New Firefox(blog.mozilla.org)
blog.mozilla.org
New Firefox
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/news/modern-clean-new-firefox-clears-the-way-to-all-you-need-online/
63 comments
I understand your point, but
> Fitts’ law states that the amount of time required for a person to move a pointer (e.g., mouse cursor) to a target area is a function of the distance to the target divided by the size of the target. Thus, the longer the distance and the smaller the target’s size, the longer it takes.
Tabs are clicked on a lot, therefore they should be bigger.
> Fitts’ law states that the amount of time required for a person to move a pointer (e.g., mouse cursor) to a target area is a function of the distance to the target divided by the size of the target. Thus, the longer the distance and the smaller the target’s size, the longer it takes.
Tabs are clicked on a lot, therefore they should be bigger.
Unless you have a lot of tabs. The larger font size makes it harder to read what the tab is without clicking on it. Makes you scroll more to see which tabs are open
Wish things didn't take up so much more whitespace on desktops.
I miss the original Chrome UI. https://img.informer.com/p0/google-chrome-v1-built-in-downlo...
Things were much tighter and most of the space was kept empty for web content.
The new Firefox redesign is really nice and clean to look at though.
I miss the original Chrome UI. https://img.informer.com/p0/google-chrome-v1-built-in-downlo...
Things were much tighter and most of the space was kept empty for web content.
The new Firefox redesign is really nice and clean to look at though.
This seems like the same problem with have with RAM requirements, we have more resolution and RAM than we used to have in the past so developers and designers waste more of it because they don't need to be as careful as they used to.
But using much ram is still bad. Using much whitespace is viewed as a staple of modern design. I don't like it either, I have enough empty space on my wall. I buy my screen to display information.
You can set some flags in about:config to make the UI more compact:
browser.proton.enabled to false browser.uidensity to 1
browser.proton.enabled to false browser.uidensity to 1
The proton enable thing will go away in the next version. The compact mode will probably keep working a while longer but as they recovered the UI option for it, the writing is on the wall...
Thank you!
I still miss those slanted tabs. It just looks so much better.
Aside from various coats of paint, the Chrome tab UI is still the same. Which I'm thankful for. Firefox has gone through a few redesigns lately; Australis, Photon, and Proton (latest)
Gotta re-arrange those deck chairs!
isn't there more vertical whitespace now?
I'm using Vivaldi for this specific reason.
Yeah, no white space at all, in dark mode..
I wonder if this can be changed via user CSS?
Is it coincidence that comments are turned off on _all_ videos on YouTube[1] related to the redesigns?
What options do I as a "normie" have to give feedback? Is there really only one way, to use the ancient Bugzilla and hopefully finding a ticket somewhere?
[1] https://www.youtube.com/c/firefox/videos
What options do I as a "normie" have to give feedback? Is there really only one way, to use the ancient Bugzilla and hopefully finding a ticket somewhere?
[1] https://www.youtube.com/c/firefox/videos
Unpopular opinion: in this day and age, comment sections under blog posts and especially YouTube videos tend to turn extremely toxic so fast it doesn't make any sense to keep them open at all. I haven't seen any comment different than memes, FUD or trolling under a YouTube video in years.
1) goto firefox.com
2) scroll to bottom, where most companies put contact info
3) click 'contact'
or!
'file a bug'
OR!
There's a bunch of social media links.
> Is it coincidence that comments are turned off on _all_ videos on YouTube[1] related to the redesigns?
Many companies/organizations always disable comments because they don't want to have to moderate them.
Many companies/organizations always disable comments because they don't want to have to moderate them.
Every UI redesign or logo/brand redesign yields an avalanche of negative feedback. It's understandable that they'd be looking for actionable feedback elsewhere.
They're not interested in any feedback.. The lack of tab separators was acknowledged by the design team yet still ignored.
Projects like Mozilla and GNOME have naked contempt for user feedback and go out of their way to avoid and disregard it. They say we're all idiots who "want faster horses instead of cars". But really it's about power. If user feedback were valued, the personal whims of the "UX experts" would be accordingly devalued. And they simply cannot stand giving up that power.
Let's not forget that when users can give feedback, many of them are harsh and entitled about it. See why some projects turn off the GitHub issue tracker.
The last time I bothered to use Mozillas bugtracker, it was to report errors in the way Firefox was interacting with my screen reader. I had an utterly dispassionate tone, despite this matter being very important to me, because I had heard stories about Mozilla devs being very touchy and quick to take offense.
For my trouble, I was told that accessibility features on MacOS were a low priority (?!?) and nothing ever came of it.
For my trouble, I was told that accessibility features on MacOS were a low priority (?!?) and nothing ever came of it.
man, it sucks to see such stories. especially for such big scale projects/products accessibility should be high priority :(
This. Your overlords do not care what you think. Your overlords know what is best for you. There will be no feedback. There will be only compliance.
"Modern, clean, new".
Is this self-mockery? It's hard to tell. But those adjectives often crop up with low budget knock-off* products whose makers don't have substantive things to say.
(Disclosure: I've used Firefox since 2008-ish, when it got me half an hour more battery life on my laptop than Chrome. Still using it.)
* knock-off: poorly executed clone.
Is this self-mockery? It's hard to tell. But those adjectives often crop up with low budget knock-off* products whose makers don't have substantive things to say.
(Disclosure: I've used Firefox since 2008-ish, when it got me half an hour more battery life on my laptop than Chrome. Still using it.)
* knock-off: poorly executed clone.
Those adjectives crop up everywhere, as far as I can tell. Low budget, high budget, MBA-driven companies, engineer-driven companies, ...
They don't actually mean anything, from what I see. They're just what you say.
"Clean" is the only one that might mean something, but it reminds me of the old marketing question: "Which sounds better: 'Contains noropyronethrin!' or 'Contains less noropyronethrin than other leading brands!'?"
They don't actually mean anything, from what I see. They're just what you say.
"Clean" is the only one that might mean something, but it reminds me of the old marketing question: "Which sounds better: 'Contains noropyronethrin!' or 'Contains less noropyronethrin than other leading brands!'?"
I'm really not sure about "Streamlined clutter-free menus": the screenshot with the menu shows way too many things in there, and what is "more tools"?
I mean, this is relatively speaking. It’s a lot better than the old version, which was a lot harder to understand and navigate at a glance.
Unfortunately the dark mode now seems to be more like a dark blue mode. It looks very cheap, almost as if it's caused by a badly adjusted screen.
I tried fixing it with the css grayscale attribute in userchrome.css but ran into performance problems.
... open for any ideas on how to make the blue go away.
I tried fixing it with the css grayscale attribute in userchrome.css but ran into performance problems.
... open for any ideas on how to make the blue go away.
Firefox color lets you easily customise those colours: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-color...
This is great. Thank you so much for making me aware of this extension. It took two minutes to go through every color and remove the blue taint.
For me, plain black looks very cheap: it shows me that my monitor's "black" actually is grey (hardware dependent of course). By opting for color, the off-blackness is intentional and thus forgivable.
Very hardware dependent. On a lot of modern OLEDs black pixels can be entirely unlit (versus even just the slightest dark gray shade away from black needs to be lit). A lot of the people usually asking for dark modes that use true black like how those pixels look when unlit (on OLEDs). Depending on lighting conditions, things in true black really do disappear from the screen, and it directly cuts down on the overall amount of light emitted from the screen.
And it saves a ton of battery life!
Have you tried something like ShadowFox?
https://overdodactyl.github.io/ShadowFox/
There is something deeply depressing about "all you need online" being videos, pictures, and memes of dogs.
What a bunch of dopes we are.
What a bunch of dopes we are.
We're only dopes in the version of reality they're trying to create.
This removes one of the annoyances that kept me from switching back to Firefox. They've actually been doing a decent job lately. I'm back using Firefox for the time being.
Recent Annoyances Fixed:
1) too slow
1) no default global zoom
2) can't type a site and tab to search
3) cluttered ui, with features too many clicks deep
4) pocket is too in your face and takes too many steps to turn off
Remaining Annoyances:
1) no chrome-like tab groups
2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click
3) middle clicking on bookmark toolbar items opens them in the foreground, not background
4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome
Recent Annoyances Fixed:
1) too slow
1) no default global zoom
2) can't type a site and tab to search
3) cluttered ui, with features too many clicks deep
4) pocket is too in your face and takes too many steps to turn off
Remaining Annoyances:
1) no chrome-like tab groups
2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click
3) middle clicking on bookmark toolbar items opens them in the foreground, not background
4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome
OTOH, this is taking away one of the few features still keeping me on Firefox - a separate search bar.
At this point, I increasingly can't differentiate Firefox from Chrome or Edge, which are better supported anyway.
Decisions based on "user data" have been a disaster for Firefox. The only reason any normal person ever used Firefox is because power users evangelized it - they don't get to be the default, pre-installed browser anywhere, and they don't have the world's biggest web properties constantly pushing for them. Power users are it. Obviously, the data will always reflect that any set of power user features is used only by a tiny amount of people.
But everything Mozilla has done in the past few years has been done to alienate power users and appeal to the non-existent normal user who goes out and downloads another browser. At this point with this redesign I'm basically done. If Firefox wants to be Chrome or Edge, I'm just going to use Chrome or Edge.
At this point, I increasingly can't differentiate Firefox from Chrome or Edge, which are better supported anyway.
Decisions based on "user data" have been a disaster for Firefox. The only reason any normal person ever used Firefox is because power users evangelized it - they don't get to be the default, pre-installed browser anywhere, and they don't have the world's biggest web properties constantly pushing for them. Power users are it. Obviously, the data will always reflect that any set of power user features is used only by a tiny amount of people.
But everything Mozilla has done in the past few years has been done to alienate power users and appeal to the non-existent normal user who goes out and downloads another browser. At this point with this redesign I'm basically done. If Firefox wants to be Chrome or Edge, I'm just going to use Chrome or Edge.
If a little redesign makes you move to Chrome, what exactly was stopping you?
Mostly inertia. I’ve been using it since 1.0.
There’s been a trickle of changes over the years going in this direction. This was just the last straw. It’s becoming increasingly Less useful to me.
I don’t like Chrome but it’s better supported and it and Edge are more widely available by default. There’s simply no advantage anymore to using Firefox.
I’m the kind of guy that installs Firefox on everyone’s computer when they ask me to “fix” it and that recommends it to them. But their whole strategy has turned me off. And it won’t gain them any other market share either.
There’s been a trickle of changes over the years going in this direction. This was just the last straw. It’s becoming increasingly Less useful to me.
I don’t like Chrome but it’s better supported and it and Edge are more widely available by default. There’s simply no advantage anymore to using Firefox.
I’m the kind of guy that installs Firefox on everyone’s computer when they ask me to “fix” it and that recommends it to them. But their whole strategy has turned me off. And it won’t gain them any other market share either.
Hi! Not sponsored or anything, but if you want a separate search bar, Vivaldi (vivaldi.com) has that. Just thought it might help.
If you want a separate search bar you go to the firefox customisation page (same page as all other firefox customisations) and literally drag and drop the search bar back into the header
Oh, look -- still there! Thanks!
> "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click
Always thought that was a security thing, so you can’t be tricked to download a file you may not want.
Separately, I do wish FF had “Save As” for downloads. Right Click and “Save Link As” is not compatible with all downloads.
Always thought that was a security thing, so you can’t be tricked to download a file you may not want.
Separately, I do wish FF had “Save As” for downloads. Right Click and “Save Link As” is not compatible with all downloads.
> Separately, I do wish FF had “Save As” for downloads. Right Click and “Save Link As” is not compatible with all downloads.
about:preferences, Files and Applications, Downloads, Always ask you where to save files
about:preferences, Files and Applications, Downloads, Always ask you where to save files
1) no chrome-like tab groups
I like Tree Style Tabs and I've heard good things about Sidebery.
2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click
This makes me feel old. I remember back when this was added and some of why. (Used to be bad malware that would try to auto-download stuff back in the dialup eras where you couldn't afford to download stuff you didn't mean to download.) It's less useful today and been a while since some of those worst malware programs like that have existed or been seen as much in the wild. But even knowing it is mostly theater at this point I still have this "comfort" in the added safety of that "extra click". (And I have never liked Chrome's download anything and everything automatically by default approach.)
4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome
The other perspective is: Chrome maybe needs to stop running so far out ahead of all the standards work. Now more than ever with such a huge percentage of the web audience, Chrome should maybe take some responsibility and slow down for the sake of better web standards. As a web developer I know that I still take seriously "if it doesn't work yet in Firefox it is too soon to safely depend on it", but I'm an old (as established above).
I like Tree Style Tabs and I've heard good things about Sidebery.
2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click
This makes me feel old. I remember back when this was added and some of why. (Used to be bad malware that would try to auto-download stuff back in the dialup eras where you couldn't afford to download stuff you didn't mean to download.) It's less useful today and been a while since some of those worst malware programs like that have existed or been seen as much in the wild. But even knowing it is mostly theater at this point I still have this "comfort" in the added safety of that "extra click". (And I have never liked Chrome's download anything and everything automatically by default approach.)
4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome
The other perspective is: Chrome maybe needs to stop running so far out ahead of all the standards work. Now more than ever with such a huge percentage of the web audience, Chrome should maybe take some responsibility and slow down for the sake of better web standards. As a web developer I know that I still take seriously "if it doesn't work yet in Firefox it is too soon to safely depend on it", but I'm an old (as established above).
I wouldn't describe running as Chrome running so far ahead. Some of it is ahead, and some of it is off to the side, into some swamps and sinkholes that are not a good idea to go into.
Or to switch the metaphor slightly, Chrome is like a ship saying "hey, our hull is strong enough to go bump into that iceberg over there! I bet there are people who would love to get onto it. Let's give it a try!"
[I am a Mozilla employee, and biased.]
I'm not actually opposed to getting some of that functionality, but not until there is some kind of believable restricted-access story that makes it very clear what the user is agreeing to. Permission prompts that train us to ignore them are not that thing. Wording that only talks about the benefits of allowing things are not that either. I haven't seen anything particularly serious in this direction. (It's a hard problem. Users wildly underestimate probability of abuse and harm, especially when it makes total sense for a specific person but not for the other hundred million.)
Or to switch the metaphor slightly, Chrome is like a ship saying "hey, our hull is strong enough to go bump into that iceberg over there! I bet there are people who would love to get onto it. Let's give it a try!"
[I am a Mozilla employee, and biased.]
I'm not actually opposed to getting some of that functionality, but not until there is some kind of believable restricted-access story that makes it very clear what the user is agreeing to. Permission prompts that train us to ignore them are not that thing. Wording that only talks about the benefits of allowing things are not that either. I haven't seen anything particularly serious in this direction. (It's a hard problem. Users wildly underestimate probability of abuse and harm, especially when it makes total sense for a specific person but not for the other hundred million.)
The save file thing is for security so you don't accidentally hit enter to download something you don't want.
You should be able to change that by going to about:config, searching security.dialog_enable_delay, and double clicking. You could also try changing your preferences to tell Firefox to always save to some location
You should be able to change that by going to about:config, searching security.dialog_enable_delay, and double clicking. You could also try changing your preferences to tell Firefox to always save to some location
You can paint the outside of your house any color you want, but there's still cracks in the foundation.
I've been using this in nightly builds for the last many weeks, and I have to say, I am impressed.
The new UI feels great. Dark mode is well done. Speed is finally on par with Chrome. And compatibility is as good as it's ever been. Only very occasionally do I run into a bug caused by Firefox's shortcomings.
Still on my wish list, though: better echo cancellation in WebRTC; don't hijack ctrl-b and ctrl-i; support backdrop-filter; support <dialog> element...
The new UI feels great. Dark mode is well done. Speed is finally on par with Chrome. And compatibility is as good as it's ever been. Only very occasionally do I run into a bug caused by Firefox's shortcomings.
Still on my wish list, though: better echo cancellation in WebRTC; don't hijack ctrl-b and ctrl-i; support backdrop-filter; support <dialog> element...
I don't want things modern and clean. Please stop making things modern and clean. I want things that are human and have some kind of soul left in them instead of being antiseptically scoured of anything resembling personality.
I also want programs made for adults who know how computers work, and are capable of leveraging complex but functional UI to actually do stuff with some degree of sophistication. Making programs more and more like a Playskool toy with every update is, by definition, regression, not progress.
There's not much use in complaining though. Firefox has been a lost cause for years now.
I also want programs made for adults who know how computers work, and are capable of leveraging complex but functional UI to actually do stuff with some degree of sophistication. Making programs more and more like a Playskool toy with every update is, by definition, regression, not progress.
There's not much use in complaining though. Firefox has been a lost cause for years now.
>I don't want things modern and clean. Please stop making things modern and clean. I want things that are human and have some kind of soul left in them instead of being antiseptically scoured of anything resembling personality.
It seems to me like you're complaining about a trend you associate with the wording rather than the specific changes to Firefox here.
Or which of the changes to Firefox do you associate with having "less soul" or "less personality"?
It seems to me like you're complaining about a trend you associate with the wording rather than the specific changes to Firefox here.
Or which of the changes to Firefox do you associate with having "less soul" or "less personality"?
I wanted to try one new theme, but I reverted. I use TST and now Sidebery and had hidden top tab bar with user chrome. The themes no longer enforce the rule. Wish there was native support for hiding top tab bar.
HN's disdain for redesigns in very short-sighted.
Nobody will be using your cool backend algos if they are not exposed to the user in some meaningful, user-centric, consistent way.
We should be thankful so much effort is put in UX development, otherwise all the cool backend algos would be pointless.
Especially since Firefox did not just say "hey let's make this button bigger and this button green“.
They did empirical research, heatmaps etc., to analyse how the UX could be made objectively, measurably better.
I invite everyone to read this article about how Wikipedia took several years to implement the "show preview when hovering a link" feature.
This is how much thought needs to be given to UX to not make it half-assed
https://diff.wikimedia.org/2018/04/20/why-it-took-a-long-tim...
Nobody will be using your cool backend algos if they are not exposed to the user in some meaningful, user-centric, consistent way.
We should be thankful so much effort is put in UX development, otherwise all the cool backend algos would be pointless.
Especially since Firefox did not just say "hey let's make this button bigger and this button green“.
They did empirical research, heatmaps etc., to analyse how the UX could be made objectively, measurably better.
I invite everyone to read this article about how Wikipedia took several years to implement the "show preview when hovering a link" feature.
This is how much thought needs to be given to UX to not make it half-assed
https://diff.wikimedia.org/2018/04/20/why-it-took-a-long-tim...
> I invite everyone to read this article about how Wikipedia took several years to implement the "show preview when hovering a link" feature.
But we are talking about Firefox not Wikipedia. I would be happy to read a full article about mozilla's choices.
Overall the design seems better, but there are some points of this new design that are widely questioned such as the new tab design.
Moreover we don't use Firefox as we use a web page like Wikipedia. A browser in my opinion must be as discreet and customizable as possible in the user experience, whereas this is not the case for a website that offers a fixed user experience for all users. The removal of the compact mode for example goes against my vision of what a browser should be.
But we are talking about Firefox not Wikipedia. I would be happy to read a full article about mozilla's choices.
Overall the design seems better, but there are some points of this new design that are widely questioned such as the new tab design.
Moreover we don't use Firefox as we use a web page like Wikipedia. A browser in my opinion must be as discreet and customizable as possible in the user experience, whereas this is not the case for a website that offers a fixed user experience for all users. The removal of the compact mode for example goes against my vision of what a browser should be.
The buttons, white space between things, tab bar, etc..
I can only see about 2/3 of the bookmarks in my menu that I could before.
I don't understand why modern design focuses on so much useless space.