Pizza rolls and the meaning of midcentury food(snackstack.net)
snackstack.net
Pizza rolls and the meaning of midcentury food
https://www.snackstack.net/p/pizza-rolls-and-the-meaning-of-midcentury
166 comments
One unremarked aspect of pizza rolls that I suspect is a universal "kid growing up in the US" experience is burning the ever loving hell out of your mouth with one as the the outside cools pretty quickly while the inside is molten for much too long.
Living near the dutch border, you get "kaassouffle" in a lot of places. Its basically breaded, deep fried gouda cheese. While I love them, I always warn friends tasting them for the first time - they can really ruin your mouth.
Kaassouffle is great and i don't know why it hasn't spread to higher-altitude parts of the world. I found the key to eating it safely was to have a glass of cold beer to hand.
In italy something very similar (sofficini) is quite common, but associated to kids food.
They also sell them with various additional fillings, such as cheese and ham, mushrooms, mozzarella and tomato (becoming something like Pizza rolls, I guess)… i always wondered why there’s really only one type of kaassouffle, really.
They also sell them with various additional fillings, such as cheese and ham, mushrooms, mozzarella and tomato (becoming something like Pizza rolls, I guess)… i always wondered why there’s really only one type of kaassouffle, really.
Microwave burritos iterated on that tradition by ensuring that you could pick exactly one of:
1. contents erupt from the corner like a volcano in the microwave
2. burrito unrolls itself during heating
3. mostly ice cold inside (although some ice cold spots will still happen in #1 and #2)
1. contents erupt from the corner like a volcano in the microwave
2. burrito unrolls itself during heating
3. mostly ice cold inside (although some ice cold spots will still happen in #1 and #2)
For two burritos in my microwave:
1. Position burritos on plate so the fold is on top and facing out
2. Microwave on high for 1 minute
3. Turn burritos over so fold is on bottom and facing in, so that if the fold busts it stays on the plate
4. Poke three sets of holes in top of each burrito with fork, evenly spaced
5. Microwave on high for 45 seconds
I have fine tuned my microwave burrito skills over the decades to have a perfectly microwaved burrito that is both not cold and doesn't burst. Problem is, there's no 45 second button on the microwave, so I usually press 2 for two minutes (if I give it a few seconds it'll start on it's own) and I try to make it back in time. I don't always get it and the ends might bust just a little bit.
1. Position burritos on plate so the fold is on top and facing out
2. Microwave on high for 1 minute
3. Turn burritos over so fold is on bottom and facing in, so that if the fold busts it stays on the plate
4. Poke three sets of holes in top of each burrito with fork, evenly spaced
5. Microwave on high for 45 seconds
I have fine tuned my microwave burrito skills over the decades to have a perfectly microwaved burrito that is both not cold and doesn't burst. Problem is, there's no 45 second button on the microwave, so I usually press 2 for two minutes (if I give it a few seconds it'll start on it's own) and I try to make it back in time. I don't always get it and the ends might bust just a little bit.
> there's no 45 second button on the microwave
Just turn down the power to 70% or 80% for one minute - it is equivalent. Varying power levels is microwaving 101 for heat control (especially for getting heat to the middle of cold things).
Aside: buy a microwave with knobs for timer control and ideally power level too (or a slider would be an even better UI for power level but I haven’t seen that). Buttons deeply suck on every microwave I have ever used. Think like a software UI designer when buying appliances: most appliances have horrific UIs, but with a little effort you can often find at least one model out of 50 with a usable UI (and sometimes the cheapest too). There is a branding opportunity here for a startup: the Apple of appliances would sell even at a high premium.
Just turn down the power to 70% or 80% for one minute - it is equivalent. Varying power levels is microwaving 101 for heat control (especially for getting heat to the middle of cold things).
Aside: buy a microwave with knobs for timer control and ideally power level too (or a slider would be an even better UI for power level but I haven’t seen that). Buttons deeply suck on every microwave I have ever used. Think like a software UI designer when buying appliances: most appliances have horrific UIs, but with a little effort you can often find at least one model out of 50 with a usable UI (and sometimes the cheapest too). There is a branding opportunity here for a startup: the Apple of appliances would sell even at a high premium.
Then there's more buttons to hit which is why I don't put 45 in.
Also, the UI and buttons don't seem horrible on most microwaves I've used. Not sure the issue there.
Also, the UI and buttons don't seem horrible on most microwaves I've used. Not sure the issue there.
I would never put in 45s by pressing buttons, it seems we are alike there. But I would put 45 sec in with a (rotary) time control knob though, maybe you want to reevaluate.
Or:
4. Learn how to use the power setting of the microwave to ensure even heating.
4. Learn how to use the power setting of the microwave to ensure even heating.
I think you misunderstand the mindset of microwave burrito eaters.
I microwave a burrito ’cus I want a burrito now.
Mouth be damned.
Mouth be damned.
I've found that a good happy medium is to put something in the microwave for half the recommended time, then move it to the oven for half the recommended oven time.
There are hybrid microwave/oven combos today that essentially do this. They run a low microwave function while also baking your food.
They’re commonly called “speed ovens”. I have one and it’s a nice thing to use for various things.
They’re commonly called “speed ovens”. I have one and it’s a nice thing to use for various things.
Good point.
Do you think I could get rid of my electric stove in my kitchen, then use that plug and buy a 4000W microwave to get it to heat up even faster instead?
Do you think I could get rid of my electric stove in my kitchen, then use that plug and buy a 4000W microwave to get it to heat up even faster instead?
It was life changing when I learned that if you set the stove correctly, it's almost impossible to make a bad pancake.
what? whether it's a great or only a good pancake is decided in the batter phase. bad pancakes come from whatever that flavor of instant cake mix is called, cake-plasticine.
No, you can definitely ruin perfectly good batter on a griddle that's too hot or too cold.
Yeah, if you've ever heard jokes about "the first pancake"[0] or burnt your pancakes when you get distracted by the rest of breakfast, do yourself a favor and set your griddle to 325F/160C.
Your pancakes can sit at 325F for a long time before they burn, and that alleviates the fear of burning that leads you to flip that first pancake too fast.
[0] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20First%...
Your pancakes can sit at 325F for a long time before they burn, and that alleviates the fear of burning that leads you to flip that first pancake too fast.
[0] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20First%...
It’s just like the first kid often comes out a little wonky, subsequent offspring are better.
I always make "test pancakes" until my griddle is just right, as I don't have a fancy temperature control. A drop of batter will behave just like a full-size pancake if you know what to watch for, a teaspoon if you don't.
I don't have a fancy temperature control, but I had just moved from gas stove to glass top electric* and and I got tired of waiting sooo long to hopefully get to a good cooking temp, only to ruin things by finding out the answer was no.
So a bought a hand-held laser-pointer-temperature gun at the hardware, wow, it's fantastic. Now I know what temps are for what (it's remarkably similar to the oven, 325 to 450) and I know how to find them and how quickly on my stove.
*what is with Miele appliances, they all suck, range, convection oven, microwave. the UIs are impossible.
So a bought a hand-held laser-pointer-temperature gun at the hardware, wow, it's fantastic. Now I know what temps are for what (it's remarkably similar to the oven, 325 to 450) and I know how to find them and how quickly on my stove.
*what is with Miele appliances, they all suck, range, convection oven, microwave. the UIs are impossible.
Great idea; I've used an electric hob my whole life and hate my glasstop electric for everything but cleaning it.
there is no first pancake problem if you only use your griddle for pancakes, that comes from having to use a pancake to get off whatever horrible things you've put on there in between uses. (and btw, your eggs will cook much easier if you dedicate an egg pan)
325's a good number but I prefer a 350 to 375 with a little urgency, it better gets that "deep fried crispy" around the outside, and stops the already flipped side from just getting steamed to death.
325's a good number but I prefer a 350 to 375 with a little urgency, it better gets that "deep fried crispy" around the outside, and stops the already flipped side from just getting steamed to death.
325 is great for plain pancakes, but around 360 works better for me if I load them with blueberries.
Also, if you've never tried a recipe with vinegar and baking soda you need to.
Also, if you've never tried a recipe with vinegar and baking soda you need to.
Ah yeah slow heat for longer trick. Like if I cook a steak in the oven for an hour at 250 then throw it on the grill people think I’ve become some master chef.
Once I figured out that cooking is mostly optimizing water while hitting the desired through-doneness and char points, my food markedly improved. Everything about low and slow makes a lot more sense then!
Adding water to pan for Bacon is a new hack. One guy did a bunch of experiments to see what worked and scientific reasons why.
https://youtu.be/PCW6dlBD-_g
https://youtu.be/PCW6dlBD-_g
I'll have to try. I've had pretty good luck with the Spruce oven method: https://www.thespruceeats.com/perfect-oven-cooked-bacon-how-...
Tl;dr - Put cold bacon in cold oven. Turn on oven to 400°F. Cook 17-20 min.
Tl;dr - Put cold bacon in cold oven. Turn on oven to 400°F. Cook 17-20 min.
whhaaat? i cook a steak for 1/2 hour in the oven on 200, and sear it in a pan (don't have a grill, am jelly) and sometimes risk over-cooking it?
with pancakes, while you don't want it tooo too hot, you do want a hot pan to sizzle fry some crispy edges on there. i like a little "crack" of the crust, not a steamy on the outside cake.
with pancakes, while you don't want it tooo too hot, you do want a hot pan to sizzle fry some crispy edges on there. i like a little "crack" of the crust, not a steamy on the outside cake.
And the clever novelty of biting off one or two tiny corners to allow that heat to escape to some degree.
Also if you thought you were clever and cut one in half to let it cool, then you would only find a sad shell of a pizza roll with all its guts leaking out into a congealed mess of cheese and pizza goo.
I still burn my mouth on hot pizza more than half the time I eat it! Because it is worth it.
Pizza rolls, Steak-umms, and Chef Boyardee pizzas were basically survival food in the 80s as many of us were left to fend for ourselves for days at a time during the school week.
Exactly. These were foods for US "latchkey kids" in the 1970s and 1980s, not "midcentury" (think Mad Men early 1960s) foods. During this time the rise of having two working parents (or because of rising divorce rates, a single working parent) combined with inflexibility of employers to allow "flex time" as they often do today, meant that many children often had to prepare their own meals. So simple frozen foods were common as even a grade school child could prepare them.
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70s was not latchkey kids. I was a kid then. We roamed the streets.
80s? I don't know, wasn't like that for me. I knew some kids maybe where it was like that for them, I felt sorry for them.
From my perspective, obviously a limited perspective based on the time I grew up, the 1970's was the best time to be a kid in the history of kids.
We roamed the streets, 10 years old, running wild in the streets.
80s? I don't know, wasn't like that for me. I knew some kids maybe where it was like that for them, I felt sorry for them.
From my perspective, obviously a limited perspective based on the time I grew up, the 1970's was the best time to be a kid in the history of kids.
We roamed the streets, 10 years old, running wild in the streets.
I think latchkey just means that kids were often home when a parent wasn't, or was sleeping.
So latchkey kids could also roam the streets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid
So latchkey kids could also roam the streets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid
And we did.
My mom worked a split-shift (3 hours in the morning, and 5 hours in evening Wed-Sun). My dad was in the army and was deployed to far-away lands for a significant portion of my life between 8-16 years old. My mom hired a couple of "minders" - but the first one made a baby in our bathroom with her boyfriend, and the second one did nothing but watch TV and sneak some shots of whiskey between TV shows (on the three networks then available).
Long story short, I was left to my own devices a lot. My mom tried to make dinner for me - but sometimes (being a growing boy) I was just really hungry - so chef-boy-r-dee pizza was a staple - at least until I learned that one could phone in an order for pizza and have it delivered! Now we were cash-poor, so when wanted spending money, I'd have to go house-to-house to ask if they needed their lawns mowed. I'd get somewhere between $5 or $10 depending on the lawn size and would use the money for pizza delivery once or twice a week.
Pretty amazing to think about it - a kid between 10-15 years old being left alone for hours a day and having to go house-to-house to mow lawns for extra money! (let's not forget it was the 70s so things like bike helmets, seat belts and non-smoking areas didn't exist either).
Ten dollars for a lawn?
$10 in 1970's dollars ~ $50 today's dollars. Nicest house on the block with a nice large corner lot.
Same here. But the meaning of a "latchkey" kid is a kid who has to unlock their door to get in their home (because nobody is there when they get home from school) -- this is independent of the concept of a "free range kid" (who may or may not have a parent at home but are just allowed to roam)
Latchkey didn't mean locked up at home, rather it meant the child was returning home alone after school and in possession of the home door key.
I was 10 in the 90’s, and it was the same. Maybe it’s regional.
I grew up in the 90s, and I've never heard of Chef Boyardee pizza. It sounds dire
You would be totally wrong.
My Mother's pizza is famous amongst my friends and family. It is started from the chef boyardee pizza kit and surprisingly little has changed in her version.
My brothers and our childhood friends are all in our 40's and 50's now, have had pizza all over the world, and momma pizza still ranks.
My Mother's pizza is famous amongst my friends and family. It is started from the chef boyardee pizza kit and surprisingly little has changed in her version.
My brothers and our childhood friends are all in our 40's and 50's now, have had pizza all over the world, and momma pizza still ranks.
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Wait until you find about Imos.
I was dragged there by some work colleagues in Kansas City.
They were super excited and insisted we go.
The conversation went like this "This pizza isn't really that good." "I know! That's the great thing about it!"
Imosholm syndrome is real.
They were super excited and insisted we go.
The conversation went like this "This pizza isn't really that good." "I know! That's the great thing about it!"
Imosholm syndrome is real.
didn't know there was an imos in KC. like 50% of the STL locations are bad the other half amazing. How was the kc version?
With imos you can't go in expecting anything, just enjoy it for what it is.
With imos you can't go in expecting anything, just enjoy it for what it is.
I think there was one. We drove halfway across town to get to it.
It was definitely "different."
It was definitely "different."
direly good... mmm you haven't experienced a burn till you've had that white cheese coat your mouth like wax perfectly... and deliciously.
Buddy the chef boyardee pizzas are a sham today. I _loved_ them.
Today they do not even include cheese in the box.
I wish they would sell the sauce with the mini pepperonis in a jar by itself.
Today they do not even include cheese in the box.
I wish they would sell the sauce with the mini pepperonis in a jar by itself.
What a scam. That cheese was critical. Agreed on the sauce and the mini pepperonis.
They aren't the same thing because they are quite a bit more costly, but a butcher somewhere in the region makes circular frozen sliced steaks for sandwiches. So much better than Steak-umms.
Similar to what you would get from a butcher for frozen philly cheese steak sandwiches, but not the same.
Similar to what you would get from a butcher for frozen philly cheese steak sandwiches, but not the same.
I had generic wheat flakes, and if I was lucky, 2% milk.
That is my latchkey experience as well.
Mustard sandwiches.
Now that’s austere. I usually at least had some bologna I could slap in there.
Why couldn't you just make some food?
There were usually never any other ingredients in the house and we'd never learned how to cook. YouTube wasn't a thing yet.
Before youtube was invented there were these things called "books".
Also, most things come with some sort of cooking instructions, like pasta or rice or whatever.
Is it unusual that my parents (and pretty much all my friend's parents) made sure we grew up knowing how to cook and eat really good food? Maybe it's a UK vs US thing, maybe it's because the nearest "convenience stores" were a couple of hundred miles away.
Also, most things come with some sort of cooking instructions, like pasta or rice or whatever.
Is it unusual that my parents (and pretty much all my friend's parents) made sure we grew up knowing how to cook and eat really good food? Maybe it's a UK vs US thing, maybe it's because the nearest "convenience stores" were a couple of hundred miles away.
People who cook were exposed to it.
People who like soccer were exposed to it.
People who like working on electronics were exposed to it.
Rarely does anyone do stuff independently. You saw someone else do it and that’s what got you into it. It has never mattered that libraries existed. Libraries are mostly for researching something that you’ve already taken an interest in. A library is literally massive.
If you and your parents emphasized cooking, then that’s good. But you know, a really rich family would expose their kid to everything while a poor one wouldn’t. And what you get exposed to determines your life’s path, so that’s how the cookie crumbles.
People who like soccer were exposed to it.
People who like working on electronics were exposed to it.
Rarely does anyone do stuff independently. You saw someone else do it and that’s what got you into it. It has never mattered that libraries existed. Libraries are mostly for researching something that you’ve already taken an interest in. A library is literally massive.
If you and your parents emphasized cooking, then that’s good. But you know, a really rich family would expose their kid to everything while a poor one wouldn’t. And what you get exposed to determines your life’s path, so that’s how the cookie crumbles.
There's also the point that as an early grade-school aged child, you haven't learned how to learn.
We look back and say "I'd just go find a book, read it, and then try some practice runs."
To an 8 year old, that sequence of events in response to not knowing something is completely alien.
We look back and say "I'd just go find a book, read it, and then try some practice runs."
To an 8 year old, that sequence of events in response to not knowing something is completely alien.
I don’t think most of us who identify as “latchkey” kids had a ton of parental guidance around the house. Often there wasn’t anyone around to teach us to cook anything outside of the relatively child-proof microwave.
My wife's kids love the toaster oven, because she taught them it was almost impossible to burn the house down with, so they felt safe.
Which is weird, because I never used one as a kid. Toaster, yes. Toaster-oven, no.
Which is weird, because I never used one as a kid. Toaster, yes. Toaster-oven, no.
Try reading a cookbook without knowing how to cook.
Wtf does medium heat mean? How about simmer?
They're great if you've got a basic understanding of cooking, but not for getting that basic understanding.
Wtf does medium heat mean? How about simmer?
They're great if you've got a basic understanding of cooking, but not for getting that basic understanding.
There's a glossary of terms in the back.
If you're functionally literate, you can figure it out in no time.
If you're functionally literate, you can figure it out in no time.
> a glossary of terms in the back
No classic cookbook describes how to listen for medium versus high heat.
No classic cookbook describes how to listen for medium versus high heat.
The stove I learned on had numbers from 1 to 10... so medium was 5... eg half way through. 1 was marked low, and 10 high. This deduction has worked just fine for me for the next 40 years of cooking. Is it wrong? who cares... it worked. The books always talked about high, medium and low. Not hard, I figured it out at 6 when I wanted to make an omlette and my mom gave me 2 cartons of eggs, cream, julia child and the trash can.
The trash can was actually the biggest part of the lesson, don't be afraid of failure.
The trash can was actually the biggest part of the lesson, don't be afraid of failure.
Here's the secret - you don't need to!
"Medium heat" is when the ring is half-way up. "High heat" is when the ring is all the way up.
I knew shit like this when I was nine years old, because I knew what words like "medium" and "high" and "heat" meant.
This whole thread is just reinforcing the impression I have that Americans are just permanent children, forever eating scaled-up versions of the children's menu.
"Medium heat" is when the ring is half-way up. "High heat" is when the ring is all the way up.
I knew shit like this when I was nine years old, because I knew what words like "medium" and "high" and "heat" meant.
This whole thread is just reinforcing the impression I have that Americans are just permanent children, forever eating scaled-up versions of the children's menu.
> "Medium heat" is when the ring is half-way up. "High heat" is when the ring is all the way up.
This is incorrect.
Medium is when the surface of the pan is around 350°F. High is when it's around 450°F. (Low is 250°F.)
How to get and then maintain the surface of the pan at that temperature is probably one of the trickiest skills there is for people to learn. Because obviously if you put an empty pan on the middle of your gas burner dial and just leave it there it will quickly heat up to ultra-hot (550°F+). While if you dump a bunch of watery vegetables in there to sauté it will just go down to like 150°F and not heat up further.
In the end setting the right burner strength to maintain your desired temperature is a crazy nonlinear function of heat, pan temperature, pan material (both conductivity and thermal mass), food quantity in pan, food temperature, food water content, and lid on/off. That you learn through just a lot of trial and error, involving a lot of listening for sizzle and seeing bubbles and browning and feeling for radiant heat with your hand. Not by setting the dial to a particular setting.
If you want to know why so many people have difficulty doing something so "basic" as frying an egg, this is why. If you want to know why part of the interview to cook in a restaurant is also quite often... just to fry a single egg... that's why. (It's "fizzbuzz" for cooks.)
Also, please don't do things like insult entire nationalities here. It's very much against HN guidelines.
This is incorrect.
Medium is when the surface of the pan is around 350°F. High is when it's around 450°F. (Low is 250°F.)
How to get and then maintain the surface of the pan at that temperature is probably one of the trickiest skills there is for people to learn. Because obviously if you put an empty pan on the middle of your gas burner dial and just leave it there it will quickly heat up to ultra-hot (550°F+). While if you dump a bunch of watery vegetables in there to sauté it will just go down to like 150°F and not heat up further.
In the end setting the right burner strength to maintain your desired temperature is a crazy nonlinear function of heat, pan temperature, pan material (both conductivity and thermal mass), food quantity in pan, food temperature, food water content, and lid on/off. That you learn through just a lot of trial and error, involving a lot of listening for sizzle and seeing bubbles and browning and feeling for radiant heat with your hand. Not by setting the dial to a particular setting.
If you want to know why so many people have difficulty doing something so "basic" as frying an egg, this is why. If you want to know why part of the interview to cook in a restaurant is also quite often... just to fry a single egg... that's why. (It's "fizzbuzz" for cooks.)
Also, please don't do things like insult entire nationalities here. It's very much against HN guidelines.
> ”Medium heat" is when the ring is half-way up. "High heat" is when the ring is all the way up.
This hasn’t been true anywhere I’ve lived, except my current house, where I adjusted the gas. In Cupertino, high barely summers. In New York, quarterway turned will sear and instantly burn dry powders. (Also: I grew up overseas.)
This hasn’t been true anywhere I’ve lived, except my current house, where I adjusted the gas. In Cupertino, high barely summers. In New York, quarterway turned will sear and instantly burn dry powders. (Also: I grew up overseas.)
Hah, "medium" - based on if the recipe ends up where it should - has been in a different place on the ring on pretty much every brand of stove I've ever had.
Sure you can hack around and get something ok regardless, but...
> maybe it's because the nearest "convenience stores" were a couple of hundred miles away
Gosh, what a wild idea that that would lead to a difference! Combine that with parents without enough free time to be home much in the first place, the rapid availability of processed food that lasts longer and is ready faster, and advertising campaigns that innundated people with these and didn't mention the downsides of the new shit... why are you being so smug about just happening to grow up in a different environment?
Sure you can hack around and get something ok regardless, but...
> maybe it's because the nearest "convenience stores" were a couple of hundred miles away
Gosh, what a wild idea that that would lead to a difference! Combine that with parents without enough free time to be home much in the first place, the rapid availability of processed food that lasts longer and is ready faster, and advertising campaigns that innundated people with these and didn't mention the downsides of the new shit... why are you being so smug about just happening to grow up in a different environment?
> "Medium heat" is when the ring is half-way up. "High heat" is when the ring is all the way up.
Gas or electric? Small or large burner? Cast iron or steel pan?
Kudos to you for being an exceptional nine year old cook, but it's objectively true that most cookbooks are written assuming basic cooking knowledge, the kind one would get from a parent who had time to cook with a child.
Gas or electric? Small or large burner? Cast iron or steel pan?
Kudos to you for being an exceptional nine year old cook, but it's objectively true that most cookbooks are written assuming basic cooking knowledge, the kind one would get from a parent who had time to cook with a child.
If someone had been there to tell my eleven year old self to just buy a cookbook, I suppose my problems would have been solved!
coming from uk "really good food" means heating the beans and browning your toast without burning it :)
Why do British hate food?
Some of the recipes remind me of the matpakke video. "But not too exciting or tasty!" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNmeVK_zLg
Some of the recipes remind me of the matpakke video. "But not too exciting or tasty!" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNmeVK_zLg
Well, we like food that tastes of food, and not just salt, sugar, and fat.
Americans are scared of flavour.
Americans are scared of flavour.
As a male American latch key kid in the 80s I learned to cook and made dinner for my parents and myself most nights. There was a ton of cooking shows on PBS to learn from. You can only watch so much Robotech/Voltron and play so many Commodore games. All of my friends made good food too.
Remember when "youtube" only came on that big glass thing in the corner and only had a few dozen things on it, and you had to wait for the right thing to come round?
Sure, I know you do...
Sure, I know you do...
You can be watching tv while the microwave is running though
In the US, girls learned how to cook, starting with Easy-Bake™ Ovens. Boys learning to cook? Sissy stuff. Boys learned to heat up pizza rolls and play CoD.
My dad was a 30 year army reserve veteran (served in both the Gulf War and Afghanistan) I would consider him to be a typical American "mans man" and definitely made a point about my brother and I learning how to cook, because its how you make a good impression on the in laws and girls you care about (his words, more or less).
I credit this with why I know how to cook as well as I do. We grew up poor by most standards in the US, but my uncle was a butcher, both grandparents were farmers, so the one thing we had access to was fruits, vegetables and good meats.
Its also why I think i never learned good portion control as a child and still have trouble maintaining a healthy weight (among other reasons I won't get into here), we made very good savory food all the time because its what we had. We had to cook, as take out wasn't an option, and frozen foods weren't cost effective the same way for us (due to familial professions, we had access to things most people don't in this way).
That's the irony. I feel like I grew up with blander foods I'd be less inclined to eat them so much growing up, feeding a long habit of food being comfort.
I credit this with why I know how to cook as well as I do. We grew up poor by most standards in the US, but my uncle was a butcher, both grandparents were farmers, so the one thing we had access to was fruits, vegetables and good meats.
Its also why I think i never learned good portion control as a child and still have trouble maintaining a healthy weight (among other reasons I won't get into here), we made very good savory food all the time because its what we had. We had to cook, as take out wasn't an option, and frozen foods weren't cost effective the same way for us (due to familial professions, we had access to things most people don't in this way).
That's the irony. I feel like I grew up with blander foods I'd be less inclined to eat them so much growing up, feeding a long habit of food being comfort.
My mate's grandad was an army cook. He told me that he was an excellent cook, made amazing meals, but never - after being demobbed - got his head around making not-army sized batches.
So my mate would go round to his grandparents and find his grandad stirring a pot of chilli and a pot of stew and a pot of curry each roughly the size of a dustbin, and be greeted with "Oh hello, young lad, I wish I'd known you were coming, I'd have made you some dinner!"
So my mate would go round to his grandparents and find his grandad stirring a pot of chilli and a pot of stew and a pot of curry each roughly the size of a dustbin, and be greeted with "Oh hello, young lad, I wish I'd known you were coming, I'd have made you some dinner!"
I got a lot of flak for wanting an Easy-Bake Oven as a boy. My mom was a habitual Burner of Things. Never could quite figure that out. I just wanted to make a brownie that wasn't rock hard crust, you know?
I received similar pushback for taking both Home Ec classes. It was really the only way out of the latchkey kid diet, which, yes, was primarily sandwiches, Steak-Umms, and so on.
I received similar pushback for taking both Home Ec classes. It was really the only way out of the latchkey kid diet, which, yes, was primarily sandwiches, Steak-Umms, and so on.
Oh yeah me too, I wanted to do Home Ec at school.
"But you'd be the only boy in the class, everyone else in the class is a girl!" was the general objection from the staff doing the timetables.
Yes. That is rather the point, isn't it?
Anyway I did Technical Drawing instead because either they couldn't see what the plan was, or they could see it all too well.
"But you'd be the only boy in the class, everyone else in the class is a girl!" was the general objection from the staff doing the timetables.
Yes. That is rather the point, isn't it?
Anyway I did Technical Drawing instead because either they couldn't see what the plan was, or they could see it all too well.
I ended up doing drafting as well as woodshop on top of it. It wasn't really a "reclaim my masculinity" thing so much as wanting to be well-rounded and trying things that I wasn't already good at.
When I had to do some photography on appointment and sometimes videography, well, nervous people can mess up their clothes. A number of women were surprised when I whipped out a needle and matching thread to briefly repair a tear in their clothing when time was tight.
I felt pretty annoyed at having to defend these kinds of choices, and a surprising amount of the pushback came not from boys my own age, but girls and women.
When I had to do some photography on appointment and sometimes videography, well, nervous people can mess up their clothes. A number of women were surprised when I whipped out a needle and matching thread to briefly repair a tear in their clothing when time was tight.
I felt pretty annoyed at having to defend these kinds of choices, and a surprising amount of the pushback came not from boys my own age, but girls and women.
Huh? I did my own laundry starting from like 10, and cooking the family dinners most nights (until I reached high school and football practice got in the way). Not sure what 'US' you are talking about, maybe the generation before the 80s?
> maybe the generation before the 80s?
Yeah, I overstated the reality for rhetorical effect, but it also would depend on what part of the US. Gender roles have changed in some places, but not so much in others.
> until I reached high school and football practice got in the way
That says a lot about US culture right there.
Yeah, I overstated the reality for rhetorical effect, but it also would depend on what part of the US. Gender roles have changed in some places, but not so much in others.
> until I reached high school and football practice got in the way
That says a lot about US culture right there.
Dude how are you going to get a girlfriend if you can't invite her over and make her dinner?
Girls can eat pizza rolls.
That's why nice sit-down restaurants with tables for two exist.
I was a latchkey kid at an age where I wouldn't have been allowed to use the stove or oven, let alone whip up a meal.
I could have made a salad, but not many 8 year olds would choose those over bagel bites.
I could have made a salad, but not many 8 year olds would choose those over bagel bites.
Too time consuming. With the microwave, you can have pizza rolls in 5 minutes. Less, if you don't mind the experience of alternating between still almost frozen and mouth-burning hot.
Lol, for my generation it was hot pockets.
That jingle will forever be seared into my brain. Well played, marketing.
Were they frozen pizzas or kits that you had to prepare?
Kits. That was the fun thing about it, you'd mix the dough, and add the cheese and sauce. If you were lucky, there were some leftover scraps in the fridge that you could use to add as toppings. Learned the basics of making pizza that way.
Speaking of mid-century food, I don't recall pizza rolls in my house growing up, but Pop-Tarts (toaster pastries) were a new thing that I had a goodly share of. Very handy to eat on a cold morning before going out to deliver newspapers door to door.
Pop tarts are also a bastardization of some other more traditional food but I don't know which right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-Tarts
Pop tarts are also a bastardization of some other more traditional food but I don't know which right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-Tarts
On a nostalgic whim I bought some Pop Tarts recently. The amount of filling and icing has dropped dramatically and they tasted awful as a result.
If you look at how they apply the icing you can clearly see how they started putting less and less on each pop tart. I don’t buy these things because I want to eat the crust!
If you look at how they apply the icing you can clearly see how they started putting less and less on each pop tart. I don’t buy these things because I want to eat the crust!
I had a similar experience a few years back.
Then, on a more recent whim, I bought some store branded toaster pastries from my local grocery store, and they were exactly the Pop Tarts I remembered.
Then, on a more recent whim, I bought some store branded toaster pastries from my local grocery store, and they were exactly the Pop Tarts I remembered.
I'm finding the same with other products too. There are a bunch of Aldi generic foods (like Mac & Cheese, tortillas, salsa, corn chips) that I like the taste of better than the more expensive name brand. Does this mean that the brand name has been reducing quality over time where the generics have been sticking more to their original recipe?
Genenerics often have better overheads because the company takes profit on more points of the production and supply chain.
They're also producing products in almost every aisle of the supermarket and gain an economy of scale on things like only needing a single one of eg house style for every product.
They're also producing products in almost every aisle of the supermarket and gain an economy of scale on things like only needing a single one of eg house style for every product.
It makes sense. When food brands initially took off (1950s?), my impression is that grocery stores were much more regional.
There certainly wasn't anything at the scale of Walmart, Aldi, Kroger, or Publix these days.
Consequently, it was easier for General Mills et al. to use economies of scale to sell quality, profitable products.
Now, it's the grocery stores that can do that.
There certainly wasn't anything at the scale of Walmart, Aldi, Kroger, or Publix these days.
Consequently, it was easier for General Mills et al. to use economies of scale to sell quality, profitable products.
Now, it's the grocery stores that can do that.
I think brands just fluctuate in quality as time goes on, they get used to being top dog and coast on brand recognition alone. Mac N Cheese in particular it pays to take the 5 extra minutes to mix your own cheese, but if you don't want to do that Cracker Barrel branded Mac N Cheese (the kind that you finish by toasting in the oven!) is pretty good stuff. And don't forget to add pepper, cayenne, and other spices to store bought stuff, it works wonders!
They used to really burn your mouth sometimes. Well that problem is solved because they are probably technically crackers now, there is so little filling.
Ahh, this reminds me of Toaster Strudel, of which I ate more as a child than I did Pop Tarts.
Maybe just another derivative of the turnover or pocket pie? Empanadas, pasties, calzones, bierocks/Runzas, samosas all fall into the turnover category. Alton Brown's Good Eats had at least one show on turnovers and some of the different ethnic variations.
I would guess from pie iron sandwiches more than from an oven baked pastry.
Well, it's a member of the fruit-filled tart family, I suppose, like the Norman Tart, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_tart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_tart
Hindbærsnitter? It's a danish dessert with raspberry filling and icing on top. It's very much a better pop tarts.
This was a nice focused read. I've never had pizza rolls and just checking, my local supermarkets don't have these either. They'll likely forever stay as a stereotype-point of US culture from a distance, much like the red party cups.
if you do cross paths with them, go for the pepperoni flavor. they are hands down the best one. and definitely don't cook them in a microwave, arrange on a circular pan in the shape of a smiley face in a not preheated oven at 420 for 12 minutes or you see one start to explode. if you don't have enough to make the full face, your doing it wrong.
Pretty unhealthy... check. Easy to overeat and long term screw up your body without intention, especially with kids who have no defenses... check. Pales dramatically in taste when compared with real food (TM), aka cheap junkfood category... check. Yes, confirming stereotypes.
I opened Pandora’s caloric box as a teenager when I learned that I could deep fry pizza rolls.
Fortunately they’ve changed the recipe lately, to make them better for air-fryers, and now I don’t feel the same urge to deep fry them.
Fortunately they’ve changed the recipe lately, to make them better for air-fryers, and now I don’t feel the same urge to deep fry them.
I now kinda want to buy a roll of pizza dough and just... make hi-end version of them
This article is an interesting complement to the “age of average” article that was trending here a few days ago. In the late 60s folks wanted to be a bit different, pushing against the conformity of the 50s. And they did that in part by… buying novel frozen food? Fast forward and this is essentially Trader Joe’s whole thing.
The rise in pizza popularity post WWII was a harbinger of cultural globalization that has now started to feel like homogenization.
I’m fascinated by the interplay between individuals, societies and consumerism. Be unique like everyone else!
Still that feels like a weak take. Where’s the line between lemmings and spreading best practices?
The rise in pizza popularity post WWII was a harbinger of cultural globalization that has now started to feel like homogenization.
I’m fascinated by the interplay between individuals, societies and consumerism. Be unique like everyone else!
Still that feels like a weak take. Where’s the line between lemmings and spreading best practices?
> In the late 60s folks wanted to be a bit different, pushing against the conformity of the 50s. And they did that in part by… buying novel frozen food?
Home refrigerators were still fairly new. A quick google indicates that "a refrigerator in the home" became a standard thing in the US in the 1940s. 1960s seems a bit slow (maybe the war got in the way?), but not every innovation is instant, and in this case the "innovation" is not the refrigerator itself, but the "frozen pizza rolls", second-order effects, the structuring of new products around the common availability of the home refrigerator. The platform precedes it, just like you don't have a mass-market app store before the iPhone.
Home refrigerators were still fairly new. A quick google indicates that "a refrigerator in the home" became a standard thing in the US in the 1940s. 1960s seems a bit slow (maybe the war got in the way?), but not every innovation is instant, and in this case the "innovation" is not the refrigerator itself, but the "frozen pizza rolls", second-order effects, the structuring of new products around the common availability of the home refrigerator. The platform precedes it, just like you don't have a mass-market app store before the iPhone.
> and in this case the "innovation" is not the refrigerator itself, but the "frozen pizza rolls", second-order effects, the structuring of new products around the common availability of the home refrigerator.
Are the pizza rolls structured around the availability of a freezer, or of a microwave?
Are the pizza rolls structured around the availability of a freezer, or of a microwave?
Before refrigerators people used iceboxes which accomplished much the same thing.
Pizza is an interesting thing. What they had in southern Italy before the war was very different and didn’t have tomato sauce, etc on it. It was a street food for peasants. There are accounts of Italian-American GIs working their way through Italy and surprised that the pizza they were used to back in America did not exist in Italy.
A lot of food we think of as being from a small place and then globalized is sort of marketing. A lot of stuff was created after WW2, associated with a country, and globalized.
Not to pick Italy but carbonara is an example of this. Invented by Italian Americans. The first accounts of it existing are in cook books published in America. Old Italians have no recollection of it pre-war.
But it was characterized as “authentic Italian” and it soon became the national dish of Rome, and modified to its current state today. Before recent times people were not killing enough pigs to make pork jowl universally accepted as the “authentic” protein in the dish.
A lot of food we think of as being from a small place and then globalized is sort of marketing. A lot of stuff was created after WW2, associated with a country, and globalized.
Not to pick Italy but carbonara is an example of this. Invented by Italian Americans. The first accounts of it existing are in cook books published in America. Old Italians have no recollection of it pre-war.
But it was characterized as “authentic Italian” and it soon became the national dish of Rome, and modified to its current state today. Before recent times people were not killing enough pigs to make pork jowl universally accepted as the “authentic” protein in the dish.
Something I find fascinating is how much "traditional" food in the old-world is influenced by post-Columbian discoveries.
Potatoes, Tomatoes, and Chili Peppers were unknown to Europe and Asia before exploration of the Americas.
Potatoes, Tomatoes, and Chili Peppers were unknown to Europe and Asia before exploration of the Americas.
Oh wow, this hits me hard. I legit have very fond memories of meticulously arranging pizza rolls on a plate to minimize gaps (pizza rolls packing problem), and eating them with a giant glass of Quik chocolate milk.
I then moved to Canada where Totino's does not exist and mourned my loss for years, because that specific type of "tiny calzone with egg roll container" didn't seem to exist up here. Only in the last few years have I seen an equivalent Canadian pizza roll from Pillsbury (Pizza Bites) and they happen to be decent. And if Canadians are reading and confused, I am not referring to those gross "pizza pops", they are not the same.
In response to the article, I'm shocked to learn Totino's didn't invent the idea and they existed all the way back in the 60s. At least from the 90s, I don't recall any other brands being available besides Totino's except Great Value?
I then moved to Canada where Totino's does not exist and mourned my loss for years, because that specific type of "tiny calzone with egg roll container" didn't seem to exist up here. Only in the last few years have I seen an equivalent Canadian pizza roll from Pillsbury (Pizza Bites) and they happen to be decent. And if Canadians are reading and confused, I am not referring to those gross "pizza pops", they are not the same.
In response to the article, I'm shocked to learn Totino's didn't invent the idea and they existed all the way back in the 60s. At least from the 90s, I don't recall any other brands being available besides Totino's except Great Value?
They seem similiar to meat pies, empanadas and other savoury pastries, except too small to be convenient.
The small size makes them easier and quicker to cook (less likely to burn the outside and leave a frozen center).
As they're pretty strictly meant to be eaten at home the need for a plate of them isn't a big deal.
As they're pretty strictly meant to be eaten at home the need for a plate of them isn't a big deal.
They have a big brother called a hot pocket that’s like a nasty meat pie. Both will get nuclear meltdown hot and will burn your mouth.
Bonus, if you microwave them, you end up with parts of the crust that are still tooth-breakingly frozen.
They're more convenient to share with a group, and eat with one hand.
And easier for little kids to eat.
And easier for little kids to eat.
You’re supposed to gobble down a large bowl of them, like jellybeans.
, burning your mouth on the first few in your haste.
I'm part of the Totino's lifestyle, I'll admit it
Interesting article but please stop disabling default behavior like mobile pinch to zoom! One of the image captions says "if you squint you can make out the list of flavors"... squint is too accurate when I can't zoom in.
I'm in the UK, never had a pizza roll, still not entirely clear on what one is, but when i was a teenager i did eat a lot of McCain pizza-rollas, which were a sort of soft bread roll filled with pizza topping which you warmed up in the microwave. They were pretty good, probably packed with E-numbers, and a welcome addition at a time before my dad had learned how to cook.
Seen here as part of the broader family of snack-rollas, which had other fillings that weren't as good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBW1HQmxgIo
They stopped making them decades ago.
Seen here as part of the broader family of snack-rollas, which had other fillings that weren't as good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBW1HQmxgIo
They stopped making them decades ago.
Pizza rolls are like a fried dumpling with pizza filling (meat, sauce, cheese) on the inside. Better if you bake in oven, but almost everyone will microwave. As sad as that turns out, they’re actually very good in a high artificial kind of way. I’m surprised they didn’t make it to the UK; it has UK written all over it.
I think my kids, if left to their own devices, would survive on a diet of cup-o-noodles, air-fryer cooked pizza rolls, pop-tarts and wash it down with Monster. This also reminds me of the diet of many junior developers.
Great read, love the story of entrepreneurship meets American culinary cross overs. Are there other examples of this phenomenon around the world, where street food is commoditized and makes literal billionaires?
I think you’ll find hundreds of examples all around the word, it’s a common story in Japan, Brazil, Europe, India, probably every country has at least one.
What sets the US examples apart is the “entrepreneurial” aspect of creating an entirely made-up food category, resulting from the availability of industrial machinery and marketing trends. There is little connection to to street food or concerns about authenticity.
What sets the US examples apart is the “entrepreneurial” aspect of creating an entirely made-up food category, resulting from the availability of industrial machinery and marketing trends. There is little connection to to street food or concerns about authenticity.
I never knew pizza rolls had such history. I assumed they were just an obscure and unremarkable snack before their breakout role in Mr. Plinkett's Star Wars prequel reviews.
Pizza rolls were my introduction to Ranch addiction.
Cold ranch dressing from the fridge was the solution to the boiling lava hot pizza roll problem apart from biting the corners to let the steam out.
Most microwaves have "sensor" modes these days though and you don't need to suffer that experience anymore if you're willing to wait a couple more minutes.
Most microwaves have "sensor" modes these days though and you don't need to suffer that experience anymore if you're willing to wait a couple more minutes.
How do you use sensor modes to cook pizza rolls?
There's a pizza mode. It works. I dunno it's basically magic. Also sensor modes on microwaves tend to work better when the food isn't frozen.
To quickly defrost I will usually stick a bag of pizza rolls in some hot water in the kitchen sink for a minute and if I want them crispy I will finish them in a toaster oven or air fryer.
Anyway my point was just that as an adult capable of basic food prep it seems silly I ever burned my mouth on pizza rolls even though the microwaves were dumber back then.
To quickly defrost I will usually stick a bag of pizza rolls in some hot water in the kitchen sink for a minute and if I want them crispy I will finish them in a toaster oven or air fryer.
Anyway my point was just that as an adult capable of basic food prep it seems silly I ever burned my mouth on pizza rolls even though the microwaves were dumber back then.
Made me think of pizza pockets, which are little calzones maybe 6x the size of pizza pops, and only available in Canada. I think they are better than pizza pockets, pizza pops and bagel bites.
I really messed this comment up: I was thinking of pizza pops, which are little calzones maybe 6x the size of pizza rolls, and only available in Canada. I think they are better than pizza pockets, pizza rolls and bagel bites.
It took me until a couple years ago to notice Chef "Boy-ar-dee" was a phonetization of an Italian surname like "Boiardi"
Wow, "pizza roll" refers to something very different here in Australia (a bread roll with cheese and bacon on top).
Oh lord, there's no such thing as a "self-made man" or "pulling oneself up by their bootstraps". It takes one or more rich investors or already having money, customers, employees, partners, vendors, and distributors taking chances on them. To deny this is to give oxygen to the mythologies of hyperindividualism is "good" and success is "achievable" in a vacuum of solitude. It's a lie that denies the credit to those who assisted in the amassing of wealth.
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/pul...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger
https://ideas.time.com/2012/09/07/the-myth-of-bootstrapping/
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/3/29/alissa_quart_bootstra...
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/pul...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger
https://ideas.time.com/2012/09/07/the-myth-of-bootstrapping/
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/3/29/alissa_quart_bootstra...
I mean it sounds like this guy kind of is? People do actually win the lottery.
That's a dumb argument with survivor's bias. The lottery is external to them and present vanishingly-small winnings to people at random without affirmative agency.
People who participate in lotteries are statistically poorer.
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/research-review-lo...
https://themillionairenextdoor.com/2011/09/any-economically-...
People who participate in lotteries are statistically poorer.
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/research-review-lo...
https://themillionairenextdoor.com/2011/09/any-economically-...
Are you an AI who can’t understand metaphors?
That's rude and unhelpful.
Read the linked material. The metaphor of bootstraps was an impossible and Quixotic feat like perpetual motion that became coopted as a celebrated mythology of "self-made". There is no such animal, friend.
Read the linked material. The metaphor of bootstraps was an impossible and Quixotic feat like perpetual motion that became coopted as a celebrated mythology of "self-made". There is no such animal, friend.
It was in the 50's, not now. The world looked a bit fucking different than now.
Beatrice is my aunt! (And the inventor of said egg roll machine, Eugene Luoma, is my uncle. He also invented the zip-it drain cleaner and all sorts of other clever things.)
Beatrice kind of hates talking about Pizza Rolls. She'd rather be known for her many cookbooks and other culinary work, not that trash. Jeno merely paid her an hourly wage to come up with different egg roll fillings and pizza was one of the ones she tried. No royalties or anything.
I love pizza rolls, though.