Ask HN: How to deal with impostor syndrome when you don't have tech degree?
28 comments
I always think of this story from from Walt Boomer [0].
Backstory: It's right before Gulf War I (1990).
Paraphrased from Gen. Boomer: "General Schwarzkopf asked me 'Boomer, can you get everyone we need to this location by X date?' and I responded 'Yes sir! 100%'.
Immediately after I said that, I thought to myself 'I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how to make that happen.' But we figured it out and that's what happened"
I always think of this because if one of the most experienced and highly trained members of the US armed forces can have that moment of "How the hell am I supposed to do this??", it's ok for the rest of us to have it.
In fact, maybe it's just part of the human condition that we hear that voice no matter how many times we succeed.
That story has gotten me through several tough times and hopefully it can do the same for you.
0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_E._Boomer
Backstory: It's right before Gulf War I (1990).
Paraphrased from Gen. Boomer: "General Schwarzkopf asked me 'Boomer, can you get everyone we need to this location by X date?' and I responded 'Yes sir! 100%'.
Immediately after I said that, I thought to myself 'I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how to make that happen.' But we figured it out and that's what happened"
I always think of this because if one of the most experienced and highly trained members of the US armed forces can have that moment of "How the hell am I supposed to do this??", it's ok for the rest of us to have it.
In fact, maybe it's just part of the human condition that we hear that voice no matter how many times we succeed.
That story has gotten me through several tough times and hopefully it can do the same for you.
0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_E._Boomer
That's sort of how I felt when I took the job -- just kind of thrown into the deep end. I had no idea how I was going to complete my first assignment. I think it's tempting to want to seek comfort in your profession (or anything you do, really), but I guess comfort doesn't necessarily spur much growth.
Whenever I feel like an impostor, I like to go to github and look at other people's code.
Turns out, most of us are pretty bad at this job.
You're a human with a cool brain and an incredible capacity for learning.
Anything you don't know is just an idea whose name you don't know yet.
You're gonna be fine.
Turns out, most of us are pretty bad at this job.
You're a human with a cool brain and an incredible capacity for learning.
Anything you don't know is just an idea whose name you don't know yet.
You're gonna be fine.
Yeah, I think there's a tendency to assume that everyone else is so much more competent than you are. I have to say that being brought in to fix other people's code has helped a lot in building my confidence as at least a decent engineer.
As soon as you accept, not just “realise”, but actually and honestly accept the fact that there’s always going to be somebody more qualified to do whatever it is that you’re doing.. the imposter feelings will vanish ;) so yeah.. you’re not the most qualified. Absolutely all odds are all against you, in any case. So what? Just make the most of any opportunities you’re presented with and make your time worth while ;) That’s how I’ve dealt with it. Has worked well for me, would recommend!
True, I guess focusing on the impostor feeling doesn't really have much practical application to getting the work done and getting paid for it!
Might I suggest that maybe having imposter syndrome is not such a bad thing. You could interpret it as being keenly aware of gaps in your understanding. It's also much better to admit when you don't know something than to act as if you do.
It's also important to recognize that just because you're competent in one aspect of software engineering, doesn't mean that you would be in another. That being said, maybe you're weighing technical skills too highly. By now you must've realized that technical chops are only one variable in the equation that makes a good software engineer. Other things such as communicating through writing and speaking, understanding the needs of the business, being able to get different teams in an organization to work together are important. One could even argue that they're more important as you get promoted and move up the career ladder and are tasked with more leadership tasks.
It's also important to recognize that just because you're competent in one aspect of software engineering, doesn't mean that you would be in another. That being said, maybe you're weighing technical skills too highly. By now you must've realized that technical chops are only one variable in the equation that makes a good software engineer. Other things such as communicating through writing and speaking, understanding the needs of the business, being able to get different teams in an organization to work together are important. One could even argue that they're more important as you get promoted and move up the career ladder and are tasked with more leadership tasks.
Yeah, I think I need to keep that in mind -- that some of the "softer" skills are just as important. I can see how leadership pushes you away from some of the nitty-gritty of the code.
Realize that you've been in this situation before and that as you got more experience you developed a sense of competency. It's not "fake it till you make it". It's you taking whatever knowledge and skills you have right now and applying them to the best of your ability with the idea that if you find yourself completely out of your depth on all some part then you'll simply ask for help. Even someone who has taken all the formal courses still needs practical experience. If you really think you're missing all that much try taking a couple courses or reading through a couple texts. Trust that management is pushing you because they see the potential in you and that they are willing to invest in your improvement.
Asking for help is something I'm trying to force myself to do more and more. It's hard to shake the paranoia that you're revealing a weakness that will eventually come back to haunt you, but I know that's an attitude that's antithetical to success.
I dropped out of college when I was in my 20's due to the fact that I was already in the tech industry and making 3 times what my piers where making. I returned 15 years later and got a tech degree, If I had to do it over I would not have went for a tech degree. I was self taught and had a good grasp on programming and architecture by the time I returned to school. I figured I am in tech so I should get a tech degree. If I where to do it again, I would have went for accounting or applied mathematics or even EE.
This is good to know, thanks!
I suggest you dabble ... go buy a textbook and have a read. Once you get a sense of what you don't know, it won't scare you as much. Or at the very least you'll know what you don't know.
This is a great idea, thanks for the advice!
> Now, though, the impostor syndrome is back
Here's my 2cents; You are actually The REAL DEAL because you bootstrapped yourself. I'm not saying that the peeps doing AI research at Carnegie Mellon are pretenders, but you have at least as much claim in Tech as they do--at least the way I see it.
GL and Great Job!
Here's my 2cents; You are actually The REAL DEAL because you bootstrapped yourself. I'm not saying that the peeps doing AI research at Carnegie Mellon are pretenders, but you have at least as much claim in Tech as they do--at least the way I see it.
GL and Great Job!
I appreciate the encouragement! Sometimes I have to just assess the situation more objectively and tell myself "you're making a good living at this stuff, you can't be that terrible at it!"
People that never fear they aren't good enough for a challenge, are either delusional or just going nowhere. In my experience, imposter syndrome can rather help you grow, as long as it doesn't cripple you.
Find someone senior and talk to them about basic software architecture. If you know the difference between tight and loose coupling; know what the single responsibility principle is; and have a healthy dislike of copy and paste code; then you're good to go, frankly.
Awesome, I think I know this stuff but just not the exact name for it. Thanks for the help.
Why would having an education make an idea or decision any more valid? A good idea is a good idea is a good idea.
Also I really shouldn't have to list the famous tech entrepreneurs who dropped out of college or lack degrees entirely because its pretty much a cliche by now.
Also I really shouldn't have to list the famous tech entrepreneurs who dropped out of college or lack degrees entirely because its pretty much a cliche by now.
I think it's just a confidence thing -- when you learn an idea in a class, you know it's something that's been validated by your professor and whoever wrote the book. When you come up with it or learn it on your own, you don't have the same validation that you're on the right track and not just repeating someone else's mistake.
Ok I see what you're saying. But if you have learned something through practice, can't you validate it by researching / googling it? See what people are saying on stackoverflow, in blog posts, in books etc.? Also many university film and publish their lectures on youtube, i.e. Stanford Software Engineering course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMDCCdjyW8&list=PL3BD1325B3...
> But after years of good performance reviews, successful projects, and promotions, I started to finally allow myself to believe that I knew what I was doing.
Back to your original post, this kind of learning is FAR more valuable than anything you will learn in university. You have learned through practice and experience. I have probably interviewed at at ~20 different companies in the last 6 years and never once have I been asked a single question about my university degree, literally never. Nobody cares about them. They know that its the experience that counts, not the degree (though I'm not saying degrees are worthless either). In my experience I would say around 40% of the software developers I have worked with either do not have a degree at all or have a degree in a completed unrelated subject (i.e. Philosophy). The idea that one developer would discount another developer's idea because he doesn't have a degree in computer science is actually laughable.
Though I'm only saying all of that in order to tell you that a degree is not the answer to your imposter syndrome. The answer is to educate yourself, read books, experiment with different technologies and system architectures, read blog posts and discussions, watch conference talks, go to a conference, join slack channels and discuss topics with other developers. You should feel confident that you know what you're talking about because you have put the effort in to determine what the best solution is based off of research and practical experience, not because you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (assuming your in the US) to have some guy tell you ideas about software engineering which are probably out of date anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMDCCdjyW8&list=PL3BD1325B3...
> But after years of good performance reviews, successful projects, and promotions, I started to finally allow myself to believe that I knew what I was doing.
Back to your original post, this kind of learning is FAR more valuable than anything you will learn in university. You have learned through practice and experience. I have probably interviewed at at ~20 different companies in the last 6 years and never once have I been asked a single question about my university degree, literally never. Nobody cares about them. They know that its the experience that counts, not the degree (though I'm not saying degrees are worthless either). In my experience I would say around 40% of the software developers I have worked with either do not have a degree at all or have a degree in a completed unrelated subject (i.e. Philosophy). The idea that one developer would discount another developer's idea because he doesn't have a degree in computer science is actually laughable.
Though I'm only saying all of that in order to tell you that a degree is not the answer to your imposter syndrome. The answer is to educate yourself, read books, experiment with different technologies and system architectures, read blog posts and discussions, watch conference talks, go to a conference, join slack channels and discuss topics with other developers. You should feel confident that you know what you're talking about because you have put the effort in to determine what the best solution is based off of research and practical experience, not because you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (assuming your in the US) to have some guy tell you ideas about software engineering which are probably out of date anyway.
they don't actually teach software design to any meaningful degree in higher-education classes.
your gut might still be wrong. its a very hard thing to judge. but you don't have a real handicap here.
your gut might still be wrong. its a very hard thing to judge. but you don't have a real handicap here.
That's good to know. I think in some cases I know the concept from experience but just don't necessarily know the official term.
I have the engineering degree and resume, and I still feel it.
Well shoot. I guess this is just part of the territory.
You don't. You use that feeling to improve every day. At some point you just have to jump into making certain decisions. And as you gain more and more experience you'll see that you make the right ones most of the time.
Yeah, I think I had enjoyed being comfortable in my skillset, but I can see how that can be the exact moment you stop improving.
Before I got my current job, I had always been pretty tech-savvy, and had even done a little experimental programming and web design, but never took any classes or boot camps. A few years ago, during a 6-week stint on disability, I brushed up on my minimal skills and soon after managed to score a job writing code through a connection I had at the same company.
I had major impostor syndrome for a long time, though it somewhat helped that the projects I worked on had little close oversight or code review that might have revealed my lack of training. But after years of good performance reviews, successful projects, and promotions, I started to finally allow myself to believe that I knew what I was doing.
Now, though, the impostor syndrome is back. My management is pushing me towards leadership, and I’m having a hard time trusting that my ideas about software design are as valid as those of a student who’s taking the formal, higher-education classes that I never did.
Anyone else been in this situation anymore? Any thoughts or tips on how to deal with it?