Ask HN: Do you look angry while you work?
202 comments
I've gotten this feedback from those around me for years. Even before I was a coder, when I was an ESL teacher in China, I had multiple students approach me (those I had made friends with, they were all 20-somethings and over) and ask me if I was OK, because I looked angry. I appreciated their concern but I didn't feel angry, so I had no clue what they were talking about. It was only later that I learned about the concept of a "resting ___ face", and that I might possess one.
This is a huge reason why I support WFH policies and personally take advantage of them. I don't personally feel the need to "fix" myself; doing so would involve putting on an artifice in order to placate people whose impression of me is founded on incorrect assumptions. It would make me feel like I was walking on eggshells, and it would take up precious mental bandwidth which would be better spent on the work problem at hand.
WFH means management of my facial expression is one less thing I have to worry about, since people can only see my Zoom avatar at best, and usually only see the section of the laptop screen that I'm sharing. Counter to what anti-WFH advocates say, it actually makes me more likely to form close bonds with my coworkers, since they're less likely to jump to conclusions about my demeanor and personality if they aren't privy to my facial expression.
This is a huge reason why I support WFH policies and personally take advantage of them. I don't personally feel the need to "fix" myself; doing so would involve putting on an artifice in order to placate people whose impression of me is founded on incorrect assumptions. It would make me feel like I was walking on eggshells, and it would take up precious mental bandwidth which would be better spent on the work problem at hand.
WFH means management of my facial expression is one less thing I have to worry about, since people can only see my Zoom avatar at best, and usually only see the section of the laptop screen that I'm sharing. Counter to what anti-WFH advocates say, it actually makes me more likely to form close bonds with my coworkers, since they're less likely to jump to conclusions about my demeanor and personality if they aren't privy to my facial expression.
That tendency of other humans to jump to conclusions about a person's demeanor and personality based on facial expression is one of the most irritating characteristics of humans. No matter how many times we hear cliche's like "don't judge a book by its cover," people routinely (and confidently) do that all the time.
At the same time I think a lot of people walk around angry at the world and unaware of their problem. Or a lot of people are depressed and don't realize it. Or any number of issues.
A lot of times it can be all over somebody's face and body language.
Self awareness is hard. I used to take selfies to help neutrally assess my own mood. A lot of the time I was feeling something and unaware, but I could tell from the photo.
A lot of times it can be all over somebody's face and body language.
Self awareness is hard. I used to take selfies to help neutrally assess my own mood. A lot of the time I was feeling something and unaware, but I could tell from the photo.
Yes very true, it's "correct" often enough that it does start to build confidence.
I think that's what makes it so frustrating. Especially when you know the person well, facial expression can be a really good indicator. The main problem IMHO comes in when people try to read into facial expressions of people they don't know and draw wide conclusions from it. If people mainly saw strangers looking unhappy and thought, "oh wow that person must be having a bad day" it would probably be a net positive in society. But I have no idea how to convince people to think that way.
I think that's what makes it so frustrating. Especially when you know the person well, facial expression can be a really good indicator. The main problem IMHO comes in when people try to read into facial expressions of people they don't know and draw wide conclusions from it. If people mainly saw strangers looking unhappy and thought, "oh wow that person must be having a bad day" it would probably be a net positive in society. But I have no idea how to convince people to think that way.
> I used to take selfies to help neutrally assess my own mood. A lot of the time I was feeling something and unaware, but I could tell from the photo.
What were you feeling that you could only identify by your outward appearance ? You don't have to look happy and smiling all the time, in many cultures ( Germany, France ) people actively distrust people who do this.
What were you feeling that you could only identify by your outward appearance ? You don't have to look happy and smiling all the time, in many cultures ( Germany, France ) people actively distrust people who do this.
Depends on what was going on. That's a bit of a personal question.
But as I recall, one of the biggest things I would notice is if I hadn't gotten very restful sleep.
But as I recall, one of the biggest things I would notice is if I hadn't gotten very restful sleep.
or too depressed to put on a mask for you
I agree. I've also come to accept that it's part of human nature and, on an evolutionary scale, is probably a net good. "Judging a book by its cover" probably saved countless cavemen from being eaten by lions, and probably has similar effects today.
Nevertheless, your point still stands- it is indeed incredibly unfortunate, for the reasons you mentioned.
Nevertheless, your point still stands- it is indeed incredibly unfortunate, for the reasons you mentioned.
>probably saved countless cavemen from being eaten by lions
Though the laughing hyena found a way to game the system...
Though the laughing hyena found a way to game the system...
I regularly get apologised to by customer service people when I have been waiting for coffee of food. Usually something like "Sorry for the wait".
While I am waiting, I often retreat into my own thoughts, mentally processing some difficult problem or trying to plan out a project in my head. When I am thinking hard I adopt a "focus" face with a slight frown with lips pressed together.
The servers must be reading my face as annoyance or anger.
I always say thanks and smile when I collect my order so they know I wasn't unhappy, especially with them.
I guess most people are more "in the moment" and maintain a neutral or friendly face.
While I am waiting, I often retreat into my own thoughts, mentally processing some difficult problem or trying to plan out a project in my head. When I am thinking hard I adopt a "focus" face with a slight frown with lips pressed together.
The servers must be reading my face as annoyance or anger.
I always say thanks and smile when I collect my order so they know I wasn't unhappy, especially with them.
I guess most people are more "in the moment" and maintain a neutral or friendly face.
> This is a huge reason why I support WFH policies and personally take advantage of them.
I dont know if i can even work in an office anymore without scaring people. I developed a habit of cursing or mumbling under my breath. haha
I dont know if i can even work in an office anymore without scaring people. I developed a habit of cursing or mumbling under my breath. haha
I would sometimes record myself developing at my last job. Both screen and camera. It was really enlightening to see both the faces that I made throughout the day, as well as how I could have gone about debugging issues faster.
I've since improved the faces that I make, and I think it helps my mood. It's similar to the effect of how if you smile and nod while eating something gross you acquire the taste faster :)
I've since improved the faces that I make, and I think it helps my mood. It's similar to the effect of how if you smile and nod while eating something gross you acquire the taste faster :)
I did that as well. Video taping myself in meetings, and while working. Or just keeping a Zoom meeting open with only myself in it.
It's very confronting at times!
It's very confronting at times!
What have you noticed? Have you made any changes based off of it?
WFH also means interviews from home. I'm a slender person but am not obviously so in video form. I'm also not especially tall. Again, not obvious. So there are several nice equalizers about WFH that some people don't seem to consider. Anyway, I agree with you that WFH is too good to give up.
I don't think resting bitch face is about looking angry, but I understand your overall point.
What is it about if not looking angry?
looking unapproachable while having no facial expressions.
Some people just look like assholes, it doesn't imply they look angry.
Some people just look like assholes, it doesn't imply they look angry.
> Some people just look like assholes
Something I wonder about is how much of an effect movies and TV have had on what we generally consider to be mean-looking or friendly-looking traits.
I don’t know which way the cause-and-effect goes though. Do we instinctively as humans think that people who look a certain way give off an “evil” vibe, and that’s why Hollywood chooses actors with those faces? Or have they trained us that certain faces are “evil” because they’re always typecast as bad guys?
One random example: when I first saw Kylo Ren in the recent Star Wars trilogy, my first thought was… I bet he’s gonna turn good. His face is too friendly. If he were bad to the core they would’ve picked an evil-looking guy.
Something I wonder about is how much of an effect movies and TV have had on what we generally consider to be mean-looking or friendly-looking traits.
I don’t know which way the cause-and-effect goes though. Do we instinctively as humans think that people who look a certain way give off an “evil” vibe, and that’s why Hollywood chooses actors with those faces? Or have they trained us that certain faces are “evil” because they’re always typecast as bad guys?
One random example: when I first saw Kylo Ren in the recent Star Wars trilogy, my first thought was… I bet he’s gonna turn good. His face is too friendly. If he were bad to the core they would’ve picked an evil-looking guy.
Same thing with people who have a scarred face or have a British accent (for US audiences anyway). You almost always know they're going to turn out to be the bad guy.
What else could it possibly be about?
God forbid I told a female coworker to smile more. I think I would be getting a visit from HR if I did. Yet that is essentially what they are telling you to do…
My daughters are in performing sports. Cheer, gymnastics, skating, etc.
One is fantastic about having a huge smile while she does her routine.
The other goes the super focused borderline angry looking face when she focuses. We actually know she’s giving it her all when she’s giving that face.
If she’s goofing off and just having fun then she smiles.
Unfortunately judges don’t like it so much.
We’re going on 10 years of trying to get her to smile during a routine with no success.
She also can’t smile on command for photos. It’s quite cringe worthy.
The other goes the super focused borderline angry looking face when she focuses. We actually know she’s giving it her all when she’s giving that face.
If she’s goofing off and just having fun then she smiles.
Unfortunately judges don’t like it so much.
We’re going on 10 years of trying to get her to smile during a routine with no success.
She also can’t smile on command for photos. It’s quite cringe worthy.
Multiple researchers have shown that body language feeds back on how you feel.
So maybe you don't want to "fix" yourself for others, but you might consider it for yourself.
So maybe you don't want to "fix" yourself for others, but you might consider it for yourself.
I agree that you don't need to change who you are by "fixing" something.
But it is a weak argument for WFH by itself, don't you think?
But it is a weak argument for WFH by itself, don't you think?
I didn't say it was my only reason. I said "This is a huge reason...". There are quite a few others as well. I didn't list them, because they're irrelevant to the "Ask HN" question, and are therefore off-topic.
OK, yes you're right - it would indeed be off topic.
I actually recognize that line of reasoning myself. But since losing weight and working on myself (e.g. going to a therapist) I feel much better.
My point is: There was bigger issues at play for me when I didn't want to work from an office...
I actually recognize that line of reasoning myself. But since losing weight and working on myself (e.g. going to a therapist) I feel much better.
My point is: There was bigger issues at play for me when I didn't want to work from an office...
I was inspired by a friend who saved hundreds of Webcam selfies of himself at half hour intervals. The face.com API classified the majority as “sad” or “angry”.
Mentioned in my Quantified Self talk here at 1m 15s: https://vimeo.com/42239564#t=1m15s
This led to the development of LifeSlice, which lets anyone do the same, and I now have s as decade of 30-min periodic selfies. Not sure what I’ll do with them all but it’s interesting to see myself age. :)
I don’t look angry, but can confirm that I’m at best expressionless when concentrating at the computer.
http://wanderingstan.github.io/Lifeslice/
Mentioned in my Quantified Self talk here at 1m 15s: https://vimeo.com/42239564#t=1m15s
This led to the development of LifeSlice, which lets anyone do the same, and I now have s as decade of 30-min periodic selfies. Not sure what I’ll do with them all but it’s interesting to see myself age. :)
I don’t look angry, but can confirm that I’m at best expressionless when concentrating at the computer.
http://wanderingstan.github.io/Lifeslice/
My favorite part about this is that it captures pandiculation:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665102/#:~:text=Pandiculat....
And makes me wonder whether a simple computer vision algorithm could classify frequency of pandiculation in the work and we could begin making correlations between pandiculation and perception of mood valence.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665102/#:~:text=Pandiculat....
And makes me wonder whether a simple computer vision algorithm could classify frequency of pandiculation in the work and we could begin making correlations between pandiculation and perception of mood valence.
Cool, "pandiculation" was a new term for me! Had not thought about the purpose of yawning and stretching before.
For others curious, this page gave a better ELI5 definition for me: https://somaticmovementcenter.com/pandiculation-what-is-pand...
For others curious, this page gave a better ELI5 definition for me: https://somaticmovementcenter.com/pandiculation-what-is-pand...
I'll add a nitpick to this ELI5 that pandiculation also happens when you are going to sleep, so it's only a way to "wake up" our muscles in a metaphorical sense.
Text anchors only work on chrome desktop fyi. It sucks. I once spent all night making a cool lisp tutorial based on text anchors, then realized 80% of the world won’t see it since that’s the percentage of mobile traffic.
It works on Safari / Mobile Safari from 16.1 onwards (the latest version).
It works for me on Chrome Android. Not even running the latest version, so it's probably working for a while already.
Oh, finally. Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed I haven’t updated iOS in awhile.
Guess I’ll ship that lisp tutorial then.
Guess I’ll ship that lisp tutorial then.
> I once spent all night making a cool lisp tutorial based on text anchors, then realized 80% of the world won’t see it since that’s the percentage of mobile traffic.
It's just a URL anchor syntax for when there's no applicable id attribute, you could recognize the syntax in Javascript and implement a "polyfill" on-page.
It's just a URL anchor syntax for when there's no applicable id attribute, you could recognize the syntax in Javascript and implement a "polyfill" on-page.
It works for me on mobile Safari.
hmm, I had a script that took webcam selfie every minute for a year. I never thought to classify it till now. thanks, I'm going to make it again.
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When I was in second grade, which per my timeline, was many years before anyone had access to "a computer" outside of a college lab, I recall doing some kind of arts and crafts thing, or fixing a pen, or something, and I channeled a bit of my dad's energy and got very focused on this task. In second grade, it was before they shuttled me off to the gifted and talented program with other "smart kids" so the other kids sort of looked on me as an unusual weirdo, pretty standard stuff, but anyway, this girl that was watching me do whatever it was said, "you look angry", and I realized that channeling my dad's "let's fix this" energy did specifically include some facial contortion that pretty much looked like anger.
nowadays I'm very often a flaming angry coder but that's real anger. It feels the same as when you get angry to press the fire button really fast in a video game, kind of thing. It's been a major issue for decades now as if there are any other people around, I have to really watch my mannerisms and mumblings because there have been negative outcomes from it.
I've also sprinted with other devs who do the same thing. Plus I think it occurs in other fields, like my old drum teacher when I watch him in videos, when he's going for some dramatic drum thing, his face turns to total anger and it is definitely some kind of visceral animal thing you tap into when trying to succeed in a tight space.
nowadays I'm very often a flaming angry coder but that's real anger. It feels the same as when you get angry to press the fire button really fast in a video game, kind of thing. It's been a major issue for decades now as if there are any other people around, I have to really watch my mannerisms and mumblings because there have been negative outcomes from it.
I've also sprinted with other devs who do the same thing. Plus I think it occurs in other fields, like my old drum teacher when I watch him in videos, when he's going for some dramatic drum thing, his face turns to total anger and it is definitely some kind of visceral animal thing you tap into when trying to succeed in a tight space.
> nowadays I'm very often a flaming angry coder but that's real anger. It feels the same as when you get angry to press the fire button really fast in a video game, kind of thing. It's been a major issue for decades now as if there are any other people around, I have to really watch my mannerisms and mumblings because there have been negative outcomes from it.
I'm the same, I completely control my mannerisms and usual expletives when coding near people because... It can get fire-y for no reason, I know that it's just work and code but my inner monologue needs to vent out each frustration I find. I learned that it can appear quite toxic for an outsider, they don't live in my head to know that saying "this fucking bullshit shouldn't have been done this way" is not a judgment on anyone's character or technical abilities, I'm very aware that crappy code was done under constraints (skill level, time crunch, so on and so forth) but somehow I do need to be angry about it to push myself around to fix stuff that doesn't seem right.
It can look aggressive and whiny at the same time and I definitely want to avoid people having this impression of me because I truly don't care so much, it's just work and I kinda gotta do it this way when alone to keep myself in it.
I'm the same, I completely control my mannerisms and usual expletives when coding near people because... It can get fire-y for no reason, I know that it's just work and code but my inner monologue needs to vent out each frustration I find. I learned that it can appear quite toxic for an outsider, they don't live in my head to know that saying "this fucking bullshit shouldn't have been done this way" is not a judgment on anyone's character or technical abilities, I'm very aware that crappy code was done under constraints (skill level, time crunch, so on and so forth) but somehow I do need to be angry about it to push myself around to fix stuff that doesn't seem right.
It can look aggressive and whiny at the same time and I definitely want to avoid people having this impression of me because I truly don't care so much, it's just work and I kinda gotta do it this way when alone to keep myself in it.
>Plus I think it occurs in other fields, like my old drum teacher when I watch him in videos, when he's going for some dramatic drum thing, his face turns to total anger and it is definitely some kind of visceral animal thing you tap into when trying to succeed in a tight space.
Guitarists facials abound - (and anything you can watch with Steve Vai playing will show even more) - https://youtu.be/CqdL36VKbMQ
Guitarists facials abound - (and anything you can watch with Steve Vai playing will show even more) - https://youtu.be/CqdL36VKbMQ
I found out relatively recently that I look angry when I relax my face. It makes me sad to think how less approachable it has made me over the years. Maybe even lost me some opportunities where someone might have started talking to me or something.
I don’t care how I look while focusing on my computer screen, maybe that’s a feature. But I do mind how I look when I’m just existing in the world.
I now hold my face consciously in an ever so light smile and it has made a big difference. Especially when entering social situations like a bar or party. Damn you, Resting bitch face!
I don’t care how I look while focusing on my computer screen, maybe that’s a feature. But I do mind how I look when I’m just existing in the world.
I now hold my face consciously in an ever so light smile and it has made a big difference. Especially when entering social situations like a bar or party. Damn you, Resting bitch face!
This is one reason legacy companies have a hard time executing on software creation. They fundamentally don't understand wtf those engineers are doing. Just ITT alone there are engineers who have been characterized as daydreaming, angry and sad when in fact they were building "castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination." to quote Fred Brooks.
That sort of ignorance is death on a bun for software innovation in MBA heavy organizations where non-technical project/product managers rule the roost.
That sort of ignorance is death on a bun for software innovation in MBA heavy organizations where non-technical project/product managers rule the roost.
"Do you suffer from Bitchy Resting Face"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XinArKp_6fs
Although kinda unisex name, the male version is the resting murder face. Which sounds about right for certain kinds of bugs :)
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Resting%20Mu...
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Resting%20Mu...
I'm male, and I prefer to think of it as my (unisex) bitchy resting face. :)
Yes, I'm angry. Stop staring at me asking if I'm okay. I'm commanding lightning to do my bidding.
> I'm commanding lightning to do my bidding.
My daughter asked me what I do at work all day last night, and I told her I push a lot of buttons, which (predictably) led to 1000 questions about what buttons, what order, why, etc. From now on I'm just going to say this. :)
My daughter asked me what I do at work all day last night, and I told her I push a lot of buttons, which (predictably) led to 1000 questions about what buttons, what order, why, etc. From now on I'm just going to say this. :)
Mandatory Seinfeld reference [1]. Honestly, this is good advice. So much of work is actually just perception management. Looking annoyed or angry without actually being mean or inconsiderate is a bit of a cheat code.
Beyond perception management there's the issue of avoiding unnecessary interruptions. It can be hard to define what's necesary and what isn't. Rarely does it have anything to do with what someone is interrupting you for but instead, it is (once again) it's perception management.
There is a context-switching contest that comes from being interrupted and it can be hard to get back in the zone. So you want to avoid people interrupting you to ask something that would quite literally be the first link on a trivial Google search.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
Beyond perception management there's the issue of avoiding unnecessary interruptions. It can be hard to define what's necesary and what isn't. Rarely does it have anything to do with what someone is interrupting you for but instead, it is (once again) it's perception management.
There is a context-switching contest that comes from being interrupted and it can be hard to get back in the zone. So you want to avoid people interrupting you to ask something that would quite literally be the first link on a trivial Google search.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
I have noticed this since joining a new team this year. There is one person on my team
who is always annoyed and complaining about something but really they just dont get anything done. There are various times I had to work with them, and when there are no blockers whatsoever they wont do shit.
I would love to be able to say “do something about it” when they goes on their rants but american culture is too polite. Most of their contributions to team meetings is “docked has this new thing that could be helpful” and various other name-drops. Idk if the rest of the ppl are fooled or its just a thing we put up with.
I would love to be able to say “do something about it” when they goes on their rants but american culture is too polite. Most of their contributions to team meetings is “docked has this new thing that could be helpful” and various other name-drops. Idk if the rest of the ppl are fooled or its just a thing we put up with.
I remember working with a team where a new starter had joined and although he talked a lot in meetings I wasn't sure what he was contributing. I checked the code commits and he had committed 2 things in a couple of months.
It wasn't my team so I didn't cause a fuss but from that point onwards I made sure that he wasn't on the critical path for anything I cared about.
In hindsight the mismanagement on that team probably led to the exit 5 years later being $100-200 million lower than it could have been. But the company was super stingy with shares so I'm not sure it would have been worth my time rocking the boat.
In other hindsight I might have realised why I look angry while I'm at work.
It wasn't my team so I didn't cause a fuss but from that point onwards I made sure that he wasn't on the critical path for anything I cared about.
In hindsight the mismanagement on that team probably led to the exit 5 years later being $100-200 million lower than it could have been. But the company was super stingy with shares so I'm not sure it would have been worth my time rocking the boat.
In other hindsight I might have realised why I look angry while I'm at work.
Sounds like you should move over to Docker :p
HA, the latest namedrop was “I attended github universe, they’re working on a lot of CiCD stuff that can be helpful “
I think americans are just high trust society so they’re not usually skeptical of people. Im skeptical of myself much less other ppl :D
I think americans are just high trust society so they’re not usually skeptical of people. Im skeptical of myself much less other ppl :D
I stick my tongue out to the side like a cartoon character.
I always thought this was just some sort of trope and not a real thing, but then one time my monitor went blank suddenly and I saw myself.
I always thought this was just some sort of trope and not a real thing, but then one time my monitor went blank suddenly and I saw myself.
I just pictured a bearded guy (myself) with a tongue out, wearing a hat facing a bit more to the right, while leaning forward typing on a keyboard. Amusing picture, but unlike me. I look angry when in deep thought and focused. And loud when excited in discussions you'd think I am yelling.
I'm rocking the Gríma Wormtongue/Severus Snape look - hair, nose and all.
I guess the words I looking for to describe how I appear are "vaguely creepy".
I guess the words I looking for to describe how I appear are "vaguely creepy".
https://youtu.be/GXTaDykmAV4
Sticking out your tongue reduces the need for your brain to manage it, freeing up resources for what you’re concentrating on.
Sticking out your tongue reduces the need for your brain to manage it, freeing up resources for what you’re concentrating on.
Yes, I was once interrupted by a co-worker while I was working, and he just said "Smile." Part of working in the panopticon.
The only reasonable response is aggression. Any asshole who does that deserves it.
I think the act was wrong, but the person was someone I otherwise respected and got along with. This is one of the things that the culture does to people when you pack them in like sardines. It's not natural to be looking at someone all day and not have an urge to just say something to them. If you manage to resist the urge, or worse, signal that your focus has value to you, you start to get branded as unfriendly. It's emotional boot camp to break down your individual identity.
Males saying this to females is very much a thing. Particularly older males to younger females.
"I am Smiling!"
Not creepy at all!
A coworker once walked around to my side of the desk to see what I was looking at on my screen. It was just some code that I'd written. They were surprised, and said it looked like I was staring at a picture of something truly disgusting.
I mean I don’t want to insult your code but I’ve certainly looked at my code and it has been a picture of something truly disgusting.
I fear that some of my C code would get me up against The Hague for war crimes …
I fear that some of my C code would get me up against The Hague for war crimes …
"Who wrote this disgusting monstrosity?" Looks at the commit from months earlier and sees my own username...
I do and I also display other strong emotions such as disgust, surprise etc.
But I also think that I look angry because I _am_ angry.
Anger allows us to increase arousal and helps us focus on an 'obstacle' and programming presents many obstacles.
It's self defeating however, because working in this way is exhausting.
In working with a close friend, who programs much more patiently and methodically, I'm slowly learning to let go of my 'ADD' (Anger Driven Development).
I think I used to consider the slow and steady approach to be plodding, and using my intense approach I really could get a lot of great work done very fast, but after a few burnouts, I had to find another way.
But coding while angry also has another major downside. Anger narrows your focus of attention on what you consider to be the 'threat' or 'obstacle', and anyone who's done technical work knows that the solution is often found by divergent thinking.
Edit: Many people are saying that they only look angry, and that they actually aren't angry. This may be 100% true, but the facial feedback hypothesis suggests that when you make an angry face, your internal state tends towards anger.
But I also think that I look angry because I _am_ angry.
Anger allows us to increase arousal and helps us focus on an 'obstacle' and programming presents many obstacles.
It's self defeating however, because working in this way is exhausting.
In working with a close friend, who programs much more patiently and methodically, I'm slowly learning to let go of my 'ADD' (Anger Driven Development).
I think I used to consider the slow and steady approach to be plodding, and using my intense approach I really could get a lot of great work done very fast, but after a few burnouts, I had to find another way.
But coding while angry also has another major downside. Anger narrows your focus of attention on what you consider to be the 'threat' or 'obstacle', and anyone who's done technical work knows that the solution is often found by divergent thinking.
Edit: Many people are saying that they only look angry, and that they actually aren't angry. This may be 100% true, but the facial feedback hypothesis suggests that when you make an angry face, your internal state tends towards anger.
> Anger narrows your focus of attention on what you consider to be the 'threat' or 'obstacle', and anyone who's done technical work knows that the solution is often found by divergent thinking.
This is an interesting perspective. For me, anger sometimes helps me break out of a patient grind on a poor approach to a problem so I can consider more radical, divergent approaches.
For example, week before last, I did a refactoring that affected a few dozen lines of production code, felt good about the change, then ran the complete test suite and discovered hundreds of lines of test code that I had to fix, across dozens of files, because of fixture code that was copy-pasted between files instead of shared as well as rampant use of unnecessary mocks. My patient, responsible side started making the fixes one by one and scolding myself for feeling angry about it, telling myself we're all learning, etc., and this is part of working with less experienced programmers. I guess I'm at a point in my programming journey where for a while now I've been suppressing my elitist tendencies and conditioning myself to accept that it will be my teammates' level, not mine, that dictates the quality of code that we produce, and internally chiding myself for even thinking of it as "shitty code." But this time I snapped. I was too disgusted by what I was doing. I had such a strong "fuck this" reaction that I stopped making the fixes and left my office fuming. I came back an hour later and started consolidating fixtures and rewriting tests. It took me almost a week of unplanned work, but it made me so happy to just fucking kill that shitty code instead of making myself patiently, dutifully deal with it.
I think it was the right thing to do from a team leadership perspective as well. My teammates were surprised at what I was able to do, and now they can see a better way to write tests. We probably won't get that full 4-5 days of effort back in the specific part of the code I was working on, but I am optimistic that future code my team produces will look more like the cleaned up version than the original mess, and the effort will be paid back that way.
This is an interesting perspective. For me, anger sometimes helps me break out of a patient grind on a poor approach to a problem so I can consider more radical, divergent approaches.
For example, week before last, I did a refactoring that affected a few dozen lines of production code, felt good about the change, then ran the complete test suite and discovered hundreds of lines of test code that I had to fix, across dozens of files, because of fixture code that was copy-pasted between files instead of shared as well as rampant use of unnecessary mocks. My patient, responsible side started making the fixes one by one and scolding myself for feeling angry about it, telling myself we're all learning, etc., and this is part of working with less experienced programmers. I guess I'm at a point in my programming journey where for a while now I've been suppressing my elitist tendencies and conditioning myself to accept that it will be my teammates' level, not mine, that dictates the quality of code that we produce, and internally chiding myself for even thinking of it as "shitty code." But this time I snapped. I was too disgusted by what I was doing. I had such a strong "fuck this" reaction that I stopped making the fixes and left my office fuming. I came back an hour later and started consolidating fixtures and rewriting tests. It took me almost a week of unplanned work, but it made me so happy to just fucking kill that shitty code instead of making myself patiently, dutifully deal with it.
I think it was the right thing to do from a team leadership perspective as well. My teammates were surprised at what I was able to do, and now they can see a better way to write tests. We probably won't get that full 4-5 days of effort back in the specific part of the code I was working on, but I am optimistic that future code my team produces will look more like the cleaned up version than the original mess, and the effort will be paid back that way.
> Many people are saying that they only look angry, and that they actually aren't angry. This may be 100% true, but the facial feedback hypothesis suggests
I used to know someone like that; even when she smiled, her eyes seemed to have a pained crinkle around the edges. She insisted that she felt fine, that it was just a trick of her facial features - but she tended to get aggravated by other people so easily that it was hard to believe her. I suspect that she was simply accustomed to a baseline feeling of irritation and didn't really notice its presence.
(Validating the facial-feedback hypothesis further, I knew someone else who got botox treatment for her forehead, so she could no longer scowl; this notably improved her mood.)
I used to know someone like that; even when she smiled, her eyes seemed to have a pained crinkle around the edges. She insisted that she felt fine, that it was just a trick of her facial features - but she tended to get aggravated by other people so easily that it was hard to believe her. I suspect that she was simply accustomed to a baseline feeling of irritation and didn't really notice its presence.
(Validating the facial-feedback hypothesis further, I knew someone else who got botox treatment for her forehead, so she could no longer scowl; this notably improved her mood.)
I kind of get this too. Had to change because burnout became a real thing. I changed up the music i was listening too. And now with more fast tempo techno music for me i find the energy levels i want to reach are helped with the music but without the fatigue from focusing on the anger too much.
I am more 'angry' when I'm coding. Maybe it's also so people won't interrupt me? But mainly I think it's because when I code I enter a different mode which isn't as sociable. It's like the human interface task gets pushed down in priority. I once scared someone who interrupted me and all I did was look up at them... They left in a hurry. I literally wasn't trying to do that and I apologized to them later.
Yo.
The more enthused I am about things the more scary I am to other mammals, apparently. Don't have any real advice to offer: I deal with it by working alone.
The more enthused I am about things the more scary I am to other mammals, apparently. Don't have any real advice to offer: I deal with it by working alone.
Relatable!
Also known as "INTJ Death Glare", https://intj-explained.tumblr.com/post/10233359295/the-death...
I do. I'm frowning but I'm unaware. It is just my "I'm concentrated" face.
Story time: Shortly after I was hired at SiemensVDO, my group leader came by just to say "Hi" and looking at him with my "concentrated" face I asked in a husky voice "What do you want?". Totally caught him by surprise, so he barely mumbled "I only wanted to say Hi" and walked away. The floor was open office, with at least 50 people in the room. He was known as a very severe manager, which demanded a lot from the programmers (also he was a former Uni teacher hired by Siemens 10 years earlier), and whenever he was entering our big room, everybody rushed to look busy and kept their head down, not wanting to be caught in his gaze.
Funny thing about the situation is that I was unaware it was him when I said that, and only after he left I fully understood what just happened. In any case, he was severe but also a just manager and recognized hard workers. After that little incident he treated me differently than any other person in that floor. When talking with me he started using a "sweet" voice, reserved only for his bosses while continuing to use his "rough" voice with everybody else. I became "de facto" person to tell him unpleasant stuff for that room, and funny enough this led to an even better relation between us. One of the best managers I had in my 10 years tenure throughout different corporations before I became freelancer.
Story time: Shortly after I was hired at SiemensVDO, my group leader came by just to say "Hi" and looking at him with my "concentrated" face I asked in a husky voice "What do you want?". Totally caught him by surprise, so he barely mumbled "I only wanted to say Hi" and walked away. The floor was open office, with at least 50 people in the room. He was known as a very severe manager, which demanded a lot from the programmers (also he was a former Uni teacher hired by Siemens 10 years earlier), and whenever he was entering our big room, everybody rushed to look busy and kept their head down, not wanting to be caught in his gaze.
Funny thing about the situation is that I was unaware it was him when I said that, and only after he left I fully understood what just happened. In any case, he was severe but also a just manager and recognized hard workers. After that little incident he treated me differently than any other person in that floor. When talking with me he started using a "sweet" voice, reserved only for his bosses while continuing to use his "rough" voice with everybody else. I became "de facto" person to tell him unpleasant stuff for that room, and funny enough this led to an even better relation between us. One of the best managers I had in my 10 years tenure throughout different corporations before I became freelancer.
My SO always tells me I look worried while working. Used to ask me whats wrong, nowadays just accepts is as a sign that I 'm focusing.
Haha, mine often says "are you ok?" - my response is always, "yeah, I'm just thinking."
(usually thinking: stop asking me things, I'm THINKING! haha)
(usually thinking: stop asking me things, I'm THINKING! haha)
My wife often asks if I'm angry or thinking.
One thing that I remember is a tough consulting project where I travelled every week to a customer site (note: long long ago).
However, I did pick up some light morning yoga since my schedule was so packed I couldn't go to a class but I needed some additional stress relief.
I noticed that after I started doing that (part of the yoga video involved actively relaxing your face), I tended to adopt that relaxed face a lot more. It was serene, welcoming - compared to my very intense normal visage given the stress levels.
Suddenly people not only reacted to me in a much more honest and direct way which made things easier. I then decided to ramp it up and use that face explicitly on calls and meetings - where I was received very very well (even conference calls without video). I gained visibility with the client higher-ups. In fact, I could probably still be working for them if I wanted to (ended contract as my first kid was on the way - too much travel).
It's not a lot of time investment and a great learning lesson.
However, I did pick up some light morning yoga since my schedule was so packed I couldn't go to a class but I needed some additional stress relief.
I noticed that after I started doing that (part of the yoga video involved actively relaxing your face), I tended to adopt that relaxed face a lot more. It was serene, welcoming - compared to my very intense normal visage given the stress levels.
Suddenly people not only reacted to me in a much more honest and direct way which made things easier. I then decided to ramp it up and use that face explicitly on calls and meetings - where I was received very very well (even conference calls without video). I gained visibility with the client higher-ups. In fact, I could probably still be working for them if I wanted to (ended contract as my first kid was on the way - too much travel).
It's not a lot of time investment and a great learning lesson.
Yes, apparently I am in the Focused/Angry Face cohort. When I am reading deeply, or thinking through complex issues I must be wearing a scary face as it prompts my wife to ask “ are you ok?” Which always makes me angry as it breaks my concentration. As far as I know, until interrupted I was in a neutral emotional state .
Of course I look angry – I work with computers all day
I was finishing up some work with my camera on during group meeting. Someone had their young child on their lap, and the kid asked "Daddy, who's the angry man?"
Yes, absolutely, I do, and not just when writing code. I used to work on retail self-service kiosks, and I'd sometimes have to work in the hardware lab around the QA engineers, who for some reason at this company tended to be very perky, gregarious extraverts. They'd see me in there chasing down a bug on one of the kiosks, and invariably they'd ask what's wrong or tell me to cheer up or ask if maybe I'd heard something about the latest round of layoffs.
I do it when I play guitar or piano, too. I've had people ask me why I'm angry when I'm playing. My mom did it, too, when she played play piano.
I just figure it's because I'm focusing so hard on what I'm doing that I stop concentrating on my expression.
I do it when I play guitar or piano, too. I've had people ask me why I'm angry when I'm playing. My mom did it, too, when she played play piano.
I just figure it's because I'm focusing so hard on what I'm doing that I stop concentrating on my expression.
Yes, anger fuels my thirst for blood. While I'm hunting down a bug or digging into a design decision's history. It's not rage (usually), it's more like a mixture of frustration and curiosity. Bewildered and tempting. It's almost as if I'm being teased, but I know there's actually a good reason, somewhere.
Common lines:
"What the actual fuck!?" "Are you serious!?" slams both hands on keyboard "Uuummmmmmmmm..." "Whyyyyyyyy"
Then you lean into the monitor and continue searching.
Common lines:
"What the actual fuck!?" "Are you serious!?" slams both hands on keyboard "Uuummmmmmmmm..." "Whyyyyyyyy"
Then you lean into the monitor and continue searching.
I have total resting bitch face, folks sometimes ask what in the meeting made me so mad. Really annoying.
Reminds me of a (Wodehouse I think) short story where a young man is told by his doctor to smile more and every time he does it anyone who is looking at him thinks that the smiler knows his dark secrets - resulting in all sorts of promotions and other good things, which he attributes to being “nicer”.
Frowning faces are common while deep in thoughts.
Personally, I sigh loudly. Not out of annoyance or fatigue, I just sigh.
Personally, I sigh loudly. Not out of annoyance or fatigue, I just sigh.
Yep, same. When I realise it, I always think of [0]. It also keeps people from disturbing me though.
[0] https://youtu.be/rOQmxNPTJwc
[0] https://youtu.be/rOQmxNPTJwc
To get more oxygen to the brain maybe.
American focus on looking happy or smiling when nothing happens that warrants it is truly bewildering.
:)
*My natural relaxed neutral expression is a frown.
I have to exert effort just to position my mouth in a neutral (not frowning, not smiling) position.
While walking to the coffee maker in an office, people will often ask me what's wrong.
*On the other hand, sometimes when out in public at a store or whatever, I'll force a smile at a stranger, and they almost always smile back.
*So I have to assume that my natural frowning face probably hurts my daily interactions.
Not only when I work... I generally look mad; somewhat permanently furrowed brow, I suppose
I've also been routinely mistaken for somebody with military service history. I guess something to do with how I glare
Skeptical it's about how I dress, it hasn't significantly changed since I was a teenager. Purely focused on comfort. I can't be bothered to buy clothes!
I've also been told I have a smile that lights up a room; people can't make up their minds... or maybe it really melts this angry image
I've also been routinely mistaken for somebody with military service history. I guess something to do with how I glare
Skeptical it's about how I dress, it hasn't significantly changed since I was a teenager. Purely focused on comfort. I can't be bothered to buy clothes!
I've also been told I have a smile that lights up a room; people can't make up their minds... or maybe it really melts this angry image
Yup, a furrowed brow is an occupational hazard.
Yes, but only because I am angry.
There's no more productive morning than an angry morning. It's great fuel for tackling the email backlog... albeit sometimes with mixed results.
Either that, or frustrated. I can realy relate to the Baum guy from The Big Short, if I am curious I am not angry and / or frustrated.
Ditto.
I think it's not related (Angry vs Focus).
Being angry while coding means you're using the wrong tech stack i think. Fix that.
Being angry while coding means you're using the wrong tech stack i think. Fix that.
[deleted]
Well I am constantly muttering "FFS" while battling with my code/compiler, so maybe.
I think it's easy to look angry when you're focusing at a desk, because you're looking down. Which sort of gives the impression of glowering. If you're giving some the stink eye, upright and facing them, you tilt your head forward (though maybe this is cultural? Not sure). When you're at your desk, other people are at a kinda similar angle.
I noticed this in high school once. I was reading at a table and someone across from me wanted my attention. I glanced up at them without moving my head, and they were like, "geez, sorry to bother you, we'll talk later." But I wasn't annoyed, I'd miscommunication with my body language.
I noticed this in high school once. I was reading at a table and someone across from me wanted my attention. I glanced up at them without moving my head, and they were like, "geez, sorry to bother you, we'll talk later." But I wasn't annoyed, I'd miscommunication with my body language.
When I am in the zone and people talk to me, I have a tendency to turn around suddenly, startled and distracted.
So, I have trained myself turn around suddenly with a big smile and cheerfully say "How are you doing :-) :-) :-)
It seems ridiculous, but better that the alternative.
So, I have trained myself turn around suddenly with a big smile and cheerfully say "How are you doing :-) :-) :-)
It seems ridiculous, but better that the alternative.
run macro turn_smile_greet
Yes, I do. Every time I've seen a picture of me when I was focused on something I look pissed.
I can't control it though, it's just that naturally I get a frown with squinting eyes when I'm deep in thoughts, or looking sideways while I left my mind wander around the problem I'm thinking about.
From what I observe with colleagues and friends it seems to be pretty natural as well. My housemates doing their PhDs usually look super-pissed when studying or analysing data at home.
On top of that the general disconnect from the normal world when you are deep entrenched in your thoughts probably doesn't look inviting either, haha. I just think it's quite normal in my experience.
I can't control it though, it's just that naturally I get a frown with squinting eyes when I'm deep in thoughts, or looking sideways while I left my mind wander around the problem I'm thinking about.
From what I observe with colleagues and friends it seems to be pretty natural as well. My housemates doing their PhDs usually look super-pissed when studying or analysing data at home.
On top of that the general disconnect from the normal world when you are deep entrenched in your thoughts probably doesn't look inviting either, haha. I just think it's quite normal in my experience.
Yes. When I'm super focused on something my wife will walk in the room and ask my what I'm so angry about. I've also been told that my typing seems angry, usually when the words are flowing easily and I'm typing extra fast.
Yeah, for a while I had an office rep as an "angry typer" - that's exactly how everyone framed it. I guess my typing style was/is audibly more aggressive than other people when I get focused on something.
I don't look angry when focusing at the computer, instead I just look miserable! You know how the corners of your mouth are turned down (looking miserable) and you simply forget how you look (even if you are peforming a pleasant task).
I have to consciously turn up my mouth corners ever so slightly, relax my facial expression. It's not about turning into a fake smile. It can be a subtle change, but you immediately will spot change in your facial expression. And others (including strangers) will spot it too.
Look in the mirror at your natural expression and try the tiniest change to your expression. You'll immediately spot the change to you expression.
I have to consciously turn up my mouth corners ever so slightly, relax my facial expression. It's not about turning into a fake smile. It can be a subtle change, but you immediately will spot change in your facial expression. And others (including strangers) will spot it too.
Look in the mirror at your natural expression and try the tiniest change to your expression. You'll immediately spot the change to you expression.
> You know how the corners of your mouth are turned down (looking miserable)
That's just my normal face. When I focus, my eyebrows bunch up and I am told I scare people.
That's just my normal face. When I focus, my eyebrows bunch up and I am told I scare people.
Yes. It is my ADHD coping mechanism to being able to mad-code at breakneck speed.
A meek scowl is more than enough to keep water cooler longer-ongers away.
I compensate that with dazzling and addicting presentations at meetings coupled with colorful proses.
A meek scowl is more than enough to keep water cooler longer-ongers away.
I compensate that with dazzling and addicting presentations at meetings coupled with colorful proses.
Yeah, any time I'm engaged in deep thought, including coding, I just... look angry. I've had to explain to people at work that that's just how my face is when I'm working.
I used to. It was an subconscious reflection of my personal life. Things changed, and I changed. It's probably not the same for everyone, but that was it for me. Work is much less tiring now.
My adult son is the most happy person I know but often makes angry faces. He also has night terrors. Nightmares he doesn't remember.
In ny gut I think there is a relationship between his happy nature and not knowing how to be angry. It's kind of like he doesn't have a middle ground of being angry.It's his happy face 90% of the time, then super angry face when annoyed. An angry face which is not really representative of who he is.
In ny gut I think there is a relationship between his happy nature and not knowing how to be angry. It's kind of like he doesn't have a middle ground of being angry.It's his happy face 90% of the time, then super angry face when annoyed. An angry face which is not really representative of who he is.
Yes, and if you interrupt me to ask me if I'm angry, then I'm going to both look like I'm angry and actually be angry. Leave me alone, I have work to do! :p
My resting face makes people assume I'm very focused. I usually am, but only to the activity, not the task. People tends not to approach me as they assume I'm very busy, both a pro and a con in a social setting. I also realize I made some people uncomfortable, as they are not used to such investigative gaze. But the real pro is that people never really try to bullshit me or pester me with petty concerns.
I have probably looked angry while working because people tell me I look angry in general, probably more so when I'm in focused but it has never stopped anyone from interrupting me while I'm working.
Also mandatory Seinfeld reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
Also mandatory Seinfeld reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
>but it has never stopped anyone from interrupting me while I'm working
Are you sure?
Are you sure?
If I'm working with other people, usually rest my chin in my hand and cover my mouth when I concentrate specifically to signal that I'm not angry and can be approached because my eyes often suggest otherwise. It's not really a conscious effort or anything, but it certainly changes my expression from "angry" to "furrowed brow."
I do.
And like many others, I can also look like I'm experiencing other emotions because I am. But I have a resting angry face, and it gets more extreme the more deeply I am thinking.
My wife works in a company with programmers, and they keep their webcams off during virtual meetings because, "We don't want people to see our thinking faces." Yes, that is an exact quote.
And like many others, I can also look like I'm experiencing other emotions because I am. But I have a resting angry face, and it gets more extreme the more deeply I am thinking.
My wife works in a company with programmers, and they keep their webcams off during virtual meetings because, "We don't want people to see our thinking faces." Yes, that is an exact quote.
I'm not sure if I look angry but I genuinely am angry when writing code. I don't know why but when I get in the zone I grow increasingly angry and aggravated. It's not a particularly fun way to be but it has been the case for as long as I remember.
Can relate, even at uni people told me I look unapproachable but it's just the concentration face (I want to believe).
I do. Now I try to consciously reconnect more with my (extremely sophisticated) face muscles (a mirror helps)
IMO, our current lifestyle is certainly not making this any better.
100 years earlier, people communicated/worked with people face to face most of the time. Knowledge work (i.e in your head) was way less frequent. Screens, totally absent.
IMO, our current lifestyle is certainly not making this any better.
100 years earlier, people communicated/worked with people face to face most of the time. Knowledge work (i.e in your head) was way less frequent. Screens, totally absent.
Yep. I got the all the time. Co workers, spouse, etc.
Apparently if I’m very focused, in the zone, on a problem; I look totally pissed off.
If anything all my emotions are turned off when I’m like that.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve been highly disoriented after someone grabs my attention to find out what’s wrong.
Apparently if I’m very focused, in the zone, on a problem; I look totally pissed off.
If anything all my emotions are turned off when I’m like that.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve been highly disoriented after someone grabs my attention to find out what’s wrong.
I set up a webcam to take selfies every few minutes last year because someone made the same comment to me. Turns out I look like I’m fully prepared to kill when I’m focused intently on something. Which is weird, because I’m rarely actually angry, and when my face is relaxed I look pretty genial.
I was born with congenital RBF (Resting Bitch Face) and it's been a mild inconvenience in my work and relationships. I've actually tried to adjust my neutral face as a result just so that I don't freak out bystanders when I'm waiting for a bus or looking at a restaurant menu.
My SO of 7 years postponed approaching me for months because she thought that I am a generally angry person.
Many other people have reported that I appear "unapproachable" when I am working, although the opposite is true. I am one of the most friendly, helpful, and jolly person that I know.
Many other people have reported that I appear "unapproachable" when I am working, although the opposite is true. I am one of the most friendly, helpful, and jolly person that I know.
I look angry most of the time and concentrating makes it much worse, so yes. That said, I'm a total introvert and very misanthropic in my outlook, so I actively cultivate the pissed look, it keeps people away and that's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish with it.
Perhaps you've just taken on the George Costanza method of looking busy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
"When you look annoyed all the time, people think that you're busy!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
"When you look annoyed all the time, people think that you're busy!"
Yes, I do. And I made that my favorite answer to the now famous interview question: "What is your biggest flaw?"
I look angry to the point some people may find discomforting to work with me. It is their biggest flaw not to know how to handle coworkers who look angry like me.
I look angry to the point some people may find discomforting to work with me. It is their biggest flaw not to know how to handle coworkers who look angry like me.
I know I do. It's more or less RBF. I wish people would judge less on looks before getting to know you. At least your friend asked about it and didn't just assume anything about you. :)
I have this expression when focused on work, playing sports, and at music concerts.
I have this expression when focused on work, playing sports, and at music concerts.
I know that I at least sound angry.
[deleted]
[deleted]
If I were angry whilst at the cafe, and received a photo of myself, looking angry—I'm pretty sure that'd make it worse. An unusual way to show concern, but I guess that's the age we live in.
edit: misplaced modifier
edit: misplaced modifier
It has been said of me too, on a few occasions! Resting concentration face.
I can see myself without moving by changing focus. (Recently broke a screen and got a glossy as replacement and use a dark theme.) Look neutral but need to avoid scrunching between the eyes.
Best thing about WFH is being able to swear out loud every few minutes.
Doesn't everyone? Coding is frustrating. Comes with the territory.
I look angry all the time, they call it "resting bitch face"
I don't look angry while I'm programming (unless I'm really struggling with a bug) but can get very anti-social and short, which has been perceived as me being angry.
This happened with a friend. Anytime he read anything, his face made this big snarl like he was offended at what he was reading. It turned out he just needed reading glasses.
I've been told I look scary walking around the office. I realize I walk quickly and determined on my way between meetings. Apparently it made me look aggressive and scary.
Idk. we just have to assume people are fine even if it is not expressed through their face. There are other indicators for distress, such as tears or literally angry faces.
Yes. For some reason my concentration face looks like a rage face
I make a point every hour to look away from my computer and smile with the biggest smile I can muster.
My face tends to tense up toward a frown when I’m focused and the smile helps a lot.
My face tends to tense up toward a frown when I’m focused and the smile helps a lot.
Gerald Weinberg in one of his books talked about training himself to look less forbidding. I suppose that it was Secrets of Consulting, but am not sure.
I absolutely look angry when I code. There’s even photo proof from various conferences. Still love the results even if I’m grinding my teeth the whole time.
yep, emotionally i felt stressed and anxious during work , that i started to notice now, so i put my mobile on a corner and recorded a time-lapse, i seem visually angry or anxious as well,also on a out of work thing, when on family event i was so trying to make sure everything goes right, my friends and relatives pointed out that i seemed angry and cheer up, so my focus mode connected to angry and anxious i think
Yes.
Also, my 9-year-old daughter makes the same face when she is focusing.
Also, my 9-year-old daughter makes the same face when she is focusing.
Learned this tip from George Costanza: "I always look annoyed. Yeah, when you look annoyed all the time, people think that you're busy"
People have told me that my "concentration face" is very forbidding. And I do tend to swear under my breath a lot while I work too.
Yes, absolutely. Have received this feedback multiple times.
My father, who is not a software developer but a white-collar worker as well, is the same way.
My father, who is not a software developer but a white-collar worker as well, is the same way.
I always get the feedback that I look very angry when playing the piano. I guess it applies to me concentrating on other tasks as well.
haha apparently.. I'm a big softy but was told the other day that people are afraid to approach me because I scare them.
I guess a 6"2 dude glaring angrily at his screen all day is a bit scary
*edit. ha.. now I'm self-conscious I just noticed that my internal monologue leaks out sometimes.. and my internal monologue can use some fairly blue words at times...
I guess a 6"2 dude glaring angrily at his screen all day is a bit scary
*edit. ha.. now I'm self-conscious I just noticed that my internal monologue leaks out sometimes.. and my internal monologue can use some fairly blue words at times...
I know I type angry. That noise isn't the switches, it's just me. I added rubber rings but it only helps a little.
Yes, apparently, according to several people. Doesn't seem to occur with some forms of concentration (ex: reading fiction).
I read somewhere that there is feedback from facial muscles to the brain. They found people using Botox were actually calmer.
May be apocryphal.
May be apocryphal.
The best indicator for how angry I am at work is the force I hit the enter key with, and the loudness of the resulting clack.
I look angry while I work, because I typically am angry. Have you heard the things people say in meetings?
It might be that you are clenching your teeth while working. This makes one look angry.
Solution: relax the masseter every now and then.
Solution: relax the masseter every now and then.
My concentration face looks like I'm daydreaming, and I've been called out for not paying attention.
Definitely, a coworker asked me some time ago what I was frowned up on only to answer him I was just focused
I just look clueless. I am not clueless.
Earlier, people used to say this because they thought I was frowning. Actually, I was squinting!
I had to get glasses.
I had to get glasses.
Resting Business Face. Yes. You can tell how hard I'm working by how hard I'm cursing.
I don't know if I look angry, but I can make a lot of strange noises while programming.
Not while working, but I've been told I look like a serial killer when driving.
I have the most terrible frown when I’m concentrating. Not great for the wrinkles.
I've been told, by a coworker no less, that I have RBF (resting bitch face).
Probably. I often feel like I'm trying to beat the hell out of the code.
Same when I play videogames.
Agreed. It's probably the worst when I'm playing Super Smash Bros.
I think people can't differentiate between concentration and anger.
No, but I look annoyed while I work so everyone thinks I'm busy.
Oh I do for sure. I don't know why. Curious to read responses.
- Built with Rage
- Built with Rage
Add a sign: if i look angry, I'm just focused.
With a smiley
And then don't care anymore :)
With a smiley
And then don't care anymore :)
100%. I do not look happy when looking at a screen.
I had a co-worker call it RBF. Resting Bitch Face.
Only when I’m talking to idiot managers.
I think I have RBF and always look angry.
I feel you. I get the same thing a lot
Only when reading hacker news
Haha! Yes!
But right now I'm smiling! :)
But right now I'm smiling! :)
You can reprogram all these types of things, just by re-habiting them for a week or so.
I didn't want to get deep wrinkles (female vanity) or hold angry look (stress headaches/blood flow) because i think that posture towards work is damaging and subconsciously enforces notions from culture/childhood that doing/learning is "hard" "battle" "tough" etc, and
this starts the cascade of physical effects that those states would, like "bracing myself", changing breathing patterns to shallow and stiff, rigid muscles etc, leaning head forward a stupid degree, adrenaline/ anxiety chemicals, harming eyesight with needless strain etc.
Also increases procrastination because you've decided everything is difficult and risky and dangerous, which your ego wants to avoid at all costs.
I reprogrammed myself with thoughts about "childs mind" "how would a kid savant see this puzzle" and "what if this is super easy???" regardless of evidence haha...just mimicking the face and mannerisms and sounds like some form of method acting. Face muscles are like a curious zen baby buddha now lol, open and relaxed but wide eyed, and I have a set of funny/curious gestures too lighten my own mood during long sessions, exaggerated hmmmmmmmmm????, "curiouser and curiouser!!!" type stuff I stole from movies and happy memes
(and the muscle movements I remapped to ones that aid vanity (girls know this as facial yoga lol, work cheekbone muscles etc instead of furrowing brow)
beware of differences between home/office tho,
I literally gave myself 'Tourette's' when i reprogrammed myself to say a certain thing (OUT! and related easy to say exclamations) when upsetting negative/thoughts/memories intruded on my mind during a difficult time, and it worked wonderfully to dispel thought immediately and stay on task/positive when I'm working on work/hobbies at home.
Bad thing is I realized I kept doing it on outside on walks I was using to think thru problems, and a few times someone actually turned their head when I was talking to myself. Just pretended to be on a phone call/blue tooth haha... So I re-mapped the more common ones to deep breath exhalation and more subtle "tics" that have no social cost in public.
I also use the "talking to self out loud" for heavy stuff that only comes up sometimes. If you're working thru mental baggage, you can literally say stuff like "get out of my head ghost of shitty father" when you catch yourself ruminating on the past or feeling criticized or becoming like a bad parent etc. This "externalizing" is really effective for me. I also renamed certain recurrent baggage, such as calling father issues "Iago" as short hand (evil Shakespeare ref), or memories of harmless yet cringey stuff I map as dopey cartoon characters that fail in same ways. This really helps me create emotional distance and feel more in control, I guess that ultimately depends on how imaginative you are.
(I don't have any family history of schizophrenia and never use drugs, so I guess I'm not worried about this getting out of hand, shrug. And in the privacy of your own home, who cares?)
All these are ways to just keeping your mental landscape clear, maybe ten years of meditation would do the same but this suits me just fine for now.
I prevent doom scrolling sometimes by saying out loud "nice try culture war ya almost got me!" when I feel outrage. Catching your own mental reactions becomes easier as you practice the muscle.
In the kingdom of your skull you can think anything you want and create your own tools. Life is a state of mind.
I don't know if this helps most or if you need a certain temperament. My mindset is somehow both extremely open AND extremely judgmental at the same time, so I'm very friendly to all woo that may help yet feel zero loyalty to the media source/guru that developed it, just steal what works and dip haha
More 'rational' folks I've tried to share with are allergic to this mental-DIY stuff, yet casually harp on about potentials of nootropics or amphetamines or shrooms, eyeroll...
I require no evidence to try anything that has essentially no harms / costs / cults and just take the good, cut out the bad, and tailor it to myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I didn't want to get deep wrinkles (female vanity) or hold angry look (stress headaches/blood flow) because i think that posture towards work is damaging and subconsciously enforces notions from culture/childhood that doing/learning is "hard" "battle" "tough" etc, and
this starts the cascade of physical effects that those states would, like "bracing myself", changing breathing patterns to shallow and stiff, rigid muscles etc, leaning head forward a stupid degree, adrenaline/ anxiety chemicals, harming eyesight with needless strain etc.
Also increases procrastination because you've decided everything is difficult and risky and dangerous, which your ego wants to avoid at all costs.
I reprogrammed myself with thoughts about "childs mind" "how would a kid savant see this puzzle" and "what if this is super easy???" regardless of evidence haha...just mimicking the face and mannerisms and sounds like some form of method acting. Face muscles are like a curious zen baby buddha now lol, open and relaxed but wide eyed, and I have a set of funny/curious gestures too lighten my own mood during long sessions, exaggerated hmmmmmmmmm????, "curiouser and curiouser!!!" type stuff I stole from movies and happy memes
(and the muscle movements I remapped to ones that aid vanity (girls know this as facial yoga lol, work cheekbone muscles etc instead of furrowing brow)
beware of differences between home/office tho,
I literally gave myself 'Tourette's' when i reprogrammed myself to say a certain thing (OUT! and related easy to say exclamations) when upsetting negative/thoughts/memories intruded on my mind during a difficult time, and it worked wonderfully to dispel thought immediately and stay on task/positive when I'm working on work/hobbies at home.
Bad thing is I realized I kept doing it on outside on walks I was using to think thru problems, and a few times someone actually turned their head when I was talking to myself. Just pretended to be on a phone call/blue tooth haha... So I re-mapped the more common ones to deep breath exhalation and more subtle "tics" that have no social cost in public.
I also use the "talking to self out loud" for heavy stuff that only comes up sometimes. If you're working thru mental baggage, you can literally say stuff like "get out of my head ghost of shitty father" when you catch yourself ruminating on the past or feeling criticized or becoming like a bad parent etc. This "externalizing" is really effective for me. I also renamed certain recurrent baggage, such as calling father issues "Iago" as short hand (evil Shakespeare ref), or memories of harmless yet cringey stuff I map as dopey cartoon characters that fail in same ways. This really helps me create emotional distance and feel more in control, I guess that ultimately depends on how imaginative you are.
(I don't have any family history of schizophrenia and never use drugs, so I guess I'm not worried about this getting out of hand, shrug. And in the privacy of your own home, who cares?)
All these are ways to just keeping your mental landscape clear, maybe ten years of meditation would do the same but this suits me just fine for now.
I prevent doom scrolling sometimes by saying out loud "nice try culture war ya almost got me!" when I feel outrage. Catching your own mental reactions becomes easier as you practice the muscle.
In the kingdom of your skull you can think anything you want and create your own tools. Life is a state of mind.
I don't know if this helps most or if you need a certain temperament. My mindset is somehow both extremely open AND extremely judgmental at the same time, so I'm very friendly to all woo that may help yet feel zero loyalty to the media source/guru that developed it, just steal what works and dip haha
More 'rational' folks I've tried to share with are allergic to this mental-DIY stuff, yet casually harp on about potentials of nootropics or amphetamines or shrooms, eyeroll...
I require no evidence to try anything that has essentially no harms / costs / cults and just take the good, cut out the bad, and tailor it to myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
absolutely. it's due to my co-workers, mostly.
no. I am angry while I work.
Yep
Yes
Today a friend walked by a cafe where I was working. He saw me, sent a pic and asked me if everything was OK. I looked furious, which I don't understand, because I was being super productive and am a reasonably happy person.
Who else looks like they're going to war, when they're writing code?