Aquafaba(aquafaba.com)
aquafaba.com
Aquafaba
http://aquafaba.com/index.html
300 comments
All comments about measuring solids by volume should go under here.
I want to see everything in grams!
It's largely ratio based, so adjust the units as you see fit. I've made batches 4x the listed size, keep under that or it gets super unwieldy.
The ingredients do not have the same density, therefore it will not work to go from a volume-based to a mass-based measurement system by simply replacing the unit.
I use Frink to convert all my ingredients to mass before starting a recipe. It has different units for { sifted, scooped, spooned } x { cake, bread, all-purpose } flour. Different sugar types, etc.
It’s always my first step before baking a recipe the first time.
https://frinklang.org
It’s always my first step before baking a recipe the first time.
https://frinklang.org
I made a tool that converts recipes from different volumes and weights to Grams, perhaps it would be useful here:
https://charlesworth.github.io/recipe-slicer/
Cool, thanks! Can you add whole wheat flour?
sure thing, I just added it, enjoy!
I always wonder how much half a cup actually is, since cups are not standardized (I think). Googling for "cup size" didn't clarify anything either.
Cup is a standard size for measuring liquids: 8 fl oz. It's only a problem for flour, because how much you can fit in a cup varies depending on humidity and how much you pack it.
To add to this, there are at least 3 "cup" sizes for liquid: metric (~250ml), the US version (above, ~236ml) and an imperial cup (~284ml).
Also the Japanese cup [1], which is 200 mL. I (American) have come across it twice (a rice cooker, and a dandan recipe).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29#Japanese_cup
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29#Japanese_cup
A metric cup is exactly 250ml though, not approximately, right?
Except one cup in metric is 250 ml, not the ~236ml that a US cup is.
Thanks! Didn't know that.
> Googling for "cup size" didn't clarify anything either.
Is that because most results are in regards to bras?
Is that because most results are in regards to bras?
If all ingredients are measured in cups, it doesn't actually matter much, since you'd still get good proportions by using any of your cups.
It's problematic if some ingredients are specified by volume, others by weight.
It's problematic if some ingredients are specified by volume, others by weight.
Specifying by volume is also a problem for compressable things like flour, chopped hazelnuts etc.
For reference, this recipe is fairly tolerant, assuming you stay reasonable (don't use some sort of machine press to get your flour into the cup hey?)
The ambiguity can be solved by specifying "heaping" units. One heaping tablespoon, or 1/2 heaping cup, etc.
It's a convention for baking I think. The choc chips will vary in size (I just smash up a block of cooking chocolate), but unless you go to extreme piece sizes, it won't have an impact on the chemistry if you're a little heavy/light (I vote heavy!)
Its an American convention. Europe mostly uses weights.
Pretty sure professional US bakers also work by weight. It’s much simpler and more reliable, especially when you have to deal with aerable dry goods (flours, powdered sugar, cocoa powder) or solids (butter).
Only considering that:
- some recipes can be very finicky regarding ratios,
- e.g. different flour types can vary quite drastically in density
- you can e.g. easily reduce the volume of a flour batch by at least 15% by pouring differently (or simply bumping the container a few times)
going by volume alone still works for most recipes and is quite frankly as easy as it gets.
Going by weight alone also is not entirely scientific though (e.g. moisture of raw ingredients is usually not exact/controlled). And flour can behave differently, based on batch or type, even if you get the weight perfectly right.
So most bakers have their recipes "dialed in", i.e. they have a feel for the right texture, how the dough behaves, how to adjust resting times, etc.
- some recipes can be very finicky regarding ratios,
- e.g. different flour types can vary quite drastically in density
- you can e.g. easily reduce the volume of a flour batch by at least 15% by pouring differently (or simply bumping the container a few times)
going by volume alone still works for most recipes and is quite frankly as easy as it gets.
Going by weight alone also is not entirely scientific though (e.g. moisture of raw ingredients is usually not exact/controlled). And flour can behave differently, based on batch or type, even if you get the weight perfectly right.
So most bakers have their recipes "dialed in", i.e. they have a feel for the right texture, how the dough behaves, how to adjust resting times, etc.
Isnt it a UI/UX question? Most people have measuring cups in their kitchen. Not everyone has a scale.
Most kitchens I know have a scale, but not measuring cups. I mean, why would you need measuring cups, unless you're sent a recipe from somewhere foreign?
We have buckets of measuring cups. It's a particular frustration. They lose their painted markings fairly quickly and it can be hard to tell the 1/4c of one set from the 1/3c of another set, or the 2/3c from the 1c or the 1c from the 1-1/2c. Why is there even a 1-1/2c? Uugh! Melt a 1/4c cup? Guess it's time to buy a fifth set of all the cups all over again so we can have at least one 1/4c. Don't toss any of the old ones just in case the 1/3c goes through the disposal.
We have two kitchen scales. I never get them confused. They're interchangeable.
We have two kitchen scales. I never get them confused. They're interchangeable.
Maybe get some metal measuring cups if the plastic ones keep failing on you? My metal cups have etched markings so they won't wear off
Ok- so... when I don't wash the aquafaba off of the beans in cooking, I get- let's say- "bloated".
I can only imagine eating these could result in a rough approximation of the decibel level of the Dragon taking off from Launch Pad 39A.
I can only imagine eating these could result in a rough approximation of the decibel level of the Dragon taking off from Launch Pad 39A.
Likewise. My brother drinks it (he also drinks the water from when you boil cabbages, hes a strange unit.). I don't get that effect from the cookies, likely because its a fairly small amount across a lot of cookies.
Monospace font for a recipe - a nice touch for the HN crowd.
Those look really good -- how would it taste different if you used egg white instead of aquafaba?
> don't go much below 1/2 cup of almond
Is this just for taste reasons?
Is this just for taste reasons?
Texture and cost. The hazelnut meal tends to be a bit coarser, and is significantly more expensive, so you end up with gritty cookies that don't taste significantly more like hazelnut for more $$.
Waw, i'm surprised almonds are more expensive than hazelnuts where you are! I didn't check but i believe that in france hazelnuts are cheaper. What is sure is that the tree is far more common (in personal gardens).
Melbourne, Australia. I'd love cheap hazelnut meal, its roughly 5 times more expensive than almond.
Child labor on hazelnut farms in Turkey: https://www.rainforest-alliance.org/articles/addressing-chil...
They said hazelnut is more expensive than almonds. Did you make a typo?
I've used aquafaba in cooking a lot, mostly to avoid using so many eggs in baking. And while I've had great results for a few specific recipes, I've also found that it's not a universal egg replacement, and it's hard to tell which recipes it will and won't work in.
I bake a lot of gluten-free and grain-free breads and biscuits, and aquafaba is a great egg replacement in these. Sometimes it even produces a better texture. But in other recipes, like cookies, it doesn't work at all; the dough loses its shape completely and deflates into a puddle.
I've also read about using aquafaba to make meringue or mousse, but I haven't had good luck with that so far. The chickpea taste is strong, and does not go with sugar at all.
I haven't tried using any beans other than chickpeas. Maybe it would work better with different beans.
I bake a lot of gluten-free and grain-free breads and biscuits, and aquafaba is a great egg replacement in these. Sometimes it even produces a better texture. But in other recipes, like cookies, it doesn't work at all; the dough loses its shape completely and deflates into a puddle.
I've also read about using aquafaba to make meringue or mousse, but I haven't had good luck with that so far. The chickpea taste is strong, and does not go with sugar at all.
I haven't tried using any beans other than chickpeas. Maybe it would work better with different beans.
Not disputing this (perhaps different brand/type/recipe) but I have made aquafaba meringues before and was very impressed, didn’t taste of chickpeas at all to me, just like a meringue texture/sugar wise without the 'egginess'.
Yes, I think the amount of chickpea taste varies based on how much the aquafaba is cooked down. (I always make it by boiling dry chickpeas; I don't use canned.) With some more experimentation I can probably get it to work.
This gives me some hope.
I once made vegan tiramisu for a friend using aquafaba made from boiled dry chickpeas, and the sweet/chickpea flavor tasted exactly like the worst kind of vomit-burp imaginable. It is one of probably 2 or 3 of several thousand meals I've ever cooked that I threw directly into the bin after having another person confirm the flavor.
I once made vegan tiramisu for a friend using aquafaba made from boiled dry chickpeas, and the sweet/chickpea flavor tasted exactly like the worst kind of vomit-burp imaginable. It is one of probably 2 or 3 of several thousand meals I've ever cooked that I threw directly into the bin after having another person confirm the flavor.
On the upside you just donated the term “vomit burp” to the world
Nah, Tim Alen did decades ago. He even contributed his shorted version, the "vurp".
My wife uses canned chickpeas for her meringues, with also sugar, cream of tartar, and vanilla. She's made several very successful batches (no bean flavor whatsoever) this way. Probably the vanilla helps mask the flavor, but maybe canned vs. fresh chickpeas also make a difference.
Yeah, different egg substitutes apply depending on what you make. Tofu replaces egg in stir fry - flax replaces it in banana bread - aquafaba works for meringues.
For someone who likes moist banana bread, “flax eggs” are the clear winner.
For a binder or thickener, I've found ground flax seed mixed with water to work better.
Same experience when we tried it. The flavour was not good.
Huh, chocolate chip cookies are the main thing I DO make with aquafaba. I wonder what we are doing differently on that dish? They don't come out as perfect cookies for me (they definitely don't brown as much), but consistency wise is pretty much spot on.
I loosely base my recipe on the one Babish came up with on his channel.
I loosely base my recipe on the one Babish came up with on his channel.
If I had to guess, they're not refrigerating their dough. Chilling dough for 24 hours in the fridge before baking is a game changer for cookies.
I should look into this, maybe refrigerating would help. The recipe I tried was an unusual one (an olive oil dark chocolate chip cookie recipe), and I had made it successfully with eggs before, but trying aquafaba ruined it.
Refrigerating would definitely help, but tbh I usually stick it straight in the oven after dishing it out.
I'd definitely try chocolate chip if you haven't. Playing with other kinds of oils and odd ingredients would probably change it a bit too much for aquafaba to work correctly.
I'd definitely try chocolate chip if you haven't. Playing with other kinds of oils and odd ingredients would probably change it a bit too much for aquafaba to work correctly.
[deleted]
My wife made meringues (technically macarons) with it, the result was fine in texture but maybe there was a bit of a deeper nuttier flavour than usual as you said, but it worked for me. She did use chickpea water too. It would probably go better with a rich filling like chocolate ganache.
Maybe throw in some Xanthan Gum. Ive had some good results using that...
Can you give examples of things that it gives a better texture in?
I have two recipes that use aquafaba: a grain-free biscuit recipe and a grain-free flatbread recipe. A lot of gluten-free breads use eggs because they need a binder to replace the gluten, but the eggs taste, well, eggy. The aquafaba makes it lighter, and not eggy, so it seems more like actual bread.
Can you share? I wouldn't mind giving that a try.
Here's the biscuit recipe. I originally adapted it from a paleo recipe that I can't seem to find again, but I've made enough changes to make it my own. (Because of the aquafaba, and arguably the potato starch, it's not paleo after my changes.)
- 3/4 cup potato starch
- 1/4 cup coconut flour
- 1/4 cup almond flour
- 3/4 tsp baking soda
- 1/4 tsp baking powder
- 1/4 tsp salt
- 1/4 cup olive oil
- 1/4 cup water
- 3 tbsp aquafaba
- 1 tsp apple cider vinegar
Mix dry ingredients in a bowl. Add oil and water, stir. Add aquafaba, stir.
At this point, it should stick together but still be somewhat lumpy. If it does not stick together, add more water, but be careful--don't add enough water that it becomes smooth!
Add vinegar, stir, and spoon individual biscuits onto a baking sheet lined with parchment paper. Should make 7-9 biscuits. Cook at 350 degrees F for 12-15 minutes.
These biscuits are excellent with olive oil and vinegar. They reheat well, and have a crumbly texture that reminds me of Southern-style biscuits.
The flatbread recipe is similar, but with no baking soda or vinegar, and the flours replaced with 1 cup tapioca starch and 1/3 cup coconut flour. Some extra olive oil helps too, and maybe some oregano.
- 3/4 cup potato starch
- 1/4 cup coconut flour
- 1/4 cup almond flour
- 3/4 tsp baking soda
- 1/4 tsp baking powder
- 1/4 tsp salt
- 1/4 cup olive oil
- 1/4 cup water
- 3 tbsp aquafaba
- 1 tsp apple cider vinegar
Mix dry ingredients in a bowl. Add oil and water, stir. Add aquafaba, stir.
At this point, it should stick together but still be somewhat lumpy. If it does not stick together, add more water, but be careful--don't add enough water that it becomes smooth!
Add vinegar, stir, and spoon individual biscuits onto a baking sheet lined with parchment paper. Should make 7-9 biscuits. Cook at 350 degrees F for 12-15 minutes.
These biscuits are excellent with olive oil and vinegar. They reheat well, and have a crumbly texture that reminds me of Southern-style biscuits.
The flatbread recipe is similar, but with no baking soda or vinegar, and the flours replaced with 1 cup tapioca starch and 1/3 cup coconut flour. Some extra olive oil helps too, and maybe some oregano.
Aquafaba is amazing. But since we're talking about egg replacers, here's one even more remarkable:
Carbonated water.
No joke. Carbonated water can seamlessly replace egg in almost all things where the egg provides some rising / fluffy texture (not so much binding, like aquafaba does). It won't be stepping in your quiche any time soon, but cookies, brownies, cupcakes, anything with a fluffy inside.
1/4 cup of water equals one egg. Try it, you'll be amazed.
https://iambaker.net/egg-substitutes/
Carbonated water.
No joke. Carbonated water can seamlessly replace egg in almost all things where the egg provides some rising / fluffy texture (not so much binding, like aquafaba does). It won't be stepping in your quiche any time soon, but cookies, brownies, cupcakes, anything with a fluffy inside.
1/4 cup of water equals one egg. Try it, you'll be amazed.
https://iambaker.net/egg-substitutes/
I tried making a fried egg using this suggestion and it did not turn out as well as I had hoped.
This is gold
I'd like to point out that GP's comment went entirely over my head as I was scrolling past quickly, and your comment is the only reason I came back, took a closer look, and chuckled heartily.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Interesting, is carbonated water an emulsifier? I was under the impression this was the purpose of eggs in most recipes.
Eggs do a lot of things and carbonated water does almost none of them. The CO2 bubbles are ghetto leavening (which I guess would replace yeast) so overall, I think this is totally wrong.
> not so much binding
Not as a substitute, but my Galician grandmother always add some carbonated water to the pancake (think more like crêpes) batter, it helps a bit with retaining some bubbles but mostly make them more tender.
I have experience with a bit of beer or old leftover sour dough for the same use (slightly thicker and fluffier crêpes).
What's the best way to get carbonated water at home? Is it to buy it, or is there an efficient way to produce/consume carbonated water at home?
did not work for scrambled eggs
Why would you substitute egg in cookies if nearly all of calories come from sugar and flour anyway?
Not sure if this is a serious question, but other than the possibility for allergies and concerns about hormones, eggs cannot produced at mass scale in an economical, sustainable manner, without killing lots of chickens & chicks
> concerns about hormones
are there chickens anywhere that are given hormones?
As far as I have been able to determine, this is a myth, and the reason they grow quickly is selective breeding.
For example, in Australia https://theconversation.com/ten-facts-you-need-to-know-about...
are there chickens anywhere that are given hormones?
As far as I have been able to determine, this is a myth, and the reason they grow quickly is selective breeding.
For example, in Australia https://theconversation.com/ten-facts-you-need-to-know-about...
If it's the same objection that is raised against milk drinking, then it's more about natural hormones in the milk/egg that is intended for a calf/chick. Not artificially introduced hormones.
eggs can soon be sorted out before there's a chick, saw it the other day. At day 6 they can now tell if it's a male or female egg and put it away, before it's gonna develop.
It's not that simple.
Aborting chicks is better than killing them post-birth, but even so, egg-laying birds will still eventually be killed off and turned into meat/byproducts -- and the cruelty-free environments don't scale. Chickens just aren't really built to lay that many eggs, and ultimately there doesn't seem to be any way to optimize industry-level farming to care about animal health/happiness. At best we get much more expensive products that appeal to a minority of the market. Especially when you realize that a nontrivial percentage of the eggs you eat are coming from restaurants and as ingredients in pre-made foods, where there's basically no current market pressure to ethically source those materials.
In theory there could be a version of the egg industry that avoided most of these problems (yes, I know some vegans would view that as non-consensual exploitation anyway) but regardless, practice is still a long, long ways away from theory.
I know people like to believe that you can just get cruelty free eggs that solve all of these problems, and you can certainly do a lot better than just buying the cheapest brand -- and I'm not going to shame people, doing better is a good goal to have. A lot of food, even vegan food, has problematic elements that you can dig up, we're all just trying to do a bit better than the default and to be more ethical than we otherwise would be.
But while it would be really convenient if the modern egg industry was ethical, it's just very hard to argue that point.
Aborting chicks is better than killing them post-birth, but even so, egg-laying birds will still eventually be killed off and turned into meat/byproducts -- and the cruelty-free environments don't scale. Chickens just aren't really built to lay that many eggs, and ultimately there doesn't seem to be any way to optimize industry-level farming to care about animal health/happiness. At best we get much more expensive products that appeal to a minority of the market. Especially when you realize that a nontrivial percentage of the eggs you eat are coming from restaurants and as ingredients in pre-made foods, where there's basically no current market pressure to ethically source those materials.
In theory there could be a version of the egg industry that avoided most of these problems (yes, I know some vegans would view that as non-consensual exploitation anyway) but regardless, practice is still a long, long ways away from theory.
I know people like to believe that you can just get cruelty free eggs that solve all of these problems, and you can certainly do a lot better than just buying the cheapest brand -- and I'm not going to shame people, doing better is a good goal to have. A lot of food, even vegan food, has problematic elements that you can dig up, we're all just trying to do a bit better than the default and to be more ethical than we otherwise would be.
But while it would be really convenient if the modern egg industry was ethical, it's just very hard to argue that point.
OTOH if you happen to live in a house with a decent sized garden it's really nice to get chickens. You will treat them with cooking waste (and cereals and ground seashell) and they give you deep orange eggs. Chances are you can save to-be-killed chicken for free, some local farmer gave us a dozen (they're not productive enough for exploitation but still can have a healthy life). IMO the important thing (as always) is DIY: understand how it's done, do it right. The degeneracy of industry for a big part a byproduct of insane scale.
I read about that as well and, while the technology is exciting, it introduces additional cost and complexity into egg production which I doubt will be used at scale, especially as there's no legal issue with culling the male chicks anywhere (though some countries have introduced legislation into how the male chicks can be culled). I can't imagine a day when it will be cheaper to use this tech than to just let the eggs hatch and throw the males in the grinder.
As another user alluded to, the "layers" (egg-laying hens) also have a productivity drop very early in their possible lifespans, and are then killed as well.
There are no industrial egg production facilities which feed and give chickens and roosters a place to live out the natural duration of their lives in humane conditions (not cramped in battery cages where they frequently die of infection from pecking each other to death). I did the calculation a while back and found that doing so would result in eggs that cost over $10 each. The reason eggs are so cheap is because male chicks and hens that have passed their productive years are killed, and while alive, the layers are confined to an neverending nightmare of cramped conditions.
As another user alluded to, the "layers" (egg-laying hens) also have a productivity drop very early in their possible lifespans, and are then killed as well.
There are no industrial egg production facilities which feed and give chickens and roosters a place to live out the natural duration of their lives in humane conditions (not cramped in battery cages where they frequently die of infection from pecking each other to death). I did the calculation a while back and found that doing so would result in eggs that cost over $10 each. The reason eggs are so cheap is because male chicks and hens that have passed their productive years are killed, and while alive, the layers are confined to an neverending nightmare of cramped conditions.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/22/worlds-f...
I don't think they are widely available yet though. I certainly haven't seen them in my country.
I don't think they are widely available yet though. I certainly haven't seen them in my country.
For ethical and moral reasons.
egg allergies are a thing. people also like to be vegan/vegetarian. also chicken farming is notoriously cruel in a lot of ways though it's getting better.
Helps to not cheap out on the eggs you buy. I pay ~$6/dozen (maybe less), but I also get a nice video feed of the chickens on their pasture clucking around and having a grand old time.
I’d definitely pay more for my veg if they came with videos of them relaxing in the fields.
I think eggs are actually quite healthy, so I assume removing them from a recipe is probably to avoid eggs.
[deleted]
Here's one fun use: replacing egg whites in shaken cocktails. Particularly useful for vegan friends (or anyone who feels squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient).
As long as you have good shaking technique, the foam and mouthfeel get pretty close to egg-based methods.
As long as you have good shaking technique, the foam and mouthfeel get pretty close to egg-based methods.
> or anyone who feels squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient
I still use chickpea juice in cocktails to mix it up. But the chance of a salmonella poisoning from eggs in the modern US supply chain is astronomically low. You're at much higher risk from most produce.
If you're really risk-averse, you can always sous vide your eggs at 132 F for 60 minutes. This will pasteurize the surface (where any bacteria live), yet preserve the raw egg texture. (Egg whites and yols typically don't change form until around 140 F)
I still use chickpea juice in cocktails to mix it up. But the chance of a salmonella poisoning from eggs in the modern US supply chain is astronomically low. You're at much higher risk from most produce.
If you're really risk-averse, you can always sous vide your eggs at 132 F for 60 minutes. This will pasteurize the surface (where any bacteria live), yet preserve the raw egg texture. (Egg whites and yols typically don't change form until around 140 F)
In my experience it's not people that are worried about getting sick. It's that they just don't like eggs that much and raw eggs are even worse. So the idea of plopping an egg white into a delicious whiskey sour makes them want to gag.
I have one convert so far, but he didn't see me make the drinks, just the final result.
I'll have to try chickpea juice though since it seems logistically easier than dealing with an egg for a drink.
I have one convert so far, but he didn't see me make the drinks, just the final result.
I'll have to try chickpea juice though since it seems logistically easier than dealing with an egg for a drink.
A lot of bartenders use aquafaba exclusively, because they can have a squeeze bottle of it behind the counter for hours, unlike egg whites.
I've seen the data being 1:10,000 to 1:20,000 eggs in the US or Europe have salmonella present. The whites are theoretically the safest part.
Immunocompromised individuals may still find these risks unacceptable, and then aquafaba or pasteurization is a great option.
Immunocompromised individuals may still find these risks unacceptable, and then aquafaba or pasteurization is a great option.
Being from Europe I actually wondered how much of a difference there can be between US and EU when it comes to that issue, and this[0] StackExchange message was particularly interesting to see EU cases being much more prevalent than US ones.
I grew up with unwashed eggs and never gave it much thought, but now I guess that's one more thing to keep in mind (although I live in North America these days)
Somehow a little (probably incorrect) part of me likes to think that the unwashed eggs are more "authentic" and lead to better food - it's not rational thinking at all, and I'm not waiting for salmonella to hit me before I work at changing my mind about that :)
[0] https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/67006
I grew up with unwashed eggs and never gave it much thought, but now I guess that's one more thing to keep in mind (although I live in North America these days)
Somehow a little (probably incorrect) part of me likes to think that the unwashed eggs are more "authentic" and lead to better food - it's not rational thinking at all, and I'm not waiting for salmonella to hit me before I work at changing my mind about that :)
[0] https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/67006
The big downside with washed eggs is the shelf life from what I understand, I happily keep unwashed eggs at room temp for ~a month, whereas I from what I understand eggs in the USA would need to be refrigerated and still wouldn't keep as long.
I get 3 weeks with my (refrigerated, American) eggs no problem. I think our American fridges probably tend to be larger than European ones, so space in it isn't at a premium.
I keep chickens and therefore get as authentic of an egg as possible.
I can't taste the difference in my eggs vs a store bought, white, washed egg.
I can easily see it, though, with a more orange yolk in the fresh eggs, which most people attribute to eating more bugs.
I can't taste the difference in my eggs vs a store bought, white, washed egg.
I can easily see it, though, with a more orange yolk in the fresh eggs, which most people attribute to eating more bugs.
Serious Eats came to the same conclusion in their taste test: https://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-c...
Thanks for this article.
The one thing I'd love to see however is whether we'd find the same proportions of nutrients in a more scientific breakdown too. Humans aren't necessarily able to know purely from the experience itself if something is healthier than something else for them, we're more wired to detect if something is problematic or not and also prone to a whole lot of suggestion. While the tasting test seems to show that the immediate experience isn't conclusively discernible, it doesn't tell us anything about long-term health effects (understandably so, they're not egg-researchers dedicating decade-long funding to figure that one out!).
The one thing I'd love to see however is whether we'd find the same proportions of nutrients in a more scientific breakdown too. Humans aren't necessarily able to know purely from the experience itself if something is healthier than something else for them, we're more wired to detect if something is problematic or not and also prone to a whole lot of suggestion. While the tasting test seems to show that the immediate experience isn't conclusively discernible, it doesn't tell us anything about long-term health effects (understandably so, they're not egg-researchers dedicating decade-long funding to figure that one out!).
Ive had the same experience, but it does feel better to crack a spotted green egg than a chalk white one.
In the UK eggs are unwashed and unrefrigerated by law, but as that other StackExchange answer says, eggs sold in supermarkets are all from vaccinated chickens, so salmonella from eggs is basically non-existent. The NHS even says it's fine for pregnant women to eat raw eggs.
> or anyone who feels squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient
I'm weird but I feel more squeamish about using the juice from a can of beans than I do using raw egg! Not because I think there's anything dangerous in there, just because it's unpleasant to me on some odd level :)
I'm weird but I feel more squeamish about using the juice from a can of beans than I do using raw egg! Not because I think there's anything dangerous in there, just because it's unpleasant to me on some odd level :)
You could do it from just soaking dried beans as well I believe.
PSA: You don't want to eat uncooked soaked dried bean residue (especially red kidney beans). Uncooked it contains phytohaemagglutinin (plant lectin) which is toxic to humans. After cooking via boiling or pressure cooking it reduces the toxin to safe levels. Do not slow cook.
Canned beans are pressure cooked typically. I'd be more comfortable with the canned liquid.
Neither really seems likely to get me sick though.
Neither really seems likely to get me sick though.
Cans are lined with plastic. So there's the whole BPA thing (or whatever they've replaced BPA with, which I'm sure leaches into to water as well)
I don't recall ever seeing plastic lining in canned food. Kind of would defeat the purpose of the can, no?
Here's a demo with a Coca Cola can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQHFQoFoxvQ
Basically, you don't want any funny reactions with the metal.
Basically, you don't want any funny reactions with the metal.
Acidic foods are not good for metal. Also, there's the possibility of metallic taste being transferred to the food so cans are often lined with plastic.
Literally every can is plastic lined. They used to use wax on them, but plastic was cheaper so...
The lining is transparent (and usually gives the metal a yellowish hue).
That's interesting. What is the reason for it? Isn't a sterilized metal can safe by itself?
> Isn’t a sterilized metal can safe by itself?
No, because of reactions between the contents (particularly acidic contents) and the can.
No, because of reactions between the contents (particularly acidic contents) and the can.
That does make sense. Is this a newer thing, or has it been this way for a long while?
The can of beans on the fire is a camping archetype - one I've witnessed people mimic first hand. Seems unhealthy, knowing this now.
The can of beans on the fire is a camping archetype - one I've witnessed people mimic first hand. Seems unhealthy, knowing this now.
It's actually a far superior mouthfeel! The eggwhite foam can have a texture that's hard to describe...dry? coarse? But the aquafaba is smooth (and no, no chickpea taste even though I was pretty worried about that the first time I tried).
In my experience, egg white foams are thicker and more stable than those made with aquafaba, and the egg white has a softening effect on booze. Whether this is desirable depends on the cocktail, the booze, and your personal preference. For instance, I don't think a whiskey sour tastes quite the same with aquafaba (it's a bit harsher and the flavors don't quite marry as well), but I don't notice a difference in a sour made with a clear spirit like pisco. On the other hand, I actually prefer aquafaba in a Ramos Gin Fizz; I find the egg white foam to be too thick, to the point where it just floats on top of the drink and you can't really sip through it.
Pro tip: Instead of doing a dry shake with the egg white, as is traditionally done, try blending it into the cocktail before adding ice. (I use an immersion blender for quicker setup and easier cleanup.) I've found the texture of the foam to be smoother if you do this.
Pro tip: Instead of doing a dry shake with the egg white, as is traditionally done, try blending it into the cocktail before adding ice. (I use an immersion blender for quicker setup and easier cleanup.) I've found the texture of the foam to be smoother if you do this.
Make sure no one has a peanut allergy! Aquafaba can cause allergic reactions. My brother experienced this first-hand.
Interesting, scary. My partner has peanut anaphylaxis, epipen, never once reacted to aquafaba which I used in hummous to loosen the mixture if there is enough lemon-juice sourness and it's too thick. We eat a LOT of chickpea. She's never had anything approaching throat constriction or mouth swelling.
Are you sure there wasn't a contamination issue?
Are you sure there wasn't a contamination issue?
From the little bit of reading I just did, it sounds like only some people with peanut allergies will also experience reactions to other legumes - my brother being one of the unlucky few. I do not believe it was contamination as it was behind a bar vs a kitchen, but no one knows for sure.
Hey, that's a good idea.
I've been doing a lot of cocktails lately (gee, wonder why). And I do enjoy a flip. I don't make them simply because I don't want to deal with leftover egg yolks. But I tend to throw away aquafaba. Next time I have it, I'll try a flip made with it.
Maybe tonight. Thanks.
I've been doing a lot of cocktails lately (gee, wonder why). And I do enjoy a flip. I don't make them simply because I don't want to deal with leftover egg yolks. But I tend to throw away aquafaba. Next time I have it, I'll try a flip made with it.
Maybe tonight. Thanks.
> And I do enjoy a flip. I don't make them simply because I don't want to deal with leftover egg yolks
Flips are explicitly whole egg cocktails. If you're not using the yolk, you're not making a flip.
If you try to use aquafaba to replace the egg in a flip recipe, you'll end up with a different drink because you won't have the flavour of the yolk.
Flips are explicitly whole egg cocktails. If you're not using the yolk, you're not making a flip.
If you try to use aquafaba to replace the egg in a flip recipe, you'll end up with a different drink because you won't have the flavour of the yolk.
For reference:
Flip – An entire egg
Nog – An entire egg plus dairy
Sour – Egg white only
Fizz – Egg plus carbonation
Optionally, but less common: Silver Fizz (egg white), Golden Fizz (egg yolk), Royal Fizz (whole egg) + carbonation.
Flip – An entire egg
Nog – An entire egg plus dairy
Sour – Egg white only
Fizz – Egg plus carbonation
Optionally, but less common: Silver Fizz (egg white), Golden Fizz (egg yolk), Royal Fizz (whole egg) + carbonation.
Ah, thank you very much. Yes, I meant a fizz rather than a flip. Thanks for clarifying.
Got a preference for which to use? Seems like chickpea aquafaba might taste best.
Chickpea is the most common in the community. I'd caution to be careful with the salinity of the chickpeas, which can vary between vendors.
My husband uses it in a bourbon sour, and it's delicious and easy to make!
People put egg whites in cocktails? That's a new one for me.
Traditional whiskey sours (or any other "sour"), among other classic cocktails, are made using an egg white. When shaken well, it creates a foamy layer on top of the drink that is quite stable and offers a pleasant texture (IMO), somewhat similar to the foam you get on top of a freshly poured beer. On top of that, there is some sort of chemical reaction that happens with the egg and alcohol, especially oak-aged spirits—apparently the egg white "softens" the booze, which is nice for higher-proof whiskeys and such.[0]
You can take this even further, too: I make a variation of the Mai Tai that's topped with a foam made by blending egg white with passion fruit puree. The foam is the first thing you taste, so you immediately get hit with the sharp, sweet-tart flavor of the passion fruit, before the rest of the (more subtle) flavors kick in. It's delicious.
(I've done it with aquafaba and it works almost as well, although I've only used canned, which generally contains salt. I don't mind it, but it doesn't work in every cocktail.)
[0]: If you're interested in this stuff, I highly recommend the book Liquid Intelligence by Dave Arnold.
You can take this even further, too: I make a variation of the Mai Tai that's topped with a foam made by blending egg white with passion fruit puree. The foam is the first thing you taste, so you immediately get hit with the sharp, sweet-tart flavor of the passion fruit, before the rest of the (more subtle) flavors kick in. It's delicious.
(I've done it with aquafaba and it works almost as well, although I've only used canned, which generally contains salt. I don't mind it, but it doesn't work in every cocktail.)
[0]: If you're interested in this stuff, I highly recommend the book Liquid Intelligence by Dave Arnold.
Agreed - it works well in cocktails.
While I fully support and love the fact that this is on the front page (aquafaba rocks :D), can we just take a minute and muse on how nice it is to see a sensible, clean, old-fashioned web site that gets information to you straightforward and unobtrusively?
I miss the old web.
I miss the old web.
This is the cool part of the site
http://aquafaba.com/history.html
> Joël's Discovers the Foam, Dec 2014
> While actively looking for egg substitutes, Joël Roessel, a ténor from France, discovered through a systematic investigation into vegetable foams, that liquid from red kidney beans and hearts of palm can be coerced into a foam in the same way as flax mucilage. He posted his results on his blog at revolutionvegetale.com, providing a key contribution to unlocking the secret of aquafaba.
http://aquafaba.com/history.html
> Joël's Discovers the Foam, Dec 2014
> While actively looking for egg substitutes, Joël Roessel, a ténor from France, discovered through a systematic investigation into vegetable foams, that liquid from red kidney beans and hearts of palm can be coerced into a foam in the same way as flax mucilage. He posted his results on his blog at revolutionvegetale.com, providing a key contribution to unlocking the secret of aquafaba.
Wow, I didn't know it was this recent. My gf introduced me to aquafaba, but I just assumed it was ancient middle-eastern kitchen lore, because... well, chick-peas are used there a lot.
So it seems these are good times for vegans.
So it seems these are good times for vegans.
Agreed, this seems like the most interesting part of the site to me. Fascinating history. I wonder what else remains to be discovered?
>I wonder what else remains to be discovered?
Pretty much everything
Pretty much everything
Not to knock the wonderful developments that have happened in plant-based foods in the last decade, but this really makes me appreciate the egg all the more. Some of the egg alternatives seem to require a degree in chemical engineering to get right.
Between the many magical uses of the yolk and white (both separately and together), you appreciate how versatile a collection of fats and proteins it really is. And how user friendly it is. It even comes in it's own packaging!
Between the many magical uses of the yolk and white (both separately and together), you appreciate how versatile a collection of fats and proteins it really is. And how user friendly it is. It even comes in it's own packaging!
I made a vegan pavlova just the other week. Took chickpea juice straight out of a regular can of chickpeas and whipped it up with sugar. No adjustment necessary.
The amount of salt, sugar and other preservatives in that water is probably not good.
Try to cook your own chickpeas, it's super easy, fast if you know the tricks and a hell of a lot cheaper, and I am no vegan, just love them, you also generate less waste.
Try to cook your own chickpeas, it's super easy, fast if you know the tricks and a hell of a lot cheaper, and I am no vegan, just love them, you also generate less waste.
I have a hunch that we have so many simple egg-based recipes because they've gone through so much testing - perhaps in a hundred years we'll say the same thing of aquafaba.
Doesn't that say something about how eggs are easy to test compared to other things?
I think it says more about how much longer we've been using eggs, as well as how much more demand there is for alternatives today.
I was going to say that it's probably because people who had access to wheat would more likely have access to eggs, but it seems Chickpeas and Wheat were both first found around Turkey.
I just assume it is because we've had eggs longer than canned goods.
Also, even though aquafaba from freshly cooked chickpeas also works well, I'm guessing that, until recently, chickpeas weren't super common in the part of the world where the European pastry tradition developed.
I'm glad with all those development into egg-free alternatives. My wife is severely allergic to eggs, and this really opened the door to produce she couldn't never have eaten otherwise.
Unless she's allergic to the sulphur compounds, you may really enjoy Kala Namak. It's a traditional asian salt which contains sulfuric ingredients and it makes everything taste like eggs. (It's not heat stable tho.) With avocado you get something that tastes and feels like egg. A sulphur note is also very typical for non-vegan food, as animal protein decay releases these molecules at any stage. I do a modified version of the kinky vegan "Mett" (german, raw minced meat) based on rice cakes and tomato extract (don't judge it before you tried it) and the sulfuric hint really adds to it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_namak
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_namak
Agree, it will be so cool when we can have everything eggs offer and none of the cruelty.
There are plenty of cruelty free sources for eggs. Go with a reputable free range grower or if you live in the countryside or even suburbs, there are usually neighbors that sell their excess eggs.
I would strongly disagree that any commercial operation - regardless of its labeling - could be called cruelty free. That leaves neighbors with backyard hens, which will never be enough cover any significant portion of egg consumption.
I mean, if you want cruelty free eggs you can just raise chickens.
That’s something you can start working on now to meet 100% of your egg needs.
That’s something you can start working on now to meet 100% of your egg needs.
> I mean, if you want cruelty free eggs you can just raise chickens.
Raising hens still means that someone somewhere is hatching eggs and throwing out the rooster chicks, probably grinding them into chicken meal.
Raising hens still means that someone somewhere is hatching eggs and throwing out the rooster chicks, probably grinding them into chicken meal.
The usual definition of "cruelty free" does not necessarily mean nothing is killed. Many consider humane methods of killing (culling) to be cruelty free.
I don't. And "just raise your own" is obviously not a viable option for the overwhelming majority of people.
Not sure if the other tenants in my downtown condo high rise will appreciate that. I'll probably get a visit from the Supe
But we aren't talking about covering a significant portion of egg consumption. Only the portion of egg consumption from people who don't want cruelty free eggs.
There aren't enough pasture chickens (not "free range" which is a lie) for everyone to be fed from them.
Pasture-raised isn't as cruelty-free as one might like. Big free range chicken farms have eagle problems: https://www.audubon.org/magazine/fall-2016/an-organic-chicke...
If you're a chicken, do you want to live forever in a cage, or be eaten alive by a bigger bird? Neither of those choices sound great to me.
If you're a chicken, do you want to live forever in a cage, or be eaten alive by a bigger bird? Neither of those choices sound great to me.
Being eventually eaten by a predator is fairly probable part of any birds life.
So you prefer to deny this chicken the chance to live any life because you can't make it perfect?
You want to distance yourself so far from cruelty that you don't want to let anything live until you are able to provide better conditions than any mythical god could? ;-)
So you prefer to deny this chicken the chance to live any life because you can't make it perfect?
You want to distance yourself so far from cruelty that you don't want to let anything live until you are able to provide better conditions than any mythical god could? ;-)
Around me, I see plenty of free-roaming chickens. The big problem is raccoons, you just need to make sure the chickens are put up at night and they usually make it.
This level of purity regarding cruelty avoidance seems to have logical gaps, e.g. what about the suffering of eagles? (Or other predators)
As someone who raises chickens, with no cruelty, I'm surprised to hear it's not already an option.
Maybe you should look for another source.
Maybe you should look for another source.
Unfortunately, not everybody can afford to raise their own chickens.
E.g. IIRC, raising of any chicken/duck/goose/pigeon on land that is not zoned for agriculture has been outlawed in Hong Kong, due to concerns about spreading diseases, especially avian flu.
Plus, most people live in tiny homes with no garden and maybe even no balcony.
E.g. IIRC, raising of any chicken/duck/goose/pigeon on land that is not zoned for agriculture has been outlawed in Hong Kong, due to concerns about spreading diseases, especially avian flu.
Plus, most people live in tiny homes with no garden and maybe even no balcony.
Most definitely. I suppose, being able to achieve the results that eggs afford us, but by starting out with arguably simpler ingredients, we'll become better cooks.
As our understanding of fats, sugars and proteins improves, we'll be able to control them even better. Cooking is chemistry, after all :).
As our understanding of fats, sugars and proteins improves, we'll be able to control them even better. Cooking is chemistry, after all :).
I can attest to that. I became mostly vegan, because I had a new friend who was vegan and I started to cook with them in mind. It's fun and challenging, invites for experimentation. Climate and health considerations did the rest. Cooking with meat and cheese is like cheating. You have to be an idiot for it to become a boring dish.
You just use 3 tablespoons of the water from canned chickpeas. I’ve been doing it for years now. It’s not that difficult.
Signed,
Egg Anaphylaxis
Signed,
Egg Anaphylaxis
It's also nice that oranges and bananas come in thick and handy packaging.
The trick to the banana is that it's easier to open it from the bottom.
It's harder to get unwrapping an orange right.
The trick to the banana is that it's easier to open it from the bottom.
It's harder to get unwrapping an orange right.
I got a addicted to eating oranges with the peel. Obviously you need to get those not treated, "bio", or peel labeled for consumption. Some don't like the texture, but the automatic intensity and bitter-sweet contrast is so fucking awesome.
Try eating a whole chilled orange in the warm shower like an animal. Just make sure your bite gets pulp and peel both.
Try eating a whole chilled orange in the warm shower like an animal. Just make sure your bite gets pulp and peel both.
How fascinating. I would really have to let go of a lot of preconceptions to try that.
Honestly I haven't done that since I was a kid - I would "invent" food. My peanut butter and jelly variants included PB& banana, PB&raisins, PB&pickles - nope :( PB&grapes - would roll on the floor, etc...
Honestly I haven't done that since I was a kid - I would "invent" food. My peanut butter and jelly variants included PB& banana, PB&raisins, PB&pickles - nope :( PB&grapes - would roll on the floor, etc...
If you haven't had watermelon rind juice, you totally should.
It's impossible to get unwrapping an orange right. I've tried for a lifetime.
Skin it then pull the pieces apart. Easier to figure out with a tangerine.
This is one of the most "draw a circle, then draw the rest of the owl" comments I've read. :) Skinning it is the tough part.
Sorry. Not trying to be unhelpful. I guess for that the tricks actually breaking the skin for the first time. Then kind of exploiting the tear from there. Sometimes I can use the pith (white flesh) to help separate the skin. Maybe it’s an angle thing? Having some nails or the edge of a butter knife seems to help too.
You can also just rip them in half. Then run your finger down the exposed sides between flesh/skin. Or bend the skin back from the meat.
Yeah it’s tough.
You can also just rip them in half. Then run your finger down the exposed sides between flesh/skin. Or bend the skin back from the meat.
Yeah it’s tough.
what's annoying is that some oranges... boom - they come apart perfectly into nice clean orange wedges. Then the next orange from the same bag will either have a bunch of peel left, or shred into pieces of mush.
The egg also seems like a good target for biomanufacturing. It's a liquid (essentially), and mostly composed of just five proteins and lecithin.
I was head-writing a comment about how disappointed I was that this was a quirky software name instead of chickpea water, which is almost magical in properties.
Imagine my delight! Teach me to assume...
Imagine my delight! Teach me to assume...
Well, now that you've talked it up like that, I'm head-writing some ideas for a library that could fit this magical food product's name.
Let's race!
Aquafaba based mayo is great as well: just blend together aquafaba, oil, garlic and salt. It comes out with a similar texture and taste to egg mayo. I've had variations that add black salt to give it an eggy smell if you actually miss that part!
Another plant based trick is to combine vinegar with soy milk - it sours the milk a little and makes it curdle, emulating the taste and texture of buttermilk. Here's a pancake recipe from someone I know that has this trick to give a fluffy texture, where no eggs are needed:
https://angeliqueboudeau.org/fluffy-vegan-pancakes/
Another plant based trick is to combine vinegar with soy milk - it sours the milk a little and makes it curdle, emulating the taste and texture of buttermilk. Here's a pancake recipe from someone I know that has this trick to give a fluffy texture, where no eggs are needed:
https://angeliqueboudeau.org/fluffy-vegan-pancakes/
A few drops of vinegar goes great too
I always assumed that the water packaged with can beans would have tons of lectin seeped from the beans and therefore should be discarded. Is it safe to use?
I think so. Wikipedia:
As a normal human digestive tract does not contain any anti-oligosaccharide enzymes, consumed oligosaccharides are typically digested by bacteria in the large intestine. This digestion process produces gases such as methane as a byproduct, which are then released as flatulence.
Processing the beans, such as by boiling, soaking, cooking, can leach the indigestible sugars from the beans and significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate the problem.
I used to live with a Mexican family and one of the first non-milk foods they fed the babies was the water drained from cooked beans. I'm not sure if it could be used to cook or make cocktails but it was somewhat thick.
We have been using aquafaba exclusively due to egg issues for myself and our kids. We have found that mileage varies. Try for organic salt free chickpeas... the taste is not as strong and works amazing for pavlova (Australian desert) and merengue. We have also made chocolate mouse with salt free and I would suggest it’s better than egg based mouse. Salted aquafaba we use in cakes. The most interesting thing about aquafaba is how it responds to heat, we think it’s a lot more forgiving than egg. Both have a protein that responds to friction, but heat works differently so you have to realise that cakes and biscuits have a different texture to “normal”, but we have found over time it’s our new normal and we love it. Lastly, my scientist wife just said that egg has many properties that are useful in cooking and aquafaba is certainly exceptional for a few of them, but not all.
> pavlova (Australian desert)
Excuse me?
Excuse me?
Unsure if confused by desert/dessert or a kiwi disputing the origin, but it’s effectively a meringue nest that is crunchy outside and marshmallowy inside topped with cream and fruit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlova_(cake)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlova_(cake)
It is named after a Russian Ballerina, but is believed to to have originated in Australia or NZ.
I recently looked into this, and found this article claiming neither NZ nor Oz were the originator: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/423073/the-surprisi...
Australian here. They (NZ) invented it.
We (queenslanders, specifically) invented the Lamington, their claims not withstanding.
We (queenslanders, specifically) invented the Lamington, their claims not withstanding.
It's as Australian as Russell Crowe!
What is salt free chickpeas? they are all salt free aren’t them?
Canned chickpeas are typically salted.
Aquafaba can be made into icecream, too. To prevent crystallisation, just add some vodka (or other alcohol).
The holy grail for me is aquafaba-based macarons that work reliably. I've managed to pull them off once, but aquafaba meringue is much less tolerant of higher cooking temperatures than egg white and is prone to exploding into a foamy mess.
My daughter now 10 was diagnosed with a severe egg allergy around the time she turned 1. We aren't vegans and I love all kinds of things with egg (including home made pasta).
We tried so many egg replacers and were just not that impressed. I was resigned to giving up a whole bunch of foods I love. Aquafaba finally let us have so many normal meals back. You don't realize how many foods have egg in them (especially in restaurants: Orange Julius I'm looking at you! Who puts egg in fruit smoothies?!).
We use it to make pancakes, waffles, cakes, and even brownies (we found most egg replacers to be an utter disaster with many brownie recipes).
We tried so many egg replacers and were just not that impressed. I was resigned to giving up a whole bunch of foods I love. Aquafaba finally let us have so many normal meals back. You don't realize how many foods have egg in them (especially in restaurants: Orange Julius I'm looking at you! Who puts egg in fruit smoothies?!).
We use it to make pancakes, waffles, cakes, and even brownies (we found most egg replacers to be an utter disaster with many brownie recipes).
I'm vegan and I tried making whipped cream from chickpea water. It was one of the foulest things I've ever tried. It tasted _very_ beany.
I haven't tried using it for other things, and I imagine it could work fine in baked goods or in things with other strong flavors on top of it.
But for whipped cream, the vegan winner is still old school Rich Whip ready to whip (http://richwhip.com/rich-whip.php), which dates back to 1945. Note that only the ready to whip carton is vegan. The pre-whipped ones contain milk products.
I haven't tried using it for other things, and I imagine it could work fine in baked goods or in things with other strong flavors on top of it.
But for whipped cream, the vegan winner is still old school Rich Whip ready to whip (http://richwhip.com/rich-whip.php), which dates back to 1945. Note that only the ready to whip carton is vegan. The pre-whipped ones contain milk products.
I'm not saying that it's as good as egg white meringue, but have you tried using non-canned aquafaba? The non canned option has more neutral taste in my opinion.
When I cook chickpeas (for Hummus) I sometime boil it twice - the first time to source aquafaba and the second time with vegetables added for the Hummus itself.
When I cook chickpeas (for Hummus) I sometime boil it twice - the first time to source aquafaba and the second time with vegetables added for the Hummus itself.
No, maybe I'll give it another try based on your suggestion.
My wife has made meringues with this. They whip up beautifully and come out deliciously light and crispy.
In my experience, whatever substance that's in beans gives you gas concentrates in the bean juice.
+1 I once had vegan brownies made with aquafaba (from storebought canned chickpeas) and I never want to eat those again, because of the explosive gas they gave me.
I had a great aquafaba chocolate mousse in a restaurant in Haarlem (Netherlands). I think it was vanVeg on Zijlstraat. Unfortunately it's not listed on their menu and I'm not exactly going to try to pop over to the Netherlands during this pandemic to confirm my recollection.
Also, there's probably some other place in the world with a great aquafaba chocolate mousse.
Also, there's probably some other place in the world with a great aquafaba chocolate mousse.
This stuff makes a pretty good mayonnaise/aioli when you blend it with some lemon juice, olive oil, salt, and garlic or spice of your choice. Thinner than mayo and definitely has a slight chickpea taste to it, but it's quite good with fries or on a sandwich.
Vegan partner loves it for meringues.
It's widely recommended in vegan circles to discard bean soaking water. Here's an example:
> So after the beans have soaked for a while, the soaking water now contains these elements that you are trying to eliminate by soaking the beans in the first place. And this is why the bean water is discarded. So it is best to drain the water and rinse the beans thoroughly before cooking. -- https://www.vegancoach.com/why-discard-bean-soaking-water.ht...
Anyone know whether that's right or wrong? Does it depend on the bean? Maybe the soaking water is a problem but not the cooking water?
> So after the beans have soaked for a while, the soaking water now contains these elements that you are trying to eliminate by soaking the beans in the first place. And this is why the bean water is discarded. So it is best to drain the water and rinse the beans thoroughly before cooking. -- https://www.vegancoach.com/why-discard-bean-soaking-water.ht...
Anyone know whether that's right or wrong? Does it depend on the bean? Maybe the soaking water is a problem but not the cooking water?
This is a misconception about what aquafaba is. Aquafaba is not the soaking water, it's the cooking water.
My usual process for cooking chickpeas is:
- Soak overnight in a bowl. Throw this water out.
- Boil for several hours in new water. Save this water, and boil it down further to make aquafaba.
Not all chickpea recipes allow for this; for example, falafel is usually made with chickpeas that have been soaked but not boiled.
My usual process for cooking chickpeas is:
- Soak overnight in a bowl. Throw this water out.
- Boil for several hours in new water. Save this water, and boil it down further to make aquafaba.
Not all chickpea recipes allow for this; for example, falafel is usually made with chickpeas that have been soaked but not boiled.
How much more do you boil it down?
It's a matter of taste and how much thickness you want. It's a tradeoff between thickness and amount of burnt-chickpea taste that you can tolerate. And it's fine if you don't cook it down at all.
For 2 cups dry chickpeas + 8 cups water I sometimes cook it down for an extra hour on low heat.
For 2 cups dry chickpeas + 8 cups water I sometimes cook it down for an extra hour on low heat.
I'm not sure if this is what it's referring to, but I've never used raw beans for aquafaba. It's precooked beans that are soaking in water that make the aquafaba. By that point hopefully you've already cooked the nasties out of the bean
AFAIK the main reason for soaking beans is to save cooking time and allow for even cooking. It may absorb some of the indigestible sugars, but I'm not positive. They won't hurt you, regardless, though they might cause embarrassment.
Typically the liquid used is from canned chickpeas, which have been cooked, which ought to diminish those sugars.
If you're cooking beans at home, you might want to add carrot and onion peels for flavoring the beans. The resulting broth will be very flavorful and worth saving, but less useful for baking, since it's not neutrally flavored.
Typically the liquid used is from canned chickpeas, which have been cooked, which ought to diminish those sugars.
If you're cooking beans at home, you might want to add carrot and onion peels for flavoring the beans. The resulting broth will be very flavorful and worth saving, but less useful for baking, since it's not neutrally flavored.
This is an interesting point. I've taken to cooking beans from dry in a pressure cooker and usually in a "meal" that gets cooked with it at the same time. So I can't discard the water. The toxins in uncooked beans are real, but does the heat of cooking destroy them? It looks like the answer is yes [1], which says that "No significant lectin changes were observed after soaking the beans" but that the lectin levels are undetectable in cooked beans. (I.e. cooking, not soaking is the important part.) That does leave your question in somewhat of a limbo: maybe the water hasn't absorbed any of the lectin and so is safe?
Interestingly, [1] says:
> It appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all of the hemagglutinating activity of lectins.
But then the authors seem somewhat puzzled as to why anyone is reported symptoms of lectin poisoning - who's eating beans that are inedible in texture and hardness? They hypothesize raw food junkie's in salads.
EDIT: I'm more skeptical now that any conclusions can be drawn from this paper. They mention leaching as an important factor at one point, so maybe heat just makes leaching happen at an appreciable rate. And your uncooked water might still have lectin at levels they couldn't observe (since we're looking at it indirectly by only measuring the bean's content) and still be toxic. You only need 5 raw kidney beans to have symptoms.
[1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2621....
Interestingly, [1] says:
> It appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all of the hemagglutinating activity of lectins.
But then the authors seem somewhat puzzled as to why anyone is reported symptoms of lectin poisoning - who's eating beans that are inedible in texture and hardness? They hypothesize raw food junkie's in salads.
EDIT: I'm more skeptical now that any conclusions can be drawn from this paper. They mention leaching as an important factor at one point, so maybe heat just makes leaching happen at an appreciable rate. And your uncooked water might still have lectin at levels they couldn't observe (since we're looking at it indirectly by only measuring the bean's content) and still be toxic. You only need 5 raw kidney beans to have symptoms.
[1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2621....
What a very interesting topic.
I found a more recent paper [1] that concludes it is beneficial to soak the beans and then discard the soaking water prior to cooking.
I prepare dry beans regularly and almost never discard the soaking water. Time to reconsider!
[1] https://nuppre.paginas.ufsc.br/files/2014/04/2010-Fernandes-...
I found a more recent paper [1] that concludes it is beneficial to soak the beans and then discard the soaking water prior to cooking.
I prepare dry beans regularly and almost never discard the soaking water. Time to reconsider!
[1] https://nuppre.paginas.ufsc.br/files/2014/04/2010-Fernandes-...
I was curious about this also. There could be FODMAPs in the soaking water of many legumes. For recipes with a small amount, it's probably small enough to be fine for all but the most sensitive individuals. Meringues, though, I don't know.
https://www.soscuisine.com/blog/top-5-confusing-fodmap-foods...
https://www.soscuisine.com/blog/top-5-confusing-fodmap-foods...
[deleted]
Mostly the "aquafaba" that I see referred to (admittedly in passing most of the time) is the liquid from canned chickpeas.
If you have a peanut allergy, please read: I learned about aquafaba from my younger brother who suffers from a severe peanut allergy. He ordered a cocktail at a bar that substituted egg whites for aquafaba so the drink would be vegan friendly. This was not disclosed on the cocktail menu and he had an allergic reaction. The staff felt horrible after connecting the dots, and his drink and meal were taken care of, but I wanted to share as a warning for anyone with a peanut allergy. be ware of aquafaba in cocktails
Strange... is it common for peanut allergies to be triggered by other legumes, like chickpeas? I'm allergic to peanuts but have never had problems with other legumes, or aquafaba.
Interesting. My younger brother stays away from all legumes. Chickpeas have caused reactions for him in the past, although much less severe than a peanut.
Maybe it depends on the severity. My peanut allergy is very unpleasant, but not anaphylactic as far as I know; I can deal with it with just Benadryl.
This is as good a place as any to ask the following naive question: what is the name for the cooking liquid of pasta? Just recently, I cooked some spaghetti in a very small pot and fished it out using a fork. I forgot the pot in the sink. After 8 hours, the liquid had formed a pancake-like mass at the bottom of the pot. Is it the same as aquafaba, just from a different plant (wheat?). Is there any use to it?
It's starch water, and it's great for thickening pasta sauces
Starch water. You get the same when you cook potatoes.
> . Is there any use to it?
Definitely, the wheat starch mixture you get when cooking pasta is a great emulsifier for fat-based pasta sauces.
Definitely, the wheat starch mixture you get when cooking pasta is a great emulsifier for fat-based pasta sauces.
You know how pastas (especially spaghetti) will stick to itself when you leave it out and become a big lump? Use that water to break it up instead of oil. It'll make your pasta easy to separate and won't stop sauces from sticking to the pasta.
"The Science of Our Favorite Pulse, the Humble Chickpea | What's Eating Dan?"[0] is a good introduction to everything you can do with the chickpea, including aquafaba. His other videos are great too, he frequently takes this approach of going deep on a particular ingredient.
[0] https://youtu.be/qKGqT-3Uypk
[0] https://youtu.be/qKGqT-3Uypk
Maybe it's just because I'm tired (or dumb) but after reading the front page, the FAQ, and clicking through some other nav I'm still not quite sure what aquafaba is.
Are they literally just talking about the stuff you get when you drain a can of chick peas? Or is there more to it than that?
Are they literally just talking about the stuff you get when you drain a can of chick peas? Or is there more to it than that?
> Are they literally just talking about the stuff you get when you drain a can of chick peas?
Yes that's exactly it.
Yes that's exactly it.
"Aquafaba can be used to replace egg whites"
"butter, cheeses"
What eggwhites does it replace in butter?
"butter, cheeses"
What eggwhites does it replace in butter?
None obviously, but I think the key here is that butter contains protiens and milk fats that are tough to replicate using non dairy ingredients, unless you are of course making margarine.
I'd imagine aquafaba's unique properties allow you to build "butter" around its structure to simulate the dairy ingredient we are familiar with.
It's not just a 1-1 egg substitute.
I'd imagine aquafaba's unique properties allow you to build "butter" around its structure to simulate the dairy ingredient we are familiar with.
It's not just a 1-1 egg substitute.
I see.
Thanks for the info :)
Thanks for the info :)
I'm always amazed how cuisines vary vastly. In Chinese cuisine (which I'm familiar with), The use of egg "by"products (as in, not just cook egg straightly) in cooking is significantly less compared to Western cuisines. Milk byproduct, even lesser.
IIRC Guy Fieri did a Diners, Drive Ins, and Dives episode with a guy who was using aquafaba in making vegan deli "meats" with textures pretty darn close to the real thing. There's some really awesome wizardry going on in vegan foods.
Anyone had good luck with beans other than chickpeas? My wife is allergic to some legumes, including (alas!) chickpeas.
My apologies if I missed something obvious on the site. I just see that kidney bean liquid isn't good enough.
My apologies if I missed something obvious on the site. I just see that kidney bean liquid isn't good enough.
That's really weird - I've just put on a pot of dried chick peas to boil, so I'm literally making aquafaba right now. Things that make you go "hmmm"...
Does anyone know if that liquid is jam packed full of Bisphenol A, since it's stewing in direct contact with the edges of the can? I'm always suspicious of that.
all of my Kroger brand cans state that they have BPA-free liners, so it ought to be possible to avoid this if you want to.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/09/bpa-substitutes-may-...
Might not necessarily be better, just different to satisfy the claim "BPA free".
Might not necessarily be better, just different to satisfy the claim "BPA free".
I tried to make meringue from aquafaba while it worked it tasted awful because of the salty beany taste. Since then I gave up hopes of saving aquafaba for something.
whiskey sours if you drink
It's sort of interesting but I don't really understand the issue they seem to have with using protein isolate rather than the dregs of boiled peas. Maybe it's because isolate rings like a chemical name? It's especially funny when considering that folks appear to be fussy about finding a natural-enough vegan protein source to make meringues, the other half of which is white sugar anyway, aka refined sucrose if you wanted to give it a chemical name, and IMO a quite "unnatural" product to begin with
I just discovered making Aquafaba too, and have been using it as a tea/coffee creamer alternative as adding vanilla and stevia sweetener.
Wait, I’ve been ignoring this article all day and now I’m winding down and find out that people throw out their bean juice???
I thought this stuff was discarded because it causes gas. If so, it seems inappropriate to replace other ingredients with it?
It's in the FAQ.
What about lectins, phytates/phytic acid, phytohemagglutinin, gas, etc?
Aquafaba by definition is made from beans that have been heat treated > 100C, and chickpeas have the least amount of lectins and phytates. If you're worried, use canned or home cooked chickpeas and avoid the other beans. There are over 20,000 members in the development group, and it's rare for people to report issues with gas, though some have.
What about lectins, phytates/phytic acid, phytohemagglutinin, gas, etc?
Aquafaba by definition is made from beans that have been heat treated > 100C, and chickpeas have the least amount of lectins and phytates. If you're worried, use canned or home cooked chickpeas and avoid the other beans. There are over 20,000 members in the development group, and it's rare for people to report issues with gas, though some have.
Everytime I open a can, the first thing I do is sip the delicious Aquafaba. I should run it through the carbonator!
I used to throw it away because I thought that it was some kind of preserving liquid added by the manufacturer.
No https? (checks calendar: yep, 2021. Checks 5 certs of owned domains from Let's Encrypt: yep.)
I'm all for non-tech people having sites like this, but in 2021 it's hard to excuse not supporting TLS connections to your web server.
I'm all for non-tech people having sites like this, but in 2021 it's hard to excuse not supporting TLS connections to your web server.
Sorry, not a drop of aquafaba is left for experimentation purposes when my Mom cooks her home-famous "menestra" (red beans stew). She serves it with white rice and you eat til you lick the bowl...and then lick pot.
So if I go whip some bean juice it will stiffen?
anyone know about lectin content in aquafaba?
I want to get this into my hummus.
im glad aquafaba is getting attention outside of vegan cooking
Curse my bean allergy!
Serious question.. Why is this on the front page?
It ticks these boxes for me: food and nutrition hacking, science, intellectual curiosity, community-funded research project, etc.
Not the poster, but I did post the same topic (but "only" at Wikipedia) four months ago [1]. That submission totally tanked, though.
I felt it was interesting enough to post then not only because it's rather unexpected, and useful if you want to avoid eggs in your food, but also because it's new.
I had just realized that day that the entire concept of using aquafaba as egg white replacement has not been around for very long. I mean the Wiki page says that the first recipe for meringues using aquafaba was published in 2015.
I think it's really cool that such things are being discovered still. I mean the recipe for egg-based meringues is probably a few hundred years old [2] although sources are obscure. To have a vegan replacement using basically two ingredients appear six years ago is just cool! :)
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24210986
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meringue
I felt it was interesting enough to post then not only because it's rather unexpected, and useful if you want to avoid eggs in your food, but also because it's new.
I had just realized that day that the entire concept of using aquafaba as egg white replacement has not been around for very long. I mean the Wiki page says that the first recipe for meringues using aquafaba was published in 2015.
I think it's really cool that such things are being discovered still. I mean the recipe for egg-based meringues is probably a few hundred years old [2] although sources are obscure. To have a vegan replacement using basically two ingredients appear six years ago is just cool! :)
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24210986
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meringue
And the thought process of discovering something new is the very moment that set me down the vegetarian and plant based path. I had a chile cheeseburger for the first time in over a year and realized it was actually bland compared to what I could do with plants.
Well for one it feels and browses a lot like old-internet and the premise is old-internet, too. Ie deep info on some random thing someone's blown up.
Because it's disrupting egg whites?
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Update: After paying more attention to what it's all about I now find it very interesting.
Update: After paying more attention to what it's all about I now find it very interesting.
I definitely never knew about this, and I too find it pretty fascinating. I don't think it's too uncommon to see Wiki links to random fun TIL stuff on HN.
Because HN users are upvoting it.
or the mods
That's not wrong. We invited david-given to repost https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14165741. But it's only at #1 because the community upvoted it.
You can see a list of invited reposts at https://news.ycombinator.com/invited.
If anyone sees a great, forgotten submission in the HN archives, please let us know at [email protected] so we can consider inviting a repost. There are tons of these, like amber in rock.
You can see a list of invited reposts at https://news.ycombinator.com/invited.
If anyone sees a great, forgotten submission in the HN archives, please let us know at [email protected] so we can consider inviting a repost. There are tons of these, like amber in rock.
How does "invited reposts" work? Do the mods send email/PM to ask them to re-submit the link(s), or the mods are doing that themselves?
The former. But we only do that when the post is older than a few days. Otherwise we re-up the original submission as described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11662380.
Or a huge bot farm operating at the behest of Big Chickpea.
[deleted]
There are few truer hacks than recipe substitutions. You have to know the mechanics of what you are doing and how things react with each other to do it right.
Cooking in general is a tinkerers dream in that regard.
Cooking in general is a tinkerers dream in that regard.
[deleted]
Subtext here being wondering why all the upvoters aren’t commenting (yet).
We are doing a bit of "research" first.
Not a fan. I already distrust legumes, now I'm supposed to repurpose the water they cook in? No thank you. Sounds like it would be full of lectins.
Hazelnut Choc Chip cookies, designed for Aquafaba.
NB. You can switch out more of the hazelnut/almond meal to adjust the taste, but don't go much below 1/2 cup of almond!
https://imgur.com/a/G2M1QoE