Netflix Makes a Statement in India with “Sacred Games”(economist.com)
economist.com
Netflix Makes a Statement in India with “Sacred Games”
https://www.economist.com/prospero/2018/07/19/netflix-makes-a-statement-in-india-with-sacred-games
104 comments
I hate consuming movies on Amazon Prime Video in India. Their self-censorship is worse than the Censor board.
Just one of my recent experiences - A well made movie "Shahid" - There's a scene where the two guys are in jail having a chat. An entire line just gets censored and Shahid's shocked reaction means the scene was important.
I then found the movie on Netflix. The line they censored was - "This country doesn't give a shit about it's minority". Wtf?! Are we that insecure that we need to Censor stuff like that.
That's just one example, it's almost impossible to watch Shahid and other similar movies on Amazon. Which is weird because they are on the Internet, they don't have a Censor body governing their content!
Just one of my recent experiences - A well made movie "Shahid" - There's a scene where the two guys are in jail having a chat. An entire line just gets censored and Shahid's shocked reaction means the scene was important.
I then found the movie on Netflix. The line they censored was - "This country doesn't give a shit about it's minority". Wtf?! Are we that insecure that we need to Censor stuff like that.
That's just one example, it's almost impossible to watch Shahid and other similar movies on Amazon. Which is weird because they are on the Internet, they don't have a Censor body governing their content!
Other examples of Amazon self-censoring despite the govt saying they are not considering censoring online content.
* Pixelated nudity in shows like Californication and The Man In The High Castle and films like Watchmen and The Godfather
* The Grand Tour had an episode which involved animal carcasses. All of it was removed.
My $0.02 on this difference between Amazon and Netflix. This is Netflix's primary business, while Video is an afterthought for Amazon compared to the retail business. A boycott of their retail business would be catastrophic, whereas a few people canceling their subscription over self-censorship is a non-issue.
Amazon can also potentially be shaken down for protection money. It would work like this. "Hi, we're from this political party and we're considering making these videos a major issue. Meanwhile, would you consider making a donation to our election campaign?"
* Pixelated nudity in shows like Californication and The Man In The High Castle and films like Watchmen and The Godfather
* The Grand Tour had an episode which involved animal carcasses. All of it was removed.
My $0.02 on this difference between Amazon and Netflix. This is Netflix's primary business, while Video is an afterthought for Amazon compared to the retail business. A boycott of their retail business would be catastrophic, whereas a few people canceling their subscription over self-censorship is a non-issue.
Amazon can also potentially be shaken down for protection money. It would work like this. "Hi, we're from this political party and we're considering making these videos a major issue. Meanwhile, would you consider making a donation to our election campaign?"
Let me get this straight. It's not catastrophic for Netflix if people boycott them for showing nudity but it's catastrophic for Amazon if people stopped watchiny Amazon prime video?
No he is saying that Amazon doesn't really care much about their video business and therefore are fine with decreasing it's competitiveness via censorship if it decreases the risk of boycotts on is primary businesses.
Whereas if Netflix becomes less competitive in it's video business they lose everything. So taking risks by not censoring can make more sense.
Whereas if Netflix becomes less competitive in it's video business they lose everything. So taking risks by not censoring can make more sense.
I have noticed a fundamental difference in the way these businesses try to function here. Amazon has been trying to completely adapt to how things "get done" in India. For the sake of the loose analogy I'll equate it to the "Ola way". You got to get your cabs moving on the road? Don't fight with the system, don't challenge the Govt or court, get around it. Politicians banned your cab? Well, wait till the evening when things cool down and traffic cops stop pulling your cabs over while you are busy lobbying and then everything is back on track while Uber kept releasing statements and losing business. Amazon has shown this on pricing front and the way they introduce offers and deals that is very specific to how it will work in India.
On the other hand Netflix tries to follow the same system that it follows everywhere - kind of how Uber has been trying so far - and it seems Netflix is already backing down when it comes to again pricing. Couple of lawsuits and and bans and I have little doubt Netflix will fall in line and start with the self-censoring.
I do want Netflix to succeed too and not at all condone censorship. Just sharing my crude observations as a local.
On the other hand Netflix tries to follow the same system that it follows everywhere - kind of how Uber has been trying so far - and it seems Netflix is already backing down when it comes to again pricing. Couple of lawsuits and and bans and I have little doubt Netflix will fall in line and start with the self-censoring.
I do want Netflix to succeed too and not at all condone censorship. Just sharing my crude observations as a local.
Unlike Netflix which is 100% online, Amazon also has a physical distribution network that it wants to keep running in India
That's frankly ridiculous, when shows like shameless are more or less intact, I don't know why they'd censor other shows, movies so much
Interesting, I think it could be because Amazon chose to be conservative and selected the version of the movie that's played on national TV.
I think if Netflix is smart and continues on this path then they can really cause a disruption in movie production houses in India.
The current Indian movie production houses are family or driven by an individual's vision (whether Karan Johar's, Salman Khan's, Yash Chopra's..). The new age creatives don't have sponsors who can relate to the way they want to a tell story or the theme of the stories that they want to tell.
It is not very unlike tech funding situation.
The Indian movie industry is perhaps where tech industry and funding was half century ago. The VCs of that era probably had very specific non-risky areas that they wanted to invest in and there was no way to get funding if you had an idea which was way beyond their comprehension or comfort zone.
Netflix with their war-chest, openness and brand equity has a true opportunity to steamroll the existing archaic business practices which probably hasn't evolved over last 100 years.
The current Indian movie production houses are family or driven by an individual's vision (whether Karan Johar's, Salman Khan's, Yash Chopra's..). The new age creatives don't have sponsors who can relate to the way they want to a tell story or the theme of the stories that they want to tell.
It is not very unlike tech funding situation.
The Indian movie industry is perhaps where tech industry and funding was half century ago. The VCs of that era probably had very specific non-risky areas that they wanted to invest in and there was no way to get funding if you had an idea which was way beyond their comprehension or comfort zone.
Netflix with their war-chest, openness and brand equity has a true opportunity to steamroll the existing archaic business practices which probably hasn't evolved over last 100 years.
You're right about the possibility of causing disruption (most likely will).
However, the reason isn't because old production houses don't want to or cannot make content like Netflix (because it's going to be the same people working on Netflix's content). It's because traditional cinema and Netflix have a different audience and Netflix gives the same film makers access to an audience whose critical appreciation for content is different from that of the masses.
However, the reason isn't because old production houses don't want to or cannot make content like Netflix (because it's going to be the same people working on Netflix's content). It's because traditional cinema and Netflix have a different audience and Netflix gives the same film makers access to an audience whose critical appreciation for content is different from that of the masses.
Very valid point about looking at this through audience segmentation lens.
But on that, what is true of today (Netflix catering to 'non-mass' discerning audience), may not be true tomorrow. Netflix is talking to Jio for reaching to masses [1].
Also if YouTube is any indication [2] - mobile phone and reaching to mass is the real key, which as above shows Netflix is already cognizant of.
Netflix has to and will enter 'mass' segment. And they can show 'mass' segment is not as dumb as Salman Khan, or Karan Johar thinks (which Aamir Khan productions has proven time and again that good story telling with good content cuts across audience segment).
[1] https://factordaily.com/netflix-jio-partnership-in-india/
[2] ..mobile devices contribute to 80 per cent of YouTube’s total watch time in India. That watch time is growing at a staggering 400 per cent year on year. https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/info-tech/youtube-mobil...
But on that, what is true of today (Netflix catering to 'non-mass' discerning audience), may not be true tomorrow. Netflix is talking to Jio for reaching to masses [1].
Also if YouTube is any indication [2] - mobile phone and reaching to mass is the real key, which as above shows Netflix is already cognizant of.
Netflix has to and will enter 'mass' segment. And they can show 'mass' segment is not as dumb as Salman Khan, or Karan Johar thinks (which Aamir Khan productions has proven time and again that good story telling with good content cuts across audience segment).
[1] https://factordaily.com/netflix-jio-partnership-in-india/
[2] ..mobile devices contribute to 80 per cent of YouTube’s total watch time in India. That watch time is growing at a staggering 400 per cent year on year. https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/info-tech/youtube-mobil...
Would a Netflix deal to deliver content over Jio at reduced prices / free adhere to the spirit of Net Neutrality?
Depends on how it's done.
Vodafone India is an affiliate for Amazon Prime and is offering 1 year of free prime to its subscribers. Offering a year free or something similar definitely adheres to the spirit of net neutrality IMO.
Vodafone India is an affiliate for Amazon Prime and is offering 1 year of free prime to its subscribers. Offering a year free or something similar definitely adheres to the spirit of net neutrality IMO.
Agreed.The way I see it is, if Jio monitors your contents and selectively provides higher bandwith for Netflix contents putting others at risk or Netflix selectively providing preferences to Jio subscribers, I think that would go against the spirit of net neutrality. Providing reduced rates for certain subscribers is kind of providing premium membership, which is a way to attract consumers.
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Total tangent. Amazon Prime's video library here in Australia disapointed me to such an extend that I unsubscribed within minutes of subscribing.
The dashboard has recommendations. In those recommendations, on this single page, Twilight appeared 26 (TWENTY SIX) times.
Any other page I'd go to would also have several instances of it recommending me a Twilight movie. I literally couldn't find enough decent movies because almost every other movie was from that series.
It was the shortest lived account I've ever owned.
Apologies for the rant. Am disappointed.
The dashboard has recommendations. In those recommendations, on this single page, Twilight appeared 26 (TWENTY SIX) times.
Any other page I'd go to would also have several instances of it recommending me a Twilight movie. I literally couldn't find enough decent movies because almost every other movie was from that series.
It was the shortest lived account I've ever owned.
Apologies for the rant. Am disappointed.
You may be surprised to know that early prime adopters in India paid as less as $4 yearly (I renew at that amount, this includes prime shipping and music as well).
So interestingly, India is a place where acquiring content is relatively easy because the money made from licensing movies for TV (after it is out of cinemas) in India is a lot lesser than the rest of the world. So it's a new income source for production houses with tons of old content and Amazon has jumped at that, making their content appeal to masses in India.
Along with that they've also invested money in creating content specifically for India which isn't comparable to Netflix but good quality sincere efforts nonetheless.
The Indian film industry is ready for online and has welcomed all players. A lot of Indian media houses and production houses are rolling out their own online platforms with subscriptions as well.
So interestingly, India is a place where acquiring content is relatively easy because the money made from licensing movies for TV (after it is out of cinemas) in India is a lot lesser than the rest of the world. So it's a new income source for production houses with tons of old content and Amazon has jumped at that, making their content appeal to masses in India.
Along with that they've also invested money in creating content specifically for India which isn't comparable to Netflix but good quality sincere efforts nonetheless.
The Indian film industry is ready for online and has welcomed all players. A lot of Indian media houses and production houses are rolling out their own online platforms with subscriptions as well.
I think Amazon has also been investing heavily in comedy and standup in India similar to what Netflix is doing in the U.S.
Overall I think with 2-day shipping, Amazon Music and Video for little under $20/yr, Amazon is doing a great job in acquiring users so far.
Overall I think with 2-day shipping, Amazon Music and Video for little under $20/yr, Amazon is doing a great job in acquiring users so far.
Given the whole thing where Richard Gere kissing an actress resulted in an entire city shut down with riots for a couple days... how exactly is this going to work out?
Most bollywood fare needs to cater to the masses (a large chunk of whom are semi-literate) in order to make money. Netflix's audience is by nature literate and middle-class with a decent internet connection at home. They can happily switch between Hindi, English and don't mind reading subtitles for Marathi if they don't already speak it.
Kudos to them for recognizing this market at the very least and attempting a show like this. I binged watched the show in 3 days and while it was interesting and wildy different from normal bollywood fare, I did not find it ultra amazing or anything compared to, say AGOT for example.
Kudos to them for recognizing this market at the very least and attempting a show like this. I binged watched the show in 3 days and while it was interesting and wildy different from normal bollywood fare, I did not find it ultra amazing or anything compared to, say AGOT for example.
I had the same feeling. Nothing awesome about the show. One thing I have begun to dislike with Netflix in general is most of their shows are extreme. Either too violent and dark or way too silly. I cannot watch them just for the sake of time pass or enjoyment without having negative emotions that sometimes lasts for days. Nowadays, even with a Netflix account, 99% of my TV is YouTube. Still I decided to watch Sacred Games since its based on India. Violence and sex on it were not something we would see in an Indian TV show, but overall entertainment value was lacking. The RAW officers were too simple. I find it hard to believe that this is how they operate. Also, its strange that some Indians think showing sex scenes as progressive. I don't want to see sex in regular movie. If I want to watch sex, I will go and watch porn. If one wants to see violence and gore, there are plenty of other websites. Please don't bring it to the masses in the name of progressiveness. Before anybody labels me as Taliban, I fully support public nudity. But sex scenes in these shows and movies are not real. Nudity in movies is a cheap way to get the audience. Make a mediocre show, sprinkle some sex scenes and violence here and there, profit.
You hit the nail on the head about Netflix. There is so much low quality content on it that it makes me eye everything they offer skeptically. There are so many great movies out there, why are none of them available on Netflix or Prime?
I've watched a couple modern Indian films recently, and the characters switch effortlessly between English and Hindi, sometimes in mid-sentence. More than once I even saw one character ask a question in Hindi and the other quote them in English: for example, (in Hindi:) 'Aren't I the smartest guy in the world?'; (in English:) 'No, you aren't "the smartest guy in the world".'.
I've been wondering: What is the subtext, what are the implications, of using English or of switching languages? There must be some and I'm missing the subtleties.
EDIT: clarification
I've been wondering: What is the subtext, what are the implications, of using English or of switching languages? There must be some and I'm missing the subtleties.
EDIT: clarification
Very common among bilingual speakers.
It's called "code switching"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching
It's hilarious watching my wife's aunts talk. They grew up in Hyderabad in a Sindhi household but emigrated to UK. They effortlessly switch between Telugu, Hindi, Sindhi, and English in the same conversation.
It's called "code switching"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching
It's hilarious watching my wife's aunts talk. They grew up in Hyderabad in a Sindhi household but emigrated to UK. They effortlessly switch between Telugu, Hindi, Sindhi, and English in the same conversation.
If you speak and understand Dari (the Afghan regional variant of Farsi), it's not just code switching... There's so many technical things that simply don't have words in Dari. There might be a word for radiator, such as in an automobile, but nobody uses it, they use the english word radiator. Almost anything that deals with technology invented and imported after the year 1900 is derived from either an English, French or Russian word (in the north/Uzbek speaking parts).
Listening to a conversation between two fluent native Dari speakers regarding any moderately complicated business, technical or engineering subject will be about 10% English words.
There are also a lot of words in Iranian Farsi that are derived from French. France was one of the first western european countries to form serious diplomatic and trade relationships with Iran, (a long, long time before Mossadeq and coups, oil companies, etc). One example, in french:
English: Potato. French: pomme de terre
pomme = apple
Farsi: seeb zameenee (literal translation ground apple).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_loanwords_in_Pe...
Listening to a conversation between two fluent native Dari speakers regarding any moderately complicated business, technical or engineering subject will be about 10% English words.
There are also a lot of words in Iranian Farsi that are derived from French. France was one of the first western european countries to form serious diplomatic and trade relationships with Iran, (a long, long time before Mossadeq and coups, oil companies, etc). One example, in french:
English: Potato. French: pomme de terre
pomme = apple
Farsi: seeb zameenee (literal translation ground apple).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_loanwords_in_Pe...
It's the same in Hindi. There are words that most people don't even know the Hindi equivalent for. Even if they do, they use the English version, regardless of their education level. Examples would be "car" and "phone".
Language proliferation in the entire north-west belt from India to Iran is really interesting. Lots of Persian words in every language from Dari to Urdu to Hindi. "Zameenee" is ground in Dari, "Zameen" is ground in Urdu, which is used in every day Hindi as well
Language proliferation in the entire north-west belt from India to Iran is really interesting. Lots of Persian words in every language from Dari to Urdu to Hindi. "Zameenee" is ground in Dari, "Zameen" is ground in Urdu, which is used in every day Hindi as well
The more one studies the history of the Mughal empire, it's obvious how the Persian language of the court influenced things in the region for a long, long time. The relatively brief Sikh empire also made extensive use of Persian.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=per...
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=per...
The characters in Anna Karenina speak French in some parts (at least in my English copy of the book). I don't know why but it clearly meant something for that conversation to be in French. It's there something the story is trying to say when they switch between Hindi and English on that show?
As far as I know, it was just a matter of style - no deep meaning beyond the fact the speaker was being conformant to the societal norms of the day.
Of course I cannot fit the background into a short comment (and I'm not good enough with history of that period), but the reason for this is that in 18-19th centuries the majority of Russian nobility was very francophilic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophile#Russia
Of course, switching to a different language - or different style of the same language, like switching to extremely formal speech - has a stylistic meaning, but that's it.
Of course I cannot fit the background into a short comment (and I'm not good enough with history of that period), but the reason for this is that in 18-19th centuries the majority of Russian nobility was very francophilic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophile#Russia
Of course, switching to a different language - or different style of the same language, like switching to extremely formal speech - has a stylistic meaning, but that's it.
For the Russian aristocracy in the 18th and 19th centuries, French was often their everyday language. Russian was only used to communicate with servants. The sprinkling of French phrases through Tolstoy is meant to evoke this aristocratic world, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the phrases which Tolstoy sets in French are somehow more important than the dialogue he presets in Russian.
AFAIK, in 19th century, esp. after the Napoleonic invasion of Russia it wasn't as hardcore as that. Aristocracy spoke a fair amount of Russian among themselves, but still mixed in a lot of French (and IIRC some accidental Latin).
I could be wrong though.
I could be wrong though.
Yeah, this happens whenever people speak more than one language. My experience of it with English and Spanish is that there are some things that are more fluidly expressed in one language or another, or there's a joke that's only possible in one, or there's a joke that's only possible by combining. It just expands your vocab a lot, basically, so you get access to a wider range of nuanced connotations.
Happens to me all the time when speaking to another French/English bilingual person. I think it's just a result of multilingualism, people pick whichever language they're more comfortable using for specific topics. For instance I have a hard time talking about tech in French, despite it being my first language.
It’s a blend of Hindi and English (Hinglish). Here’s a wiki you may find interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinglish
> Hinglish, a portmanteau of Hindi and English,[1] is the macaronic hybrid use of English and South Asian languages from across the Indian subcontinent, involving code-switching between these languages whereby they are freely interchanged within a sentence or between sentences.[2] While the name is based on the Hindi language, it does not refer exclusively to Hindi, but "is used in India, with English words blending with Punjabi, and Hindi, and also in British Asian families to enliven standard English".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinglish
> Hinglish, a portmanteau of Hindi and English,[1] is the macaronic hybrid use of English and South Asian languages from across the Indian subcontinent, involving code-switching between these languages whereby they are freely interchanged within a sentence or between sentences.[2] While the name is based on the Hindi language, it does not refer exclusively to Hindi, but "is used in India, with English words blending with Punjabi, and Hindi, and also in British Asian families to enliven standard English".
I have friends who keep switching between three (not counting the made up language only those two understand).
This isn't uncommon among multi lingual people.
This isn't uncommon among multi lingual people.
Vernacular use has not many such "subtleties", except maybe that some sentences flow better when translated to English.
I have not seen much vernacular use of this "quoting" phenomenon you noticed in sacred games, I think that is mainly to offer a clearer understanding to a multilingual audience.
I have not seen much vernacular use of this "quoting" phenomenon you noticed in sacred games, I think that is mainly to offer a clearer understanding to a multilingual audience.
> I have not seen much vernacular use of this "quoting" phenomenon you noticed in sacred games
To be clear, that phenomenon wasn't common, it was just a powerful example: The second character had just heard the words in Hindi and yet chose to repeat them in English.
To be clear, that phenomenon wasn't common, it was just a powerful example: The second character had just heard the words in Hindi and yet chose to repeat them in English.
Modern Urdu on the Pakistan side of the border is quite similar. The amount of English that is worked into Urdu in a higher budget TV or movie production is increasing. Or watch any of the major Pakistani TV news channels (Geo, etc) for an example.
I saw a few scenes from Waar, which is supposedly a very successful Pakistani film. I however, felt the amount of English being used in that film to be unnaturally high. That is the ending of the film is fully in English. Indian writers are also guilty of this. It makes the entire thing seem artificial and even unprofessional.
Urban population sometimes or often does speak that way, without any reason. Depends on the context sometimes.
Unfortunately I don't think it will last. Indian government + its agencies are very conservative and I'm sure they will be making attempts at censoring Netflix in India.
I bet the spending power of non-India Indians in the rest of the world is huge.
"non-India Indians" are called NRIs (non-resident Indians).
And you're right, in the list of ethnic groups in USA by household income, Indian Americans rank number 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...
And you're right, in the list of ethnic groups in USA by household income, Indian Americans rank number 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...
Does NRI apply to people without Indian citizenship?
Nope, strictly speaking NRI is a tax status of people who are Indian citizens but do not reside in India.
Foreign citizens who descent from Indian origin are called PIO i.e. person of Indian origin
Foreign citizens who descent from Indian origin are called PIO i.e. person of Indian origin
In banking/government terms, yes, but in general terms NRI is used much wider to describe a person of Indian origin. At least in West India.
Does “Desi” work in this case? Is it offensive for a white guy to say?
Desi is not offensive or derogatory.
I fact, in the US it seems to be used to refer to anyone from the subcontinent, not just from India.
Desi is probably a better term, since NROs, PIOs and non Indian brown Asians are usually target audience for such content :)
I fact, in the US it seems to be used to refer to anyone from the subcontinent, not just from India.
Desi is probably a better term, since NROs, PIOs and non Indian brown Asians are usually target audience for such content :)
Would depend on context, but for the most part it's not at all offensive. In my experience Indians in Silicon Valley refer to "indian things / culture" as Desi all the time.
It might be interesting to know that the Sanskrit word "desi" itself just means country
Many words starting with n and with gs in them are just color descriptions. Shortened versions of Japanese and Pakistani are offensive in some countries but not others. The Thai word for Indian is “visitor” as in “not from here, will go home soon”. Plenty of words with innocuous meanings pick up offensive meanings.
Scared Games is awesome. There's also another original documentary series Netflix recently launched which is 'Wild Wild Country' and its based on cult Indian figure Osho and the time he spent in Oregon. It's worth watching too.
I watched recently similar documentary on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwx9nqknu-c
It's not just 'Sacred Games'. Other Netflix originals like 'Lust Stories' are breaking the Bollywood mould and telling stories that are too taboo for Bollywood. Great job, Netflix!
To be honest, its less about being a Taboo (see films like Chameli, Chandni Bar, Fashion) have tried telling taboo stories. Its the censor board which is so inconsistent that it doesn't even make sense. This platform helps them bypass it and its working, and its also being accepted by the viewers . Win-Win-Win
Maybe I'm biased coming from (North) American culture but I'm always amazed at the level of government intervention Indians tolerate. Every time I read about the regulatory landscape there it blows my mind (ie, hearing how a truck delivering something across the country needs to stop 8 times in every county they pass to make sure they have proper paperwork). It's always terribly excessive and almost illogical by design (arbitrary laws to give abitrary power to the individuals impementing it).
"It's always terribly excessive and almost illogical by design"
Well, its a basic human emotion, greed. Never gets satisfied. However absurd it might get.
Well, its a basic human emotion, greed. Never gets satisfied. However absurd it might get.
I think they're mostly being careful. In polite, educated society Netflix's content isn't going to cause any problems, but in some places there is a real danger to public order from broadcast media.
"Fake news" has resulted in the deaths of dozens of people in India this year[1]. I think reasonable people should value free and uncensored media, but I also think reasonable people can disagree on the degree to which that freedom should be valued relative to public safety. It's certainly ugly to think "only people who can afford Netflix can be trusted to watch controversial content and not kill each other" though.
1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44897714
"Fake news" has resulted in the deaths of dozens of people in India this year[1]. I think reasonable people should value free and uncensored media, but I also think reasonable people can disagree on the degree to which that freedom should be valued relative to public safety. It's certainly ugly to think "only people who can afford Netflix can be trusted to watch controversial content and not kill each other" though.
1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44897714
My response is the potential for abuse and the natural growth in scale and scope of oversight negates the utility of such control of media. I'd bet a thousand dollars for every violent act prevented through censure there were 100 arbitrary, social, or overly careful controls that had little real benefit to society.
If America took this advice they'd have banned goth music and violent video games in a 'think of the children' antiviolence bullshit narrative.
Not to mention the idea you can regulate your way out of 'fake news' (even ignoring the massive cost to culture, political freedom, and spread of knowledge) is ridiculous and naive.
If America took this advice they'd have banned goth music and violent video games in a 'think of the children' antiviolence bullshit narrative.
Not to mention the idea you can regulate your way out of 'fake news' (even ignoring the massive cost to culture, political freedom, and spread of knowledge) is ridiculous and naive.
It's the legacy of the "license Raj". While post-independence India didn't quite go communist, it was a planned economy. This in turn is a legacy of British India as a planned extractive economy, e.g. the salt tax and monopoly.
Re: truck stopping. That's no longer the case. While it has teething issues, in 2017 a single tax replaced all domestic taxes except income tax. Trucks can travel the length and breadth of the country without being stopped. I do agree with the rest of what you're saying though, Indians trust government to do the right thing much more than Americans would.
Not anymore. GST has streamlined it. I am not from the trucking industry but I have some friends who are. GST has done away with local taxes and the Trucking industry has benefited from it.
You should know that the e-way bill system is applicable to end customers as well - if the value of goods that you are transporting in your private vehicle exceeds Rs.50,000, you are liable to get an E-way bill prepared! Think I am joking? See this:
https://cleartax.in/s/eway-bill-end-consumer/
Are you from the USA? I’m not sure how it is in Canada, but the US has a very funny view on nudity.
Indeed. USA treats human body as something to be shameful about. A wardrobe malfunction at a concert becomes such big news. Any kind of nudity is considered taboo and censored on national broadcast channels.
Well let me blow your mind even more - My taxi had to stop at a government office (not a toll both) to pay the tax for crossing over from Delhi to Uttar Pradesh while visiting Taj Mahal. It was too early in the morning so the office was closed. So we couldn't pay the tax. We crossed over without paying tax. The driver told me you can pay the tax online and you should have paid it even before you started the journey. I was like how the fuck am I supposed to know that I have to pay some tax online for going from Delhi to Taj Mahal. On the way back we had to pay tax again while entering Delhi (that was a toll booth though) but the guy wanted a proof that we had paid the tax in the morning. Fortunately, by that time owner of the taxi company had paid the tax online on our behalf and we could show the guy the text message confirmation - lol.
Regarding the trucks, they don't have to stop at every county. As far as I know, they are checked randomly at check posts at every state, similar to your border crossing checkpoints. In my opinion, they are not doing enough checks. Recently, in my state, they have increased checks on trucks bringing sea food and caught lot of them with harmful additives in them.
>Large quantities of adulterated fish have been seized from many border check-posts in the past month.
Example 1: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/6-000-kg-of-formal...
Example 2: https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/formalin-laced-fishes-...
While you guys are worried about small quantities of lead or micro plastics or dying or mislabeling of fish, we have to worry about really harmful stuff in them.
Strangely, YouTube recommended me this video yesterday (California teacher refuses to answer question at checkpoint, detained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAASgPU1BQc). Thankfully, we haven't reached this level in India yet. If anything, my complaint is we don't have enough checks. We should have 1000 times more checks in India on everything. If we have the kind of policing and other regulations you have in USA, India would become a paradise.
>Large quantities of adulterated fish have been seized from many border check-posts in the past month.
Example 1: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/6-000-kg-of-formal...
Example 2: https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/formalin-laced-fishes-...
While you guys are worried about small quantities of lead or micro plastics or dying or mislabeling of fish, we have to worry about really harmful stuff in them.
Strangely, YouTube recommended me this video yesterday (California teacher refuses to answer question at checkpoint, detained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAASgPU1BQc). Thankfully, we haven't reached this level in India yet. If anything, my complaint is we don't have enough checks. We should have 1000 times more checks in India on everything. If we have the kind of policing and other regulations you have in USA, India would become a paradise.
Why would a truck need to be checked multiple times for the exact same thing and pay for it to happen? What makes stopping at each state unique and valuable to Indian society when it had stopped before?
The problem isn't that they are being checked, its obviously the fact theyd have to stop at each state to pay a tax or do the exact same regulatory oversight multipl times... instead of just flashing some paperwork from a prior check? Ideally at beginning or end points?
The problem isn't that they are being checked, its obviously the fact theyd have to stop at each state to pay a tax or do the exact same regulatory oversight multipl times... instead of just flashing some paperwork from a prior check? Ideally at beginning or end points?
Thank the post colonial hangover for that. The current govt is doing some great things in this regard. GST has made this “stops at border of states” a thing of the past now.
I don’t think Netflix would have survived with the earlier regime in India which had sustained this monster called the censor board.
The current ruling party, though projected by the Indian and international media as conservative, hasn’t created any issues for Netflix to operate as is, which I think is very very surprising (and pleasant).
With the kind of mindless censorship, most movies and series are boring to watch on Indian tv. Netflix is a great departure from the rest of the content that treats its viewers as kids.
I don’t think Netflix would have survived with the earlier regime in India which had sustained this monster called the censor board.
The current ruling party, though projected by the Indian and international media as conservative, hasn’t created any issues for Netflix to operate as is, which I think is very very surprising (and pleasant).
With the kind of mindless censorship, most movies and series are boring to watch on Indian tv. Netflix is a great departure from the rest of the content that treats its viewers as kids.
You should read up on the e-way bill system that has been introduced. It is a total nightmare. Do you realise that under this law even ordinary citizens have to generate e-way bills if they transport anything valued at over Rs.50,000 in their own vehicle?! Technically you can be help liable even if you have a laptop or even a phone valued at over Rs.50K in Total - that is, if the value of the goods totals upto Rs.50,000. This is rife for abuse.
I’m not aware of this issue. Even if it exists, I’m positive that it’ll be fixed sooner than later.
Such a big overhaul for a country of 1.3 billion indeed will have some quirks that’d need to be fixed over a few iterations.
Such a big overhaul for a country of 1.3 billion indeed will have some quirks that’d need to be fixed over a few iterations.
Censor board can censor Netflix as well if it gains critical mass in India. So the platform cannot help bypass the censor board
Not true. Doesn’t apply to television and internet.
Doesn't mean technologically ignorant judges and government agencies haven't tried their best to censor things on the Internet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India
They can not. As long as its on Internet. They might have to ban Netflix in India all together, If I am not mistaken.
I wasn't expecting much from lust stories, but it was surprisingly (for me) good and compelling. Sacred games was everything I expected and more! Hopefully moves like this will raise the bar for TV programming across the country. Or atleast for the target audience I'm part of.
In a world where state backed religions and religion backed states exists. Where the funds and man power set aside for religious expansion in the organised religions is more than the defence budgets of many countries. Censorship and reflection of bias is important.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5eE3SENo0
Takes a good look at bias and dishonesty in Bollywood. Netflix can also fall victim to "moles" just like the BBC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5eE3SENo0
Takes a good look at bias and dishonesty in Bollywood. Netflix can also fall victim to "moles" just like the BBC.
Did you just try to make an argument for why censorship is important? Because don't see anything.
It's amazing how the conservative Hindu majority of India has been convinced that they're in danger of unseen forces.
It's amazing how the conservative Hindu majority of India has been convinced that they're in danger of unseen forces.
Precisely. It is not just that. The Hindu right wing have been sold narrative - a version of history where they are told that they are denied their "right" place in history - at the very top of all world cultures, only because of the pesky minorities. So they should subjugate the minorities and cast them to the fringes so that the "great" Hindu nation can rise again.
This comment just reeks of bias. How come the admins dont boot such hate spreaders from HN
Absolutely valid points. Bollywood bias and propaganda is proven by this IIMA study
more here https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Bollywood-glorify-Islam-and-m...
more here https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Bollywood-glorify-Islam-and-m...
Are you referencing links from Quora in order to make a point? Because far from lending you credibility, it detracts and weakens your claim.
What's next? Are we gonna see links from Swarajyamag? For the uninitiated, that's a right of center tabloid, an Indian equivalent to The Sun or the Daily Mail.
What's next? Are we gonna see links from Swarajyamag? For the uninitiated, that's a right of center tabloid, an Indian equivalent to The Sun or the Daily Mail.
Avoid Ad Homen attacks.
Please focus on your arguments
Please focus on your arguments
I have to say, this article's writing did a good job of getting me interested in the material.
Most of the series has unforced graphic scenes and vulgarity. It's just gangs of wassrypur set in Mumbai with more vulgarity because it was produced for Netflix.
The series is gross, vulgar and has unwanted scenes of violence. Depictions of India far from reality.Avoidable.
Never thought I would see stuff like this on HN. https://imgur.com/a/BlfhrPv
I agree with you, I was surprised to see this on the front page as well. I guess it's because this is Netflix's [being a California tech company] first real effort to enter the Indian market. Hence it implies the consequences this launch could have on its position [and Prime's too] in the Indian market as it establishes itself in a country with a [relatively] mature entertainment / cinema industry.
Now that it's here, it's good for you to have commented here expressing your concern.
However, the comments you've linked surprise me even more as they represent pure hate. I'm curious to know which forum they are from, anyone?
Now that it's here, it's good for you to have commented here expressing your concern.
However, the comments you've linked surprise me even more as they represent pure hate. I'm curious to know which forum they are from, anyone?
Just realised that I can see those comments on the bottom of the page after enabling 'show dead' in my HN settings.
codecrusade(1)
Amazon Prime too has made strides in acquiring and producing content for the Indian market. But both have clearly taken a different stance in doing so. Amazon is quick to acquire bollywood movies for Prime and from Netflix's latest content, it appears that they have potential to replace bollywood bangers.