The Dangerous Push to Give Boosters to Teens(wsj.com)
wsj.com
The Dangerous Push to Give Boosters to Teens
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters-to-teens-vacccine-covid-19-omicron-vaxx-requirement-mandate-11640107759
29 comments
Any more details available on why the vaccines are risky? If FDA is saying this, it really makes you wonder.
Offit's not the FDA, he's on the advisory committee that was ignored (the same one as in the article). The mRNA vaccines cause heart inflammation in some cases that is probably more risk than COVID-19 in a young healthy person already fully vaccinated with two doses. The FDA and CDC might disagree about that, but not calling VRBPAC and the ACIP back to look at data you might have to back that up looks quite suspicious. He goes on a bit of a rant about being ignored (twice apparently? Not sure the exact details.) at 25:20.
I am not sure from where he is getting this vaccines produce more hearth issues than COVID-19. Pfizer vaccines for sure do not and Moderna vaccine is not approved in US for 16-17 year olds. Sound like a complete anti-vax nutjob to me regardless that he claims to be not one (how surprising).
Are you saying Offit is the nutjob, or the author of the article? Because I don't think Offit is, see [0]. As for the author, I don't know. To be clear, Offit is talking about the third dose, not the first two, he thinks you should get those. See, if the first two doses pretty much get rid of the risk of severe disease, why would you risk myocarditis from a third dose? See [1] for his reasoning, but if you don't trust Epoch, you can watch the TWiV episode above, where there's no edits or time pressure, and he can respond to all comments by the hosts.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Offit [1]: https://archive.md/zw3il#selection-1375.0-1379.115
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Offit [1]: https://archive.md/zw3il#selection-1375.0-1379.115
Sorry, the author. Offit does not claim that vaccine is causing more hearth issues than COVID-19 but the author is.
There was an autopsy of someone that got vaccinated and they found the spike protein in every organ. So if the immune system attacks them at one point, inflammation can always be the result. It doesn't have to be the case, but there certainly is a risk.
Given the low risk to young people (at least the data pretty clearly states this), I think it is irresponsible to get them vaccinated. Older people should get 15 boosters, maybe even for the rest of their lives or until better protections are available.
Given the low risk to young people (at least the data pretty clearly states this), I think it is irresponsible to get them vaccinated. Older people should get 15 boosters, maybe even for the rest of their lives or until better protections are available.
The charlatan also “predicted” we would achieve herd immunity in April 2020.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have-herd-immunity-by-apri...
His Twitter feed is a cesspool of motivated reasoning.
Lazy people posting crap like this to HN is what is bringing down the quality of this site.
His Twitter feed is a cesspool of motivated reasoning.
Lazy people posting crap like this to HN is what is bringing down the quality of this site.
FTA
>> The U.S. government is pushing Covid-19 vaccine boosters for 16- and 17-year-olds without supporting clinical data. A large Israeli population study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine earlier this month, found that the risk of Covid death in people under 30 with two vaccine shots was zero.
There are many reasons to get a vaccine other than risk of death. For instance, lessening the severity of symptoms. The vaccines themselves are very safe.
> The vaccines themselves are very safe.
Most drug development takes from initial research to FDA approval about 10 years[1]. Even with Priority Review, Breakthrough Therapy, Accelerated Approval, or Fast Track programs, the time is in several years.
I do not believe you have the scientific evidence to make your statement with great assurance.
[1]https://www.hiv.va.gov/patient/clinical-trials/drug-approval...
Most drug development takes from initial research to FDA approval about 10 years[1]. Even with Priority Review, Breakthrough Therapy, Accelerated Approval, or Fast Track programs, the time is in several years.
I do not believe you have the scientific evidence to make your statement with great assurance.
[1]https://www.hiv.va.gov/patient/clinical-trials/drug-approval...
Sure, lets wait till highly infectious new disease has infected everyone because we clearly have plenty of data about its long term effects. /s
If you can point out where did they cut short with the vaccine approval, please point it out.
One thing is clear - they did not wait till planned AE period was completed but we do have now even more data about AE than we have for any other vaccine so far.
I think that the opposite is true - the vaccines have not been deployed fast enough around the world and this has allowed new more infectious variants to emerge.
If you can point out where did they cut short with the vaccine approval, please point it out.
One thing is clear - they did not wait till planned AE period was completed but we do have now even more data about AE than we have for any other vaccine so far.
I think that the opposite is true - the vaccines have not been deployed fast enough around the world and this has allowed new more infectious variants to emerge.
>I think that the opposite is true - the vaccines have not been deployed fast enough around the world and this has allowed new more infectious variants to emerge.
Or, the incredibly narrow focus of the mRNA vaccines put enormous evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate.
All too often you hear the misconception that only the unvaccinated can act like a petrie dish for mutations, but this can happen just as easily in anyone vaccinated.
Or, the incredibly narrow focus of the mRNA vaccines put enormous evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate.
All too often you hear the misconception that only the unvaccinated can act like a petrie dish for mutations, but this can happen just as easily in anyone vaccinated.
Now how many people where there vaccinated with mRNA vaccines in South-Africa?
I propose that if there would have been more, we would possibly not have this variant. We do not see new variants popping up in highly vaccinated areas.
I propose that if there would have been more, we would possibly not have this variant. We do not see new variants popping up in highly vaccinated areas.
Exactly, there is no study on the long term effects of these vaccines because they are so new.
The good news is we have one in the process in the US with about 300 million people.
The good news is we have one in the process in the US with about 300 million people.
Also, protecting those around you. It's very much in a teen's own self interest to not bring COVID home and put their parents (who support them) at risk.
Disclaimer: Double vaxxed here w/ kids in the process.
Too bad that doesn't seem to actually work out that way. People that are vaccinated still get sick enough to spread the virus it seems, especially w/ Omicron, even if they either don't have enough symptoms to notice it might be Covid or don't get sick enough to require hospitalization.
That is not to say vaccination isn't necessarily a good idea but it's not a no brainer either because it only has upsides. Unfortunately it also seems that there's no good way to talk about any of this. If you look and talk about the facts, it seems like the anti-vaxxer will hate you and you will simultaneously be stamped an anti-vaxxer by everyone else. Sad days but I guess that's what social pressures do.
Too bad that doesn't seem to actually work out that way. People that are vaccinated still get sick enough to spread the virus it seems, especially w/ Omicron, even if they either don't have enough symptoms to notice it might be Covid or don't get sick enough to require hospitalization.
That is not to say vaccination isn't necessarily a good idea but it's not a no brainer either because it only has upsides. Unfortunately it also seems that there's no good way to talk about any of this. If you look and talk about the facts, it seems like the anti-vaxxer will hate you and you will simultaneously be stamped an anti-vaxxer by everyone else. Sad days but I guess that's what social pressures do.
I know only one vaccine that might have 100% efficacy after 4 shots. It is polio vaccine.
COVID-19 has been so far a scourge - when we get enough people vaccinated in developed countries, another variant appears from developing countries. The vaccine deployments has been just too slow around the world.
My hope is that the developing world has seen now enough of the virus and is mainly immune or will be after Omicron has swept over (being hopefully milder than previous variants).
COVID-19 has been so far a scourge - when we get enough people vaccinated in developed countries, another variant appears from developing countries. The vaccine deployments has been just too slow around the world.
My hope is that the developing world has seen now enough of the virus and is mainly immune or will be after Omicron has swept over (being hopefully milder than previous variants).
Highly unlikely that your 100% statistic is true. Polio rages on today in Africa because of one reason: the oral polio vaccine.
Wild type polio has actually been eliminated but sixteen African nations are battling outbreaks of what's called "vaccine-derived polio."
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/25/9058847...
Wild type polio has actually been eliminated but sixteen African nations are battling outbreaks of what's called "vaccine-derived polio."
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/25/9058847...
Well, this is what CDC claims https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-dur...
Yes, I know about this mutated live vaccine. It for sure looked like a great idea on paper.
Yes, I know about this mutated live vaccine. It for sure looked like a great idea on paper.
Double vaccinated coworker caught COVID twice, and the second time he told me it was hell. It's not protecting people around you when there is a breakthrough: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...
The vaccine does not prevent transmission. You can still contract, get sick from and pass on covid-19 even being triple vaxxed. Unless you're talking about you having a reduction in symptoms == less probability of spread. That's frequently claimed but lacks proof. If you've found any science on that, please post it. I haven't.
He claims that he is not an anti-vaxxer but for sure sounds like one. Can somebody please point me out how Pfizer vaccine is causing more hearth AE in young people than COVID-19 does?
That depends on how you define anti-vaxxer. If you use webster's month old definition https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer
"a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination"
Then a whole lot of supposedly "reasonable" people (including myself) are anti-vaxxers. If however, you use the traditional definition, then the author is against boosters for under 18 year olds, but pro vaccines for all and boosters for 18+. That would make him a pro-vaxxer
For me a clear separation is spreading false information about vaccine effectiveness and safety.
I could not see how any US approve COVID-19 vaccine for 16-17 year old is causing more hearth issues than COVID-19 does - quite opposite appears to be true based on the referenced Oxford study. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the study?
I could not see how any US approve COVID-19 vaccine for 16-17 year old is causing more hearth issues than COVID-19 does - quite opposite appears to be true based on the referenced Oxford study. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the study?
In order to determine that you have to determine
1: How much harm the vaccine is causing 16-17 yo
2: How much harm the virus is causing 16-17 yo
Regarding 1, we know that mRNA vaccines can cause heart inflammation. As for, how much for 16-17 yo, I don't know if that has been tested. Regarding 2, I am unaware of a test that has been preformed on 16-17 yo. But the test on under 11 yo was unsuccessful, because even those getting the placebo did not develop serious symptoms of the virus.
If you believe that the burden of proof should be on whoever wants someone to take the vaccine, then they would have to preform a trial that determines 1 and 2. Until that is done, the philosophical default is not to claim that boosters should be given to 17-18 yo.
Regarding 1, we know that mRNA vaccines can cause heart inflammation. As for, how much for 16-17 yo, I don't know if that has been tested. Regarding 2, I am unaware of a test that has been preformed on 16-17 yo. But the test on under 11 yo was unsuccessful, because even those getting the placebo did not develop serious symptoms of the virus.
If you believe that the burden of proof should be on whoever wants someone to take the vaccine, then they would have to preform a trial that determines 1 and 2. Until that is done, the philosophical default is not to claim that boosters should be given to 17-18 yo.
This has been already determined and result is - virus causes more arm than vaccination. As for boosters - US is not Israel that could vaccinate all their 16-17 in one week if they see that virus has started to cause a lot harm. It would be great success when US could vaccinate half of them in few months.
We know already well how the virus is acting on under 11 olds and we do not need statistics to tell us that. If the vaccine can prevent symptomatic illness, it can also prevent serious illness. Simple as that.
We know already well how the virus is acting on under 11 olds and we do not need statistics to tell us that. If the vaccine can prevent symptomatic illness, it can also prevent serious illness. Simple as that.
I think some people's definition of an "anti-vaxer" is getting too enlarged. If Paul Offit (member of VRBPAC, and the author of a book titled "Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All"), the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP, the advisory group to the CDC), the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC, the advisory group for the FDA) are all anti-vaxers because they share similar views to the author, there might be a problem.
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkhN4rC19RI