw - I'd personally love to team up with someone rather than go solo to reduce the risks, work and responsibility.
(snid comment: you took 15 years to realize this!, well, better late than never )
Btw - I'd personally love to team up with someone rather than go solo to reduce the risks, work and responsibility.
(snid comment: you took 15 years to realize this!, well, better late than never )
Then quit your job and become a plumber...
Start with a hobby.
Like what for example?
Model trains?
That isn't quite the "real" feeling I am after. A hobby that only benefits myself because I am bored doesn't seem like the kind of thing that will fulfill my lack of tangible real problems to work on.
The fact that my model train stopped working because the motor got wet or whatever doesn't really seem like an important problem to solve that would benefit anybody in particular.
Model trains?
That isn't quite the "real" feeling I am after. A hobby that only benefits myself because I am bored doesn't seem like the kind of thing that will fulfill my lack of tangible real problems to work on.
The fact that my model train stopped working because the motor got wet or whatever doesn't really seem like an important problem to solve that would benefit anybody in particular.
Something different... The following isn't going to pay, but it is FAR from a hobby. It it real, physically grounded, complex work that directly, observably, benefits real people. Bridges to Prosperity <https://www.bridgestoprosperity.org/>
That's a really interesting idea!
But it looks like they are only after money? [0]
They only ask for donations, fundraisers, or to join their newsletter. Is there any actual work to be done?
[0] https://www.bridgestoprosperity.org/what-you-can-do
But it looks like they are only after money? [0]
They only ask for donations, fundraisers, or to join their newsletter. Is there any actual work to be done?
[0] https://www.bridgestoprosperity.org/what-you-can-do
I took up woodworking about 3 years ago because I was having the same feelings you are. I absolutely love it. A lot of the first things I made were complete rubbish, but I love seeing my skill progress as I keep working at it. It's a really great mindful hobby that lets me clear my head and work with my hands. At the same time, I still get to geek out a lot as I learn about different tools, techniques, and woods.
I've been at this for about 15 years now. Writing code. Making websites. Making people's computer problems disappear basically.
I have lived a life "in tech" almost exclusively.
I was talking to my neighbor the other day who is a plumber by trade.
He was explaining how he is working on a new apartment building right now installing all of the faucets and pipes and what not. Running up and down stairs because there is no elevator installed yet, etc. Basically getting his hands dirty.
I have never thought this before... but as he explained it to me I actually started getting envious of him.
Which is an idea that I never thought I could ever have in my entire life.
I want to do something real. With my hands. That other normal real people can see and appreciate.
Like a working tap faucet for example. That's pretty awesome if you think about it! It's a magical button that gives fresh water to real people whenever they want! They might not know it... but they LOVE that tap and really appreciate it!
Whenever I learn a new algorithm or a new CSS trick or whatever that I think is cool... my only outlet is online essentially. I know a few local people who can talk shop so to speak... but after 15 years I was hoping to have met more than a handful of my ilk.
Maybe I'm just depressed? Maybe I'm just bored by my own routine? I don't know.
So I ask you HN, are there any older programmers out there who just got stir-crazy churning out the same old code year after year just to make a buck?
What did you do to overcome that hurdle?
Thanks for reading!