The Putin Exodus: The New Russian Brain Drain(publications.atlanticcouncil.org)
publications.atlanticcouncil.org
The Putin Exodus: The New Russian Brain Drain
https://publications.atlanticcouncil.org/putin-exodus/
107 comments
> I didn’t want to be someone who decided to stay in Germany of 1935.
What are you referring to exactly ?
What are you referring to exactly ?
Let me help you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_in_Germany
Oh, thanks.
Now I totally see which aspects of 1935 in Germany parent has in mind when thinking about contemporary Russia.
I can see how Sarah Kirsch's birth was a foretelling sign for things to come.
Totally helping, totally awesome.
Now I totally see which aspects of 1935 in Germany parent has in mind when thinking about contemporary Russia.
I can see how Sarah Kirsch's birth was a foretelling sign for things to come.
Totally helping, totally awesome.
The very first line is: "Head of state, Hitler" I think that says enough?
No, it doesn't.
"Because Hitler" is way too vague. It doesn't tell anything about which events seem similar to OP and how the situation in the country is evolving. Unless he means Putin is acting and thinking like Hitler which is a gross generalization and still doesn't tell much about what's happening.
By that reasoning it follows that OP should have left the country when Putin was first elected president in 1999.
edit: Also, Hitler became head of state in august of the previous year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_in_Germany
So, why 1935 and not 1934 ? But that's okay, OP clarified things https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19521632
I am curious why this is downvoted and people seem to be OK with the Hitler rising to power comparison when we usually have political conversation here that are going much much deeper in the details of things.
"Because Hitler" is way too vague. It doesn't tell anything about which events seem similar to OP and how the situation in the country is evolving. Unless he means Putin is acting and thinking like Hitler which is a gross generalization and still doesn't tell much about what's happening.
By that reasoning it follows that OP should have left the country when Putin was first elected president in 1999.
edit: Also, Hitler became head of state in august of the previous year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_in_Germany
So, why 1935 and not 1934 ? But that's okay, OP clarified things https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19521632
I am curious why this is downvoted and people seem to be OK with the Hitler rising to power comparison when we usually have political conversation here that are going much much deeper in the details of things.
It's obvious that border will be closed soon and people will have no choice to support Putin's regime or not.
Right now russian government is trying to create own "internet", separated from the global net, control every call/sms on the phones and every bit of traffic.
Law about the "fake news" started today: if some person wrote a commentary (or post/article) about the people from the government (or their friends) and content was negative, then this person will be charged with fee. If you think that somebody is going to check that news are real or not - you have no idea about "laws" in russia :)
Right now russian government is trying to create own "internet", separated from the global net, control every call/sms on the phones and every bit of traffic.
Law about the "fake news" started today: if some person wrote a commentary (or post/article) about the people from the government (or their friends) and content was negative, then this person will be charged with fee. If you think that somebody is going to check that news are real or not - you have no idea about "laws" in russia :)
No particular event, but I was thinking about the fact that at least some people in Germany must have had a premonition about what might happen, with Hitler’s raise to power and Germany becoming a dictatorship. Some of these people trusted their gut and analysis and got out, some decided to stay.
Ah, I wouldn't want to live in Russia from what I gather from the media but it's another story to live there and the picture is far from complete for a european such as myself.
I had a conversation with my grand-mother years ago about if it could have known it was better to leave. Some people knew, of those most couldn't leave.
Russia's whereabouts appear now and then on the TV but it's soon replaced by something else so it doesn't stay on our mind for long (enough ?).
I actually don't have a lot of info about russia. I know they engage in online trolling, that they have a whole org dedicated to bashing the EU and NATO in the media and that at some point there was a weirdly oriented map in the president's office that showed Russia as somehow cornered by continental Europe.
I also hear about how journalists are threatened by politics and the murder of that woman on Putin's birthday. And the invasion/incursion.
But then nothing changes here and Brexit linger on and on.
Interestingly Sigmund Freud only left the continent when the anschluss happened so it's quite hard to predict that kind of thing.
I had a conversation with my grand-mother years ago about if it could have known it was better to leave. Some people knew, of those most couldn't leave.
Russia's whereabouts appear now and then on the TV but it's soon replaced by something else so it doesn't stay on our mind for long (enough ?).
I actually don't have a lot of info about russia. I know they engage in online trolling, that they have a whole org dedicated to bashing the EU and NATO in the media and that at some point there was a weirdly oriented map in the president's office that showed Russia as somehow cornered by continental Europe.
I also hear about how journalists are threatened by politics and the murder of that woman on Putin's birthday. And the invasion/incursion.
But then nothing changes here and Brexit linger on and on.
Interestingly Sigmund Freud only left the continent when the anschluss happened so it's quite hard to predict that kind of thing.
I know a Russian national who moved from Moscow to Warsaw and, for the time being, is not planning on returning.
The reasons are not political though. Even though her salary effectively halved, she says her quality of life generally improved, because:
1. The weather is better.
2. The food is better.
3. People are nicer.
Which caught me off guard somewhat because Poland is not really known for any of these things.
Hell, for the exactly same reasons I spend a considerable fraction of the year in Italy instead of Warsaw where I'm based.
The reasons are not political though. Even though her salary effectively halved, she says her quality of life generally improved, because:
1. The weather is better.
2. The food is better.
3. People are nicer.
Which caught me off guard somewhat because Poland is not really known for any of these things.
Hell, for the exactly same reasons I spend a considerable fraction of the year in Italy instead of Warsaw where I'm based.
I have moved in 2012. Happened after getting arrested without charges twice during peaceful protests.
The elections in 2011-2012 were undoubtedly faked to a major degree. But these years most people in Russia praise Khuylo for the victory in fratricidal war with Ukraine.
The elections in 2011-2012 were undoubtedly faked to a major degree. But these years most people in Russia praise Khuylo for the victory in fratricidal war with Ukraine.
This is the problem with regimes that value ideology above all else. The most fiercely partisan to the ideology, whether or not they truly believe in it, rise to the top, regardless of actual talent. Anyone who is more pragmatic is forced out. And those with desirable skills will have an easier time leaving.
There's a dinstinct lack of ideology is contemporary Russia.
Sometimes an ideology is just a rationalized cult of personality.
You are wrong. There is a pretty bold ideology in Russia: Putin is a god-blessed King, Orthodox Christianity is more important than any kind of science.
Church attendance is hovering around 4% and the absolute majority are old women. While a lot of people consider themselves "culturally christian", religion doesn't play a significant role in common people's lives
It doesn't matter what they believe, what does matter is how much power church have.
Just one of endless examples: Military Academy of Strategic Rocket Forces now has department (faculty) of Orthodox Christianity. It's just one of examples of total madness and degradation - church gains more and more power in Russia.
Just one of endless examples: Military Academy of Strategic Rocket Forces now has department (faculty) of Orthodox Christianity. It's just one of examples of total madness and degradation - church gains more and more power in Russia.
Ideology none believes in should be called differently.
Maybe it's just your observation bias. Try talking to some blue-collar people in a provincial town.
Mini-AMA, anybody? For me myself, left as an exchange student 12 years ago. Been back for a few months after being kicked out of Canada in 2016, almost got robbed the first time I went out late.
Back in 2007, it was very certain that the country was bordering on turning North Korea any day. As somebody faring from a more or less privileged background, my parents heard of credible rumour of Kremlin looking up to "quick, clean war," and that was the last straw for them.
I saw tons and tons other far-easterners from Russia in China, Vietnam, Malaysia, South Korea. Some leave for jobs, some move permanently.
Back in nineties, there were mostly engineers leaving for plumpy jobs in Chinese state companies, but in this wave I see far more regular people.
Back in 2007, it was very certain that the country was bordering on turning North Korea any day. As somebody faring from a more or less privileged background, my parents heard of credible rumour of Kremlin looking up to "quick, clean war," and that was the last straw for them.
I saw tons and tons other far-easterners from Russia in China, Vietnam, Malaysia, South Korea. Some leave for jobs, some move permanently.
Back in nineties, there were mostly engineers leaving for plumpy jobs in Chinese state companies, but in this wave I see far more regular people.
Am Russian, a software engineering consultant, currently living in Switzerland, do not plan to come back to Russia if I can help it, conditions there are rapidly deteriorating (more socially than economically), especially since 2014. Currently doing some work to reverse the damage that Russian government did to social media and information sharing in general.
Do you have family who remain? If so, how do they view your life abroad?
I do. They are more or less apolitical and supportive; but I am very lucky that this is the case. I know many families who has been irreversibly split and their members do not talk to each other due to political conflicts.
What kinds of social deterioration have you observed?
What work, exactly?
A real time network analysis and "tainting" engine, allowing to map bot and sockpuppet account networks and trace the originators of disinformation, currently at the prototype stage (Twitter-only, only simple tracing and tainting propagator algorithms work).
How does it look from your perspective at Russian prospects post-Putin? He's not that old but he has to retire at some point right?
The consensus inside Russia is that Putin now already doesn't hold much of the real power (he used to be a final arbiter between the warring factions), and is kept around as the symbolic figure of authority. From what I see, somebody from the same faction (state security apparatus) will replace Putin, and everything will be more or less the same. Or not -- it is Russia, we are famous for being unpredictable.
Well, if we are talking about IT specialists, it's becoming really worrisome that if you don't leave now you 1) won't be able to in the future 2) won't have the same work environment you are used to inside the country. For context, recent attempt at blocking telegram resulted in blanket bans of hosters networks like aws and digitalocean, some of those include IT sites. None of those have been lifted since btw. Now there is also talk of intranet isolation which a lot of people think has nothing to do with external threats, but instead is intended to control and block more of the resources for russian people. It is common knowledge that every provider is required to install government sanction devices(сорм) that route traffic through itself. Yeah and they started requiring vpn providers to block the sites they ask them to, or get blocked themselves.
I'm not planning to leave Russia just yet, due to being a Russian nationalist with a family, but I can sure answer any questions. The trend (or rather, reversal of previous trend) surely exists.
Upd: HN, the place where you get downvotes by agreeing to answer some questions. That's why I stopped coming.
Upd: HN, the place where you get downvotes by agreeing to answer some questions. That's why I stopped coming.
From your insider's perspective, what's the probable cause/s for this happening? I'm guessing it's because there are better opportunities for a person's career in nearby Europe? And if there is stagnation in job development, is it because of the government's running of the country or are there other factors at play?
The atmosphere is totally unhealthy, wages stagnate or fall for most of workers, and there is no optimism for the future.
In some areas Russia still becomes a better place to live, but if you compare it to Europe proper it still lacks in so many ways and the gap is not closing anytime soon, if not getting wider.
And the only news which come is about new restrictions on public life and political free speech.
As my colleague said to me 5 years back, "all of my canaries are now dead"
In some areas Russia still becomes a better place to live, but if you compare it to Europe proper it still lacks in so many ways and the gap is not closing anytime soon, if not getting wider.
And the only news which come is about new restrictions on public life and political free speech.
As my colleague said to me 5 years back, "all of my canaries are now dead"
> As my colleague said to me 5 years back, "all of my canaries are now dead"
Your colleague should not keep his canaries in a mine in Siberia!
Joke aside, thanks for your comment, sorry for the downvotes, and good luck to you
Your colleague should not keep his canaries in a mine in Siberia!
Joke aside, thanks for your comment, sorry for the downvotes, and good luck to you
This might be unrelated (slightly), but how is Russia coping with things like LGBT?
And how has the 'work life' changed in the last 20 years? Basically, since the Internet became a thing. Can you tell a distinct difference?
And how has the 'work life' changed in the last 20 years? Basically, since the Internet became a thing. Can you tell a distinct difference?
I don't really know any LGBT in person so it's hard to say. I think nobody will bother you if you stay clandestine. I guess the public opinion in this area is shitty but it is universal quality of public opinion in Russia.
I was on internet before my first job so ot is hard to say. It's a mixed bag. There are jobs which are bureaucratic hell (especially in large Soviet-survivor companies outside large cities), there are jobs which pay peanuts and productivity is non-existent (government sector), but then there's modern economy with nice offices, passable atmosphere and fine work-life balance. If you're not in IT and not splurging on natural resources wealth somehow, the pay is low.
I was on internet before my first job so ot is hard to say. It's a mixed bag. There are jobs which are bureaucratic hell (especially in large Soviet-survivor companies outside large cities), there are jobs which pay peanuts and productivity is non-existent (government sector), but then there's modern economy with nice offices, passable atmosphere and fine work-life balance. If you're not in IT and not splurging on natural resources wealth somehow, the pay is low.
As for LGBT - once the society is truly free, tons of people come forward with it. You would be surprised how many around you would fall into this category. I could witness this trend in 3 different countries as it unfolded.
Another thing is, since this 'freedom' for LGBT is relatively very new, most of them experienced very troubled childhood/puberty. It must have been very hard to fit in, not disappoint parents etc. yet feeling so out of place compared to rest of the crowd. Russia as a nation would benefit greatly from such an openness in long term, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Been there once (Elbrus), generally common folks are really nice, but this soviet mindset of fuck-it-all-lets-drink-some-vodka (and other like that) are bane of a modern free Russian society. One of examples how just having a lot of smart people isn't enough if there is enough negative things to counter-balance it. World moved to greener pastures, but Russia still seems like stuck in 1991.
Another thing is, since this 'freedom' for LGBT is relatively very new, most of them experienced very troubled childhood/puberty. It must have been very hard to fit in, not disappoint parents etc. yet feeling so out of place compared to rest of the crowd. Russia as a nation would benefit greatly from such an openness in long term, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Been there once (Elbrus), generally common folks are really nice, but this soviet mindset of fuck-it-all-lets-drink-some-vodka (and other like that) are bane of a modern free Russian society. One of examples how just having a lot of smart people isn't enough if there is enough negative things to counter-balance it. World moved to greener pastures, but Russia still seems like stuck in 1991.
On the first part, they don't. It's pretty common to hate on any kind of lgbt even amongst more educated slices of population like it people.
It is a real risk for your life to be "open gay" in Russia. Sometimes your father can kill you just to "wash out the shame" from the family. Sometimes government can take back adopted child if parents are gay. Russia is a wild country in a lot of aspects, and this one is the most wild.
1. What makes you stay?
2. Were you one of the people who gave Putya credit for fighting corruption and dreamed that he would invest in small business and education, but then those hopes and dreams were crushed?
1. I have a family and I enjoy living in a place where Russian is spoken primarily and Russian culture is dominant.
2. Maybe I was like that before 2008 or so. Didn't make a difference either way.
2. Maybe I was like that before 2008 or so. Didn't make a difference either way.
You call yourself a nationalist -- is patriotism or love of country one of your reasons for staying?
"... nationalist" sounds to me like somebody who wants to impose the power of their nation on other nations. I suppose that's why you got downvoted (I didn't).
A nationalist is someone who holds the well-being of their nation as a high-priority thing. This does not necessarily make a nationalist an enemy of other nations: nationalists are usually preoccupied with the well-being of their own nation, and just want other nations peacefully mind their business.
This is how a nationalist can strongly oppose a nation's current government, when the government is not caring for the nation's prosperity (in the nationalist's eyes).
Most liberation movements across the world were and are openly nationalist.
This is how a nationalist can strongly oppose a nation's current government, when the government is not caring for the nation's prosperity (in the nationalist's eyes).
Most liberation movements across the world were and are openly nationalist.
[deleted]
> Upd: HN, the place where you get downvotes by agreeing to answer some questions. That's why I stopped coming.
That may be because you wrote Russian nationalist (a person with strong patriotic feelings), when you possibly meant Russian national (a citizen of a particular country).
That may be because you wrote Russian nationalist (a person with strong patriotic feelings), when you possibly meant Russian national (a citizen of a particular country).
>Upd: HN, the place where you get downvotes by agreeing to answer some questions. That's why I stopped coming.
I think you might have meant "Russian national" instead of "Russian nationalist". Calling ones self a nationalist around here is highly unpopular because that term is loaded with negative connotations for left leaning upper middle class Americans that mostly make up HN. You say "nationalist" and people think of someone that stands for everything that's the opposite of they do and then they down-vote.
I think you might have meant "Russian national" instead of "Russian nationalist". Calling ones self a nationalist around here is highly unpopular because that term is loaded with negative connotations for left leaning upper middle class Americans that mostly make up HN. You say "nationalist" and people think of someone that stands for everything that's the opposite of they do and then they down-vote.
To me, as a German, doombolt calling himself a Russian nationalist is no signal for downvoting, but rather a signal that the answers that he will give could be from a pro-Russian perspective - so only ask if you are sufficiently open-minded to hear answers that might change your mind or are outside your echo chamber.
Am Russian, software engineer, left ~8 years ago, currently in US (Seattle) on a greencard. Not planning on coming back, or even visiting for what it's worth. In all these 8 years been to Russia once for a week.
Actually Putin just raised the temp a little (because it's became dangerous to live in Russia if you don't like Putin), but this process was predictable and unstoppable: almost every country in the world has better quality of life, climate and level of culture.
Don't be fooled with Dostoyevsky and Chaikovsky legacy - these times are gone and people who had read more than 1 book of Dostoevsky or can name at least one work of Chaikovsky - they are pretty rare, around 0.01% of population. If you have good education - it's a reason to hate you. If you can't afford good education but read a lot of books - it's a reason to hate you even more. And I'm talking not about hatred from kids - adult, grown up people sincerely HATE anybody who loves ANY kind of culture. Books, dancing, music - anything.
So when internet removed the borders, it was just question of time when "brains" will start "draining".
Don't be fooled with Dostoyevsky and Chaikovsky legacy - these times are gone and people who had read more than 1 book of Dostoevsky or can name at least one work of Chaikovsky - they are pretty rare, around 0.01% of population. If you have good education - it's a reason to hate you. If you can't afford good education but read a lot of books - it's a reason to hate you even more. And I'm talking not about hatred from kids - adult, grown up people sincerely HATE anybody who loves ANY kind of culture. Books, dancing, music - anything.
So when internet removed the borders, it was just question of time when "brains" will start "draining".
Doesn’t sound so different from the US.
heh. Do you live in US? If you do (and only if you do), will it be risky for your life, health or freedom to write tweet "I hate POTUS"? Is there a 100% guarantee that you will be beaten by police if you dare enough to show your political disagreement with the president on the street? If no - you're living in a VERY different country.
I'm not fan of US, but comparison of US and Russia is a really ridiculous thing.
I live in the US. I would expect that if I went downtown on a street corner tonight and started screaming "#$%@% the president", I would get some dark looks, and perhaps some covert signs of approval. The police might show up, but if they did, it would be because I was disturbing the peace, not for the content of what I said.
I haven't actually tried the experiment, so I could be under-estimating what the reaction would be. But, yeah, I agree. People who equate the two countries don't get it.
That said, doombolt quoted a colleague as saying "all of my canaries are now dead". Well, most of mine are still alive, but they don't look too healthy...
I haven't actually tried the experiment, so I could be under-estimating what the reaction would be. But, yeah, I agree. People who equate the two countries don't get it.
That said, doombolt quoted a colleague as saying "all of my canaries are now dead". Well, most of mine are still alive, but they don't look too healthy...
Shouldn't we also be asking U.S. citizens whether they're considering leaving due to Trump's presidency?
The short answer is, "we're not at that point yet."
Right now it is still fairly safe to be an "American dissident". There are a lot of things wrong with the US, it has its share of inequality, injustice, corruption and human rights violations, and it seems like we're going more one step forward/two steps back at the moment, but progressive change is still something you can fight for.
There is still a chance of winning, and more importantly, it's still safe to lose. Not in the "things can't get worse" sense, but in the "if you come at the king" sense. In the US, you can challenge the reigning kleptocrats, expose their crimes, embarrass them, and then fail to remove them from power, and while it is frustrating and depressing, you can still live a long and happy life.
It's when that last part stops being true[*] that I would start asking myself if it is time to get out.
Right now it is still fairly safe to be an "American dissident". There are a lot of things wrong with the US, it has its share of inequality, injustice, corruption and human rights violations, and it seems like we're going more one step forward/two steps back at the moment, but progressive change is still something you can fight for.
There is still a chance of winning, and more importantly, it's still safe to lose. Not in the "things can't get worse" sense, but in the "if you come at the king" sense. In the US, you can challenge the reigning kleptocrats, expose their crimes, embarrass them, and then fail to remove them from power, and while it is frustrating and depressing, you can still live a long and happy life.
It's when that last part stops being true[*] that I would start asking myself if it is time to get out.
Trump aside, the US has steadily become more authoritarian and insane since 2001, and the main argument for staying is you might not find anything better outside of the imperial center. Both political parties are basically "banks, looting and eternal war" parties who don't care about ordinary people, and who use political wedge issues, sexual politics and paranoid propaganda to divide the people. Outside of the upper middle class "money spigot" cities most of American HN readers lives in, you see widespread social and physical decay. Nobody is doing anything about it. Most people don't even notice, because they're drugged to the gills and obsessed with what the propaganda tells them about the dangers posed by their fellow countrymen and various invaders and imaginary bugaboos, such as the whole "Muh Russia" conspiracy theory touted in most of the mass media, or the "AI apocalypse" nonsense the Davos types are presently selling us to excuse not fixing bridges and the opioid epidemic.
Arguments for staying: high rate of pay I guess. Also, maybe some people enjoy living this way. I don't!
Arguments for staying: high rate of pay I guess. Also, maybe some people enjoy living this way. I don't!
That's kind of a convincing argument.
Ugh, the both sides are bad trope combined with a ton of “my feels” argument.
There’s just a tremendous amount to unpack here.
The United States is a vast, nonhomogenous, capitalistic culture with it’s fair share of issues.
The war in Iraq was a travesty and reconstruction efforts were unmitigated money grabs by a certain subset of well connected contractors.
The war in Afghanistan has gone on for almost two decades and appears unlikely to ever be “won” in any traditional sense of the word.
Despite that, our continuing presence there is actually a rather mature decision to not let millions of Afghani peoples fall back under the oppressive and horrid Taliban rule they were under before.
We have issues with undue corporate influence, and the issue of voting weight disproportionality among our citizens when the Senate, gerrymandering, and Electoral College are taken into account are indeed insane.
However. There is a very clear difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans, excluding this horror story of a Presidency, have something like 38 times the number of indictments as compared to Democrats when taken on an equal number of years in power.
Republicans consistently expand the deficit while cutting social programs.
They investigate Benghazi for six years then moan about a two year investigation.
Enough about that distinction, but it goes on. The Republicans are a drastically different party than the Democrats. And no, the Democrats aren’t perfect.
But you know who had plans for fixing infrastructure and the opiod crisis? Democrats. And they still do. Go look at their policy positions. Staggeringly enough there actually well thought out and decent, progressive policy initiatives laid on Sanders’, Warren’s, and Clinton’s websites.
Finally. The young people of America are fantastic. Gay rights have moved forward dramatically in the last two decades. The MeToo movement is helping to stamp out a culture of sexualization and rape throughout our industries.
We produce culture, and planes, and tremendous advancements in science, and research.
And our framework has held up pretty damn well against a clearly authoratative demagogue.
The post WWII period which has been centrally defined by the rise of American Hegemony features plenty of mistakes, but it’s also been the singular most peaceful era of global history and seen the greatest decrease in world poverty.
So please don’t reduce us to “drugged to muh gills” and “endless war”.
There’s just a tremendous amount to unpack here.
The United States is a vast, nonhomogenous, capitalistic culture with it’s fair share of issues.
The war in Iraq was a travesty and reconstruction efforts were unmitigated money grabs by a certain subset of well connected contractors.
The war in Afghanistan has gone on for almost two decades and appears unlikely to ever be “won” in any traditional sense of the word.
Despite that, our continuing presence there is actually a rather mature decision to not let millions of Afghani peoples fall back under the oppressive and horrid Taliban rule they were under before.
We have issues with undue corporate influence, and the issue of voting weight disproportionality among our citizens when the Senate, gerrymandering, and Electoral College are taken into account are indeed insane.
However. There is a very clear difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans, excluding this horror story of a Presidency, have something like 38 times the number of indictments as compared to Democrats when taken on an equal number of years in power.
Republicans consistently expand the deficit while cutting social programs.
They investigate Benghazi for six years then moan about a two year investigation.
Enough about that distinction, but it goes on. The Republicans are a drastically different party than the Democrats. And no, the Democrats aren’t perfect.
But you know who had plans for fixing infrastructure and the opiod crisis? Democrats. And they still do. Go look at their policy positions. Staggeringly enough there actually well thought out and decent, progressive policy initiatives laid on Sanders’, Warren’s, and Clinton’s websites.
Finally. The young people of America are fantastic. Gay rights have moved forward dramatically in the last two decades. The MeToo movement is helping to stamp out a culture of sexualization and rape throughout our industries.
We produce culture, and planes, and tremendous advancements in science, and research.
And our framework has held up pretty damn well against a clearly authoratative demagogue.
The post WWII period which has been centrally defined by the rise of American Hegemony features plenty of mistakes, but it’s also been the singular most peaceful era of global history and seen the greatest decrease in world poverty.
So please don’t reduce us to “drugged to muh gills” and “endless war”.
I'm sorry: I do not share your optimistic views that there is one side better than the other. I look, in fact, at people who have such views as dupes who are making the country worse. "You" and the US as a whole do not produce "culture, and planes, and tremendous advancements in science, and research" -these are achievements of the US in the cold war era. They stopped post cold war; the country is now a sheep shearing operation fueled by eternal war. The bipartisan consensus is: drug the population, eternal war and keep the peons fighting each other while we pick their pockets and slowly enslave them. Were you not sentient during the Obama administration? That's as left wing as we're gonna get. It was basically the Goldman-Bush administration ... with a shitty republican health care plan.
FWIIW I was born in the US and lived here almost my entire life; I don't plan on dying here. Good on you for sticking it out: I'll vote with my feet while I still can.
FWIIW I was born in the US and lived here almost my entire life; I don't plan on dying here. Good on you for sticking it out: I'll vote with my feet while I still can.
Yes because it’s always been the Democrats who’ve opposed making healthcare better.
And the Democrats who started those wars.
And the Democrats who give tax cuts to the wealthy.
And the Democrats who get indicted for corruption constantly.
The idea that the Obama administration is as left as we can get is some seriously revisionist history which disregards which party was continually blocking any attempt at progress the other party made.
The Democrats never blocked Supreme court nominees for a year, or stone walled any attempt at legislation put forth by the other party.
No Democratic Senate Majority Leader ever said “our only goal is to make this guy a one term President”. And during the Bush years there were many examples of bipartisan initiatives which went forward.
That all ended after Obama’s second year as President when Republican’s won the House and Senate and decided the only thing they would be for was being against Obama.
You’re placing the blame on both parties for the Obama administration and yet only one party is to blame for the abject lack of forward progress during that administration.
And despite that, under Obama millions and millions of American’s gained healthcare, gays got the right to marry, the United States came out of an absolutely tremendous recession, the US scaled back it’s wars in the Middle East, and the US regained some of the respect it lost under the Bush administration.
And yes, I, and the US as a whole absolutely produce tremendous amounts of culture, technology, science, and research.
No idea where you think Hollywood movies come from, or many of the advances in healthcare, or silicon valley came from.
And the Democrats who started those wars.
And the Democrats who give tax cuts to the wealthy.
And the Democrats who get indicted for corruption constantly.
The idea that the Obama administration is as left as we can get is some seriously revisionist history which disregards which party was continually blocking any attempt at progress the other party made.
The Democrats never blocked Supreme court nominees for a year, or stone walled any attempt at legislation put forth by the other party.
No Democratic Senate Majority Leader ever said “our only goal is to make this guy a one term President”. And during the Bush years there were many examples of bipartisan initiatives which went forward.
That all ended after Obama’s second year as President when Republican’s won the House and Senate and decided the only thing they would be for was being against Obama.
You’re placing the blame on both parties for the Obama administration and yet only one party is to blame for the abject lack of forward progress during that administration.
And despite that, under Obama millions and millions of American’s gained healthcare, gays got the right to marry, the United States came out of an absolutely tremendous recession, the US scaled back it’s wars in the Middle East, and the US regained some of the respect it lost under the Bush administration.
And yes, I, and the US as a whole absolutely produce tremendous amounts of culture, technology, science, and research.
No idea where you think Hollywood movies come from, or many of the advances in healthcare, or silicon valley came from.
Look at you, litigating this as if it's a party thing. It's not a party thing. It's a false oppos thing. Nobody in this country except the "fringe" candidates, who are purposefully kept fringe, are talking about real issues. You aren't either; you're talking about meaningless emotional bullet points. You've drunk so much kool aide, blaming the dumb rednecks for all your problems, you might as well be writing the stuff.
Many advances in healthcare? Name one! The US population's average lifespan is declining; something that has never happened before. Yay muh "health care" and alleged medical advancements. Hollywood is garbage, and I don't watch it, basically, at all. Your civilization is declining, physically, culturally, even technologically. The last interesting technological thing the US did was search engines, and that happened in the 20th century.
Anyway, you can console yourself with the fact that I'm leaving! And every time I interact with people like you, or your ideological opposite, I'm more determined to GTFO the sinking ship while I still can.
Many advances in healthcare? Name one! The US population's average lifespan is declining; something that has never happened before. Yay muh "health care" and alleged medical advancements. Hollywood is garbage, and I don't watch it, basically, at all. Your civilization is declining, physically, culturally, even technologically. The last interesting technological thing the US did was search engines, and that happened in the 20th century.
Anyway, you can console yourself with the fact that I'm leaving! And every time I interact with people like you, or your ideological opposite, I'm more determined to GTFO the sinking ship while I still can.
I've often thought this as well as we basically are just making marginal advancements at this point in things like computing power (hey, let's shrink this some more or add more cores). The nuclear power industry is a sinking ship (wind, solar, and storage won't be enough), and we lose more freedoms every year.
However...where else would you go? A Nordic country? Switzerland? I think you would want some place high on the freedom list that has a good economy and also a strong enough military to not have to worry about getting steamrolled. I don't think there are too many that meet that list.
However...where else would you go? A Nordic country? Switzerland? I think you would want some place high on the freedom list that has a good economy and also a strong enough military to not have to worry about getting steamrolled. I don't think there are too many that meet that list.
If you're serious about leaving, you have to war game it out in your head for what your personal future looks like in the US versus somewhere else; depends on what you do for money, what your net worth is, what kind of freedoms are important to you, whether or not you have a family to worry about and so on. What's the worst thing that could happen in country X,Y,Z; what is the median outcome, etc. It's a simple calculation for me and lots of places work.
Switzerland is hard to beat as far as long term stability goes, but one of the reasons it is hard to beat is they don't just let anybody in.
Switzerland is hard to beat as far as long term stability goes, but one of the reasons it is hard to beat is they don't just let anybody in.
Yea, I've thought about living in another country before for various reasons including adventure, but once you start a family a lot of stuff gets complicated fast.
Yea...a little weird as an American citizen, I have trouble comprehending places which basically don't ever let you become a citizen.
Yea...a little weird as an American citizen, I have trouble comprehending places which basically don't ever let you become a citizen.
Trump is very bad, but the more worrying thing is that which he is a symptom of. That does make my family consider leaving often. Put it this way, if trump had acted like a reasonable person during the election, then gotten elected, and acted like he does now, and americans were apalled by it and his approval rating were 20%, and congress rebuked him, I wouldn't worry at all.
That his approval rating holds steady at 42% no matter how awful he gets, and that congress supports him is what is super disturbing.
That his approval rating holds steady at 42% no matter how awful he gets, and that congress supports him is what is super disturbing.
Funny you should ask, but as someone who's left Russia 8 years ago to come to the US, I'm now considering other options. There's a lot of reasons, but Trump is definitely one of the big ones.
As someone who is currently living in Russia (not voluntarily, I was born there and still haven't managed to get out), I can see the results of the brain drain myself. I'm currently trying to hire a Python programmer for the company I work at, and the quality of the candidates I have to interview is absolutely dire. Even though the pay for this position is really good. I'm pretty sure anyone half-decent has left the country already.
Just out of curiosity, what salary you compare with when saying it's really good? Salary is not the only motivator. What is the size of your company? How it is rated as an employer?
Anyone think this report might be biased? They picked immigrants who have settled in San Fransisco, New York, London and Berlin. These are alpha cities that attract the best talent and requires considerable effort from the individual to thrive there.
They do have the number of immigrants per country. But it is very possible that the people who ended up in, say, Rural Colorado, don't have the same profiles as those the survey picked.
They do have the number of immigrants per country. But it is very possible that the people who ended up in, say, Rural Colorado, don't have the same profiles as those the survey picked.
Just for context, the Atlantic council is a think tank created to support nato and the American-European alliance in general, so take this with the appropriate numbers of grains of salt.
I'll take them with a grain of salt when you post a counter argument with numbers.
Source may be biased but that doesn't change that Russia is country of majority warmongering idiots. Small minority who doesn't agree with this are either brainwashed or emigrate.
Or for a more aggressive line "you know how the US has been agitating for war with Russia for the last decade or so? Well, you can partially blame these guys."
Also, speaking of foreign interference: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/support/supporters
Also, speaking of foreign interference: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/support/supporters
So Russia annexes Crimea and sends troops into Eastern Ukrain and Georgian territory, even shooting down an airliner, and it's the US agitating for war. Really?
Or maybe those were proportionate, even restrained responses to warmongering activities by the US, such as.... er... the Obama attempt at a diplomatic 'reset' with Russia perhaps? Maybe it was scrapping the Bush era defence shield plan that pushed them over the edge, or maybe cancelling sanctions against the Russian arms export agency was the last straw.
In fact this is probably literally true. If there's anything we've learned about Putin, it's that cutting him slack just gives him more rope with which to hang you later.
Or maybe those were proportionate, even restrained responses to warmongering activities by the US, such as.... er... the Obama attempt at a diplomatic 'reset' with Russia perhaps? Maybe it was scrapping the Bush era defence shield plan that pushed them over the edge, or maybe cancelling sanctions against the Russian arms export agency was the last straw.
In fact this is probably literally true. If there's anything we've learned about Putin, it's that cutting him slack just gives him more rope with which to hang you later.
The US fomented a coup in Ukraine, an effort the Atlantic Council was deeply involved in, and the east of Ukraine has historically always been a part of Russia. We're presently overtly looting the place 3 ways to Christmas; something you'd know if we had a media system which allowed people to notice. FWIIW I've been in Crimea before the annexation, and my informal poll is those people wanted to be part of Russia (they tried to secede from Ukraine in 95).
Wake me up when Russia foments a coup in Canada and the US annexes Vancouver or whatever.
Russian government isn't nice, but the US and Nato have done nothing but make the situation worse, and justify Russian repression.
Wake me up when Russia foments a coup in Canada and the US annexes Vancouver or whatever.
Russian government isn't nice, but the US and Nato have done nothing but make the situation worse, and justify Russian repression.
The east of Ukraine voted for independence by 83%. So much for historically part of Russia! Many of the people voting for Russia in Crime were, er, Russian citizens working there. That's not an excuse for annexation. I happen to have some sympathy for Russia claims on Crimea for historical reasons, but annexation is many steps to far and what they've done to the Donbas and sealing off the Sea of Azov coast is utterly inexcusable.
I just don't accept that the US fomented anything in Ukraine. The people on the streets were Ukrianian citizens. Legitimate native protesters are routinely painted as foreign agents, but that doesn't make it the case.
There is no real reason for Ukrain and Russia to be at odds like this. Ukrainians have done nothing whatever to deserve the shoddy, dishonest knives in the back Russia has been dishing out to them. Ordinary Russians should be ashamed and humiliated by the way their government is ruthlessly betraying Ukrain and bullying ordinary Ukrainians at every turn. All they wanted was to function as an independent state and have friendly relations with the rest of Europe, but this was too much for Putin to stomach. What kind of example would that set for Russians?
Ukraine now has an active, boisterous and unruly democracy just as it should. That's a sign of health, compared to the sham opposition groups that always vote with the government and suspiciously overwhelming approval ratings you commonly get under oppressive regimes.
I just don't accept that the US fomented anything in Ukraine. The people on the streets were Ukrianian citizens. Legitimate native protesters are routinely painted as foreign agents, but that doesn't make it the case.
There is no real reason for Ukrain and Russia to be at odds like this. Ukrainians have done nothing whatever to deserve the shoddy, dishonest knives in the back Russia has been dishing out to them. Ordinary Russians should be ashamed and humiliated by the way their government is ruthlessly betraying Ukrain and bullying ordinary Ukrainians at every turn. All they wanted was to function as an independent state and have friendly relations with the rest of Europe, but this was too much for Putin to stomach. What kind of example would that set for Russians?
Ukraine now has an active, boisterous and unruly democracy just as it should. That's a sign of health, compared to the sham opposition groups that always vote with the government and suspiciously overwhelming approval ratings you commonly get under oppressive regimes.
The "boisterous democracy" in Ukraine is presently stage managed by the US. For the love of god, Nuland-Kagan was caught by Russian spooks picking who was going to run what, like an imperial gauleiter. Yes, the white shirt bros in the West (who I deeply sympathize with, speaking of deep sympathies) acted as cannon fodder for our little project, but that doesn't mean its some spontaneous anything; it's a bloody imperial project, just like the attempts to remove Maduro in Venezuela. FWIIW I have business interests in Ukraine and know some of these people. It's a US satrapy from top to bottom.
I don't think the Russians are innocent snowflakes, and I'd sure as hell rather live in the US than Russia, but it's super obvious what their grievances are, and that the US continuing to push NATO closer and closer to Moscow, and our various ham handed attempts to influence their political system is hugely dangerous.
I don't think the Russians are innocent snowflakes, and I'd sure as hell rather live in the US than Russia, but it's super obvious what their grievances are, and that the US continuing to push NATO closer and closer to Moscow, and our various ham handed attempts to influence their political system is hugely dangerous.
Frankly, I'm currently for as aggressive and restrictive a containment policy against Russia as possible. We've seen what Obama's 'reset' did - it created the diplomatic space for Russia to maul Ukraine. Giving Russia any slack whatsoever is a terrible mistake every time, they always use it to make more trouble. Just ask Georgia.
Well, I disagree with this view. I do not want to risk nuclear war with Russia over ... Latvia. Let alone Georgia (who shelled Russian troops -presumably you forgot about this part; also the part about how Russia left Georgia, because it's not really expansionist the way you seem to think it is). Or Ukraine. I mean, cool heavy metal records, and I like khachapuri as much as the next guy; it isn't something I care about enough to risk living in radioactive cinders. I do not see the US as world policeman, and do not trust the scumbags running the place to do a good job of it even if I did think that was a good idea.
Since you bring up Georgia; how do you explain how our dude in Georgia, Saakashvili, showed up running a big chunk of Ukraine for a while? Does that not seem shady and "the US running Ukraine like a satrapy" to you?
Since you bring up Georgia; how do you explain how our dude in Georgia, Saakashvili, showed up running a big chunk of Ukraine for a while? Does that not seem shady and "the US running Ukraine like a satrapy" to you?
The risk there is that you’ll end up just rolling over every time Russia waves a nuke at you. Something they are very much willing to do.
Shelling Russian troops. As I remember it, that mostly involved Russian tropps, er, on Georgian territory. It was a messy conflict though.
As for Saakashvili, last I checked he wasn’t an American, so what does he have to do with America running anything?
Of course I know the answer. Trying to smear the activities of local citizens, by blaming their activities on foreign powers, is a despicable attempt at de-legitimisation that’s frankly shameful.
Even if I were to let that pass though. Suppose all those Ukrainian citizens out on the streets in the Orange Revolution were all paid US agents. That’s between Ukrain and the US, or between Russia and the US. How does it in any way justify the appalling treatment of ordinary Ukrainians and Georgians by Russia? How can Russia justify waging war against these nations on the basis of the actions of a third party? It makes no sense, of course because it’s a naked attempt to de-legitimise local citizens and change the subject.
Shelling Russian troops. As I remember it, that mostly involved Russian tropps, er, on Georgian territory. It was a messy conflict though.
As for Saakashvili, last I checked he wasn’t an American, so what does he have to do with America running anything?
Of course I know the answer. Trying to smear the activities of local citizens, by blaming their activities on foreign powers, is a despicable attempt at de-legitimisation that’s frankly shameful.
Even if I were to let that pass though. Suppose all those Ukrainian citizens out on the streets in the Orange Revolution were all paid US agents. That’s between Ukrain and the US, or between Russia and the US. How does it in any way justify the appalling treatment of ordinary Ukrainians and Georgians by Russia? How can Russia justify waging war against these nations on the basis of the actions of a third party? It makes no sense, of course because it’s a naked attempt to de-legitimise local citizens and change the subject.
You don't have a good answer for why Russia left Georgia, do you? If Russia were an expansionist bully, rather than a bunch of paranoids who would really rather NATO not encroach on its borders (or Georgian hotheads shelling its troops on a disputed border), you'd think they'd have stayed in Georgia, wouldn't you?
Saakashvili is no longer a "local citizen of Ukraine" the last time I checked. He was a US puppet, imposed on Odesa Oblast. I don't think he'd ever BEEN to Odesa before; we were keeping him on ice in Brooklyn (oddly over an apartment I've stayed in) after his insane attempt to invade Abkhazia.
I suppose by your lights, the US isn't presently fomenting revolution in Venezuela, and Pinochet was totally a native Chilean organic response to Allende. Fine: if the last three years has taught us anything, it is that some people will believe anything as long as it is told in the US media.
Anyway, even if the Russian does do something crazy like attempt to take Georgia, I really don't care! It's not my business. I don't want a nuclear war over Georgia. This is a legitimate and sane political position, which somehow the military industrial complex has convinced people is actually crazy talk and that I should risk duke nukem for a country 5000 miles away most people confuse with a southern state (which has 3x the population of Georgia the country).
Saakashvili is no longer a "local citizen of Ukraine" the last time I checked. He was a US puppet, imposed on Odesa Oblast. I don't think he'd ever BEEN to Odesa before; we were keeping him on ice in Brooklyn (oddly over an apartment I've stayed in) after his insane attempt to invade Abkhazia.
I suppose by your lights, the US isn't presently fomenting revolution in Venezuela, and Pinochet was totally a native Chilean organic response to Allende. Fine: if the last three years has taught us anything, it is that some people will believe anything as long as it is told in the US media.
Anyway, even if the Russian does do something crazy like attempt to take Georgia, I really don't care! It's not my business. I don't want a nuclear war over Georgia. This is a legitimate and sane political position, which somehow the military industrial complex has convinced people is actually crazy talk and that I should risk duke nukem for a country 5000 miles away most people confuse with a southern state (which has 3x the population of Georgia the country).
Imposed rulers don’t usually end up bein the most popular politician in the country, yet somehow Saakashvili managed it. It’s hard to argue he’s illegitimate in the face of public support like that, so bravo for managing it anyway.
Still, the point is none of this America bashing in any way justifies Russia’s appalling abuses of of Ukraine and Ukrainians. It’s like a husband blaming his wife beating on how annoying the neighbours are.
Still, the point is none of this America bashing in any way justifies Russia’s appalling abuses of of Ukraine and Ukrainians. It’s like a husband blaming his wife beating on how annoying the neighbours are.
Sure they do; in the short term, and when given the backing of a nuclear superpower with a media monopoly. Worked for Yushchenko for a while! Now he's the most universally hated former leader in Ukraine.
Saakashvili is presently not even a Ukraine citizen any more! Imagine that!
Saakashvili is presently not even a Ukraine citizen any more! Imagine that!
Maybe this could change your mind?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...
Not really, no. People talk like that about their own and foreign nations politics all the time. Of course the American ambassador to Ukraine has strong opinions about politics in Ukraine. It's their job.
What is being alleged, or at least vaguely suggested, is America causing a coup that would not have otherwise happened. That's simply, obviously not what occurred in Ukraine and anyway they've had many free and open elections since. America and the EU was exerting diplomatic pressure in exactly the same ways as Russia (except for poisoning Ukrainian politicians with Dioxin), none of which justifies military action.
What is being alleged, or at least vaguely suggested, is America causing a coup that would not have otherwise happened. That's simply, obviously not what occurred in Ukraine and anyway they've had many free and open elections since. America and the EU was exerting diplomatic pressure in exactly the same ways as Russia (except for poisoning Ukrainian politicians with Dioxin), none of which justifies military action.
One thing is supporting political groups in another country that benefit you, which is something all countries do.
Another thing is annexing territory of another country, that was given to that country by your previous shared and fair agreement. That agreement also mandated Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons under guarantees that Russia will not threaten it’s territorial borders.
This is how WW2 started - Hitler’s pretense was that he wanted to protect and unite the territories full of Germans that want to be part of fatherland and that were lost in WW1.
Another thing is annexing territory of another country, that was given to that country by your previous shared and fair agreement. That agreement also mandated Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons under guarantees that Russia will not threaten it’s territorial borders.
This is how WW2 started - Hitler’s pretense was that he wanted to protect and unite the territories full of Germans that want to be part of fatherland and that were lost in WW1.
"If you give me the Ruhr, I won't ask for anything more."
"If you give me Austria, I promise I'll stop there."
"Only the Sudetenland. Last one, I promise."
"Danzig... this is really, truly the last one, I swear."
"If you give me Austria, I promise I'll stop there."
"Only the Sudetenland. Last one, I promise."
"Danzig... this is really, truly the last one, I swear."
LIE - The US fomented a coup in Ukraine
LIE - an effort the Atlantic Council was deeply involved in
LIE - the east of Ukraine has historically always been a part of Russia
Highly subjective - my informal poll is those people wanted to be part of Russia (they tried to secede from Ukraine in 95). (other polls pre-war has shown no more than 50/50 pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian)
LIE - the US and Nato have done nothing but make the situation worse, and justify Russian repression.
LIE - an effort the Atlantic Council was deeply involved in
LIE - the east of Ukraine has historically always been a part of Russia
Highly subjective - my informal poll is those people wanted to be part of Russia (they tried to secede from Ukraine in 95). (other polls pre-war has shown no more than 50/50 pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian)
LIE - the US and Nato have done nothing but make the situation worse, and justify Russian repression.
Unlike you, I can provide citations for all of it.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/02/phony-corruption-excus...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Crimean_referendum
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/world/crimea-parliament-v...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Autonomous...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
I can't provide a citation for east ukraine being part of Russia, as all the old maps simply list it as "russia." Even in the brief "independence" of 1917, the East (capital in Karkov) immediately went communist under Russian direction and proceeded to conquer the rest of the place, except for the Polish west, which came later.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/02/phony-corruption-excus...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Crimean_referendum
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/world/crimea-parliament-v...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Autonomous...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
I can't provide a citation for east ukraine being part of Russia, as all the old maps simply list it as "russia." Even in the brief "independence" of 1917, the East (capital in Karkov) immediately went communist under Russian direction and proceeded to conquer the rest of the place, except for the Polish west, which came later.
Putting US-NATO stuff aside: "has historically always been part of Russia" is very bad reason to invade a country, especially in XXI century. Because most (if not all) countries have parts that from some perspective "have historically always been" parts of other countries.
Can you provide a citation to something more reputable than "Consortium News"?
Robert Parry was a great investigative journalist who stuck to factual, skeptical reporting at enormous cost to his career. Joe Lauria is similar. It's true that CN republishes a lot of less reliable articles, but at their core they are a genuine dissident publication. You shouldn't dismiss them so easily.
I'd rather just read Wikileaks Twitter account directly.
> Or maybe those were proportionate, even restrained responses to warmongering activities by the US, such as.... er... the Obama attempt at a diplomatic 'reset' with Russia perhaps? Maybe it was scrapping the Bush era defence shield plan that pushed them over the edge, or maybe cancelling sanctions against the Russian arms export agency was the last straw.
Putin views NATO moving eastward as a threat. He's not totally insane to do so - Hitler nearly broke the USSR starting from the middle of Poland. If he had started from the middle of the Ukraine instead, the USSR might well have not survived.
But that history only makes Putin not totally insane. He's still mostly nuts on this, because first, NATO is a defensive alliance. Second, there is exactly zero appetite in most of the NATO members for any kind of a major war - even a defensive war, I question whether they would actually fight the way the treaty requires them to. And third, the reason NATO is expanding is because those countries feel threatened by Russia and therefore want a big block of allies to protect them. They sought membership in NATO; NATO or the US didn't push them into it. If Russia were less aggressive, those countries would feel less need to join NATO.
Putin views NATO moving eastward as a threat. He's not totally insane to do so - Hitler nearly broke the USSR starting from the middle of Poland. If he had started from the middle of the Ukraine instead, the USSR might well have not survived.
But that history only makes Putin not totally insane. He's still mostly nuts on this, because first, NATO is a defensive alliance. Second, there is exactly zero appetite in most of the NATO members for any kind of a major war - even a defensive war, I question whether they would actually fight the way the treaty requires them to. And third, the reason NATO is expanding is because those countries feel threatened by Russia and therefore want a big block of allies to protect them. They sought membership in NATO; NATO or the US didn't push them into it. If Russia were less aggressive, those countries would feel less need to join NATO.
cat199(2)
The political climate and economic instability, combined with knowledge of historical precedents makes me believe that Russian people’s future is very dim, as is their past over the whole life of that troubled country.
When we immigrated in 2012, I already had a son and as a father I couldn’t find it conscionable to state.
I didn’t want to be someone who decided to stay in Germany of 1935.