Deadly fungi are an emerging microbe threat(scientificamerican.com)
scientificamerican.com
Deadly fungi are an emerging microbe threat
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deadly-fungi-are-the-newest-emerging-microbe-threat-all-over-the-world/
83 comments
Are they becoming deadlier? Or, did they just rise higher in the list by virtue of the fact that other threats were mitigated.
> That mutual coexistence is now tipping out of balance. Fungi are surging beyond the climate zones they long lived in, adapting to environments that would once have been inimical, learning new behaviors that let them leap between species in novel ways. While executing those maneuvers, they are becoming more successful pathogens, threatening human health in ways—and numbers—they could not achieve before.
Still early stages, but signs point to fungi becoming deadlier.
Still early stages, but signs point to fungi becoming deadlier.
It's a bit of creative writing, mostly. Fungi evolve, that's what they do. And they evolve very rapidly. They also have great staying power, with spores that have covered every square millimeter of the earth pretty much for the entire history of life on earth. You're breathing some in right now.
Animals evolved warm-bloodedness partly to improve resistance to environmental fungi. Meanwhile, insects (bees, ants, others) actually farm fungi as part of their food and for defense. This all points to a really profound and fundamental fact: We have been co-existing with fungi every second of every person's entire lives.
If fungi are killing more people, it's because people have changed, not the fungi.
Animals evolved warm-bloodedness partly to improve resistance to environmental fungi. Meanwhile, insects (bees, ants, others) actually farm fungi as part of their food and for defense. This all points to a really profound and fundamental fact: We have been co-existing with fungi every second of every person's entire lives.
If fungi are killing more people, it's because people have changed, not the fungi.
Was with you up to:
> If fungi are killing more people, it's because people have changed, not the fungi.
That's an overreach. It could be either or both. Obviously fungi are evolving rapidly as you yourself point out.
> If fungi are killing more people, it's because people have changed, not the fungi.
That's an overreach. It could be either or both. Obviously fungi are evolving rapidly as you yourself point out.
Right; but they've been evolving rapidly the entire time. So they're still doing what they've always done. If the environment is changing, and people are changing, and that's causing us to be vulnerable to conditions we weren't previously vulnerable to, then that's a problem caused by people changing. These stories look for a villain, and seem to end up villainizing the fungus, which is good for sensationalism but not very useful for understanding what is actually happening.
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>Animals evolved warm-bloodedness partly to improve resistance to environmental fungi
I was listening to a podcast recently that discussed how human average body temperature has been declining in recent years while heat tolerance of fungi has been rising (thanks to the climate). The result is that our bodies are less capable of preventing fungal infections through heat and fungi can be pretty deadly if unchecked.
I was listening to a podcast recently that discussed how human average body temperature has been declining in recent years while heat tolerance of fungi has been rising (thanks to the climate). The result is that our bodies are less capable of preventing fungal infections through heat and fungi can be pretty deadly if unchecked.
That's pretty interesting. Are there any guesses as to why body temperature is declining?
Here is my hypothesis. Our body temperature is expensive and evolutionary not 'stable'. In the past, it would make sense that in environments with lower bacterial threats, the group would select for lower body temperature in order to preserve energy.
In order to do that, individuals with too low a body temperature would be removed from the group due to infections. This would create a balanced system between body temperature (energy expenditure) and bacterial immunity.
With the development of antibiotics, this changed. The previous bottom of the group is not culled anymore, removing the barrier of the imbalance. Therefore, the group is 'safely' selecting for lower body temperatures.
In order to do that, individuals with too low a body temperature would be removed from the group due to infections. This would create a balanced system between body temperature (energy expenditure) and bacterial immunity.
With the development of antibiotics, this changed. The previous bottom of the group is not culled anymore, removing the barrier of the imbalance. Therefore, the group is 'safely' selecting for lower body temperatures.
And so a new pathogen is emerging to fulfill the void once dominated by bacterial infections. Makes sense..
My money is on the same endocrine disupters that are lowering testosterone levels, lowering sperm counts, and likely increasing obesity issues.
> My money is on the same endocrine disupters that are lowering testosterone levels, lowering sperm counts
The studies that found this also found that 1. sperm counts stopped and went back up again 2. men with lower testosterone have more children.
The studies that found this also found that 1. sperm counts stopped and went back up again 2. men with lower testosterone have more children.
It was a Radio Lab (Fungus Amungus):
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
The theory is that in wealthy countries with good public health, there's less need to maintain a high body temperature to fend off threats. The show said that human body temperature "has been steadily declining for decades at a rate of, like, .05 degrees Fahrenheit per decade." (though not in less developed countries)...average is said to be more like 97.5 degrees.
The theory is that in wealthy countries with good public health, there's less need to maintain a high body temperature to fend off threats. The show said that human body temperature "has been steadily declining for decades at a rate of, like, .05 degrees Fahrenheit per decade." (though not in less developed countries)...average is said to be more like 97.5 degrees.
Interestingly in Ayurveda this is called kapha dominant body and it occurs when eats a food heavy in kapha heavy foods like sweets, dairy, cheese
So it's possible this reduction reflects a change in our diets
So it's possible this reduction reflects a change in our diets
Why are sweets and cheese in the same category? Cheese is closer to meat nutritionally.
We are all being slowly hibernated?
You probably want to link the podcast: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
> human average body temperature has been declining in recent years
What? More details and citations are needed.
What? More details and citations are needed.
Why not Google it yourself? The first few results:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201028171432.h....
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-body-te...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-human-body-te...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201028171432.h....
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-body-te...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-human-body-te...
Because I'm not the one who claimed body temperatures were decreasing.
If I claimed that it was raining in San Francisco right now, do I need to provide a weather report, or would you be able to find it yourself?
I wouldn't even have replied to your post had you claimed that.
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15th paragraph:
> Not all of our vulnerability is the fault of medicine preserving life so successfully. Other human actions have opened more doors between the fungal world and our own. We clear land for crops and settlement and perturb what were stable balances between fungi and their hosts. We carry goods and animals across the world, and fungi hitchhike on them. We drench crops in fungicides and enhance the resistance of organisms residing nearby. We take actions that warm the climate, and fungi adapt, narrowing the gap between their preferred temperature and ours that protected us for so long.
> Not all of our vulnerability is the fault of medicine preserving life so successfully. Other human actions have opened more doors between the fungal world and our own. We clear land for crops and settlement and perturb what were stable balances between fungi and their hosts. We carry goods and animals across the world, and fungi hitchhike on them. We drench crops in fungicides and enhance the resistance of organisms residing nearby. We take actions that warm the climate, and fungi adapt, narrowing the gap between their preferred temperature and ours that protected us for so long.
Might be also be attributed to attention bias. Interest in fungi steadily grew -in my perception at least- over the last years.
Take over the world as: bacteria, easy. Virus, easy, but a little random. Fungi? Now the player needs to start thinking. Source: Plague Inc.
Oh what now
A film by Adam Curtis about how all of us have become Richard Nixon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA
Love it, the mans brain is made of solid gold dogecoin tesla NFTs as always.
But these shorter Adam Curtis vids have always confused me a bit. Are they just parts of longer documentaries that Ive never come across or does he sometimes produce these things to be under 10min? Were these aired on the BBC in between other programs or something?
But these shorter Adam Curtis vids have always confused me a bit. Are they just parts of longer documentaries that Ive never come across or does he sometimes produce these things to be under 10min? Were these aired on the BBC in between other programs or something?
What the fuck are you all on about?
I believe this is extracted from “The Trap.”
Gotta keep the plebs scared or they may start asking questions...
Eat the bugs, live in the pod
Don't misunderestimate fungus, buddy: http://www.fao.org/agriculture/crops/rust/stem/rust-report/s...
And meteors, and murder hornets, and rip current, and sun flares, and cholesterol, and lightnings, tornados, straight-line wind, fast food, microwaves... and ... and ...
"Every man dies. Not every man really lives" - William Wallace
"Every man dies. Not every man really lives" - William Wallace
...and gubmint. hell yeah, let's go rob a bank. you in?
Puccinia and other crop diseases have historically led to a lot more human deaths than any of those other things put together.
One can do both. Even an uneducated poor grunt like me can simultaneously worry about novel diseases and the countless corrupt machinations at play the world over.
What great questions have you asked?
Wait, I thought it was prions. See?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18648043
>fallingknife on Dec 10, 2018
>Infectious disease is one area where fear of the unknown is rational. We don't just need to defend against existing diseases, but also diseases yet to emerge.
Sage wisdom shared a mere year before the covid outbreak.
>Infectious disease is one area where fear of the unknown is rational. We don't just need to defend against existing diseases, but also diseases yet to emerge.
Sage wisdom shared a mere year before the covid outbreak.
prions are one of those things I wish I never started reading about. It's like reading about Lovecraftian gods when you know there's nothing that could protect you if it hits you.
Por que no los dos?
But really the potential of prions is so bad if they could realise it we’d already be done for, they’d be a homogenising swarm.
Fungi though, fungi already do a lot, and they’re as ridiculously varied and flexible as they’ve been neglected. The next zoonotic threat being fungi makes a lot of sense, and it sounds rather bad.
But really the potential of prions is so bad if they could realise it we’d already be done for, they’d be a homogenising swarm.
Fungi though, fungi already do a lot, and they’re as ridiculously varied and flexible as they’ve been neglected. The next zoonotic threat being fungi makes a lot of sense, and it sounds rather bad.
Prions are dangerous but unlike fungi they remain rare. Mercifully.
"I have lived through many great tragedies in my life, and some of them actually happened"
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
Imagine posting this in 2018 under an article about coronaviruses in bats.
Yes, exactly, some of them actually happened!
Or in 2002 or 2011 about coronaviruses or in 2015 about ebola or in 2009 about swine flu or or or...
You don't get credit for predicting 10 of the last 1 pandemics.
You don't get credit for predicting 10 of the last 1 pandemics.
Ebola and H1N1 were both epidemics. The former wasn't a pandemic and the latter didn't kill that many people in hindsight, but they were most definitely epidemic in large communities.
With the disclaimer that I'm not an expert: Also, ebola didn't just fizzle out of its own accord, its spread was halted by a concerted, and brave, effort. Medics died fighting that epidemic. I suspect it could have been orders of magnitude more lethal had it been handled less effectively.
In related news, there has been a recent outbreak in India of deadly "Black Fungus" in Covid patients.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/may/11/what-is-the-d...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucormycosis
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/may/11/what-is-the-d...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucormycosis
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Fungi can be very potent. There is a form of fungi called Cordyceps that invade the brains of ants and change their behavior in a way that increases its spread. Here's a clip by Attenborough explaining it best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
They even made a movie about this jumping to humans called "The Girl with all the Gifts"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
They even made a movie about this jumping to humans called "The Girl with all the Gifts"
They also made a video game inspired by it, called The Last of Us. One of my favorite games.
This is where the inspiration for The Last of Us came from.
Another form of this is in Cicadas: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/18/997998920/the-fungus-thats-ma...
The fungi is essentially a cicada STD which eats at their bodies.
Another form of this is in Cicadas: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/18/997998920/the-fungus-thats-ma...
The fungi is essentially a cicada STD which eats at their bodies.
Mammals are much more resistant to parasites though - we have better immune systems, a high internal body temperature, and don't use pheromones. All of those are essentially there to prevent fungi from mind controlling us.
It's David Attenborough.
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Reminds me of this fantastic short novel: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27238610
Drug resistant microbes are getting bred by Indian pharma factories [corrected from "pharmacies"] through their own carelessness [1]. I think it's high time WHO or some such agency got more powers to penalize the perpetrators beyond the jurisdiction of the country. If these bugs start in one place, people on the other side of the globe get affected quickly too. At the moment, it seems that the best the west can do is not buy from factories that pollute. But this measure is insufficient.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EJuAU2Un4
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EJuAU2Un4
There was a big scandal a few years back, with a compounding pharmacy I think was in the northeastern US, which had some issue where they were contaminating medication with mold. It was being injected into patients, who were then having very diverse and horrible problems over time.
Boycotting Indian manufactured medication is probably neither feasible nor a solution. Nuances of regulation matter.
I remember a horror story about how patients would say their psych meds didn't work. Because the patients were, you know, mentally ill, nobody took it seriously. It turned out the FDA had approved the drug based on testing only some of the dosages, and the one that was problematic was not dissolving like it was supposed to.
Boycotting Indian manufactured medication is probably neither feasible nor a solution. Nuances of regulation matter.
I remember a horror story about how patients would say their psych meds didn't work. Because the patients were, you know, mentally ill, nobody took it seriously. It turned out the FDA had approved the drug based on testing only some of the dosages, and the one that was problematic was not dissolving like it was supposed to.
The article was about fungal infections, not bacterial infections. In both cases the amount of both antibiotics and anti-fungals used by humans is small relative to their use in agriculture. That may be an easier place to start, although it doesn't preclude sanction against whatever bad practices are described in your linked video (didn't watch).
The video is about effluents form the pharma industry. The scale dwarfs any abuse by both human patients and animal farming. I have modified my comment above because I had used the wrong word.
The only effective way to reduce use of anti-fungals in agriculture is to develop new resistant varieties of plants, but that is sadly blocked by people unreasonably fearing gmo.
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Tell me when I need to actually do something about it. Until then, I have better things to spend my mental energy on.
In India, Mucormycosis, a rare fungal infection is being seen in patients recovering from Covid-19. It has been declared an epidemic I believe. Doctors believe that high blood sugar and an indiscriminate use of steroids to reduce Covid-19 inflammation is linked to the spread.
This isn't surprising to me. In India a lot of state governments are sending covid pill packs to citizens which really don't do anything for covid and contain things like hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir, zinc, other steroids, and other blood thinners.
even the AIMS protocol doesn't recommend against drugs and techniques that the rest of the world has rejected almost a year ago. My partner treats covid in the US and has been doing consults to patients in India. Most of their work is telling patients to ignore the pills their doctors or government has been sending, although they rarely listen.
I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the covid negative or mild covid population is on steroids.
even the AIMS protocol doesn't recommend against drugs and techniques that the rest of the world has rejected almost a year ago. My partner treats covid in the US and has been doing consults to patients in India. Most of their work is telling patients to ignore the pills their doctors or government has been sending, although they rarely listen.
I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the covid negative or mild covid population is on steroids.
Systemic corticosteroids are strongly recommended for patients by WHO. I see from here https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/remdesi...
that also budesonide is recommended for patients with mild symptoms and the usage of is backed up by recent studies.
I do not think that the problem is steroid usage by itself but depressing lack of even basic hygiene even in hospitals.
PS. Blood thinning is standard procedure in COVID-19 care for many hospitals, dunno how reasonable at home without any tests. Remdesivir is injected, I do not believe that it is distributed. Perhaps you meant ivermectin?
I do not think that the problem is steroid usage by itself but depressing lack of even basic hygiene even in hospitals.
PS. Blood thinning is standard procedure in COVID-19 care for many hospitals, dunno how reasonable at home without any tests. Remdesivir is injected, I do not believe that it is distributed. Perhaps you meant ivermectin?
Systemic corticosteroids are not prescribed for patients with mild symptoms at home in America. Basically you get acetaminophen and are asked to quarantine similar to a cold. Budesonide is not recommended in the case either. I am talking about US standards, but I think EU and UK doctors would also agree with me.
Hygiene in hospital is definitely a possibly other issue.
At least by US standards, blood thinners are not a reasonable procedure for mild symptoms either. In general India is being extremely aggress with using prescriptions, at least compared to the west and Eastern Asia. There are many examples where AIMS protocol and Indian standard guidance is contrary to WHO, NHS, and CDC guidance.
Hygiene in hospital is definitely a possibly other issue.
At least by US standards, blood thinners are not a reasonable procedure for mild symptoms either. In general India is being extremely aggress with using prescriptions, at least compared to the west and Eastern Asia. There are many examples where AIMS protocol and Indian standard guidance is contrary to WHO, NHS, and CDC guidance.
You should be much more concerned about bacteria developing antibiotic resistance. While fungi are undoubtedly evolving quickly and may one day pose a risk to us, the devil we know is already working very quickly to overwhelm our best medications. And we know that without those medications millions per year will die.
But I'm not that worried about antibiotic resistance, because there are many ways to skin a cat. MRNA vaccines, bacteriophages, targeted antibiotics, nanotech, etc all offer us ways to break free from the natural arms race that we're in right now.
But I'm not that worried about antibiotic resistance, because there are many ways to skin a cat. MRNA vaccines, bacteriophages, targeted antibiotics, nanotech, etc all offer us ways to break free from the natural arms race that we're in right now.
We've got a lot of pharmacological weapons suitable for use against bacteria. For fungi we have azoles, amphotericin B... That's pretty much it.
My microbiology professor used to be terrified of these things. Probably still is.
My microbiology professor used to be terrified of these things. Probably still is.
There is a new third class of anti fungals
The issue with fungi is that we have so litte efficient medication. What little we do have is slowly being render useless by its overuse in agriculture.
It will be the new COVID?
I for one welcome our new Cordycep Overlords:
* https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Cordyceps_Brain_Infectio...
* https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Cordyceps_Brain_Infectio...
Radiolab published a podcast about it in 2020: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
Discussed previously on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995095
Where commenters of course insist that fungi can't develop resistance to anti-fungals, and fungal infections aren't dangerous in the first place.
Where commenters of course insist that fungi can't develop resistance to anti-fungals, and fungal infections aren't dangerous in the first place.