Giant Pyrosome(oceana.org)
oceana.org
Giant Pyrosome
https://oceana.org/marine-life/giant-pyrosome/
41 comments
It freaks me out that tunicates are chordates. How can a creature's body plan get that bizarre, from a starting point similar to vertebrates? They're not just dissimilar to familiar animals, they're barely recognizable as animals.
Tunicates evolved long before animals that you would recognize as typical vertebrates. In their free-swimming larval state, tunicates do have a "notochord", or nerve chord, running along their head-tail axis. This structure is a kind of proto-spine. The evolution of true vertebrates proceeded from this condition by neoteny, the retention of larval traits in the adult body plan. Pyrosomes look so bizarre compared to a layman's notion of what a chordate should look like because they are colonial aggregations of lots of individual adult tunicates that have resorbed their notochords (I'm pretty sure that's the case, despite what the photo description says).
> The evolution of true vertebrates proceeded from this condition by neoteny
Thanks for the explanation! Slightly less freaked out now.
Thanks for the explanation! Slightly less freaked out now.
Freaks me out this article says over and over [...] large enough for a person to enter.
I'm not going in there. That's scary.
I'm not going in there. That's scary.
The origin of vertebrates is still a great mystery, although much has been learned.
https://www.amazon.com/Across-Bridge-Understanding-Origin-Ve...
https://www.amazon.com/Across-Bridge-Understanding-Origin-Ve...
With moving pictures it's better, just found that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qis_rfb7fnU
How do these pyrosomes break fishing nets, without muscles or teeth?
The article mentions that unless all of the individual organisms die at the same time it is theoretically possible for the colony to live forever. I wonder if we have any way of telling how old a particular colony could possibly be?
Blob of Theseus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
> I wonder if we have any way of telling how old a particular colony could possibly be?
Maybe sequencing DNA from a lot of the individual organisms and counting how many differences there are? Older colonies should accumulate the differences, right?
Maybe sequencing DNA from a lot of the individual organisms and counting how many differences there are? Older colonies should accumulate the differences, right?
Differences relative to what? A young and old colony are still the same evolutionary distance from their last common ancestor. Even if there was some change in mutation rate once a colony is formed, it would be really hard to measure the difference. Maybe diversity within a colony is a clue?
Differences between each other? IIUC the colony forms from a few individuals cloning itself over and over?
If that's the case then old colony would have more differences between the individuals than a new colony.
If that's the case then old colony would have more differences between the individuals than a new colony.
Radiocarbon dating of samples, maybe?
Radiocarbon dating only works for dead stuff:
> When the animal or plant dies, it stops exchanging carbon with its environment, and thereafter the amount of 14C it contains begins to decrease as the 14C undergoes radioactive decay. Measuring the amount of 14C in a sample from a dead plant or animal, such as a piece of wood or a fragment of bone, provides information that can be used to calculate when the animal or plant died.
> When the animal or plant dies, it stops exchanging carbon with its environment, and thereafter the amount of 14C it contains begins to decrease as the 14C undergoes radioactive decay. Measuring the amount of 14C in a sample from a dead plant or animal, such as a piece of wood or a fragment of bone, provides information that can be used to calculate when the animal or plant died.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.
Some more photos here:
https://archive.is/dQQ70
Original:
http://www.divebums.com/FishID/Pages/pyrosoma_big.html
https://archive.is/dQQ70
Original:
http://www.divebums.com/FishID/Pages/pyrosoma_big.html
Are there any photos of it taken on land / on the beach?
Once a year we get hundreds of thousands of pyrosomes in our waters. The first time we saw them I spent the whole trip out of the water researching what they might be
FWIW they ended up seeming harmless, my "neighbors" were swimming with them
FWIW they ended up seeming harmless, my "neighbors" were swimming with them
Where is this?
I found this, looking for more pictures of the critters: https://www.insider.com/pyrosome-sea-creature-bloom-worries-... apparently, there was a 'bloom' of them in the pacific northwest in 2017
"long and wide enough for a person to enter" -- has anyone seen it and thought, "Hmm, let me go inside, what could go wrong. I don't see fangs."
It reminds me of a particularly fantastic piece of lore from Skyrim. It's remarkable to come across in real life something similar to what stretched my suspension of disbelief in a fictional setting.
"The Underground Express was a method of transportation employed by the native Argonians in Black Marsh. It involved travelers submerging themselves into a Rootworm's stomach through their breathing holes. The travelers could then leave the Underground Express via the breathing holes as well. The travelers would then travel inside a Rootworm's stomach during their migrations. Notable exits and entrances to the Underground Express during the winter could be found at Gideon and Hixinoag."
- The Argonian Account, Book III
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Underground_Express
"The Underground Express was a method of transportation employed by the native Argonians in Black Marsh. It involved travelers submerging themselves into a Rootworm's stomach through their breathing holes. The travelers could then leave the Underground Express via the breathing holes as well. The travelers would then travel inside a Rootworm's stomach during their migrations. Notable exits and entrances to the Underground Express during the winter could be found at Gideon and Hixinoag."
- The Argonian Account, Book III
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Underground_Express
Just looking at the picture that had that caption: NOPE
This thing looks far too much like a digestive tract for me to ever consider going inside it willingly. I suppose after direct observation for a while I might be more comfortable with the creature but I feel like I'd never get past that initial feeling...
We could send a small remote controlled submersible vessel through it. Get some lights in there and see it from the inside out.
“Could theoretically live forever” implies perfect DNA cloning right? Seems worth studying for anti-cancer or anti-aging purposes.
That is definitely an interesting application for cancer.
As far as aging though, I would take it with a grain of salt. Strangely, aging doesn't seem to be caused by accumulated DNA copying errors.
Otherwise, each generation of humans would be genetically worse off than the previous generation.
The quote below came to mind.
"Imagine how many times DNA has been reproduced, not just during your lifetime in your own body but since human life began! To understand how amazing this is, consider what would happen if you used a photocopier to copy a document and then used the new copy to make the next copy. If you did this repeatedly, the quality of the copies would deteriorate and eventually become unreadable. Happily, the quality of our DNA does not deteriorate or wear out when our cells repeatedly divide. Why? Because our cells have many ways of repairing DNA copy errors. If that were not true, mankind would long ago have become a pile of dust" - Source: https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200605/Why-Do-We-Gr...
As far as aging though, I would take it with a grain of salt. Strangely, aging doesn't seem to be caused by accumulated DNA copying errors.
Otherwise, each generation of humans would be genetically worse off than the previous generation.
The quote below came to mind.
"Imagine how many times DNA has been reproduced, not just during your lifetime in your own body but since human life began! To understand how amazing this is, consider what would happen if you used a photocopier to copy a document and then used the new copy to make the next copy. If you did this repeatedly, the quality of the copies would deteriorate and eventually become unreadable. Happily, the quality of our DNA does not deteriorate or wear out when our cells repeatedly divide. Why? Because our cells have many ways of repairing DNA copy errors. If that were not true, mankind would long ago have become a pile of dust" - Source: https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200605/Why-Do-We-Gr...
I think that's because it's many organisms coming together to create the one pyrosome
Sea squirts are some of the weirdest things in the ocean. Another video: https://youtu.be/5EQGA_4BZ5s?t=9
Instantly made me think of the Water Tentacle in The Abyss...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO7Vyhy0iXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO7Vyhy0iXs
What's stopping a bank of fish, or a whale from eating the whole thing?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27213-zoologger-hollo...
This article has a picture of a sea turtle taking a nice chomp out of a smaller one. Maybe nothing that eats them ever feels like eating the whole the colony. It would seem it's pretty tough to tear it.
This article has a picture of a sea turtle taking a nice chomp out of a smaller one. Maybe nothing that eats them ever feels like eating the whole the colony. It would seem it's pretty tough to tear it.
Is a Dermochelys, very big and specialized turtles with powerful jaws.
Chordates are known for their chemistry weapons. The bioluminiscence warning must be there for some reason.
Likely the appearance of the colony being a single, gigantic, thing.
"The Giant Pyrosome is a free-floating, colonial tunicate that is made of thousands of identical clones, together forming a hollow cylindrical structure that can be 60 feet (18 m) long and wide enough for a person to enter."
Nope.
Nope.
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
It's particularly important not to do that when the thread is fresh, because threads are so responsive to initial conditions.
It's particularly important not to do that when the thread is fresh, because threads are so responsive to initial conditions.