Ask HN: What are the challenges of being an immigrant in the US?
Is the US a welcoming country overall? What if you more of a blue-colllared worker?
35 comments
It’s all the paperwork that’s a nightmare. Drivers licenses, USCIS and it’s fucking endless nonsense, infinite paperwork. Just paperwork paperwork paperwork.
Massive taxes without any benefit.
And most Americans haven’t a clue how much trouble it is. It’s a constant thundercloud in your life.
Anyway, Americans are super friendly and very nice. A few among them are very motivated and the country is unbelievably wealthy so there is a lot of opportunity. Most locals don’t like to challenge themselves very much but the country will give to you tenfold what you put in so it’s worth all the pain and then some.
Oh and don’t go to all the weird places if you aren’t white. Pick an election map and stick to cities and areas that were colored blue. On the Internet people will get very offended about this and tell you how the finest people they know are in the other parts and they much prefer people be upfront and straightforward and all that. But here’s straight talk: stick to the places colored blue.
This is a white collar perspective.
Massive taxes without any benefit.
And most Americans haven’t a clue how much trouble it is. It’s a constant thundercloud in your life.
Anyway, Americans are super friendly and very nice. A few among them are very motivated and the country is unbelievably wealthy so there is a lot of opportunity. Most locals don’t like to challenge themselves very much but the country will give to you tenfold what you put in so it’s worth all the pain and then some.
Oh and don’t go to all the weird places if you aren’t white. Pick an election map and stick to cities and areas that were colored blue. On the Internet people will get very offended about this and tell you how the finest people they know are in the other parts and they much prefer people be upfront and straightforward and all that. But here’s straight talk: stick to the places colored blue.
This is a white collar perspective.
Ever lived in Asia? You talked paperwork and damn the US looks like an ultra-efficient system compared to some Asia countries. A form requires multiple signatures, all different departments in different parts of a city. A the "official" stamps mean none of it can be electronic.
Makes the DMV look like a well oiled machine.
Makes the DMV look like a well oiled machine.
ignore this and go where you want.
Go all the weird place you want. Some people need to feel that the country is some hell hole outside of a few cities, it isn't. Also you will pay less, gas will probably be cheaper. Enjoy.
Go all the weird place you want. Some people need to feel that the country is some hell hole outside of a few cities, it isn't. Also you will pay less, gas will probably be cheaper. Enjoy.
I think the contrast between American opinions and immigrant opinions in this thread should immediately suffice for the reader to draw conclusions.
I should warn you that this will be normal. You will see this. People who will never face what you will will tell you about how it’s perfectly okay and everything is great etc etc.
Talk to other people like you and know a more lived reality.
I should warn you that this will be normal. You will see this. People who will never face what you will will tell you about how it’s perfectly okay and everything is great etc etc.
Talk to other people like you and know a more lived reality.
Americans don’t have a clue about US immigration paperwork or USCIS because we don’t have to deal with that. You probably don’t know how hard it is to immigrate to your home country either. Having done it both ways in my experience the US bureaucracy was no worse than some other places, and not corrupt like some places. I’ve been asked outright for bribes in SE Asia and Mexico by immigration authorities, something that doesn’t happen in the US or EU.
Plenty of people have already replied about the challenges. I would like to add a few tips that would help a lot as an immigrant.
1. The moment you land in America, you need to try and get a Social Security Number (SSN). As a legal immigrant, you can get this by applying either yourself or through your school/employer etc.
2. Once you have SSN and a decent proof of Address (lease/school letter), go and apply for a local State ID at your local Motor Vehicle Agency. You probably won't be able to geta Driver's License right away BUT many people don't know that you can get a State Identification Card or State ID which is really useful for ID purposes. Carrying your passport everywhere for ID if needed is very inconvenient and frankly opens you up for more scrutiny unfortunately. Get a State ID.
3. Go to a local bank/credit union and ask them for a secured line of credit. In other words, they will ask you to deposit something like $500 and in return give you an actual credit card (not a debit card). This will help you build credit slowly over time. Don't wait for this. Do it as soon as you can. Debit cards in US will not help with building a credit score.
Once you have these in order, you will find it much easier to get other things done.
As an immigrant to the US who is now a citizen for many years, I can tell you that most Americans are friendly and want to help but there is a lot of ignorance as well. Racism etc exist but it is not as common. What really hurts the immigrants is the ignorance and knowledge gap that Americans in general have especially if they have never travelled outside. But most mean well and you just have to be patient and get your ducks in a row. All the best.
1. The moment you land in America, you need to try and get a Social Security Number (SSN). As a legal immigrant, you can get this by applying either yourself or through your school/employer etc.
2. Once you have SSN and a decent proof of Address (lease/school letter), go and apply for a local State ID at your local Motor Vehicle Agency. You probably won't be able to geta Driver's License right away BUT many people don't know that you can get a State Identification Card or State ID which is really useful for ID purposes. Carrying your passport everywhere for ID if needed is very inconvenient and frankly opens you up for more scrutiny unfortunately. Get a State ID.
3. Go to a local bank/credit union and ask them for a secured line of credit. In other words, they will ask you to deposit something like $500 and in return give you an actual credit card (not a debit card). This will help you build credit slowly over time. Don't wait for this. Do it as soon as you can. Debit cards in US will not help with building a credit score.
Once you have these in order, you will find it much easier to get other things done.
As an immigrant to the US who is now a citizen for many years, I can tell you that most Americans are friendly and want to help but there is a lot of ignorance as well. Racism etc exist but it is not as common. What really hurts the immigrants is the ignorance and knowledge gap that Americans in general have especially if they have never travelled outside. But most mean well and you just have to be patient and get your ducks in a row. All the best.
Many people have mentioned the red-tape around immigration paperwork. One thing not mentioned yet is the emotional aspect. When you come here for an extended period of time you build your life and hopes here. You pray everything comes through and that one day you will get that green card and citizenship, and pray nothing happens with the legal process (loss of employment, deportation, visa issues, etc).
It’s the same as having credit card debt, it will keep you up at night. It takes tremendous coping mechanisms to power through.
It’s the same as having credit card debt, it will keep you up at night. It takes tremendous coping mechanisms to power through.
Most people don't care. I have a friend and business partner from India who was an undocumented immigrant, his father was a doctor and brought his family with him. When my friend was 18 he was supposed to take a test to become a citizen and he did not. Eventually they found out and he served 4 years in the US Army to become a citizen.
Just work on your English and try to avoid an accent. Some people are picky about people with accents. Learn the culture, laws, religions, society norms and you'll do fine.
I studied International Business and it tells you how to blend in to a new country.
Just work on your English and try to avoid an accent. Some people are picky about people with accents. Learn the culture, laws, religions, society norms and you'll do fine.
I studied International Business and it tells you how to blend in to a new country.
Your accent isn’t something you can just avoid.
You can of course put some conscious effort in to having less of an accent.
I've sometimes had difficulty making myself understood with my Dutch accent, which isn't always very practical. Especially in noisier environments and over the phone it can be annoying.
On the other hand, I also see it as just who I am. Would you ask an Irish person to change their accent? Of course not; it's part of their identity. On the other hand, if someone with a strong Irish accent would move to the US, NZ, or even the UK it might be wise to tone things down a bit so folk actually understand what you're saying. And asking where the craic is at would likely be received similarly to Checkov asking where the nuclear wessels are.
It's all a bit of a fine balance.
I've sometimes had difficulty making myself understood with my Dutch accent, which isn't always very practical. Especially in noisier environments and over the phone it can be annoying.
On the other hand, I also see it as just who I am. Would you ask an Irish person to change their accent? Of course not; it's part of their identity. On the other hand, if someone with a strong Irish accent would move to the US, NZ, or even the UK it might be wise to tone things down a bit so folk actually understand what you're saying. And asking where the craic is at would likely be received similarly to Checkov asking where the nuclear wessels are.
It's all a bit of a fine balance.
I think there is subtle racism in the form of romanticizing it when European people speak English with their heavy accent and despising it when an Indian person speaks English with their accent. That's the truth and you always have to work around it.
Yeah us is overall welcoming. It helps if you hang out with the locals and not a local ethnic enclave. Also helps to be in a liberal area.
The biggest problem is having to deal with USCIS, at least until you get your green card. Simple things like renewing your driver license, getting a mortgage, filling your taxes becomes way more complicated and sometimes impossible. Depending on the type of your your visa, you may have to postpone your foreign travel or job changes while done paperwork is stick in limbo at the USCIS. And if somehow you get into a complicated situation because USCIS messed up your application (happens more often than you think), be prepared to be stonewalled or ignored while you pull your hair out trying to fix it.
Credit score. As a foreigner, you won't have one. And can't rent an apartment, buy a car, or get a mortgage. Many companies run a credit check as part of the pre-hire background check.
If you are able to befriend a local with good credit and get them to trust you so they're willing to cosign, you can work around this, but it's a barrier that is not to be unaware of. Immigrant communities are built on people that do this for others creating community.
If you are able to befriend a local with good credit and get them to trust you so they're willing to cosign, you can work around this, but it's a barrier that is not to be unaware of. Immigrant communities are built on people that do this for others creating community.
To help build up a credit score you can register for a credit-card and try to use it as much as possible (paying it off in full each month). Once you build up a paper-trail it gets easier, but can be tricky to start.
> Credit score. As a foreigner, you won't have one. And can't rent an apartment, buy a car, or get a mortgage. Many companies run a credit check as part of the pre-hire background check.
I'm curious. Isn't enough to show your latest payroll? Or, if it's is your very first month, your contract stating how much you'll earn. In Europe there are credit rating companies, but relying on payrolls are a thing as well.
I'm curious. Isn't enough to show your latest payroll? Or, if it's is your very first month, your contract stating how much you'll earn. In Europe there are credit rating companies, but relying on payrolls are a thing as well.
It is perfectly possible to get by without buying into the credit scam. You just have to do things the way they were done 50 years ago: present a recent paycheck, present a current bank statement showing that you have enough in the bank, get an endorsement or cosigner from someone with the monetary means.
Some combinatiom of the above will do and make sure that you are able to speak to a human. Of course, this means that its cpnsoderably more difficult to live outside of your means. It is almost as if systems were set up to encourage people living outside of their means..
Some combinatiom of the above will do and make sure that you are able to speak to a human. Of course, this means that its cpnsoderably more difficult to live outside of your means. It is almost as if systems were set up to encourage people living outside of their means..
When I lived in the States 10 years ago, my employer had to to get me an international bank account (with credit card) and a cell phone. I had to wait six months to do anything.
In addition to dealing with the absurd amount of immigration paperwork mentioned in the other comments: the fact that the US doesn’t recognize foreign records for most matters, even when it would be very easy to do so.
Foreign driver’s license? In most states there is no way to exchange it directly for a local one like most other countries do, you’ll have to sit the driving test again. This even applies to licenses issued by jurisdictions like Canada or Europe, which have similar driving customs and laws.
Foreign driving record? Unless you were driving in neighbouring Canada, with most insurers it won’t count for insurance purposes. You’ll be starting with crazy high premiums like a new driver, as if you never drove a car before.
Foreign credit score? Nope, you’ll have to start from scratch and pay high interest rates on car payments, and deal with a very low credit limit on your credit card. It won’t no matter what limit your previous cards abroad trusted you with. Also you won’t be able to get a phone on a contract, you’ll have to get a prepaid or BYOD because of your low credit score.
Foreign driver’s license? In most states there is no way to exchange it directly for a local one like most other countries do, you’ll have to sit the driving test again. This even applies to licenses issued by jurisdictions like Canada or Europe, which have similar driving customs and laws.
Foreign driving record? Unless you were driving in neighbouring Canada, with most insurers it won’t count for insurance purposes. You’ll be starting with crazy high premiums like a new driver, as if you never drove a car before.
Foreign credit score? Nope, you’ll have to start from scratch and pay high interest rates on car payments, and deal with a very low credit limit on your credit card. It won’t no matter what limit your previous cards abroad trusted you with. Also you won’t be able to get a phone on a contract, you’ll have to get a prepaid or BYOD because of your low credit score.
This works the same in other directions. Try getting a visa, work permit, job, bank account, credit as a foreigner immigrating to anywhere in Europe, or Japan, or almost anywhere else.
I don’t think it’s helpful to paint with as broad a brush as you are.
The processes of immigrating to the Netherlands for example are vastly less Kafkaesque and not subject to luck or some bureaucrat’s mood at the time. Everywhere else is not necessarily as difficult as America.
The processes of immigrating to the Netherlands for example are vastly less Kafkaesque and not subject to luck or some bureaucrat’s mood at the time. Everywhere else is not necessarily as difficult as America.
A lot of countries don't have the high dependence on credit scores as in the US AFAIK, indeed, in quite a few (most, if not all?) European countries "credit cards" are rather uncommon.
Small sample of my own immigrant wife and some immigrant friends. Establishing credit in the US is ridiculously easy. Immigrants with jobs are targeted with credit offers (presumably based on data showing they pay their debts at least as reliably as native-born citizens.) Less than a year after arriving in America my wife had credit cards and a good FICO score, good enough to buy a car at a competitive rate. I didn’t have to co-sign.
Alrighty!
Personally I think getting credit for the sake of it is rather silly though. It offends all sorts of sensibilities I have about credit and financial responsibility.
Personally I think getting credit for the sake of it is rather silly though. It offends all sorts of sensibilities I have about credit and financial responsibility.
That’s a personal decision. I was addressing the claim that getting credit, or not having credit history, is a challenge for immigrants to the US. It’s a challenge for young American citizens too. I’m sure it’s a challenge but I think it’s a small one. The biggest challenge for immigrants I’ve seen first-hand is getting fluent in English.
This is highly state dependent. Plenty of US states will swap out a foreign license (Canada or Europe) for a US license.
In my experience (many years on the east coast as an immigrant) I found people very friendly.
I felt like people cared less about where you are from and what you do (blue collar/white collar) compared to my home country.
In some larger cities, specialized blue-collar workers can earn high wages (home-repair type work) due to a shortage of these skills in high cost-of-living areas.
I felt like people cared less about where you are from and what you do (blue collar/white collar) compared to my home country.
In some larger cities, specialized blue-collar workers can earn high wages (home-repair type work) due to a shortage of these skills in high cost-of-living areas.
People can be the biggest challenge. You’ll discover that the further you get from the immigrant friendly areas of the east and west coasts. My advice to newcomers has always been to stick to the interstates while traveling within the US, and general feedback has been they thought I was a loon until they drove down a state highway and got pulled over by the cops six times wanting to know if they were lost, or got stared at constantly by all the rural people who had never seen a non-caucasian in person. The biggest issue is that most Americans can’t distinguish between the different varieties of non-caucasians so regardless of where you are from you’ll get a lot of random flack for stealing people’s jobs or blowing up the World Trade Center. Once while traveling I had a one year old girl refer to my wife as the N word - the parents didn’t cause any problems and they noticeably stuck a bottle in her mouth really quick after she said it, but obviously the girl had been present at enough discussions that she thought that is what non-caucasians were called. I imagine that when not patronizing Arby’s the family must just sit around the TV every night and holler out slurs every time they see a dark skinned person - not sure how else a one year old would pick that up.
this sounds almost like parody. Most immigrants I know had remarkably good experiences in more rural and less cosmopolitan places. Yes, the sort of 'redneck racism' for a lack of a better term exists, but on the other hand people are actually generally curious, kind and if you manage to work your way into a community you'll actually not only accepted but have people to rely on.
I suspect the take comes from a very white collar background. If you're a highly educated immigrant you'll do well in America's coastal states, if you're a blue collar immigrant good luck entering the service class.
And this is actually backed by data. Contrary to self-image major US metropolitan areas are highly segregated, more so than the south, and interestingly enough the mountain west and plains states have the lowest levels of segregation
https://belonging.berkeley.edu/roots-structural-racism
I suspect the take comes from a very white collar background. If you're a highly educated immigrant you'll do well in America's coastal states, if you're a blue collar immigrant good luck entering the service class.
And this is actually backed by data. Contrary to self-image major US metropolitan areas are highly segregated, more so than the south, and interestingly enough the mountain west and plains states have the lowest levels of segregation
https://belonging.berkeley.edu/roots-structural-racism
Anecdotally I’ve observed in rural areas, from which I was born and raised, fast food jobs, paper delivery, some janitorial work, etc., are all done by teenagers who do it for summer cash or just building their initial work experience. In the metro areas, where I live and/or travel, these jobs are exclusively staffed by older immigrants.
I don’t think it’s fair for people to say you’re lying. People in the rural US really can be quite racist. Same in rural anywhere I suppose. I lived in Taiwan for a couple of years and although the racial ignorance does not go as far as racism and violence (maybe except toward southeast Asians) it’s strong. People will stare, comment under their breath, make ridiculous and insulting assumptions about you, call you names, etc. During the pandemic if you didn’t look Taiwanese some people wouldn’t even let you inside their shops or restaurants, they’d request to see your passport and travel history but let Taiwanese-looking people waltz right in.
I do think it’s fair to say people in rural areas of any country have less exposure to people outside of their own little tribe. Hopefully this continues to change as internet becomes more omnipresent.
I do think it’s fair to say people in rural areas of any country have less exposure to people outside of their own little tribe. Hopefully this continues to change as internet becomes more omnipresent.
The only challenge you describe is your own bigotry. Your stories do not match the experience of any immigrants I know, including my wife. I can’t imagine where in the US you would find “rural people” who have never seen a non-Caucasian. African-Americans and Mexicans have been in this country as long as white people.
One-year-old children don’t form meaningful sentences, not even in rural America where families eat at Arby’s and holler out slurs at the TV.
You can find bigots and racist people everywhere in the world, including among immigrants to America.
One-year-old children don’t form meaningful sentences, not even in rural America where families eat at Arby’s and holler out slurs at the TV.
You can find bigots and racist people everywhere in the world, including among immigrants to America.
I did an internship in a largely white rural town (e.g. ~0.5% black). One of the other interns who was black confided in me that he was uncomfortable walking around town and grocery shopping, since he was stared at constantly.
Depends on the colour of your skin.