Ask HN: Good private email host with IMAP?
62 comments
Fastmail is the best I've used.
If EU jurisdiction is important to you, Runbox* and Mailfence are pretty ok - their service isn't as well-documented nor polished/reliable as Fastmail (e.g. I've hit some odd errors fetching large amounts of messages over IMAP - e.g. connecting a new client and blind first big sync of mail on an account with a large archive) but overall they're both extremely serviceable.
Re: mail interfaces, Runbox's is a little better than Mailfence, but both are a little dated. Again, Fastmail is better here; non-EU is their only fault imo.
* Runbox is technically not actually EU, per se, being Norwegian.
If EU jurisdiction is important to you, Runbox* and Mailfence are pretty ok - their service isn't as well-documented nor polished/reliable as Fastmail (e.g. I've hit some odd errors fetching large amounts of messages over IMAP - e.g. connecting a new client and blind first big sync of mail on an account with a large archive) but overall they're both extremely serviceable.
Re: mail interfaces, Runbox's is a little better than Mailfence, but both are a little dated. Again, Fastmail is better here; non-EU is their only fault imo.
* Runbox is technically not actually EU, per se, being Norwegian.
I tried a few but eventually decided to run my own (for incoming).
Fastmail was the best. They have IMAP integrated with contacts and calendaring. Sieve filtering and good webui. The main reason I left them is that they were rejecting (not just spam-folder) important mail, even if I whitelisted the domain by adding a contact. I contacted support and it took them forever to get back and when they finally did they basically said "nope, we will reject those, you are wrong about what spam is". It didn't leave a good taste in my mouth.
Migadu was pretty good but I had trouble getting my catchall accounts working how I wanted too.
MXroute was very opinionated and I didn't agree with all of their opinions. They pretty readily block large blocks of IPs or senders so you will miss mail. They also don't believe in Bayesian spam filtering and it shows as a lot of spam ends up in your inbox. So not only was I missing mail I wanted I was getting a lot of mail I didn't. They also have 5 webmails that aren't well integrated as well as 2 address books and 2 calendars. They seem to really like trying new things but miss out on integration such as using my address book for spam filtering. On the upside the support was fast and direct. I appreciate the clarity of the responses. I think there are some people who would love this provider but their choices don't work well for me.
While I can't recommend it I ended up managing my own incoming mail. Spam was surprisingly barely an issue. RSpamd with default settings is working excellently. Basically I dumped my spam folder (1 month) and archive (many years) into the spam learning and it has been doing an excellent job. The flexibility of running your own mail-server is also nice because I can do things like signed addresses for giving out different emails to different companies.
Fastmail was the best. They have IMAP integrated with contacts and calendaring. Sieve filtering and good webui. The main reason I left them is that they were rejecting (not just spam-folder) important mail, even if I whitelisted the domain by adding a contact. I contacted support and it took them forever to get back and when they finally did they basically said "nope, we will reject those, you are wrong about what spam is". It didn't leave a good taste in my mouth.
Migadu was pretty good but I had trouble getting my catchall accounts working how I wanted too.
MXroute was very opinionated and I didn't agree with all of their opinions. They pretty readily block large blocks of IPs or senders so you will miss mail. They also don't believe in Bayesian spam filtering and it shows as a lot of spam ends up in your inbox. So not only was I missing mail I wanted I was getting a lot of mail I didn't. They also have 5 webmails that aren't well integrated as well as 2 address books and 2 calendars. They seem to really like trying new things but miss out on integration such as using my address book for spam filtering. On the upside the support was fast and direct. I appreciate the clarity of the responses. I think there are some people who would love this provider but their choices don't work well for me.
While I can't recommend it I ended up managing my own incoming mail. Spam was surprisingly barely an issue. RSpamd with default settings is working excellently. Basically I dumped my spam folder (1 month) and archive (many years) into the spam learning and it has been doing an excellent job. The flexibility of running your own mail-server is also nice because I can do things like signed addresses for giving out different emails to different companies.
I've been quite happy with MXroute. I've only once had an IP blocking problem with them, with a friend who hosts using Migadu. It was cleared up in under a day.
"Opinionated" is a very good word for them, though. I think Jarland Donnell is legitimately passionate about running a good email services, and has strong opinions about what that means. In my experience, it's meant something no-nonsense, with good technical transparency, that delivers exactly what it promises and nothing more. Perfect for my needs.
"Opinionated" is a very good word for them, though. I think Jarland Donnell is legitimately passionate about running a good email services, and has strong opinions about what that means. In my experience, it's meant something no-nonsense, with good technical transparency, that delivers exactly what it promises and nothing more. Perfect for my needs.
Honestly if it wasn't for the spam filtering I may we'll have stayed with them. I did configure Thunderbird's spam filtering and it did bridge the gap quite well but it wasn't ideal to have to sit it up and train it on multiple machines and then have less filtering on mobile when my computer was off. It also had some poor interactions such as setting the unread count for my spamd folder which I find very annoying because the message was moved there.
> I contacted support and it took them forever to get back and when they finally did they basically said "nope, we will reject those, you are wrong about what spam is". It didn't leave a good taste in my mouth.
This is worrisome; are you able to share any more information as to the nature of what was being rejected?
This is worrisome; are you able to share any more information as to the nature of what was being rejected?
I don't recall the exact details but it was something like reverse DNS not being set properly combined with some other spam scores. While this is a best practice it definitely isn't followed by everyone I want to receive mail from.
Not judging on the mails itself, but actually rejecting is the right way. Spam folders tend to get ignored, if one doesn't know he misses an email, he won't look there. When a mail gets rejected, the sender is noticed, so he can take measures to ensure the recipient gets the info.
In practice roughly 0% of senders will react, except for maybe add you to a blacklist of bouncing addresses. If it is in my spam folder at least I can find it if I know I should have it.
I've wondered if it would be useful to reject + store in spam. This way I have a copy and the sender can know that I likely won't see it.
I've wondered if it would be useful to reject + store in spam. This way I have a copy and the sender can know that I likely won't see it.
I always thought rejecting spam was bad because it gives information to the spammer. So I have always routed it to a crap folder. Good mail almost never goes there. Unfortunately I made some mistakes with wildcard addresses long ago that I'm still somewhat saddled with.
In practice I'm using Fastmail for everything, but in theory self-hosting an IMAP server should be pretty easy. The main usefulness of hosted email services is deliverability for outgoing SMTP, with inbound spam filtering in 2nd place. So if you can separate those functions, you can do all your mail storage on your own IMAP server without suffering from much headache. I haven't tried to actually do this though.
In practice I'm using Fastmail for everything, but in theory self-hosting an IMAP server should be pretty easy. The main usefulness of hosted email services is deliverability for outgoing SMTP, with inbound spam filtering in 2nd place. So if you can separate those functions, you can do all your mail storage on your own IMAP server without suffering from much headache. I haven't tried to actually do this though.
I too run my own, but for ingoing and outgoing. I did my due diligence and selected a host with good IP reputation, warmed up the domain and IP manually, and have good deliverability to Gmail and outlook and other big players as far as I can tell.
Happy to test with anyone from hn. Email address is in my HN profile.
Happy to test with anyone from hn. Email address is in my HN profile.
What programs are you using to manage your incoming mail server (other than RSpamd)? How many hours did it take you to setup?
I am using postfix, rspamd, dovecot and restic for backups. I didn't track the time but it was evenings for almost a week including transfer. So maybe 15-20h? I'm hoping the maintenance now should be near-zero.
+1 for Fastmail. Very fast, very reliable since I started using it in 2016. Absolutely the best webmail client I have used. UI not too unlike Gmail. The UI is fully keyboard-controllable for almost all tasks. Great search. Great calendar. Good amount of settings & security control for power users. Android app works well.
It pains me that I can’t customize the keyboard shortcuts on Fastmail web client, It made me not switch.
Their mobile app seemed fairly kludgey as well. Certain gestures didn’t really work the way that you would think because they implemented some custom way of handling it which just made the user experience worse.
Their mobile app seemed fairly kludgey as well. Certain gestures didn’t really work the way that you would think because they implemented some custom way of handling it which just made the user experience worse.
Migadu is in Switzerland, I've been a customer for a few years and had pretty much no issues (The only one I remember was a delivery issue I had once), they support IMAP/SMTP/POP and although their Web isn't the most modern out there it looks OK for 2022
Seconding Migadu, support is also very quick and pleasant.
After seeing Gmail harvest my messages for ads, I started hosting my own email server. It was fun for a time, but got awful tedious, so I switched to Fastmail. They’ve been great. Haven’t looked back.
How did you discover that?
It was pretty obvious based on the ads I was seeing while looking at my mail.
They allegedly stopped doing this in 2017: https://variety.com/2017/digital/news/google-gmail-ads-email...
They allegedly stopped doing this in 2017: https://variety.com/2017/digital/news/google-gmail-ads-email...
Ouch. That is indeed horrible.
Thank you for link - I didn't know.
I recently switched to Runbox and so far so good. Before switching I tried out the following
1. Fastmail: tried and stopped using because of Australian law that is relatively more hostile to privacy and is more expensive that Runbox when adjusted to features (e.g. alias count limit for personal domains)
2. Mailbox.org: Tried and stopped using because firstly they made a payment routing mistake when I upgraded to a paid account during the trial and blocked sending of emails. Took a few days to get it cleared. Also, there are important features you can't try on a free trial like sensing emails to non-mailbox.org domains, configuring your own domains, etc. They quote alleviating spam account risk but it doesn't feel right when runbox allows you to try these features for free before signing up. Also, mailbox.org forces cloud drive, video calls, etc on you. I don't need that crap. Just need a solid mail service. If you want encryption, you have to upload/let them generate the private key for you. While this is technically necessary to encrypt your mail box using pgp, I don't think this is a good idea. I think entrusting the key and the lock to the same people defeats the purpose of encryption.
3. Posteo: doesn't allow personal domains. This is a deal breaker for me.
4. Soverin: I ran into some issue with Soverin. Can't remember what that was. I really wanted to use them otherwise since they seem like a small team and I like supporting small businesses.
Finally I settled for runbox because they show a decent level of commitment to privacy, cheaper for the set of features they offer (unlimited aliases on your own domain, catch all, etc), let you try all their features on free account which I think is a very good sales posture, there's a fantastic deal right now that gives you a two year subscription for the price of one.
I do not have any affiliation with runbox btw. I highly recommend using your own domain in case you need to lift and shift at some point, use pgp keys for privacy whenever possible and take a principled stand against bullshit laws like those in Australia if you care about privacy. Overall, right now, runbox will give you the best set of features and comparable privacy guarantees to their competitors for a better price.
1. Fastmail: tried and stopped using because of Australian law that is relatively more hostile to privacy and is more expensive that Runbox when adjusted to features (e.g. alias count limit for personal domains)
2. Mailbox.org: Tried and stopped using because firstly they made a payment routing mistake when I upgraded to a paid account during the trial and blocked sending of emails. Took a few days to get it cleared. Also, there are important features you can't try on a free trial like sensing emails to non-mailbox.org domains, configuring your own domains, etc. They quote alleviating spam account risk but it doesn't feel right when runbox allows you to try these features for free before signing up. Also, mailbox.org forces cloud drive, video calls, etc on you. I don't need that crap. Just need a solid mail service. If you want encryption, you have to upload/let them generate the private key for you. While this is technically necessary to encrypt your mail box using pgp, I don't think this is a good idea. I think entrusting the key and the lock to the same people defeats the purpose of encryption.
3. Posteo: doesn't allow personal domains. This is a deal breaker for me.
4. Soverin: I ran into some issue with Soverin. Can't remember what that was. I really wanted to use them otherwise since they seem like a small team and I like supporting small businesses.
Finally I settled for runbox because they show a decent level of commitment to privacy, cheaper for the set of features they offer (unlimited aliases on your own domain, catch all, etc), let you try all their features on free account which I think is a very good sales posture, there's a fantastic deal right now that gives you a two year subscription for the price of one.
I do not have any affiliation with runbox btw. I highly recommend using your own domain in case you need to lift and shift at some point, use pgp keys for privacy whenever possible and take a principled stand against bullshit laws like those in Australia if you care about privacy. Overall, right now, runbox will give you the best set of features and comparable privacy guarantees to their competitors for a better price.
> Also, mailbox.org forces cloud drive, video calls, etc on you. I don't need that crap.
Huh? I've been a mailbox.org user for years now and didn't even know that they have a cloud drive and video calls. How are they forcing it on you?
Huh? I've been a mailbox.org user for years now and didn't even know that they have a cloud drive and video calls. How are they forcing it on you?
Not sure how it was when your first signed up, but right now these extra stuff comes with the paid subscription. You can't buy just the email service and you can't use even the basic features like emailing an external domain on a free mailbox.org account. Their Web interface has all these features so I'm not sure how you'd miss them...
> tried and stopped using because of Australian law that is relatively more hostile to privacy
I see this kind of thing all the time. I could understand if you emailed a lot of stuff to yourself, but privacy is ultimately going to be determined by both email providers. It seems in this case that email is being used as a substitute for secure file sharing and secure chat.
I see this kind of thing all the time. I could understand if you emailed a lot of stuff to yourself, but privacy is ultimately going to be determined by both email providers. It seems in this case that email is being used as a substitute for secure file sharing and secure chat.
Yes, I agree with you. It's more of a matter of principles because otherwise there's no point to using a paid, private email service at all since most of the market share is with Gmail and outlook free emails and most people don't use PGP. But I don't think that should be a reason for governments to pass bills that are hostile to privacy while adding nothing to national security compared to similar laws in, say Europe.
+1 for Runbox. I’ve been a client for over ten years, no problems.
I haven't actually used it, but as a long-time self-hoster I do keep an eye out for some place to migrate should something happen, and the one I've eyed is https://mailcheap.co.
I haven't found any meaningful negative reviews online and they are by far the lowest price. They primarily use OVH I think in France, it's stated somewhere on their site.
I haven't found any meaningful negative reviews online and they are by far the lowest price. They primarily use OVH I think in France, it's stated somewhere on their site.
Does anyone have experience with mailcheap.co? I also have an eye on it - mailcheap.co, migadu, and mxroute let you use the dovecot superuser (I.e. dsync to backup/replicate etc)
Fastmail is good. Their web calendar is also great, and can sync with google calendar if you want it to.
Bonus feature: Fastmail Notes can sync into iOS Notes app.
Bonus feature: Fastmail Notes can sync into iOS Notes app.
I've been using https://migadu.com for some time and it works fine (also underwent a Gmail->Migadu migration using imapsync).
mailbox.org is German. They allow you to register and pay without contact details (although a full criminal investigation could proably easily trace back the payment).
I have not used them except for some occasional testing, but the engineering made a solid impression.
I have not used them except for some occasional testing, but the engineering made a solid impression.
I am using mailbox.org and they are very good at what they do. The company behind them do mailserver stuff for 20+ years.
BUT their UI is from the 90s which rules them out by the requirements. It‘s not a bummer for me as I never use the Web UI.
BUT their UI is from the 90s which rules them out by the requirements. It‘s not a bummer for me as I never use the Web UI.
I've been a mailbox.org customer for a few years and have found them to be very reliable and reasonable. The pricing is also great and they allow the use of one's own domain. My only criticism is their 2fa implementation.
I'm happy customer of posteo.de for years now. They don't want to have data they don't absolutely need (e.g., you can pay cash envelope), they're very transparent on what they do with the data they need to have, gov requests etc., they have optional full encryption built in…
and it's only €1/month :)
They would be my first choice, but the fact that they have their home page in so few languages (English, German and French) makes me rule it out. I don't want to share my address and then have to answer the same question over and over as to why am I using some weird foreign email provider.
For me, that's a huge plus for Tutanota/Proton but Tutanota doesn't support IMAP and Proton is too expensive (I don't care about its other features, the only thing I need is IMAP).
For me, that's a huge plus for Tutanota/Proton but Tutanota doesn't support IMAP and Proton is too expensive (I don't care about its other features, the only thing I need is IMAP).
I've been using the free mailboxes Gandi gives you with a domain for years. It's been solid and both UI options (SoGo and Roundcube) are decent
I use https://runbox.com/ based in Norway
I have been using https://soverin.net. It has a privacy-first approach to email, while at the same time they are transparent in regards to its operation. They operate and are based in the Netherlands.
I use mailbox.org and have no issues with it. I don't think the web interface looks amazing but I only use it with IMAP clients so it's not an issue for me. You can get a free trial account which is quite limited in functionality but will show you the web UI at least, so you can make your own decision.
I have also used soverin.net and broadly found it was fine, but ran into a couple of issues like difficulties managing spam settings, poor documentation on website etc. Worth noting that soverin.net also requires a phone number to sign up, which some people dislike on privacy grounds (may or may not be a deal-breaker for you).
I have also used soverin.net and broadly found it was fine, but ran into a couple of issues like difficulties managing spam settings, poor documentation on website etc. Worth noting that soverin.net also requires a phone number to sign up, which some people dislike on privacy grounds (may or may not be a deal-breaker for you).
I've been happy with pair.com. I don't know what you think the 90s looked like, but they have a roundcube instance available, or you can run whatever you want on your hosting account.
ditto for pair.com -- reasonable prices, good service, no weird behaviors, been in business a long time and seem likely to continue.
https://purelymail.com/ has no hard limits and roundcube (a modern looking webmail) but is a smaller operation.
Fastmail is decent. It's not perfect but it works. Very good integration with Google to retrieve legacy mail/calendar/contacts. Can even send mail through your Gmail account.
> That sadly immediately rules out Protonmail.
I think you could run the ProtonMail Bridge on a personal server. It wasn't intended for that, so IDK how secure it is for exposing on the open internet.
Protonmail is soooo good, so I'd hate to rule it out, and I'd like a solution too. And it makes sense why they don't support IMAP directly, because the protocol doesn't support it, because the emails are all encrypted on their server, and IMAP doesn't support end to end encryption (to my knowledge)
I think you could run the ProtonMail Bridge on a personal server. It wasn't intended for that, so IDK how secure it is for exposing on the open internet.
Protonmail is soooo good, so I'd hate to rule it out, and I'd like a solution too. And it makes sense why they don't support IMAP directly, because the protocol doesn't support it, because the emails are all encrypted on their server, and IMAP doesn't support end to end encryption (to my knowledge)
Protonmail is awesome. Even though I have been a paid customer for years, mostly to support them, I only recently started to actually use the products and they are really good and I love the focus on privacy.
What’s the difference between Gmail and Fastmail services?
The governments from both sides mine email data aggressively. Wether the companies also do it, and to what extent, there is no way to tell (Fastmail says it doesn’t, unlike Google, but we can’t verify).
As for differences, Gmail security is unrivaled AFAIK, and Gmail is free.
The governments from both sides mine email data aggressively. Wether the companies also do it, and to what extent, there is no way to tell (Fastmail says it doesn’t, unlike Google, but we can’t verify).
As for differences, Gmail security is unrivaled AFAIK, and Gmail is free.
Seeing all the praise for Fastmail, I just switched today from my previous Google Workspace. Import process was seamless, things are running smooth. Interface is rather snappy. Just had to reconfigure my IMAP/SMTP settings and generate app passwords where necessary. Happy new customer, for the time being.
I've been using Mailfence since it's built in to Thunderbird and seem trustworhy. Even their support team communicated only via PGP, which is sadly a fun and novel experience in 2022. I think you have to pay for IMAP/POP/etc support though.
infomaniak is very cheap and based in Switzerland, has a modern UI and supports IMAP
mailinabox and the VPS of your chosing
Fastmail... Decent option, good support, can host static webpage and dump your file on a file store...
posteo.de or
mailbox.org
see: https://digital-hilfe.com/die-besten-und-sichersten-e-mail-a...
sorry it's in german, but you could let run a translation tool
see: https://digital-hilfe.com/die-besten-und-sichersten-e-mail-a...
sorry it's in german, but you could let run a translation tool
[deleted]
I have been using Fastmail for three years now and very happy with the product.
mailcow.de => hosted mailcow on servercow.de, a sleak UI, hosted in Germany
mailbox.org
mailbox.org (Berlin, Germany)
Posteo
Privacy does not exist.
Lots of people say privacy doesn't exist but for some reason they'll usually refuse to follow up by publishing a full dump of their email and instant messages.
Privacy might face many challenges.
But in the freer part of world the biggest challenge is users selling their privacy in exchange for so-called free services.
But in the freer part of world the biggest challenge is users selling their privacy in exchange for so-called free services.
Bonus points for EU jurisdiction, and a mail interface that doesn't look like the 90s (for my use).